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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#6701 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:44

When people talk about 'Ferrari dream team' they always mention Schumacher, Todt, Brawn, Byrne. But never one Phillip Morris.


What they had sponsorship?? WOW what a revelation, who would have thought it .....


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#6702 ivand911

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:52

When we talk about new tyres this season, they also have different tyres on different tracks. One track you have super soft, medium; on the next track you have soft, hard. You gain some knowledge with one tyre combination and on the next track you start from zero again with other combination. I think Michael have somehow better races with soft, hard tyre combination. Next race have this combination again. Then I hope for good race.

#6703 sir jackie walker

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:17

What they had sponsorship?? WOW what a revelation, who would have thought it .....


-Mr Schumacher was the main factor of Ferrari success.
-WHAT they had a driver!?!? Who would have thought it..11!!!??2


Carry on.

#6704 Mr2s

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:43

Still hasent done a Mansell in his 40's thats cause he is not driving the red bull witch would be the equivelent of the Williams Mansell was driving. Put him in a Red Bull and i bet he will win.


Rubbish the Benetton and Williams were pretty equal< You obviously wernt around in that era if you use the Red Bull as an example.
Mansell out qualified the younger Schumacher in a pretty equal car.

#6705 Mr2s

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:45

the tailor made tyres is a myth

and every other driver could test and test - why could they not get the results MS did

I just find it hilariaous that you bought up the "can't drive around problems like his fans said he could"...without mentioning the fact that times have certainly changed in terms of testing....


and I guess the other teams abandoning Bridgetone was a myth too right? what happened, someone used photoshop to write Michelin on the side walls?

#6706 Mr2s

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:48

yes, this is the 7 times world champion, you have him exact.

truly and utterly hopelessly pathetic...enjoy your "thread"...


yes you certainly are.
Those points I brought up were in reply to another poster, they are not my overall opinions of schuamcher, but thanks for your little rant lol.
I have respect for his work ethic and they way he always got the best team around him. I also respected his original decision to retire when someone better came along.

#6707 Mr2s

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:55

It's like doctors look at x-ray photos and know how neck feels when gets 4 Gees.


No, its the German media asking the doctors and Schumacher staff if the injury is serious, and them replying "no" and it getting reported that way in the media.
The after effects of any neck injuries are well known and can last years, that doesn't necessarily mean the original injury was "serious". If it was as serious as the OP made out, schumacher would not have gone about his normal life in the way he did, horse riding, "keeping sharp" in karting etc.

#6708 ivand911

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:19

http://www.planetf1....-Winners-Losers
"Overtaking Move of the Race
Lap 7, Michael Schumacher on Rubens Barrichello for P6
So why not Kobayashi's serial overtaking moves into the hairpin? To be fair, he was lucky to be on the track after mugging Alguersuari for 10th on Lap 12. But more of this later.

Schumacher's pass was sublime because:
a) Rubens and he have a certain amount of history
b) Barrichello would have known it was coming
c) Overtaking around Suzuka is hard enough without a willing overtakee, but around the outside into the final chicane...?
Amazing. "

#6709 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:21

Rubbish the Benetton and Williams were pretty equal< You obviously wernt around in that era if you use the Red Bull as an example.
Mansell out qualified the younger Schumacher in a pretty equal car.


Theres not a single historian that will agree with you that they were equal always giving the nudge to the Williams. Oh and I was around in that era.

Yes Mansell outqualified Hill and MS but in the race both Hill and Schumacher pulled away from Mansell at the rate of one second per lap, something that seems strange to me about that especially if you take his very uncompetitive '95 drives into consideration.

The after effects of any neck injuries are well known and can last years, that doesn't necessarily mean the original injury was "serious". If it was as serious as the OP made out, schumacher would not have gone about his normal life in the way he did, horse riding, "keeping sharp" in karting etc.


How many G's when riding a horse Mate? How many G's in a Kart?

I have suffered neck pain for 30 years that can't even be identified after a small accident and theres some things I can do such as race MX all day that pounds the body including wearing a heavy helmut without an issue and some things I can't such as ride a roller coaster so get a clue on the subject.

IMO calling someone out on an injury is pretty low.

Edited by cheapracer, 12 October 2010 - 09:26.


#6710 Polle

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:29

Rubbish the Benetton and Williams were pretty equal< You obviously wernt around in that era if you use the Red Bull as an example.
Mansell out qualified the younger Schumacher in a pretty equal car.


I am pretty certain the Williams was faster than the Benetton. However I do remember the Williams suffering bad in wet configurations. And Schumacher was no rain schmuck either.

