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#6601 Scotracer

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:29

A watched with a smile today as I saw a little of the old Michael magic emerge from the cockpit of the Mercedes. I would really like to have seen the pass on Barrichello as the end of it that I saw, it appeared as if he's gone around the outside of him. Would be a pretty sweet pass to see.

Pity Michael couldn't get passed Nico but I'm guessing Schumy didn't want to risk taking both cars out of the points (he was obviously much faster than Rosberg). 6th place will do for this weekend and I'm much happier about my hero than I was at Singapore.



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#6602 merschu

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:52

Schu: No need for Merc position swap

The 41-year-old admits he did enquire whether it would have made sense for the team to switch the positions so to not leave them vulnerable to cars behind, but understood their reasons for not doing so.

“Well I had asked obviously whether it would make sense to let me go and try and push ahead or avoid any circumstance in latter stage towards the back situation,”“But the team obviously monitored the situation well and decided it wasn’t necessary [to let him through] and let us race.

“It was exciting and nice, to a point. “I think it wouldn’t have been necessary to change the position at the end of the day because we wouldn’t have been really up the front.”

Asked to elaborate what he meant by “to a point”, He added that Rosberg had been hard, but fair, in his defence of position, while the strong tail wind down the main straight had compromised his passing opportunities.

“Nice to a point that you feel so much quicker due to the fact that you have fresh tyres, you would like to go by,” Schumacher explained.“He blocked very cleverly, and fairly, but on the hard side – but that’s what I enjoy, racing to the point.

“I was putting myself in position to make my manoeuvres, but we had a lot of tail wind on the straight today so everybody was down in the [rev] limiter and every time you got into the slipstream and got into the overrun you suddenly hit the limiter and you were then equal speed.“So there was no chance to pass down the straight. That was a little bit frustrating sometimes from that point of view, but nothing otherwise.”


http://www.itv-f1.co...e.aspx?id=49432

Edited by merschu, 10 October 2010 - 12:54.


#6603 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:16

all the times when rosberg has aparently been held up my michael we neversaw rosberg show pace whilst behind like schumacher did today

Whenever Rosberg has been behind MS and being held up, he didnt have 25 laps newer tyres.


And yet, Schumacher was faster than Rosberg in both FP sessions and then he suddenly lost four tenths or so. That doesn't need to be explained, right?

FP sessions are completely irrelevant, what an argument :rotfl:


However if Michael DID say something was wrong with his F-Duct (which I dont know, I didnt see it) then there was something wrong. You could accuse the man of a lot but lying about a tech issue to excuse his performance? Nothing could be more out of character.

MS has lied many times before, Jerez, Monaco. He has also lied about technical problems, think back to Shanghai 2004 where he spun in qualifying and blamed it on the car, only for Ross Brawn to say it was schumachers fault 100%.

Ross Brawn said not long ago that Michael's problem is slow corners on these type of tyres, while he is still very quick in fast corners. Today's race proved that theory is right. Hope next year's tyres will suit him a lot better and he won't struggle in slow corners either any more.

He has had many years of tyres being made custom-made for him. Hopefully next years tyres wont suit him at all and he will embarass himself even more than he has done this year.

WHAT? rosberg started with old tyres? why did only michael have fresh rubber for the grand prix? nico used all of his in qualifying? :wave:

:rotfl: :rotfl:

so why was rosberg not faster at the start?

1) Traffic
2) Rosberg had as new tyres as MS on at the beginning of the race.


#6604 SeanValen

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:31

I think Michael was very good today. Fast and clean. :up:

I must admit, though that when Rosberg's onboard camera showed him in the wall, I had a brief, fleeting image of both mercs all twisted and beached.




I think the world had a feeling about that!


Schumacher this year has done well at Spain, Monaco, Spa, Suzuka and Turkey. These are drivers tracks, Turkey having a few very good fast corners, and Ross Brawn did say that it's odd where Michael is losing time, it's not the fast corners, but the slow corners. We know he doesn't like the front tyres this year, in cominbination with a car that's not race winning material, it does bold well to do welll at proper tracks, he's found sets ups that have allolowed him to drive what is a difficult cat to set up for himself, it bolds well. We knew he was going to struggle on certain tracks going by what he said earlier in the year, but what is good, he's shown himself to do well on the really challenging tracks, and that's the good thing for the coming seasons.


