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#5351 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:56

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/27557.html

Stirling Moss: Michael Schumacher should have been banned for a year.

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#5352 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:56

Most English newspapers are part of the gutter press.

#5353 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:58

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/27557.html

Stirling Moss: Michael Schumacher should have been banned for a year.


I find it difficult to talk seriously the opinion of a man who walked into - and then fell down - and empty elevator shaft.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 08 September 2010 - 09:00.


#5354 ivand911

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:03

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/27557.html

Stirling Moss: Michael Schumacher should have been banned for a year.

I don't know, to cry here or to laugh? :rotfl:


#5355 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:08

Of course let's ignore that he is criticising the last 20 years or so and that he gives MSC just as an example.

Hint for aditya : if it would have been like Moss suggested we would have at least 4-5 drivers banned this year alone (Lewis, Vettel, Webber etc.)

Edited by Diablobb81, 08 September 2010 - 09:13.


#5356 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:36

I find it difficult to talk seriously the opinion of a man who walked into - and then fell down - and empty elevator shaft.


:lol:

If you imagine the scene visually it could make you laugh.

Yet, awkward things might have happened to you as well, Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, things that have not shown you in the best light. Still, we take your opinion serious and don´t discredit you for it.

What Schumacher did to Barrichello in Hungaroring has nothing to do with Sir Stirling falling into an empty elevator shaft, one does not excuse the other. Michael put at least one other person in danger (potentially many more), whereas Sir Stirling put only himself in danger. Also, Michael is half the age of Moss.

The only thing similar is that you could call both incidents due to misjudgement.

#5357 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:42

:lol:

If you imagine the scene visually it could make you laugh.

Yet, awkward things might have happened to you as well, Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, things that have not shown you in the best light. Still, we take your opinion serious and don´t discredit you for it.

What Schumacher did to Barrichello in Hungaroring has nothing to do with Sir Stirling falling into an empty elevator shaft, one does not excuse the other. Michael put at least one other person in danger (potentially many more), whereas Sir Stirling put only himself in danger. Also, Michael is half the age of Moss.

The only thing similar is that you could call both incidents due to misjudgement.


I know what you mean, Aditya but when Moss speaks on these matters - particular in light of his recent 'excursions' - one can't help but picture the scene of him falling down and then trying to take him seriously.

I'm not assassinating his character, just poking fun at the old boy. It's all in jest, really.

BTW: His points are very valid, but IMO the whole Schumacher-Barichello thing has been blown massively out of proportion. If one was to study the psychology behind it - rather than merely at face value - Barrichello was culpable too in my opinion.

#5358 Boing 2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:42

Look man, I'm being a realist here. We're talking about Spa here, not the past or Schumacher's previous 'rain master' tag.

Rosberg was able to do better than Schumacher in the WET conditions towards the end because his car was BETTER set up for THOSE conditions. It's very straight forward and logical and really not that difficult to 'get'.

Just like Sutil managed to breeze past Schumacher and many others in the first sector - because his car was more EFFECIENT than those he had passed. It doesn't make anyone a bad driver. It's the law of physics and sometimes you can't change those.


i seem to recall estoril 96 only schumacher and herbert had full wet set ups, the rest of the grid was intermediate, didn't stop that drive becoming part of the legend.

#5359 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:42

Of course let's ignore that he is criticising the last 20 years or so and that he gives MSC just as an example.

Hint for aditya : if it would have been like Moss suggested we would have at least 4-5 drivers banned this year alone (Lewis, Vettel, Webber etc.)


I think that Sir Stirling criticising for the last 20 years is understandable in the light of the fact that they lost one driver every second race weekend in Moss´ day. To him, it must mean terrible disrespect to the human life what has been going on at the race tracks for the past 20 years.

1991 - 2010, the last 20 years.

What does it remind me of? Ah, that´s exactly the span of time that Schumacher is in the sport and he has a collection of incidents like no other driver.
So I would not ignore it, and MSC is not "just an example" but indeed THE example.

Hint for Diablobb81: if it would have been like Moss suggested we would not have seen Michael driving for most years of his career.

Edited by aditya-now, 08 September 2010 - 09:45.


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#5360 Boing 2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:43

I know what you mean, Aditya but when Moss speaks on these matters - particular in light of his recent 'excursions' - one can't help but picture the scene of him falling down and then trying to take him seriously.

I'm not assassinating his character, just poking fun at the old boy. It's all in jest, really.

