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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#6101 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:26

Because there's no doubt about about how many points either one has. Thats never been up for discussion. It's difficult to even make the argument that Schumacher could have had a lot more points but for problems. Most of his incidents have been of his own doing. It's not like he had a sure podium somewhere but then had a puncture.

The issue that's been confounding people all year is why he's missing those final crucial tenths of a second. Whether it's practice, qualifying, or the race.


Well, there were all those foolish strategy decisions during a few races at the beginning of the season. But that really wouldn't change things much.

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#6102 arknor

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:37

Sure we did. If he didn't have the best car. If he didn't have a weak teammate. If if if if if. Everyone wanted to explain away his success, but strangely no one wants to explain his struggles.

if hamilton didnt jump in to f1 with the best car , if hamilton didnt have a team built around him etc.

oh wait its not schumacher

#6103 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:39

So go pollute the Hamilton threads.

#6104 arknor

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:45

So go pollute the Hamilton threads.

i dont want to pollute anyones thread im just sick of people who obviously will never say anything postive coming in this thread.

#6105 Lifew12

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:00

i dont want to pollute anyones thread im just sick of people who obviously will never say anything postive coming in this thread.


What if we have nothing positive to say? Do we invent something?

#6106 arknor

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:03

What if we have nothing positive to say? Do we invent something?

no you drag stuff up from 10 years ago instead

#6107 Lifew12

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:23

no you drag stuff up from 10 years ago instead


No, we say something negative! Like - Michael Schumacher wears crap shirts.

#6108 DarthRonzo

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:26

He ends races in the non-points, ... and he smiles like a farmer with tooth-pain after the race, with a real non-realistic air over him, "It'z all very okay" he say's, smiles and goes on the the next humiliation.

But the most logical explaination is; it has ALWAYS been the car/team, instead of the driver. Michael is showing us his real talent, now in 2010 for the 1st time in his carreer. Welcome to that. I knew it all allong, ... it's a huge revelation, isn't?

Is Schumy doing an Alonso ? :confused:

Edited by DarthRonzo, 30 September 2010 - 11:27.


#6109 Chezrome

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:30

Ross - I was just wondering.

What does it matter? In the end, race performance is of course what it all comes down to, and not single lap pace, you don´t get points for that. And while it is true that Michael is only about three tenths behind Nico in average quali pace, the distance is much more than that over a race.

It seems Michael can get the odd fast lap together, but in 2010 it is asked too much of him to put down such laps for 20, 30 or 40 laps in a row, like it was his strength once upon a time. Does it take too much concentration from Michael to bring in 20+ fast laps in a row? Also, looking at the number of uncharacteristic mistakes, it seems that he does not have the concentration for a longer period of time any more that he had for a single lap. So his deficit is compounding over a race distance.

Methinks that Michael simply gives in knowing that he cannot do much right now, and is waiting for better times. If and when he harmonizes better with his front tyres there should be also more consistency and concentration on Michael's part.

At the moment, that lack of consistency makes Michael appear rather lacklustre.


I would find it interesting to see Schumachers stints during practice with a lower fuelload. He was the best in driving 20 almost qualifying laps in two or three stints. Now he has to drive those laps with much more fuel aboard: ie: a full tank


#6110 aditya-now

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:55

I would find it interesting to see Schumachers stints during practice with a lower fuelload. He was the best in driving 20 almost qualifying laps in two or three stints. Now he has to drive those laps with much more fuel aboard: ie: a full tank


That post is definitely pointing into the right direction - except for the very beginnings of his career, Schumi always excelled with his banzai laps in short stints, with little fuel on board.
As much as the front tyres are an issue, and an explanation for those final missing tenths, so also the fact, that nowadays he has to drive around for a long time with a lot of fuel on board - it simply does not suit Michael's driving style.

Edited by aditya-now, 30 September 2010 - 11:56.


#6111 man

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 14:52

i dont want to pollute anyones thread im just sick of people who obviously will never say anything postive coming in this thread.