#6711 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:44

http://www.planetf1....-Winners-Losers
"Overtaking Move of the Race
Lap 7, Michael Schumacher on Rubens Barrichello for P6
So why not Kobayashi's serial overtaking moves into the hairpin? To be fair, he was lucky to be on the track after mugging Alguersuari for 10th on Lap 12. But more of this later.

Schumacher's pass was sublime because:
a) Rubens and he have a certain amount of history
b) Barrichello would have known it was coming
c) Overtaking around Suzuka is hard enough without a willing overtakee, but around the outside into the final chicane...?
Amazing. "

I think rubens made a big mistake in the 130R...he lost momentum there and michael went for it
it was brave around the outside but rubens made an error prior to that.

michael made way too much ground between mid corner 130R and the braking point of the chicane.

#6712 slaveceru

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:44

yes you certainly are.
Those points I brought up were in reply to another poster, they are not my overall opinions of schuamcher, but thanks for your little rant lol.
I have respect for his work ethic and they way he always got the best team around him. I also respected his original decision to retire when someone better came along.

Do you now know why he retired or what. I do not know who was so good that Schumacher had to retire or do you think that he was afraid of Kimi? He has already explained why he retired when he did.

#6713 ivand911

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:15

I think rubens made a big mistake in the 130R...he lost momentum there and michael went for it
it was brave around the outside but rubens made an error prior to that.

michael made way too much ground between mid corner 130R and the braking point of the chicane.

I don't think there was any mistake? Just Michael was coming with bigger speed and better traction of the car(it sounds strange about W01). From behind I didn't see any mistake from Rubens.

#6714 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:32

I don't think there was any mistake? Just Michael was coming with bigger speed and better traction of the car(it sounds strange about W01). From behind I didn't see any mistake from Rubens.

i don't think he could carry that much speed in 130R while following another car..
certainly the aero is very bad there since it's a fast turn that requires plenty of front downforce.

rubens must have made some sort of mistake/small slide and lost a bit of momentum there

you can't speak about traction exiting 130R since you have plenty of downforce, it's not a small speed turn.
rubens lost out after the apex showing he made some sort of mistake there

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 12 October 2010 - 11:33.


#6715 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:46

i don't think he could carry that much speed in 130R while following another car..
certainly the aero is very bad there since it's a fast turn that requires plenty of front downforce.

rubens must have made some sort of mistake/small slide and lost a bit of momentum there

you can't speak about traction exiting 130R since you have plenty of downforce, it's not a small speed turn.
rubens lost out after the apex showing he made some sort of mistake there

theres an onboard video of schumacher overtaking barrichello and there is no mistake , it apears as if barrichello bottles it and lifts off for a second where as you can clearly hear schumachers engine flat out they were still pretty equal as they reached the chicane

#6716 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:57

theres an onboard video of schumacher overtaking barrichello and there is no mistake , it apears as if barrichello bottles it and lifts off for a second ...

the second part is my point...it jsut appears rubens had to lift off because he made an error
i don't think anything else can explain the huge momentum michael got out there

#6717 ivand911

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:05

i don't think anything else can explain the huge momentum michael got out there

Maybe this will help:
http://www.fia.com/e...race-speeds.pdf
http://www.fia.com/e...n-race-trap.pdf
Higher top speed?


#6718 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:59

the second part is my point...it jsut appears rubens had to lift off because he made an error
i don't think anything else can explain the huge momentum michael got out there

have you actually watched the video? there is no error he just doesnt have the balls to go full speed in 130R and michael does...

Edited by arknor, 12 October 2010 - 13:01.


#6719 Polle

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:13

Maybe it was an error of judgement of how fast he could take that corner? :p

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#6720 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:28

Maybe it was an error of judgement of how fast he could take that corner? :p

there must have been an error because its michael schumacher... im sure if it was hamilton overtaking kubica or someone it would be hailed as the most epic overtaking manouever this decade . . .

#6721 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:31

Maybe it was an error of judgement of how fast he could take that corner? :p


So it´s Barrichello - Schumacher 1:1 in high stakes overtakings this year. Hungaroring worked for Rubens, Suzuka for Michael.
It says a lot about the level of racing that Michael is on nowadays (and also about the level of argument here) that people here are celebrating that overtake like a championship.

Get a grip, people, it was just an overtake and if you think that Rubens is such a mighty opponent that you have to celebrate this overtake for three days, ask yourself why Michael cannot compete with the big guys anymore, why he was afraid of going to Ferrari and why people like Fernando Alonso (since 2005), Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel are beyond the reach of this fading champion.