BTW: His points are very valid, but IMO the whole Schumacher-Barichello thing has been blown massively out of proportion. If one was to study the psychology behind it - rather than merely at face value - Barrichello was culpable too in my opinion.



at least moss's stupidity was accidental......


#5361 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:46

I think that Sir Stirling criticising for the last 20 years is understandable in the light of the fact that they lost one driver every second race weekend in Moss´ day. To him, it must mean terrible disrespect to the human life what is going on at the race tracks for the past 20 years.

1991 - 2010, the last 20 years.

What does it remind me of? Ah, that´s exactly the span of time that Schumacher is in the sport an he has a collection of incidents like no other driver.
So I would not ignore it, and MSC is not "just an example" but indeed THE example.

Hint for Diablobb81: if it would have been like Moss suggested we would not have seen Michael driving for most years of his career.



BS. Even Moss gives Senna's move as the first example of this era.

Maybe if this moves wouldn't have been allowed Michael wouldn't have made them. So he would have driven but with less questionable moves. But that can be said of most drivers of the new era. We have seen enough fights this year that wouldn't be allowed under Moss' vision of F1.

Edited by Diablobb81, 08 September 2010 - 09:48.


#5362 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:46

at least moss's stupidity was accidental......


Boo hoo that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you. Posted Image


This is my post on the matter:


Look, I'm not defending Schumacher here, I know when he is wrong and when he is fair. Yestersay, he was anything but fair.

However, a degree of culpability must also lay at Ruben' door. He, himself, chose to keep his foot in it and go on the inside despite seeing that Schumacher was squeezing him.

It was upmanship on Rubens' part and he himself admitted more or less that because it was Schumacher he had to go for it and that it was 'beautiful'. Let's not make Rubens' out to be a saint here, he knew the consequences but choose to stick to the inside (a) because it was psychologically gratifying for him (b) because it was Schumacher, c) there was pride at stake and lastly (d) there was a point to be had.

The last thing on Rubens' mind was getting that final point. He wanted to take it to Schumacher as an act of psychological gratification for what happened during those Ferrari years.

That's my opinion anyway.



#5363 Boing 2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:49

Boo hoo that someone doesn't share the same opinion as you. Posted Image


This is my post on the matter:



repeating it doesn't make it any less idiotic.


#5364 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:49

i seem to recall estoril 96 only schumacher and herbert had full wet set ups, the rest of the grid was intermediate, didn't stop that drive becoming part of the legend.


There seems to be always two standards of measuring in this thread:

One standard for Schumacher - "his race was legendary" (conveniently not looking at the fact that he was one of the few who had a wet set-up).

the other standard for e.g. Rosberg: - "he was only driving well because he had a wet set-up, unlike most others".

Of course, you can´t compare Estoril 96 with Spa 2010, and Michael did indeed drive races that are stuff of legend. Yet you can´t have it two ways, can you?

#5365 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:52

repeating it doesn't make it any less idiotic.


Fragile aren't we?

You're saying that Barrichello is ENTIRELY innocent and blameless? There was no agenda involved on his part? Barrichello was wound up and it was upmanship and vindication on his part for the ass-whooping he got from Michael for 6 years.

If he hadn't come within inches of the wall, I bet he would have blown his load in the car immediately afterwards. :rotfl:

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 08 September 2010 - 10:02.


#5366 Gareth

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:57

Yet you can´t have it two ways, can you?

I can see why in the 90s, with race set ups decided on the day, you would credit a driver more with correctly choosing a wet race set-up than you would now, with race setups decided the day before.

Now it is almost 100% lottery whereas then there was some element of skill in making the right call.

#5367 BRK

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:02

Lol,looks like some of you obsessed haters are still at it. Years and years down the drain and yet we never give up,good to see Michael will always be in your thoughts,no matter what. :lol:

On Rubens: old guy,I think he had a pretty embarrassing time at Spa,enjoying all the attention at the party and then making a fool of himself at the race. Whatever,I'm sure he's learnt his lesson. Just let him be,he'll be gone by next year.

#5368 Boing 2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:06

Fragile aren't we?

You're saying that Barrichello is ENTIRELY innocent and blameless? There was no agenda involved on his part? Barrichello was wound up and it was upmanship and vindication on his part for the ass-whooping he got from Michael for 6 years.

If he hadn't come within inches of the wall, I bet he would have blown his load in the car immediately afterwards. :rotfl:



there are FOURTY pages of this cack in the dedicated thread, you really think that didn't cover it well enough?

