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#651 FerrariF1Fan

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 21:29

No they are all ahead of him on the WDC running. :wave:


Who cares?!

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#652 FerrariF1Fan

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 21:32

I guarantee you this, Nico wont struggle to overtake Alguesuari.


Right, he won't even come close to him. :p

#653 valachus

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 21:48

To be fair, what he does now doesn't tell much about the past, if anything. What it does tell is that right here right now, at the age of 41 and after a 3 year break, MS isn't that special anymore.

Come on, even his fans must admit that. Those were precisley the difficult conditions today he and Brawn used to excel in, because MS made it work most of the time. No excuses like "I planned to push the next lap" back then, because he had the confidence to go all out every lap.

Overall he's still doing far from bad, but the magic seems gone.

You would have to agree however that the Merc is currently just the 4th best car on the grid, there's only so much a dead horse could be kicked around. And I sense a whiff of caution about their race strategy and tactics (I think RB said that Nico asked to start on intermediates in Q3 but was denied it), the team is still pretty conservative about going all out until the European leg of the season comes and, hopefully, some much needed hardware updates come out too.

However, there's also a sense of steady progress they're undergoing, kind of reminds me of the 1996 season (MS started that season outqualified by Irvine and spinning out of race in Melbourne, a lapped 3rd in Interlagos, DNF in Argentine and so on...) - only that now we've got limited testing, limited engines per season, compulsory pitstops and compound changes, limited gearboxes per season, limited tyres per races... which is going to be interesting in a gimmicky way in the 2nd half of the season but is conducing to a start as dull as watching paint dry.

It's a wholly different ballgame now, the W01 was born handicapped for chrissake, the team is by no means the largest or the richest one, and Schumi doesn't have the Fiorano track to pound from dusk till dawn in order to come to speed after 3 years!

This is it, in a nutshell.

Why cannot his admirers accept this simple premise. He was once the greatest. To quote the bard: "But every fair from fair sometime declines. By chance or nature's changing course untrimmed" or words to that affect. :p

I tried to make a simple observation that his performance had been "average" (because he finished 10th out of 14 finishers) and I got a bunch of "hate mail" along with being termed a "hater", "troll", "having an agenda"!!!?! WTF!!!??!

Some people are so pathetic. They cannot bear to hear any evaluation of their hero which dares to suggest that he is not the most dominant driver in the field today. Unless you derive your livelihood from his being "numero uno", get over it. You'll be the happier for accepting whatever he can accomplish; even if it isn't complete domination.

[I fully agree with the rest of the post, mind you :wave: :up:]

It's a long season still ahead and we'll have to wait and see. Rubens ended 2009, IMO, in better form than Jenson, and the BGP intra-team battle was one of the highlights of the season, let's wait and see and in the meanwhile just enjoy the sport folks :smoking: There are 4 WDCs on the grid today and MS is the best positioned one at the start, third race on and he outqualifies them all with ease, how about that for some reverse hater PR spin?

#654 SeanValen

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 21:50

theres no way u can sit in your armchair and after 2 weekends predict hes lost his magic.

the guys coming off a 3 year break.give him half a season atleast.if hes still consistently off rosberg's pace then,perhaps one can ''tentatively'' state age has taken its toll on him.

i just cant figure out why so many people want him to retire..im not a fan of the man at all..never been,probably never will..but i have no qualms in admitting,his return to f1 brings nothing but excitement .who doesnt want to see him race?..doesnt matter if yer a fan or a hater



I think it just shows how eager everyone is to see him on the podium doing the Schumi leap, everyone is waiting for it, even some who won't admit it, it's been a while. I personally think the biggest problem and it was a problem last year as well when he was almost going to race with ferrari, that with this testing ban and these fly away taces, there's just not the time to work on set ups and advancement, and tyre evaluation, I'm sure Schumi had he known the extreme wets don't last as long, he would of done a better lap in the last quali session, as he did in all previous sessions leading up to the final one that counted. The potential is there, we know he made a improvement from bahrain in melbourne although not reflected in the final result, again in sepang quali, but there are sensiable reasons for what should of been better results, had Michael looked off it across all sessions in quali today and in melbrourne, then his damaged car in melbourne along with him being blocked in quali, and the wet tyre fading in sepang quali wouldn't of made a difference, but the siigns are hard to ignore, he does have performance, but I also think he's missing that little luck in showing what he wants to do, so far 2 quali sessions of his have been tampered with either blocking and or wet tyre issues, and one race he had a first corner problem which decided his race, so on the otherhand Nico has been solid, but he's also been very how can I say it, more invisable and almost untouchable by the whole field, he's managed to avoid trouble so far, Michael could do with a bit of that so they can be compared better.. But allso it's gotta be promising for Michael , he's been able to make progress without actual car changes and testing that he would have enjoyed in all other years for his career, the testing ban itself is perhaps the biggest hurdle for him in this come back. It's his challenge though, he has targets, considering the drives he has done and what's he's achieved, his ability to adapt, team work ethic and need for challenge, it's too hard to write him off of all people, his potential is most of all respected among all drivers. He is more patient to wait for progress then most other drivers and fans I think.