If you're after positive comments I'm sure there are numerous fan websites of M Schumacher that you may consider more appropriate for your requirements. I can understand that when you like somebody or something past a certain degree, what could be perceived a negative feedback can be difficult to tolerate. But if that is the case for you and M Schumacher, I don't think you will ever be satisfied with the nature of the atlas forums. ;-)

#6112 dde

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 15:16

That post is definitely pointing into the right direction - except for the very beginnings of his career, Schumi always excelled with his banzai laps in short stints, with little fuel on board.
As much as the front tyres are an issue, and an explanation for those final missing tenths, so also the fact, that nowadays he has to drive around for a long time with a lot of fuel on board - it simply does not suit Michael's driving style.


In his early years, that was not a problem.


#6113 Boing 2

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 18:39

no one with any sense would say schumachers success was all down to his car, he had a lot of talent and would probably have been a triple world champion on a level playing field. It's simply that his level of success was exaggerated hugely by his circumstances, career management, political and contractual protection and many other layers of protection he built around himself.

That frustrated a lot of people who tuned in every fortnight to see a fair fight for 10 years so you can understand why some people are rather enjoying a little payback and mythbusting here.

Edited by Boing 2, 30 September 2010 - 19:08.


#6114 Sakae

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 19:14

The issue that's been confounding people all year is why he's missing those final crucial tenths of a second. Whether it's practice, qualifying, or the race.

I think Ross Brawn has recently explained MS's issues. Tires were build for heavier car (+KERS), and now without those, combination of tire-properties, high level of COG, and general characteristics of the car it all doesn't suit him, expecially in slow turns. Nico simply is doing a better job of it. Michael would have probably more success this year in a car that Alonso is driving.

#6115 Massacrator

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 20:31

Is Schumy doing an Alonso ? :confused:

Nah, doing an Alonso would include beating his team-mate by far :rotfl: :rotfl:

#6116 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 21:06

I think Ross Brawn has recently explained MS's issues. Tires were build for heavier car (+KERS), and now without those, combination of tire-properties, high level of COG, and general characteristics of the car it all doesn't suit him, expecially in slow turns. Nico simply is doing a better job of it. Michael would have probably more success this year in a car that Alonso is driving.


I've never come across any similar situation, so I don't know whether to hope for an improvement next year or concede the defeat that's staring me in the face this year.

Sometimes you might have a situation such as, lets say, Nadal's, who seemed completely out of tune for quite a while after his injury, so much that one had to wonder whether he would ever recover - and yet he did. But then again, that was a different matter.

Fact remains many specialists were either expecting Schumi to gradually improve to form or fail completely. One might have argued an improvement was taking place in the first few races of the season, but not much has been happening since.

I guess time will tell and we'll all be wiser in a year or less.

#6117 Sakae

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 21:25

I thought initially that Michael will need maybe two to four races to get back into the racing grove, He did not, I was wrong, yet somehow my trust in him was not shaken a bit. The guy is honest to himslef, and his work. If he believes he can drive that car, who am I to tell him differently? Problem exist, I suspect, that no one is certain that they had identified root cause behind car/driver lack of *fill blanks*, and unless you know what's wrong, how you can fix it then?

#6118 Callisto

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 23:14

I must be truthful,i always respected michaels records,but never his attitude/dirty tricks.this season out of the car his calm and coolness has supprised me,he seems to me to be enjoying himself

Edited by Callisto, 30 September 2010 - 23:17.


#6119 aditya-now

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 23:19

In his early years, that was not a problem.


True, that was 1991, 1992 and 1993. Now is 2010.


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#6120 JustinCider

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 23:21

http://www.motorspor...e.asp?ID=388986

....Mercedes GP chief Brawn admitted on Wednesday that – if Schumacher was not the famous seven time world champion and record-setting legend - the struggling occupant of this year's car number 3 might have been shown the door.

"To be honest, probably not," said the Briton when asked if he would have persevered with a different driver showing Schumacher's current level of performance.


Schumacher is now officially surviving in F1 by reputation and the promise of better things to come.

I think retirement under the circumstances Martin Brundle mentioned would be the best option for all concerned.

