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#601 rog

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:00

But you also need to notice that whenever the two of them set lap times on comparable (somewhat steady conditions), Schumacher was always faster.



This is not really true if you look depper into it. In Q1 Schumacher was a little bit earlier on track, conditions getting worse at this stage. Even with this small disadvantage Rosberg was only 3 tenths behind. In Q2 first try Schumacher was on intermediates, Rosberg on full wets. At this time intermediates were much better. It is clear that Schumacher was faster with the better tyres. Later Rosberg switched to intermediates and drove faster than Schumacher. Q3 Rosberg was faster, even his third flying lap he would be faster as Schumachers best time there.

Edited by rog, 03 April 2010 - 14:01.


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#602 cheapracer

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:03

To be fair, what he does now doesn't tell much about the past, if anything. What it does tell is that right here right now, at the age of 41 and after a 3 year break, MS isn't that special anymore.

Come on, even his fans must admit that. Those were precisley the difficult conditions today he and Brawn used to excel in, because MS made it work most of the time. No excuses like "I planned to push the next lap" back then, because he had the confidence to go all out every lap.

Overall he's still doing far from bad, but the magic seems gone.


To be fair the greatest people present and past in F1 who are infinately more knowledgeable on the subject than you have all said it will take AT LEAST 4 races to get to a competitive level in the current climate.

So after 2 races and a mixed qualy session where even the current best failed you and others are posting this and seeking/hoping for every wrong step to base your post's on?

Sad.

If by the 5th or 6th race he is still uncompetitive and not mixing it, car withstanding, with the top 4 I will agree with you.

While I don't think he will win tomorrow even in mixed weather, I think theres a real potential for a podium.


#603 h_nair47

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:04

Today for the first time in the years I have been watching MS,MS showed that he had no self confidence.He had pace today just not the confidence to go at it every lap.
Maybe he has really lost it for ever. It was sad to watch from a die hard fan.

Edited by h_nair47, 03 April 2010 - 14:05.


#604 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:10

confidence to attack is the only thing you have to build
if pace is there, nothing is lost

#605 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:12

So anyone actually believes that there is a 1 sec difference in overall performance between Schumi and rosberg?

All the practices, quali's and races have shown that they are on almost equal pace.

Why i'm disappointed in Schumi's performance today is that, for now, he doesn't show the overall package that made him great.

So many chances, so many strategy calls that could have catapulted him on top in the last two races. And all were missed.

#606 Umpire

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:13

This is not really true if you look depper into it. In Q1 Schumacher was a little bit earlier on track, conditions getting worse at this stage. Even with this small disadvantage Rosberg was only 3 tenths behind. In Q2 first try Schumacher was on intermediates, Rosberg on full wets. At this time intermediates were much better. It is clear that Schumacher was faster with the better tyres. Later Rosberg switched to intermediates and drove faster than Schumacher. Q3 Rosberg was faster, even his third flying lap he would be faster as Schumachers best time there.


This is a decent way to look at it, obviously since the cars were not within 100 meters of each other and the rain was not steady, we can't be sure that they set laptimes in 'identical' conditions.

But if there were such reasons (apart from, possibly, driving ability) that MS might have been faster than Rosberg at a given point during the qualifying session, then one must admit that there must have been some reason, apart from pure driving ability, that MS was 1.1 seconds slower than Rosberg in Q3.

For what it's worth, Michael 'past it' Schumacher posted overall quicker sector times than Rosberg in S1 and S2 during the whole session. He just couldn't string them together.

I too thought today's rain was Michael's chance to shine in Q3, he looked set to do so and then just blew it up. Be it tyre management or driver error, he screwed it up, there are no other excuses this time. But that does not mean he has 'lost it'. If anything, look at McLaren (even Whitmarsh admitted that his drivers were on the track before Schumacher) and Ferrari...

On another note, it's kind of sad how easily they stop races/qualifying when it rains heavily. I mean, I know, safety, but anyone who watched France 1999 would respectfully take issue with such calls. It needs to be stopped when it gets too bad, and perhaps that might have been the case eventually today.

But it's kinda sad that there is basically no racing allowed during constant rain........they wait it out till it stops, then resume...