Craven Legend :up: :up: :smoking:

Edited by SeanValen, 10 October 2010 - 13:33.


#6605 arknor

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:33

so i said

so why was rosberg not faster at the start?

you replied

1) Traffic
2) Rosberg had as new tyres as MS on at the beginning of the race.


yet in the other thread you say concerning schumacher beeing stuck behind nico

Not Rosbergs problem that MS cannot overtake anyone, despite having MUCH newer tyres-


yet you also said

Schumacher was faster only because he had new tyres on, with similar tyres it would go as it did in Qualifying.



im not even going to waste my time replying to your posts in future

Edited by Buttoneer, 11 October 2010 - 10:24.
removed personal attack


#6606 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:35

proof your just trolling



yet you use traffic as a nico excuse?
you just come here to gloat and troll

When did Rosberg have much newer tyres than other drivers this race?

#6607 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:38

I think the world had a feeling about that!


Schumacher this year has done well at Spain,

Yes

Monaco,

Held up Rosberg most of the race.

Spa,

On his favourite track, with the car set up for dry conditions more than Rosberg, he was unable to pull away from Rosberg.

Suzuka

Much slower than Rosberg in qualy, but we never had a good way to measure their racepace.

and Turkey.

Held up Rosberg the whole race again.


Oh and to call Spain a drivers track is quite silly, that track is one of the most car-dependent tracks in F1.


#6608 Jazza

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:38

I think the world had a feeling about that!


Schumacher this year has done well at Spain, Monaco, Spa, Suzuka and Turkey. These are drivers tracks, Turkey having a few very good fast corners, and Ross Brawn did say that it's odd where Michael is losing time, it's not the fast corners, but the slow corners. We know he doesn't like the front tyres this year, in cominbination with a car that's not race winning material, it does bold well to do welll at proper tracks, he's found sets ups that have allolowed him to drive what is a difficult cat to set up for himself, it bolds well. We knew he was going to struggle on certain tracks going by what he said earlier in the year, but what is good, he's shown himself to do well on the really challenging tracks, and that's the good thing for the coming seasons.


What exactly makes a drivers track? How is Spain or Spa anymore a drivers track than Albert Park or Monza?

(it's interesting that the so called "drivers tracks" like Suzuka normally have team mates lining up beside each other more often than at other tracks. Probably because the drivers tracks have more to do with car performance...)


#6609 SeanValen

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:44

Yes

Oh and to call Spain a drivers track is quite silly, that track is one of the most car-dependent tracks in F1.



Spain is a quite technical track that's ever changing day by day to set up, it's not as great as Spa/Suzuka sure, but it doesn't hurt MS has always done well there, infact scored decent points all his career there despite 2005, best at the track.



Or in another points has Schumacher done any good performance this season for you?
Enjoy the hate and your Sunday. :smoking: :smoking: :up:



What exactly makes a drivers track? How is Spain or Spa anymore a drivers track than Albert Park or Monza?

(it's interesting that the so called "drivers tracks" like Suzuka normally have team mates lining up beside each other more often than at other tracks. Probably because the drivers tracks have more to do with car performance...)



It's all about the fast corners, the Suzuka S's are one of the finest sectors you can make a difference iwth all year. Schumacher doesn't have a problem with the fast corners this year in his struggle, it's the slow corners/breaking on some tracks that he's not enjoying with the current tyre/car comibination, I think that';s been very obvious. At Suzuka when you arrive in turn 1, it's fast, and your not coming to a full stop often at this track without having come out of a fast corner leading onto a straight, then breaking, that's the stuff real racers dig into.

Albert Park and Monza are challenges as well, but they don't have a Suzuka Ss first section and or Spa's fast corners, and fast corners, do I really have to educate you on the sport? Fast corners are were the top drivers really make the difference.



AND ALL TRACKS HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH CAR PERFORMANCE DOH! But not all drivers do well in the corners of the world especially the challenging fast ones..


Edited by SeanValen, 10 October 2010 - 13:56.


#6610 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:48

Spain is a quite technical track that's ever changing day by day to set up, it's not as great as Spa/Suzuka sure, but it doesn't hurt MS has always done well there, infact scored decent points all his career there despite 2005, best at the track.

So basically for you a drivers track is where MS has done well.


Or in another points has Schumacher done any good performance this season for you?

I just said in the previous post that he did well at spain. The rest have been either ok or bad performances. it it a shame we didnt have a clear measure of his pace against Nico today.