#6722 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:35

schumacher the excuse meister - what ever next? gravity has fluctuated a little since 2004 and so changed the driving characteristics of the cars? give over michael, there's nothing more pathetic than endless excuses and your supporters are no better....

you have been completely owned this season by nico and you are getting worse on the whole...


Firstly - it is mostly us making excuses for or against, MS himself has been consistent with nominating the problem since pre season testing.

Secondly - yes, although not completely, he has mostly been owned by Rosberg this season but for you to state he is getting worse especially after Japan is just an inexcusable post and leaves no option other than to call your post ignorant to the facts or simply immature trolling.

And most educated people start sentences and names with high case letters.


#6723 Diablobb81

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:36

In Suzuka he couldn't compete because he didn't have the car for it. Simples.

The rest of your rant is just that. Did you run out of even the pretense of having an argument for your opinions?

#6724 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:44

So it´s Barrichello - Schumacher 1:1 in high stakes overtakings this year. Hungaroring worked for Rubens, Suzuka for Michael.
It says a lot about the level of racing that Michael is on nowadays (and also about the level of argument here) that people here are celebrating that overtake like a championship.

Get a grip, people, it was just an overtake and if you think that Rubens is such a mighty opponent that you have to celebrate this overtake for three days, ask yourself why Michael cannot compete with the big guys anymore, why he was afraid of going to Ferrari and why people like Fernando Alonso (since 2005), Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel are beyond the reach of this fading champion.

1:1 if u dont count the other times schumacher got past him on the starting grid etc sure...

noones trying to say the overtake is great but when people come here claiming barrichello made a mistake and thats why schumacher got by ofcourse where going to provide video evidence that shows it was a genuine overtake because barry was scared to take 130R flat...

even the HRT boys take it flat :rotfl:

#6725 dde

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:53

So it´s Barrichello - Schumacher 1:1 in high stakes overtakings this year. Hungaroring worked for Rubens, Suzuka for Michael.
It says a lot about the level of racing that Michael is on nowadays (and also about the level of argument here) that people here are celebrating that overtake like a championship.

Get a grip, people, it was just an overtake and if you think that Rubens is such a mighty opponent that you have to celebrate this overtake for three days, ask yourself why Michael cannot compete with the big guys anymore, why he was afraid of going to Ferrari and why people like Fernando Alonso (since 2005), Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel are beyond the reach of this fading champion.


Well, Alonso didn't seem that much beyond the reach of Schumacher when Schumacher went from -35 points after Canada 06 to 00 before Suzuka 06. He didn't seem neither in the last 3 GP of 2006.

Edited by dde, 12 October 2010 - 13:53.


#6726 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:54

1:1 if u dont count the other times schumacher got past him on the starting grid etc sure...

noones trying to say the overtake is great but when people come here claiming barrichello made a mistake and thats why schumacher got by ofcourse where going to provide video evidence that shows it was a genuine overtake because barry was scared to take 130R flat...

even the HRT boys take it flat :rotfl:


"High stakes overtaking" was the content, but obviously it escaped your limited attention. Then again, with the second part of your post you fall exactly into the midfield (and even back of the field, HRT) in order to appraise Michael and his mighty go at Rubens.

The music is playing where Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are, my friend.


#6727 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:54

Well, Alonso didn't seem that much beyond the reach of Schumacher when Schumacher went from -35 points after Canada 06 to 00 before Suzuka 06. He didn't seem neither in the last 3 GP of 2006.


Please remind me, who became WDC 2006?

#6728 Diablobb81

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:57

The music is playing where Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are, my friend.



Angels play were there are 7 titles. And 2,1 and 0 is a little bit far from that music. :rotfl:

#6729 dde

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 13:57

Please remind me, who became WDC 2006?


The one who had the best car.



#6730 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:03

"High stakes overtaking" was the content, but obviously it escaped your limited attention. Then again, with the second part of your post you fall exactly into the midfield (and even back of the field, HRT) in order to appraise Michael and his mighty go at Rubens.

The music is playing where Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are, my friend.

no the music is playing where the Red bull , mclaren and ferrari are.

maybe you think hamilton slonso and vettel would be winning races in the mercedes though....

#6731 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:05

Angels play were there are 7 titles. And 2,1 and 0 is a little bit far from that music. :rotfl:


In 2010, MS is nothing but a fallen angel if we use your analogy. It´s even a bit further from the music. Looking at 2011 and beyond, I wonder how many more titles your fallen angel will score, and how many those who have just started.


