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#6751 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:40

michael was very magnanamous in that "interview" and alowed clarkson to take the piss out of him. interesting the volume of his welcome was pretty impressive.

This was new interview? Or the old one about Stig?


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#6752 cheapracer

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:42

This was new interview? Or the old one about Stig?


He lapped in a black FX then walked in as the Stig.


#6753 arknor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:05

He lapped in a black FX then walked in as the Stig.

probably a rehearsed interview with how scripted top gear has become

#6754 SeanValen

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:08

Ron Dennis with his stupid approaches made sure that this would not happen.

Remember that come-together between Ron and Michael? "I want you to be careful. Something might happen, if you are always on the limit. Be careful!" :lol:
As much as I don´t like Schumacher, but this approach was too much, paternizing in the extreme, wholly unacceptable to Michael.

So Michael at McLaren was a sure no.




Your not allowed to keep your trophies at Mclaren, just copies. Prost threw his trophy in the crowd back in the days before he left for ferrari as he knew he wouldn't be getting the original anyway. I think mclaren with Ron just too uptight in making the team look too strict with policies and procedures that took the fun out of the belebrations.

Ron's ego is almost like the team must be more important then driver taking credit or celebrating his way.

Edited by SeanValen, 13 October 2010 - 09:09.


#6755 baddog

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:19

probably a rehearsed interview with how scripted top gear has become

Yeah good luck getting Michael (or tom cruise) to turn up for an interview rehearsal ;)



#6756 Lifew12

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:25

Clarkson had a very rare chance that few have to get some information on such incidents as Jerez 1997 such as how or why it came about, what led up to the blatant and stupid ramming incident.


And you think that others haven't had that opportunity in the last 13 years? I would wager many have asked him, and he's given the same scripted answer - whatever that may be.

#6757 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:30

michael was very magnanamous in that "interview" and alowed clarkson to take the piss out of him. interesting the volume of his welcome was pretty impressive.


Never been to a TV studio before then? Its not impressive at all, certainly not when compared to a genuine one at a motor race circuit.The audience are jeed up and instructed.
Michael has always had a good and genuine reception at silverstone, he has always had a big following in the UK. Far more telling than a TV show.

Edited by Mr2s, 13 October 2010 - 09:57.


#6758 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:36

Theres not a single historian that will agree with you that they were equal always giving the nudge to the Williams. Oh and I was around in that era.

Yes Mansell outqualified Hill and MS but in the race both Hill and Schumacher pulled away from Mansell at the rate of one second per lap, something that seems strange to me about that especially if you take his very uncompetitive '95 drives into consideration.



How many G's when riding a horse Mate? How many G's in a Kart?

I have suffered neck pain for 30 years that can't even be identified after a small accident and theres some things I can do such as race MX all day that pounds the body including wearing a heavy helmut without an issue and some things I can't such as ride a roller coaster so get a clue on the subject.

IMO calling someone out on an injury is pretty low.



So youre claiming its ok to ride horses and race karts with a "serious" kneck injury? jeez and you call me low.

Mansell out qualifying the two title contenders, and the look on schumacher's face was impressive on its own. You dont need to find anything to belittle that achievement. If Schumacher out qualified Vettel and webber in the next race this place would explode.

As for getting a clue.
Ive had kneck injuries from karting, and karts do pull G's. Michael uses Karts to train for F1 fitness, as do Button and several other drivers.

Its truly amazing the lengths some people will go to to make excuses for schumacher it really is. His injury was unfortunate, and no doubt gives him problems, as did Johnny herbert's leg and Mansell's back.

Edited by Mr2s, 13 October 2010 - 10:11.


#6759 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:51

Theres not a single historian that will agree with you that they were equal always giving the nudge to the Williams. Oh and I was around in that era.

Yes Mansell outqualified Hill and MS but in the race both Hill and Schumacher pulled away from Mansell at the rate of one second per lap, something that seems strange to me about that especially if you take his very uncompetitive '95 drives into consideration.



You compared the 94 williams to the 2010 Red Bull. Ridiculous statement.

Who are these historians?

Senna told prost he was convinced Benetton were cheating. They were indeed caught and punished at least 3 times for cheating. On those occasions I very much doubt the Williams was as good, especially with Senna complaining about the handling, as did Hill and Mansell. It was later admitted by Newey the Williams had a design fault.
I can also quote David Williams from the team saying at times they were working very hard to catch Benetton.

