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#5501 ivand911

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 19:15

Some pictures:
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#5502 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 19:20

Rosberg 7th, Schumacher 12th.

What more can you say on a track that is technically not that difficult?


I don't know Aditya. Martin Brundle said that it was a track where a sweet spot was needed in terms of set up, drag, downforce and mechanical grip. The top speed is only a small element in the chain (witness Button, who had lots of drag and was amongst the slowest in the straightline but still qualified second).

He said it was on par with Monaco (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong) in terms of set up even though the two couldn't be more different from one another.

Also see how many drivers missed their braking point and went off into the run off areas (first chicane, Parabolica) and the two Lesmo corners. It's more demanding than it looks, though I suspect not as demanding as somewhere like Suzuka for instance.

#5503 rog

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 19:29

It's obvious a driver issue not a Setup problem. This can happen one race or two races but not over the whole season long. Rosberg is just faster and can cope with the car better.

#5504 ivand911

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 20:24

It's obvious a driver issue not a Setup problem. This can happen one race or two races but not over the whole season long. Rosberg is just faster and can cope with the car better.

If you say so,but this is MS thread. MS vs Nico is another thread.


#5505 Muz Bee

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 21:36

thank god for passionate fans rather than some of the arrogant nonesense written by some.

its a dull world where we are all so disspassionate and mature and wordly like muzza

how that poster could be seen as sad just leaves me speechless.

If you find reality sad, welcome to the world. Michael running the way he used to is cause for passion and, dare I say it, flags and silly face paint. But Michael running 0.5 off his teammate's times in qualifying is sad for a once great driver.

#5506 Disgrace

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 00:52

EJ seems to think Schumacher has already chose to leave the team.


He's probably wrong but he has come up with a few gems of unbelievable knowledge before. Speaking for myself only, I hope he is right on this occasion for his sake and those around him.

#5507 vovelo

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:58

You mean that Nico get new chassis in Germany, where Michael get his old chassis? Maybe, but that was not the plan.

If those figures with chassic numbers are correct then yes,Michael use old Rosberg's chassic 02 since Germany GP.



#5508 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:48

He's probably wrong but he has come up with a few gems of unbelievable knowledge before. Speaking for myself only, I hope he is right on this occasion for his sake and those around him.

his whole reasoning for it is that aparently alot of drivers have been visiting mercedes...

didnt they just lose heidfeld to pirreli? :rolleyes:

sometimes EJ should engage his brain

#5509 teejay

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:58

his whole reasoning for it is that aparently alot of drivers have been visiting mercedes...

didnt they just lose heidfeld to pirreli? :rolleyes:

sometimes EJ should engage his brain


What was the reason they didnt visit the ream at Spa if this was a case of people scrambling to get the highly sought 3rd driver roll at the team?

#5510 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:00

What was the reason they didnt visit the ream at Spa if this was a case of people scrambling to get the highly sought 3rd driver roll at the team?

theres loads of wannabe f1 drivers at monza if u didnt know bbc did a thing about them, maybe EJ is BSing about drivers visiting mercedes though wouldnt surprise me

cant see schumacher quitting next year and i cant see him beeing forced out.

hes been a good #2 not that far behind rosberg most races apart from when hes had tons of bad luck and its well known the car has massive flaws, next year would be the year to judge wether he has made the right decision coming back or not imo.

#5511 teejay

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:22

There is wanna be F1 drivers at every race i dare say - more so when the GP2 circus is following.

#5512 Ivanoff

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:54

What an odd thing to say!!

"We feel like we're alive. again" Bit over the top isnt it?!!


No.
Here we have used Michael`s own words from the press-conference on 12\09\2009. It was clear that he was very excited about replacing Massa, so therefore not being able to make the comeback was devastating for him. He said: “I felt alive again and now I had to cancel all this.”

#5513 Ivanoff

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:09

This banner is from hardcore Russian fans. Very emotional one. I hope Michael will pay attention on it,people did a hard job to create,bring and put it there.


Russians, Ukranians. Doesn't matter. It has no boundaries. I like to see a great amount of Michael's supporters in any country of the world. The main idea was to show the support and respect when the difficulties are all around. This is more clever and significant than producing loads of shit through the keyboard in the forum wars.