#6121 Nitropower

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 23:22

I must be truthful,i always respected michaels records,but never his attitude/dirty tricks.this season out of the car his calm and coolness has supprised me,he seems to me to be enjoying himself


I can't find where you see him enjoying it. I think he's looked frustrated at the beginning of the season, then complacent and finally aggresive on others when fighting for positions. Just my opinion.

#6122 Muz Bee

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 23:40

I must be truthful,i always respected michaels records,but never his attitude/dirty tricks.this season out of the car his calm and coolness has supprised me,he seems to me to be enjoying himself

Unfortunately for Michael he isn't contracted to be enjoying himself. Also "enjoying" F1 if anything indicates a plateauing or worse, top racers are utterly driven, never satisfied and have a high need to dig deeper. I don't see anything close to that in the recent Michael. Waiting for 2011 is an extraordinary thing for a driver, more so his team boss. Well you have to say the two have shared many good times so some loyalty should be expected.

#6123 SchumiBoy

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 23:43

Unfortunately for Michael he isn't contracted to be enjoying himself.


He must have a very special contract nevertheless. No other driver in F1 would get away with a season like this

#6124 Muz Bee

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 23:44

no one with any sense would say schumachers success was all down to his car, he had a lot of talent and would probably have been a triple world champion on a level playing field. It's simply that his level of success was exaggerated hugely by his circumstances, career management, political and contractual protection and many other layers of protection he built around himself.

That frustrated a lot of people who tuned in every fortnight to see a fair fight for 10 years so you can understand why some people are rather enjoying a little payback and mythbusting here.

:up: A balanced summation, neither hater nor fanboy. MS indeed was worthy of 3WDCs, I regard him as similar level to a Stewart or Lauda and his mega record flatters him IMO. The layers of protection you speak of will of course be denied by his fans but he did enjoy some incredible advantages in the period of his 5 consecutive titles.

Whether the barren period of 2010 puts his earlier career in context is a matter of opinion but I am with you on this. Good post.

#6125 marchi-91

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 02:10

http://www.motorspor...e.asp?ID=388986



Schumacher is now officially surviving in F1 by reputation and the promise of better things to come.

I think retirement under the circumstances Martin Brundle mentioned would be the best option for all concerned.


Because no other driver of his calibre would be in the same boat :drunk:

And his reputation is nothing look down at. Ross may not have held on to another driver, but another driver is not Michael Schumacher. He knows what he's capable of and we've seen glimpses of it again this season. Michael would not be happy if he knew things were not going to get better. He would also not have a job in that respect.


But I guess logic is never really brought into this discussion is it?

#6126 cheapracer

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 02:18

Nah, doing an Alonso would include beating his team-mate by far :rotfl: :rotfl:


2007 Lewis Hamilton (and the odd true performance from Fisi) - can we move on now?


I think retirement under the circumstances Martin Brundle mentioned would be the best option for all concerned.


I'm sure that would suit Brundle's ex-Schumacher thrashed teammate vindictive F1 commentating career perfectly.

Edited by cheapracer, 01 October 2010 - 02:29.


#6127 cheapracer

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 02:35

I thought that his name was spelled with capital S, like in Schumacher, Michael Schumacher that is.


Thats actually quite common throughout all drivers threads I've noticed and commented on before - Freudian stuff, their hero's always start with the proper high case and vise versa.

I think, personally, that signing a 41 year old geezer who had three years out of the sport and costs a lot of money over one of a number of current choices with proven ability who may well have been considerably cheaper wasn't the best decision they could have made.


I'm guessing you could do better as a team manager or team principle?

I seem to understand whats going on with the whole Schumacher deal so out of interest lets compare yours and my lives in terms of success, jobs and what we do daily to see where those differences of perspectives come from - could be interesting are you up for it?

Edited by cheapracer, 01 October 2010 - 02:46.


#6128 SlateGray

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 03:32

What is the latest updated time frame for Schumacher to get the better of his young teammate?




#6129 DarthRonzo

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 03:40

What is the latest updated time frame for Schumacher to get the better of his young teammate?

2011, if the Pirelli front tires provide more grip.