Edited by Umpire, 03 April 2010 - 14:21.


#607 soca

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:26

what a disappointment :| . i was hoping for top 3 place and i was almost sure he will make it, too bad he didnt handle the tires well but im not so mad at him because he hasnt fully adopted the tires and he said it too in RTL interview. but overall he looked good IMO. in Q1 he went out just before Ferraris but still managed to get to Q2 and in Q2 in his final lap he was fastest after two sectors but the final sector was so wet. Haug said on RTL that he was very impressed by that lap and that you could see the talent of Schumi on that lap. well, i hope we will have the same weather tomorrow and that he shows us his wet driving talent and finishes on podium :clap:

#608 Yellowmc

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:30

Essentially, this is proving to us that Schumacher doesn't have it anymore.

No shame in that, he was out for a few years and everyone else moved on. He's lost the physical and mental condition required and it will be a difficult road but I do expect him to get sharper as the year goes on. Rosberg will beat him this year.

#609 Spa95

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:41

I thought his performance in this mornings free practice was very good indeed (and no, I just didn't look at the overall fastest lap times). However, his pace in the wet was a bit hit and miss as he struggled with the extreme wet tyre on one flying lap.

I'm now very confident now that he will equal or beat Rosberg for the rest of the season. :up:

Edited by Spa95, 03 April 2010 - 14:42.


#610 soca

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:52

The times show Rosberg took care of his tyres on his first run:

Schumacher

1′51.717
1′51.827
1′52.479

Rosberg

1′56.151
1′50.673
1′51.448

#611 MegaManson

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 15:38

The neck injury references are getting a bit tired, IMO....


I think his neck is ok

But if he does not improve dramatically against Rosberg he should retire during the season and be replaced by Heidfeld so rather than him bowing out as a has been he could bow out blaming his neck even though his neck is fine and that way he gets a free pass from the has been stuff

#612 RSNS

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 15:39

As the race will probably be a wet one, we will probably know, tomorrow at the end of the morning, the present competitiveness of Schumacher. Unless, of course, there is an ugly accident in the first bend (which is not unlikely).

Most people are turning against Schumacher because they think they can no longer admire him. Great admirers ('fans') are usually one's most terrible enemies when one is down.* (footnote)

But if Schumacher manages to turn the tables on Rosberg, most bashers will again be saying that Schumacher is great. It would be funny if anyone has the patience to keep track of the most offending posts and compare it with what the same posters will say if Schumacher starts beating Rosberg.

I, too, expected him to blow Rosberg; it hasn't happened. But let's wait and see. Schumacher's is a huge task: he can only improve during weekends, so let's wait for a few more races.

*(footnote): There is a well known psychological explanation for this, and it is not nice: a weak ego needs to identify with someone else's greatness to feel important; when the greatness seems gone, the little selves must distance themselves from the former champion because they need to dissociate with him and find another ego booster.


#613 as65p

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 15:44

To be fair the greatest people present and past in F1 who are infinately more knowledgeable on the subject than you have all said it will take AT LEAST 4 races to get to a competitive level in the current climate.

So after 2 races and a mixed qualy session where even the current best failed you and others are posting this and seeking/hoping for every wrong step to base your post's on?

Sad.

If by the 5th or 6th race he is still uncompetitive and not mixing it, car withstanding, with the top 4 I will agree with you.

While I don't think he will win tomorrow even in mixed weather, I think theres a real potential for a podium.


Well, I bet you'll just come up with different excuses, already prepared one with "car withstanding". Which obviously doesn't fly against Rosberg.

Sad. :p

Of course he can do well tomorrow, the old MS is still hidden in the aching hull somewhere...;).

Edited by as65p, 03 April 2010 - 15:44.


#614 SeanValen

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 15:54

Alot of big names hit the gravel today and a driver who has a title about banning him has done well, Mark Webber.

It was that sort of day and Michael will be irriated by the lack of knowlege of the extreme wet fading tyres, I think he would of known and Mercedes had there been no testing ban, at least he has a race to improve on, plus other champions are behind, could be way worser

Either way, we have a great race on are hands tomorrow.



