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#5301 aditya-now

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:01

That was awesome! On board with the Schu round Spa in mixed conditions. What a great track. :up: I think the video also clearly shows this:

1. Rosberg falls completely off the road and Michael goes by giving him plenty of space, but Niko cuts back across the track and hits him.

2. Near the end the two are running side by side and Niko effectively punts Michael off the road, leaving not a foot of space for Michael's car.

In both cases, remarkably hard driving against one's team mate I would think.


As said above, tit-for-that. Whether Nico perceived that Michael gave him plenty of space in the first incident is questionable, usually drivers are egoists and find fault with the other one first of all. Despite that, none of the two complained about the other, so good marks for that! :up:


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#5302 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:16

Nico 'spanked' Michael because his car was set up for wet conditions and thereby more suited to the track conditions at the time. No spanking going on. Just an advantaged driver getting the benefit over the lesser advantaged driver.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 07 September 2010 - 10:17.


#5303 baddog

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:27

You make me smile, arknor. How do you think Michael gained Nico´s place in the first place if not by Petrov blocking Nico.


que? run that by me again? rosberg was off the road due to his error and that is why he got passed so easily. (or would have if he had not run into the back of his teammates car)

#5304 aditya-now

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:33

que? run that by me again? rosberg was off the road due to his error and that is why he got passed so easily. (or would have if he had not run into the back of his teammates car)


You are right, baddog, had it been Michael, he would not have been run off the road by Petrov (or in your language, would not have made an error like Rosberg). In Schumacher´s case the two might have touched or Michael may have run Petrov off the road. Anyway, Petrov took both Mercedes drivers, the Russian is showing guts.


#5305 aditya-now

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:37

Nico 'spanked' Michael because his car was set up for wet conditions and thereby more suited to the track conditions at the time. No spanking going on. Just an advantaged driver getting the benefit over the lesser advantaged driver.



Good judgement by Rosberg then to set up his car for wet conditions. Secondly, good showing by Rosberg to still finish ahead of Michael in largely dry conditions.
So probably Rosberg is the strongest teammate that Michael ever had to face.

#5306 baddog

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:44

You are right, baddog, had it been Michael, he would not have been run off the road by Petrov (or in your language, would not have made an error like Rosberg). In Schumacher´s case the two might have touched or Michael may have run Petrov off the road. Anyway, Petrov took both Mercedes drivers, the Russian is showing guts.

transparent much? rosberg (who simply made a mistake) 'run off' by petrov but schumacher (who was actually punted off by rosberg) is 'spanked'

#5307 Diablobb81

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:48

Lol Petrov destroyed MSC winglet too.

Bah, how much we miss in live transmissions.

#5308 baddog

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:48

Good judgement by Rosberg then to set up his car for wet conditions. Secondly, good showing by Rosberg to still finish ahead of Michael in largely dry conditions.
So probably Rosberg is the strongest teammate that Michael ever had to face.

Overall Rosbergs judgement looks less good when you look at the result in the whole field. 14th to 6th is good, but he should probably have beaten sutil, and 21st to 7th is factually more impressive.

You should also take into account that Rosberg is mathematically in the championship.

#5309 arknor

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:49

As said above, tit-for-that. Whether Nico perceived that Michael gave him plenty of space in the first incident is questionable, usually drivers are egoists and find fault with the other one first of all. Despite that, none of the two complained about the other, so good marks for that! :up:

wether nico percieves michael giving him enough space is irellevant.

the person rejoining the track is always at fault they are suposed to make sure the track is clear and rejoining the track wont cause an accident.

ill forgive rosberg because he isnt really that experienced and in the heat of the moment im sure his first though was rushing back onto the track as fast as posible

#5310 TURU

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:56

wether nico percieves michael giving him enough space is irellevant.

the person rejoining the track is always at fault they are suposed to make sure the track is clear and rejoining the track wont cause an accident.

ill forgive rosberg because he isnt really that experienced and in the heat of the moment im sure his first though was rushing back onto the track as fast as posible

:rotfl:

So you basically say that he should have let Michael pass ?? What would you say if Michael was outside the track, not Rosberg? I suppose you would say something else.

Edited by TURU, 07 September 2010 - 11:03.