#6130 cheapracer

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 03:57

What is the latest updated time frame for Schumacher to get the better of his young teammate?


Why the loaded question? Are you serious or am I just not seeing the obvious troll?

Theres plenty of information in this thread, I suggest you review it.

If you're serious personally from what I have seen this year and if the Pirelli's do prove to be more suitable then I only expect MS to match Rosberg (to Rosberg's credit) not "get the better" of him.




#6131 SlateGray

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 04:02

2011, if the Pirelli front tires provide more grip.


Don't they have to "Schumacherize the car" as well?

#6132 cheapracer

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 04:29

Wasnt Mighty Michael supposed to be able to adapt to any car, wasnt he supposed to be able to win with a trolley?


Where is your evidence for this please?

In fact evidence goes against this fallacy, from 1996 he and the team methodically built up the Ferrari over a number of years - his skill was in driving consistantly faster lap by lap than anybody else partly due to his legendary fitness and ability to setup a car to perfection, not being ultimately faster or wringing more from a car in a Mansell, Senna, Keke or Gilles type fashion but being faster over a complete race which the results show.


The layers of protection you speak of will of course be denied by his fans but he did enjoy some incredible advantages in the period of his 5 consecutive titles.


Don't for the life of me understand why this keeps getting rehashed as a negative - Ferrari and Bridgestone thought Shumacher's ability was worth putting all of their efforts behind, they had other drivers and Bridgestone had other teams to choose from but they both chose to go with Schumacher.

Thats a positive for the man not a negative that resulted in 5 WDC and 80 odd race wins.

Ferrari's plan = win, Bridgestone's plan = win, Schumacher plan = win, a number of whiney forum posters = lose :lol:


#6133 tormave

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:04

2011, if the Pirelli front tires provide more grip.

Again, this is a gross oversimplification of the issue. In Singapore for instance both MGP drivers complained about rear tyre wear and resulting oversteer. In 2011 the Pirelli front tyre will be of the same width as this year's Bridgestone one is. It's not really physically possible to for the front tyre grip to increase relative to the rear tyre one just by changing the compound or the supplier because the contact patch sizes (front & rear) will remain the same.

#6134 DarthRonzo

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:50

Again, this is a gross oversimplification of the issue. In Singapore for instance both MGP drivers complained about rear tyre wear and resulting oversteer. In 2011 the Pirelli front tyre will be of the same width as this year's Bridgestone one is. It's not really physically possible to for the front tyre grip to increase relative to the rear tyre one just by changing the compound or the supplier because the contact patch sizes (front & rear) will remain the same.

Both Mick Schumy and Ross Brawn gave lenghty interviews about the subject last week.
Schumy is losing time in the low speed corners/turns as he needs a firmly stuck front end.
Since BStone changed the weight ratio among axles, the front tires had to be hander and with low grip.

About the tires, there are other variables, like side wall and tire bead construction, among other ellements.

#6135 cheapracer

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:54

Again, this is a gross oversimplification of the issue.

It's not really physically possible to for the front tyre grip to increase relative to the rear tyre one just by changing the compound or the supplier because the contact patch sizes (front & rear) will remain the same.


Load of rubbish.

I suggest you post your question in the Technical Forum first before coming here and giving your own "gross oversimplification of the issue". Simply changing compounds and/or constructions will have dramatic results everywhere including front to rear car balance.

To prove a point McLaren report better handling on hards this year while Ferrari report better on softs - the hards and softs this year have the same contact patch ratio which according to you there should be no difference ..... and thats the same brand and construction.

The Tech Forum has at least one regular guy involved with tyre construction and others who engineer results from them.


#6136 arknor

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:11

The layers of protection you speak of will of course be denied by his fans but he did enjoy some incredible advantages in the period of his 5 consecutive titles.

well lets see what lewis hamilton can do with his layers of protection hes had since karting

#6137 Craven Morehead

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:12

Again, this is a gross oversimplification of the issue. In Singapore for instance both MGP drivers complained about rear tyre wear and resulting oversteer. In 2011 the Pirelli front tyre will be of the same width as this year's Bridgestone one is. It's not really physically possible to for the front tyre grip to increase relative to the rear tyre one just by changing the compound or the supplier because the contact patch sizes (front & rear) will remain the same.