Edited by Mr2s, 13 October 2010 - 09:55.


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#6760 arknor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:53

Yeah good luck getting Michael (or tom cruise) to turn up for an interview rehearsal ;)

cruise and cameron only went on if they got the fastest times :rotfl:

anyone who believes otherwise is gullible they never drove those lap times , even the stigs times we know were faked from people who borrowed the cars to topgear.

no doubt michael already knew what clarkson would say/ask

#6761 arknor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:57

You compared the 94 williams to the 2010 Red Bull. Ridiculous statement.

Senna told prost he was convinced Benetton were cheating. They were indeed caught and punished at least 3 times for cheating. On those occasions I very much doubt the Williams was as good, especially with Senna complaining about the handling, as did Hill and Mansell. It was later admitted by Newey the Williams had a design fault.

senna claimed benneton had traction control yet it was never found to be true , it was never in the ECU sourcecode...

launch control was and only launch control yet it was reported in a way as if it were traction control "launch control [traction control]" yes the traction of the launch was controlled but after the car launch there was no traction control in the slow corners etc.

senna couldnt possible be slower than someone else , to him he was god its not possible there must be some reason , ahh yes YES! benneton must have cheats! yes yes look it is traction control

er wait a minute mate it wasnt you just got owned :rotfl:

#6762 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:04

senna claimed benneton had traction control yet it was never found to be true , it was never in the ECU sourcecode...

launch control was and only launch control yet it was reported in a way as if it were traction control "launch control [traction control]" yes the traction of the launch was controlled but after the car launch there was no traction control in the slow corners etc.

senna couldnt possible be slower than someone else , to him he was god its not possible there must be some reason , ahh yes YES! benneton must have cheats! yes yes look it is traction control

er wait a minute mate it wasnt you just got owned :rotfl:



Wait a minute, you reading wikipedia makes me owned :rotfl:

It couldnt be proved what any teams were doing in the race. Whats your next move, pull a white rabbit out of a hat to try and own me?


Say what you want about Senna, he was convinced they were cheating and he was right :clap:

Edited by Mr2s, 13 October 2010 - 10:04.


#6763 Nuvol

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:12

20-0 . cry me a river senna fans.

beaten at his own home soil :smoking: then couldnt even start properly. poor senna

#6764 Lifew12

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:16

senna claimed benneton had traction control yet it was never found to be true , it was never in the ECU sourcecode...


Interesting you should say that. A 94 Benneton, as driven by Michael, was recently sold by a dealer in restored to 'as 1994 specification, including traction control....'

#6765 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:19

20-0 . cry me a river senna fans.

beaten at his own home soil :smoking: then couldnt even start properly. poor senna


Overtaken in the pits, with an illegal fuel rig.
Senna was proved right all along. Cheats.

#6766 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:22

Senna???????

#6767 Nuvol

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:24

Overtaken in the pits, with an illegal fuel rig.
Senna was proved right all along. Cheats.

He saw a GOD, sure he was right. Then God told him to kill himself at the track :drunk:

He couldnt lose. as he shown almost killing prost;

#6768 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:40

the tailor made tyres is a myth


So much so that it caused enough of a stir for this:

Teams move to ensure fair tyre deals
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/87424

"During Bridgestone's time in F1, when there was a tyre war with Michelin, a lot of the early development was done by Ferrari and Michael Schumacher - which gave the team an edge in understanding the car/tyre relationship"


:rotfl:

Would any schumacher fan honestly accept Alonso or Hamilton having this kind of "edge" throughout Pirelli's contract.

NO thought not.



#6769 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:52

So much so that it caused enough of a stir for this:

Teams move to ensure fair tyre deals
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/87424

"During Bridgestone's time in F1, when there was a tyre war with Michelin, a lot of the early development was done by Ferrari and Michael Schumacher - which gave the team an edge in understanding the car/tyre relationship"


:rotfl:

Would any schumacher fan honestly accept Alonso or Hamilton having this kind of "edge" throughout Pirelli's contract.

NO thought not.

Yes, because Michelin didn't have favorite team then?