#5311 Diablobb81

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:58

:rotfl:

So you basically say that he should have let Michael pass ?? What would say if Michael was outside the track, not Rosberg? I suppose you would say something else.


Michael already passed him. He had no chance to prevent it. He just should have been careful rejoining.

#5312 arknor

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:24

:rotfl:

So you basically say that he should have let Michael pass ?? What would you say if Michael was outside the track, not Rosberg? I suppose you would say something else.

i dont care who it is when rejoining the track any accident is the fault of the person rejoining and any fia steward will tell you the same thing

#5313 chrisblades85

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:25

wether nico percieves michael giving him enough space is irellevant.

the person rejoining the track is always at fault they are suposed to make sure the track is clear and rejoining the track wont cause an accident.

ill forgive rosberg because he isnt really that experienced and in the heat of the moment im sure his first though was rushing back onto the track as fast as posible



How long do you have to be in F1 before your experience? In fact motor sport in general?

#5314 TURU

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:33

i dont care who it is when rejoining the track any accident is the fault of the person rejoining and any fia steward will tell you the same thing


Okay, I believe you, so I will wait for Schumacher to do the same thing :p

#5315 arknor

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:37

Okay, I believe you, so I will wait for Schumacher to do the same thing :p

wait for him to for all i care i dont defend anyone who is in the wrong im not a fanboy schumacher is my favorite driver it doesnt mean i will defend him when he makes a mistake

#5316 baddog

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:42

How long do you have to be in F1 before your experience? In fact motor sport in general?

Indeed, Rosberg is now a quite experienced F1 driver. One in fact has to wonder what HE thought he was doing there, it must surely have been a mistake, he wouldnt have endplated his teammates rear tyre on purpose.

#5317 arknor

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:49

Indeed, Rosberg is now a quite experienced F1 driver. One in fact has to wonder what HE thought he was doing there, it must surely have been a mistake, he wouldnt have endplated his teammates rear tyre on purpose.

he might be considered an experience driver but he doesnt have the experience of beeing at the front end of the grid so hes still in a learning phase as far as im concerned so ill cut him some slack, vettel is also suposed to be "experienced" yet hes making some awful mistakes at the front end of the field when the pressure is on.

rsobergs had some small errors but hes probably still adjusting to the pressure he has handled having schumacher as a team mate remarkably well but this is a schumacher thread and we have wandered very far off topic imo.

#5318 Gareth

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 12:06

:rotfl:

So you basically say that he should have let Michael pass ?? What would you say if Michael was outside the track, not Rosberg? I suppose you would say something else.

Where someone hits their front wing end plate against the rear tyre of another driver in a corner, it is almost always the car behind's fault. The car in front is sufficiently far in front to have a right to the racing line so it's the car behind's job to get out of the way.

Add in the fact that the car behind is returning to the track and you have pretty much the biggest slam dunk of "that guy was at fault" that you can have IMO.

#5319 Fortymark

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 12:19

Schumacher hit Petrovs car in la source, another contact for MS there..
Thanks for the onboard btw ivand911!

I noticed how tough Sakon Yamamoto was, he didn´t back off and
MS had to lift and back off.

Baddog was impressed with MS, going from 21:st to 7:th. But what about Petrov
then, he started 23:rd and passed MS on track (and NR) and outraced them.
Unfortunately for him his strategy wasn´t so good, he made an extra pitstop
compaired to the others.

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#5320 ivand911

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 12:25

Petrov was with the softs at the start, where MGP drivers was with hards. In the end this strategy help them to finish ahead of him. Softs help Petrov at the start and to be faster than both MGP drivers. And his car is just better.

Edited by ivand911, 07 September 2010 - 12:26.


#5321 ivand911

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 13:18

Michael this Sunday on karting track.
http://photofile.ru/...3/139594394.jpg
http://photofile.ru/...3/139594386.jpg
http://photofile.ru/...3/139594397.jpg
http://photofile.ru/...3/139594395.jpg
Here he try some new racing suits: :rotfl:
http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded


#5322 Lifew12

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 13:21

ill forgive rosberg because he isnt really that experienced


This is his fourth season. He must have driver 60 F1 races. Plus all those before. he's experienced.


#5323 Jazza

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 13:48

Nico 'spanked' Michael because his car was set up for wet conditions and thereby more suited to the track conditions at the time. No spanking going on. Just an advantaged driver getting the benefit over the lesser advantaged driver.


