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#6351 ivand911

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 13:00

So Barrichello was holding Schumacher up until Webber passed Schumi? How on earth did Schumacher get stuck behind Barrichello? Why was Rosberg not stuck behind Barrichello?
:up:

Maybe because Bari was 6th and Michael 9th and Nico 7th. Can be such easy answer? Michael was close to pass Bari too, just next left corner was helping Bari. And Kubica at the start almost pass Nico.
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#6352 ivand911

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 13:06

FIA Thursday press conference - Japan
http://www.formula1....0/10/11350.html

Q: Michael, a remarkable record here. Six wins and half of your starts from pole position as well. What are your feelings about this circuit?
Michael Schumacher: Well, from a driver’s point of view it is probably the highlight of the year. Mentioning the first sector as before that’s the one. That’s what you look forward to. From a driver’s point of view that is the ultimate challenge and I really look forward to this one. It has been through all the years very exceptional.

Q: What about your preparations for Korea? What have you been able to do?
MS: There is not much that can be done from that point of view in terms of simulator. Yes, we have a simulator but nobody has been able to drive the track so, at least for me, it is not anything that I make use of. I will go, as I did in Singapore, arrive there and see the nature of the track and get used to it as I normally do.

Q: You have been asked this many times, but we are getting towards the end of this comeback year for you. Just summarise how you have seen it so far this year.
MS: Well, it has been a much tougher year than we expected. If you think of the performance that the team was able to do last year, expectations were high. We have not been able to fulfil those expectations. At the same time it has been a long-term project and if I look back at how long it took with Benetton and with Ferrari to build up a team and then finally to take success it has never been possible to do that in the short term. The nature of the fact that the team used to be a big team, such as the top three teams, then was reduced to a much smaller team during last year due to circumstances that everybody knows, we are now a rather small team compared to the top running teams. That, in the situation that we are right now, makes it, naturally, a little bit more difficult. But then we have made decisions and steps to get back to the winning route although naturally it will take time.
MS: Principally, you always follow the same path. In Formula One, overtaking is very difficult. The nature of tracks, such as Singapore, don’t make it any easier. The straights are rather short and it needs special circumstances such as probably Robert (Kubica) had in the race, having fresher tyres, having the car with the most top speed. Only with those kind of circumstances may you get into a position to overtake. But under normal circumstances it’s tough. Probably in Brazil and on some exceptional tracks it is possible and on others it is simply impossible, so that’s the nature of our business. Naturally, if you have an opportunity you will go for it and having two cars close to each other then occasionally certain contact will happen, that’s unavoidable.
Q: (MC) But it doesn’t reflect on any particular person?
MS: No, not at all. I think that’s the general situation and I don’t think in Singapore we saw anything that changes the general trend.

Q: (Andrea Cremonesi - La Gazzetta dello Sport) It’s a question for Michael. Before, you talked about a longer period project for Mercedes and you mentioned Benetton and Ferrari. In those days, you were in your mid-twenties and then in your mid-thirties. Now you are a little bit older. Is there any risk that time will run out before you find the target and is there any risk that you can work and somebody else can reap the fruits of your work, like Nico (Rosberg) for example?
MS: That’s why, right from the beginning, we talked about a three-year situation. I hope that within this time I can collect the fruits of it. Certainly we are on the right path. If I see modifications and mistakes and the learning curve – all what has been done to improve next year makes me very confident and comfortable and again, the target is to reduce what used to take four to five years to reduce it in time, so that I take the benefit from it.
Q: (Bob McKenzie - The Daily Express) Michael, with your experience, if you were having a bet where would your money go on the championship, among the five contenders now?
MS: If you want to lose money, you bet on one of those guys because none can be right and can be correct. If you look at this year, I think it has been a very exceptional year: for the reason to have so many drivers still in the championship and for the fact that there have been so many up and down happenings, retirements and so on, that I don’t think you could have expected, so I wouldn’t bet any money on anybody. I cross fingers for one that I’m good friends with, but that’s about it.

