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#5651 metz

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 19:56

Bad luck, they didn't reach their target. MGP team reach their possible target(4th place). With such car it is good achievement.

A team that was No.1 last year set themselves a target to be 4th? :eek: Wow!
Anyone that claims that this year went according to plan is just plain... :drunk:

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#5652 Murdoch

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 19:57

Bad luck, they didn't reach their target. MGP team reach their possible target(4th place). With such car it is good achievement.


Bad luck?

Are you seriously saying that last years champions set themselves a target of 4th place?........

Interesting thought, i guess they 'might' have done.....

#5653 ivand911

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 20:01

You are surprised? McLaren last year? I said possible target, even if they both have total 200 points , it is still 4th place. Who say it was according to plan? You? With this car , this results.

Edited by ivand911, 20 September 2010 - 20:02.


#5654 arknor

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 20:13

Regardless whether the car looks good on paper or toilet paper, it doesn't address the issue of Merc being a one driver team in terms of bringing home the bacon.

Fighting with one hand tied behind your back is not reccomended in this competitive day and age.

well seeing as this is the schumacher thread i totally agree get rid of rosberg

#5655 metz

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 20:35

You are surprised? McLaren last year? I said possible target, even if they both have total 200 points , it is still 4th place. Who say it was according to plan? You? With this car , this results.

I think you missed the point.
The car did not turn out as planned.
You can not set your targets AFTER you know how good the car is.

#5656 Raelene

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 21:05

More talk that Schumacher may be off:

http://joesaward.wor...ael-schumacher/


I loved how Joe wrote this story - immediately after writing a story about "how to start an F1 Rumour".

this one might be true, but Joe is a big MS hater, so for him it might be more hope than anything.

#5657 as65p

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 21:34

I loved how Joe wrote this story - immediately after writing a story about "how to start an F1 Rumour".

this one might be true, but Joe is a big MS hater, so for him it might be more hope than anything.


His hope, if he's such an MS hater, would be that Schumacher drives another 5 years in current form.

Phrasing it as careful as possible: I think even his most ardent fans would agree that the comeback so far has not enhanced his legacy. Everything is build on hopes for next season. I guess in 2011 the theme will be that it was a 3-year plan from the start, so we should wait for 2012 when he'll finally deliver. In 2013, it will declared a great shame that Mercedes didn't extend his contract, just when he was about to come good... :p

#5658 Raelene

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 21:41

His hope, if he's such an MS hater, would be that Schumacher drives another 5 years in current form.

Phrasing it as careful as possible: I think even his most ardent fans would agree that the comeback so far has not enhanced his legacy. Everything is build on hopes for next season. I guess in 2011 the theme will be that it was a 3-year plan from the start, so we should wait for 2012 when he'll finally deliver. In 2013, it will declared a great shame that Mercedes didn't extend his contract, just when he was about to come good... :p



I could just see the irony in Joe starting a rumour story just after he'd written about it.

I agree, it hasn't enhanced his legacy, but unlike some, I also don't think it has ruined his legacy.

I think MS should continue, but if things don't improve QUICKLY next year compared to his teammate , then he needs to give it away - I'd only give him 3 races next year.

#5659 F1Johnny

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 21:59

I could just see the irony in Joe starting a rumour story just after he'd written about it.

I agree, it hasn't enhanced his legacy, but unlike some, I also don't think it has ruined his legacy.

I think MS should continue, but if things don't improve QUICKLY next year compared to his teammate , then he needs to give it away - I'd only give him 3 races next year.


A mid season withdrawal would damage his legacy. A graceful decision to withdraw at the end of the season would not IMO.

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#5660 Raelene

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 22:27

A mid season withdrawal would damage his legacy. A graceful decision to withdraw at the end of the season would not IMO.


I disagree - I don't see how his "legacy" can be destroyed - he achieved what he acheived. Just because his comeback hasn't been a success, doesn't dimish his PAST achievements - no one can take them away from him

#5661 Nitropower

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 22:32

Michael thought he'd have a dominant car straightforward. Now he's seen it's not that easy to build a championship winning car he might be reconsidering his comeback.

