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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#5501 Tolyngee

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:00

He maybe could have


So, coulda/would/shoulda/maybe/almost?

But here's the funny thing:

For a great driver, you're supposed to do a coulda/would/shoulda/maybe/almost about them just barely not winning the WDC.

We're doing a coulda/would/shoulda/maybe/almost that MS barely missed a podium this season?

I mean, really? Unfortunately this forum doesn't a facepalm emoticon...

To think when I heard MS was returning I about got cable so I could watch all of the races live. To think I considered watching the races for this man.


FWIW - in Nico's previous four years in F1 with Williams, he had two podium finishes. Two. That's one every-other season.

In four races with Mercedes, he had already equaled his performance at Williams. Six races later, he got another.

And his teammate, one of the best ever, cannot seem to muster up one?

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#5502 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:09

not a bad start so far :D

#5503 Wade

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:11

Im begging you Schumacher, dont screw up today.

#5504 SpeedyS

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:13

Is there anyone whos say MS is not the best 1st lap driver??

#5505 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:29

What tyres have Michael?

#5506 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:29

Is there anyone whos say MS is not the best 1st lap driver??

webber got past him but i guess that was inevitable , rosberg has has just as good a first lap as schumacher aswell which is good for the team.


looks like schumi is faster than buemi so hopefully he wont slide down the field...

#5507 SpeedyS

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:39

webber got past him but i guess that was inevitable , rosberg has has just as good a first lap as schumacher aswell which is good for the team.


looks like schumi is faster than buemi so hopefully he wont slide down the field...


I believe he is on hards

#5508 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 12:58

I believe he is on hards

i believe they pitted schumi even if he was on hards to get him out of rosbergs way

#5509 SpeedyS

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:13

i believe they pitted schumi even if he was on hards to get him out of rosbergs way


He is sort of in position where he cannot gain anything and is 12 sec clear Petrov, just a matter of finishing out the race. Some good sector times but struggling with consistancy

#5510 Amrl

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:38

Schumacher needs to leave Mercedes now. Not at the end of the season, but now. Ross Brawn isn't the man he used to be and the team is an embarrassment. Clearly they don't want Michael to win. Where next? McLaren, maybe, or back to Ferrari if Hamilton vetoes the move. Michael knows he still has a few more championships in him so it's too early to re-retire.

#5511 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 13:48

Schumacher needs to leave Mercedes now. Not at the end of the season, but now. Ross Brawn isn't the man he used to be and the team is an embarrassment. Clearly they don't want Michael to win. Where next? McLaren, maybe, or back to Ferrari if Hamilton vetoes the move. Michael knows he still has a few more championships in him so it's too early to re-retire.


I'll have some of what you're drinking please ;-)

M Schumacher is an embarrassment for the Merc GP team. He was slower than Rosberg for virtually every lap from friday until the chequered flag. ;-)

I would think there are up to a dozen drivers in F1 that are better than him.

Where next? I think it is best for him to retire now. He gave it a shot but he just doesnt have what it takes to match Rosberg let alone the big boys. I hope for his sake he calls it a day before something serious goes wrong.

#5512 aditya-now

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:02

I'll have some of what you're drinking please ;-)

M Schumacher is an embarrassment for the Merc GP team. He was slower than Rosberg for virtually every lap from friday until the chequered flag. ;-)

I would think there are up to a dozen drivers in F1 that are better than him.

Where next? I think it is best for him to retire now. He gave it a shot but he just doesnt have what it takes to match Rosberg let alone the big boys. I hope for his sake he calls it a day before something serious goes wrong.


Disappointing yet again. I think it´s over for Michael - this is a course he won previously many races on and now again he gets beaten consumately by Rosberg. The only thing he can take heart from today is that he defeated Barrichello.

Michael might just (have to) leave Mercedes. But who else will give him a cockpit?


#5513 Coral

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:08

Although I am not a Schumacher fan I really did not want his comeback to fail, but he just looks embarrassing now. I know he says he is in F1 to enjoy himself but how can he enjoy being trounced by Rosberg? I think it's the end of the road for Michael in F1 now, sadly.

#5514 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:18

Disappointing yet again. I think it´s over for Michael - this is a course he won previously many races on and now again he gets beaten consumately by Rosberg. The only thing he can take heart from today is that he defeated Barrichello.

Michael might just (have to) leave Mercedes. But who else will give him a cockpit?


In the past Schumacher used to clinch championships with five races to go, today he was mathematically eliminated. Time to move on.