Q: (Bob McKenzie - The Daily Express) Who would that be?
MS: I’m good friends with Sebastian (Vettel), so my fingers are crossed for him.
Q: (Frederic Ferret - L’Equipe) Question to Michael and Lewis: what do you need to have a winning car in Suzuka, and do you think the Red Bull can be beaten this weekend?

LH: At this circuit - well, I’ve only been here once, so Michael is probably the best one to start, you’ve won here six times, so there’s no one better to answer that.

MS: In a way, it is a high challenge track, and drivers, yes indeed, can give a great input on this kind of track, especially in the first sector, but nevertheless, the car is mega-important because of this first sector. If the response from the front end in particular, with all these longish corners, is weak, you suffer quite a lot and in this respect, looking at the nature of the Red Bull car, I think it’s going to be very strong in my view, but then I know that McLaren is pushing very hard on developments, so we will see whether they can keep up or not. That’s going to be a tough one.

Q: (Yuuki Ishihara -Tokyo Sankei Sports) Michael, people say you are master of Suzuka. You won six times here in Suzuka, many times more than anybody else. I was wondering if you could share some secrets, do you have any reasons why you have been so good here in Suzuka?

MS: I don’t think it is naturally only Suzuka because if you just go for this statistic I have a couple of other tracks where I have been winning many times. It’s just that I’ve been around so long! That’s why maybe the number is so high, plus working with a very professional and fantastic team and doing my best on top of this. That’s what has given the results.

Edited by ivand911, 07 October 2010 - 13:07.


#6353 aditya-now

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 13:21

Maybe because Bari was 6th and Michael 9th and Nico 7th. Can be such easy answer? Michael was close to pass Bari too, just next left corner was helping Bari. And Kubica at the start almost pass Nico.
Welcome in Bulgaria.


So why was Nico 7th, and Michael only 9th? Can be such an easy question? At least he could have made up for his weak qualifying in the race...


MS: I don’t think it is naturally only Suzuka because if you just go for this statistic I have a couple of other tracks where I have been winning many times. It’s just that I’ve been around so long! That’s why maybe the number is so high, plus working with a very professional and fantastic team and doing my best on top of this. That’s what has given the results.



Nice to see Michael becoming more humble and realistic - this is a side of Michael that I´d like to see more often. Kudos to him for this! :up:
Michael has been confirming what we have discussed here in the last days - that he was not THE ingredient, but the icing on the cake, if you will. That´s what has given the results - in Michael´s own words. I am curious if his fans take note of this statement.

#6354 ivand911

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 13:36

So why was Nico 7th, and Michael only 9th? Can be such an easy question? At least he could have made up for his weak qualifying in the race...

Nice to see Michael becoming more humble and realistic - this is a side of Michael that I´d like to see more often. Kudos to him for this! :up:
Michael has been confirming what we have discussed here in the last days - that he was not THE ingredient, but the icing on the cake, if you will. That´s what has given the results - in Michael´s own words. I am curious if his fans take note of this statement.

I don't think he ever said that he achieve his results alone? He always say that it is team work.
And he was behind Nico at the start because he was 0,259s slower in Qualy. Real problem as I said before in the race was heavy car+SS tyres+MS combo. Results this year with this combo was not good. They know that and I don't know why they continue to stay on this tyres ,when they were done maybe before lap 10. Truth is they miss very good opportunity at the first SC to pit. If the Leader of WDC is pitting then, have to show them something?

Edited by ivand911, 07 October 2010 - 13:43.


#6355 aditya-now

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 13:52

I don't think he ever said that he achieve his results alone? He always say that it is team work.


I know, and I never had a problem with that. While you were not on the BB the last days, Ivan, there was a discussion going on that MS was THE ingredient in Ferrari from 1996 onwards - this is what I could not accept (neither did Michael ever claim it), but his fans have built that myth out of their need to put Michael on an even higher pedestal.

So it was nice seeing Michael himself debunk that myth - shows the man has some honesty and realism.

Truth is they miss very good opportunity at the first SC to pit. If the Leader of WDC is pitting then, have to show them something?


If your name is Michael Schumacher, maybe?

I think you are very right, they missed an opportunity to pit him at the right time, but then again, Michael has trouble going longer stints on the same tyres, so that was probably their rationale behind that decision.