#6770 arknor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:16

Interesting you should say that. A 94 Benneton, as driven by Michael, was recently sold by a dealer in restored to 'as 1994 specification, including traction control....'

as i said before it was reported by news sites as "launch control" with brackets "[traction control] besides it that does not make it traction control . . .

the only traction control was the traction during the intial launch of the car off the grid after that there was nothing else.. fia investigated , found and concluded end of

#6771 Lifew12

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:17

as i said before it was reported by news sites as "launch control" with brackets "[traction control] besides it that does not make it traction control . . .

the only traction control was the traction during the intial launch of the car off the grid after that there was nothing else.. fia investigated , found and concluded end of


But the advert said it was equipped with traction control, not launch control (in fact, it was sold twice in a year with the same blurb).



#6772 Clatter

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:21

Yes, because Michelin didn't have favorite team then?


They might have, but not to the extent that BS did with Ferrari.


#6773 arknor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:42

But the advert said it was equipped with traction control, not launch control (in fact, it was sold twice in a year with the same blurb).

if it really has traction control which i very much doubt its not the same car that run any championship races acording to the FIA's investigation into the source code for the ECU, mclaren has some naughites in there source code aswell to do with gear shifts but it was deemed legal bt the FIA

#6774 Lifew12

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:44

if it really has traction control which i very much doubt its not the same car that run any championship races acording to the FIA's investigation into the source code for the ECU, mclaren has some naughites in there source code aswell to do with gear shifts but it was deemed legal bt the FIA


What if the source codes were cleverly hidden? It was one of Schumachers winning cars from 94.

#6775 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:50

Can someone check this at MGP site:
#F1 Learn more about strategy with James Vowles, our team’s Chief Strategist http://bit.ly/cMSQlp
I can't read it. I login and still can see what this guy said. Could be explanation of pit situation at the last race. Copy/paste here or in MGP thread?

Edited by ivand911, 13 October 2010 - 11:53.


#6776 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:53

if it really has traction control which i very much doubt its not the same car that run any championship races acording to the FIA's investigation into the source code for the ECU, mclaren has some naughites in there source code aswell to do with gear shifts but it was deemed legal bt the FIA



Benetton were fined $100,000 for refusing to hand over their source code. (Ferrari were also being investigate but handed theirs over) Benetton's source code contained data that used traction control in conjunction with gear change management for perfect starts.
Nobody can prove how or if it was used in the race.
Senna (the last driver to win with TC) claimed something weird was happening in corners and the Benetton had much better traction. Benetton were blatantly lying for the reasons why the code was left on the car. We can only draw our own Conclusions from Senna's statements, Benetton's lies and further cheating.

IMO the code that Benetton refused to hand over, that was later found to have invisible options, was used being used illegally during races by Michael Schumacher.

Edited by Mr2s, 13 October 2010 - 11:55.


#6777 Clatter

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:55

if it really has traction control which i very much doubt its not the same car that run any championship races acording to the FIA's investigation into the source code for the ECU, mclaren has some naughites in there source code aswell to do with gear shifts but it was deemed legal bt the FIA


The FIA's investigation found that the source did contain hidden TC code that could be accessed by the driver. The only thing they couldn't prove was that it actually been used. Personally i think the fact it was there should have been enough to have been expelled from the competition.


#6778 aditya-now

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:55

probably would have been schumacher in the mclaren...


Thanks for the link, arknor, that was exactly the one clip I was referring to, it's ridiculous how Ron Dennis is paternalizing Michael. Fun how Michael smiled, he didn't like that approach of Ron Dennis at all, the chemistry is simply not there.

Coming back, Mika Hakkinen in the Ferrari would have had to beat Mika Hakkinen in the McLaren then....


#6779 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:02

Mika was a fantastic driver, really complete package.

probably MS's best rival

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#6780 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:08

Thanks for the link, arknor, that was exactly the one clip I was referring to, it's ridiculous how Ron Dennis is paternalizing Michael. Fun how Michael smiled, he didn't like that approach of Ron Dennis at all, the chemistry is simply not there.



The TV camera hardly made it the most natural environment.
Not that I think Ron would have appeared much warmer, but I can see exactly where he is coming from with Michael being beyond the limit. I think Michael just knows he is invincible, coming out of plenty of wrecked Benetton's and Ferrari's where other drivers havn't been so lucky.






#6781 aditya-now

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:09

Mika was a fantastic driver, really complete package.

probably MS's best rival


At least the one whom Michael himself acknowledged. Probably because he beat Mika in the end, so he had reason to be magnaminous. He had trouble acknowledging Alonso, though, probably because he was well and truly beaten by Fernando....