Edited by Cheap Wine Alesi, 10 October 2010 - 13:48.


#6611 Fortymark

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:51

Please remember at on these "drivers tracks" Kubica in the Renault has shown much better pace than the
Mercedes duo. Monaco, Spa and Suzuka

#6612 SeanValen

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:57

So basically for you a drivers track is where MS has done well.



I just said in the previous post that he did well at spain. The rest have been either ok or bad performances. it it a shame we didnt have a clear measure of his pace against Nico today.



Give him Spain, very kind of you, merry christmas.

:rotfl: Enjoy the hate way of spending Sunday afternoon.


Please remember at on these "drivers tracks" Kubica in the Renault has shown much better pace than the
Mercedes duo. Monaco, Spa and Suzuka



Only if we had a day where all forumers could donate money for Nico and Michael to get out of their contracts and join a 4 car Renault team to prove your point.
Kubica top driver, but that Renault is still a different car , your avoiding comparing Schumacher to Nico at Suzuka but making Nico an d Schumacher look lesser now then other drivers, if you can't use Nico 's result against Michael, grab another driver to bash Schumacher against. Very silly, and there's been better arguements from Schuey critics in the past which were much more balanced and enjoyable to read.


Enjoy the Sunday hate afternoon :smoking: :wave:



Edited by SeanValen, 10 October 2010 - 14:02.


#6613 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:58

Give him Spain, very kind of you, merry christmas.

:rotfl: Enjoy the hate way of spending Sunday afternoon.

Oh yes, he has been just perfect this year :rotfl: :rolleyes:

#6614 SeanValen

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 14:11

Oh yes, he has been just perfect this year :rotfl: :rolleyes:



And 1st year back after 3 years out, having achieved what no other driver has done in the sport, a new era of no testing, limited budgets/designs set in the stone, who says Schumacher year this year has to be perfect, where any of his championship title seasons perfect, perfect is boring, a quest to get near it is more realistic. Perhaps he has to struggle this year to be better in the coming seasons, as Alonso was saying just a wee while ago, he has nothing to prove to anyone, but it don't hurt having good Suzuka/Spa/Monaco/Turkey races in a year back after retirement with many issues on tyres/car, he can still find solutions in what is a ldifficult car for himself. You are dealing with a living legend every weekend, he creates the most discussions, thousand post thread blockbusters, even with a title showdown looming, he's still creating discussions, good for the forumers, even your contribution is appreciated.

Well done everyone for entertainment discussions.

Enjoy Sunday afternoon hate with some tea, it helps with the f1 pain. :wave: :smoking:

#6615 Graybearded

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 15:21

My eyes were opened last night when forced to watch Irish TV internet streamed to see qualifying live - the commentators just went on and on and on about how bad Schumacher is over a minor incident between Alonso and him in the early stages of Q1.

Some people across the pound clearly have an irrational "I hate Schumacher" problem.

:down:

Edited by Graybearded, 10 October 2010 - 15:22.


#6616 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 15:25

http://translate.goo...-nicht-ein.html
http://www.motorspor...-nicht-ein.html
We clearly see problems he have in first and second sector in Qualy. But, not such problem in the race.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 15:28.


#6617 aditya-now

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 16:48

You should try coming across him in the live forum, ridiculous MS hatred at it's peak, can't have him on ignore there sadly :down:


I did not notice any hatred towards Michael in the live forum, in fact everyone gave Michael his due very fairly. This whole "MS hatred" argument makes you sound like a broken record....


#6618 BRK

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 17:16

I did not notice any hatred towards Michael in the live forum, in fact everyone gave Michael his due very fairly. This whole "MS hatred" argument makes you sound like a broken record....


Oh,the irony....you of all people talking about a broken record. :lol:

Or wait-you want me to prove it?  ;)

#6619 Sakae

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 17:40

Michael probably had good time there, and got much needed confirmation that there is future in F1 for him yet. He has kept me on my toes for over a decade of racing, and I am looking for another two years more. Great!

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#6620 Polle

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 17:45

A much better performance here. Nice overtaking on Rubens but shame for Nico though.

#6621 arknor

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 17:47

http://www.f1fanatic...-prix-analysis/
how schumacher got stuck behind rosberg japanese grand prix analysis

2more laps and schumacher would have had him....

nice call BRAWN! smells like "alonso isnt faster than you " , "save fuel lewis"

Edited by arknor, 10 October 2010 - 17:48.