#6356 Lifew12

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 14:21

there was a discussion going on that MS was THE ingredient in Ferrari from 1996 onwards - this is what I could not accept (neither did Michael ever claim it), but his fans have built that myth out of their need to put Michael on an even higher pedestal.


You should mention that it was me - i.e. not one of his fans - who was arguing that point, as it does carry some relevance to your stance.


#6357 aditya-now

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 14:22

You should mention that it was me - i.e. not one of his fans - who was arguing that point, as it does carry some relevance to your stance.


You were one of those, Life, but I am sure you do agree with Michael.


#6358 Lifew12

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 14:24

You were one of those, Life, but I am sure you do agree with Michael.


I never disagreed, and without going over it again, my point was all that success would never have happened without him. The odd thing is, even though that clearly indicates he was very much the man at the centre of it all, you actually agree with it!

#6359 Jan.W

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 14:42

Nice to see Michael becoming more humble and realistic -


MS has always been too humble, compared to the likes of Senna or Prost.


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#6360 cheapracer

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 14:45

Mika is not coming back.


Bild say he is.


#6361 Lifew12

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 14:47

Bild say he is.


SOURCE?

#6362 cheapracer

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 14:54

SOURCE?


Tomato.

You should keep up with the threads :lol:

FWIW http://uk.autoblog.c...with-f1-return/


#6363 aditya-now

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 16:58

Tomato.

You should keep up with the threads :lol:

FWIW http://uk.autoblog.c...with-f1-return/


Thanks for the link, cheapracer, remarkable article.

I think they all should come back: Mika Hakkinen, Ralf Schumacher and David Coulthard. Together with Michael Schumacher they will show the young drivers of today what F1 racing really is all about! :up:


#6364 aditya-now

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 17:01

I never disagreed, and without going over it again, my point was all that success would never have happened without him. The odd thing is, even though that clearly indicates he was very much the man at the centre of it all, you actually agree with it!


Naturally I agree with that. I just do not subsribe to the theory that Michael would have been the only one to pull it off, given that super team. Mika Hakkinen and Jacques Villeneuve could have done it as well. This is a common mistake of the Schumacher fans to put Michael on a pedestal above the other drivers, when he had extraordinary circumstances helping him achieve his career statistics.

#6365 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 17:36

SOURCE?


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#6366 Lifew12

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 17:43

Naturally I agree with that. I just do not subsribe to the theory that Michael would have been the only one to pull it off, given that super team. Mika Hakkinen and Jacques Villeneuve could have done it as well. This is a common mistake of the Schumacher fans to put Michael on a pedestal above the other drivers, when he had extraordinary circumstances helping him achieve his career statistics.


As I said, I don't want to get into the whole thing again but you are missing some vital points; Hakkinen didn't do what Michael did, and Villeneuve didn't do what Michael did, and neither was pursued by the people at Ferrari to be the one to drive the car. Michael was, and the fact that he has 7 world championships and 91 races forever puts him on a pedestal ahead of the other drivers of his era, whether you like him or not. I don't think the circumstances were extraordinary as such - they didn't, after all, appear out of nowhere. He, and others, made those circumstances, created them carefully and meticulously, while teh rest failed to do so. I seriously doubt that Hakkinen - fan as I am - would have had the same ability thanks to a more lackadaisical approach, and we know from the BAR debacle that Villeneuve did not have it either.

I don't think it's so much a 'theory' that Michael was the only one who could have pulled it off - it's a historically proven fact; he did it, and we all watched it happen.

This is what I was getting at the other day with my comments about you insisting on putting the man down all the time; given what we've all watched unfold and occur over his time in the sport it's impossible to accept and admit anything other than the fact that he was the most influential and driven racing driver of the time. Without him, Ferrari certainly would not have pulled off what they did.


#6367 aditya-now

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 18:20

I don't think it's so much a 'theory' that Michael was the only one who could have pulled it off - it's a historically proven fact; he did it, and we all watched it happen.


The comparison with JV and MH is not a proven fact, because you would have to run two parallel universes to do the comparison, one with Jacques Villeneuve at Ferrari and one with Mika Hakkinen at Ferrari.