#5369 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:20

I can see why in the 90s, with race set ups decided on the day, you would credit a driver more with correctly choosing a wet race set-up than you would now, with race setups decided the day before.

Now it is almost 100% lottery whereas then there was some element of skill in making the right call.


That´s true, still that does not discredit the good result of a driver in the 2010s, whether he accidentally has chosen the right set-up or he really felt that would be the way to go (can you judge the decision process of a driver from a distance, Garth?).

What I was getting at was not the fact that now it is more a lottery to get the right set-up, but the way of discrediting the achievement of a driver with the right set-up (it can also go wrong with even the right set-up, remember Alonso). Also, other drivers are free as well to chose e.g. wet set-up.

If you go down that lane you end up excusing the two victories of Button this year by saying: "he just was lucky to make the right calls". Well, that´s one part of the equation only, second part is you have to make it stick as well.

From what I have seen in 2010 Rosberg was better than Schumacher more often than not both in making the right calls and in making it stick.

#5370 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:26

Well, that move on Micheal is Barri's greatest career moment. j/k

#5371 Gareth

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:33

That´s true, still that does not discredit the good result of a driver in the 2010s, whether he accidentally has chosen the right set-up or he really felt that would be the way to go (can you judge the decision process of a driver from a distance, Garth?).

What I was getting at was not the fact that now it is more a lottery to get the right set-up, but the way of discrediting the achievement of a driver with the right set-up (it can also go wrong with even the right set-up, remember Alonso). Also, other drivers are free as well to chose e.g. wet set-up.

If you go down that lane you end up excusing the two victories of Button this year by saying: "he just was lucky to make the right calls". Well, that´s one part of the equation only, second part is you have to make it stick as well.

From what I have seen in 2010 Rosberg was better than Schumacher more often than not both in making the right calls and in making it stick.

Yes, well, on the specfics of the race at Belgium I thought both did well. Schumacher clearly benefited from having the dry setup during that phase of the race (the majority) and Rosberg vice versa. Overall I was more impressed with Schumcher, who despite starting a long way off his team mate finished a short way off him, than Rosberg, who was 100% at fault for the end plate/tyre contact IMO.

On the whole season, obviously Rosberg has been the better driver. I'm not sure anyone would dispute that.

#5372 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:36

there are FOURTY pages of this cack in the dedicated thread, you really think that didn't cover it well enough?


So why offer your opinion then?

#5373 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:42

Yes, well, on the specfics of the race at Belgium I thought both did well. Schumacher clearly benefited from having the dry setup during that phase of the race (the majority) and Rosberg vice versa. Overall I was more impressed with Schumcher, who despite starting a long way off his team mate finished a short way off him, than Rosberg, who was 100% at fault for the end plate/tyre contact IMO.

On the whole season, obviously Rosberg has been the better driver. I'm not sure anyone would dispute that.


Obviously Mercedes does have a great team driver-wise, and Spa has always been one of Schumacher´s highlights. In fact, even the greatest Schumacher friends would have been disappointed had Michael shown badly in Spa.

What I was stressing is that you can´t have double standards.

Yet with MSC double standards seem to be the norm, both what concerns his performances lately as well as what concerns his behaviour on the track for throughout his career.
Michael must have had lots of spare good karma, but sooner or later, even the strongest reserves can dwindle.

#5374 Gareth

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:45

Yet with MSC double standards seem to be the norm, both what concerns his performances lately as well as what concerns his behaviour on the track for throughout his career.

I don't think MSC is special in having elements of his fan base that are like that. Particularly amongst succesful drivers.

#5375 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:51

I don't think MSC is special in having elements of his fan base that are like that. Particularly amongst succesful drivers.


That´s true, to a degree.

Take Alonso fans for example. Now that Alonso is not doing so well they are a little less loud-mouthed in their defense of Fernando. Contrary to that, Schumacher fans are very loyal, even when their idol is not doing well.

Well then, even I am loyal in criticising Schumacher, :lol: , and as we know from the teams that MSC has worked with, Michael is instigating loyalty with everyone he works with. So that´s a great quality then, and Michael might author a self-help book on "How can I create more loyalty in people around me".

:lol:


#5376 ivand911

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:59

Michael fans are strong in their "fight" with guys who criticize him ,just because he give them strong weapons at their disposal. It is not hard to defend the Best statistical driver in F1. It is like to take candy from a kid. :rotfl:

Edited by ivand911, 08 September 2010 - 11:21.


