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#6001 aditya-now

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 07:33

That was as comprehensive a pasting that a driver has had from his teammate as I have seen. The first stint was as though they were on different compound tyres Michael was so slow. And he had clear enough air for most of it. I think it should also be obvious that Nico is pretty quick and consistent, how quick remains to be seen but he will not be seriously challenged by a guy as past it and slow as Michael is in 2010. And this is an important factor for Brawn and co in looking at next year, if Nico is to extract every last ounce of speed he needs a better benchmark.....


The fan club display an extraordinary resilience to reality. Some even say they don't find his results particularly disappointing - they are either lying or have extremely low expectations. To have about one third the WDC points as your teammate is embarassing, there are no major factors to mitigate why his results are so poor. Can't we just put this miserable comeback to bed as quickly and quietly as possible?


Nico is rated currently as fifth best driver on the grid after Kubica, Alonso, Webber and Hamilton in the "Top Seven Drivers" thread - so he definitely has profited from being paired with Schumacher. Either Nico is very good or Michael has become very bad.

Concerning the fan club´s blindness to reality: I had to listen to "for me it is enough to see Michael driving on the track" odé's - the veneration for Michael goes through the roof even when he shows nothing at all.
Maybe he fits the category of driver that Brundle referred to (on the example of Alonso): "He is a driver you cannot love, but a driver that has to be admired."

So one thing is for sure - the fans admire him, no matter what Michael's showing.


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#6002 aditya-now

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 07:43

So one thing is for sure - the fans admire him, no matter what Michael's showing.


Concerning Michael's showing:

Christian Klien returned to F1 after 3 years and 14 races. He tested 40 laps at the beginning of the 2010 season, then nil. Yet he qualified nearly a second ahead of Senna, also putting in a proper showing in the race. By contrast, Michael is behind his teammate after 15 races run.

So we cannot blame a break from driving GPs for more than three years the reason for Schumacher's poor showing. Also Klien is not used to the new cars, but obviously he knows how to adapt. This highlights once more the fact that in his successful days Schumacher had cars, tyres and team-situations tailor-made for him. Now that this is not the case it is hard for Michael to adapt. Klien, on the other hand, never had this advantage and had to learn to adapt, and to adapt quickly. Which is what he duly did.


#6003 topical

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 08:31

An interesting piece from Mark Hughes about Schumacher's decline. I get a bit sceptical when a journalist starts to go into too much detail about the way drivers take apexes and so on - remind me of the garbage Peter Windsor used to write. But still, there may be validity to it:
Schumacher

#6004 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 08:46

he just describes the same thing that michael has said..
the way he drove the ferrari and how he drives the mercedes now..very very different.
i don't know why people trust so little what michael says.

the other part...he says that
1) ms lack of speed is because he's lost the coordination-balance feel
2) ms has actually gone backwards performance wise

well 2) implies that 1) got worse even over this season...which is ridiculous.

watching the car in singapore showed (again) what he keeps trying on setup....in trying to make the care point where he wants he ends up with a rear extremely unbalanced (see his mistake when passed by webber) and he also chews the rear tyres pretty quickly.

accepting that he does know what a car should behave like but he keeps screwing these setups just shows how much of a struggle it is to find the balance.

also, his race is described as clumsy, yet this year alone he has actually crashed/spun in a race. He had to defend very hard a few times, had some "touches" like canada and singapore but those are racing incidents. he hasn't actually spun it by himself in a race, hit a barrier or something.

#6005 stuck-in-first-gear

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 08:55

Concerning Michael's showing:

Christian Klien returned to F1 after 3 years and 14 races. He tested 40 laps at the beginning of the 2010 season, then nil. Yet he qualified nearly a second ahead of Senna, also putting in a proper showing in the race. By contrast, Michael is behind his teammate after 15 races run.

So we cannot blame a break from driving GPs for more than three years the reason for Schumacher's poor showing. Also Klien is not used to the new cars, but obviously he knows how to adapt. This highlights once more the fact that in his successful days Schumacher had cars, tyres and team-situations tailor-made for him. Now that this is not the case it is hard for Michael to adapt. Klien, on the other hand, never had this advantage and had to learn to adapt, and to adapt quickly. Which is what he duly did.


How about opening an Aditya-exclusive monologue thread on Michaels comeback?