Other than that, yours, as well as mine, is just a theory. I sometimes wonder how scientific people can get - if no one else was in the situation that Michael was in, how does that prove that no one else would have done it?

Without him, Ferrari certainly would not have pulled off what they did.


Which is exactly what "certainly" can not be proved just by claiming it. Others could have done it as well - this also cannot be proved. Yet, it does not prove that Michael is the only one who could have done it. I suggest a course in logical thinking at your nearby university.


#6368 ivand911

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 19:53

You have this discussion 2-3 days ago. For now it is proven fact that only Michael did it. Everything else is speculation. I also doubt that other driver starting from 1996 like Michael in Ferrari could do it. Especially without Brawn and Bourne from Benetton. I think they(Ferrari+ this driver) can achieve better result than Alessi and Berger, but not such huge success. But, I can't bet about the last one. Now, lets sleep we have FP1/FP2 early in the morning. :)

Edited by ivand911, 07 October 2010 - 19:58.


#6369 arknor

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 20:08

You have this discussion 2-3 days ago. For now it is proven fact that only Michael did it. Everything else is speculation. I also doubt that other driver starting from 1996 like Michael in Ferrari could do it. Especially without Brawn and Bourne from Benetton. I think they(Ferrari+ this driver) can achieve better result than Alessi and Berger, but not such huge success. But, I can't bet about the last one. Now, lets sleep we have FP1/FP2 early in the morning. :)

steadiily improving each year means almost nothing aswell , weve all seen teams steadily improving and then fall off to nowhere again even quicker.

some teams managed to be world championship dominating cars for 1-2 seasons then fell off a cliff.

maybe someone else could have won 1-2 championships at ferrari but it takes something special to be championship contenders every year for around a decade

#6370 DontPanic

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 20:18

You have this discussion 2-3 days ago. For now it is proven fact that only Michael did it. Everything else is speculation. I also doubt that other driver starting from 1996 like Michael in Ferrari could do it. Especially without Brawn and Bourne from Benetton. I think they(Ferrari+ this driver) can achieve better result than Alessi and Berger, but not such huge success. But, I can't bet about the last one. Now, lets sleep we have FP1/FP2 early in the morning. :)


Well, as a starting point Schumacher had pretty much the same baseline as Mansell and Prost. Mansell dragged the Ferrari to 4th in his first year, and Prost to 2nd. Schumacher slotted in between in 3rd. I would suggest that saying that ONLY Schumacher could have done this is rather silly.

As another point, this is all relying on the previous year where the car came 3rd in the WCC for both Prost and Schumacher. In the year before Alonso joined, Ferrari came 4th, yet so far he has 4 wins with 4 races still to go, yet Schumacher managed only 3 wins in the entire year, and Prost managed 5. All from a better starting point than this year.



#6371 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 20:28

Thanks for the link, cheapracer, remarkable article.

I think they all should come back: Mika Hakkinen, Ralf Schumacher and David Coulthard. Together with Michael Schumacher they will show the young drivers of today what F1 racing really is all about! :up:


talentless nepotism?

Ralf and Dave are booming in DTM.

#6372 aditya-now

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 23:12

talentless nepotism?

Ralf and Dave are booming in DTM.



You are right, here in Germany they are venerated like Gods! They score the odd 10th or 14th place in DTM :lol:

#6373 baddog

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 23:40

In response to responses to me, I merely noted that the mere fact of the team achieving minor success before 1996 does nothing to minimise the achievement from there on, which was absolutely huge. The minor success is a necessary precursor to dominance, to be sure, but whats important is that it is not in any way an indicator or a guarantee of it.

Some other groups at teams have of course gone on to achieve that great success.. and they too deserve the plaudits for that. The problem here is that people do not wish to give any, let alone sufficient, credit where it is due in that one case. Everyone else can have credit, but Michael was just a lucky passenger? I dont think so. He was a leader, a focus, a point of consistent excellence and achievement that both attracted great people and gave the team spirit and a basis on which to build. They knew that if they provided the car then he WOULD bring the wins and championships, and that is worth more than is being acknowledged.