The one who had the best car.


Ah, so who became WDC in 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 then?

You just rubbished all of Michael´s titles. :lol:


#6732 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:06

no the music is playing where the Red bull , mclaren and ferrari are.

maybe you think hamilton slonso and vettel would be winning races in the mercedes though....


Maybe you think hakkinen, villeneuve and hill would have not won the WDCs in that Ferrari 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 as well.

#6733 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:28

Maybe you think hakkinen, villeneuve and hill would have not won the WDCs in that Ferrari 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 as well.


not this silly argument again we can say that about every year someone won the championship.... oh what if XXX was in the brawn last year , what if xx was in the redbull this year they would have won the championship already.

we did this already in the thread why start it again?

#6734 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:47

there must have been an error because its michael schumacher... im sure if it was hamilton overtaking kubica or someone it would be hailed as the most epic overtaking manouever this decade . . .

I am actually one of his fans so that doesn't work

I am just stating the obvious for me.

it doesn't make the pass less great though. all passes actually have some sort of error from the driver in front....

#6735 Hacklerf

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:52

Interesting how the press is quite after he makes a good race, but not when he has a bad one

#6736 dde

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:57

Maybe you think hakkinen, villeneuve and hill would have not won the WDCs in that Ferrari 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 as well.



2002 and 2004 for sure, 2001 certainly, 2003 probably not, 2000 no chance.



#6737 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 14:59

there must have been an error because its michael schumacher... im sure if it was hamilton overtaking kubica or someone it would be hailed as the most epic overtaking manouever this decade . . .


You got that right - Schumacher has done some great passes and some clever passes this year and I thought the thread was kinda meant for that but ..... :rolleyes:

Funny how if you wander around the net looking for great passes how often the excellent pass on him by Hakkinen at Spa comes up - naysayers heaven that day, a rare moment MS was passed on merit (by another great driver) :lol:

Interesting how the press is quite after he makes a good race, but not when he has a bad one


Well they get their info through this forum didn't you know? :lol:

Edited by cheapracer, 12 October 2010 - 15:00.


#6738 dde

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:00

In 2010, MS is nothing but a fallen angel if we use your analogy. It´s even a bit further from the music. Looking at 2011 and beyond, I wonder how many more titles your fallen angel will score, and how many those who have just started.




Ah, so who became WDC in 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 then?

You just rubbished all of Michael´s titles. :lol:


None of them. Not even Alonso's one in 2006. I just said that losing 35 points in 7-8 GP is not what I Call "being beyond reach". Being tied in the championship with 2 races to go, is not what I call being "beyond reach". And finally being champion thanks to 2 mechanicals problems in the last 2 GP otherwise championship would have been lost, is not what I call "beign beyond reach".

I wouldn't say neither that Raikkonen was beyond reach of Alonso in 2007. But I guess you would. :)

Edited by dde, 12 October 2010 - 15:01.


#6739 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:04

2002 and 2004 for sure, 2001 certainly, 2003 probably not, 2000 no chance.


I think a lot of people think 2004 came easier than it actually did.

I reckon Hakkinen could have matched the titles, the others not.

Only thing is I don't know if Hakkinen had the car development/testing capabilities that MS did although I note that McLaren didn't go backwards with Hakkinen there but then again Mclaren seldom go backwards.

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#6740 dde

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:22

I think a lot of people think 2004 came easier than it actually did.

I reckon Hakkinen could have matched the titles, the others not.


It was difficult to win so many races. He especially won 2 or 3 races than he was the only one to be able to win. But to become champion with that car was not difficult, and Hakkinen, Hill and even Villeneuve would have made it.


Only thing is I don't know if Hakkinen had the car development/testing capabilities that MS did although I note that McLaren didn't go backwards with Hakkinen there but then again Mclaren seldom go backwards.


I'm not sure to understand. I think McLaren always develop good during the season, whoever the drivers are. Even Raikkonen/Montoya.

#6741 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:28

I think a lot of people think 2004 came easier than it actually did.

I reckon Hakkinen could have matched the titles, the others not.

Only thing is I don't know if Hakkinen had the car development/testing capabilities that MS did although I note that McLaren didn't go backwards with Hakkinen there but then again Mclaren seldom go backwards.


With respect, I disagree.

While Mclaren may seem - on the outside at least - the preserve of professionalism with the stiff British upper-lip and equal opportunities ethos, it hasn't really helped them has it?