Edited by SeanValen, 03 April 2010 - 21:59.


#655 99cent

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 21:55

:up:


He was amazing in Q2 and in the third free practice.....He was a victim of bad timing in Q3

Why do people think hes going to be on the pace right away after 3 years being off?

Yeah he has 100million in the bank and 7 world titles...hes clearly not gonna have the same sense of urgency as his team mate....but he still has the pace...give him time to get his reflexes back

#656 Alonzo

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 21:55

The gap between Michael and Rosberg in Q3 is really strange as Schumi was doing well on Q1/Q2.

Anyway, something that is important is that for the first time Schumacher was faster than Rosberg in a session in dry conditions. Overall it was about 1 tenth of difference in FP3 pro Schumi but looking at best sector times, Schumi sector times were S1-24.409, S2-31.059 and S3-38.385 while Rosberg times were S1-24.486, S2-31.270 and S3-38.331

Which means they are almost even on the long straights/low speed corners sector 1 & 2 but Schumi is more than 2 tenths faster on the high speed corners sector 2.

The important thing is to see improvement and I reckon this is happening.

#657 Talryyn

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:02

I guarantee you this, Nico wont struggle to overtake Alguesuari. Anyway, wont it be fun seeing Nico win tomorrow?;)

With a broken car he might! ;) Nico is starting next to Webber, so they both need to survive the first corner - well it might be a safety car start which will really bugger things up.

#658 Talryyn

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:05

The gap between Michael and Rosberg in Q3 is really strange as Schumi was doing well on Q1/Q2.

Anyway, something that is important is that for the first time Schumacher was faster than Rosberg in a session in dry conditions. Overall it was about 1 tenth of difference in FP3 pro Schumi but looking at best sector times, Schumi sector times were S1-24.409, S2-31.059 and S3-38.385 while Rosberg times were S1-24.486, S2-31.270 and S3-38.331

Which means they are almost even on the long straights/low speed corners sector 1 & 2 but Schumi is more than 2 tenths faster on the high speed corners sector 2.

The important thing is to see improvement and I reckon this is happening.

What was his lap going to be before the red flag, he was on a flyer? Strange that they said the wets went off so quickly, I guess parts of the track were dry enough to cause issues with the full wets. I remember the teams looking closely at the tyres when the pitted between sessions, and one team (FI maybe) had some chewed up inters.

#659 Kenaltgr

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:08

Another masterclass from Schumacher the rainmaster. Rosberg 1.1 secs faster in same car, same tyres, same fuel load. Exceptional performance.

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#660 99cent

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:10

"In Q3, Nico had a great first lap to achieve his time for second position, however the wet tyres degraded very quickly and Michael suffered particularly on his second quick lap and was not able to improve. It’s very pleasing to have achieved our best grid position of the season here in Sepang for PETRONAS’s home race.” Ross Brawn


"Michael decided to do a ‘safe’ lap and wanted to push hard on the lap afterwards but the wet tyres unfortunately only lasted one lap at their peak." Nobert Huag


MICHAEL SCHUMACHER
“I am obviously a little disappointed with my result today as it was evident from the earlier qualifying sessions that we looked pretty good and I clearly could have achieved more. On my last run in Q3, I wanted to secure a lap time and then go for the second lap but after I finished my first quick lap, the tyres were already gone so I could not go for it anymore. Though it is good to know the limits of the wet tyres for tomorrow, now I have to concentrate fully on the race. Congratulations to Nico today for scoring our first front row qualifying result.”