Also while some examples given here were impressive, some were less so. Mansell and Prost went to Ferrari and with them achieved some success, but it was not sustained and with it they brought problems on many levels, and eventually had a destructive effect long term. That is not the case with Michael at Ferrari.

#6374 aditya-now

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 23:55

In response to responses to me, I merely noted that the mere fact of the team achieving minor success before 1996 does nothing to minimise the achievement from there on, which was absolutely huge. The minor success is a necessary precursor to dominance, to be sure, but whats important is that it is not in any way an indicator or a guarantee of it.

Some other groups at teams have of course gone on to achieve that great success.. and they too deserve the plaudits for that. The problem here is that people do not wish to give any, let alone sufficient, credit where it is due in that one case. Everyone else can have credit, but Michael was just a lucky passenger? I dont think so. He was a leader, a focus, a point of consistent excellence and achievement that both attracted great people and gave the team spirit and a basis on which to build. They knew that if they provided the car then he WOULD bring the wins and championships, and that is worth more than is being acknowledged.

Also while some examples given here were impressive, some were less so. Mansell and Prost went to Ferrari and with them achieved some success, but it was not sustained and with it they brought problems on many levels, and eventually had a destructive effect long term. That is not the case with Michael at Ferrari.


In response to responses to responses to me, the minor success of Ferrari pre-Schumacher can indeed be ignored. It was only the most successful team of all time before Schumacher and still is.

Mansell/Prost have not been mentioned by me, your mentioning them serves to lead away from the original discussion, as you well know. Also you refrain from naming Lotus, Williams and McLaren as well as the other two great eras of Ferrari, as suits your argument. I notice your sharp wit and congratulate you on it. Still, it is just dodging the argument.

Schumacher was the lead driver of the third major period in Ferrari´s success, the first having been Alberto Ascari (and consequently Fangio), the second Niki Lauda (consequently Scheckter). The difference is that in the 50s and even 70s F1 drivers did not have such longevity like in the 90s and 2000s, nor was there in the 50s such an enormous amount of GPs per season, so that relativates the look at the statistics. Death was around the corner at every other weekend and seasons had 7 or 8 races only.

While Schumacher has been the lead driver of the 3rd great era of Ferrari and deserves all credit for it, he had also an international super team around himself (unlike Ascari and Lauda), that had been build up and financed step by step by Luca di Montezemolo, so all these factors together meant that Schumacher could enjoy success unequalled to anything else in the history of the sport. I am sure that this fact has not escaped you.

#6375 scheivlak

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 00:02

Also while some examples given here were impressive, some were less so. Mansell and Prost went to Ferrari and with them achieved some success, but it was not sustained and with it they brought problems on many levels, and eventually had a destructive effect long term. That is not the case with Michael at Ferrari.

What do you call "a destructive effect long term"?
Prost almost brought Ferrari the title in 1990 and left Ferrari at the end of the 1991 season. By the time we should be talking about long term effects of the Prost/Mansell era Ferrari was already on the way up and offered Michael contract.
But I don't think that is what you meant by mentioning a destructive effect ;)

In reality, the chain of events and developments was quite different. In 1991 Ferrari failed miserably, but certainly not in the first place because of their drivers. 1992 only showed how right Alain was in leaving the team. Just like Jean Todt showed how right Luca was in appointing him as a team boss after that dreadful year.
Without Jean in control, I don't think that Michael would have thought a second about joining the Scuderia. And with Michael, the team finally got from strength to strength.

Edited by scheivlak, 08 October 2010 - 00:03.


#6376 man

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 00:05

In response to responses to me, I merely noted that the mere fact of the team achieving minor success before 1996 does nothing to minimise the achievement from there on, which was absolutely huge. The minor success is a necessary precursor to dominance, to be sure, but whats important is that it is not in any way an indicator or a guarantee of it.

Some other groups at teams have of course gone on to achieve that great success.. and they too deserve the plaudits for that. The problem here is that people do not wish to give any, let alone sufficient, credit where it is due in that one case. Everyone else can have credit, but Michael was just a lucky passenger? I dont think so. He was a leader, a focus, a point of consistent excellence and achievement that both attracted great people and gave the team spirit and a basis on which to build. They knew that if they provided the car then he WOULD bring the wins and championships, and that is worth more than is being acknowledged.