#615 Madras

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 16:02

Barrichello out qualified him, in a slower car!

#616 arknor

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 16:18

Barrichello out qualified him, in a slower car!

all the slower cars will have gone all out wet weather setups anyway because the gamble can only be win win for those teams, they either finish at the back or gamble and possibly finish at the front

#617 Galko877

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 16:18

Barrichello out qualified him, in a slower car!



Michael outqualified Alonso and Hamilton in a slower car! :wave:

#618 Galko877

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 16:22

I think his neck is ok

But if he does not improve dramatically against Rosberg he should retire during the season and be replaced by Heidfeld so rather than him bowing out as a has been he could bow out blaming his neck even though his neck is fine and that way he gets a free pass from the has been stuff



Whatever. :rolleyes:

#619 Madras

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 16:57

Michael outqualified Alonso and Hamilton in a slower car! :wave:


Yes there were reasons for that.

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#620 Galko877

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 16:59

Yes there were reasons for that.



There were also reasons for Michael being beaten by Barrichello.

#621 merschu

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:06

There were also reasons for Michael being beaten by Barrichello.


+1 :up: :up: :clap: Good reply!

Edited by merschu, 03 April 2010 - 17:07.


#622 Madras

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:08

+1 :up: :up: :clap: Good reply!


Yeah Barrichello was faster...

#623 Raincoat

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:10

Michael outqualified Alonso and Hamilton in a slower car! :wave:



But got destroyed by a Non WDC :wave:

#624 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:13

But got destroyed by a Non WDC :wave:


And he destroyed 3 WDC's... Your point is?

#625 arknor

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:13

But got destroyed by a Non WDC :wave:

hopefully webber rams rosberg going into the first corner and knocks of his wing sending him to the back of the field, we can watch how the overtaking master progresses

#626 Madras

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:14

hopefully webber rams rosberg going into the first corner and knocks of his wing sending him to the back of the field, we can watch how the overtaking master progresses


Hopefully? It's bound to happen.;)

#627 Raincoat

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:16

And he destroyed 3 WDC's... Your point is?



No they are all ahead of him on the WDC running. :wave:

#628 Menace

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:16

To be fair the greatest people present and past in F1 who are infinately more knowledgeable on the subject than you have all said it will take AT LEAST 4 races to get to a competitive level in the current climate.

So after 2 races and a mixed qualy session where even the current best failed you and others are posting this and seeking/hoping for every wrong step to base your post's on?

Sad.

If by the 5th or 6th race he is still uncompetitive and not mixing it, car withstanding, with the top 4 I will agree with you.

While I don't think he will win tomorrow even in mixed weather, I think theres a real potential for a podium.


:up:

#629 Menace

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:18

Just ignore Raincoat. He is nothing but a troll, no respect or intelligence in his posts whether it is about Alonso, MS or Kimi etc.

Hamilton fanatic at his best.

#630 Raincoat

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:18

hopefully webber rams rosberg going into the first corner and knocks of his wing sending him to the back of the field, we can watch how the overtaking master progresses



Oh its come down to that now? Schumcher needing other drivers to crash into Nico? The only chance he has of beating him :rotfl: :rotfl:

#631 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:18

No they are all ahead of him on the WDC running. :wave:


Which only matters at the end of the year. So based on your logic Schumy destroyed 3 WDC's in this qualy.wow, he is even better than before he retired. :rotfl:

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 April 2010 - 17:20.


#632 arknor

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:20

Oh its come down to that now? Schumcher needing other drivers to crash into Nico? The only chance he has of beating him :rotfl: :rotfl:

no i just think it would be intresting to see if he would have problems overtaking and what excuses people would use on these forums if he got stuck behind a bottom feeder

#633 Menace

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:20

Oh its come down to that now? Schumcher needing other drivers to crash into Nico? The only chance he has of beating him :rotfl: :rotfl:


See? Nothing but trolling in his posts. He is trying to get a rise out of you.

There is no need to take this sad soul seriously. :rotfl:

#634 grunge

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:25

To be fair, what he does now doesn't tell much about the past, if anything. What it does tell is that right here right now, at the age of 41 and after a 3 year break, MS isn't that special anymore.