Pretty sure it wouldn't drop from the first page :wave:

I say, let him race until he decides to quit or Mercedes decides to put an end to it.
It is clear that everybody involved expected more to come out of this liaison, but I believe that all involved parties still have enough faith in this project to allow him to continue for at least another season.



#6006 topical

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:11

he just describes the same thing that michael has said..
the way he drove the ferrari and how he drives the mercedes now..very very different.
i don't know why people trust so little what michael says.



The interesting question is this: if this was MS' rookie season I think we all agree he would probably be dropped by Mercedes at the end of the year, as he is being thrashed by an average driver in Rosberg. Then he'd either join a backmarker team or go race Indy cars or something and that would be the end of MS in F1. So are you saying the only difference between that and 7 WDC and 91 victories is having a car set up to your liking? Sorry, but I just find that hard to believe. That does play some role, but it is much more likely that MS' natural abilities have also diminished considerably.
Well, I guess we'll have to wait till 2011 to find that out for sure...

#6007 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:18

I didn't jump straight in after the race in Singapore because I only got to see a cut down 90 minute highlights package and I wanted to see what everyone else here thought.

That was as comprehensive a pasting that a driver has had from his teammate as I have seen. The first stint was as though they were on different compound tyres Michael was so slow. And he had clear enough air for most of it. I think it should also be obvious that Nico is pretty quick and consistent, how quick remains to be seen but he will not be seriously challenged by a guy as past it and slow as Michael is in 2010. And this is an important factor for Brawn and co in looking at next year, if Nico is to extract every last ounce of speed he needs a better benchmark.

I know, the defenders will now come out and say Michael needs another season , another car, different tyres. If that were the case in his earlier career (when he was considered able to extract speed out of a dog) he would have had no reputation as some kind of miracle driver. Today maybe we have to choose between (a) MS is all washed up, a has-been at 41 or (b) overrated champion who was part of 2 superteams who both managed to gain an "unfair advantage". Benetton were certainly suspect in areas like illegal TC and Ferrari had special political assistance and other stuff.

None of this is to say that MS wasn't an exceptional driver, to me he definitely was, as well as a reason to renew my interest in F1 after the ugly Senna/Prost feud. Some of his drives were right off the top shelf, I don't expect a repeat this year or next. If a return to greatness isn't on the agenda I don't see a good reason to continue with this sad display. Michael needs to be quietly taken aside for a chat.

The fan club display an extraordinary resilience to reality. Some even say they don't find his results particularly disappointing - they are either lying or have extremely low expectations. To have about one third the WDC points as your teammate is embarassing, there are no major factors to mitigate why his results are so poor. Can't we just put this miserable comeback to bed as quickly and quietly as possible?


I agree, if he carries on like this - over driving and over compensating - then he needs to retire. He'll get a shellacking in the press but his legendary status will be preserved IMO unless he continues to embarras himself.

Every dog has its day and Schumacher has had his - although I'd love to see him challenge for another win again

#6008 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:22

The interesting question is this: if this was MS' rookie season I think we all agree he would probably be dropped by Mercedes at the end of the year, as he is being thrashed by an average driver in Rosberg. Then he'd either join a backmarker team or go race Indy cars or something and that would be the end of MS in F1. So are you saying the only difference between that and 7 WDC and 91 victories is having a car set up to your liking? Sorry, but I just find that hard to believe. That does play some role, but it is much more likely that MS' natural abilities have also diminished considerably.
Well, I guess we'll have to wait till 2011 to find that out for sure...


Button was considered fairly average - like Rosberg - from 2000-2008 until he became WDC last year. Now he is a leading contender for the WDC against a possible All Time Great in Lewis Hamilton in the same team. Maybe he's just stepped up his game.

Maybe Rosberg has done the same too?

#6009 slaveceru

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:23

In that case M Schumacher simply doesn't have the talent to beat Rosberg. Better?

It is better to say that Schumacher does not have the skills to beat Rosberg.

