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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#6501 arknor

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:46

Why didn't Michael overtake him then? Nico would not have done anything unsensible...


because as many drivers have said , you need 2 be over 2 seconds faster to overtake , schumacher was clearly only 1.5-2seconds quicker.

all the times when rosberg has aparently been held up my michael we neversaw rosberg show pace whilst behind like schumacher did today

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#6502 MrGBrown

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:46

For sure if Mercedes has let Schumacher past Rosberg Schumacher would have had a very good chance of an ailing Hamilton. Hamilton was horribly slow from slow corners, horridly.

Rosberg far too fragile to disrupt. He has a good mental state and is performing well, Mercedes couldn't tell him to move over or they might trigger a downward trend...



You realise hamilton had no 3rd gear so was horridly slow in pulling from corners?
If ham didnt have that problem no chance of schu catching him. But anyway I came to this thread to say that I actually liked watching him drive today. Im by far a fan of his but :up: for him today! Good job, be interesting to watch him in 2011 im sure.

#6503 BRK

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:49

Why didn't Michael overtake him then? Nico would not have done anything unsensible...


If you've followed his career at all you'd know he's the sort that bides his time before going for it in the closing stages of the GP. I'm almost certain he would've barged past at the chicane or something.

#6504 RedBaron

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:49

You realise hamilton had no 3rd gear so was horridly slow in pulling from corners?
If ham didnt have that problem no chance of schu catching him. But anyway I came to this thread to say that I actually liked watching him drive today. Im by far a fan of his but :up: for him today! Good job, be interesting to watch him in 2011 im sure.


Give it a rest, obviously we all know why Hamilton was slow. You don't need to campaign for Hamilton all over the forum in other driver topics. No-one is suggesting Hamilton lacked talent to accelerate out of corners.

#6505 aditya-now

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:49

Oh yeah, if anything such races prove that Michael has not 'lost it'; he is well capable of racing with the best. And the so-called 'tyre excuses' may not be unsubstantiated after all. But the man is a Suzuka maestro.


He has not lost it in Suzuka, so much is clear. Great race, there is still life in the old dog, and it will give Michael confidence for the future.


#6506 tormave

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:51

And after this ,why isn't Michael doing points? Because he is working for the team. He is not self-centred like Nico.

If they finished 6-7 like they were going before Nico's rear suspension/wheel/tyre failure, Nico would've overtaken Massa in WDC and pulled further away from Kubica. I should think the team is interested in that as well. That's really the only points fight left for MGP as in MS can't get ahead of anyone in the WDC anymore and in WCC they are over 150 points behind Ferrari.

#6507 RedBaron

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:51

Why didn't Michael overtake him then? Nico would not have done anything unsensible...


No way. Rosberg wouldn't have done a 'Schumacher-Rubens' but he wouldn't have been tame or sensible, there would have been a risk diving up the inside of Rosberg (No attack on Rosberg here). Getting passed by Schumacher is the last thing he wants after everything he has done... especially at Suzuka of all circuits.

#6508 vovelo

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:56

Well Done Michael ! :up:
Very very good race for him :cool: Good start ( very often this year ), overtook Barrichello , good race pace for first stint on soft .
but he still need to improve his quali pace as it's main factor for race results . I hope he will do it next year .
and yes,we ahead of Sutil again :wave:






#6509 Urawa

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:56

2 things that should be worth mentioned today I think:

- IIRC first time this year that Michael could immediately push after a SC, on other occasions he was going backwards
- tyre wear was not a problem at the end of the race like we have seen at most other weekends.

Let´s see if this can be translated to other circuits.

Edited by Urawa, 10 October 2010 - 07:59.


#6510 RedBaron

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:57

Well Done Michael ! :up:
Very very good race for him :cool: Good start ( very often this year ), overtook Barrichello , good race pace for first stint on soft .
but he still need to improve his quali pace as it's main factor for race results . I hope he will do it next year .
and yes,we ahead of Sutil again :wave:



I think his pace all weekend has been good, but he said on the grid to the BBC he had F-Duct issues which caused a disappointing qualifying result.

#6511 roflcopter

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 07:59

I honestly thimk micheal was hanging back and waiting till the last few laps to try and force the situation rather that have him and nico lose time fighting each other.. He had the pace and fresher tyres, but its ony that Nico crashed that we didnt see him try again.