#5377 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:09

Michael fans are strong in their "fight" with guys who criticize him ,just because he give them strong weapons at their disposal. It is not hard to defend the Best statistic driver in F1. It is like to take candy from a kid. :rotfl:


Good one, Ivan - Michael is a statistic driver!

Michael is also giving strong weapons to those who don´t see eye to eye with him! :lol:

Goes together with what I said about building loyalty. Michael is giving strong tools to both sides, and thus keeps them involved. And he is a natural, not that he did it with calculation. It is only his self-interest that Michael is serving.


#5378 Frans

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:25

Sir Stirling Moss is absolutely right, Schumacaher IS a dirty driver, and it's the error of our age. To safe for them who drive in they're minds....

And dirty drivers never turn in fair one's, they will never change as well, like Moss said. In his time, those drity drivers just vanished at some point.
Nowadays they seem to be the comback-kid or ehm, comeback/granddad with a Merc.

Michael will never learn it, he won't even see it himself like it is I'm afraid.... oh well, nothing new under this Sun.

#5379 ivand911

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 13:08

NOVEMBER 13, 1995
... and plans early retirement

MICHAEL SCHUMACHER says that he isn't planning to get old in Formula 1 racing. The 26-year-old double World Champion says he is not going to hang around in Grand Prix racing like many of the previous F1 generation.

"I would say that I'm going to stay another five years," he told pressmen in Australia, "but I'm not going to get old in F1. Whether it will be five years or four or six I'm not sure yet."

In recent years F1 drivers have tended to retire late with the likes of Keke Rosberg, Emerson Fittipaldi, Niki Lauda, Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet and Alan Jones all being in their mid-late 30s or older when they decided to hang up their helmets in F1. In the 1970s, retirements tended to be earlier: Jody Scheckter stopping at 30, James Hunt at 32 and Jackie Stewart at 34.

Schumacher said that his chief motivation is to "have fun."
http://grandprix.com/ns/ns00362.html

Our Michael , he always keep his promise. He just want to have fun. :)

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#5380 Polle

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 13:27

Moss has always been critical and unfavorable towards Schumacher. Totally over the top like Lauda at times. I always like Brundle's takes on Schumacher. Very critical of Schumacher's antics, *when he does it* but at the same time, kind of admires him for his talent.

#5381 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 15:43

NOVEMBER 13, 1995
... and plans early retirement

MICHAEL SCHUMACHER says that he isn't planning to get old in Formula 1 racing. The 26-year-old double World Champion says he is not going to hang around in Grand Prix racing like many of the previous F1 generation.

"I would say that I'm going to stay another five years," he told pressmen in Australia, "but I'm not going to get old in F1. Whether it will be five years or four or six I'm not sure yet."

In recent years F1 drivers have tended to retire late with the likes of Keke Rosberg, Emerson Fittipaldi, Niki Lauda, Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet and Alan Jones all being in their mid-late 30s or older when they decided to hang up their helmets in F1. In the 1970s, retirements tended to be earlier: Jody Scheckter stopping at 30, James Hunt at 32 and Jackie Stewart at 34.

Schumacher said that his chief motivation is to "have fun."
http://grandprix.com/ns/ns00362.html

Our Michael , he always keep his promise. He just want to have fun. :)



Interesting, I never knew he had such 'short' ambitions for the Ferrari tenure.

Obviously, he had a radical re-think after all the success and winning formula was in place (not to mention the $100,000 a day salary).

#5382 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 15:53

Interesting, I never knew he had such 'short' ambitions for the Ferrari tenure.

Obviously, he had a radical re-think after all the success and winning formula was in place (not to mention the $100,000 a day salary).


This is maybe one of the most amazing records that Schumi holds: the $100.000 a day salary!

That´s $4.166,67 per hour, no matter if he worked in that hour or slept, or $69,44 per minute. Love him or loathe him, to be able to extract such salary is indeed admirable.
And surely convincing enough to carry on in the sport. Well, in 2000, when he announced the "era Ferrari", these thoughts Michael seems to have had in 1995 were well past Michael.

#5383 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 16:09

Will be interesting to see if the FIA will take a tougher stance on "on track violence" for not being an ambassador of driving as well:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/86472

In the future, Schumi will not be able to highjack a taxi so easily and race it to the Munich´s "Franz-Josef-Strauss" Airport or it will cost him his superlicence. Also, if they take that stance for behaviour at F1 races as well, MSC might lose his super license and Sir Stirling may have his wish fulfilled.