Rosberg has proved him slow for non-TC cars, and there are no excuses other than not being fit or having been out for too long, cos it's Rosberg's rookie season in a MGP car as well.

Edited by Nitropower, 20 September 2010 - 22:33.


#5662 Sakae

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 23:54

Car engineering are the same group; they need fresh blood in.



#5663 ViMaMo

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 02:05

Has Schumacher ever driven a understeering car before? MGP are seriously lacking good engineers.

#5664 JackTorrance

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 02:20

I disagree - I don't see how his "legacy" can be destroyed - he achieved what he acheived. Just because his comeback hasn't been a success, doesn't dimish his PAST achievements - no one can take them away from him




Exactly. :up:

This whole wave of noises Shumi is past it, from both F1 'fans' and some motorsport 'journalist' are actually secret declarations of love for Schumacher and his return to F1. What else would they be writing/complaining about. Petrov? Buemi? Bruno Senna?

#5665 cindy4ever33

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 02:28

Exactly. :up:

This whole wave of noises Shumi is past it, from both F1 'fans' and some motorsport 'journalist' are actually secret declarations of love for Schumacher and his return to F1. What else would they be writing/complaining about. Petrov? Buemi? Bruno Senna?


Agree :up:


#5666 F1Johnny

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 02:42

I disagree - I don't see how his "legacy" can be destroyed - he achieved what he acheived. Just because his comeback hasn't been a success, doesn't dimish his PAST achievements - no one can take them away from him


I didn't say it would destroy it. I think it would damage it though. If he tests over the winter and can't get a feel for whether or not he has it or not and comes back and is beaten by Rosberg as badly as he is now, IMO it will damage his legacy. The better option IMO is to stop at the end of this year.

He of course still has 5 races and winter testing to make that decision.

#5667 Raelene

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 03:13

I didn't say it would destroy it. I think it would damage it though. If he tests over the winter and can't get a feel for whether or not he has it or not and comes back and is beaten by Rosberg as badly as he is now, IMO it will damage his legacy. The better option IMO is to stop at the end of this year.

He of course still has 5 races and winter testing to make that decision.


How can you damage something that actually happened?

#5668 tormave

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 03:58

Has Schumacher ever driven a understeering car before? MGP are seriously lacking good engineers.

There's no such thing. MGP engineers are well capable to make the understeer or oversteer as they please. Problem is, with the narrower B'stone fronts they'll make the car slower by making it understeer less as they need to take off back downforce to accomplish this. Adding front DF won't do the trick as according to Ross there is a limit on the grip you can get from these tyres beyond which adding downforce will only serve to increase the drag.

#5669 F1Johnny

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 04:27

How can you damage something that actually happened?


Settle down. A driver's legacy carries on and informs those that never saw them race.

I'm not saying he didn't win 91 GPs. If things don't get better next year and Rosberg beats him again, there are a whole host of people that didn't see him race, only heard about him and that will only remember him losing to Rosberg.

I didn't like him but regard him as one of the best 5 F1 drivers ever, easily. But as Clint Eastwood/Harry Callahan/Dirty Harry said " A man's got to know his limitations".

#5670 Raelene

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 04:59

Settle down. A driver's legacy carries on and informs those that never saw them race.

I'm not saying he didn't win 91 GPs. If things don't get better next year and Rosberg beats him again, there are a whole host of people that didn't see him race, only heard about him and that will only remember him losing to Rosberg.

I didn't like him but regard him as one of the best 5 F1 drivers ever, easily. But as Clint Eastwood/Harry Callahan/Dirty Harry said " A man's got to know his limitations".