#6512 gaston_foix

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:00

Well done Michael :up: :up:

#6513 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:01

Lol Merc F-duct was not working normally for Schumi in quali. It was deploying in the corners. :rotfl:

#6514 rog

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:08

Lol Merc F-duct was not working normally for Schumi in quali. It was deploying in the corners. :rotfl:



At least another excuse für Schumacher.

#6515 vovelo

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:08

but he said on the grid to the BBC he had F-Duct issues which caused a disappointing qualifying result.

it's new for me,thanks for sharing it :up:
I read Schumi quote after quali in team's press release and no any reply about "F-Duct issues"



#6516 Urawa

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:08

At least another excuse für Schumacher.


Today´s pace suggests 10th was by far not his real pace

#6517 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:09

Very good interview on RTL. Michael very happy. He said that he think to attack Nico again in later stages. Very happy with the car today, working like supposed to. Also Ralf commentator for RTL is good luck for Michael, I think. As we see his first sector was very good in the race, not like in Qauly. He say that if Nico was not his team-mate he could attack him harder. I was surprised that he could leave Bari behind. I was thinking Williams car have better pace.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 08:12.


#6518 rog

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:12

Today´s pace suggests 10th was by far not his real pace



Impossible to judge without Rosberg as indicator due to his early stop.

#6519 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:13

And yet, Schumacher was faster than Rosberg in both FP sessions and then he suddenly lost four tenths or so. That doesn't need to be explained, right?

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#6520 Urawa

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:14

Impossible to judge without Rosberg as indicator due to his early stop.


Rosberg was an indicator at FP1/FP2 and Michael was not lacking 3-5 tenths there which suddenly turned up today in the morning

#6521 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:15

Impossible to judge without Rosberg as indicator due to his early stop.

This could be said about Michael in a lot of races for different reasons. But, you didn't think that way then? Strange.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 08:15.


#6522 rog

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:17

And yet, Schumacher was faster than Rosberg in both FP sessions and then he suddenly lost four tenths or so. That doesn't need to be explained, right?



A practice session is a practice session, could be different fuel, setup or other reasons we don't know. Look to heidfeld, slower than Kobayashi on Friday and faster in Qualifying. All this means nothing.

#6523 MrGBrown

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:19

@ Redbaron. I was saying MSC did a very good job today. I do actually think that the car will be better next year with Ross involved. I think he will be looking for a 1-3 wdc title next year. Looking forward to it.

#6524 baddog

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:19

A practice session is a practice session, could be different fuel, setup or other reasons we don't know. Look to heidfeld, slower than Kobayashi on Friday and faster in Qualifying. All this means nothing.

However if Michael DID say something was wrong with his F-Duct (which I dont know, I didnt see it) then there was something wrong. You could accuse the man of a lot but lying about a tech issue to excuse his performance? Nothing could be more out of character.

#6525 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:20

But still you can conclude that Schumacher is searching for excuses as to why he wasn't so fast in quali, yes?

Also, looking at the times, Schumacher was still going 0,5 seconds/lap faster than Nico when he pitted. I don't understand why MGP didn't keep him out for a few more laps to put him ahead with the better tires. It seems like a fairly poor pitting decision.

Hamilton might have been in reach. They finished 20 seconds apart, with Schumacher doing laps that were 1-2 seconds/lap faster than Hamilton after Rosberg's out.

Edited by PoliFanAthic, 10 October 2010 - 08:22.


#6526 Massa_f1

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:24

Good pace from Schumacher today best of the non championship battlers. This is a real drivers circuit so to me its proof MS still has it somewhere. He just needs to see if he can find it consistently for 2011 and not just on his favorite track.

#6527 rog

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:24

However if Michael DID say something was wrong with his F-Duct (which I dont know, I didnt see it) then there was something wrong. You could accuse the man of a lot but lying about a tech issue to excuse his performance? Nothing could be more out of character.



Not really, could be an excuse for his poor Qualifying as I said.

#6528 baddog

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:28

But still you can conclude that Schumacher is searching for excuses as to why he wasn't so fast in quali, yes?

Well no, if there WAS a technical problem of that kind he doesnt need excuses, getting to Q3 was an amazing effort. Im hoping to find out what he DID say though..

#6529 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:32

He said F-duct was not working properly in Qualy. I guess he was fast today:
http://www.fia.com/e...race-speeds.pdf
http://www.fia.com/e...n-race-trap.pdf
Not happen often. So much speed.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 08:33.