#6010 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:26

The interesting question is this: if this was MS' rookie season I think we all agree he would probably be dropped by Mercedes at the end of the year, as he is being thrashed by an average driver in Rosberg.


the "average" driver is just an assumption you make. Remember this, because it is the base of your whole argument
he can be in the yamamoto league as well as in the vettel league. he seldom makes mistakes so he could even be better than vettel

So are you saying the only difference between that and 7 WDC and 91 victories is having a car set up to your liking?

no, of course

the difference is more complex than that:

- the speed of the car (even if he liked this car, not a change to win anything in it)
- the general balance of the car (he struggled in 2005 badly at some points in the season)
- obviously his age but exactly how this affects the rest is unknown

if you imply that he is just lost because of the age etc...that is pretty difficult to believe. he would feel if he can't make it anymore
he's seen F1 through years and years of changes etc, he knows best if he can still pull it or not

#6011 as65p

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:28

if you imply that he is just lost because of the age etc...that is pretty difficult to believe. he would feel if he can't make it anymore
he's seen F1 through years and years of changes etc, he knows best if he can still pull it or not


I think you got that utterly wrong. As with every person, it's hardest to judge oneself. Former masters (at any profession) are no exception to that universal rule.

#6012 Lifew12

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:31

Button was considered fairly average - like Rosberg - from 2000-2008


Who by? Certainly not by those who paid him good money to race their cars! Button was always highly rated by a good deal of the paddock.

#6013 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:35

Who by? Certainly not by those who paid him good money to race their cars! Button was always highly rated by a good deal of the paddock.


Button was never considered world class. Let's not forget that he was beaten comprehensively by Fisichella in 2001 in the Benneton. Fisichella was great but a league below Alonso, Schumacher, Montoya etc, so where would that rank Button?

A great driver shows his form early in his career - Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton, etc. There was nothing to suggest that Button would be any better than the likes of Trulli in those early years.

It's amazing what a great car does for your inner confidence.

#6014 Muz Bee

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:55

Button was never considered world class. Let's not forget that he was beaten comprehensively by Fisichella in 2001 in the Benneton. There was nothing to suggest that Button would be any better than the likes of Trulli in those early years.



#6015 Muz Bee

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:02

Button was never considered world class. Let's not forget that he was beaten comprehensively by Fisichella in 2001 in the Benneton. There was nothing to suggest that Button would be any better than the likes of Trulli in those early years.

To the contrary, Button's debut year at Williams was terminated we are told, only because Montoya the mega was contracted to take the spot and the deal was rock solid. Flav totally ruined Button's momentum and bad career choices blighted what should have been a promising career. Oh, and BAR's inept sacking of the manager who gave Button his first GP win in favour of.... Nick Fry, yawn. Button grabbed his chance last year and showed it was no flash in the pan this year with some great drives. The expected domination by the incumbent Hamilton hasn't quite panned out like the predictions.

What your definition of "World class" is would be interesting but I maintain there has NEVER been a dud F1 World Champion all the way back to 1950. Some half-assed fanboys might like to create a lot of smelly hot air to confuse the disbelievers but all F1 champions are pretty smart, pretty quick, and pretty damned good. Mark Webber may well be the next to join that club, if he does all strength to him, he has produced some terrific drives.

Edited by Muz Bee, 28 September 2010 - 10:15.


#6016 Lifew12

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:10

Button was never considered world class.


That depends what you consider 'world class'. Button came into F1 as a very successful junior category driver who was highly touted and expected to win. I don't know about you, but I followed his career - I'm a motor racing fan, see - and was well aware of the beleif that many people had in him, belief that - as we now know - was justified last season. It's interesting, though, that prior to his F1 debut Michael Schumacher wasn't considered anything out of the ordinary. What does that say about who is, and who isn't, 'considered world class'?

#6017 slaveceru

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:17

totally disagree, there is no way the ability to kick a ball or drive a car is part of DNA which is millions of years old. Senna was the greatest wet weather driver of his generation yet he himself admitted he was destroyed in the wet initially but went out every time it rained and practiced like hell until he mastered it. Ability is down to confidence, intelligence, hunger and practice, not DNA.

DNA is more than 1 million old it is as old as life on this planet. The skills and abilities that you develop are the combination of your DNA information and the environment that you live in. Talent it self is marginally due to DNA information and not the environment. Talent is important at the beginning when you are young. The talent becomes evident when you put a young person in the car and he is driving better than average person in the same age. This means that he is more talented then the rest of the average population. After some years of training you develop proper skills and some abilities to drive even faster but you are not more talented than at the beginning. You have the same amount of talent as at the beginning when you first sated in the car. Every driver on the F1 grid is talented even the most successful driver in the history of F1 competition can be less talented than the driver with no WDC wins. To say that Schumacher is not talented or has lost talent is stupid.

