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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#5901 ivand911

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 14:47

Now that I see the times, he was considerably faster than Rosberg after the 2nd pit-stop. Did he change tires?

I think yes, he put softs.
http://www.formula1....stest_laps.html
http://www.formula1....op_summary.html
First stop slower 2,5sec from Nico, this is why he get behind Hidfeld.

Edited by ivand911, 26 September 2010 - 14:52.


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#5902 ivand911

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 14:49

He was losing two seconds in the first stint. He was pushing BArri hard and then his pace dropped immensely. He might have destroyed the tires in trying to overtake Barri.

After Webber overtake him, he lost speed, maybe he made flat spot on the tyres?


#5903 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 14:50

Did he change tires?


The TV images only cut to the moment the nose change ended. So i don't know if he changed tires again.

#5904 Mastah

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:05

Eddie Jordan: "I would sack Michael now, he's clearly not up to the job".

#5905 Collective

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:15

What I see is that Rosberg is able to extract the tenths of second needed to be ahead of the Williams, Force India and Sauber cars at all times, while Schumi is always between them getting in trouble. His pace after Webber passed him was beyond ridiculous.

#5906 Massa_f1

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:17

:mad:

Eddie Jordan: "I would sack Michael now, he's clearly not up to the job".



I would sackt EJ on the spot if i was the BBC

#5907 metz

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:19

Eddie Jordan: "I would sack Michael now, he's clearly not up to the job".

:eek: This from the guy that took credit for engineering his comeback?
Eddie just likes to be quoted.

#5908 man

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:19

Unfortunately from Mercedes GP perspective, another pathetic performance from M Schumacher today.

He failed to do his team and car justice yet again.

Still, at least he can sell hats and tee-shirts. ;-)

Edited by man, 26 September 2010 - 15:20.


#5909 Amrl

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:20

"Just being a mediocre driver has never been my ambition. That's not my style." - Michael Schumacher

#5910 ivand911

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:21

What I see is that Rosberg is able to extract the tenths of second needed to be ahead of the Williams, Force India and Sauber cars at all times, while Schumi is always between them getting in trouble. His pace after Webber passed him was beyond ridiculous.

But, he was faster than Nico in last stint? Why, and why he was slow after Webber overtake him?
http://www.fia.com/e...ace-history.pdf


#5911 Massa_f1

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:24

Unfortunately from Mercedes GP perspective, another pathetic performance from M Schumacher today.

He failed to do his team and car justice yet again.

Still, at least he can sell hats and tee-shirts. ;-)



How is getting pushed into the wall by Koba his fault he would of eased a few points today if it wasent for that.

#5912 iakhtar

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:24

But, he was faster than Nico in last stint? Why, and why he was slow after Webber overtake him?
http://www.fia.com/e...ace-history.pdf


he was faster when he had fresh tyres slower when rears were gone basically

#5913 topical

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:25

Eddie Jordan: "I would sack Michael now, he's clearly not up to the job".


:rotfl: I think Eddie will never get over losing MS to Benetton after one race in 1991.
Still, it is clear that MS is only retaining his seat for marketing reasons and/or to save face for Brawn and Haug, who seemed so sure early in the season that we would 'soon' see the real Michael. Rosberg is owning him almost as much as Kubica is owning Petrov.

By the way, where's that moron Wili Weber these days? Last year he told us that if MS got in the Ferrari he would easily be 0.3.-0.5 faster than Kimi or Massa, and before this season started informed us that MS was still the best and fittest driver on the grid and could race till he was 50 no problem. Haven't heard much from him since then...

#5914 topical

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:27

"Just being a mediocre driver has never been my ambition. That's not my style." - Michael Schumacher


Sometimes the reality does not quite measure up to our ambitions, Michael. ;)

#5915 iakhtar

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:28

:rotfl: I think Eddie will never get over losing MS to Benetton after one race in 1991.
Still, it is clear that MS is only retaining his seat for marketing reasons and/or to save face for Brawn and Haug, who seemed so sure early in the season that we would 'soon' see the real Michael. Rosberg is owning him almost as much as Kubica is owning Petrov.

By the way, where's that moron Wili Weber these days? Last year he told us that if MS got in the Ferrari he would easily be 0.3.-0.5 faster than Kimi or Massa, and before this season started informed us that MS was still the best and fittest driver on the grid and could race till he was 50 no problem. Haven't heard much from him since then...


To be fair WW would have been a moron if he didn't make those claims, it's his job to oversell.