#6530 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:32

I saw him on RTL, he said F-duct was working in the corners, whereby the rear of the car was "looser" (said something about 4-5%) and that this cost time especially in the first sector.

He also went on to say that he's had problems with the car quite a few times, problems that sometimes weren't apparent "outside" through anything else but the lack of pace.

I don't know, maybe he feels a bit pressured by all this negative media.

P.S. My reply was for rog.

Edited by PoliFanAthic, 10 October 2010 - 08:33.


#6531 r4mses

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:33

In RTL's post race iview he said if it wasn't his teammate in front oh him, he would've passed him.

#6532 MCh000

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:33

...Also, looking at the times, Schumacher was still going 0,5 seconds/lap faster than Nico when he pitted. I don't understand why MGP didn't keep him out for a few more laps to put him ahead with the better tires. It seems like a fairly poor pitting decision...


It is the same reason why Schumacher didn't overtake Rosberg - team tactics, that occurred also in some other races this season.

#6533 r4mses

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:34

Well no, if there WAS a technical problem of that kind he doesnt need excuses, getting to Q3 was an amazing effort. Im hoping to find out what he DID say though..


When asked on TV about details - on how Mercedes' f-duct works and what went wrong in quali - he said he wont go into details :D

#6534 baddog

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:36

You would think that this late in this kind of season they would not have any need for team tactics.. we know they did it in germany and I suspect one other (and why not, Rosberg is in the hunt for places that Schumacher isnt) but why now?

#6535 Galko877

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:37

Ross Brawn said not long ago that Michael's problem is slow corners on these type of tyres, while he is still very quick in fast corners. Today's race proved that theory is right. Hope next year's tyres will suit him a lot better and he won't struggle in slow corners either any more.

#6536 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:38

Nico have chance for 6th in WDC, that is it. Simple. Also he need to keep 7th. And we know Ross use team orders. But,Michael deserved 6th place much more today. Nico made big mess at the start.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 08:41.


#6537 MCh000

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:41

You would think that this late in this kind of season they would not have any need for team tactics.. we know they did it in germany and I suspect one other (and why not, Rosberg is in the hunt for places that Schumacher isnt) but why now?


Well, Rosberg - 122 points, Kubica - 114 points. Three races remaining, anything is possible and I'm sure Mercedes don't wan't Renault to overtake them in Driver's standings.

#6538 aditya-now

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:57

Ross Brawn said not long ago that Michael's problem is slow corners on these type of tyres, while he is still very quick in fast corners. Today's race proved that theory is right. Hope next year's tyres will suit him a lot better and he won't struggle in slow corners either any more.


This race was definitely the proof of Ross' analysis - so if next year's tyres suit indeed Michael better, then we are in for an interesting season.

#6539 baddog

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:59

Nico have chance for 6th in WDC, that is it. Simple. Also he need to keep 7th. And we know Ross use team orders. But,Michael deserved 6th place much more today. Nico made big mess at the start.



I suppose. Im going to be very slow to claim that they are using orders though.. Michael has to prove it on track (as he very clearly did today)

Edited by baddog, 10 October 2010 - 09:00.


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#6540 DILLIGAF

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:01

Saw a bit of the old Michael today. Great drive. :up:

#6541 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:09

i find it hard to understand how EJ and brundle seem to have changed there tune about shuey in the space of one race and it was a race where he was 4 tenths behined nico in qualy and would have finished behind him in the race dispite nico having a poor get away, am i the only person thats wondering what has changed for people to alter thier opinions of him so quickly? apart from not running into every tom, dick and harry nothing has changed as far as im concerned, if he can't beat nico in qualy and the race over the remaining race then im not convinced he is anything like is old self.

#6542 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:11

i find it hard to understand how EJ and brundle seem to have changed there tune about shuey in the space of one race and it was a race where he was 4 tenths behined nico in qualy and would have finished behind him in the race dispite nico having a poor get away, am i the only person thats wondering what has changed for people to alter thier opinions of him so quickly? apart from not running into every tom, dick and harry nothing has changed as far as im concerned, if he can't beat nico in qualy and the race over the remaining race then im not convinced he is anything like is old self.

I guess you didn't read a word in this thread before posting. Yes, why to do it. :wave: About commentators you mentioned, I suppose they say something good about Michael today if you complain here. I just guess they don't know what bad to say about Michael after the race today or just maybe they finally see the forest behind the tree?

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 09:15.


