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#6401 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:45

so what your saying is nico isnt capable of overtaking?

Yeah, another stupid post by you. Trying to overtake your teammate with an equal car at monaco is really going to work :rolleyes:

But on another note I think Nico is an average driver, so that Schumie is getting humiliated by him makes it all the funnier and amusing to me.

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#6402 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:50

Can posters please quit the flamebaiting.

#6403 arknor

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 09:54

Yeah, another stupid post by you. Trying to overtake your teammate with an equal car at monaco is really going to work :rolleyes:

But on another note I think Nico is an average driver, so that Schumie is getting humiliated by him makes it all the funnier and amusing to me.

well if he was faster why didnt he get past at the pitstops?

i think redbarons point is proven

Agreed.

Remember no matter what. There will be a reason for why Schumacher beats Rosberg, if it's FP - it's only FP. If it's the race, Nico had issues. If it's scrabble, Schumacher got lucky with the letters. It's an utterly pointless challenge.

You have to understand these guys who dislike Schumacher have had to put up with seasons of Schumacher utterly dominating and 5 years in a row of Championships... they've gone absolutely insane watching that and the only thing they have now is an off come back season and they're milking it for everything it's wroth, milking it to death. They need this moment, so let them have it, ha!



#6404 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:02

well if he was faster why didnt he get past at the pitstops?

He had built a big enough gap to come out in front of schumacher at monaco, but then he got stuck in traffic again (behind Webber who was in no hurry and was just saving his tyres with what he had to do the rest of the race with) and lost all the time he had gained on MS.
If Mercedes had pitted him at the right time, he would have come out in front of MS for sure, but they made another tactical mistake.

The moment MS pitted, Nico started lapping 2,5 seconds quicker than he had been.

#6405 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:06

He had built a big enough gap to come out in front of schumacher at monaco, but then he got stuck in traffic again (behind Webber who was in no hurry and was just saving his tyres with what he had to do the rest of the race with) and lost all the time he had gained on MS.
If Mercedes had pitted him at the right time, he would have come out in front of MS for sure, but they made another tactical mistake.

The moment MS pitted, Nico started lapping 2,5 seconds quicker than he had been.

MGP team did a lot of tactical mistakes which put Michael behind Nico. Valencia,Germany,Monaco(in the end). So many mistakes in Qualy, Michael driving behind Nico. Loosing time.


#6406 RedBaron

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:16

The moment MS pitted, Nico started lapping 2,5 seconds quicker than he had been.


Wasn't Schumacher behind someone on track too before he pitted... so the way you are twisting the facts to make it look like Rosberg was 2.5 seconds a lap quicker than Schumacher is utter nonsense and a waste of everyone's time?

#6407 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:24

MGP team did a lot of tactical mistakes which put Michael behind Nico. Valencia,Germany,Monaco(in the end). So many mistakes in Qualy, Michael driving behind Nico. Loosing time.

But in all those races MS was slower than Nico.

Wasn't Schumacher behind someone on track too before he pitted... so the way you are twisting the facts to make it look like Rosberg was 2.5 seconds a lap quicker than Schumacher is utter nonsense and a waste of everyone's time?


so ms cant overtake?

but yes, he was behind Barrichello, the reason I brought that up was to point out how silly the point arknor made was (about overtaking).

#6408 eoin

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:30

Wasn't Schumacher behind someone on track too before he pitted... so the way you are twisting the facts to make it look like Rosberg was 2.5 seconds a lap quicker than Schumacher is utter nonsense and a waste of everyone's time?


Rubens- who just happened to pit on the same lap as Schumacher.

There certainly does seem to be a trend in Schumacher's performances where he does well on flowing tracks, or at least tracks that don't have heavy braking/acceleration zones, which would reinforce the view that he can't get the best out of the front tyres with this car.

#6409 RedBaron

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:33

so ms cant overtake?


So Rosberg can't overtake... after all apparently he's 2.5 seconds a lap quicker!

#6410 Augurk

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:38

Hahaha, Schuey faster than Rosberg. Well, if Hamilton hadn't crashed, Rosberg would've definitely beaten Schuey in both practices.

#6411 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:38

So Rosberg can't overtake... after all apparently he's 2.5 seconds a lap quicker!