#5514 aditya-now

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:02

Congrats on finally cracking the meaning on what a fan is..... Of course people lose interest when their heros retire. Oh that right, it's Schumacher! Someone get the fire extinguisher!


Thanks, Polle! :)

Am I not smart? :smoking:














:lol:













#5515 Tolyngee

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:14

How is that worth a thumbs down? All he's saying is that he and his engineer have failed to come up with a working setup this weekend, as shown by him struggling with the car all over the place.


Okay, you're one of the greatest F1 drivers of all time. You've just been out-qualified by your teammate (yet again) by a half-second or so...

A reporter asks if you got the most you could out of the car:

"it's probably what my car was giving me"

For one of the greats, he sure sounds like he's just blaming his equipment, and such a statement sounds very uncertain, unenthusiastic and unmotivated.

I don't understand what's going on with MS, but he's got nothing to prove, so if he's not enjoying it, enjoy retirement or some other series...

Rosberg has three podiums this year. MS has none. Speaks for itself.

#5516 slaveceru

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:44

Okay, you're one of the greatest F1 drivers of all time. You've just been out-qualified by your teammate (yet again) by a half-second or so...


Get your fact right the difference was 0.3 sec and not 0.5 sec.

#5517 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:49

Okay, you're one of the greatest F1 drivers of all time. You've just been out-qualified by your teammate (yet again) by a half-second or so...

A reporter asks if you got the most you could out of the car:

"it's probably what my car was giving me"

For one of the greats, he sure sounds like he's just blaming his equipment, and such a statement sounds very uncertain, unenthusiastic and unmotivated.

I don't understand what's going on with MS, but he's got nothing to prove, so if he's not enjoying it, enjoy retirement or some other series...

Rosberg has three podiums this year. MS has none. Speaks for itself.

He maybe could have one podium if he was not hit in Australia. Button who hit Alonso and him, win in the end. Kubica was behind Button(when he hit Michael) and finish 2nd in the end. Michael was infront of them. I don't know but people forget that, in the first 4 races was made 40 points difference between Nico and Michael. In the next 9 races Nico made only 18 points more than Michael. With the luck playing big role in all this.


#5518 Muz Bee

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 11:26

He maybe could have one podium if he was not hit in Australia. Button who hit Alonso and him, win in the end. Kubica was behind Button(when he hit Michael) and finish 2nd in the end. Michael was infront of them. I don't know but people forget that, in the first 4 races was made 40 points difference between Nico and Michael. In the next 9 races Nico made only 18 points more than Michael. With the luck playing big role in all this.

Never let the facts get in the way of a polarised point of view. We have to ignore the team's screw-ups with Nico's car? Like the wheel that fell off is not bad luck? Somehow Michael was on course for 3rd apparently? Very optimistic piece of projection. Nico has continued to dominate Michael in speed - if he could nail a good start from the clean side... no I won't go there because it's just idle speculation. I fail to see that Michael has had a season marked by particularly bad luck, just poor speed, particularly in qual. Yesterday was just another example of it.

#5519 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 11:32

Never let the facts get in the way of a polarised point of view. We have to ignore the team's screw-ups with Nico's car? Like the wheel that fell off is not bad luck? Somehow Michael was on course for 3rd apparently? Very optimistic piece of projection. Nico has continued to dominate Michael in speed - if he could nail a good start from the clean side... no I won't go there because it's just idle speculation. I fail to see that Michael has had a season marked by particularly bad luck, just poor speed, particularly in qual. Yesterday was just another example of it.

Fact is Michael was infront of Button and Kubica in the first corner in Australia. Button "help" Michael to go at back of the grid? Button won, Kubica second. Facts? Fact is he beat Button twice.

Edited by ivand911, 12 September 2010 - 11:34.


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#5520 Tolyngee

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 11:47

Get your fact right the difference was 0.3 sec and not 0.5 sec.


You know the season ain't going well when the best comeback regarding MS's performance is "He was only .361 seconds off the pace, not a full half-second or so..."

Is that .139 difference noteworthy? .361 or .5 seconds off Rosberg's pace, MS still qualifies in the same spot. So, no, it really makes no difference.

If MS returns next season and does more of the same, there's no way the team's going to even want him back for a third season.