#5384 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 16:21

Will be interesting to see if the FIA will take a tougher stance on "on track violence" for not being an ambassador of driving as well:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/86472

In the future, Schumi will not be able to highjack a taxi so easily and race it to the Munich´s "Franz-Josef-Strauss" Airport or it will cost him his superlicence. Also, if they take that stance for behaviour at F1 races as well, MSC might lose his super license and Sir Stirling may have his wish fulfilled.


The only thing that Sir Stirling needs to focus on is upgrading his eye glasses prescription so he doesn't walk into - and fall down - an empty elevator shaft next time. :lol:

(Sorry Aditya, I couldn't resist hehe )

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 08 September 2010 - 16:23.


#5385 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 18:39

The only thing that Sir Stirling needs to focus on is upgrading his eye glasses prescription so he doesn't walk into - and fall down - an empty elevator shaft next time. :lol:

(Sorry Aditya, I couldn't resist hehe )

Moss might need that, but he is still in a better state than someone whose chin gets in the way of the brake pedal and crashes into the wall, breaking his legs :rotfl: :rotfl:

:rolleyes:



#5386 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 18:44

Moss might need that, but he is still in a better state than someone whose chin gets in the way of the brake pedal and crashes into the wall, breaking his legs :rotfl: :rotfl:

:rolleyes:


Still isn't as bad as walking into an empty elevator shaft and then falling 20ft.


*childish mode off*

#5387 carbonfibre

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 18:52

Wow Moss said something negative again what a surprise.

Good old sir stirling moss never fails to deliver. He needs to remember the sport has changed a lot since he retired and he should accept that. Everything changes whether it's for the good or the bad that's different for everybody.

#5388 ivand911

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 18:57

Moss might need that, but he is still in a better state than someone whose chin gets in the way of the brake pedal and crashes into the wall, breaking his legs :rotfl: :rotfl:

:rolleyes:

Maybe,this is what you need to win 5 consecutive titles? :rotfl: To Break a leg. :clap:

Edited by ivand911, 08 September 2010 - 18:58.


#5389 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 19:37

The only thing that Sir Stirling needs to focus on is upgrading his eye glasses prescription so he doesn't walk into - and fall down - an empty elevator shaft next time. :lol:

(Sorry Aditya, I couldn't resist hehe )


Did I notice some mischievousness there?
 ;)


#5390 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 19:43

Maybe,this is what you need to win 5 consecutive titles? :rotfl: To Break a leg. :clap:


Then time for Michael to break his legs again for the next 5 titles!

:clap:


#5391 ivand911

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 20:24

Michael interview in GQ:
http://www.gq-magazi...10/09/08/22791/
http://translate.goo...&...2F08/22791/
Focus on Michael interview please. :)

#5392 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 20:42

Focus on Michael interview please. :)


Posted Image



Actually I rather focus on his beautiful sunglasses and cool outfit!
:lol:

#5393 dav115

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 21:20

Moss might need that, but he is still in a better state than someone whose chin loosens a bleed nipple on the rear braking circuit and crashes into the wall, breaking his legs :rotfl: :rotfl:

:rolleyes:

Fixed that for you :).

#5394 Raelene

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 21:28

Posted Image



Actually I rather focus on his beautiful sunglasses and cool outfit!
:lol:


LOL although the sunnies are better than those ugly white ones he normally wears

#5395 arknor

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 21:41

LOL although the sunnies are better than those ugly white ones he normally wears

sad thing is his ridiculous outfits probably cost more than most of us make in a month

#5396 Raelene

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 22:01

he should be excused - he is German. I have b een to Germany, I have a German sister in law - fashion isn't their strong point!

#5397 baddog

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 22:19

He would not be out of place in summer in any german city as raelene says .. but damned if that is going to stop it being funny ;)

#5398 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 22:30

He would not be out of place in summer in any german city as raelene says .. but damned if that is going to stop it being funny ;)


That´s the fact - you will see many A type male Germans in the summer in the city just looking like this. It is funny indeed, even if you get used to it. It does not show a special sense of aesthetics, though.


#5399 Clatter

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 22:52

That´s the fact - you will see many A type male Germans in the summer in the city just looking like this. It is funny indeed, even if you get used to it. It does not show a special sense of aesthetics, though.


:o Is the German fashion sense really that bad?

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#5400 aditya-now

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 22:55

:o Is the German fashion sense really that bad?


Well, you decide. Of course, Michael Schumacher is an especially fine specimen of German fashion sense....

http://forums.autosp...p;hl=schumacher