#6543 razno

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:11

Well, Rosberg - 122 points, Kubica - 114 points. Three races remaining, anything is possible and I'm sure Mercedes don't wan't Renault to overtake them in Driver's standings.


Its sad to see them using team orders and tactic when they are not fighting for WDC.
You demoralise drivers for no big reason.


#6544 MCh000

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:17

Hmm, you can't demoralize Schumacher who supported Ferrari in team orders controversy this season.

#6545 aditya-now

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:21

Its sad to see them using team orders and tactic when they are not fighting for WDC.
You demoralise drivers for no big reason.


I don't think that F1 drivers are as easily thrown off course and becoming insecure and irritated - not everyone is a Carlos Reutemann. They are highly paid professionals and do see the rationale behind team tactics.


#6546 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:22

Its sad to see them using team orders and tactic when they are not fighting for WDC.
You demoralise drivers for no big reason.

But,they were punished for this. Michael even have very slight chance to catch troubled Lewis today. They could see their mistake clearly, if Koba passed them both. Because he wouldn't waiting for them and sitting back. Their tactic maybe cost Nico finish today. He could get points for 8th because I think Koba could pass him easily, where Michael have pace to keep Koba behind easily. Bad decision today from the team.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 09:24.


#6547 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:23

I guess you didn't read a word in this thread before posting. Yes, why to do it. :wave: About commentators you mentioned, I suppose they say something good about Michael today if you complain here. I just guess they don't know what bad to say about Michael after the race today or just maybe they finally see the forest behind the tree?


If shuey can beat nico over the next three races i'll happily eat my words but the fact still remains he was comfortably beaten by nico in qualy and was behind him the race even thou rosberg had a shocker of a start, how does that translate into a good performance? if shuey was just a normal rookie, even with tyre excuses and anything else he can think of he would not be racing in formula one next season, am i wrong?

#6548 arknor

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:28

i find it hard to understand how EJ and brundle seem to have changed there tune about shuey in the space of one race and it was a race where he was 4 tenths behined nico in qualy and would have finished behind him in the race dispite nico having a poor get away, am i the only person thats wondering what has changed for people to alter thier opinions of him so quickly? apart from not running into every tom, dick and harry nothing has changed as far as im concerned, if he can't beat nico in qualy and the race over the remaining race then im not convinced he is anything like is old self.

did you even watch the race?

mercedes pitted michael while he was still going 0.5seconds faster a lap than nico who pitted under the safety car to puposely get nico infront.

michael then came out of the pitts and slaughted nicos laptimes to get on his gear box , was on his gear box showing "alonso is faster than you" pace until nico crashed out.

then michael was instantly 1.5-2seconds a lap faster with nico out of the way.


oh wait you didnt pay attention to anything and just want to have a go again

Edited by arknor, 10 October 2010 - 09:31.


#6549 BRK

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:33

i find it hard to understand how EJ and brundle seem to have changed there tune about shuey in the space of one race and it was a race where he was 4 tenths behined nico in qualy and would have finished behind him in the race dispite nico having a poor get away, am i the only person thats wondering what has changed for people to alter thier opinions of him so quickly? apart from not running into every tom, dick and harry nothing has changed as far as im concerned, if he can't beat nico in qualy and the race over the remaining race then im not convinced he is anything like is old self.


Well,he was quick throughout the race,on both compounds,did not struggle with tyre wear,was consistently quicker than his teammate,kept up the pressure despite being less than a second behind him for twenty odd laps...and so on.

I don't know how old you are but you really should make it a point to actually watch the race (with live timing on),or at least analyze data a bit before jumping to conclusions.

#6550 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:34

If shuey can beat nico over the next three races i'll happily eat my words but the fact still remains he was comfortably beaten by nico in qualy and was behind him the race even thou rosberg had a shocker of a start, how does that translate into a good performance? if shuey was just a normal rookie, even with tyre excuses and anything else he can think of he would not be racing in formula one next season, am i wrong?


You missed the pre-race interview with Schumacher. He said his car had some issues and his F-duct wasn't working properly which caused extra drag on the car and he lost out in some high speed sections.

He was also faster during the race and the team and Nico knew it too. Team orders are banned so a re-arrange between the two couldn't be allowed to happen, and Nico didn't want to yield either - and why should he, they are racing after all.

I think on fast flowing circuits like Spa, Suzuka et al, Schumacher is up there with Rosberg if not better.