#5521 Tolyngee

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:00

He maybe could have


So, coulda/would/shoulda/maybe/almost?

But here's the funny thing:

For a great driver, you're supposed to do a coulda/would/shoulda/maybe/almost about them just barely not winning the WDC.

We're doing a coulda/would/shoulda/maybe/almost that MS barely missed a podium this season?

I mean, really? Unfortunately this forum doesn't a facepalm emoticon...

To think when I heard MS was returning I about got cable so I could watch all of the races live. To think I considered watching the races for this man.


FWIW - in Nico's previous four years in F1 with Williams, he had two podium finishes. Two. That's one every-other season.

In four races with Mercedes, he had already equaled his performance at Williams. Six races later, he got another.

And his teammate, one of the best ever, cannot seem to muster up one?

#5522 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:09

not a bad start so far :D

#5523 Wade

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:11

Im begging you Schumacher, dont screw up today.

#5524 SpeedyS

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:13

Is there anyone whos say MS is not the best 1st lap driver??

#5525 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:29

What tyres have Michael?

#5526 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:29

Is there anyone whos say MS is not the best 1st lap driver??

webber got past him but i guess that was inevitable , rosberg has has just as good a first lap as schumacher aswell which is good for the team.


looks like schumi is faster than buemi so hopefully he wont slide down the field...

#5527 SpeedyS

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:39

webber got past him but i guess that was inevitable , rosberg has has just as good a first lap as schumacher aswell which is good for the team.


looks like schumi is faster than buemi so hopefully he wont slide down the field...


I believe he is on hards

#5528 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:58

I believe he is on hards

i believe they pitted schumi even if he was on hards to get him out of rosbergs way

#5529 SpeedyS

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:13

i believe they pitted schumi even if he was on hards to get him out of rosbergs way


He is sort of in position where he cannot gain anything and is 12 sec clear Petrov, just a matter of finishing out the race. Some good sector times but struggling with consistancy

#5530 Amrl

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:38

Schumacher needs to leave Mercedes now. Not at the end of the season, but now. Ross Brawn isn't the man he used to be and the team is an embarrassment. Clearly they don't want Michael to win. Where next? McLaren, maybe, or back to Ferrari if Hamilton vetoes the move. Michael knows he still has a few more championships in him so it's too early to re-retire.

#5531 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:48

Schumacher needs to leave Mercedes now. Not at the end of the season, but now. Ross Brawn isn't the man he used to be and the team is an embarrassment. Clearly they don't want Michael to win. Where next? McLaren, maybe, or back to Ferrari if Hamilton vetoes the move. Michael knows he still has a few more championships in him so it's too early to re-retire.


I'll have some of what you're drinking please ;-)

M Schumacher is an embarrassment for the Merc GP team. He was slower than Rosberg for virtually every lap from friday until the chequered flag. ;-)

I would think there are up to a dozen drivers in F1 that are better than him.

Where next? I think it is best for him to retire now. He gave it a shot but he just doesnt have what it takes to match Rosberg let alone the big boys. I hope for his sake he calls it a day before something serious goes wrong.

#5532 aditya-now

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:02

I'll have some of what you're drinking please ;-)

M Schumacher is an embarrassment for the Merc GP team. He was slower than Rosberg for virtually every lap from friday until the chequered flag. ;-)

I would think there are up to a dozen drivers in F1 that are better than him.

Where next? I think it is best for him to retire now. He gave it a shot but he just doesnt have what it takes to match Rosberg let alone the big boys. I hope for his sake he calls it a day before something serious goes wrong.


Disappointing yet again. I think it´s over for Michael - this is a course he won previously many races on and now again he gets beaten consumately by Rosberg. The only thing he can take heart from today is that he defeated Barrichello.

Michael might just (have to) leave Mercedes. But who else will give him a cockpit?


#5533 Coral

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:08

Although I am not a Schumacher fan I really did not want his comeback to fail, but he just looks embarrassing now. I know he says he is in F1 to enjoy himself but how can he enjoy being trounced by Rosberg? I think it's the end of the road for Michael in F1 now, sadly.

#5534 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:18

Disappointing yet again. I think it´s over for Michael - this is a course he won previously many races on and now again he gets beaten consumately by Rosberg. The only thing he can take heart from today is that he defeated Barrichello.