#6622 slaveceru

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 18:17

Nice race from Schumacher. The team order if there was any was logical and normal from the team point of view. This weekend Schumacher was a bit quicker than Rosberg but there were too few races where he was better than Rosberg. We will see how he will do next year. Few good races do not bring the spring.


Edited by slaveceru, 10 October 2010 - 18:18.


#6623 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 18:22

And 1st year back after 3 years out, having achieved what no other driver has done in the sport, a new era of no testing, limited budgets/designs set in the stone, who says Schumacher year this year has to be perfect, where any of his championship title seasons perfect, perfect is boring, a quest to get near it is more realistic. Perhaps he has to struggle this year to be better in the coming seasons, as Alonso was saying just a wee while ago, he has nothing to prove to anyone, but it don't hurt having good Suzuka/Spa/Monaco/Turkey races in a year back after retirement with many issues on tyres/car, he can still find solutions in what is a ldifficult car for himself. You are dealing with a living legend every weekend, he creates the most discussions, thousand post thread blockbusters, even with a title showdown looming, he's still creating discussions, good for the forumers, even your contribution is appreciated.

Well done everyone for entertainment discussions.

Enjoy Sunday afternoon hate with some tea, it helps with the f1 pain. :wave: :smoking:



He as scored 54 points this season, compared to his team mate who has scored a total of 122, over twice as many as shuey, also shuey has been out of the points on 6 occasions this season, only one of which cant be put down to him, which was in malaysia. Again compared to his team mate who has been in the points on all but 3 occasions, two of which can't be blamed on him, the hungary pitlane incident and todays wheel/suspension failure. Just to add to this rosberg has finished ahead of shumi in 12 races, shuey has beaten his younger teammate 4 times.

those are the facts, i feel he has faded into a shadow of his former self, in the mid/late 90's he put in some incredible drives in cars that didn't deserve to be in places that he could put them, the early 2000's he generally had the fastest, most reliable equipment on the grid, not to mention a team mate who was a contracted number 2 and he was able to produce a stunning record of 5 WDC on the trot as a result, im not doubting that the guy was a genius, one of the greatest ever to done a crash helmet, however, like many top sports men and women there comes a point when thier bodys and minds no longer allow them to access thier incredible talent, this is the time to step down and i felt 06 was the right time for him to retire, whilst still fighting at the top.

I hope im proved wrong next season and he is able to show us that he has still got "it", but im yet to be convinced otherwise.

#6624 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 18:28

He as scored 54 points this season, compared to his team mate who has scored a total of 122, over twice as many as shuey, also shuey has been out of the points on 6 occasions this season, only one of which cant be put down to him, which was in malaysia. Again compared to his team mate who has been in the points on all but 3 occasions, two of which can't be blamed on him, the hungary pitlane incident and todays wheel/suspension failure. Just to add to this rosberg has finished ahead of shumi in 12 races, shuey has beaten his younger teammate 4 times.

Can you tell us how other races he didn't get into the points are down to him? Like in Australia, Monaco, Valencia. And if you don't know Nico get 40 points difference in first 4 races.


#6625 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 18:55

Can you tell us how other races he didn't get into the points are down to him? Like in Australia, Monaco, Valencia. And if you don't know Nico get 40 points difference in first 4 races.


Sure, in Oz he actually came P10 and got the one point, monaco he overtook undersafety car conditions and was punished for breaking this rule by the stewards and valencia, canada, hungary and singapore he wasn't good enough to finish in the top 10.



#6626 arknor

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 18:58

Sure, in Oz he actually came P10 and got the one point, monaco he overtook undersafety car conditions and was punished for breaking this rule by the stewards and valencia, canada, hungary and singapore he wasn't good enough to finish in the top 10.

is that the same canada with a retarded pit stratergy from the team like most races? , is that the same oz where he was involved in a collision through no fault of his own?
....
biased much?

Edited by arknor, 10 October 2010 - 18:59.


#6627 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:01

Sure, in Oz he actually came P10 and got the one point, monaco he overtook undersafety car conditions and was punished for breaking this rule by the stewards and valencia, canada, hungary and singapore he wasn't good enough to finish in the top 10.