Come on, even his fans must admit that. Those were precisley the difficult conditions today he and Brawn used to excel in, because MS made it work most of the time. No excuses like "I planned to push the next lap" back then, because he had the confidence to go all out every lap.

Overall he's still doing far from bad, but the magic seems gone.

theres no way u can sit in your armchair and after 2 weekends predict hes lost his magic.

the guys coming off a 3 year break.give him half a season atleast.if hes still consistently off rosberg's pace then,perhaps one can ''tentatively'' state age has taken its toll on him.

i just cant figure out why so many people want him to retire..im not a fan of the man at all..never been,probably never will..but i have no qualms in admitting,his return to f1 brings nothing but excitement .who doesnt want to see him race?..doesnt matter if yer a fan or a hater

#635 Galko877

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:27

theres no way u can sit in your armchair and after 2 weekends predict hes lost his magic.

the guys coming off a 3 year break.give him half a season atleast.if hes still consistently off rosberg's pace then,perhaps one can ''tentatively'' state age has taken its toll on him.

i just cant figure out why so many people want him to retire..im not a fan of the man at all..never been,probably never will..but i have no qualms in admitting,his return to f1 brings nothing but excitement .who doesnt want to see him race?..doesnt matter if yer a fan or a hater



I guess they are just afraid that one weekend everything might come together for him and he might pull a magic drive just like back in the old days.  ;)

#636 Menace

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:28

I guess they are just afraid that one weekend everything might come together for him and he might pull a magic drive just like back in the old days. ;)


Indeed. :)

#637 merschu

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:29

There is no point arguing with a troll. This is how Schumi haters mind work:

Schumi does well= Others had problems. And all the other logical & illogical reasons they can come up with to put schumi down!

Schumi does badly= He cannot have problems! He is just a bad driver! He always was a bad driver!







Edited by merschu, 03 April 2010 - 17:33.


#638 arknor

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:39

There is no point arguing with a troll. This is how Schumi haters mind work:

Schumi does well= Others had problems. And all the other logical & illogical reasons they can come up with to put schumi down!

Schumi does badly= He cannot have problems! He is just a bad driver! He always was a bad driver!

[rosberg fanboy mode=on]schumacher sucks now he doesnt have illegal driving aids[/rosberg fanboy mode=off]

Edited by arknor, 03 April 2010 - 17:40.


#639 Ruf

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:40

There is no point arguing with a troll. This is how Schumi haters mind work:

Schumi does well= Others had problems. And all the other logical & illogical reasons they can come up with to put schumi down!

Schumi does badly= He cannot have problems! He is just a bad driver! He always was a bad driver!

You forgot the FIA conspiracy and his magiked forever no.1 contract, but otherwise you've summed up pretty nicely.

Edited by Ruf, 03 April 2010 - 17:41.


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#640 arknor

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:42

You forgot the FIA cpnspiracy and his magiked forever no.1 contract, but otherwise you've summed up pretty nicely.

schumacher no longer has the tifosi support or he would have hired teh italian mafia to kidnap rosbergs dad and force rosberg drive badly or his father gets it

#641 Ruf

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:45

schumacher no longer has the tifosi support or he would have hired teh italian mafia to kidnap rosbergs dad and force rosberg drive badly or his father gets it

Hey, I am a tifoso and he still has my support! The only reason I didn't hire a sicilian mob yet is because the global recession; I'm short of cash at the moment :p

#642 arknor

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:48

Hey, I am a tifoso and he still has my support! The only reason I didn't hire a sicilian mob yet is because the global recession; I'm short of cash at the moment :p

less to do with the reccession and more to do with your schumacher shares plummeting ;)

#643 Raincoat

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:52

no i just think it would be intresting to see if he would have problems overtaking and what excuses people would use on these forums if he got stuck behind a bottom feeder


I guarantee you this, Nico wont struggle to overtake Alguesuari. Anyway, wont it be fun seeing Nico win tomorrow? ;)

Edited by Raincoat, 03 April 2010 - 17:53.


#644 Raincoat

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:54

See? Nothing but trolling in his posts. He is trying to get a rise out of you.