#5515 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:25

In the past Schumacher used to clinch championships with five races to go, today he was mathematically eliminated. Time to move on.

to next sure yes...

everyone knows the car has huge problems and its just one big headache to everyone.

give him a car with some front grip and no traction issues , decent downforce efficiency and proper balance and im sure he would fair alot better

#5516 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:26

Disappointing yet again. I think it´s over for Michael - this is a course he won previously many races on and now again he gets beaten consumately by Rosberg. The only thing he can take heart from today is that he defeated Barrichello.

Michael might just (have to) leave Mercedes. But who else will give him a cockpit?


If I were a team owner I would rather have Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Vettel, Webber, Rosberg, Massa, Kubica, Hulk, Sutil, Kolv, Trulli, Barrichello, Glock, Kobayashi and possibly Petrov (considering his scope for improvement) in my team. That is 15 or 16 drivers that I would have preference over M Schumacher.

Given the extra sponsorship he could attract, I'm thinking a team like Sauber could be a good fit or perhaps Lotus who at this stage of their development can sacrifice speed of a driver for experience and sponsorship potential. He would be making up the numbers obviously but he has been doing that for the whole of 2010 without showing any signs of improvement.

Over the years, it has been known for medium rated drivers to find their their way into very competitive teams/cars due to circumstances and contractual situations like when Eddie Cheever drove for Renault in 1983. But the depth of quality of the drivers today and the depth of quality of competitive teams is such that I dont think M Schumacher could fluke his way into a seat with a very top team once he leaves Merc. His days are numbered. If he had shown signs of improvement the thrashing he is taking from Rosberg wouldn't be the final nail in the coffin, but he simply has no answers.


#5517 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:26

I don't know what people expected given today's starting positions. Rosberg continued to be a bit faster than Schumi during the race, as shown in all the previous practice runs and the qualifying. Maybe he could have held Webber behind him a bit longer, but that would've really been of little use, when the line is drawn.

Maybe worth noting is that after the pit-stops, Rosberg had a harder time getting adjusted to the new tires.

#5518 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:34

He only finished 15 odd seconds off of Rosberg who himself was leading the train behind him as he held up several drivers.

Don't kid yourself at thinking that Michael is the problem or even an issue at Mercedes.

Why don't people just accept that it takes time to win. Imagine if RedBull had jumped ship and it's drivers 2 years back..

JUST ACCEPT ALREADY as Mercedes has that this season IS OVER FOR THEM. Front office to back office. Bring on 2011 and we'll see where they are at with team 1st try at a full works team.

Since there is nothing being done to this car.. it should be expected that Rosberg will probably finish each qualifying and race ahead of Michael for the remainder of the season. There is no reason to think that anything will change for the next few months.

Edited by Paco, 12 September 2010 - 14:35.


#5519 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:38

Very good race by Michael. Beat at the start Sutil and Bari. Get 9th position back from Sutil. There is thread for Nico vs Michael. I don't know what man and aditya expected from 12th starting position. But, we don't mind them, they are in their usual style. LOL Every thread need jokers. Team get very got result for WCC and WDC. Period.

Edited by ivand911, 12 September 2010 - 14:39.


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#5520 Johnrambo

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:38

Poor Norbert Haug. He was again interviewed by RTL after the race and lately he always has the same look like a deer in the headlights.

#5521 Diablobb81

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:39

He is here to stay at least for next year. So why do people bother with long useless posts.

Of, course when they have no clue about F1 and expect Michael to suddenly overtake Rosberg there isn't much to talk about.

Poor Norbert Haug. He was again interviewed by RTL after the race and lately he always has the same look like a deer in the headlights.


Bullshit. The situation with and in the team is well known to everybody. He gave relaxed answers.

Edited by Diablobb81, 12 September 2010 - 14:41.


#5522 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:42

Poor Norbert Haug. He was again interviewed by RTL after the race and lately he always has the same look like a deer in the headlights.

Norbert was in very good mood. Michael was only one in top 10 , who gain 3 positions.


#5523 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:44

Poor Norbert Haug. He was again interviewed by RTL after the race and lately he always has the same look like a deer in the headlights.

right...erm the team acheieved about the best they could given the car and lack of development...

if anyone needs blaming its not schumacher its the people who so far have

got the car balance in the chasis wrong and its not alowed to be fixed because of the rules. (this is why they have little front end grip and they struggle to get the tyres into the peak operating temprature)

aero effciency is about as bad as the HRT

F-duct still doesnt work

Blown diffuser still doesnt work.

has the team even came with any upgrades that actually were an upgrade?

its the same as last year the car seems to be getting worse and worse with every upgrade they try.

sometimes rosberg has been lucky and managed to finish higher than he should because of crashes , retirements etc and overall hes been much more consistent.

trying to make schumacher a scapegoat is ridiculous and anyone who seriously believes

, Hulk, Sutil, Kolv, Trulli, Barrichello, Glock, Kobayashi and possibly Petrov

would do a better job is smoking crack


the way some people go on you would think schumacher designed the car and all of the upgrades

Edited by arknor, 12 September 2010 - 14:47.


