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#7401 ivand911

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 21:50

I can't see that quote so don't have the context but from the small snippet here they're saying the conspiracy theory is the more cycnical explanation, in other words, they made a mistake is the far more likely explanation.

Look, if you want to believe it please do, I can't PROVE that its not happening. But the evidence overwhelmingly is that there has been no favouritism toward nico or team orders in his favour.

This should probably be in the MGP thread, should it?

It is end of this article: http://www.f1fanatic...-prix-analysis/
Before lap chart. I don't see context here it is just ending. I don't say Michael don't know what is going on. I am sure he could gladly help the team. And if they want Nico maximum forward in WDC(which is very normal) I don't have problem to believe it, and that they can do something about it. I didn't see any evidence that they tried to improve Michael results, where about Nico it is opposite. If this website want explanation from MGP about strategy, then they have something in mind. Or they do it because they are Michael fans? Every one can see that strategy was stupid in Japan. How they put fastest car behind slower, where with only 1-2 laps Michael could pass Nico clean in the pit? Team explanation is far from reality, for what they use their computers? When they make 100000 scenarios?

Edited by ivand911, 02 November 2010 - 21:50.


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#7402 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 22:10

Eh? If I read that right, then your logic is a little flawed.

1. Rosberg is ahead of Schumacher on the road
2. Rosberg pits and falls behind Schumacher on the road

when 2 happened 1 was not valid anymore ;)

#7403 aditya-now

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:28

Without speaking of anyone in particular (including myself), the tendency in this thread got proven again:

When Michael has an abysmal showing on the track, abysmal posts in great quantity follow.

When Michael has an average showing on the track (like in Suzuka and Korea), average posts in moderate quantities follow.

(When Michael has great results on the track, a great number of both great and abysmal posts follow - we didn't have that category yet in 2010).

For some of the younger guys here on the BB it seems that Michael's showing in Suzuka and Korea was great, but, please excuse me, we are speaking about a man who won 91 GPs and 7 WDCs.
So I am still waiting for Michael to resume his great performances, other than that we will have to suffice with some average or controversial post here on the BB.

#7404 ivand911

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:40

Without speaking of anyone in particular (including myself), the tendency in this thread got proven again:

When Michael has an abysmal showing on the track, abysmal posts in great quantity follow.

When Michael has an average showing on the track (like in Suzuka and Korea), average posts in moderate quantities follow.

(When Michael has great results on the track, a great number of both great and abysmal posts follow - we didn't have that category yet in 2010).

For some of the younger guys here on the BB it seems that Michael's showing in Suzuka and Korea was great, but, please excuse me, we are speaking about a man who won 91 GPs and 7 WDCs.
So I am still waiting for Michael to resume his great performances, other than that we will have to suffice with some average or controversial post here on the BB.

It is not great year for Michael. But, for me it is OK year, I am personally happy that Michael is back in F1 again. What more to ask , I have good memories from this year, will have good ones next year for sure. As I said for me Michael on the track is much better that him on Ferrari stand. F1 is so much interesting for me this year. And I didn't even notice who is the winner some times. And it is not like Michael is only responsible for not becoming world champion again this year. I am even happy about this 2-3 threads in this forum about him.
It is fun. :wave:


#7405 aditya-now

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:43

It is not great year for Michael. But, for me it is OK year, I am personally happy that Michael is back in F1 again. What more to ask , I have good memories from this year, will have good ones next year for sure. As I said for me Michael on the track is much better that him on Ferrari stand. F1 is so much interesting for me this year. And I didn't even notice who is the winner some times. And it is not like Michael is only responsible for not becoming world champion again this year. I am even happy about this 2-3 threads in this forum about him.
It is fun. :wave:


I am happy that you have fun, Ivan! And the fun will be still greater if and when Michael starts to win again in 2011! (for both friend and foe :smoking: )

This Saturday I am flying to Sofia, Sunday Sofia-Plovdiv, Monday/Tuesday Varna, Wednesday Sofia - yoohoo, I will be in your country again!


#7406 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:46

Without speaking of anyone in particular (including myself), the tendency in this thread got proven again:

When Michael has an abysmal showing on the track, abysmal posts in great quantity follow.