#6018 slaveceru

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:25

to have a talent/skill requires practice,and lots of it,DextrahydraNuclueicAcid has nothing to do with skill/talent

First it is not dextra but deoxyribo nucleic acid. Here is the link what is DNA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA. Talent is not a skill. You need talent and training to develop some skills/abilities not vice verse.

#6019 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:26

An interesting piece from Mark Hughes about Schumacher's decline. I get a bit sceptical when a journalist starts to go into too much detail about the way drivers take apexes and so on - remind me of the garbage Peter Windsor used to write. But still, there may be validity to it:
Schumacher


No, Hughes is definitely the new Windsor. Take a little bit of information and mix it with a lot of self-absorption and you get this kind of 'analysis'. I particularly enjoy when journalists report tidbits that support their personal theory, but don't share rumours like Schumacher and his engineer not getting along. But that's F1 for you. People have no long term perspective, even in explaining things after the fact.

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#6020 Lifew12

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:37

but don't share rumours like Schumacher and his engineer not getting along.


Maybe the rumours have no substance. I don't know, but it could be so.....

#6021 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:41

So we are beholden to Mark Hughes, The Truth Filter.

#6022 topical

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:59

Button was considered fairly average - like Rosberg - from 2000-2008 until he became WDC last year. Now he is a leading contender for the WDC against a possible All Time Great in Lewis Hamilton in the same team. Maybe he's just stepped up his game.

Maybe Rosberg has done the same too?


in my eyes Button was slightly above average and still is slightly above average, and absolutely no more. I know he's nearly equal on points with Hamilton but Hamilton has been comprehensively faster than him for most races this season and if it wasn't for mechanical DNFs plus his stupid mistakes in the last couple of races, he would be well ahead of him by now. Yes, I know results are all that counts at the end of the day when it comes to making champions, but when we compare drivers we have to look beyond that.

Rosberg may have stepped up his game, it's true. We will have to see if/when he gets paired up with a top driver at the top of his game.

Edited by topical, 28 September 2010 - 10:59.


#6023 topical

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 11:02

if you imply that he is just lost because of the age etc...that is pretty difficult to believe. he would feel if he can't make it anymore
he's seen F1 through years and years of changes etc, he knows best if he can still pull it or not


I don't understand why people think age has nothing to do with it. Heck, even in golf or snooker most players decline with age, sports where fitness doesn't even play a role. If you don't believe me, listen to MS himself: in a recently broadcast interview he said there is no way a 41 has the reflexes and coordination of a 25 year old. He said the question is simply how much a 41 year old loses in comparison, and that that we can't know.

#6024 aditya-now

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 11:10

How about opening an Aditya-exclusive monologue thread on Michaels comeback?

Pretty sure it wouldn't drop from the first page :wave:


Very kind of you to suggest so, I was already thinking about it! ;)

:wave:

#6025 Lifew12

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 11:12

So we are beholden to Mark Hughes, The Truth Filter.


Nott all; I simply find it curious you remark that he doesn't include something you readily admit is just 'rumours'. I am no fan of Hughes in particular, as it happens, but don't judge my writers by which rumours they do, or do not, include in their analysis.

#6026 cheapracer

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 11:14

watching the car in singapore showed (again) what he keeps trying on setup....in trying to make the care point where he wants he ends up with a rear extremely unbalanced (see his mistake when passed by webber) and he also chews the rear tyres pretty quickly.


Another possibility is that he aims the setup at what he wants then races it to gather data to find what they need to do to the car to catch up with his driving.


Yes, I know results are all that counts at the end of the day when it comes to making champions, but when we compare drivers we have to look beyond that.


So XYZ is faster than ZYX but makes mistakes going faster so is a better driver?

Speak for yourself, Champions end up where they are often from knowing when to lift that right foot and take the points.


#6027 ivand911

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 11:20

It is exactly that expression that tells the whole story - the smile that isn´t a smile. He is not a good actor, rather he looks like a clown, you see the sadness behind the facade. I have been criticized for the clown analogy, but I stay with that analogy, as it is true and symbolic of the story that is Michael Schumacher in 2010.