Since 1998 they have been a WDC or WCC contender barring 2002, 2004, 2006 and 2009. They have only delivered the double in 1998. Since then their treasure chest has been fairly empty - barring 2008. That is quite a small success ratio when you analyse the core statistics.

I believe their on-track policy has held them back. Either that or they aren't as advanced technically as we are lead to believe.

#6742 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:40

2002 and 2004 for sure, 2001 certainly, 2003 probably not, 2000 no chance.


Good and fair evaluation! :up:


#6743 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:42

2002 and 2004 for sure, 2001 certainly, 2003 probably not, 2000 no chance.


So the 2000 one is ironical, I have to say - Hakkinen in the Ferrari would have had no chance to beat Hakkinen in the McLaren!


#6744 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:46

I wouldn't say neither that Raikkonen was beyond reach of Alonso in 2007. But I guess you would. :)


That´s a completely different matter, which doesn´t fit into the MS thread - there was an inside story going on between FIA and McLaren - Alonso driving strangely muted in Interlagos, making up the numbers - let us just say that no McLaren was destined to become WDC in 2007...


#6745 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 15:50

So the 2000 one is ironical, I have to say - Hakkinen in the Ferrari would have had no chance to beat Hakkinen in the McLaren!

probably would have been schumacher in the mclaren...

#6746 cheapracer

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 18:19

With respect, I disagree.

While Mclaren may seem - on the outside at least - the preserve of professionalism with the stiff British upper-lip and equal opportunities ethos, it hasn't really helped them has it?

Since 1998 they have been a WDC or WCC contender barring 2002, 2004, 2006 and 2009. They have only delivered the double in 1998. Since then their treasure chest has been fairly empty - barring 2008. That is quite a small success ratio when you analyse the core statistics.

I believe their on-track policy has held them back. Either that or they aren't as advanced technically as we are lead to believe.


I'm not sure what you disagree with because I mostly agree with what you say here! :lol:

In the 90's McLaren were hit with engine supply problems but their chassis was certainly a match for anything as was Hakkinen and the 2000's just went bad with one of their model cars that they struggeled to recover fully from after it put them behind the 8 ball.

To keep the post on topic I actually always believed MS would end up at McLaren for a stint.

#6747 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 18:37

To keep the post on topic I actually always believed MS would end up at McLaren for a stint.


Ron Dennis with his stupid approaches made sure that this would not happen.

Remember that come-together between Ron and Michael? "I want you to be careful. Something might happen, if you are always on the limit. Be careful!" :lol:
As much as I don´t like Schumacher, but this approach was too much, paternizing in the extreme, wholly unacceptable to Michael.

So Michael at McLaren was a sure no.


#6748 Sakae

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 18:50

Senna would ignore your whole shopping list of excuses.


The list you comment on is my list of factors Schumacher has to cope with, not his list of "excuses".

I have seen Senna in person race on a few tracks, just as once or twice in paddock, and I know for fact that Senna was one of most bitching people when he had his moment, and who would not in all likelyhood put up with crap that Schumacher is exposed.

Your comment is without value, nonsensical and derisive of Schumacher; nothing more.

Edited by Sakae, 12 October 2010 - 19:15.


#6749 cheapracer

cheapracer
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Posted 12 October 2010 - 19:49

put up with crap that Schumacher is exposed.


A recent dissapointment to see was when Schumacher appeared on Top Gear and Clarkson put him through that crap. Worse than that idiot (BBC?) reporter who kept asking him about Hamilton for 10 minutes straight.

Clarkson had a very rare chance that few have to get some information on such incidents as Jerez 1997 such as how or why it came about, what led up to the blatant and stupid ramming incident.
I would be asking questions such as did unseen on track or off track incidents happen during 1997 or 1996 (such as JV's chop on him at Spa) that led to animosity between JV and him?

So many unanswered questions, what an opportunity lost - you idiot Clarkson.




#6750 Sakae

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 21:20

Michael is, and always was cognizant of animosity against him from certain sources, yet he endures it with calmness. I must give it to him, that his self-confidence and control is awesome. He wins that encounter, especially when viewers recognize a dirty setup to embarrass him, and public is more than happy to see a reporter or mediator to make an ass of himself.

I do not know what to think about Brits. The other day I spend a week with several of them in Italy, and we had good time, yet when I visit Autosport and BB, then I wonder if I should ever return. From Atlas days things has changed.

I do like however Cambridge University, so do not come down on me that I hate all what is British. Brits also gave us football; unfortunately for them, they forgot this year how to play it. What else is there to say?

Edited by Sakae, 12 October 2010 - 21:22.