Also while some examples given here were impressive, some were less so. Mansell and Prost went to Ferrari and with them achieved some success, but it was not sustained and with it they brought problems on many levels, and eventually had a destructive effect long term. That is not the case with Michael at Ferrari.


When the likes of Mansell and Prost were at Ferrari they did everything that was expected of them as drivers. The difference between their time at Maranello and M Schumacher is that they had a nutter in the form of Cesare Fiorio as team manager while the hierarchy of Ferrari was a shambles at best. LdM was recruited in Novemeber 1991 - too late to make an impact for Ferraris on track performances for 1992 but the upward spiral the team went on from 1993 onwards is clear for all to see. M Schumacher was a driver that reaped the rewards of the strategic vision of LdM. Of course, giving credit to the people that are making the calls behind the scenes doesn't make for tabloid headlines for the simpletons so the tendency to heap praise on M Schumacher in particular is understandable. LdM transformed Ferrari with his strategic decisions just as Ron Dennis did for McLaren when he took control of what was a mess at McLaren. Put M Schumacher in a average team and he isn't all that is he? ;-)

A seriously talented driver can make the difference now and again but to sustain a thread for a decade requires top management first and foremost.

#6377 aditya-now

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:39



Solid showing by Michael in FP1 at Suzuka, one tenth ahead of Nico. He loves this track, so let´s see if he can keep it up...

Edited by aditya-now, 08 October 2010 - 02:52.


#6378 cheapracer

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:14

I seriously doubt that Hakkinen - fan as I am - would have had the same ability thanks to a more lackadaisical approach, and we know from the BAR debacle that Villeneuve did not have it either.

I don't think it's so much a 'theory' that Michael was the only one who could have pulled it off - it's a historically proven fact; he did it, and we all watched it happen.
Without him, Ferrari certainly would not have pulled off what they did.


Time warp allowing I think only Nelson Piquet and Mika could have matched the feat. Senna just wanted the fastest car, he would have jumped ship to McLaren in '98 when his 2 year contract was up.

It's not just about driving ability, it takes something special to stay with a team for 10 years as well - you have to get along and Prost for example proved that he didn't have that ability as falling outs with Renault, McLaren, Ferrari and Williams well proves.

MS's special isn't just about the driving, 10 years and a completely happy team and continuous car/team development over that period is something very unique and will probably never happen again ever (although theres an outside chance Hamilton may achieve it).

How many of you are happy working the same job and boss for just 2 or 3 years?

Wait till some of you nay sayers are Granddads and with little Johnny on your knee telling about how you watched the great Michael Schumacher race when you can finally see the forest past the trees.

#6379 marchi-91

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 03:27

Solid showing by Michael in FP1 at Suzuka, one tenth ahead of Nico. He loves this track, so let´s see if he can keep it up...



I think it will be the same as most tracks Michael has been better at but Rosberg will probably beat him through some stupid pit call.

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#6380 man

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:14

I think it will be the same as most tracks Michael has been better at but Rosberg will probably beat him through some stupid pit call.


Or more likely by just driving faster and having less crashes. ;-)

#6381 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 05:34

He was a leader, a focus, a point of consistent excellence and achievement that both attracted great people and gave the team spirit and a basis on which to build. They knew that if they provided the car then he WOULD bring the wins and championships, and that is worth more than is being acknowledged.

I am sure every team knows that if they provide their drivers with the right car, they would win. But it is not that easy to do that.
Michael and a leader? I thought Jean Todt was that, but I guess I was mistaken and it was really Chewmie sitting in Todt`s office 13 hours a day, while Todt was at the beach. Or is the "michael went to the factory and said 2 good words to all the guys working there every month" suddenly leadership?

Wait till some of you nay sayers are Granddads and with little Johnny on your knee telling about how you watched the great Michael Schumacher race when you can finally see the forest past the trees.