Yes, and exactly how many times did MS dominate in the wet by changing to his setup for wet spare car minutes before the race?

MS got the reputation of being the rain master often in a car setup exactly for the conditions while his rivals spun around in a car setup for the dry. If we are going to start taking setups into the equation then I guess races like Monaco 97 really wasn't that impressive. After all it was just an advantaged driver getting the benefit over the lesser advantaged driver...

#5324 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 14:25

Yes, and exactly how many times did MS dominate in the wet by changing to his setup for wet spare car minutes before the race?

MS got the reputation of being the rain master often in a car setup exactly for the conditions while his rivals spun around in a car setup for the dry. If we are going to start taking setups into the equation then I guess races like Monaco 97 really wasn't that impressive. After all it was just an advantaged driver getting the benefit over the lesser advantaged driver...



Look man, I'm being a realist here. We're talking about Spa here, not the past or Schumacher's previous 'rain master' tag.

Rosberg was able to do better than Schumacher in the WET conditions towards the end because his car was BETTER set up for THOSE conditions. It's very straight forward and logical and really not that difficult to 'get'.

Just like Sutil managed to breeze past Schumacher and many others in the first sector - because his car was more EFFECIENT than those he had passed. It doesn't make anyone a bad driver. It's the law of physics and sometimes you can't change those.

#5325 FW09

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 14:29

Truth from a quality newspaper:

http://www.newsofthe...-the-sport.html



#5326 Jazza

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 14:41

Look man, I'm being a realist here. We're talking about Spa here, not the past or Schumacher's previous 'rain master' tag.

Rosberg was able to do better than Schumacher in the WET conditions towards the end because his car was BETTER set up for THOSE conditions. It's very straight forward and logical and really not that difficult to 'get'.

Just like Sutil managed to breeze past Schumacher and many others in the first sector - because his car was more EFFECIENT than those he had passed. It doesn't make anyone a bad driver. It's the law of physics and sometimes you can't change those.


I agree with that 100% :up:




#5327 Gareth

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 15:28

Truth from a quality newspaper:

http://www.newsofthe...-the-sport.html

:lol: "if [my speed] is the same as at my high periods in Ferrari I don't think we will ever know" = "I admit my speed is lower than when I was in Ferrari". Only in NOTW land.


#5328 Fortymark

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 15:36

They made a story out of Coulthards interview..?

#5329 arknor

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 15:37

Truth from a quality newspaper:

http://www.newsofthe...-the-sport.html

quality newspaper :rotfl: its as bad as the dailymail.... just look at all the quality "news" on the front page http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/ its turned into a magazine for women :lol:

#5330 scarletf12002

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 16:18

Truth from a quality newspaper:

http://www.newsofthe...-the-sport.html



are u being sarcastic?

#5331 TURU

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 05:29

They made a story out of Coulthards interview..?


Yes, they did.

#5332 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:56

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/27557.html

Stirling Moss: Michael Schumacher should have been banned for a year.

#5333 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:56

Most English newspapers are part of the gutter press.

#5334 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:58

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/27557.html

Stirling Moss: Michael Schumacher should have been banned for a year.


I find it difficult to talk seriously the opinion of a man who walked into - and then fell down - and empty elevator shaft.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 08 September 2010 - 09:00.


#5335 ivand911

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:03

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/27557.html

Stirling Moss: Michael Schumacher should have been banned for a year.

I don't know, to cry here or to laugh? :rotfl:


#5336 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:08

Of course let's ignore that he is criticising the last 20 years or so and that he gives MSC just as an example.

Hint for aditya : if it would have been like Moss suggested we would have at least 4-5 drivers banned this year alone (Lewis, Vettel, Webber etc.)

Edited by Diablobb81, 08 September 2010 - 09:13.


#5337 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:36

I find it difficult to talk seriously the opinion of a man who walked into - and then fell down - and empty elevator shaft.


:lol:

If you imagine the scene visually it could make you laugh.

Yet, awkward things might have happened to you as well, Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, things that have not shown you in the best light. Still, we take your opinion serious and don´t discredit you for it.