There is no need to take this sad soul seriously. :rotfl:



Hey are you calling me a Menace? :D

#645 Ruf

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 17:55

Ok, this is getting boring. Do yourself a favor and shutup.

#646 aditya-now

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 19:44

Well, I bet you'll just come up with different excuses, already prepared one with "car withstanding". Which obviously doesn't fly against Rosberg.

Sad. :p

Of course he can do well tomorrow, the old MS is still hidden in the aching hull somewhere...;).


You cynic!

The old MS is still hidden somewhere  ;)
In my opinion it is the young MS that is hiding somewhere!


#647 Eff1NZ

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 19:54

To be fair, what he does now doesn't tell much about the past, if anything. What it does tell is that right here right now, at the age of 41 and after a 3 year break, MS isn't that special anymore.

Come on, even his fans must admit that. Those were precisley the difficult conditions today he and Brawn used to excel in, because MS made it work most of the time. No excuses like "I planned to push the next lap" back then, because he had the confidence to go all out every lap.

Overall he's still doing far from bad, but the magic seems gone.


This is it, in a nutshell.

Why cannot his admirers accept this simple premise. He was once the greatest. To quote the bard: "But every fair from fair sometime declines. By chance or nature's changing course untrimmed" or words to that affect. :p

I tried to make a simple observation that his performance had been "average" (because he finished 10th out of 14 finishers) and I got a bunch of "hate mail" along with being termed a "hater", "troll", "having an agenda"!!!?! WTF!!!??!

Some people are so pathetic. They cannot bear to hear any evaluation of their hero which dares to suggest that he is not the most dominant driver in the field today. Unless you derive your livelihood from his being "numero uno", get over it. You'll be the happier for accepting whatever he can accomplish; even if it isn't complete domination.

For the record, and in answer to the characterizations that were thrown my way (as mentioned above):

1. I am an admirer of MS. But I have no "agenda"; certainly not one that blindly rates him as the best out there today. He must prove it. And a good start would be to beat his own team-mate. Something he has failed to do even on one on occassion when it mattered. No excuses please!

2. In his day, he was EASILY the most dominant driver of his era. He was/is a legend in his own time. But he is NOT that driver today!

3. As a human being, he is a TITAN. His generous nature and humane qualities are without parallel among the field of drivers today.

4. I want for him what he wants for himself: For goodness sake, let him drive and enjoy himself! PLEASE STOP CALLING FOR HIS RETIREMENT!!! Even is he is consistently beaten by his teammate this season. Why should he give up on the one thing that gives him the most enjoyment in life? To satisfy some sorry fanboys and keep his statistics unblemished? Sure there will be some detractors who will glory in the fact the they can now point to some tarnished records, but so what? You only go around once . . . allow him to make hay while the sun shines. His last retirement was precipitated IMO in large part by the weight of negative press and negative public opinion (because he WAS so good); don't do that to him again.

5. Despite his fallen state, he is STILL one of the better handfull of drivers out there and more than deserving of his seat in a top team. So please: stop with this Heidfeld nonsense. Can't we just enjoy watching the effort he puts into his trade, no matter the results?



#648 as65p

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 20:26

You cynic!

The old MS is still hidden somewhere ;)
In my opinion it is the young MS that is hiding somewhere!


:D :up:

I should have written "the MS of old", obviously. :wave:

Whatever, I stick by my prediction that the driver he once was will come out some day this season, once or twice. Who knows maybe tomorrow already. But as for a season-long WDC challenge, I just can't see it, no way.

#649 Group B

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 20:27

To be fair, what he does now doesn't tell much about the past, if anything. What it does tell is that right here right now, at the age of 41 and after a 3 year break, MS isn't that special anymore.

Come on, even his fans must admit that. Those were precisley the difficult conditions today he and Brawn used to excel in, because MS made it work most of the time. No excuses like "I planned to push the next lap" back then, because he had the confidence to go all out every lap.

Overall he's still doing far from bad, but the magic seems gone.

:up:

#650 Madras

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 21:18

Think about this guys. If MS came back at 51 nobody would be surprised that he was off the pace. He's 41 and you shouldnt be surprised that he's lost some of his edge. Quit being in denial.