#661 Mclaren4ever

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:13

That´s not the "old" Schumacher anymore: too nice in interviews, talks things up "oh yes my teammate was half a second quicker but who cares" wtf?
We´re already reaching the time where people feel sorry for him, after 3 races...
A second slower than Rosberg, who never showed anything promising under those conditions so far. That MUST really hurt him

#662 99cent

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:20

That´s not the "old" Schumacher anymore: too nice in interviews, talks things up "oh yes my teammate was half a second quicker but who cares" wtf?
We´re already reaching the time where people feel sorry for him, after 3 races...
A second slower than Rosberg, who never showed anything promising under those conditions so far. That MUST really hurt him



He has no sense of urgency anymore..... In the beginning of the season everyone was kissing his ass and saying how great he is........He always done well when hes been abit on the angry side and had the underdog label


The media need to get on his case and peer pressure him into trying a bit harder....hes much too relaxed at the moment....after qualifying he couldn't stop smiling during the driver weight ins

Ofcourse Ross brawn and Nobert haug wouldn't dare to push his buttons

#663 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:24

..give him time to get his reflexes back

his reflexes are just fine...
he needs more confindence in the car, but he's pretty much there also.

so far nico has beat him fair and square in 2 race...a lot more starts to go..


#664 ali.unal

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:25

It's a strange relationship between Michael and me, which obviously Schumacher would not give a damn. I've been watching the guy since his fights with Senna and that were the very reason why I supported him; his agile style, passion and sheer speed. Over the years, even during the infamous 2005 year, I've never lost any faith in this guy. I always believed that out of blue he would do a minor miracle and find the tenths he would need just as in 1998 Hungary, 2004 France and 2006 China. Even in 2006 Brazilian GP, I hoped that he'd somehow win the race and Alonso'd retire hence the championship. This is not about blind faith, it's just the instinct that Michael gave me throughout his career. I didn't decide when to hope, I just hoped that Michael would nail it.

I don't want to lose that. I can afford losing one title out of 7, five wins out of 91 or any accomplishment Michael did, but not the faith I have in Michael. I was sure when he decided to take Massa's place that he would be right on pace and carry F10 to the podium. Without even a slight doubt. I don't want to lose that feeling and unfortunately after today's session, the only thing that mattered to me that Michael could make me to lose that. Please. I still hugely believe in what he can do on track and wait for when his time would come. With all my arms wide open.

#665 F1Champion

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:26

Strange that the tyres didn't last more than 2 laps.

#666 Mandzipop

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:29

When was his last wet quali? Something makes me think Nico's was probably more recent. You still have to look at him as a half rookie. I was off work for only 7 weeks with a broken foot. It took me 2 months to get back into the swing of things, and I was the most experienced person on the department, and also the best (not bigging myself up at all :D ).

#667 99cent

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:31

When was his last wet quali? Something makes me think Nico's was probably more recent. You still have to look at him as a half rookie. I was off work for only 7 weeks with a broken foot. It took me 2 months to get back into the swing of things, and I was the most experienced person on the department, and also the best (not bigging myself up at all :D ).


Great example

#668 DaleCooper

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:44

That´s not the "old" Schumacher anymore: too nice in interviews, talks things up "oh yes my teammate was half a second quicker but who cares" wtf?
We´re already reaching the time where people feel sorry for him, after 3 races...
A second slower than Rosberg, who never showed anything promising under those conditions so far. That MUST really hurt him



The result was not representative, as could be seen throughout qualifying. But if people insist on focusing on the raw results, maybe they need to look where Hamilton/Button/Massa/Alonso are. And before anyone spews nonsense about the teams messing up, Mercedes did the same thing but Schumacher was faster at exactly the same time as all those guys using the same tyres. But they were too busy chucking it off the road or doing pirouettes. Real stars these are!


Cooper

#669 Kenaltgr

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 22:50

That´s not the "old" Schumacher anymore: too nice in interviews, talks things up "oh yes my teammate was half a second quicker but who cares" wtf?
We´re already reaching the time where people feel sorry for him, after 3 races...
A second slower than Rosberg, who never showed anything promising under those conditions so far. That MUST really hurt him


Lame excuses. This is the first time he's had to compete against a teammate on equal terms. Also the field is much higher class than anytime since 1994-2004. That is the reason why he's struggling.

Edited by Kenaltgr, 03 April 2010 - 22:50.


#670 inca_roads

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 23:04

It's a strange relationship between Michael and me, which obviously Schumacher would not give a damn. I've been watching the guy since his fights with Senna and that were the very reason why I supported him; his agile style, passion and sheer speed. Over the years, even during the infamous 2005 year, I've never lost any faith in this guy. I always believed that out of blue he would do a minor miracle and find the tenths he would need just as in 1998 Hungary, 2004 France and 2006 China. Even in 2006 Brazilian GP, I hoped that he'd somehow win the race and Alonso'd retire hence the championship. This is not about blind faith, it's just the instinct that Michael gave me throughout his career. I didn't decide when to hope, I just hoped that Michael would nail it.