I agree he should know when he should give up - but still totally disagree with you about his legacy. That will continue on

#5671 ivand911

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 06:39

If we discuss Michael leaving F1, then all behind him need to leave too? What is their excuse? Age, not in F1 for last 3 years? Michael is in 9th now, well in the picture. There is around 10 things, when you sum them ,you see why his teammate is faster. For me, their race results is 6,5 races for Nico and 7,5 for Michael. Not bad. Races for Michael are: Australia(he was 4th when Alonso/Button hit him, Nico was around 9th then), Spain, Monaco,Turkey, Canada(he was 3rd(before pit stop and Kubica situation,5th after pitstop), Nico 16th) , Valencia(3rd before stupid team decision to pit him, easily 6-7th in the end), Hungary, 0,5 for Spa for both. Three bad luck races and here, we bury the man. It is not like his own mistake, like Alonso and Lewis in last two races. OK, Nico also have bad luck in Hungary, then 7,5 :6,5 for him.

Edited by ivand911, 21 September 2010 - 06:58.


#5672 JackTorrance

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 06:41

But as Clint Eastwood/Harry Callahan/Dirty Harry said " A man's got to know his limitations".


Ive seen Hamilton reach his limitations quite a lot.

Ive seen Alonso reach his limitations in some races this year too.

Ive seen Vettel exploring his limitations quite a lot.

Ive seen Massa being his rear end handed to him by Alonso in a way that makes Schumacher vs Rosberg pretty good.

Or check out the stats of Petrov vs Kubica.

Yet none of them get bashed and told:youre past it.

That makes this whole tainted legacy nonsense a rather opportunistic non-argument.

Youre looking for reasons Schumacher isnt trashing Rosberg, idd say go with the explanations given by Ross Brawn - never a man known to be polishing the truth - and by Michael himself:

- The car has characteristics he doesnt like.

- He cant get the best out of the tyres.

- Testing ban unables him to get to the bottom of it.

- The car is hardly a front runner.

- Has various design mistakes.

End of story.

Edited by JackTorrance, 21 September 2010 - 06:47.


#5673 Clatter

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 07:23

Ive seen Hamilton reach his limitations quite a lot.

Ive seen Alonso reach his limitations in some races this year too.

Ive seen Vettel exploring his limitations quite a lot.

Ive seen Massa being his rear end handed to him by Alonso in a way that makes Schumacher vs Rosberg pretty good.

Or check out the stats of Petrov vs Kubica.

Yet none of them get bashed and told:youre past it.

That makes this whole tainted legacy nonsense a rather opportunistic non-argument.

Youre looking for reasons Schumacher isnt trashing Rosberg, idd say go with the explanations given by Ross Brawn - never a man known to be polishing the truth - and by Michael himself:

- The car has characteristics he doesnt like.

- He cant get the best out of the tyres.

- Testing ban unables him to get to the bottom of it.

- The car is hardly a front runner.

- Has various design mistakes.

End of story.


Rubbish. They have all been well and truly bashed for their errors, but no they have not been told they are past it as they are not in the same situation as MS. Your not looking for reasons why he is losing the battle, but for excuses. IMHO none of those excuses are valid for someone of his experience and everything points to his best days being behind him.

#5674 ivand911

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 07:30

Rubbish. They have all been well and truly bashed for their errors, but no they have not been told they are past it as they are not in the same situation as MS. Your not looking for reasons why he is losing the battle, but for excuses. IMHO none of those excuses are valid for someone of his experience and everything points to his best days being behind him.

I wonder,why you a looking for reasons and not for excuses? :rotfl: For me it is one thing. Good opinion though. Even with best days behind him he have place in F1. According to WDC he is better than 50-60% of F1 drivers now. I don't need reasons and excuses, my guy is on the track.


#5675 Clatter

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 07:36

I wonder,why you a looking for reasons and not for excuses? :rotfl: For me it is one thing. Good opinion though. Even with best days behind him he have place in F1. According to WDC he is better than 50-60% of F1 drivers now. I don't need reasons and excuses, my guy is on the track.


If your happy with that then that is fine, but considering the pre-season hype about his return you cannot deny that he is underperforming, and the excuses his fans are now producing are the same ones used to ridicule his team mates in the past. Personally things are going pretty much as expected and I don't honestly think it will change next year. I could however be proven wrong.