In Oz he was hit(by Button/Alonso), in Valencia he was 3rd before stupid team pit call. Easy in the points. In Monaco team tell them to race to the finish. Singapore also hit by Koba. Canada collision with Kubica. Can I guess you were 3 years old when Michael started to race? And you don't know nothing about him? If this is the case ,you missed Greatest driver in F1 maybe with 10 years. Sorry for you.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 19:17.


#6628 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:18

In Oz he was hit(by Button/Alonso), in Valencia he was 3rd before stupid team pit call. Easy in the points. In Monaco team tell them to race to the finish. Singapore also hit by Koba. Canada collision with Kubica.


In valencia he was only 3rd virtue of everyone else pitting when the safety car was deployed and he stayed out for a lap longer before pitting meaning he was 3rd for that lap only and was never actually in a "net" 3rd place. I was talking about when he did not score points ,in oz he scored a point and canada the "collision" was his fault and it didn't result in him losing any more places or having to pit as a result and singapore was a 50-50 incident and he was going very slowly and struggling to hold off kamui before the incident anyway.

Edited by olliek88, 10 October 2010 - 19:31.


#6629 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:23

In Oz he was hit(by Button/Alonso), in Valencia he was 3rd before stupid team pit call. Easy in the points. In Monaco team tell them to race to the finish. Singapore also hit by Koba. Canada collision with Kubica. Can I guess you were 3 years old when Michael started to race? And you don't know nothing about him? If this is the case ,you missed Greatest driver in F1 maybe with 10 years. Sorry for you.


Yup i was three in 91, and if you refer to my earlier post you'll note i also believe he was one of the greatest drivers ever, no one can deny that, but that was in his first career now is a different story, i feel he is no longer the driver he once was, i'd loved to be proved wrong next season but i just can't see him performing as he once did ever again.

#6630 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:24

In valencia he was only 3rd virtue of everyone else pitting when the safety car was deployed and he stayed out for a lap longer before pitting meaning he was 3rd for that lap only and was never actually in a "net" 3rd place. I was talking about when he did not score points ,in oz he scored a point and canada the "collision" was his fault and it didn't result in him losing any more places or having to pit as a result.

He was 3rd in Valencia no matter what before the pit. Like Koba was 4th and 3rd after Michael pit. If he didn't pit he was 3rd. And he have good chance for 6th,7th place in the end. I don't even count one point in The Oz. He lost there double digit result. Guys who was 1st and 2nd in the end were behind him at the first corner.
Michael don't need to prove anything to anyone. If you don't like his performance it is your problem only. Nobody can help you.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2010 - 19:31.


#6631 arknor

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:30

in oz he scored a point and canada the "collision" was his fault and it didn't result in him losing any more places or having to pit as a result.


right... thats the same kubica incident renault said they were glad schumacher carried on in a straight line cutting the corner because kubica was never going to make it?
same race where schumacher did 3 stops and most others did 1

is this the same kubica that has done silly movies on other people this season? i seem to recall him trying the same move on alonso.

#6632 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:36

right... thats the same kubica incident renault said they were glad schumacher carried on in a straight line cutting the corner because kubica was never going to make it?
same race where schumacher did 3 stops and most others did 1

is this the same kubica that has done silly movies on other people this season? i seem to recall him trying the same move on alonso.


Most people in canada pitted 2 or 3 times due to the high tyre degradation, the fact remains the incident discussed in canada was caused as a result of shuey squeezing kubica to the inside dispite RK having the line for the corner.

#6633 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:42

He was 3rd in Valencia no matter what before the pit. Like Koba was 4th and 3rd after Michael pit. If he didn't pit he was 3rd. And he have good chance for 6th,7th place in the end. I don't even count one point in The Oz. He lost there double digit result. Guys who was 1st and 2nd in the end were behind him at the first corner.
Michael don't need to prove anything to anyone. If you don't like his performance it is your problem only. Nobody can help you.


In valencia he was P11 before the saftey car came out, he qualyied in P15 and the SC was deployed on lap 10 i think, how do you propose he made up 12 places in 10 laps? he didn't.