Aditya, what was expression on Lewis face after last two races and on Alonso face after Spa? Tell us about that.
They all look the same when they f**k up. Lewis didn't finish last two races, he need to retire? Michael was hit once by Koba, one time Heidfeld send him out of the track and one time they crashed. What you all expected,podium? Even after first hit by Koba he have chances(Sutil and Hulk punished) ,but he lost time to get to pit(more than 38 sec),and because of this he get behind Nick. We all see that first stint was not great, with heavy load he eat his tyres, with fuel for 20 laps he was OK. Webber hit Lewis much better according some people here. Michael was also bad in this hitting business. Team needed to pit him very early not to wait 30 laps, he needed to pit after 5-6 laps from Webber passing him(15-20 laps), when Suttil with his new tyres pass Glock. Or team needed to pit him with first SC, don't know why they didn't do it. Michael have 10 variants to get in the points, but didn't happen. SS tyres are his worst friend.
If they pit him with Webber he could finish well ahead(4th-5th). But, who to think at MGP stand? Why they decided that is better not to pit? What was Shovlin thinking again? He is not quick thinker if you ask me. But still RBR was quick enough to pit Webber.

Edited by ivand911, 28 September 2010 - 11:53.


#6028 cheapracer

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 11:24

So we are beholden to Mark Hughes, The Truth Filter.


Do you like the part about MS's first stint and the Kaimu ramming him causing the loss of time and long pitstop ...

Oh wait ........ :rolleyes:

He's not related to Eddie Jordan by chance?

"There is far too much movement in the Mercedes motorhome involving managers from drivers from other teams"

- yeah Eddie, they don't currently have a test/reserve driver you idiot.

#6029 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:29

How about opening an Aditya-exclusive monologue thread on Michaels comeback?

Pretty sure it wouldn't drop from the first page :wave:


Seriously, MS fans, give it up already per favore, it's a major victory if he even makes it past Q2 any more.

I have to say, seeing him being lapped is quite enjoyable.


#6030 One

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:45

I should like to welcom seeing Kimi v.s. Schumi shoot out at Suzuka, if Korea was to be cleared from the table this year.

Both of them hanging on his glory so the better one gets a chance, what about it?

#6031 topical

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 15:12

So XYZ is faster than ZYX but makes mistakes going faster so is a better driver?

Speak for yourself, Champions end up where they are often from knowing when to lift that right foot and take the points.


I agree with your last point and said the same myself in another thread. A great driver is composed of many different qualities, the most important of which, but by no means the only one, is pure speed. But statistics and tables do not always tell the full story, and only a fool thinks they do.

Edited by topical, 28 September 2010 - 15:17.


#6032 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 15:34

Do you like the part about MS's first stint and the Kaimu ramming him causing the loss of time and long pitstop ...

Oh wait ........ :rolleyes:


I particularly enjoyed the theory that Michael has lost it because he's never going through the same corner twice. Then 2/3 through the piece he praises that aspect as the hallmark of what he could do previously. Which he can't do now, because he's no longer adaptive enough.



#6033 arknor

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 16:13

I particularly enjoyed the theory that Michael has lost it because he's never going through the same corner twice. Then 2/3 through the piece he praises that aspect as the hallmark of what he could do previously. Which he can't do now, because he's no longer adaptive enough.

and then he goes on to say oh after all it might be the tyres and theres some logic for this :rotfl:

one of the worst articles ever its like he got drunk and at the time in his head it sounded good

#6034 sosidge

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 16:18

Webber hit Lewis much better according some people here. Michael was also bad in this hitting business.


Love this quote... I know it's lost in translation, but it suggests Michael would do better if he took some lessons on how to hit other cars from Mark Webber!

I'd love to be present at that meeting - two masters of the art describing the finer points of crashing into your rivals :rotfl:

#6035 Owen

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 16:19

I have to say, seeing him being lapped is quite enjoyable.

You're allowed some schadenfreude I guess.
But just be thankful you're not having to pass him, doesn't appear to be without it's risks!!

#6036 cheapracer

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 16:26

Just an interesting point about the tyres and the chassis etc not suiting MS, some may remember 1996 when Berger and Alesi went to Benneton and found Schumachers car to be undrivable such was his unique chassis requirements.