What Schumacher did to Barrichello in Hungaroring has nothing to do with Sir Stirling falling into an empty elevator shaft, one does not excuse the other. Michael put at least one other person in danger (potentially many more), whereas Sir Stirling put only himself in danger. Also, Michael is half the age of Moss.

The only thing similar is that you could call both incidents due to misjudgement.

#5338 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:42

:lol:

If you imagine the scene visually it could make you laugh.

Yet, awkward things might have happened to you as well, Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, things that have not shown you in the best light. Still, we take your opinion serious and don´t discredit you for it.

What Schumacher did to Barrichello in Hungaroring has nothing to do with Sir Stirling falling into an empty elevator shaft, one does not excuse the other. Michael put at least one other person in danger (potentially many more), whereas Sir Stirling put only himself in danger. Also, Michael is half the age of Moss.

The only thing similar is that you could call both incidents due to misjudgement.


I know what you mean, Aditya but when Moss speaks on these matters - particular in light of his recent 'excursions' - one can't help but picture the scene of him falling down and then trying to take him seriously.

I'm not assassinating his character, just poking fun at the old boy. It's all in jest, really.

BTW: His points are very valid, but IMO the whole Schumacher-Barichello thing has been blown massively out of proportion. If one was to study the psychology behind it - rather than merely at face value - Barrichello was culpable too in my opinion.

#5339 Boing 2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:42

Look man, I'm being a realist here. We're talking about Spa here, not the past or Schumacher's previous 'rain master' tag.

Rosberg was able to do better than Schumacher in the WET conditions towards the end because his car was BETTER set up for THOSE conditions. It's very straight forward and logical and really not that difficult to 'get'.

Just like Sutil managed to breeze past Schumacher and many others in the first sector - because his car was more EFFECIENT than those he had passed. It doesn't make anyone a bad driver. It's the law of physics and sometimes you can't change those.


i seem to recall estoril 96 only schumacher and herbert had full wet set ups, the rest of the grid was intermediate, didn't stop that drive becoming part of the legend.

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#5340 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:42

Of course let's ignore that he is criticising the last 20 years or so and that he gives MSC just as an example.

Hint for aditya : if it would have been like Moss suggested we would have at least 4-5 drivers banned this year alone (Lewis, Vettel, Webber etc.)


I think that Sir Stirling criticising for the last 20 years is understandable in the light of the fact that they lost one driver every second race weekend in Moss´ day. To him, it must mean terrible disrespect to the human life what has been going on at the race tracks for the past 20 years.

1991 - 2010, the last 20 years.

What does it remind me of? Ah, that´s exactly the span of time that Schumacher is in the sport and he has a collection of incidents like no other driver.
So I would not ignore it, and MSC is not "just an example" but indeed THE example.

Hint for Diablobb81: if it would have been like Moss suggested we would not have seen Michael driving for most years of his career.

Edited by aditya-now, 08 September 2010 - 09:45.


#5341 Boing 2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:43

I know what you mean, Aditya but when Moss speaks on these matters - particular in light of his recent 'excursions' - one can't help but picture the scene of him falling down and then trying to take him seriously.

I'm not assassinating his character, just poking fun at the old boy. It's all in jest, really.

BTW: His points are very valid, but IMO the whole Schumacher-Barichello thing has been blown massively out of proportion. If one was to study the psychology behind it - rather than merely at face value - Barrichello was culpable too in my opinion.



at least moss's stupidity was accidental......


#5342 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:46

I think that Sir Stirling criticising for the last 20 years is understandable in the light of the fact that they lost one driver every second race weekend in Moss´ day. To him, it must mean terrible disrespect to the human life what is going on at the race tracks for the past 20 years.

1991 - 2010, the last 20 years.

What does it remind me of? Ah, that´s exactly the span of time that Schumacher is in the sport an he has a collection of incidents like no other driver.
So I would not ignore it, and MSC is not "just an example" but indeed THE example.

Hint for Diablobb81: if it would have been like Moss suggested we would not have seen Michael driving for most years of his career.



BS. Even Moss gives Senna's move as the first example of this era.

Maybe if this moves wouldn't have been allowed Michael wouldn't have made them. So he would have driven but with less questionable moves. But that can be said of most drivers of the new era. We have seen enough fights this year that wouldn't be allowed under Moss' vision of F1.

Edited by Diablobb81, 08 September 2010 - 09:48.