#5524 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:49

Very good race by Michael. Beat at the start Sutil and Bari. Get 9th position back from Sutil. There is thread for Nico vs Michael. I don't know what man and aditya expected from 12th starting position. But, we don't mind them, they are in their usual style. LOL Every thread need jokers. Team get very got result for WCC and WDC. Period.


Thank you ivand911 and your spin ;-)

Well first of all M Schumacher was the one that was responsible for his grid position so it is a little odd to brush that fact under the carpet as if the destiny of the race was out of M Schumacher's hands.

Second of all, M Schumacher had clear air in front of him and was slower than Rosberg for pretty much every lap not just on race day, but during practice and qualifying too.

But I agree, we shouldn't be suprised by this now, and I'm not. I'm merely describing events.

So I guess it depends on what your expectations are. If being beaten by your teammate in every session and on race day is considered a good thing - I need to re-read the definition of competition.



#5525 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:50

Norbert was in very good mood. Michael was only one in top 10 , who gain 3 positions.


When you start as low as he often does, the scope for improvement tends to be bigger, no?

;-)

Edited by man, 12 September 2010 - 14:50.


#5526 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:57

Thank you ivand911 and your spin ;-)

Well first of all M Schumacher was the one that was responsible for his grid position so it is a little odd to brush that fact under the carpet as if the destiny of the race was out of M Schumacher's hands.

Second of all, M Schumacher had clear air in front of him and was slower than Rosberg for pretty much every lap not just on race day, but during practice and qualifying too.

But I agree, we shouldn't be suprised by this now, and I'm not. I'm merely describing events.

So I guess it depends on what your expectations are. If being beaten by your teammate in every session and on race day is considered a good thing - I need to re-read the definition of competition.

Don't you understand that you are on wrong thread. There is no Nico in this thread. For the last time : He was also in free air and Kubica was all the time 2 sec behind him, the same with Hulk. He wasn't faster than them. He was leading the train.


#5527 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 14:57

Second of all, M Schumacher had clear air in front of him and was slower than Rosberg for pretty much every lap not just on race day, but during practice and qualifying too.

you realise schumacher was on hard tyres
rosberg was on soft tyres


maybe you dont actually wnay an inteligent discussion with logic though

lets pretend hard tyres arent slower than soft tyres so you can have your post though eh?

no point schumacher started on hard tyres if they pit him at the same time as everyone on soft anyway

#5528 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:04

you realise schumacher was on hard tyres
rosberg was on soft tyres


maybe you dont actually wnay an inteligent discussion with logic though

lets pretend hard tyres arent slower than soft tyres so you can have your post though eh?

no point schumacher started on hard tyres if they pit him at the same time as everyone on soft anyway

Michael was on hards at the start? If this is the case, his drive was very very good. And this softs lasted forever.

Edited by ivand911, 12 September 2010 - 15:05.


#5529 arknor

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:09

Michael was on hards at the start? If this is the case, his drive was very very good. And this softs lasted forever.

someone on here said he was :p

ill try to find some photos and see if he had a greenstripe

#5530 D.M.N.

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:14

Ross Brawn on BBC F1 Forum basically quashes the Schumacher rumours and says he'll be there in 2011.

Edited by D.M.N., 12 September 2010 - 15:15.


#5531 ivand911

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:17

He start with softs according this picture: http://www.gpupdate..../162239/#162239
But this was smartest thing to do, because they lasted long. There was not advantages to start with hards. They could give him only problems at the start. But, still his drive was very good.

#5532 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:25

you realise schumacher was on hard tyres
rosberg was on soft tyres


maybe you dont actually wnay an inteligent discussion with logic though

lets pretend hard tyres arent slower than soft tyres so you can have your post though eh?

no point schumacher started on hard tyres if they pit him at the same time as everyone on soft anyway


So what have we learned from above five lines? Everything you mentioned as fact, is in fact a falsehood.

Fanatism in a nutshell.


#5533 sosidge

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:25

Ross Brawn on BBC F1 Forum basically quashes the Schumacher rumours and says he'll be there in 2011.


Team boss in "contracted driver not leaving" shocker!

Eddie Jordan's conspir-ometer has been bouncing off the scale this weekend with the comings and gongs at Mercedes. Then again, it went crazy again when Vettel slowed down...