I don't want to lose that. I can afford losing one title out of 7, five wins out of 91 or any accomplishment Michael did, but not the faith I have in Michael. I was sure when he decided to take Massa's place that he would be right on pace and carry F10 to the podium. Without even a slight doubt. I don't want to lose that feeling and unfortunately after today's session, the only thing that mattered to me that Michael could make me to lose that. Please. I still hugely believe in what he can do on track and wait for when his time would come. With all my arms wide open.


I've never been a fan during his previous stint in F1, but I think the criticism Schumacher is getting is way over the top. He's not doing a bad job, all things considered. And I get the impression things are coming together for him quickly - good results will follow very soon, I reckon.

Keep your faith in him.

Edited by inca_roads, 03 April 2010 - 23:04.


#671 Spinnekop

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 01:46

I first started watching F1 from '93 onwards and decided to support MS as he was the young 'underdog' driver at that stage. Between '94 and '04 he was by far the most competent driver on the grid.
It's painfull to watch him being outqualified and outperformed by NR. Nico's a decent driver but he's not a WDC standard driver to be honest. When MS was in his peak if it was a wet race or qualifying him being first would be a forgone conclusion.
I'm a Schumi fan but I reckon he doesn't have that drive to show everyone and prove he's the best anymore. He's already done it. He's got a family now kids, wife,etc. Having that in the back of your mind will hold you back.
Seems he joined Mercedes for fun(and cash) initially expecting them to be as good as Brawn Merc was.
What a downerhttp://forums.autosport.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

#672 Sakae

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 02:00

Race is not over yet, and regardless of its results, for some reason I am very calm about it, because in rare moments we get to see him on the track in view of lenses, I see glimpses of him that he was early in his career; he will be OK.

Edited by MiPe, 04 April 2010 - 02:03.


#673 kodandaram

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:04

He needs more time. He is dealing with a very different environment with heavy restrictions on ...almost everything ...and to add to it, he has not had the weather helping him. He is still finding his feet. He might be the "god of racing" ... but he still needs time. I say give him another 4-5 races before starting to judge him this year. He is still very rusty IMHO.

#674 Craven Morehead

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:12

Writing the guy off after a couple of events is very shortsighted. It is a long season, and Schumi's return can only be properly judged at the end.

#675 baddog

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:15

Am I the only one seeing things this way? He is fine in the car, and is driving in fact very well (evidenced by his speed in early Q2) but he seems to have trouble getting his head back around track position management and tyre/run planning.. lots of bad decisions, Just flat out wrong plan in Q3, also saw him dicing with other drivers on out laps when the next lap is all you are going to get.. The race brain seems to need some work basically.

#676 Fortymark

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:58

Im sure he´ll do better in the race now when it´s dry.
I even have money on him setting the fastest race lap.

#677 Diablobb81

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 08:23

AArrrrgh. One again a good race start. Stupid Merc.

#678 Wade

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 08:27

SMH.

............

#679 merschu

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 08:28

This is what autosport says was the problem!

Lap 10:Michael Schumacher is out of the race with a broken left rear suspension.

Lap 10: The German had a major moment through Turn 6 as the left rear wheel came askew. Schumacher has pulled off and is now behind the barrier.



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#680 Augurk

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 08:33

First failure of the season for MGP. Let's hear it with the rumours that ROS gets the better equipment!

Seriously, what a great start again, and what a waste of a potentially good result.

#681 eoin

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 08:34

This is what autosport says was the problem!


Wheel nut came off... :lol:

#682 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:44

about time schumacher experiences some car problems in his career.

#683 sephiroth

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:46

about time schumacher experiences some car problems in his career.


Because Suzuka 2006 never happened.

#684 Johnrambo

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:48

Because Suzuka 2006 never happened.


Relevant how? MS had something like 70(?!?) races without terminal mechanical problems at Ferrari in a row.

#685 Augurk

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:49

Because Suzuka 2006 never happened.

Or lets remember 1996.

#686 Massa_f1

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:55

How did it fail if it was a human error they have got to go. Schumacher has pace but he is just not getting the chance to show it. I dont think he is getting on well with the team as it is and this wont help.

#687 BRK

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:56

First reliability issue for Merc,very unlucky for MS.

No worries,though-on to the next race!

#688 baddog

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:59

Yeah shame, they were on for a likely 3-4 finish based on pace and what happened elsewhere in the race. But hey, these things happen, they and he are definitely on the up.