In that case I will give the full truths about what kind of a person schumacher was and especially put attention to the 2010 season where Mighty Michael sure has shown his greatness :rotfl:


I think it will be the same as most tracks Michael has been better at but Rosberg will probably beat him through some stupid pit call.

:rotfl:
Which tracks has michael been better than Rosberg at? Spain? Where else? Nowhere. One race in the whole of the season.


#6382 marchi-91

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:13

I am sure every team knows that if they provide their drivers with the right car, they would win. But it is not that easy to do that.
Michael and a leader? I thought Jean Todt was that, but I guess I was mistaken and it was really Chewmie sitting in Todt`s office 13 hours a day, while Todt was at the beach. Or is the "michael went to the factory and said 2 good words to all the guys working there every month" suddenly leadership?

In that case I will give the full truths about what kind of a person schumacher was and especially put attention to the 2010 season where Mighty Michael sure has shown his greatness :rotfl:


:rotfl:
Which tracks has michael been better than Rosberg at? Spain? Where else? Nowhere. One race in the whole of the season.


Australia, Monaco, Turkey, Valencia, Hungary and Spa

Edited by marchi-91, 08 October 2010 - 06:13.


#6383 rog

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:41

Australia, Monaco, Turkey, Valencia, Hungary and Spa



All is wrong except Spain, the one you forgot.

#6384 marchi-91

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:57

All is wrong except Spain, the one you forgot.


sure. Of course since Michael is up on Rosberg here thus far you don't have much to go on do you :lol: :lol:

#6385 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:57

Australia, Monaco, Turkey, Valencia, Hungary and Spa

:rotfl:
No, no, no, no, no and no.



#6386 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:58

sure. Of course since Michael is up on Rosberg here thus far you don't have much to go on do you :lol: :lol:

:rotfl: :rotfl: That is all you schumacher fans have these days, FP results.
In any case, what does todays FP result have to do with your claims that were obviously far from reality?

#6387 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 07:06

Well, as a starting point Schumacher had pretty much the same baseline as Mansell and Prost. Mansell dragged the Ferrari to 4th in his first year, and Prost to 2nd. Schumacher slotted in between in 3rd. I would suggest that saying that ONLY Schumacher could have done this is rather silly.

As another point, this is all relying on the previous year where the car came 3rd in the WCC for both Prost and Schumacher. In the year before Alonso joined, Ferrari came 4th, yet so far he has 4 wins with 4 races still to go, yet Schumacher managed only 3 wins in the entire year, and Prost managed 5. All from a better starting point than this year.

What Mansell and Prost achieve at Ferrari. They kick out the last one if I remember correctly. And Ferrari after 97/98 was never like the car from 1996. I remember car parts falling from the car, back then in 1996?

Edited by ivand911, 08 October 2010 - 07:28.


#6388 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 07:14

Australia, Monaco, Turkey, Valencia, Hungary and Spa

Yes,yes,yes,yes, no, 0,5yes. Today good FP from the man of the topic title. He was quick with heavy car. Hope they don't have SS tyres again.


#6389 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 07:14

Eh? Ferrari 96 were better than Ferrari 2010?

#6390 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 07:36

Eh? Ferrari 96 were better than Ferrari 2010?

Not, according to me. But, somebody(DontPanic) think that you can compare them. But, maybe according to Michael, 1996 car is not the worst car he drove in F1. :)

Edited by ivand911, 08 October 2010 - 07:41.


#6391 Lifew12

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 08:35

The difference is that in the 50s and even 70s F1 drivers did not have such longevity like in the 90s and 2000s, nor was there in the 50s such an enormous amount of GPs per season, so that relativates the look at the statistics. Death was around the corner at every other weekend and seasons had 7 or 8 races only.


Not quite; there were many more than seven or eigght Grand prix in a season, but not all of them counted for the world championship for drivers. Full works efforts were still entered, however. If you count these in, and they shouldbe counted, the statistics begin to look somewhat different.