#6634 SeanValen

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:43

He as scored 54 points this season, compared to his team mate who has scored a total of 122, over twice as many as shuey, also shuey has been out of the points on 6 occasions this season, only one of which cant be put down to him, which was in malaysia. Again compared to his team mate who has been in the points on all but 3 occasions, two of which can't be blamed on him, the hungary pitlane incident and todays wheel/suspension failure. Just to add to this rosberg has finished ahead of shumi in 12 races, shuey has beaten his younger teammate 4 times.

those are the facts, i feel he has faded into a shadow of his former self, in the mid/late 90's he put in some incredible drives in cars that didn't deserve to be in places that he could put them, the early 2000's he generally had the fastest, most reliable equipment on the grid, not to mention a team mate who was a contracted number 2 and he was able to produce a stunning record of 5 WDC on the trot as a result, im not doubting that the guy was a genius, one of the greatest ever to done a crash helmet, however, like many top sports men and women there comes a point when thier bodys and minds no longer allow them to access thier incredible talent, this is the time to step down and i felt 06 was the right time for him to retire, whilst still fighting at the top.

I hope im proved wrong next season and he is able to show us that he has still got "it", but im yet to be convinced otherwise.




Lots of stats and facts, but summary is even Schumacher told us he's going to struggle this year, he doesn't like these front tyres/chassic combination, lack of budget in the cost saving era/no testing means he's been talking up 2011 for most of this year, so when he does have a bad weekend or good weekend this year, I'm not surprised, people can whine about perfect years to retire, he knows what he can do at Suzuka/Spa this year, he knows his abilities. Don't stick around here trying to convince us Schuey's past iit or needs to retire, then your no better then the bad press he's gotten. And it's a waste of your own time, because convincing people of your viewpoint to make them think like you is one of the reasons why threads and posts are never ending, save your time.

Where is it written Schumacher must be really really good in 2010 to be better in 2011/2012 after returning from retirement. This is the same sport where Jenson Button who never retired but was written off still got a title, and the same sport were Mark Webber got no one's attention some seasons back and got writ off, look this year, formula one can change alot in a year, it took 10years with ferrari-with big budgets and testing/hardwork to get him going into the history books. It took 2 full on seasons with Benetton before MS won with them. 1 year with Merc after retiring, it's early days, especially coming from retirement.



Edited by SeanValen, 10 October 2010 - 19:52.


#6635 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 19:47

In valencia he was P11 before the saftey car came out, he qualyied in P15 and the SC was deployed on lap 10 i think, how do you propose he made up 12 places in 10 laps? he didn't.

There was SC or you prefer all to forget about it, he was 3rd at some point this is important. He could stay there if they wanted, this is important. As you say he gain maybe 4 places at the start, or you think they stop and let him pass?


#6636 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 20:07

In Oz he was hit(by Button/Alonso), in Valencia he was 3rd before stupid team pit call. Easy in the points. In Monaco team tell them to race to the finish. Singapore also hit by Koba. Canada collision with Kubica. Can I guess you were 3 years old when Michael started to race? And you don't know nothing about him? If this is the case ,you missed Greatest driver in F1 maybe with 10 years. Sorry for you.



There was SC or you prefer all to forget about it, he was 3rd at some point this is important. He could stay there if they wanted, this is important. As you say he gain maybe 4 places at the start, or you think they stop and let him pass?


Being third because everyone else has pitted and he hadn't doesn't mean the team made a stupid pit call to ruin his race as you claimed, it means he was out of sinc and never with any chance of finishing 3rd, it means he was 3rd for one lap before he pitted, as almost everyone else had already pitted and he hadn't.

#6637 arknor

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 20:11

Most people in canada pitted 2 or 3 times due to the high tyre degradation, the fact remains the incident discussed in canada was caused as a result of shuey squeezing kubica to the inside dispite RK having the line for the corner.

that wasnt even the incident the incident that caused the problems was a few corners past that....

kubica was never going to make the corner and schumacher had no choice but to skill across the grass aswell... kubica did the same thing to alonso a few races later....


renault at the time said they are glad schumacher didnt try to make the corner but it was also the reason schumacher pitted again on lap 14 after pitting only 2 laps earlier which dropped him down the back of the grid and got him stuck behind loads of slow cars

#6638 Jazza

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 20:38

It's all about the fast corners, the Suzuka S's are one of the finest sectors you can make a difference iwth all year. Schumacher doesn't have a problem with the fast corners this year in his struggle, it's the slow corners/breaking on some tracks that he's not enjoying with the current tyre/car comibination, I think that';s been very obvious. At Suzuka when you arrive in turn 1, it's fast, and your not coming to a full stop often at this track without having come out of a fast corner leading onto a straight, then breaking, that's the stuff real racers dig into.

Albert Park and Monza are challenges as well, but they don't have a Suzuka Ss first section and or Spa's fast corners, and fast corners, do I really have to educate you on the sport? Fast corners are were the top drivers really make the difference.



AND ALL TRACKS HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH CAR PERFORMANCE DOH! But not all drivers do well in the corners of the world especially the challenging fast ones..


What rubbish. Suzuka has some of the closes team mate battles every year. It is not uncommon for teams to line up two by two with only one or two team mates out of position. If the so called driver tracks were more about the driver then others then they should have the biggest team mate gaps, not the smallest.

As for fast corners, they are not where drivers make the difference. It's impossible to make the difference in the fast corners, as you either have the balance or you don't. (not to mention that many of the fast corners are just flat throttle these days. Must take awesome talent to push the pedal down flat. No wonder only the very best shine :rolleyes: )

Keep educating people about the sport but...

#6639 aditya-now

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 20:52

Or wait-you want me to prove it? ;)


Yes, pleeeeaaaasssseee!!!!!! ;)


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#6640 exmayol

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 21:30

Very solid race for Michael. Too bad the team has pitted him couple laps earlier than necessary and then "sensible" Nico "had enough pace to hold him off".. With LH problems at later stages of the race MS could have had a shot for 5th.

Edited by exmayol, 10 October 2010 - 21:33.


#6641 min12

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:21

Lots of stats and facts, but summary is even Schumacher told us he's going to struggle this year, he doesn't like these front tyres/chassic combination, lack of budget in the cost saving era/no testing means he's been talking up 2011 for most of this year, so when he does have a bad weekend or good weekend this year, I'm not surprised, people can whine about perfect years to retire, he knows what he can do at Suzuka/Spa this year, he knows his abilities. Don't stick around here trying to convince us Schuey's past iit or needs to retire, then your no better then the bad press he's gotten. And it's a waste of your own time, because convincing people of your viewpoint to make them think like you is one of the reasons why threads and posts are never ending, save your time.

Where is it written Schumacher must be really really good in 2010 to be better in 2011/2012 after returning from retirement. This is the same sport where Jenson Button who never retired but was written off still got a title, and the same sport were Mark Webber got no one's attention some seasons back and got writ off, look this year, formula one can change alot in a year, it took 10years with ferrari-with big budgets and testing/hardwork to get him going into the history books. It took 2 full on seasons with Benetton before MS won with them. 1 year with Merc after retiring, it's early days, especially coming from retirement.

I don't know what he told us but I remember his fans, you included, telling he would leave no stone unturned and be the best prepared driver for this season in every respect imaginable. Some more optimistic ones were even putting him as a WDC contender. Now it's funny to read all the excuses and the promises about a better showing in 2011/2012. I am curious to find out what was Haug doing in Kimi's house in Switzerland a couple of months ago, did he drop in just to have a sausage and beer or did they talk business?

#6642 deanfrancis

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 03:24

Very solid race for Michael. Too bad the team has pitted him couple laps earlier than necessary and then "sensible" Nico "had enough pace to hold him off".. With LH problems at later stages of the race MS could have had a shot for 5th.


Im very curious why they didnt leave him out a few laps longer, he was consistently pulling out 0.6 a lap on Nico, even with his worn tyres...

#6643 cheapracer

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 03:37

I don't know what he told us but I remember his fans, you included, telling he would leave no stone unturned and be the best prepared driver for this season in every respect imaginable.


What stupidity, how could anyone reasonably assume any driver could be the best prepared driver after a 3 year layoff and with major car changes in between?

I would like you to find those quotes, even I would support you ......

I honestly thought he would show some after 4 or so races but was a little dissapointed and then hoped that Spa would rekindle the spirit and now am happier and look forward to more progress.


#6644 SeanValen

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 03:56

I don't know what he told us but I remember his fans, you included, telling he would leave no stone unturned and be the best prepared driver for this season in every respect imaginable. Some more optimistic ones were even putting him as a WDC contender. Now it's funny to read all the excuses and the promises about a better showing in 2011/2012. I am curious to find out what was Haug doing in Kimi's house in Switzerland a couple of months ago, did he drop in just to have a sausage and beer or did they talk business?



Don't listen to fans, and don't always think any one of us can be right all of the time, nobody was listening to me when I said Schumacher would come back in 2010, the mercedes rumours were big, but still no one really believed in it until it happened. The same with Schumacher's eventual mercedes success at some point.

The hype and expectation of MS returning sold huge tickets for his ferrari possible return at Spain in 2009, the hype was huge. The winter Mercedes signing was big news, but that is a easy giant ladder to fall from, not everything goes according to plan in life, but the same people who writ off Jenson Button in the past had to watch him get a title, and the same people who writ Mark Webber off may see him get the title this year, and those examples show this sport changes year to year. Even if MS won 1 title with Mercedes after 2-3 years of trying, he'll still be mission complete, he was more closer to perfection in consistency in his career then any other driver, so for him to fall and rise again, that's a matter of waiting. It's a different formula one/cost cutting/no testing era, that preparation you talk about, he's hardly had it, this year has been like one big test session but the team wasn't solving anything, it's not the ideal f1 era for rookie and returning drivers to relearn, especially with restricted budgets.

#6645 seahawk

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 05:39

After the race MSC explained on German TV that the F-Duct on the Merc is still not really working well. During qualifying the F-Duct engagend in the corners, in the race it did not. Interestingly Michaels car has this problem much more often than Nico┬┤s car, which was also confirmed by Ross Brawn. The team failed to find a reason for that.

#6646 Polle

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 05:49

The Merc F-Duct for whatever reason, doesn't even look like an F-Duct. Well they can forget their miseries next year when these things are banned.

#6647 ivand911

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 06:42

Im very curious why they didnt leave him out a few laps longer, he was consistently pulling out 0.6 a lap on Nico, even with his worn tyres...

Since a lot of races, team prefer Nico to lead the team because he have more points. They did this to Michael in Germany too. Nico then stay out 10 more laps just to came in front of Michael. This time they needed Michael to come behind Nico again. Every time they are close Nico is finishing in front. If they wanted Michael to be 6th yesterday they can arrange it very easily. But, they don't wanted that. Maybe Nico is so fragile they don't want to tell him to let Michael ,like Heidfeld let Koba pass. It is not like they fight for the first place. Just team intention was this. They doesn't wanted Michael to get 2 more points that Nico can get. But, they pay for this shit. Justice was done. They doesn't pit Michael in Singapore with first SC just because he can finish in front of Nico.

Edited by ivand911, 11 October 2010 - 06:58.


#6648 ivand911

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 06:48

Being third because everyone else has pitted and he hadn't doesn't mean the team made a stupid pit call to ruin his race as you claimed, it means he was out of sinc and never with any chance of finishing 3rd, it means he was 3rd for one lap before he pitted, as almost everyone else had already pitted and he hadn't.

Read my post 6634 again. Where I said that he could finish 3rd. Just think about Koba strategy then. Michael have very good chance for this too(even better chance). He was with hard tyres, he didn't need pitstop at that stage. He could pit 5-6 laps before race end like Koba and in the points. And team say that they made mistake with his pitstop. They made mistake with the position of other cars. And from the chance to get some points they get zero.

Edited by ivand911, 11 October 2010 - 06:56.


#6649 Number62

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 06:56

Since a lot of races, team prefer Nico to lead the team because he have more points. They did this to Michael in Germany too. Nico then stay out 10 more laps just to came in front of Michael. This time they needed Michael to come behind Nico again. Every time they are close Nico is finishing in front. If they wanted Michael to be 6th yesterday they can arrange it very easily. But, they didn't wanted that. Maybe Nico is so fragile they don't want to tell him to let Michael ,like Heidfeld let Koba pass. It is not like they fight for the first place. Just team intention was this. They didn't want Michael to get 2 more points that Nico can get. But, they pay for this shit. Justice was done. They didn't pit Michael in Singapore with first SC just because he can finish in front of Nico.


If this was true, which it isn't, why did they tell MSC over the radio that he was free to have a go at Nico and 'he won't do anything stupid'?

#6650 ivand911

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:04

If this was true, which it isn't, why did they tell MSC over the radio that he was free to have a go at Nico and 'he won't do anything stupid'?

Question is where they wanted him to come out after the pit? He have every chance to come infront of him. Why to overtake on the track, when was easy thing to do in the pit. He needed only 0,5-1 sec to pass him in the pit. He needed 1-2 more laps. There was not real danger, Heidfeld was 4 sec behind, big window if you ask me. Question is did Michael belive them that Nico will not do anything stupid? I didn't believe it. It was not looking this way from outside. And do we really know what this message means?

Edited by ivand911, 11 October 2010 - 07:06.