Again, you failed to understand the point I was making, so that you could be helped with that, refer to the post arknor made on the top of this page.

#6412 RedBaron

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 10:40

Again, you failed to understand the point I was making, so that you could be helped with that, refer to the post arknor made on the top of this page.


I see, my apologies.

#6413 arknor

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 11:15

Again, you failed to understand the point I was making, so that you could be helped with that, refer to the post arknor made on the top of this page.

yea which was in reply to your post saying nico was held up by ms in "Australia, Monaco, Turkey, Valencia, Hungary and Spa"

so what about the other races?

#6414 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 11:15

Rubens- who just happened to pit on the same lap as Schumacher.

There certainly does seem to be a trend in Schumacher's performances where he does well on flowing tracks, or at least tracks that don't have heavy braking/acceleration zones, which would reinforce the view that he can't get the best out of the front tyres with this car.


Indeed. Monaco was an exception to this trend however.

He did well today to get ahead of Rosberg.

#6415 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 11:19

But in all those races MS was slower than Nico.

Not sure about that. Since when faster guys always win? You could be faster and finish behind slower guy. You have problem with that? Only Alonso have this right, when he is faster. :rotfl: As I see you have this so called "Team order disorder". :rotfl:

Edited by ivand911, 08 October 2010 - 11:21.


#6416 aditya-now

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:08

Not quite; there were many more than seven or eigght Grand prix in a season, but not all of them counted for the world championship for drivers. Full works efforts were still entered, however. If you count these in, and they shouldbe counted, the statistics begin to look somewhat different.


Ah, so you are saying that the non-championship races (should) figure in the statistics? I haven´t seen that...and no one ever thought they should. Maybe you can rewrite history then to suit your argument.



That's rubbish; in the Ascari days the Ferrari team was just about the most professional in the sport, and in the 70's had teh very best personnel available.


Name me one engineer or team manager at Ferrari in the 50s who had the same pedigree of international expertise like Jean Todt, Ross Brawn or Rory Byrne.

Concerning the 70s: you obviously have not read Lauda´s book "Protocol - my years at Ferrari", what with the Nosetto's and Cuoghi's? What with the grande casino rampant in the Scuderia those days? In general you seem to just contradict for contradicting's sake without having any hard evidence behind.



ge

Of course, but the fact you're not mentioning is that he wasn't the only driver to have driven in an era when all those factors came together; he was the only one to win seven titles.


Michael was, and congrats to him for it. Yet he was the only one for whom these factors came together in the 90s and 2000s - who else had a # 1 clause in his contract, team strategies following foot and Byrne, Brawn, Todt, FIA and Bridgestone working for him? Which other team has it's own private test track like Ferrari and could use it in an unlimited way in the 90s and 2000s?

So your argument is poor, he was the only driver in this era for whom all those factor came together.

How is Schumacher looking nowadays, with no unlimited testing? A seventh or eighth place becomes heavily celebrated like today in Suzuka, because this is the max that Michael can get without these special factors that worked in his favour all these years. Of course, apart from that, he has become older.





#6417 Lifew12

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:39

Ah, so you are saying that the non-championship races (should) figure in the statistics? I haven´t seen that...and no one ever thought they should. Maybe you can rewrite history then to suit your argument.


Not at all; I'm sayong your claim that there were only 7 or 8 races a year is not quite true. Unfortunately it's what a great number of the younger fans of the sport believe, and that's because they view the statistics involving only th world championship races. Let's imagine that Michael Schumacher raced in the 1950's, for Ferrari; if you happen to look at the full calendar of Grands Prix for a given year you'll find, as I'm sure you know, that as a works Ferrari driver (or maserati, or vanwall, lotus, connaught, whoever) he would have taken part in a further 10, maybe mroe, Grands Prix that were just as competetive (full works teams etc) as those that counted towards the world championship for drivers. That's a season of 18 races, just as we have now. It's easy to dismiss them because they weren't championship races, but a knowledgable fan such as yourself will know that these were just a prestigious, and often carried greater prize money. Ignoring those races - and they carried on right up to the early 1980's, with lesser frequency - is not getting the bigger picture. I'm not rewritign history in advising peopl to look at those races too, I'm simply including bits of history that are - cruelly - missed out thanks to the modern obsession with the world championship. You know as well as I do that teh Silverstone International Trophy was as prestigious a race as any. The upshot of this is that had Michael Schumacher been a works Ferrari driver in the 1950's those books would record that he won X Grands Prix when, in fact, he won many more. Ascari is recorded as winning 13 - he won many more.


Name me one engineer or team manager at Ferrari in the 50s who had the same pedigree of international expertise like Jean Todt, Ross Brawn or Rory Byrne.


Shall we start with Lampedri? You can fill in the rest.

Concerning the 70s: you obviously have not read Lauda´s book "Protocol - my years at Ferrari", what with the Nosetto's and Cuoghi's? What with the grande casino rampant in the Scuderia those days? In general you seem to just contradict for contradicting's sake without having any hard evidence behind.


You miss my point; Ferrari in the mid-1970's was one of the, if not the, best organised F1 teams of all, with the best calibre of engineers and technical brains in the business. Then was different to now, the level of professionalism was not anywhere close to todays.


So your argument is poor, he was the only driver in this era for whom all those factor came together.


No, it's not poor; he's the only driver from that era who made it come together. You are falling into this trap, again, of believing that the Ferrari team woul have been the same without Schumacher, yet you've already admitted it wouldn't. Michael lobbied Brawn and Byrne to join him there - that's fact, not fiction. Who else did that, who else wielded that sort of influence? Hill? Hakkinen? No, they didn't, did they? They took what they were given, and they did their best with it.

Quite why you can't see that is a mystery to me. Well, no, it's not; it's because you don't want to see it. We're back to square one.

How is Schumacher looking nowadays, with no unlimited testing? A seventh or eighth place becomes heavily celebrated like today in Suzuka, because this is the max that Michael can get without these special factors that worked in his favour all these years. Of course, apart from that, he has become older.


You think Hakkinen would do any better? I don't.


#6418 arknor

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:59

How is Schumacher looking nowadays, with no unlimited testing? A seventh or eighth place becomes heavily celebrated like today in Suzuka, because this is the max that Michael can get without these special factors that worked in his favour all these years. Of course, apart from that, he has become older.

because alonso or hamilton in the same car would be winning races ? :rolleyes:

#6419 aditya-now

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 14:16

Not at all; I'm sayong your claim that there were only 7 or 8 races a year is not quite true. Unfortunately it's what a great number of the younger fans of the sport believe, and that's because they view the statistics involving only th world championship races. Let's imagine that Michael Schumacher raced in the 1950's, for Ferrari; if you happen to look at the full calendar of Grands Prix for a given year you'll find, as I'm sure you know, that as a works Ferrari driver (or maserati, or vanwall, lotus, connaught, whoever) he would have taken part in a further 10, maybe mroe, Grands Prix that were just as competetive (full works teams etc) as those that counted towards the world championship for drivers. That's a season of 18 races, just as we have now. It's easy to dismiss them because they weren't championship races, but a knowledgable fan such as yourself will know that these were just a prestigious, and often carried greater prize money. Ignoring those races - and they carried on right up to the early 1980's, with lesser frequency - is not getting the bigger picture. I'm not rewritign history in advising peopl to look at those races too, I'm simply including bits of history that are - cruelly - missed out thanks to the modern obsession with the world championship. You know as well as I do that teh Silverstone International Trophy was as prestigious a race as any. The upshot of this is that had Michael Schumacher been a works Ferrari driver in the 1950's those books would record that he won X Grands Prix when, in fact, he won many more. Ascari is recorded as winning 13 - he won many more.


I know that Ascari won many more, which is why you surprise me with your Schumacherisms. Also, Michael may not have survived the 50s with his driving style, bumping into other people´s cars, Silverstone 1999 etc....


Shall we start with Lampedri? You can fill in the rest.


Ah, so you do know a little bit of F1 history, scarcely, though. One Lampedri does not equal Todt, Brawn, Byrne and Martinelli, one Lampedri equals Martinelli.


You miss my point; Ferrari in the mid-1970's was one of the, if not the, best organised F1 teams of all, with the best calibre of engineers and technical brains in the business. Then was different to now, the level of professionalism was not anywhere close to todays.


For the 1970s you obviously draw a blank: Ferrari in the 1970s were utterly disorganized, the term "grande casino" had become a mainstay for characterising the team in those days. Niki Lauda, Luca di Montezemolo and Mauro Forghieri pulled together what they could, but it was in no way on the level of the 1990s super team, from which Schumacher benefited very nicely.