Going to be tough choice for MGP with Rosberg's performance this year and with Rosberg's age on his side to 'Schumacher' or not to 'Schumacher' the chassis.


#6037 primer

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 16:37

They should only 'quick' the chassis. If one driver cannot adapt you replace him, not go on a wild hunt to make him quicker than the 'wrong' driver. it's not as if there is any shortage of people looking for a seat in an F1 car, but Mercedes might require another season of pain before reality sets in. Kinda like Ferrari and their Raikkonen experience.

#6038 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 16:42

Its obvious that for whatever reason this combination doesn't suit him. But next year we'll have new tires, a redesigned Merc, KERS(?), etc, et al. So effectively, this year will be irrelevant after Abu Dhabi.

#6039 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 16:54

They should only 'quick' the chassis. If one driver cannot adapt you replace him, not go on a wild hunt to make him quicker than the 'wrong' driver. it's not as if there is any shortage of people looking for a seat in an F1 car, but Mercedes might require another season of pain before reality sets in. Kinda like Ferrari and their Raikkonen experience.


But the question is what if Michael still is very good in a car that suits his driving style. We'll probably find out in the pre-season test next year.

Edited by Diablobb81, 28 September 2010 - 16:55.


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#6040 topical

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 17:01

But the question is what if Michael still is very good in a car that suits his driving style. We'll probably find out in the pre-season test next year.


If Michael is very good in a car that suits his driving style next year it's going to throw a fascinating light on the achievements of all drivers. We will know that, quite literally, Schumacher's multiple world championships were first and foremost down to his car and not him - and the same for everyone else. That would actually be kind of depressing.. You know, it's like if Ricardo Rosset had had a car that suits his style, maybe today he'd be considered an all time great? If I was a Schumacher fan, I think I'd rather he was slow again next year and then just say: ok, he's lost it, but in his prime he was magical, rather than have to reassess his whole career, which will happen.

#6041 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 17:19

If Michael is very good in a car that suits his driving style next year it's going to throw a fascinating light on the achievements of all drivers. We will know that, quite literally, Schumacher's multiple world championships were first and foremost down to his car and not him - and the same for everyone else. That would actually be kind of depressing.. You know, it's like if Ricardo Rosset had had a car that suits his style, maybe today he'd be considered an all time great? If I was a Schumacher fan, I think I'd rather he was slow again next year and then just say: ok, he's lost it, but in his prime he was magical, rather than have to reassess his whole career, which will happen.


But it's never down just to the driver. Whoever thinks that is not a realist.

It should be obvious that good or great driver can't perform to his max if even a good car, in the hands of his teammate, doesn't suit his driving style. Massa and Kimi come to mind.

And i don't think it's depressing. Michael could be magical in a car suited to his driving style even if the car wasn't that good compared to the rest of the top teams. But this year it just doesn't work out.

Edited by Diablobb81, 28 September 2010 - 17:22.


#6042 Urawa

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 17:25

The most interesting bits of Brawn talking to Sportbild about Michael´s situation


Would we see Schumacher in the cockpit if he was just a normal driver like many others? "Likely not but as we know him, there´s more to come.
He´s very talented in many areas. That´s the driving part and the work together with the team. The team is very happy with the manner he´s working.
Would Michael be a rookie, we would question ourselves if he has enough potential to develop himself further now. With Michael, we know he certainly is.
Michael´s driving style is dependent on a "strong" front tyre that resists his hard braking and steering maneuvers and the high cornering speed he has.
Nico just understood better how he has to use these front tyres. That should not sound like an excuse. Nico is a fantastic driver, a real yardstick.
We expect a different front tyre with a character that suit´s Michael more. We don´t know the tyre data yet but it can´t be as abnormal as the current Bridgestone tyres. Then we know if Michael is really worse than Nico."

Brawn is sure that Schumacher lost nothing of this talent
"If I look at the telemetry data, then, with an eye on the fast turns and his reaction time (when the car is slipping away ), there is 0 difference to earlier days. He´s still the old guy there, like in the past. During the slower turns he´s stuggling to use the tyres the same wa Nico does. That´s why I believe the real Michael will return next year.
But even if that´s not the case he doesn´t belive MS will retire earlier
"Michael is more relaxed now. 5 years ago the current situation would have been a hard task for him. He´s cooler now and matured. I don´t want to say he´s less ambitious but I´m surprised how quiet he stays at the moment, despite his lack of success.
Brawn is sure that one thing will not happen - MS as the Mercedes team boss. "He´s an intelligent guy with a faultless family. I doubt that would be the right job for him. You don´t get the adrenalin you experience while driving. 12h/day in the factory won´t satisfy him, let alone motivate."