When Michael has an average showing on the track (like in Suzuka and Korea), average posts in moderate quantities follow.

(When Michael has great results on the track, a great number of both great and abysmal posts follow - we didn't have that category yet in 2010).

For some of the younger guys here on the BB it seems that Michael's showing in Suzuka and Korea was great, but, please excuse me, we are speaking about a man who won 91 GPs and 7 WDCs.
So I am still waiting for Michael to resume his great performances, other than that we will have to suffice with some average or controversial post here on the BB.


Aditya, I agree; a driver of Schumacher's calibre shouldn't be driving around for 4th position. Infact, I don't thnk Schumacher himself takes any great pleasure for himself for it either.

Still however, it is a marked improvement from some earlier showings this year where people wanted him fired and even jailed (for attempted murder :lol:) for some poor performances. He's also scored twice in a row now, a 'best of the rest' position after the WDC challengers.

The progression is what I am happy about, rather than the actual 4th place itself. We know the car isn't good enough, we know Schumacher has lost the ultimate speed (age, testing, circumstances, being rusty or whatever the reason may be) but at least he isn't embarrasing himself anymore. He deserves his place in F1 but I fear it will always be a losing battle; a man who achieved so much is expected to achieve so much again, not picking up the odd point here and there.

Still, as long as the trend continues, I'm happy.

#7407 Raziel

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 14:46

Schumacher to have new race engineer in 2011

Mark Slade! He worked with famous Finns Heikki Kovalainen, Kimi Raikkonen and Mika Hakkinen! Holy sh%t! :smoking:

#7408 Urawa

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 17:05

Good choice I think as Dyer is/was not available(?)

#7409 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 23:24

Dyer is commited to Ferrari for the long term.

#7410 cheapracer

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 09:34

Aditya, I agree; a driver of Schumacher's calibre shouldn't be driving around for 4th position. Infact, I don't thnk Schumacher himself takes any great pleasure for himself for it either.


The question is is the Benz capable of better than 4th in those races, MS (or Rosberg) didn't look better than 4th for those races and not through their driving.

#7411 DanardiF1

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 09:57

The question is is the Benz capable of better than 4th in those races, MS (or Rosberg) didn't look better than 4th for those races and not through their driving.


I don't think so... Michael has driven superbly the last two races... his only 'error' was to not be more aggressive on Rosberg in Japan before he lost the edge on his tyres... he might've got close to the ailing Hamilton if not for that...

#7412 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 10:13

I don't think so... Michael has driven superbly the last two races... his only 'error' was to not be more aggressive on Rosberg in Japan before he lost the edge on his tyres... he might've got close to the ailing Hamilton if not for that...


Indeed, Hamilton was some 20+ seconds up the road from Schumacher in Suzuka. I'd wager a guess that that is probably the amount of time he lost behind Nico.

#7413 DanardiF1

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 10:25

Indeed, Hamilton was some 20+ seconds up the road from Schumacher in Suzuka. I'd wager a guess that that is probably the amount of time he lost behind Nico.


It'd be close... I expected Michael to come good at one of the 'classic' circuits this year... Spa and Monza weren't great but I hoped to see a good performance from him at one of the better circuits on the calendar... the ones where the driver can really make a difference.

#7414 aditya-now

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 11:06

It'd be close... I expected Michael to come good at one of the 'classic' circuits this year... Spa and Monza weren't great but I hoped to see a good performance from him at one of the better circuits on the calendar... the ones where the driver can really make a difference.


Let´s not forget that Michael´s last real star performance came exactly on that circuit: Interlagos, 2006.

#7415 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 16:53

http://www.formula1....0/10/11393.html

Q: What was your worst-ever buy?
MS: That changes with every fashion change.

Q: What was the most embarrassing mistake you have made?
MS: Choose one.

Some welcome humility from Michael :)

#7416 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 17:37

Let´s not forget that Michael´s last real star performance came exactly on that circuit: Interlagos, 2006.


I expect Schumacher to put in another great performance in Brazil too.

Abu Dhabi I'm not too sure about.