You think Hakkinen would do any better? I don't.


I think Mika Hakkinen could have achieved the same success in a different way, given the super team. Not better, but different. And definitely more human and more gracious than MS. Schumacher is not the outstanding driver of all times you make him up to be - statistics are not everything, as you so eloquently explained concerning the 50s. It is the spirit in which the wins are taken, and in that department Schumacher will always lag behind.

Note also that Schumacher had greatest respect for Mika Hakkinen, he always called him his worthy opponent. Champions know other champions.

We are not back to square one, by the way. Two or three days ago already I suggested to agree to disagree. Yet you insist on pushing your viewpoints, which I accept as your viewpoints, yet will not make my own, no matter how much you insist on it. As you are free to believe what you want to believe, I am as well.

The "proofs" you have put forward are at best claims, no scientific hard facts. Neither are mine, as this subject cannot be proven, neither one way nor the other. So once again, let us agree to disagree - if you can´t, it also says something about you.



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#6420 Paco

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 14:24

OMG #1... shades of 2011 at Mercedes already on it's way. All the changes Mercedes have been making to make MS comfortable are starting to take form and MS is already ahead of Rosberg. Imagine what will happen next season!

OMG #2... Michael takes Nico chassis for a spin and is instantly faster then Nico and Nico has the same complaints Michaels had all year. Overnight, I'm sure they'll find something that was wrong on Michaels car all year... Might have to do with a rogue software engineer tampering with Michaels settings!

OMG #3... HEADLINE "MICHAEL IS FINALLY BACK!"

ROTFLMAO...

just had to .. couldn't resist ... like soooo many on here would actually believe those to b true..

ALL JOKES ASIDE. Friday's results. Meaningless for Mercedes.

Edited by Paco, 08 October 2010 - 14:26.


#6421 MightyMoose

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 15:16

I've read this thread with some bemusement at the considerable trolling & sheer pleasure in ridiculing Schumacher for his performances throughout his career. Now if we were solely concentrating on 2010, everyone will surely agree he's been very disappointing and not living up to the expectations set at the beginning of the year. However it's also clear that there are some circumstances that have led to his results not actually reflecting the performance showed.

I have generally seen him being very racey on the opening laps, often picking up 3 or 4 positions (yes, to satisfy the trolls he's able to because he did such a sh!t job in qualifying...zzzz), from there it's a slow slide backwards primarily due to the Merc being dog slow on the straights (has to run lots of downforce to accommodate the below par chassis, the Merc engine is of course one of the best). Take a slow car on the straight, with tyres that the driver can't get to work and you have a sitting target. I don't see NR gaining any postions throughout the race either which would tend to back up the gutless straightline performance.

Sidenote: How is it that when Button and others struggle with getting the tyres to work it's a perfectly acceptable excuse, but not in MS case?

Race strategy has been primarily crap from MERC this year, both drivers have been screwed out of positions by poor pit calls etc, when Ross Brawn worked at Ferrari, they often made McLaren appear silly..... perhaps he needs to take more control over the race engineers decision making process, because some of the teamwork has been amateur not only in the race, but also qualifying. Monaco last lap move was brilliant however, the fact it cost them not only the position, but any points at all only raised no outrage because it was MS.

Ok, now to his history, there is a thread elsewhere detailing the driver of the decade... unsurprisingly MS is leading that poll substantially. To claim "many other drivers could have done what he did at Ferrari" is an insult to what was achieved there. When he signed for Ferrari in 96, that car was a truck, it drove as ugly as it looked, he was the reigning champion who could have gone anywhere he wanted, he was attracted by the dream of bringing Ferrari to the top. Ferrari were hardly on an upswing at that time either, they'd won 2 races in 5 years. It's generally accepted that when Berger/Alesi tried the 95 Benetton they couldn't get near his times, when he drove the 95 Ferrari, he went faster than they'd been all season.

Out of his 7 titles, which seasons was he in clearly the best team? 94,2002,2004 - maybe 2001 as well. 95 is open to debate, 2003 went with the tyres as to which team was faster each weekend. MS elevated the team beyond what it should have been capable of. Yes, he used all the advantages he could, yes his on track ethics were questionable on a nauseatingly regular basis, but he "wasn't only the best number 1, he's the best number 2 as well" -- Eddie Irvine said that, and let's face it, praise comes from him as often as Haley's comet.