#6782 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:10

Mika was a fantastic driver, really complete package.

probably MS's best rival


Does it really take much thought? The only other rival he beat was Hill.

I still feel nearly 100 races before his first win doesn't really = complete package for Mika.

Edited by Mr2s, 13 October 2010 - 12:12.


#6783 aditya-now

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:11

I think Michael just knows he is invincible, coming out of plenty of wrecked Benetton's and Ferrari's where other drivers havn't been so lucky.


I don't think "he knows it", he believes it, and that belief can be dangerous, as we have seen with Senna.


#6784 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:13

Mercedes admit mistake over Schumacher strategy
13 October 2010

James Vowles, Chief Strategist for Mercedes GP, has admitted – with the benefit of hindsight – Michael Schumacher should have pitted one lap later in Sunday’s Japanese Grand Prix, therefore allowing him to stay ahead of team-mate Nico Rosberg and perhaps attack an ailing Lewis Hamilton late in the race.

Schumacher found himself stuck behind Rosberg for some 25 laps before the latter crashed in Japan, with the team unable to deploy instructions for the quicker German to overtake his younger team partner (who had pitted in the opening stages and was running greater worn tyres) due to sporting regulations.

http://www.gpupdate....acher-strategy/

Bad Michael ,coming fast from the pit, making team look bad. Bad, bad,bad boy. I think they need new Chief Strategist. Excuses, you are doing it wrong. In Germany I stop counting their strategy "mistakes".

Edited by Buttoneer, 13 October 2010 - 16:04.
Do not quote full articles


#6785 Sakae

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:27

With that is Mr. Vowles explaining to the world how you execute support of a designated driver no. 1 (Rosberg) at MGP?

Edited by Sakae, 13 October 2010 - 12:28.


#6786 arknor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:28

Mercedes admit mistake over Schumacher strategy
13 October 2010

James Vowles, Chief Strategist for Mercedes GP, has admitted – with the benefit of hindsight – Michael Schumacher should have pitted one lap later in Sunday’s Japanese Grand Prix, therefore allowing him to stay ahead of team-mate Nico Rosberg and perhaps attack an ailing Lewis Hamilton late in the race.

Schumacher found himself stuck behind Rosberg for some 25 laps before the latter crashed in Japan, with the team unable to deploy instructions for the quicker German to overtake his younger team partner (who had pitted in the opening stages and was running greater worn tyres) due to sporting regulations.

http://www.gpupdate....acher-strategy/

Bad Michael ,coming fast from the pit, making team look bad. Bad, bad,bad boy. I think they need new Chief Strategist. Excuses, you are doing it wrong. In Germany I stop counting their strategy "mistakes".

yea as f1fanatic posted they could have kept michael out for 2 more lap and he wouldnt have had any problems with heidfeld

#6787 arknor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:29

The FIA's investigation found that the source did contain hidden TC code that could be accessed by the driver. The only thing they couldn't prove was that it actually been used. Personally i think the fact it was there should have been enough to have been expelled from the competition.

source? because all they found what launch control

Benetton were fined $100,000 for refusing to hand over their source code. (Ferrari were also being investigate but handed theirs over) Benetton's source code contained data that used traction control in conjunction with gear change management for perfect starts.
Nobody can prove how or if it was used in the race.
Senna (the last driver to win with TC) claimed something weird was happening in corners and the Benetton had much better traction. Benetton were blatantly lying for the reasons why the code was left on the car. We can only draw our own Conclusions from Senna's statements, Benetton's lies and further cheating.

IMO the code that Benetton refused to hand over, that was later found to have invisible options, was used being used illegally during races by Michael Schumacher.

but it was later handed over as was mclarens and in it they only found launch control, there was no evidence of traction control only launch control.

sennas claims were unfounded he just didnt like beeing a loser

Edited by arknor, 13 October 2010 - 12:32.


#6788 BRK

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:31

At least the one whom Michael himself acknowledged. Probably because he beat Mika in the end, so he had reason to be magnaminous. He had trouble acknowledging Alonso, though, probably because he was well and truly beaten by Fernando....


You can sing praises of your beloved idol as many times as you want,it's not going to change the fact that MS considered MH to be his greatest rival - in more ways than one. They were also good friends off track,something that's not really a given with a person like Alonso. As an MS fan I respect MH way more than I do Alonso.