While Schumacher has been the lead driver of the 3rd great era of Ferrari and deserves all credit for it, he had also an international super team around himself (unlike Ascari and Lauda), that had been build up and financed step by step by Luca di Montezemolo,


That's rubbish; in the Ascari days the Ferrari team was just about the most professional in the sport, and in the 70's had teh very best personnel available.

so all these factors together meant that Schumacher could enjoy success unequalled to anything else in the history of the sport. I am sure that this fact has not escaped you.


Of course, but the fact you're not mentioning is that he wasn't the only driver to have driven in an era when all those factors came together; he was the only one to win seven titles.


#6392 Scotracer

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 08:58

Everyone appears to be forgetting Monaco. He was faster than Nico the entire weekend but for a stupid call in qualifying for the cars to run too close together and then that...erm...arguable penalty in the race.




#6393 JackTorrance

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:21

Damn. Not motivated/way past it shumi looked right on it vs glory boy, the second coming himself britney rosberg.

Im sure its because of the huge bias inside the mercedes gp garages towards shumi.



#6394 arknor

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:22

Everyone appears to be forgetting Monaco. He was faster than Nico the entire weekend but for a stupid call in qualifying for the cars to run too close together and then that...erm...arguable penalty in the race.

i wouldnt waste your breath they know the facts but choose to ignore them to serve their own purpose which isnt to have inteligent discussion

#6395 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:23

Schumacher encouraged by Friday form

By Pablo Elizalde Friday, October 8th 2010, 08:15 GMT

Michael Schumacher was encouraged by his car's pace in practice for the Japanese Grand Prix, the Mercedes driver admitting it was stronger than expected.

Schumacher posted the eighth quickest time of the day in the afternoon, having finished in the same position in the morning.

"I'm pleased with our practice today as the car looks better than I had expected here and I didn't face any real issues," said Schumacher

"So now we hope for a clean qualifying tomorrow where we will try to achieve as much as we can."

#6396 RedBaron

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:28

i wouldnt waste your breath they know the facts but choose to ignore them to serve their own purpose which isnt to have inteligent discussion


Agreed.

Remember no matter what. There will be a reason for why Schumacher beats Rosberg, if it's FP - it's only FP. If it's the race, Nico had issues. If it's scrabble, Schumacher got lucky with the letters. It's an utterly pointless challenge.

You have to understand these guys who dislike Schumacher have had to put up with seasons of Schumacher utterly dominating and 5 years in a row of Championships... they've gone absolutely insane watching that and the only thing they have now is an off come back season and they're milking it for everything it's wroth, milking it to death. They need this moment, so let them have it, ha!

#6397 JackTorrance

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:31

You have to understand these guys who dislike Schumacher have had to put up with seasons of Schumacher utterly dominating and 5 years in a row of Championships... they've gone absolutely insane watching that and the only thing they have now is an off come back season and they're milking it for everything it's wroth, milking it to death. They need this moment, so let them have it, ha!



Yep. :up:

#6398 Lifew12

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:36

Time warp allowing I think only Nelson Piquet and Mika could have matched the feat.


Piquet? I doubtthat very much.

Prost for example proved that he didn't have that ability as falling outs with Renault, McLaren, Ferrari and Williams well proves.


Not sure when Prost 'fell out' with Williams, or Mclaren for that matter.

10 years and a completely happy team and continuous car/team development over that period is something very unique


No it's not. Clark did 9 with Lotus, for a start.



#6399 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:40

Yes,yes,yes,yes, no, 0,5yes. Today good FP from the man of the topic title. He was quick with heavy car. Hope they don't have SS tyres again.

No, he was slower than Nico in all those races and in various of those races spent time holding Nico up (Turkey and Monaco being best examples of that)

Weird how this thread is all silent now that MSC is kicking Rosberg's behind in P1 and P2.

:rotfl: :rotfl:
Schumie fans are really desperate. It is a shame I will be away the whole weekend and cant witness another beating given to Schumie by Nico.

Everyone appears to be forgetting Monaco. He was faster than Nico the entire weekend but for a stupid call in qualifying for the cars to run too close together and then that...erm...arguable penalty in the race.

Nico was held up by Schumie for almost the whole race, on free track he would have destroyed MS again.

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#6400 arknor

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:43

so what your saying is nico isnt capable of overtaking?