Todt, Brawn, Byrne & Schumacher created a super team, some will get more praise than others in that group, but to downplay any one of them is to be blinkered to the facts. Where they spotless? Absolutely not, they tried every possible trick in the book, some of them even worked. Austria 02 will always remain a black spot on the F1 history (though why people, especially Barrichello omit to mention the 3 races he was gifted that season as payback remains a question as to their impartiality).

Overall I expected/hoped for more this season, I remain convinced that the ability though dimmed, could still be enough for MS to win again.... time will tell.. Regardless he deserves respect for his career imo.
MM

#6422 Lifew12

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 15:36

I know that Ascari won many more, which is why you surprise me with your Schumacherisms. Also, Michael may not have survived the 50s with his driving style, bumping into other people´s cars, Silverstone 1999 etc....


Of course, a Michael in the 50's would have been a different Michael to that of now. I was simply explaining my reasoning for suggesting the non-championship races from the earlier eras should be looked at. I find it rather sad that they are overlooked and largely forgotten these days.

Ah, so you do know a little bit of F1 history


I know a lot of F1 history, my friend, even if I say it myself. I prefer to refer to Grands Prix rather than f1 as I recognise the sport is over a hundred years old not just 60 (or, as many would have us think, 20!). I am passionate about my motor sport history and have a library of books that cover every aspect, every era, etc. My main interest lies in the 1930's and the 1980's, two era's poles apart but with quite a lot in common. I could, if you wish, reel off a list of important, repected, members of the 1950's Ferrari teams, but you know that so I won't bother. My point is simply that in every era, at every team, there are peopl who are very clever, respected and talented. It was the same in 1906 as it is now. The only difference is th area that is given the most attention has changed. In the 1950's the engine was king. That's why Lampredi is worth a mention.

For the 1970s you obviously draw a blank: Ferrari in the 1970s were utterly disorganized, the term "grande casino" had become a mainstay for characterising the team in those days. Niki Lauda, Luca di Montezemolo and Mauro Forghieri pulled together what they could, but it was in no way on the level of the 1990s super team, from which Schumacher benefited very nicely.


You still miss my point. In the 1970's Ferrari were just about the most professional team in F1 with the best personnel possible. The 1990's level of professionalism - let alone that of the early 80's - had not been arrived at. Compared to the rest, Ferrari was a superb operation running at great levels of efficiency. You have to look at these thigns in context, rather than in comparison to today.

I think Mika Hakkinen could have achieved the same success


Well. we'll disagree on that one. I don't think he would.

The "proofs" you have put forward are at best claims, no scientific hard facts. Neither are mine, as this subject cannot be proven, neither one way nor the other. So once again, let us agree to disagree - if you can´t, it also says something about you.


I can, but you should really consider the reasons why it was Michael Schumacher, and not any other driver, who ended up in that super team, with those beneficial contracrts, with those fantastic people, and not, say, hakkinen, Hill or Villeneuve. That is really the most telling point of all. It didn't happen just by chance.


#6423 aditya-now

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 15:38

OMG #1... shades of 2011 at Mercedes already on it's way. All the changes Mercedes have been making to make MS comfortable are starting to take form and MS is already ahead of Rosberg. Imagine what will happen next season!

OMG #2... Michael takes Nico chassis for a spin and is instantly faster then Nico and Nico has the same complaints Michaels had all year. Overnight, I'm sure they'll find something that was wrong on Michaels car all year... Might have to do with a rogue software engineer tampering with Michaels settings!

OMG #3... HEADLINE "MICHAEL IS FINALLY BACK!"

ROTFLMAO...

just had to .. couldn't resist ... like soooo many on here would actually believe those to b true..

ALL JOKES ASIDE. Friday's results. Meaningless for Mercedes.


No joking - it´s good to see Michael doing well on a circuit he loves. Brings back some of the old feeling. If Michael is finally back we shall see, but to have next year a possible septet fighting for the WDC (Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton, Button, Webber, Rosberg, Vettel) is certainly a mouth-watering prospect. So roll on 2011, and let´s hope that Mercedes GP produce a car that suits Michael´s requirements, it will be maybe an even more marvellous season than 2010....