Barring a miracle this is going to be his first winless full season. Bet that wasn't in plan.

#5676 ivand911

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 07:43

If your happy with that then that is fine, but considering the pre-season hype about his return you cannot deny that he is underperforming, and the excuses his fans are now producing are the same ones used to ridicule his team mates in the past. Personally things are going pretty much as expected and I don't honestly think it will change next year. I could however be proven wrong.

Barring a miracle this is going to be his first winless full season. Bet that wasn't in plan.

You know in the end will be only one. Everybody else plans go to the sewer.


#5677 britishtrident

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:06

Settle down. A driver's legacy carries on and informs those that never saw them race.

I'm not saying he didn't win 91 GPs. If things don't get better next year and Rosberg beats him again, there are a whole host of people that didn't see him race, only heard about him and that will only remember him losing to Rosberg.

I didn't like him but regard him as one of the best 5 F1 drivers ever, easily. But as Clint Eastwood/Harry Callahan/Dirty Harry said " A man's got to know his limitations".



Some drivers legends live on others are sooner or later seen through and other seem to grow. Schumacher's legend has been slowly building up tarnish since the early days.

#5678 britishtrident

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:08

You know in the end will be only one. Everybody else plans go to the sewer.


"We are all in the gutter but some of use are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

#5679 ivand911

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:26

Schumacher's legend has been slowly building up tarnish since the early days.

And you see this from the gutter? :rotfl: Sorry, couldn't resist.


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#5680 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:27

Michael thought he'd have a dominant car straightforward. Now he's seen it's not that easy to build a championship winning car he might be reconsidering his comeback.

Rosberg has proved him slow for non-TC cars, and there are no excuses other than not being fit or having been out for too long, cos it's Rosberg's rookie season in a MGP car as well.


Schumacher knew it was going to be a slow car and didn't make any great predictions after his first few initial tests. He only predicted fighting for the championship BEFORE driving the car.

Rosberg may be a rookie to the MGP team but let's not forget that he didn't have 3 years off, was race fresh, had no race rust and was fully acclimatised to the new generation of Grand Prix cars.

Everything was in Rosberg's favour.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 21 September 2010 - 08:28.


#5681 Chezrome

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:37

Ive seen Hamilton reach his limitations quite a lot.

Ive seen Alonso reach his limitations in some races this year too.

Ive seen Vettel exploring his limitations quite a lot.

Ive seen Massa being his rear end handed to him by Alonso in a way that makes Schumacher vs Rosberg pretty good.

Or check out the stats of Petrov vs Kubica.

Yet none of them get bashed and told:youre past it.

That makes this whole tainted legacy nonsense a rather opportunistic non-argument.

Youre looking for reasons Schumacher isnt trashing Rosberg, idd say go with the explanations given by Ross Brawn - never a man known to be polishing the truth - and by Michael himself:

- The car has characteristics he doesnt like.

- He cant get the best out of the tyres.

- Testing ban unables him to get to the bottom of it.

- The car is hardly a front runner.

- Has various design mistakes.

End of story.


And perhaps Rosberg - and Sutil and Kubica and Massa - are much better than we all thought. I am pretty much convinced that the level of drivers in F1 of the last five years is higher than ever.

#5682 Clatter

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:41

And perhaps Rosberg - and Sutil and Kubica and Massa - are much better than we all thought. I am pretty much convinced that the level of drivers in F1 of the last five years is higher than ever.


I think the level of drivers has always been pretty high, the biggest difference now is how close the performance of the cars are compared to 5+ years ago.

#5683 slaveceru

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 09:51

I think the level of drivers has always been pretty high, the biggest difference now is how close the performance of the cars are compared to 5+ years ago.

And this is probably due to the limiting testing and not the rules in general. The rules have always changed in F1 but we have for the first time in the history of F1 limiting testing. With this rule the rookies and the returners to the sport are affected much more than it used to be in previous years. So if Kimi returns we will see how he can cope with the short leave in comparison to his team mate then we can more accurately evaluate Schumacher performance this and next year.