#7417 ivand911

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:11

http://i11.fastpic.r...59a4b9ed082.jpg
http://i11.fastpic.r...ba1782d26d1.jpg
http://i11.fastpic.r...835e0bd88f8.jpg
http://img175.images...us/i/bra19.jpg/
http://img573.images...us/i/bra20.jpg/
http://img253.images...us/i/bra21.jpg/
http://img8.imageshack.us/i/bra18.jpg/
http://img207.images...us/i/bra22.jpg/
http://img838.images...us/i/bra24.jpg/
http://img18.imagesh...us/i/bra25.jpg/

Edited by ivand911, 05 November 2010 - 09:15.


#7418 salamin

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:27

nice, thanks

#7419 Hacklerf

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:29

Q: When was the last time you were really furious?
MS: Really, really furious? In Spa, 1998 [when he crashed into the rear of David Coulthard’s McLaren while leading a very wet Belgian Grand Prix. Coulthard was a lap down and Schumacher blamed the Scot for the incident.]



hahhaha

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#7420 salamin

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:38

btw, with the reshuffling next year, what position is Haug going to have inside the team?
I hope he's getting brawns place as team principal, since he seems more supportive of MS than brawn.

#7421 cheapracer

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 13:24

Schumacher to have new race engineer in 2011

Mark Slade! He worked with famous Finns Heikki Kovalainen, Kimi Raikkonen and Mika Hakkinen! Holy sh%t! :smoking:


Today

MS radio: "rear tyres overheating and locking under braking".

MS engineer Shove: "cool them down then"

I can't imagine why MS would want a new engineer ......


#7422 cheapracer

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 13:27

btw, with the reshuffling next year, what position is Haug going to have inside the team?
I hope he's getting brawns place as team principal, since he seems more supportive of MS than brawn.


It's more likely they figured they need Brawn's brains at the office to keep the team going with the right funds, I believe the Benz Workers Union(?) isn't exactly happy about the team being in existence when theres other major cutbacks at the factory.

Edited by cheapracer, 05 November 2010 - 13:28.


#7423 kar

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 13:38

Today

MS radio: "rear tyres overheating and locking under braking".

MS engineer Shove: "cool them down then"

I can't imagine why MS would want a new engineer ......


God are you serious?!

Schumacher should bin him right now then. That's unacceptable if it was said in anything other than humour.

#7424 rad787

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 13:52

I have always entertained the idea that Shovlin was a big part of why Schumacher was not able to extract the most out of the current car. The minute I heard he was gonna be his engineer, I said "errrr, wrong decision". And to think he had a negative history about Schumi...

#7425 cheapracer

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 13:55

God are you serious?!

Schumacher should bin him right now then. That's unacceptable if it was said in anything other than humour.


It's quite possible it was tongue in cheek but 100% was aired live in FP1.

Not knowing the true relationship between them who knows, maybe humour, maybe a bit of spite from knowing he is being replaced - lets hope for all things nice that it was humour though :)

With these tyre troubles it was nice to see MS only a 1/10 behind Rosberg for FP1 not that FP1 times always mean a great deal.

http://en.espnf1.com...story/4678.html

Interesting, Shovlin has been with BAR/Honda since 1998, not exactly what I would want on my resume and the 2009 Champs to Brawn with Button under his wing stand out for 2 things to me, obviously the DDD that put them ahead (not Chovlin's doing) and then their steady progress back to the field through the year with tyre troubles (quite possibly Shovlin's doing) so maybe, and it's just a maybe, MS knows he ain't the right guy for the job.

If in 2011 MS starts forges forward and Rosberg goes back then maybe theres a little "Shov'in" going on in the background - we will wait and see.

Just a possible scenerio folks to keep things interesting.

Edited by cheapracer, 05 November 2010 - 14:05.


#7426 kar

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 13:55

Especially for a driver like Schumacher who is excessively verbose while driving. He needs someone who reacts intelligently to what he is saying.

#7427 Spa95

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 14:08

Today

MS radio: "rear tyres overheating and locking under braking".

MS engineer Shove: "cool them down then"

I can't imagine why MS would want a new engineer ......

You took some great liberty in quoting the two there. The conversation went nothing like that. :rolleyes:

#7428 Hacklerf

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 14:30

what did the convo go like?

#7429 cheapracer

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 14:37

You took some great liberty in quoting the two there. The conversation went nothing like that. :rolleyes:


I admit my reception over the net was pretty shaky but thats what I believe I heard and if I made a mistake thats cool but instead of rolling your eyes why don't tell us what was actually said in full then .......



#7430 Hacklerf

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 14:51

Today

MS radio: "rear tyres overheating and locking under braking".

MS engineer Shove: "cool them down then"

I can't imagine why MS would want a new engineer ......


If this is true, i would be disgusted

#7431 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 14:55

btw, with the reshuffling next year, what position is Haug going to have inside the team?
I hope he's getting brawns place as team principal, since he seems more supportive of MS than brawn.


It was Brawn who arm twisted Schumacher into coming back......

#7432 bonjon1979a

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 14:56

If this is true, i would be disgusted


It's not.

#7433 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 15:06

again, what was the actual conversation?

#7434 Mastah

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 15:23

74 min: Schumacher is reporting some rear tyre locking following his attacking efforts through the twisty section of the circuit a few moments ago.

74 min: The German suggests that he should cool down the tyres before attempting another quick time. The plan is agreed and he backs off a little.


Can anyone from UK quote exact conversation? It should be after 1 hour 15 minutes mark:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...x_Practice_One/

#7435 Legendary

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 15:39

again, what was the actual conversation?

Michael Says quite a lot, some of which is hard to make out, about the rear tyres overheating through 7 and 8 due to locking. Shovlin replies "Yeah copy that. Try and let them cool down abit"

(Around 1:18:20 on the iplayer)

Edited by Legendary, 05 November 2010 - 15:40.


#7436 Diablobb81

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 18:15

Whenever there is something about Michael people go into full retard mode. Just read/listen to the reactions on the Jamie incident. "he brake tested him"...

#7437 RedBaron

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 18:39

Whenever there is something about Michael people go into full retard mode. Just read/listen to the reactions on the Jamie incident. "he brake tested him"...



I thought he felt contact and moved well to the inside of the exit to get out the way...

It wasn't quite Schumacher v Kimi Brazil 2006 as far as moves go!

#7438 Johnrambo

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 09:17

So Schumacher took out the front wing of Alguersuari. I don't think it was deliberate. The old man has just lost his spatial awareness. The stewards & FIA should monitor MS's on track actions carefully and take the right steps conserning his superlicence if this becomes more frequent. Maybe F1 needs to impose age limit for F1 drivers?

#7439 Diablobb81

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 09:31

So Schumacher took out the front wing of Alguersuari. I don't think it was deliberate. The old man has just lost his spatial awareness. The stewards & FIA should monitor MS's on track actions carefully and take the right steps conserning his superlicence if this becomes more frequent. Maybe F1 needs to impose age limit for F1 drivers?


Or the more real explanation that Jamie had a spin, Michael passed and then Jamie decided to fight for position after the FP ended. Wtf? Jamie made the same stupid mistake he made with Koba last race. Just keep accelerating.

Edited by Diablobb81, 06 November 2010 - 09:31.


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#7440 as65p

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:04

Today

MS radio: "rear tyres overheating and locking under braking".

MS engineer Shove: "cool them down then"

I can't imagine why MS would want a new engineer ......


From the replies I take it that Shovlin said something really terrible there, but for the heck of me I can't figure it out. :drunk: Apparently it's an insult to suggest to a driver to let his rear tyres cool down, or what?

#7441 baddog

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:07

So Schumacher took out the front wing of Alguersuari. I don't think it was deliberate. The old man has just lost his spatial awareness. The stewards & FIA should monitor MS's on track actions carefully and take the right steps conserning his superlicence if this becomes more frequent. Maybe F1 needs to impose age limit for F1 drivers?

I nominate this for the Autosport Schumacher Bashers Club 'Disastrous post of the season' award for both its lack of useful content and for its poor spelling and sentence structure.

I mean really.. Are you even serious with this?