#6424 Urawa

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 15:44

"it´s good to see Michael doing well on a circuit he loves"

I doubt that´s a factor. It was predictable he would do well here simply because of the track layout.
He still has what it takes for those fast turns. Suzuka lacks slow sections so there is not much where he can struggle.
That´s also why I believe there is something to come for next year, I would be more worried if he would struggle in S1 at Suzuka or S2 in Spa - but he isn´t.

Edited by Urawa, 08 October 2010 - 15:44.


#6425 chrisblades85

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 15:44

Interesting to see what DC put in his column in Autosport this week about Schuey. And considering he has more eason to dislike the bloke, more than some t.v viewers. I'll respect his view more than some others.

#6426 Massa_f1

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 15:50

Interesting to see what DC put in his column in Autosport this week about Schuey. And considering he has more eason to dislike the bloke, more than some t.v viewers. I'll respect his view more than some others.



what did he say?

#6427 arknor

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 15:59

Schumi out if...

http://www.bild.de/B...n-mercedes.html

Q. (Alan Baldwin – Reuters) Norbert, I gather that there's a story from Bild saying that Mercedes have given Michael Schumacher an ultimatum to shape up or get out at the end of next season. Can you just give a comment on that, or a reaction?

NH: Well, this is an interpretation of what was said, but of course there was no ultimatum. I think Michael again showed today his class, his full commitment. We are currently a little bit handicapped with our car but I have no complaints and no regrets that we're going to achieve our target. We need to work hard. As I said before in a similar conference, we are sticking together and Michael is, for me, as good as he ever was and probably even better. He's relaxed, concentrated. He doesn't need anybody to defend him, certainly not me but we are very happy with the job he's doing and we need to give Nico (Rosberg) and him a better car. I think it's absolutely obvious that Nico has so far extracted what was possible from the car. Only on a very few occasions was this not the case. I think he learned a lot with Williams and if you would name one of the top guys that are currently young and experienced in Formula One you would certainly mention Nico. So Nico is a very good benchmark for probably everybody in the field. You would never know that, because you're only driving one car for one team but it's not easy for anybody to compete against such a guy and Michael does that quite well, not always in qualifying but if you look throughout the season, if you take into consideration that he was not in Formula One for three years, we are heading in the right direction and there is certainly not an ultimatum.

#6428 chrisblades85

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 16:00

I haven't got it on me, but he mentioned the fact EJ said he would sack him, but Michael is a big part of Merc strategy, but hasn't really delivered the car.. A lot depends on next year, saying if they do a good car, he could be the darling of F1 again.

But he's not done/doing a good job this year and getting involved in too many incidents and Rosberg is beating him way too often.

Come the 1st racer next season we will be able to see whether he's up/capable of it if the car is.


Like I said, I haven't got the actual article on me. But It's along the line of that. It was criticism but optimistic criticism, if that makes sense.



#6429 cheapracer

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 16:32

yea which was in reply to your post saying nico was held up by ms in "Australia, Monaco, Turkey, Valencia, Hungary and Spa"


Don't you have to be behind to be held up?

- and now people are pulling mid 1970's excuses for Schumachers success ..... ??

Edited by cheapracer, 08 October 2010 - 16:59.


#6430 iakhtar

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 17:02

Agreed.

Remember no matter what. There will be a reason for why Schumacher beats Rosberg, if it's FP - it's only FP. If it's the race, Nico had issues. If it's scrabble, Schumacher got lucky with the letters. It's an utterly pointless challenge.

You have to understand these guys who dislike Schumacher have had to put up with seasons of Schumacher utterly dominating and 5 years in a row of Championships... they've gone absolutely insane watching that and the only thing they have now is an off come back season and they're milking it for everything it's wroth, milking it to death. They need this moment, so let them have it, ha!


Haha brilliant!



#6431 arknor

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 17:06

Don't you have to be behind to be held up?

- and now people are pulling mid 1970's excuses for Schumachers success ..... ??

are you 2 people trapped in the same body? because you dont apear to be the same person posting on your account this morning , or you were drunk and dont remember what you said, its not me pulling stuff up from the 70s?