Edited by slaveceru, 21 September 2010 - 09:54.


#5684 Chezrome

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 09:55

I think the level of drivers has always been pretty high, the biggest difference now is how close the performance of the cars are compared to 5+ years ago.


True, the cars are equal between teams and in one team. However, nobody would raise an eyebrow in the 60's, 70's, 80, 90's if one driver was seconds slower than the other driver in the same car. Now eyebrows are raised if a driver (for example Schumacher is continuously just 0.3 slower during a whole race. I am everytime amazed how incredibly consistent the F1 drivers are in putting down laptimes within 0.2 seconds of eachother. Even with the full tank with which they start. That capacity - driving lap after lap in the same bracket - used to be the strength of Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna and later Schumacher. Now 'everybody' seems to be able to do it.

I've never done research into this, but I have the feeling that if you could find consecutive laptimes of races in the 90's, you would see much more variation in the laptimes.




#5685 arknor

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 10:34

There's no such thing. MGP engineers are well capable to make the understeer or oversteer as they please. Problem is, with the narrower B'stone fronts they'll make the car slower by making it understeer less as they need to take off back downforce to accomplish this. Adding front DF won't do the trick as according to Ross there is a limit on the grip you can get from these tyres beyond which adding downforce will only serve to increase the drag.

dont believe this at all maybe if the car was more neutral but its not we know its an understeering car from the off regardless of the tyres and the centre of gravity is to high , the car has problems getting tyres to temprature and then when it does problems keeping them at temprature.

weve also been lead to believe the car has a very narrow setup range which would further reduce the possibility of making the car understeer or oversteer.

schumacher obviously has to make big sacrafices to try and get the car to feel like he wants it look at the start of the year when he was experimenting often he would have barely any rear end grip at all and it clearly showed even on the slow corners.

i dont believe theres much rosberg or schumacher can do with setups on this car

#5686 Hacklerf

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 11:18

Schumacher will be there next year, of this there is no doubt

#5687 Tsarwash

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 11:48

The tide of Schumacher is beginning to turn. Not amongst the moderates, but the real 'blind' fans who used to think the sun rose out of his behind. Schumacher was undoubtedly VERY good, but some people forget that he had an extremely good team around him too. The best car designer, the best race tactician and the best team manager. Also he had a contractially tied number two driver for five of his championships. People who would hold the rest of the cars up, so that Schumacher got a free pit stop. It is Schuey's talent that got him to the very front, but once he was there, he had all sort of advantages over his challengers. You have to respect Hill, Alonso and Hekkinen for beating him in such circumstances.

And I haven't even mention the percieved Fia bias of the time yet, either. :p

#5688 arknor

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 12:02

The tide of Schumacher is beginning to turn. Not amongst the moderates, but the real 'blind' fans who used to think the sun rose out of his behind. Schumacher was undoubtedly VERY good, but some people forget that he had an extremely good team around him too. The best car designer, the best race tactician and the best team manager. Also he had a contractially tied number two driver for five of his championships. People who would hold the rest of the cars up, so that Schumacher got a free pit stop. It is Schuey's talent that got him to the very front, but once he was there, he had all sort of advantages over his challengers. You have to respect Hill, Alonso and Hekkinen for beating him in such circumstances.

And I haven't even mention the percieved Fia bias of the time yet, either. :p

was it wiliams who holded someone up so mclaren good win?

its hardly an unknown fact that irvine and coulthard were basicly rear gunners

coulthard wasnt a #2 driver? next youll be saying hakkinen was crap

Edited by arknor, 21 September 2010 - 12:05.


#5689 Tsarwash

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 12:12

And if Schumacher stays next year, he might find himself getting beat by Petrov and Sutil regularly, (I mean more than this year). This year is pretty stunningly bad. I mean, Rosberg and Kubica are fighting at 110 ish points, and teammates Sch are on 46 and Petrov on 19. He is doing better than Petrov, but not by that much really. He is closer to Petrov than he is to Roberg or Kubica.

#5690 Tsarwash

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 12:18

coulthard wasnt a #2 driver? next youll be saying hakkinen was crap

Please stop putting words or potential words in my mouth. I didn't say anything of the kind, on either count.

was it wiliams who holded someone up so mclaren good win?

I have got no idea what you are trying to say. I do not understand.


#5691 Lifew12

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 12:19

Schumacher will be there next year, of this there is no doubt


As a race driver? I would say that there is a good deal of doubt.

#5692 F1Johnny

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 13:52

Ive seen Hamilton reach his limitations quite a lot.

Ive seen Alonso reach his limitations in some races this year too.

Ive seen Vettel exploring his limitations quite a lot.

Ive seen Massa being his rear end handed to him by Alonso in a way that makes Schumacher vs Rosberg pretty good.

Or check out the stats of Petrov vs Kubica.

Yet none of them get bashed and told:youre past it.

That makes this whole tainted legacy nonsense a rather opportunistic non-argument.

Youre looking for reasons Schumacher isnt trashing Rosberg, idd say go with the explanations given by Ross Brawn - never a man known to be polishing the truth - and by Michael himself:

- The car has characteristics he doesnt like.

- He cant get the best out of the tyres.

- Testing ban unables him to get to the bottom of it.

- The car is hardly a front runner.

- Has various design mistakes.

End of story.


Is this a serious position that you're taking?

Each of the drivers you pointed out does get bashed for the mistakes they make. The thing is they are consstently and significantly faster than MS this year.

I just don't get why you guys take this so personally. Can you imagine any other driver giving the list of excuses for not being fast that you have listed above. They would be drawn over the coals by this board including you.


#5693 valachus

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 14:58

I'm not saying he didn't win 91 GPs. If things don't get better next year and Rosberg beats him again, there are a whole host of people that didn't see him race, only heard about him and that will only remember him losing to Rosberg.


5-to-10-year-olds?

#5694 F1Johnny

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:36

5-to-10-year-olds?


He did win his first 2 championships 16 and 15 years ago. But a legacy is something that should stand the test of time and inform fans that didn't have the opportunity to see them race. I didn't see Jackie Stewart or Jim Clark or even much of Niki Lauda, but it feels as if I didn't need to. So yes the 5 to 10 year olds.

There will be a group of fans that will remember that he came back and failed if he doesn't do well next year. Of course he is the most successful driver in F1 and that will never change IMO, but he is doing himself a disservice by continuing at a level below his usual standard.

#5695 JackTorrance

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:37

Rubbish. They have all been well and truly bashed for their errors, but no they have not been told they are past it as they are not in the same situation as MS. Your not looking for reasons why he is losing the battle, but for excuses. IMHO none of those excuses are valid for someone of his experience and everything points to his best days being behind him.


You want to say none of those other drivers are told they are past it because theyve never reached Schumachers height? Id go along with that explanation.

And perhaps you didnt read it well enough, as i said the reasons mentioned by Brawn and Schumacher are an excuse for his current form.




. Schumacher's legend has been slowly building up tarnish since the early days.


You bring this as being a fact, while reading the mixed views of this thread alone, its a very debatable stance.

Id say Schumachers legend would be a bit tarnished if someone would step up and starts to match his performances. Like winning 5 championships in a row. Guiding Ferrari to that immense form. And since that is unlikely to happen in the next 300 years Schumacher can qualify P-last with Rosberg P1 for the next 10 years. Hell still be the best ever F1 driver in history.


#5696 hannu

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:03

I think one thing that is different from ms´s old days is that nowdays people in the middlepack and even in last places don´t give up and just let him past.
Sometimes it was just ridicilious how easily he was let past. Now they fight.

Edited by hannu, 21 September 2010 - 17:06.


#5697 Clatter

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:42

You want to say none of those other drivers are told they are past it because theyve never reached Schumachers height? Id go along with that explanation.


You probably would go for that twist of the words, but you know full well that that is not the explanation.


#5698 Timstr11

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:48

Schumachers' failure to match Rosberg's pace is all about tyres and him lacking the ability to drive around certain characteristics, while Rosberg can.

Schumacher is from the era of almost unlimited R&D spending, when tyre suppliers could spend to out-develop each other.
During the Schumacher era, the rules allowed tyre manufacturers to research and test huge numbers of constructions, shapes and compounds to suit a specific car and driver. And we all know the extremely close relationship between Ferrari and Bridgestone, which allowed them to design tyres to suit Ferrari and Schumacher, throughout the year.

Now fast-forward to 2010, to the Resource Restricted era, where ALL drivers have to make do with the one 4-compound spec tyre.
There's no way for the tyre supplier to design their tyre towards a car AND at the same time, there are very limited possibilities for the car designers to make in-season changes to better suit the tyres. You're basically stuck with what you have.

The above puts Schumacher's past dominance into a new perspective.
It shows that with the team around him, at the time they had the ability to design (and re-design if needed) a car-tyre package to suit his needs.
However, if you give him a car-tyre package that's somewhat outside of what he's comfortable with, he will have difficulties to drive around it.

My conclusion is that Rosberg HAS the ability to drive around the current negative characteristics of the W01 to an extent, while Schumacher does not.

Schumacher was good, but not as good as we were all made to believe during the era when teams and tyre suppliers could engineer their way out of a handling problem with almost no technical rules restrictions. Most of the credit for his dominating speed should go to the high-dollar and clever engineering during the Ferrari-Bridgestone alliance.

Pirelli
Therefore, Schumacher can only hope and pray that the Pirellis currently being designed will suit his style.
He will find out at the first test after Abu Dhabi and I think his final decision to retire will depend on that test.
No wonder Ross Brawn is sending subliminal messages to Pirelli to design a tyre package with strong fronts, which apparently better allows Schumacher to do his thing...

#5699 Clatter

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:51

Schumachers' failure to match Rosberg's pace is all about tyres and him lacking the ability to drive around certain characteristics, while Rosberg can.

Schumacher is from the era of almost unlimited R&D spending, when tyre suppliers could spend to out-develop each other.
During the Schumacher era, the rules allowed tyre manufacturers to research and test huge numbers of constructions, shapes and compounds to suit a specific car and driver. And we all know the extremely close relationship between Ferrari and Bridgestone, which allowed them to design tyres to suit Ferrari and Schumacher, throughout the year.

Now fast-forward to 2010, to the Resource Restricted era, where ALL drivers have to make do with the one 4-compound spec tyre.
There's no way for the tyre supplier to design their tyre towards a car AND at the same time, there are very limited possibilities for the car designers to make in-season changes to better suit the tyres. You're basically stuck with what you have.

The above puts Schumacher's past dominance into a new perspective.
It shows that with the team around him, at the time they had the ability to design (and re-design if needed) a car-tyre package to suit his needs.
However, if you give him a car-tyre package that's somewhat outside of what he's comfortable with, he will have difficulties to drive around it.

My conclusion is that Rosberg HAS the ability to drive around the current negative characteristics of the W01 to an extent, while Schumacher does not.

Schumacher was good, but not as good as we were all made to believe during the era when teams and tyre suppliers could engineer their way out of a handling problem with almost no technical rules restrictions. Most of the credit for his dominating speed should go to the high-dollar and clever engineering during the Ferrari-Bridgestone alliance.

Pirelli
Therefore, Schumacher can only hope and pray that the Pirellis currently being designed will suit his style.
He will find out at the first test after Abu Dhabi and I think his final decision to retire will depend on that test.
No wonder Ross Brawn is sending subliminal messages to Pirelli to design a tyre package with strong fronts, which apparently better allows Schumacher to do his thing...


So you don't think being out of the game for 3 years has anything to with it?


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#5700 Murdoch

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:53

It was always said that Schumacher could drive round problems with his car, unlike his team mates, this was one of the reasons why he was so special (which it might of been back in the day).

So, whats happened to that ability?