Michael might just (have to) leave Mercedes. But who else will give him a cockpit?


In the past Schumacher used to clinch championships with five races to go, today he was mathematically eliminated. Time to move on.

#5535 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:25

In the past Schumacher used to clinch championships with five races to go, today he was mathematically eliminated. Time to move on.

to next sure yes...

everyone knows the car has huge problems and its just one big headache to everyone.

give him a car with some front grip and no traction issues , decent downforce efficiency and proper balance and im sure he would fair alot better

#5536 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:26

Disappointing yet again. I think it´s over for Michael - this is a course he won previously many races on and now again he gets beaten consumately by Rosberg. The only thing he can take heart from today is that he defeated Barrichello.

Michael might just (have to) leave Mercedes. But who else will give him a cockpit?


If I were a team owner I would rather have Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Vettel, Webber, Rosberg, Massa, Kubica, Hulk, Sutil, Kolv, Trulli, Barrichello, Glock, Kobayashi and possibly Petrov (considering his scope for improvement) in my team. That is 15 or 16 drivers that I would have preference over M Schumacher.

Given the extra sponsorship he could attract, I'm thinking a team like Sauber could be a good fit or perhaps Lotus who at this stage of their development can sacrifice speed of a driver for experience and sponsorship potential. He would be making up the numbers obviously but he has been doing that for the whole of 2010 without showing any signs of improvement.

Over the years, it has been known for medium rated drivers to find their their way into very competitive teams/cars due to circumstances and contractual situations like when Eddie Cheever drove for Renault in 1983. But the depth of quality of the drivers today and the depth of quality of competitive teams is such that I dont think M Schumacher could fluke his way into a seat with a very top team once he leaves Merc. His days are numbered. If he had shown signs of improvement the thrashing he is taking from Rosberg wouldn't be the final nail in the coffin, but he simply has no answers.


#5537 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:26

I don't know what people expected given today's starting positions. Rosberg continued to be a bit faster than Schumi during the race, as shown in all the previous practice runs and the qualifying. Maybe he could have held Webber behind him a bit longer, but that would've really been of little use, when the line is drawn.

Maybe worth noting is that after the pit-stops, Rosberg had a harder time getting adjusted to the new tires.

#5538 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:34

He only finished 15 odd seconds off of Rosberg who himself was leading the train behind him as he held up several drivers.

Don't kid yourself at thinking that Michael is the problem or even an issue at Mercedes.

Why don't people just accept that it takes time to win. Imagine if RedBull had jumped ship and it's drivers 2 years back..

JUST ACCEPT ALREADY as Mercedes has that this season IS OVER FOR THEM. Front office to back office. Bring on 2011 and we'll see where they are at with team 1st try at a full works team.

Since there is nothing being done to this car.. it should be expected that Rosberg will probably finish each qualifying and race ahead of Michael for the remainder of the season. There is no reason to think that anything will change for the next few months.

Edited by Paco, 12 September 2010 - 14:35.


#5539 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:38

Very good race by Michael. Beat at the start Sutil and Bari. Get 9th position back from Sutil. There is thread for Nico vs Michael. I don't know what man and aditya expected from 12th starting position. But, we don't mind them, they are in their usual style. LOL Every thread need jokers. Team get very got result for WCC and WDC. Period.

Edited by ivand911, 12 September 2010 - 14:39.


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#5540 Johnrambo

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:38

Poor Norbert Haug. He was again interviewed by RTL after the race and lately he always has the same look like a deer in the headlights.

#5541 Diablobb81

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:39

He is here to stay at least for next year. So why do people bother with long useless posts.

Of, course when they have no clue about F1 and expect Michael to suddenly overtake Rosberg there isn't much to talk about.

Poor Norbert Haug. He was again interviewed by RTL after the race and lately he always has the same look like a deer in the headlights.


Bullshit. The situation with and in the team is well known to everybody. He gave relaxed answers.

Edited by Diablobb81, 12 September 2010 - 14:41.


#5542 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:42

Poor Norbert Haug. He was again interviewed by RTL after the race and lately he always has the same look like a deer in the headlights.

Norbert was in very good mood. Michael was only one in top 10 , who gain 3 positions.