#6789 as65p

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:32

With that is Mr. Vowles explaining to the world how you execute support of a designated driver no. 1 (Rosberg) at MGP?


I'm really torn about this. Just can't decide what's more fun:

a) seeing Schumacher toroughly beaten, fair and square, by Rosberg

b) seeing Schumacher get "Barrichello" treatment from his team

Damn...

:p

#6790 BRK

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:33

Mercedes admit mistake over Schumacher strategy

“However, with the benefit of hindsight, we should have kept Michael out for one further lap, putting him in a position to maintain his place over Nico and not still be at risk from Nick Heidfeld.”
http://www.gpupdate....acher-strategy/


Amen. :up:

#6791 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:34

I'm really torn about this. Just can't decide what's more fun:

a) seeing Schumacher toroughly beaten, fair and square, by Rosberg

b) seeing Schumacher get "Barrichello" treatment from his team

Damn...

:p

And you don't get feeling that a) is because of b)? :rotfl:


#6792 Clatter

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:35

source? because all they found what launch control


but it was later handed over as was mclarens and in it they only found launch control, there was no evidence of traction control only launch control.

sennas claims were unfounded he just didnt like beeing a loser


Your right, my mistake.


#6793 as65p

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:39

And you don't get feeling that a) is because of b)? :rotfl:


If you read slowly again, a) and b) can't be both true at the same time (hint: the "fair and square" part!).

:wave:

#6794 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:45

If you read slowly again, a) and b) can't be both true at the same time (hint: the "fair and square" part!).

:wave:


So Barrichello wasn't beaten fair and square? Rofl.

Edited by Diablobb81, 13 October 2010 - 12:46.


#6795 Mr2s

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:46

source? because all they found what launch control


but it was later handed over as was mclarens and in it they only found launch control, there was no evidence of traction control only launch control.

sennas claims were unfounded he just didnt like beeing a loser


Launch control is what they called it, and that was achieved by using traction control with gear change managment at the start. Which is more than just 'launch' if gear change is involved afaic.

The fact that it was handed over eventually, doesnt change the fact Benetton had something to hide.





#6796 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:47

If you read slowly again, a) and b) can't be both true at the same time (hint: the "fair and square" part!).

:wave:

I just see that something is wrong in the team. :)
For me Ross and Chief Strategist James Vowles are making decisions on the pit wall. And two race engineers are only connections with the drivers. In this case Ross Brawn is responsible for everything that is happening. Didn't expected that. Especially if they don't fight for wins and Championships.

Edited by ivand911, 13 October 2010 - 12:51.


#6797 as65p

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:54

I just see that something is wrong in the team. :)
For me Ross and Chief Strategist James Vowles are making decisions on the pit wall. And two race engineers are only connections with the drivers. In this case Ross Brawn is responsible for everything that is happening.


Just as he was through all of Schumachers career (bar one year, 1996 I think).

So what does it tell about Schumachers first career, if RB can now secretly screw MS, taking even the man himself almost a whole season to notice?

Mindboggling, isn't it? :)

#6798 arknor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:54

Launch control is what they called it, and that was achieved by using traction control with gear change managment at the start. Which is more than just 'launch' if gear change is involved afaic.

The fact that it was handed over eventually, doesnt change the fact Benetton had something to hide.

still not traction control it was only used to launch the car as found as fact by FIA when they discovered the 13th option and later when they recieved the source code the EU.

benneton werent the only ones hiding stuff in the ecu code and ofcourse they were found guilty of using launch control anyone trying to claim it had anything to do with traction in the corners is lieing unless they can provide a source which is impossible

#6799 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:55

Schumacher confident for the future
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/87434
"Honestly I have been on the pace from lap one in Singapore, in a way after just getting on the track," he said. "But that was a race where, for whatever reason from a certain point, the performance dropped away significantly.
"We made some analysis and we saw some reasons, but it was very awkward."

Schumi: Merc team need to stay united
http://www.planetf1....-To-Stay-United

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#6800 as65p

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:58

So Barrichello wasn't beaten fair and square? Rofl.


The implication is obviously, pretending for a second the RB=anti-MS conspiracy theorie would be true, that Barrichello was beaten just as unfair and nonsquare as MS is this year.

Anyone who now starts to blame secondary treatment for MS' struggles surely must agree on that, or not? :smoking: