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#7351 aditya-now

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 10:37

If the 2011 car is strong, I don't expect Sutil to be replacing anyone in the Mercedes camp.


How will they know if the 2011 car is strong before signing or not signing Sutil?

Ah, I see. If the 2011 car turns out to be a fluke Michael will call it quits and the cockpit is vacant for Adrian to be taken.

Edited by aditya-now, 01 November 2010 - 10:38.


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#7352 ivand911

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:17

Michael usually finish his contracts ,so after 2012 MGP can do what they want. If, Michael finish next year 4th to 7th in WDC I expect that he will drive in 2012 too. I don't think Sutil is only one fighting for MGP seat after Michael is out.

Edited by ivand911, 01 November 2010 - 11:18.


#7353 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:35

You are right though, like Spa and Suzuka this is a favoured MS track which helps for him to advance the car on known ground.

you can also add barcelona & monaco

#7354 ivand911

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:45

Sutil: 'No truth' to Mercedes rumours
1 November 2010
http://www.gpupdate....rcedes-rumours/
Adrian Sutil has rubbished wild speculation that he could be drafted in by Mercedes to replace Michael Schumacher in 2011. The German, who has scored 47 points this season with Force India, added though that he has yet to make a decision on where he will go next year.

“No, there is no truth in that,” Sutil told the Mail Online. “Michael is going to stay there for another year at least, and I think he has a three-year contract, so that is how it is. Of course it would be great to drive for Mercedes in the future, but I think now is just too early, and they are just rumours.

“People expected him to be where he ended three years ago, but that’s not how F1 is. It has changed and it is never easy to come back after three years. It’s not a winning car at the moment.

"You can make a reference to his team-mate [Nico Rosberg]. But he’s close and is getting better, so I suppose you could say it’s probably not been a bad comeback.

“[As for myself] I’m not sure at the moment [what my plans are for 2011], but it should happen pretty soon. I just want to make sure I do the right thing.

#7355 corps

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 11:54

In Brazil I expect Michael to be strong as he has been for the last few races. He has always gone well there and clearly things have changed enormously since Monza.


He is still consistently 3-4 tenths behind his team mate in qualifying so what has changed?
In the races lot's of things happen and it's sometimes possible to cover up the speed deficit, but it's always there. Next year its possible but unlikely for him to find this missing chunk of speed and be even with Rosberg, but that is hardly some sort of success for one of the best drivers of all time. I hope he retires. He is no longer relevant in modern F1.

#7356 ivand911

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:22

He is still consistently 3-4 tenths behind his team mate in qualifying so what has changed?
In the races lot's of things happen and it's sometimes possible to cover up the speed deficit, but it's always there. Next year its possible but unlikely for him to find this missing chunk of speed and be even with Rosberg, but that is hardly some sort of success for one of the best drivers of all time. I hope he retires. He is no longer relevant in modern F1.

And who is relevant in modern F1? Your opinion. For many Michael fans he is very relevant, but thank you for your opinion(Sutil don't agree with you). And he is very relevant for F1 , because his fans like me will spend money to visit GP(Turkey and probably Spa in my case). Because of him of course. There was drivers which was not relevant to modern F1 in the last two years. But,they are still here.

Edited by ivand911, 01 November 2010 - 12:44.


#7357 aditya-now

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:58

And who is relevant in modern F1? Your opinion. For many Michael fans he is very relevant, but thank you for your opinion(Sutil don't agree with you). And he is very relevant for F1 , because his fans like me will spend money to visit GP(Turkey and probably Spa in my case). Because of him of course. There was drivers which was not relevant to modern F1 in the last two years. But,they are still here.


Who is relevant in modern F1? More relevant than Michael, that is?

Start with Alonso who defeated Michael already in 2005 and 2006 (and who seems to be specialising in winning championships when Michael is around ;) ), then Hamilton, Kubica and Vettel. You can throw in Nico Rosberg, of course, as he has the upper hand on Michael this year, but that would not take Michael's historical importance into account.

So I go with Alonso, Hamilton and then Michael Schumacher, all things considered.

#7358 ivand911

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 13:09

Who is relevant in modern F1? More relevant than Michael, that is?

Start with Alonso who defeated Michael already in 2005 and 2006 (and who seems to be specialising in winning championships when Michael is around ;) ), then Hamilton, Kubica and Vettel. You can throw in Nico Rosberg, of course, as he has the upper hand on Michael this year, but that would not take Michael's historical importance into account.

So I go with Alonso, Hamilton and then Michael Schumacher, all things considered.

I mean somebody who is not in F1 now? Because drivers you mentioned are in F1. corps like I understand thinks that there is people outside F1, who are more appropriate for F1. Nobody else, who is really interested of F1 can't be more suitable and useful for F1 than Michael.

Edited by ivand911, 01 November 2010 - 13:44.


#7359 arknor

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 14:35

He is still consistently 3-4 tenths behind his team mate in qualifying so what has changed?
In the races lot's of things happen and it's sometimes possible to cover up the speed deficit, but it's always there. Next year its possible but unlikely for him to find this missing chunk of speed and be even with Rosberg, but that is hardly some sort of success for one of the best drivers of all time. I hope he retires. He is no longer relevant in modern F1.

pfft alot of us watch live timings and understand what is going on during a race , nothing is hiding anything.

learn to read and understand live timings the race is no big mystery unless you would rather sit in an armchair and turn your brain off , let legard do the thinking for you instead ^_^

Edited by arknor, 01 November 2010 - 14:35.


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#7360 cheapracer

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 16:09

He is still consistently 3-4 tenths behind his team mate in qualifying so what has changed?

He is no longer relevant in modern F1.


His race performance actually, some of us watch that part of the weekend too.

Relevant? Tell that to the many drivers behind or the one immediately in front of him every race. Even treating him as an unknown rookie this year his recent batch of performances are enough to have changed a Team Managers possible earlier decision about him for next year's drive.




#7361 Yorkie

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 16:21

His race performance actually, some of us watch that part of the weekend too.

Relevant? Tell that to the many drivers behind or the one immediately in front of him every race. Even treating him as an unknown rookie this year his recent batch of performances are enough to have changed a Team Managers possible earlier decision about him for next year's drive.

He's had by and large the 4th fastest car and not really done anything out of the ordinary with it

#7362 corps

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 17:00

His race performance actually, some of us watch that part of the weekend too.

Relevant? Tell that to the many drivers behind or the one immediately in front of him every race. Even treating him as an unknown rookie this year his recent batch of performances are enough to have changed a Team Managers possible earlier decision about him for next year's drive.


What race?
Last race Rosberg was ahead before he was taken out. He was terrible in Singapore. I guess he looked ok in Suzuka, a track he used to be magic on he was still behind Rosberg.

#7363 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 17:01

How will they know if the 2011 car is strong before signing or not signing Sutil?

Ah, I see. If the 2011 car turns out to be a fluke Michael will call it quits and the cockpit is vacant for Adrian to be taken.


Yup.


If the 2011 car allows Schumacher to be more competitive relative to his team mate and the field, I think the 3 year contract will be seen out.

If not, Schumacher will call it quits and allow Sutil to take his seat (for 2012 or even mid way, who knows) on the basis that 'this team will never move beyond midfield'.

#7364 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 17:06

What race?
Last race Rosberg was ahead before he was taken out. He was terrible in Singapore. I guess he looked ok in Suzuka, a track he used to be magic on he was still behind Rosberg.


Was he?

I seem to recall that Schumacher was about 1.5 seconds behind Rosberg before Rosberg crashed. After Rosberg's departpure, wasn't Schumacher 1.5+ seconds faster in clear air and catching Lewis Hamilton?

Had the team not fixed the pitstops to put Rosberg ahead of Schumacher (yes, it did happen, watch again, all very calculated) and Rosberg not held Schumacher up, it's not inconcievable that Schumacher would have been very close to Hamilton by race end.

#7365 smitten

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 17:16

Had the team not fixed the pitstops to put Rosberg ahead of Schumacher (yes, it did happen, watch again, all very calculated) and Rosberg not held Schumacher up, it's not inconcievable that Schumacher would have been very close to Hamilton by race end.


What reason do you give for Nico getting the treatment that many feel was once reserved for Schumi?


#7366 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 17:20

What reason do you give for Nico getting the treatment that many feel was once reserved for Schumi?

He's ahead in the championship and has shown himself to be more likely to get podiums and wins. Isn't that the way it should be, and isn't that exactly why Schumacher deserved it himself in the past?

#7367 baddog

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 19:05

He is still consistently 3-4 tenths behind his team mate in qualifying so what has changed?
In the races lot's of things happen and it's sometimes possible to cover up the speed deficit, but it's always there. Next year its possible but unlikely for him to find this missing chunk of speed and be even with Rosberg, but that is hardly some sort of success for one of the best drivers of all time. I hope he retires. He is no longer relevant in modern F1.

So there is one session in a weekend now? You need to tell the F1 guys, they are still there on sunday for some reason, and those fools are awarding points for the wrong session!

If you dont think Michael has changed his performance in recent races then you are not watching very closely, or are watching with your mind closed. While he has still got a bugbear in qualifying, over the weekend he is a transformed driver.

#7368 Yorkie

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 20:12

So there is one session in a weekend now? You need to tell the F1 guys, they are still there on sunday for some reason, and those fools are awarding points for the wrong session!

If you dont think Michael has changed his performance in recent races then you are not watching very closely, or are watching with your mind closed. While he has still got a bugbear in qualifying, over the weekend he is a transformed driver.

I still dont see him punching above the cars weight

#7369 Lotusseven

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 22:21

Good question, why would anyone meet Willi Webber now with all the things that have come out into the open, his problems with the law - although my opinon of Schumacher is not to highest, I could never figure out why an intelligent person like Schumacher would be so deeply befriended with someone of the calibre of Willi Webber.

Apart from that, the "Deutsche Vermögenswaltung" which is nothing short of a financial "club" to say it in the mildest terms (you could speak to some of their agents which are indebted for life with them and try what they can to get out of it, but to no avail) is another questionable association of Michael Schumacher. Yes, they pay him the money, but it´s a little bit like Tom Cruise...

So thinking about Webber and Deutsche Vermögensverwaltung I have to say that all other aspects of the Schumacher phenomenon are very positive. In German we have a saying: "Sage mir mit wem du umgehst und ich sage dir wer du bist".



Gosh!...I have nothing against W.Webber or Shumi if you thought so ?


#7370 black magic

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 22:24

perhaps not but his teammate whilst having a lot more points is still only 1 place ahead in the chapionship.

kinda suggests it is more a car than driver problem

#7371 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:18

I still dont see him punching above the cars weight


Who is really when you think about it? Everybody is where they are supposed to be barring mistakes and exceptional track circumstances.

The only one that hasn't performed relative to his car's performance is Felipe Massa and perhaps Alonso has punched above the car's performance - although some elements of luck were involved his his recent form.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 02 November 2010 - 09:29.


#7372 Muz Bee

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:30

So there is one session in a weekend now? You need to tell the F1 guys, they are still there on sunday for some reason, and those fools are awarding points for the wrong session!

If you dont think Michael has changed his performance in recent races then you are not watching very closely, or are watching with your mind closed. While he has still got a bugbear in qualifying, over the weekend he is a transformed driver.

I have been watching closely and I would say that Michael has better got to grips in race conditions with the car. To say he is a transformed driver however.... :confused:
He is a carthorse in qualifying much of the time - 3 + tenths week after week at this level isn't good enough. If you look at the match ups of Webber and Vettel (and Webber gets a lot of heat among the unwashed masses) for example, the two are often hundredths apart. MS is so far off the pace for such an experienced and previously brilliant driver you have to question why he is on this comeback still. However Michael could be the best news for Rosberg in 2011 if he can inspire a direction and strength in the team currently missing.

#7373 cheapracer

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 13:11

He's ahead in the championship and has shown himself to be more likely to get podiums and wins. Isn't that the way it should be, and isn't that exactly why Schumacher deserved it himself in the past?


And from the far corner Buttoneer shoots and - YES GOAAAAAAL!!!!!


#7374 Number62

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 13:22

Had the team not fixed the pitstops to put Rosberg ahead of Schumacher (yes, it did happen, watch again, all very calculated) and Rosberg not held Schumacher up, it's not inconcievable that Schumacher would have been very close to Hamilton by race end.


Just have. There's no way there was any conspiracy to get Rosberg ahead. That was a fair fight and Rosberg was ahead until the wheels fell off.

It's plain to see and hear over the radio.

#7375 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 13:44

Just have. There's no way there was any conspiracy to get Rosberg ahead. That was a fair fight and Rosberg was ahead until the wheels fell off.

It's plain to see and hear over the radio.



Rosberg pits under the safety car and goes onto the hard tyres and falls back behind some slower cars.

Schumacher is consistently lapping faster (around 0.5 seconds or so) than Rosberg while they are holding their relative positions and his tyres aren't going off or suffering from graining. The gap is growing lap by lap. Schumacher is then brought in and Rosberg just gets ahead of him at the pit stops.

Now either the team strategists are very stupid or Schumacher's position was engineered to be brought in behind Rosberg at the pitstops. Schumacher was clearly the faster man in race pace. When Rosberg crashed out, Schumacher began lapping 1.5 seconds a lap faster. Basically, Rosberg held him up.


There is no 'conspiracy'. Just a logical deduction of what happened.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 02 November 2010 - 13:46.


#7376 ivand911

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 14:08

http://www.championa...icle-69926.html

- Michael, what do you expect from the remaining two races of the 2010 season?
- Our main goal - maximize the potential of the machine. And we as a team to grow together. Do not forget that we remain a young team and, moreover, is relatively small. So you need to use the infrastructure the most effective way, and we concentrate on this and develop from race to race.

If you talk about me, then I got more and more involved in various small parts. Yes, I have a great experience but I was away for three years and much has changed in that time. Over time, I find and compare all the more to get the whole picture.

- But if you take into account your record and experience, as well as what you came to the team champion, how surprising was that during the season form the team was falling, not growing?
- I think everybody, including me, expected the team will add. Especially if you remember where the team was a year ago, and bear in mind that acceded to the Mercedes and me. But I have not had for several years, "Mercedes" and "Brown" just cooperate, and thus has many components, over which we work. Do not forget that the fight for the title last season influenced the preparation for this championship, which we see.

- How do you assess the chances of the five contenders for the title?
- Better to be ahead than behind, ahead only when the two races. But, of course, has not been decided.

- What will be the deciding factor? Can I say that by year's end the human factor becomes more important?
- For me, the determining factor - the development of the machine. But the pilot also affects, of course.

- The fact that you switched to prepare for 2011, somehow lowered the pressure on you and the team?
- I think the pressure was pretty high at the beginning of the season. I do not think that since everything has changed a lot, because even during the winter tests there were reasons not to be too optimistic. If you recall my words, then quite quickly I stopped talking about the fight for the championship. Nico was configured somewhat more optimistic, but I had an opinion. You are holding a vehicle, and you know its capabilities. So I wanted to stop a project to develop the current car and focus on the future to have a slight advantage over rivals.

- You said before the Japanese Grand Prix that "Suzuka" in the "Mercedes" will be a problem, but in fact you get the very strong performance on a dry track for the whole year. Does this mean that you still do not know much about the potential of the machine?
- I think we have optimized settings. In the course of the season we had a lot of updates, but they have not always matched our expectations and gave the benefit. I think that now we wring from them the maximum. This was because the "Suzuka" in Korea.

- On you impressed teammate?
- "Impressed" - this is an incorrect statement, because I think that Niko has declared itself before joining Mercedes, and he continued to argue that a good stable driver. He proved it on the "Suzuka", when we fought. But with a partner you can not go on some sort of limit. With all the other pilot may be different on both sides.

- Do you think you can climb onto the podium this year?
- We need a little luck, to fight for the podium. We are behind Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren, while in the case do not take any special factors such as rain. Podium for the Mercedes would be a very good result, our maximum, to which we can hope for. But for me personally it wouldn't mean too much because I have other tasks.

- But you must be bored of champagne ...
- I'm here to succeed with the team, it is our goal. Just climb on the podium - it's not too important.

#7377 ivand911

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 14:16

Just have. There's no way there was any conspiracy to get Rosberg ahead. That was a fair fight and Rosberg was ahead until the wheels fell off.

It's plain to see and hear over the radio.

Team chief strategist admit they made mistake to put Michael behind Nico after the pit stop. So this was their plan. No fair fight, only team plan nothing less. Everyone see what happen there, websites see it too and ask questions. But, this was discussed a lot ,go back and read. Fair fight in the team mean if both drivers have their own strategy , in MGP team drivers have one strategy with roles in it. Check MGP thread for second part of The art of Strategy.

Edited by ivand911, 02 November 2010 - 14:18.


#7378 smitten

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 15:45

Schumacher is consistently lapping faster (around 0.5 seconds or so) than Rosberg while they are holding their relative positions and his tyres aren't going off or suffering from graining. The gap is growing lap by lap. Schumacher is then brought in and Rosberg just gets ahead of him at the pit stops.


Eh? If I read that right, then your logic is a little flawed.

1. Rosberg is ahead of Schumacher on the road
2. Rosberg pits and falls behind Schumacher on the road
3. Schumacher is lapping quicker than Rosberg
4. Schumacher pits and comes out behind Rosberg

My analysis of that is that Schumacher didn't make up enough time to get out in front of Rosberg, not that the team 'engineered' it. Was Schumacher held in the box to make this happen, because otherwise it seem to me that it was up to him to deliver fast laps on track to get ahead.

#7379 Diablobb81

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 15:47

My analysis of that is that Schumacher didn't make up enough time to get out in front of Rosberg, not that the team 'engineered' it. Was Schumacher held in the box to make this happen, because otherwise it seem to me that it was up to him to deliver fast laps on track to get ahead.



He was called in too early. Even Merc admitted it (since it was obvious). What is there to discuss?

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#7380 Number62

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 15:51

Team chief strategist admit they made mistake to put Michael behind Nico after the pit stop. So this was their plan. No fair fight, only team plan nothing less. Everyone see what happen there, websites see it too and ask questions. But, this was discussed a lot ,go back and read. Fair fight in the team mean if both drivers have their own strategy , in MGP team drivers have one strategy with roles in it. Check MGP thread for second part of The art of Strategy.


Mistake or Plan, it can't be both.

I've not seen any evidence that MGP are favouring ROS. He may have made better of his pit strategies but to suggest Ross Brawn or MGP are deliberately putting him ahead of MSC is disingenuous.

The way MSC was allowed to hassle ROS after the pit and the instruction that he is free to attack and ROS won't do anything silly, is directly contradictory of a contrived plan to favour ROS. Brundle called it too.

What is your evidence that MGP have one strategy with roles?



#7381 arknor

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 15:52

Eh? If I read that right, then your logic is a little flawed.

1. Rosberg is ahead of Schumacher on the road
2. Rosberg pits and falls behind Schumacher on the road
3. Schumacher is lapping quicker than Rosberg
4. Schumacher pits and comes out behind Rosberg

My analysis of that is that Schumacher didn't make up enough time to get out in front of Rosberg, not that the team 'engineered' it. Was Schumacher held in the box to make this happen, because otherwise it seem to me that it was up to him to deliver fast laps on track to get ahead.

team admitted to it already you can debate all you like

#7382 smitten

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 16:07

team admitted to it already you can debate all you like


The team admitted they did it deliberately? - mucho respect to MGP for honesty.


#7383 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 16:32

would'nt it be an ideal scenario if in these last 2 gps that Schumacher PREVENTS Alonso the title ?

Imagine this , Webber (or) Vettel are in front , Alonso needs to be in 3rd or 4th to win the title (supposedly) but Schumacher makes his way in front Fernando Alonso ....

Martin brundle : '' Alonso has to pass Schumacher if he wants to win this year's championship ....If only he can get past that Mercedes , the 2010 title is his .... Last lap here in Abu Dabi and 2010 title decider, Schumacher defending the line brilliantly out of the exit ,oh Alonso tries the inside but Schumacher denies him !! Great Stuff ... Wow !! Here's Mark Webber crossing the line and wins but aint over yet - Alonso has to pass Michael Schumacher if he wants his 3rd title .... Last 3 corners are coming up - Schumacher feels the pressure from Fernando but he is'nt making it easy for the Spaniard .... Last corner - Schumacher and Alonso fighting it hard --- ooohh here's Michael Schumacher crossing the line and finishes 4th if front .... Alonso is NOT the 2010 champion .... ''


Now that would be a DREAM scenario to end the 2010 season .... :up:

Maybe we will all get lucky and that CAN happen .... Crossing my fingers :cool:

Edited by 7timesbetterthantherest, 02 November 2010 - 16:36.


#7384 ivand911

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 16:47

Eh? If I read that right, then your logic is a little flawed.

1. Rosberg is ahead of Schumacher on the road
2. Rosberg pits and falls behind Schumacher on the road
3. Schumacher is lapping quicker than Rosberg
4. Schumacher pits and comes out behind Rosberg

My analysis of that is that Schumacher didn't make up enough time to get out in front of Rosberg, not that the team 'engineered' it. Was Schumacher held in the box to make this happen, because otherwise it seem to me that it was up to him to deliver fast laps on track to get ahead.

Your logic is flawed, Nico use SC for his pitstop, so he didn't lose time to Michael. If he pit without SC , Michael would pass him very easy at his pitstop. Point 1. is not correct , it was Michael ahead of Nico(he jump Nico at the start, again). Did you watch the race at all?

Edited by ivand911, 02 November 2010 - 17:02.


#7385 flyer121

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 16:53

would'nt it be an ideal scenario if in these last 2 gps that Schumacher PREVENTS Alonso the title ?

Imagine this , Webber (or) Vettel are in front , Alonso needs to be in 3rd or 4th to win the title (supposedly) but Schumacher makes his way in front Fernando Alonso ....

~~~~
~~~~

Now that would be a DREAM scenario to end the 2010 season .... :up:

Maybe we will all get lucky and that CAN happen .... Crossing my fingers :cool:


It would almost be as if MS won the title himself :);)

#7386 Smile17

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 17:08

would'nt it be an ideal scenario if in these last 2 gps that Schumacher PREVENTS Alonso the title ?

Imagine this , Webber (or) Vettel are in front , Alonso needs to be in 3rd or 4th to win the title (supposedly) but Schumacher makes his way in front Fernando Alonso ....

Martin brundle : '' Alonso has to pass Schumacher if he wants to win this year's championship ....If only he can get past that Mercedes , the 2010 title is his .... Last lap here in Abu Dabi and 2010 title decider, Schumacher defending the line brilliantly out of the exit ,oh Alonso tries the inside but Schumacher denies him !! Great Stuff ... Wow !! Here's Mark Webber crossing the line and wins but aint over yet - Alonso has to pass Michael Schumacher if he wants his 3rd title .... Last 3 corners are coming up - Schumacher feels the pressure from Fernando but he is'nt making it easy for the Spaniard .... Last corner - Schumacher and Alonso fighting it hard --- ooohh and there is Alonso coming around the outside, brillant stuff. What an overtake to finish it... Alonso is the the 2010 champion! Mark Webber holds his head..


Now that would be a DREAM scenario to end the 2010 season .... :up:


I will fix it for you. Mercedes and Schumacher can only dream of being close to Alonso in the race, unless Alonso makes a mistake or gets a grid penalty.

But do you think Schumacher can fight for the title next year? (if he stays ofcourse) We can expect a strong Mercedes next year, they have begon developing next years car a long time ago, one would say.





#7387 ivand911

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 17:15

Mistake or Plan, it can't be both.

I've not seen any evidence that MGP are favouring ROS. He may have made better of his pit strategies but to suggest Ross Brawn or MGP are deliberately putting him ahead of MSC is disingenuous.

The way MSC was allowed to hassle ROS after the pit and the instruction that he is free to attack and ROS won't do anything silly, is directly contradictory of a contrived plan to favour ROS. Brundle called it too.

What is your evidence that MGP have one strategy with roles?

Did you read The art of Strategy(in MGP thread) from MGP team strategist. He is doing team strategy alone. Tell me now how one man will make competitive strategy for the both drivers(they to fight each other)? In Japan Nico lose places and team quickly find way to help him, at Michael cost. They were in similar position in Singapore, but did they use first SC to pit Michael to improve his strategy(like Webber did)? No ,they didn't, because this way he can jump Nico which was not the plan. Guys if you don't see it Mercedes board wanted 6th(7th) place in WDC for Nico. To say, we beat one Ferrari or Kubica. This is the plan for 7th in the next two races. You will see the proof there again. In Germany Nico jump Michael again in the pit, it is strange because they were only ones who change the places in top 10. And they are team mates. Strange? Nico did 10 laps more only with this purpose. Michael said that plan was to have longer first stint , but after he jump Nico at the start they change his strategy for worst.


#7388 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 17:18

The team admitted they did it deliberately? - mucho respect to MGP for honesty.


The team admitted to an 'error', yes. Not the first 'error' we've since with Schumacher and strategies this season though.

#7389 olliek88

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 17:32

OK, so this threads pretty much one big argument, wish people would chillax a little. :p :smoking:

#7390 merschu

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 17:55

Michael Schumacher might have a new race engineer. Autosport magazine F1 Editor Edd Straw tweeted this:

@eddstrawF1:For anyone wanting to know who Michael Schumacher's new race engineer next year is, please consult page 13 of the current AUTOSPORT mag

#7391 Number62

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 18:02

Did you read The art of Strategy(in MGP thread) from MGP team strategist. He is doing team strategy alone. Tell me now how one man will make competitive strategy for the both drivers(they to fight each other)? In Japan Nico lose places and team quickly find way to help him, at Michael cost. They were in similar position in Singapore, but did they use first SC to pit Michael to improve his strategy(like Webber did)? No ,they didn't, because this way he can jump Nico which was not the plan. Guys if you don't see it Mercedes board wanted 6th(7th) place in WDC for Nico. To say, we beat one Ferrari or Kubica. This is the plan for 7th in the next two races. You will see the proof there again. In Germany Nico jump Michael again in the pit, it is strange because they were only ones who change the places in top 10. And they are team mates. Strange? Nico did 10 laps more only with this purpose. Michael said that plan was to have longer first stint , but after he jump Nico at the start they change his strategy for worst.


OK I've read it.

It doesn't say he is doing team strategy alone.

It doesn't say one man is making strategies for both drivers.

It doesn't say anything about plans to jump Nico ahead of Michael.

It doesn't say anything about plans for Nico to finish 7th.

There is no evidence MGP is favouring Nico.



#7392 ivand911

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 18:21

OK I've read it.

It doesn't say he is doing team strategy alone.

It doesn't say one man is making strategies for both drivers.

It doesn't say anything about plans to jump Nico ahead of Michael.

It doesn't say anything about plans for Nico to finish 7th.

There is no evidence MGP is favouring Nico.

http://www.f1fanatic...ont-of-rosberg/
The art of Strategy is only about how team operate. Did you see him speaking about people who make different strategy for drivers? I didn't see. But he say:"Ross of course who is very level headed and a good man to talk to during a race, and finally Shov and Jock (our race engineers) who feedback the information coming from the drivers very quickly and react to the decisions I make". About plans Nico to get 7th in next races I said it. They will do everything to take 7th from Kubica.
The same website was wondering: http://www.f1fanatic...-prix-analysis/

Edited by ivand911, 02 November 2010 - 18:29.


#7393 salamin

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 18:26

It would almost be as if MS won the title himself :);)

haha .. so true :up:

#7394 Number62

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 18:43

http://www.f1fanatic...ont-of-rosberg/
The art of Strategy is only about how team operate. Did you see him speaking about people who make different strategy for drivers? I didn't see. But he say:"Ross of course who is very level headed and a good man to talk to during a race, and finally Shov and Jock (our race engineers) who feedback the information coming from the drivers very quickly and react to the decisions I make". About plans Nico to get 7th in next races I said it. They will do everything to take 7th from Kubica.
The same website was wondering: http://www.f1fanatic...-prix-analysis/


Exactly, so there are several people involved in the strategy JUST during the race, I'd imagine dozens behind the scenes.

I'm sure Nico and MGP would love to overtake KUB but there's no evidence they have been favouring ROS up to now.

That F1fanatic article suggests they made a mistake which actually disproves any ROS favouritism rather than confirming it.

#7395 ivand911

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 18:49

Exactly, so there are several people involved in the strategy JUST during the race, I'd imagine dozens behind the scenes.

I'm sure Nico and MGP would love to overtake KUB but there's no evidence they have been favouring ROS up to now.

That F1fanatic article suggests they made a mistake which actually disproves any ROS favouritism rather than confirming it.

They only suggest this:"Then there are more cynical explanations. Rosberg went into the race six points behind Felipe Massa in the drivers’ standings and would have passed him had he finished in the sixth place he held before his wheel failed. How much do Mercedes want to get one of their cars ahead of a Ferrari in the drivers’ championship?"


#7396 Number62

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:02

They only suggest this:"Then there are more cynical explanations. Rosberg went into the race six points behind Felipe Massa in the drivers’ standings and would have passed him had he finished in the sixth place he held before his wheel failed. How much do Mercedes want to get one of their cars ahead of a Ferrari in the drivers’ championship?"


I can't see that quote so don't have the context but from the small snippet here they're saying the conspiracy theory is the more cycnical explanation, in other words, they made a mistake is the far more likely explanation.

Look, if you want to believe it please do, I can't PROVE that its not happening. But the evidence overwhelmingly is that there has been no favouritism toward nico or team orders in his favour.

This should probably be in the MGP thread, should it?

#7397 DarthRonzo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:16

Michael Schumacher might have a new race engineer. Autosport magazine F1 Editor Edd Straw tweeted this:

@eddstrawF1:For anyone wanting to know who Michael Schumacher's new race engineer next year is, please consult page 13 of the current AUTOSPORT mag

Does Schumacher, the Oracle of Auto Racing and Race Strategy Master Tactician of all times and all dimensions, the one and only, uber alles, needs a racing engineer ? :eek:

#7398 carbonfibre

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:26

Does Schumacher, the Oracle of Auto Racing and Race Strategy Master Tactician of all times and all dimensions, the one and only, uber alles, needs a racing engineer ? :eek:

He needs a more intelligent one, one that is on the same great level as him, the current one doesn't work.;)

#7399 Johnrambo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:50

Still the fact is that even this Transformers Schumacher gets beaten by his journeyman teammate.

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#7400 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 21:47

Eh? If I read that right, then your logic is a little flawed.

1. Rosberg is ahead of Schumacher on the road
2. Rosberg pits and falls behind Schumacher on the road
3. Schumacher is lapping quicker than Rosberg
4. Schumacher pits and comes out behind Rosberg

My analysis of that is that Schumacher didn't make up enough time to get out in front of Rosberg, not that the team 'engineered' it. Was Schumacher held in the box to make this happen, because otherwise it seem to me that it was up to him to deliver fast laps on track to get ahead.


Ok, why was Schumacher pitted? His tyres hadn't gone off. He wasn't losing time. He was still lapping faster than Rosberg. There is no logical reason why Schumacher should have pitted when he did.

Even the team admitted to ballsing it up.

The faster driver ended up being stuck behind the slower driver for 23 laps. When the slower driver crashed out, the faster driver immediately began lapping 1.5 seconds faster.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 02 November 2010 - 21:48.