#5343 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:46

at least moss's stupidity was accidental......


Boo hoo that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you. Posted Image


This is my post on the matter:


Look, I'm not defending Schumacher here, I know when he is wrong and when he is fair. Yestersay, he was anything but fair.

However, a degree of culpability must also lay at Ruben' door. He, himself, chose to keep his foot in it and go on the inside despite seeing that Schumacher was squeezing him.

It was upmanship on Rubens' part and he himself admitted more or less that because it was Schumacher he had to go for it and that it was 'beautiful'. Let's not make Rubens' out to be a saint here, he knew the consequences but choose to stick to the inside (a) because it was psychologically gratifying for him (b) because it was Schumacher, c) there was pride at stake and lastly (d) there was a point to be had.

The last thing on Rubens' mind was getting that final point. He wanted to take it to Schumacher as an act of psychological gratification for what happened during those Ferrari years.

That's my opinion anyway.



#5344 Boing 2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:49

Boo hoo that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you. Posted Image


This is my post on the matter:



repeating it doesn't make it any less idiotic.


#5345 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:49

i seem to recall estoril 96 only schumacher and herbert had full wet set ups, the rest of the grid was intermediate, didn't stop that drive becoming part of the legend.


There seems to be always two standards of measuring in this thread:

One standard for Schumacher - "his race was legendary" (conveniently not looking at the fact that he was one of the few who had a wet set-up).

the other standard for e.g. Rosberg: - "he was only driving well because he had a wet set-up, unlike most others".

Of course, you can´t compare Estoril 96 with Spa 2010, and Michael did indeed drive races that are stuff of legend. Yet you can´t have it two ways, can you?

#5346 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:52

repeating it doesn't make it any less idiotic.


Fragile aren't we?

You're saying that Barrichello is ENTIRELY innocent and blameless? There was no agenda involved on his part? Barrichello was wound up and it was upmanship and vindication on his part for the ass-whooping he got from Michael for 6 years.

If he hadn't come within inches of the wall, I bet he would have blown his load in the car immediately afterwards. :rotfl:

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 08 September 2010 - 10:02.


#5347 Gareth

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:57

Yet you can´t have it two ways, can you?

I can see why in the 90s, with race set ups decided on the day, you would credit a driver more with correctly choosing a wet race set-up than you would now, with race setups decided the day before.

Now it is almost 100% lottery whereas then there was some element of skill in making the right call.

#5348 BRK

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:02

Lol,looks like some of you obsessed haters are still at it. Years and years down the drain and yet we never give up,good to see Michael will always be in your thoughts,no matter what. :lol:

On Rubens: old guy,I think he had a pretty embarrassing time at Spa,enjoying all the attention at the party and then making a fool of himself at the race. Whatever,I'm sure he's learnt his lesson. Just let him be,he'll be gone by next year.

#5349 Boing 2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:06

Fragile aren't we?

You're saying that Barrichello is ENTIRELY innocent and blameless? There was no agenda involved on his part? Barrichello was wound up and it was upmanship and vindication on his part for the ass-whooping he got from Michael for 6 years.

If he hadn't come within inches of the wall, I bet he would have blown his load in the car immediately afterwards. :rotfl:



there are FOURTY pages of this cack in the dedicated thread, you really think that didn't cover it well enough?

#5350 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:20

I can see why in the 90s, with race set ups decided on the day, you would credit a driver more with correctly choosing a wet race set-up than you would now, with race setups decided the day before.

Now it is almost 100% lottery whereas then there was some element of skill in making the right call.


That´s true, still that does not discredit the good result of a driver in the 2010s, whether he accidentally has chosen the right set-up or he really felt that would be the way to go (can you judge the decision process of a driver from a distance, Garth?).

What I was getting at was not the fact that now it is more a lottery to get the right set-up, but the way of discrediting the achievement of a driver with the right set-up (it can also go wrong with even the right set-up, remember Alonso). Also, other drivers are free as well to chose e.g. wet set-up.

If you go down that lane you end up excusing the two victories of Button this year by saying: "he just was lucky to make the right calls". Well, that´s one part of the equation only, second part is you have to make it stick as well.

From what I have seen in 2010 Rosberg was better than Schumacher more often than not both in making the right calls and in making it stick.