#6432 cheapracer

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 17:23

In that case I will give the full truths about what kind of a person schumacher was and especially put attention to the 2010 season where Mighty Michael sure has shown his greatness :rotfl:


You would sit your Grandson on your knee and tell him (invent) nasty stuff rather than inspire him to greatness?

Schumacher is and has been an inspiration to millions of kids (and big kids) who see the 260 good races while others seemingly revolve their lives around 4 races.

I know which side of the fence I want to be :cool:




#6433 cheapracer

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 17:25

are you 2 people trapped in the same body? because you dont apear to be the same person posting on your account this morning , or you were drunk and dont remember what you said, its not me pulling stuff up from the 70s?


Look at the post from a different view  ;)


#6434 Boing 2

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 17:36

You would sit your Grandson on your knee and tell him (invent) nasty stuff rather than inspire him to greatness?

Schumacher is and has been an inspiration to millions of kids (and big kids) who see the 260 good races while others seemingly revolve their lives around 4 races.

I know which side of the fence I want to be :cool:


Look at it another way, would you like to teach your kids that it doesn't matter what you do as long as you win in the end or would you like them to have some higher values?

#6435 tifosi4life

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 18:17

Look at it another way, would you like to teach your kids that it doesn't matter what you do as long as you win in the end or would you like them to have some higher values?


I would like to see the list of saints in the cars... I think its pretty short. Maybe once the top drivers have the amount of years under their belts as MS can we truly compare who has higher values.

#6436 Boing 2

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 18:30

I would like to see the list of saints in the cars... I think its pretty short. Maybe once the top drivers have the amount of years under their belts as MS can we truly compare who has higher values.


well, considering he was dripping with controversy after his 3rd full season i don't see why career length comes into it.


#6437 JackTorrance

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 18:48

well, considering he was dripping with controversy after his 3rd full season i don't see why career length comes into it.

He was also dripping with mind blowing drives by then. And he publicly tried to wipe the slate clean with Hill at that adelaide press conference.
Always try to find some compassion to remorsefull people. He who is without sin cast the first stone.

#6438 tifosi4life

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 18:51

well, considering he was dripping with controversy after his 3rd full season i don't see why career length comes into it.

I'm just stating that all have a drive to win, and MANY have done questionable things to get to the top step. Not sure if professional sports / business is an example that I would at least use to teach my son ethics. Just my 2 cents. Cheers!

#6439 BRK

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 02:59

Agreed.

Remember no matter what. There will be a reason for why Schumacher beats Rosberg, if it's FP - it's only FP. If it's the race, Nico had issues. If it's scrabble, Schumacher got lucky with the letters. It's an utterly pointless challenge.

You have to understand these guys who dislike Schumacher have had to put up with seasons of Schumacher utterly dominating and 5 years in a row of Championships... they've gone absolutely insane watching that and the only thing they have now is an off come back season and they're milking it for everything it's wroth, milking it to death. They need this moment, so let them have it, ha!


Spot-on! :up:

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#6440 cheapracer

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 05:38

well, considering he was dripping with controversy after his 3rd full season i don't see why career length comes into it.


WTF? Dripping with controversy? :rotfl:

The only controversy in my mind is how the hell can a driver be black flagged from a race for going in front on the warm up lap and why it took so long for the Stewards to impose it?? Schumacher was told by the team to stay out while they tried to get their heads around such an idiotic decision with the Stewards, which eventually was changed to a 5 second stop/go penalty that Schumacher served and that should have been the end of it but .....

Then theres the plank controversy at Spa, clearly the car (while way out in front and won the race too) slid on it's belly on the curb for a long time damaging the plank but unfortunately the rules didn't cover that type of damage (but were changed immediately after) - nothing but deserved sympathy for MS for that controversy.

Without that absolute idiotic 3 race ban for the warm up lap and the DSQ for the plank BS, Hill didn't stand a chance in hell in the 1994 WDC, Schumacher soundly flogged him in all but 2 races and heres the chart to remind you ....

http://en.wikipedia....final_standings

... what it doesn't tell you on that chart is that Schumacher drove to 1st place at Spa and 2nd place at Britain by merit but the points were taken from him, Schumacher rightfully and morally won the 1994 WDC but a number of people will just scream Adelaide 1994 where Hill ran into him from behind (you can't ram when you're in front) without a single consideration or mention of the other 15 races especially Belgium and Britain.