#5534 mtknot

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:26

I don't know whats with this brackley team but they have the knack for inconsistency, one year they produce an astonishing car, the next a piece of junk O-o

#5535 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:28

Don't you understand that you are on wrong thread. There is no Nico in this thread. For the last time : He was also in free air and Kubica was all the time 2 sec behind him, the same with Hulk. He wasn't faster than them. He was leading the train.


M Schumacher was slower than Rosberg for virtually every lap of the entire weekend. M Schumacher had clear air in front of him for most of the race. Why is that so difficult to comprehend my friend? ;-)


#5536 Buttoneer

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:41

Please take the teammate discussion to the appropriate thread.

#5537 Paco

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 15:41

I don't know whats with this brackley team but they have the knack for inconsistency, one year they produce an astonishing car, the next a piece of junk O-o


You don't know what's wrong..

it's called MONEY in 2009..
it's called lack of direction at the start of the 2009 season on how they'd finish as a team and who would partner up with Brawn and at what capacity.
it's the current set of regulations banning in season testing..
it's the current set of regulations not allowing modification to the primary chassis etc.

They messed up the 2010 design mid-year in 2009 and unfortunately, under current regulations can not do anything about it.

Edited by Paco, 12 September 2010 - 15:42.


#5538 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 18:02

If I were a team owner I would rather have Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Vettel, Webber, Rosberg, Massa, Kubica, Hulk, Sutil, Kolv, Trulli, Barrichello, Glock, Kobayashi and possibly Petrov (considering his scope for improvement) in my team. That is 15 or 16 drivers that I would have preference over M Schumacher.


Half those drivers have psychological problems and definately aren't team leaders or worthy of a top seat.


#5539 man

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 18:29

Half those drivers have psychological problems and definately aren't team leaders or worthy of a top seat.


Perhaps. However, I think all with the possible exception of 1 or 2 would produce better results than M Schumacher given the same opportunities in 2011.

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#5540 eoin

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 19:08

Perhaps. However, I think all with the possible exception of 1 or 2 would produce better results than M Schumacher given the same opportunities in 2011.


Only Hulk, Sutil, Kolv, Trulli, Barrichello, Glock, Kobayashi would consider leaving there current team for Mercedes and I doubt any of them are any faster than the current subpar Schumacher. Mercedes took a gamble on Schumacher, Schumacher took a gamble on Mercedes and neither really paid off.

Edited by eoin, 12 September 2010 - 19:10.


#5541 jannyg

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 19:15

I've defended Schumi alot here, still am. If we look down the field its clear to see the two drivers notably struggling: Schumacher and Liuzzi. Both guys haven't really closed the gap to their teammates over the season, if anything the gap has increased. Both are drivers with a long hiatus from the sport. PDLR was out for a while also but he isnt being beaten to this affect.



For example if we look at how Hulkenburg has closed the gap to Barrichello in qualifying and race trim since Canada, then it kinda shows me that its more than just tires affecting MS. Generally this season it has looked like the drivers with past year tire experience were benefitting this season, but Hulkenburg is proving that the gap can be closed. With Liuzzi its more likely that he's not good enough. So why is the gap between MS and NR increasing?

If Mercedes does produce a beast next year, i cant see how MS is finding 5tenths to challenge NR.

#5542 JackTorrance

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 19:16

I have a hunch Eddie Jordan will quit F1 coverage. Thank God!!

#5543 eoin

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 19:26

I've defended Schumi alot here, still am. If we look down the field its clear to see the two drivers notably struggling: Schumacher and Liuzzi. Both guys haven't really closed the gap to their teammates over the season, if anything the gap has increased. Both are drivers with a long hiatus from the sport. PDLR was out for a while also but he isnt being beaten to this affect.



For example if we look at how Hulkenburg has closed the gap to Barrichello in qualifying and race trim since Canada, then it kinda shows me that its more than just tires affecting MS. Generally this season it has looked like the drivers with past year tire experience were benefitting this season, but Hulkenburg is proving that the gap can be closed. With Liuzzi its more likely that he's not good enough. So why is the gap between MS and NR increasing?

If Mercedes does produce a beast next year, i cant see how MS is finding 5tenths to challenge NR.


Where are you getting 5 tenths? He lost 15s over 53 laps, which is an average of .28 per lap but it is probably closer to .18 as he would of been 5s behind after the first lap. It's still a big gap in F1 terms, but there is no need to over state it. However in qualifying it's usually a tenth more.
As for Hulk, he is a rookie up against a guy that isn't among the top teir of drivers. Rosberg on the other hand- his speed is still a little unknown but he does seem to be fast everywhere and in all conditions. I think he could be as fast anyone out there but only time will tell that.