Edited by baddog, 04 April 2010 - 09:59.


#689 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:00

Because Suzuka 2006 never happened.

Or what about 2002, 2003, 2004. No other driver has been anywhere near as lucky with car reliability (and speed) as MS.

#690 merschu

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:11

Schumi's car to pit radio conversation after his car broke down! :| ):

http://www.vimeo.com/10666947

Edited by merschu, 04 April 2010 - 15:40.


#691 Sisplatin

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:15

Or what about 2002, 2003, 2004. No other driver has been anywhere near as lucky with car reliability (and speed) as MS.

so its Schumy fault that he had a reliable car? :cat:

is he the reason for Global warming aswell??
:lol:

Edited by Sisplatin, 04 April 2010 - 10:15.


#692 aditya-now

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:19

Schumacher was just on interview in RTL - very sympathetic and relaxed.
I am amazed about him at this point, the unpleasant traits in his character are
receding, at least now that he is not enjoying so much success.

Come Barcelona he might be back at the top end, but he also acknowledges Nico Rosberg and how fast he is.

All in all, I never thought I would post this one day, Michael comes across as genuinely likeable at this point.

#693 Galko877

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:29

Schumacher was just on interview in RTL - very sympathetic and relaxed.
I am amazed about him at this point, the unpleasant traits in his character are
receding, at least now that he is not enjoying so much success.

Come Barcelona he might be back at the top end, but he also acknowledges Nico Rosberg and how fast he is.

All in all, I never thought I would post this one day, Michael comes across as genuinely likeable at this point.



He has always been likable to me. Maybe a bit more tense in the heat of WDC fights but who isn't? But he was always ready to acknowledge others. It was often people and the media projecting their own ill feelings on him (putting an image on him that wasn't really him), rather than him having ill feelings towards others IMO.


#694 merschu

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:34


Posted Image

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#695 Massa_f1

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:35

He has always been likable to me. Maybe a bit more tense in the heat of WDC fights but who isn't? But he was always ready to acknowledge others. It was often people and the media projecting their own ill feelings on him (putting an image on him that wasn't really him), rather than him having ill feelings towards others IMO.



Exactly he always acknowledges others and can be relaxed and chilled anti MS people and some media just like to think oterwise.

#696 eoin

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:43

Schumacher was just on interview in RTL - very sympathetic and relaxed.
I am amazed about him at this point, the unpleasant traits in his character are
receding, at least now that he is not enjoying so much success.

Come Barcelona he might be back at the top end, but he also acknowledges Nico Rosberg and how fast he is.

All in all, I never thought I would post this one day, Michael comes across as genuinely likeable at this point.


IMO he sounded very deflated today. I think he is realizing that even if he does get back up to speed then he still has no chance of making an impact driving for his current team.

#697 Spa95

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:53

After my optimism yesterday I was disappointed by his pace today - because on average he lost 5-7 tenths to Rosberg each lap. So he tried to save his tyres? Well, Rosberg wasn't exactly ruining his and losing that much time wouldn't have made up for an extra pitstop anyway.

Edited by Spa95, 04 April 2010 - 10:54.


#698 Augurk

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 10:57

After my optimism yesterday I was disappointed by his pace today - because on average he lost 5-7 tenths to Rosberg each lap. So he tried to save his tyres? Well, Rosberg wasn't exactly ruining his and losing that much time wouldn't have made up for an extra pitstop anyway.

Rosberg was in a free slot on the track, Red Bulls taking off ahead of him. Schumacher was stuck behind Sutil.

#699 marchi-91

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 11:19

After my optimism yesterday I was disappointed by his pace today - because on average he lost 5-7 tenths to Rosberg each lap. So he tried to save his tyres? Well, Rosberg wasn't exactly ruining his and losing that much time wouldn't have made up for an extra pitstop anyway.



I'd like to know what race you were watching because for the 3 laps prior to his DNF he was as fast as Rosberg. People best not under-estimate the speed of Sutil because he was certainly keeping up there with everybody.

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#700 cheapracer

cheapracer
  • Member

  • 10,388 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 04 April 2010 - 11:27

so its Schumy fault that he had a reliable car? :cat:


:lol:


Laff all you want, it's fact. I have seen telemetry compared to his teammates of past and he is/was mechanically very smooth and easy on a car.

I'll try and find the comparison so you see what I mean.

He did well today, must have been dissapointing for him - doesn't help with track time either and thats a real problem.

I have to say that Rosberg drove very well, I'm sure that MS's presence has given him a mind set to do better and stay on top of things - good for him.