#5916 ivand911

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:31

he was faster when he had fresh tyres slower when rears were gone basically

Maybe the tyres he start race were used more in Qualy? And they finished quickly? Or when he tried to pass Bari he destroy them. And his tyres was not much fresher than Nico's on last stint?

Edited by ivand911, 26 September 2010 - 15:33.


#5917 FBJim

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:34

Just to point out to so many who screamed for MS's blood and to replace him/put Heidfeld into the car that Heidfeld has had these 2 days handed to him by a rookie by a far greater distance than Rosberg to MS.

hahahaha, Schumacher fans, unable to compare his results favorably with his teammates, are now comparing them to another driver in a much worse car. Good on yall.

#5918 iakhtar

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:40

Maybe the tyres he start race were used more in Qualy? And they finished quickly? Or when he tried to pass Bari he destroy them.


It's a combination of the car and his driving style that's causing his tyre issues, all season he has had a rear tyre wear/traction problem, Mercedes has tried to counter this with extreme setups which has seemingly made things worse. It's something that cannot be adapted to when the setup window is so compromised. The other alternative would be to completely change his driving style to be more like NR which is probably far easier said than done. All of these issues aside there's also no way to tell how much speed he has lost from his previous career, adding all these factors together makes for one miserable season in terms of performance.

#5919 aditya-now

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 15:56

Something must have happened in his stints on softs : either he completely destroyed the tires in a few laps or he had some damage (maybe FW).


Ah, the looking for excuses has already started.


Probably his car has been damaged already ( remember several incidents with him during this race ? )


And surely the incidents were entirely not Michael´s fault - it seems people love to crash into him left and right.


"Just being a mediocre driver has never been my ambition. That's not my style." - Michael Schumacher


I wonder when Michael will start staying true to this statement. "Living in truth" by Vaclav Havel is recommended reading.

And sorry, to all the guys here on the BB who love Michael and adore him - I am a known critic and you will have me congratulate him first, if and when he wins a race - it will be one of the most glorious moments in the sport, with the whole paddock cheering (remember Rubens first win in 2009 after all those years....)

On the other hand, with races like this he just confirms what myself, man and a few others have been saying all along - so let´s hope Michael gives us something to cheer in 2011 and not more of the same.
So please bear with us critics when we call a spade a spade.


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#5920 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 16:00

Ah, the looking for excuses has already started.


What excuses? If he destroyed his tires it's his fault.

This is what he had to say about the first stint :

"I suffered with the rear tyres on my first set of options which made me slide rather than drive through corners which was tough, so I would probably say that I only enjoyed the second part of the race."

And i wouldn't really call you a critic. :rolleyes:

Edited by Diablobb81, 26 September 2010 - 16:01.


#5921 Tarzaan

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 16:01

Eddie Jordan: "I would sack Michael now, he's clearly not up to the job".


EJ in a new paparazzi pic:

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#5922 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 16:54

No excuses from me. I'm looking forward to next year.

However, I don't think his legacy is destroyed, in the same way the Ali and Tyson losing to the likes of Leon Spinks and Kevin McBride did nothing to harm their legacies.


He's clearly not as one with the car or the same person any more. That said, being only 0.5 second consistently off the pace the pace of Rosberg at THIS stage does mean that it's quite remarkable how quickly he has gotten on the pace. He deserves a place in F1 but the vultures are having a field day.

I don't even know how to defend the guy anymore. I'm out of excuses.

#5923 vovelo

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:01

And surely the incidents were entirely not Michael´s fault - it seems people love to crash into him left and right.

first incident with Koba - Koba's fault
incident between Nick and Michael - Schumi fault .
Is it Ok for you ?

Edited by vovelo, 26 September 2010 - 17:03.


#5924 vovelo

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:07

No excuses from me. I'm looking forward to next year.

However, I don't think his legacy is destroyed, in the same way the Ali and Tyson losing to the likes of Leon Spinks and Kevin McBride did nothing to harm their legacies.


He's clearly not as one with the car or the same person any more. That said, being only 0.5 second consistently off the pace the pace of Rosberg at THIS stage does mean that it's quite remarkable how quickly he has gotten on the pace. He deserves a place in F1 but the vultures are having a field day.

Good things :up:


#5925 ivand911

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:31

There is justice :rotfl: , Sutil is penalised and Michael get 9th place in WDC back. :clap: For now.
http://www.gpupdate....enberg-protest/

Edited by ivand911, 26 September 2010 - 17:31.


#5926 Tarzaan

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:31

I think he should try a new race engeneer next year. Shovlin is a nice guy, and smart, but it seem they are not in the same wavelength...

Edited by Tarzaan, 26 September 2010 - 17:40.


#5927 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:33

. Shovlin is a nice gay

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#5928 ivand911

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:34

I think he should try a new race engeneer next year. Shovlin is a nice guy, and smart, but it seem they are not in the same wavelength...

:up:

Edited by ivand911, 26 September 2010 - 17:35.


#5929 Tarzaan

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:40

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:



Sorry. My english is far from perfect;)

#5930 Konsta

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:44

Maybe the tyres he start race were used more in Qualy? And they finished quickly? Or when he tried to pass Bari he destroy them. And his tyres was not much fresher than Nico's on last stint?


Maybe it is time to stop defending so much and trying to find an excuse after another and admit just that over the entire race Nico is a more complete driver. MS was very sad today - overdrove and destroyed tires, tangled into others (Koba incident is debatable but he rammed NH) and showed basically nothing of his former racecraft. If he´d want to retain shreds of former glory, he´d retire today.

#5931 ivand911

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:47

Check this about accidents ,also thread about it.
http://www.gpupdate....ous-collisions/
About destroying tyres, Koba say that his tyres were finished too.

Edited by ivand911, 26 September 2010 - 17:51.


#5932 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:48

I think he should try a new race engeneer next year. Shovlin is a nice guy, and smart, but it seem they are not in the same wavelength...


Even if he was to get Chris Dayer back, I think it would take a while for them to understand the car, its on-track behaviour and for them to get that 'harmonious' relationship back.

I have no doubt that had Schumacher continued and not retired in 2006, he'd have adapted far better and been possible a 8 time champion.

Alas, time waits for no one


#5933 razno

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 17:57

He was losing two seconds in the first stint. He was pushing BArri hard and then his pace dropped immensely. He might have destroyed the tires in trying to overtake Barri.


To make car with some natural handling characteristic to opposite one you have to sacrifice something. I think that is Michael problem. He can't drive that car better than Rosberg because he can't drive smooth understering car... like button do. And consequences are that car eat tyre and don't run in optimal temperature...
Its not first time Schumacher suddenly drop peace on end of stints....

Rosberg cope with that much better.



#5934 man

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 18:14

There are those seemingly claiming M Schumacher has the pace but tyre issues out of his hands prevent him fighting back against the serious thrashing his teammate is giving him this season.

This nonsensical claim is as a pathetic as an athlete competing in a marathon and using up all his ability by running the first 100 meters in 10 seconds and being kaput for the rest of the race. Or, a driver in the turbo era using full boost the whole way, before running out of fuel half way and then whining that its not working out.

M Schumacher simply doesn't have the talent to drive as quickly in qualifying trim or race trim as his teammate or most of the current grid for that matter. ;-)

#5935 razno

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 18:28

M Schumacher simply doesn't have the talent to drive that car as quickly in qualifying trim or race trim as his teammate. ;-)


Fixed it for you.

#5936 iakhtar

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 18:52

There are those seemingly claiming M Schumacher has the pace but tyre issues out of his hands prevent him fighting back against the serious thrashing his teammate is giving him this season.

This nonsensical claim is as a pathetic as an athlete competing in a marathon and using up all his ability by running the first 100 meters in 10 seconds and being kaput for the rest of the race. Or, a driver in the turbo era using full boost the whole way, before running out of fuel half way and then whining that its not working out.

M Schumacher simply doesn't have the talent to drive as quickly in qualifying trim or race trim as his teammate or most of the current grid for that matter. ;-)



Your analogies make no sense and are not relevant. It is pretty well known that tyre issues are a major problem for MS, it cannot be denied as just a claim. Driving a setup compromised car is going to slow you down, these are very simple facts. MS is driving with a compromised setup which is exaggerating rear tyre wear. There are many other variables of course but the pattern has been clear through most of the season so far.

Neither of us trully know the extent of problems MS is currently facing and to dismiss any F1 driver let alone a multiple world champion as having a lack of talent is rather childish and frankly it's no better than the blind fanboy attitude you claim to loath.

Anyway, I've already posted my thoughts on MS' problems abit earlier in the thread which predictably nobody read in all probability, would have been interesting to discuss further, but I think I'm being naive to expect that.

#5937 Urawa

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 19:06

Your analogies make no sense and are not relevant. It is pretty well known that tyre issues are a major problem for MS, it cannot be denied as just a claim. Driving a setup compromised car is going to slow you down, these are very simple facts. MS is driving with a compromised setup which is exaggerating rear tyre wear. There are many other variables of course but the pattern has been clear through most of the season so far.

Neither of us trully know the extent of problems MS is currently facing and to dismiss any F1 driver let alone a multiple world champion as having a lack of talent is rather childish and frankly it's no better than the blind fanboy attitude you claim to loath.

Anyway, I've already posted my thoughts on MS' problems abit earlier in the thread which predictably nobody read in all probability, would have been interesting to discuss further, but I think I'm being naive to expect that.


One of the few people who look for reasons and explanations, thank you.

#5938 Number62

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 19:30

Your analogies make no sense and are not relevant. It is pretty well known that tyre issues are a major problem for MS, it cannot be denied as just a claim. Driving a setup compromised car is going to slow you down, these are very simple facts. MS is driving with a compromised setup which is exaggerating rear tyre wear. There are many other variables of course but the pattern has been clear through most of the season so far.

Neither of us trully know the extent of problems MS is currently facing and to dismiss any F1 driver let alone a multiple world champion as having a lack of talent is rather childish and frankly it's no better than the blind fanboy attitude you claim to loath.

Anyway, I've already posted my thoughts on MS' problems abit earlier in the thread which predictably nobody read in all probability, would have been interesting to discuss further, but I think I'm being naive to expect that.


All the drivers have tyre issues, they all have the same tyres.

All the drivers have a compromised setup. Setup is always a compromise.

These are not variables, they are equalities.

If MSC is si driving a compromised setup, he has the option to change the setup to one which does not exaggerate rear tyre wear.

This is F1, if the tech regs have skinny tyres which define an oversteery car (or vice versa) that's what you race with. "this type of technology doesn't suit me" is the worst excuse ever. If they created some regs which said you had to be 6 foot 4 to reach the pedals, I could beat every driver on the grid. Wouldn't mean i was any good though.

#5939 baddog

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 20:05

Bad race all round, what else needs saying?

Better next time hopefully.

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#5940 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 20:13

If MSC is si driving a compromised setup, he has the option to change the setup to one which does not exaggerate rear tyre wear.


Well that's the problem : he doesn't have a setup to be fast and easy on the tires.

M Schumacher simply doesn't have the talent to drive as quickly in qualifying trim or race trim as his teammate or most of the current grid for that matter. ;-)


The difference between quali trim and race trim being? Please enlighten us with your F1 knowledge.

Oh, and about talent : 91 wins and 7 championships. I'm sure talent isn't an issue. :rotfl: Other things are Michaels problems this year.

Edited by Diablobb81, 26 September 2010 - 20:17.


#5941 iakhtar

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 20:35

All the drivers have tyre issues, they all have the same tyres.

All the drivers have a compromised setup. Setup is always a compromise.

These are not variables, they are equalities.

If MSC is si driving a compromised setup, he has the option to change the setup to one which does not exaggerate rear tyre wear.

This is F1, if the tech regs have skinny tyres which define an oversteery car (or vice versa) that's what you race with. "this type of technology doesn't suit me" is the worst excuse ever. If they created some regs which said you had to be 6 foot 4 to reach the pedals, I could beat every driver on the grid. Wouldn't mean i was any good though.


This is a gross oversimplification of what the drivers and teams have to deal with, the tyres are the same for every driver but performance grip and wear are not, understanding why even with detailed telemetry is a serious challenge, as for setups, some cars have very narrow setup windows and some wide, it all comes down to technical design, there are few equalities as you put it but many many variables.

The Mercedes due to design flaws and other issues has a very narrow limited setup window for MS, trying to achieve that pointy front end causes bad rear tyre wear to put it simply, something that would not be a problem with a car that had a wider setup range.

#5942 black magic

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 20:36

I thought he might have been quietly pleased with qualifying as he did perform when had to

first phase was being held by reubens but after the safety car he was struggling until the change to new tyres when he actually managed to at least be on the pace of his teammate.

rather forgetable weekend

he will not quit however until he has driven the new car . wont be able to resist as he now needs tio understand for himself why he has not improved more.

#5943 man

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 20:36

Well that's the problem : he doesn't have a setup to be fast and easy on the tires.


Which equates to..... he lacks the talent to set-up the car and drive it in a manner that does his machinary justice.

He just aint good enough....Not by a long way ;-)

#5944 man

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 20:46

he will not quit however until he has driven the new car . wont be able to resist as he now needs tio understand for himself why he has not improved more.


I could save him the time and give him the answer now...he has reached his limit. ;-)

#5945 topical

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 20:57

He's clearly not as one with the car or the same person any more. That said, being only 0.5 second consistently off the pace the pace of Rosberg at THIS stage does mean that it's quite remarkable how quickly he has gotten on the pace. He deserves a place in F1 but the vultures are having a field day.


That doesn't make sense. It's precisely being 0.5 second consistently off the pace of Rosberg after 10 months back in the car that show he is probably NOT worthy of a place on this grid. Rosberg is a decent driver but has yet to prove to be anything special, so for Schumacher to be getting thrashed by him (and really it's nothing less than a thrashing) shows the magic is gone.
Nevertheless, he seems determined to stick around for 2011 and that'll be his last chance. If he can beat Rosberg next year (and Mercedes come up with a better car) then he'll probably stay for 2012 as well, but if the car is another piece of mediocrity and Rosberg kicks his ass again, he will surely quit at the end of next year.

#5946 Murdoch

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 21:02


Well that's the problem : he doesn't have a setup to be fast and easy on the tires.



The difference between quali trim and race trim being? Please enlighten us with your F1 knowledge.

Oh, and about talent : 91 wins and 7 championships. I'm sure talent isn't an issue. :rotfl: Other things are Michaels problems this year.


So lets just say that we had these regs 20 years ago, that would mean Schu would never have got near one race win, let alone 7 championships.

Honestly, some of you guys are either thick or deluded..........

Edited by Murdoch, 26 September 2010 - 21:03.


#5947 SeanValen

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 21:32

This is a gross oversimplification of what the drivers and teams have to deal with, the tyres are the same for every driver but performance grip and wear are not, understanding why even with detailed telemetry is a serious challenge, as for setups, some cars have very narrow setup windows and some wide, it all comes down to technical design, there are few equalities as you put it but many many variables.

The Mercedes due to design flaws and other issues has a very narrow limited setup window for MS, trying to achieve that pointy front end causes bad rear tyre wear to put it simply, something that would not be a problem with a car that had a wider setup range.



Good post,


Schumacher was fine at Spain in 2010, Monaco in 2010-his points tally was robbed from him, his Turkey performance was very good, his Spa performance was very good, these are races scattered over the year, why is he finding set ups and solutions on some tracks and not others.. Ideally you could say Schumacher should of only tested in 2010 and raced in 2011, but testing is banned, so Schumacher might of well have raced, if you look at Spain 2010/Monaco 2010/Turkey 2010/Spa 2010, he was able to drive the car as well or better then rosberg on these weekends, if he hadn't had those races, then I would of ruled him out for 2011 myself, but he did do well there, his season was chosen by tyres/chassic/car design before he even got in.


Mercedes just look like a broke team this year, as if they spend alot in 2009 as Brawn won and no one was looking at 2010, suddenly Mercedes buys the team and Schumi is in it, but nobody could of planned ahead and said there was a testing ban coming and retired driver coming back, how do you prepare for things like that while your chasing a title in 2009? They got it wrong, and this car is the worst possible one for a MS re-learning f1 to come back too.

Suzuka will be interesting, like Monaco and Spa this year, drivers tracks that Michael has done well at this year and in his first career, be interesting if he can find the set up solutions he needs on a track he has been king at in the past, he did do well at Monaco and Spa this year, so Suzuka could go well or him.

Edited by SeanValen, 26 September 2010 - 21:34.


#5948 rog

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 22:03

if you look at Spain 2010/Monaco 2010/Turkey 2010/Spa 2010, he was able to drive the car as well or better then rosberg on these weekends,



I disagree with you in some points.


Monaco= Rosberg was way faster in Quali, he only wasn't able to post a proper time in Q3 for some reasons, as a result bad luck with dirty grid line
Turkey= Rosberg was slightly faster in race speed
Spa= Rosberg was using a rain setup, a stronger rain setup than MS, difficult to judge real pace


Pure race results looking as well or better than Rosberg but a look deeper into it you can see he was struggling for pace in some circumstances as well. Monaco race, Barcelona race and Quali and turkey Quali was fine from MS. His best weekend this season was without any doubt Barcelona. The whole weekend better than Rosberg.

#5949 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 22:07

M Schumacher simply doesn't have the talent to drive as quickly in qualifying trim or race trim as his teammate or most of the current grid for that matter. ;-)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

good we've got that one settled.
if we agree with you would you please leave?

#5950 Sakae

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 23:01

I am really sorry for launching this thread. It was an emotional mistake with consequences which I haven't think about entirely through.