Edited by eoin, 12 September 2010 - 19:30.


#5544 jannyg

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 20:03

Where are you getting 5 tenths? He lost 15s over 53 laps, which is an average of .28 per lap but it is probably closer to .18 as he would of been 5s behind after the first lap. It's still a big gap in F1 terms, but there is no need to over state it. However in qualifying it's usually a tenth more.
As for Hulk, he is a rookie up against a guy that isn't among the top teir of drivers. Rosberg on the other hand- his speed is still a little unknown but he does seem to be fast everywhere and in all conditions. I think he could be as fast anyone out there but only time will tell that.


Yeah sorry maybe 5 tenths was overstepping it, i was only looking at some of the qualfying times since Bahrain via the BBC site. But alot of the times that Rosberg has beaten MS in qualy the gap has been abit large especially if you look at the fastest lap classifications.


Barrichello may not be top tier but im merely stating that Hulkenberg is proving that a driver who was struggling initially can improve over the season. MS could have at least been abit more closer to NR at this stage of the season. So it leads me to think Schumacher is struggling with something other than tyres. Just my opinion

#5545 britishtrident

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 20:10

Ross Brawn on BBC F1 Forum basically quashes the Schumacher rumours and says he'll be there in 2011.


I won't bother quoting Mandy Rice Davies

#5546 ivand911

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:06

I am sorry that some guys come here disappointed. But,this is their problem and their problem only. I, like Michael fan accept his performance this year, like I accepted it in his 15 years before 2006. Before race I said I would be happy if he get in top 10. And guess what, I am happy now. Michael was in the points, which are awarded to the good drivers. For drivers who have place in F1. You can speak BS , as much as you want ,this will not change the fact. He is not last in WDC, they will get maybe 4th place in WCC. For this I think they need 25-30 points more to be sure. He is one place behind his teammate in WDC. But, I am sure if even he was now with 10 points more than Nico , there would be people coming here and telling that this is not enough for 7WDC and he need to retire. To all disappointed guys, we don't share your sentiment and we don't care. As I said before: good or bad ,on the track.

Edited by ivand911, 13 September 2010 - 07:07.


#5547 Frans

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:14

Schumacher doesn't like tires and fast turning cars .... hmmmm, sounds like a Belgium joke no? :rotfl:

#5548 Owen

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:28

Interesting comments on the Red Button forum by Eddie Irvine about Schumacher (in relation to Massa). :eek:

#5549 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:37

I've defended Schumi alot here, still am. If we look down the field its clear to see the two drivers notably struggling: Schumacher and Liuzzi. Both guys haven't really closed the gap to their teammates over the season, if anything the gap has increased. Both are drivers with a long hiatus from the sport. PDLR was out for a while also but he isnt being beaten to this affect.



For example if we look at how Hulkenburg has closed the gap to Barrichello in qualifying and race trim since Canada, then it kinda shows me that its more than just tires affecting MS. Generally this season it has looked like the drivers with past year tire experience were benefitting this season, but Hulkenburg is proving that the gap can be closed. With Liuzzi its more likely that he's not good enough. So why is the gap between MS and NR increasing?

If Mercedes does produce a beast next year, i cant see how MS is finding 5tenths to challenge NR.


I personally don't think it has increased. It has remained static with a few exceptions in Schumacher's favour; Barcelona, Monaco, Turkey and Spa.

In Germany they were very closely matched throughout.
In Hungary, IIRC Schumacher had the faster lap.
Spa - Schumacher had a slight edge in pace and Nico only got past when his wet race set up favoured his car in the conditions.

In terms of pace I don't Schumacher is that far behind considering but his qualifying pace is probably 50% at fault for his woes. There's no reason for him to quit, considering that the prospects - on paper at least - look better for 2011.

It's quite funny, all the haters and critics come out of the woodwork and revel in Schumacher's woes when things aren't going to plan but this forum is eerily quiet when he has a half decent showing. So he only needs to quit when he is doing bad but should stay when he is doing half well? Very balanced... :rolleyes:

I'm glad some of you don't run your own F1 teams!

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 13 September 2010 - 08:43.


#5550 rog

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:43

And to prove my words, there were often voices in his former team Williams Toyota, saying that they were not quite happy with him. I remember Frank saying last year that they had better car than results or something like that.



You misunderstood this. The team made some errors and lost important points (especially early in the year) The team was very happy with him.

In Hungary, IIRC Schumacher had the faster lap.



Lol because the pit stop was messed up and he was out of the race. He was much faster in Hungary.

Edited by rog, 13 September 2010 - 08:44.