#7442 smitten

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:15

From the replies I take it that Shovlin said something really terrible there, but for the heck of me I can't figure it out. :drunk: Apparently it's an insult to suggest to a driver to let his rear tyres cool down, or what?


Agreed. They don't have tyres to spare so they can't change them, and if they were on a longer run to try some settings then what option did MS have? Cool tyres or abandon the run.


#7443 SpeedyS

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:23

So Schumacher took out the front wing of Alguersuari. I don't think it was deliberate. The old man has just lost his spatial awareness. The stewards & FIA should monitor MS's on track actions carefully and take the right steps conserning his superlicence if this becomes more frequent. Maybe F1 needs to impose age limit for F1 drivers?


Lost his spacial awareness...! Have you seen his starts in all 17 GP's so far this season?? He has proven much greater spacial awareness than anyone!

Edited by SpeedyS, 06 November 2010 - 10:45.


#7444 as65p

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:33

Whatever Algu... did wrong, the slowdown at corner exit from MS was nasty. A revanche foul most likely, pretty common, but of course totally not politically correct these days :p

#7445 DanardiF1

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:45

From the replies I take it that Shovlin said something really terrible there, but for the heck of me I can't figure it out. :drunk: Apparently it's an insult to suggest to a driver to let his rear tyres cool down, or what?


I think the insinuation is that if they are doing a race simulation, surely in the race Michael might not be able to just 'cool them down' because he might be racing someone. It would be more pro-active to take it on board and then work on eliminating the cause or at least lessening it for the next run...

#7446 Johnrambo

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:54

I nominate this for the Autosport Schumacher Bashers Club 'Disastrous post of the season' award for both its lack of useful content and for its poor spelling and sentence structure.

I mean really.. Are you even serious with this?


I take it that you agree with the content since you concentrate on trivial matters (spelling/sentences poor where?) and attacking the poster. :rolleyes: Just face it the old guy is past it and next year will be even worse.


#7447 baddog

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 11:00

I take it that you agree with the content since you concentrate on trivial matters (spelling/sentences poor where?) and attacking the poster. :rolleyes: Just face it the old guy is past it and next year will be even worse.

No I mentioned content first, as the horrible attempt at an insulting post was much more worthy of notice than its poor presentation.

Most people shoot for either good or pretty. You went for neither.

If you want a proper response, I will give you one.

Michael's ability to drive in close situations has never been better, and it is better than more than half the field. He has constantly shown superb handling of messy starts and the busy runs through the first corners, and has dodged trouble and stayed in the race where younger guys have blown it. Your point was ridiculous and really just a cheap insult, based on you having nothing but his age to dig at recently.

Edited by baddog, 06 November 2010 - 11:01.


#7448 as65p

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 11:16

I think the insinuation is that if they are doing a race simulation, surely in the race Michael might not be able to just 'cool them down' because he might be racing someone. It would be more pro-active to take it on board and then work on eliminating the cause or at least lessening it for the next run...


Still the immediate reaction seems entirely reasonable to me, for the present run: cool the tyres down. What else should Shovlin say? "Oh sh*t, we're doomed, let's pack it in and fly to a Rio beach" ?

#7449 DanardiF1

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 11:21

Still the immediate reaction seems entirely reasonable to me, for the present run: cool the tyres down. What else should Shovlin say? "Oh sh*t, we're doomed, let's pack it in and fly to a Rio beach" ?


No, but he could say 'try this diff setting' or 'bring the brakes back a bit' and then see what happens... for that session yes it doesn't entirely matter what is said, and I for one don't particularly care(!), but you would still think that a driver's personal engineer would be a bit more creative with solutions...

#7450 smitten

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 12:22

No, but he could say 'try this diff setting' or 'bring the brakes back a bit' and then see what happens... for that session yes it doesn't entirely matter what is said, and I for one don't particularly care(!), but you would still think that a driver's personal engineer would be a bit more creative with solutions...


That is assuming he had the answer immediately to hand. If it needed a bit of consideration, that kind of communication may have come in a later radio message. Pit to driver radio is interesting, but you can read too much into it sometimes.