Dead wrong I'm afraid..

There are so many more variables at play. Carcass stiffness, belt tension, side wall construction & shape, etc. You can't even be certain at this point that the contact patches of the Pirelli will be the same as the Bridgestone. Or that the contact patch ratio front/ rear will be the same.

#6138 topical

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:30

Slight differnce being Hamilton is acknowledged by most to be the fastest and most complete driver out there


Er, no he's not. Alonso is.

#6139 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:38

And Kubica. And whoever else is the flavor of the week.

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#6140 aditya-now

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:39

Er, no he's not. Alonso is.


Correct, not Schumacher is, not Hamilton is, Alonso is.

#6141 aditya-now

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:41

And Kubica. And whoever else is the flavor of the week.


Kubica will need to still prove it when in a top car - he draws a lot of sympathy now, but the proof of the pudding is always in the eating. Fisichella was thought by many is a superstar in waiting, but when he had the Renault in 2005 and 2006 he failed miserably. So I keep my views on Kubica still reserved.

#6142 cheapracer

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:54

And Kubica. And whoever else is the flavor of the week.


Isn't it Klien this week? :lol:

#6143 cheapracer

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:58

Dead wrong I'm afraid..

There are so many more variables at play. Carcass stiffness, belt tension, side wall construction & shape, etc. You can't even be certain at this point that the contact patches of the Pirelli will be the same as the Bridgestone. Or that the contact patch ratio front/ rear will be the same.


From the complaints this year I'm sure they will endeavour to make a larger contact patch on the front - well I would if I was in charge for no better reason than have the drivers tell the world that "the new Pirelli's feel much better than last years Bridgestones".


#6144 Konsta

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:22

Because no other driver of his calibre would be in the same boat :drunk:

And his reputation is nothing look down at. Ross may not have held on to another driver, but another driver is not Michael Schumacher. He knows what he's capable of and we've seen glimpses of it again this season. Michael would not be happy if he knew things were not going to get better. He would also not have a job in that respect.


But I guess logic is never really brought into this discussion is it?


What might those glimpses be? I haven´t seen nothing but poor and at best upper-mediocre performances. Michael´s reputation was that he could drive around any problem and that has been utterly and devastatingly shattered this season. All that the fellow has is great reputation and wishful thinking that he might get better than what he´s been able to portray.

#6145 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:32

He must have a very special contract nevertheless. No other driver in F1 would get away with a season like this


Plenty have in the past.



#6146 cheapracer

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:40

Michael´s reputation was that he could drive around any problem and that has been utterly and devastatingly shattered this season.



What reputation? I asked for evidence of this just a few posts ago and gave a factual provable view that opposes it so give us the low down thanks ...?

Surely not from being stuck in 5th gear for a few laps luckily at a track that didn't give much time up because of it although I actually don't think he wanted to retire after knocking a wheel off via DC in the wet and having just 3 wheels at Spa in '98! Those are the only above the ordinary incidents I can think of.

"Shattered" only if thats the belief you carry, I don't and apparently(?) you didn't so who are you refering to?

"Utterly and devastatingly"? - bit dramatic there mate.




#6147 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:43

True, that was 1991, 1992 and 1993. Now is 2010.


Seems staggering, doesn't it? 1991.

I was 6 years old then.

#6148 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:48

Er, no he's not. Alonso is.


Correct. Complete with tantrums thrown in too.

#6149 Frans

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 08:52

Hahaah Schumacher will never return to his old form! Hahahaaaaa, he's done, he's overcooked and not tasty. He's a piece of faded history !!

#6150 Sakae

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:24

http://www.motorspor...e.asp?ID=388986



Schumacher is now officially surviving in F1 by reputation and the promise of better things to come.

I think retirement under the circumstances Martin Brundle mentioned would be the best option for all concerned.

Brundle is talking to anti-factions. His attitute needs perhaps adjustment as best option for all concerned.