Besides that was all in 1994, please do tell me of all the controversy that was to be had in '92 and '93 ..... ??

Edited by cheapracer, 09 October 2010 - 05:41.


#6441 aditya-now

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 08:19

Without that absolute idiotic 3 race ban for the warm up lap and the DSQ for the plank BS, Hill didn't stand a chance in hell in the 1994 WDC, Schumacher soundly flogged him in all but 2 races and heres the chart to remind you ....

http://en.wikipedia....final_standings

... what it doesn't tell you on that chart is that Schumacher drove to 1st place at Spa and 2nd place at Britain by merit but the points were taken from him, Schumacher rightfully and morally won the 1994 WDC but a number of people will just scream Adelaide 1994 where Hill ran into him from behind (you can't ram when you're in front) without a single consideration or mention of the other 15 races especially Belgium and Britain.

Besides that was all in 1994, please do tell me of all the controversy that was to be had in '92 and '93 ..... ??


Is this TNF manifesting itself into Racing Comments? People don´t find enough in Schumacher´s 2010 successes, so they revert to 1994, 1993 and 1992?

#6442 Johnrambo

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 08:51

. And he publicly tried to wipe the slate clean with Hill at that adelaide press conference.


That MS was allowed to keep the 1994 WDC is the biggest travesty in the history of F1. Like police investigate old crimes with the help of new technology (DNA) I hope FIA will someday revisit the Adelaide case and award the championship to the real winner Damon Hill.

#6443 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 08:57

Why? Even 16 years later you can see how much Damon has to take part-responsibility for that accident.

#6444 arknor

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 09:45

Why? Even 16 years later you can see how much Damon has to take part-responsibility for that accident.

didnt damon say if he knew schumacher had gone off the track just before the incident happened he wouldnt have tried...

damon made it sound like he thought it was his only chance to get past so he took a big risk

Edited by arknor, 09 October 2010 - 11:34.


#6445 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 09:52

It was even worse than that, he panicked. He had a significant speed advantage as he came out of the previous corner, but he got on the brakes a little suddenly. Of course he had to slow down for the next corner, but if you watch the onboard closely he momentarily locks his wheel. From that point on he's not traveling much faster than Schumacher. In fact they're doing very similar speeds. But he wasn't fully enough along side him, and not having any momentum advantage anymore, the only outcome was the two of them were going to collide if they kept heading for the same spot. If Damon had waited, or kept his speed up, he would have been fine. But as it was, they both sort of drove into each other.

#6446 Massa_f1

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 10:45

It was even worse than that, he panicked. He had a significant speed advantage as he came out of the previous corner, but he got on the brakes a little suddenly. Of course he had to slow down for the next corner, but if you watch the onboard closely he momentarily locks his wheel. From that point on he's not traveling much faster than Schumacher. In fact they're doing very similar speeds. But he wasn't fully enough along side him, and not having any momentum advantage anymore, the only outcome was the two of them were going to collide if they kept heading for the same spot. If Damon had waited, or kept his speed up, he would have been fine. But as it was, they both sort of drove into each other.



Damon has admitted he was also half to blame for years. The haters choose to ignore this fact though.

Edited by Massa_f1, 09 October 2010 - 10:45.


#6447 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 11:13

Yeah. The bulletin board, and in particular this thread, is overrun with Hill bashers.

#6448 JackTorrance

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 11:21

Yeah. The bulletin board, and in particular this thread, is overrun with Hill bashers.



At that same press conference, Gerhard berger, Martin Brundle and Hills teammate, Nigel Mansell, stated Schumacher deserved the championship because of his great season.

And the only bashing I see in this thread, is on Schumacher.

Schumacher publicly apologised for things he said about Hill during the season, and offered to bury the hatchet. Hill was having none of that and continued a war of words in the media, wich led to more bad sentiments between these 2 drivers during the 1995 season. At least the German tried. You should have some respect for that, or is that impossible in your red mist?

#6449 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 12:10

Err, I think you'll find I was defending Schumacher.

#6450 arknor

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 12:30

Yeah. The bulletin board, and in particular this thread, is overrun with Hill bashers.

i think you will find its the oposite in this thread, its full of schumacher bashers who would defend hill even if he was wrong aslong as they could have a go at schumacher