#5543 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:44

Poor Norbert Haug. He was again interviewed by RTL after the race and lately he always has the same look like a deer in the headlights.

right...erm the team acheieved about the best they could given the car and lack of development...

if anyone needs blaming its not schumacher its the people who so far have

got the car balance in the chasis wrong and its not alowed to be fixed because of the rules. (this is why they have little front end grip and they struggle to get the tyres into the peak operating temprature)

aero effciency is about as bad as the HRT

F-duct still doesnt work

Blown diffuser still doesnt work.

has the team even came with any upgrades that actually were an upgrade?

its the same as last year the car seems to be getting worse and worse with every upgrade they try.

sometimes rosberg has been lucky and managed to finish higher than he should because of crashes , retirements etc and overall hes been much more consistent.

trying to make schumacher a scapegoat is ridiculous and anyone who seriously believes

, Hulk, Sutil, Kolv, Trulli, Barrichello, Glock, Kobayashi and possibly Petrov

would do a better job is smoking crack


the way some people go on you would think schumacher designed the car and all of the upgrades

Edited by arknor, 12 September 2010 - 14:47.


#5544 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:49

Very good race by Michael. Beat at the start Sutil and Bari. Get 9th position back from Sutil. There is thread for Nico vs Michael. I don't know what man and aditya expected from 12th starting position. But, we don't mind them, they are in their usual style. LOL Every thread need jokers. Team get very got result for WCC and WDC. Period.


Thank you ivand911 and your spin ;-)

Well first of all M Schumacher was the one that was responsible for his grid position so it is a little odd to brush that fact under the carpet as if the destiny of the race was out of M Schumacher's hands.

Second of all, M Schumacher had clear air in front of him and was slower than Rosberg for pretty much every lap not just on race day, but during practice and qualifying too.

But I agree, we shouldn't be suprised by this now, and I'm not. I'm merely describing events.

So I guess it depends on what your expectations are. If being beaten by your teammate in every session and on race day is considered a good thing - I need to re-read the definition of competition.



#5545 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:50

Norbert was in very good mood. Michael was only one in top 10 , who gain 3 positions.


When you start as low as he often does, the scope for improvement tends to be bigger, no?

;-)

Edited by man, 12 September 2010 - 14:50.


#5546 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:57

Thank you ivand911 and your spin ;-)

Well first of all M Schumacher was the one that was responsible for his grid position so it is a little odd to brush that fact under the carpet as if the destiny of the race was out of M Schumacher's hands.

Second of all, M Schumacher had clear air in front of him and was slower than Rosberg for pretty much every lap not just on race day, but during practice and qualifying too.

But I agree, we shouldn't be suprised by this now, and I'm not. I'm merely describing events.

So I guess it depends on what your expectations are. If being beaten by your teammate in every session and on race day is considered a good thing - I need to re-read the definition of competition.

Don't you understand that you are on wrong thread. There is no Nico in this thread. For the last time : He was also in free air and Kubica was all the time 2 sec behind him, the same with Hulk. He wasn't faster than them. He was leading the train.


#5547 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:57

Second of all, M Schumacher had clear air in front of him and was slower than Rosberg for pretty much every lap not just on race day, but during practice and qualifying too.

you realise schumacher was on hard tyres
rosberg was on soft tyres


maybe you dont actually wnay an inteligent discussion with logic though

lets pretend hard tyres arent slower than soft tyres so you can have your post though eh?

no point schumacher started on hard tyres if they pit him at the same time as everyone on soft anyway

#5548 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:04

you realise schumacher was on hard tyres
rosberg was on soft tyres


maybe you dont actually wnay an inteligent discussion with logic though

lets pretend hard tyres arent slower than soft tyres so you can have your post though eh?

no point schumacher started on hard tyres if they pit him at the same time as everyone on soft anyway

Michael was on hards at the start? If this is the case, his drive was very very good. And this softs lasted forever.

Edited by ivand911, 12 September 2010 - 15:05.


#5549 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:09

Michael was on hards at the start? If this is the case, his drive was very very good. And this softs lasted forever.

someone on here said he was :p

ill try to find some photos and see if he had a greenstripe

#5550 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:14

Ross Brawn on BBC F1 Forum basically quashes the Schumacher rumours and says he'll be there in 2011.

Edited by D.M.N., 12 September 2010 - 15:15.