Edited by Urawa, 28 September 2010 - 17:28.


#6043 topical

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 17:40

But it's never down just to the driver. Whoever thinks that is not a realist.

It should be obvious that good or great driver can't perform to his max if even a good car, in the hands of his teammate, doesn't suit his driving style. Massa and Kimi come to mind.

And i don't think it's depressing. Michael could be magical in a car suited to his driving style even if the car wasn't that good compared to the rest of the top teams. But this year it just doesn't work out.


I know we're going round and round in circles but Schumacher drove in many different cars over his career, some great, some good, some bad, and was never trounced by a teammate like this year. I just cannot believe it's all down to the tyres and car
I guess we will have to wait till next year to find out,


#6044 Muz Bee

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 20:41

I know we're going round and round in circles but Schumacher drove in many different cars over his career, some great, some good, some bad, and was never trounced by a teammate like this year. I just cannot believe it's all down to the tyres and car
I guess we will have to wait till next year to find out,

Indeed I don't think the car and tyres can explain it all. I believe he may actually have peaked in the late 90s aged about 30. His last two years didn't look exactly mega when Alonso was well up to the job of racing him head to head. Maybe his skillls were already significantly in decline in 2006 and by 2010 he was well past it. It's all speculation but remember Michael has done as much preseason testing of this car as Nico has. The direction of development of the car would have had as much input from Michael as anyone. OK, Michael may be dialling up a menu for 2011 of all the missing "ingredients" he wants on the improved new model but I see no reason why Nico won't be the most grateful recipient of these if they are "successful". The pace that Michael trundled around at last Sunday was an eye opener, it's hard to believe such a great champion is incapable of adapting his style to a greater degree. As you say we will have to wait until next year (if he chooses to prolong the misery).

#6045 Anssi

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 20:47

Well, I could bet my dog (if I had one) that Nico Rosberg has studied Michael Schumacher's driving style in preparation for a possible shock that next year's car would be very very different to his older F1 cars because it would have been adapted to Michael's style.

Nico is certainly not a dumb guy, quite the contrary. He does his homework. Schumi can't get one up on him by assuming that Nico doesn't do homework.

Of course if Schumi stays as a race driver for another season alongside Nico then we will have fun watching what happens. I hope Schumi stays - I want to see it.

Edited by Anssi, 28 September 2010 - 20:48.


#6046 SpeedyS

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 22:49

Eddie Jordon and some of the BBC team seem so focused on MS and trying to create uncertainly about next year when clearly nothing will change. Its almost embarrassing that everyday they have a did different member of their team trying to stir something up.
Now Senna and Klien, that is worth talking about but no one is interested.


#6047 Curt000

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 22:52

He'll be back next year ! This year is just getting back into things and getting next years car ready to actually suit him.

#6048 RSNS

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 23:18

An interesting piece from Mark Hughes about Schumacher's decline. I get a bit sceptical when a journalist starts to go into too much detail about the way drivers take apexes and so on - remind me of the garbage Peter Windsor used to write. But still, there may be validity to it:
Schumacher


I think that article is correct: Schumacher corrects rather more because he doesn't anticipate as he used to do; he doesn't adapt to the car as he used to; his trajectories seem erratic. Also, he is getting worse, not better.

Much as this pains me to say, I think he is finished.


#6049 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 23:24

if his problem is age related (i.e. he's finished because in the last years he's got older and lost his feel) how can you explain that he is getting worse? it's not like he starts degrading each day now!

#6050 aditya-now

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 23:26

Just an interesting point about the tyres and the chassis etc not suiting MS, some may remember 1996 when Berger and Alesi went to Benneton and found Schumachers car to be undrivable such was his unique chassis requirements.

Going to be tough choice for MGP with Rosberg's performance this year and with Rosberg's age on his side to 'Schumacher' or not to 'Schumacher' the chassis.


You are nailing it, cheapracer!!!

Let´s have the MGP car 2011 schumachered! All will be better off :up: