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#7551 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 21:14

somebody clearly didn't watch malaysia 1999
or barcelona..was it 2001? when with car trouble he helped rubens pass both him and ralf



It was Catalunya 2000.

It was very clever the way Michael pushed Ralf wide and let Rubens through.

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#7552 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 21:20

so everybody was bashing Ferrari like crazy after Germany but when Mercedes do it, it is ok or what?


Ferrari was too blatant and obvious in Germany this year. Felipe made is as obvious as possible and wanted the rest of the world to know it.

Schumacher - I get the impression - is happy to do it as long as it benefits the team in the long term and that it is sort of obvious too (hence why he made it public today and a few other times). He is very professional about it though and doesn't complain like Massa and Rubens and Webber have done about it.

I get the feeling Schumacher is getting a little pissed off with all the criticism so has just started making it public that 'look guys, there are certain strategies we have adopted this year....Nico's position in the WDC isnt secure, we're trying to secure it for him....I'm testing for next year and doing the donkey work with tyres and letting Nico and the team benefit from it'.

I imagine it's eating him up but being the professional he is, he is more than willing as long as there is a long term benefit for him and the team.

#7553 arknor

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 21:22

Was that the first time Schumacher has on record allowed a team mate to pass him for position?

when schumacher broke his leg at silverstone and he missed a bunch of races he came back to try and help irvine win the championship and in atleast 2 diference races he let irvine pass, in one race i think schumacher was so fast he had to let irvine past 3 times :rotfl:

#7554 SeanValen

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 21:37

Ferrari was too blatant and obvious in Germany this year. Felipe made is as obvious as possible and wanted the rest of the world to know it.

Schumacher - I get the impression - is happy to do it as long as it benefits the team in the long term and that it is sort of obvious too (hence why he made it public today and a few other times). He is very professional about it though and doesn't complain like Massa and Rubens and Webber have done about it.

I get the feeling Schumacher is getting a little pissed off with all the criticism so has just started making it public that 'look guys, there are certain strategies we have adopted this year....Nico's position in the WDC isnt secure, we're trying to secure it for him....I'm testing for next year and doing the donkey work with tyres and letting Nico and the team benefit from it'.

I imagine it's eating him up but being the professional he is, he is more than willing as long as there is a long term benefit for him and the team.




I think you pretty much summed it up. Schumacher is willing to take the punches now, and infact if there is no real testing involved and Michael quite publically said that a complete ban on testing is silly, which I agree with, then in a season like 2010, not fighting for wins, I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing other programmes, because your quite limited what you can do with the rules now, I mean in the future, if one driver has been doing better for the first half of the season, I woudn't be surpised if team orders came into play, that the other driver who did less well started doing work for next year or testing out parts in sessions and things. You never know. Michael in the past kept alot of things quiet, so his revelations are quite informative and pretty much needed because everyoine wants to know how he's doing given the legend he is, they want reasons why we need to wait and see his tenture at this team out. It must be frustrating but it something he knows he needs to do. Difficult given a proud man he is of his accomplisments, but says alot how much he wants to win.

Edited by SeanValen, 07 November 2010 - 21:40.


#7555 Juan Kerr

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 21:41

mercedes is fuxxing up too many races for michael. you must be dumb to make him pit when there's sutil coming... then no new set like rosberg at the end.

Shovlin is rubbish

#7556 Muz Bee

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 22:45

Brawn didn't get his old pal Michael into the team at great expense to nobble his results. People need to get off this idea that they are trying to make him look bad. The criticisms and excuses are like a revolving table of "next reason for MS results". Maybe next year we will find out what (if anything) has hampered Michael's performances but at the moment he has not been quick enough in qualifying, sometimes too aggressive on his tyres in races, and at times had been given strategies which in retrospect haven't worked. The latter is one area he has definitely suffered relative to Nico. The excuses about being given time may finally have borne fruit, he has been better over the last few races to the point where he is a challenge for his younger team mate. The luck/mechanical failure/pitstops and so on is pretty even thanks to Nico's poor run of luck recently.

It's really easy for us out here to be critical of people who are among the top of their profession - they don't make these decisions out of spite or favouritism and they don't make errors of judgement because they are incompetent. It is how the sport is and it goes in cycles, look how average McLaren look at the moment. Michael has found something recently and now looks worthy of his seat at Mercedes but still needs to work on his one lap pace. Never before has qualifying positions been so important, all the more reason for admiring Nico's work today - P13 - P6 behind 2 RBs, 2 Macs and a Ferrari. You can't wish for better than that. Michael today did a good job in support.

#7557 black magic

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 23:01

I agree it is not deliberate to make michael look bad. thre is a clear strategy however to maximise rosbergs points which largely seem to be coming at schumachers expense.

eg if pitting michael was the "right" time then rosberg should have been pitted first as running behind and used him as the gauge to the cars coming behind. he qualified higher, had passed button and was looking very pacy initially, if anything marginally quicker than rosberg

I will question decisions however that I by using the internet can see gaps either disappearing or being non existant or here failing to also reshod michael when no apparant penalty to do so - made worse by the fact that rosberg and his side of the garage were allowed, spotted the opportunity.


are we allowed to know who is responsible for the startegy. I wonder whether brawn has deligated it and trying to stay clear to give someone else the chance/experience.

while we are on it, how has jock clear gained this reputation. villeneuve won 1 championship with the best car by some mile and since did what exactly?

clears "promotion" is needed

#7558 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 23:27

while we are on it, how has jock clear gained this reputation. villeneuve won 1 championship with the best car by some mile and since did what exactly?

he almost managed to lose that title

#7559 dav115

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 01:23

Someone's put Schumacher's Brazil Q3 laps up here.

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#7560 cheapracer

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 04:46

I'm sure MS is happy to let Rosberg catch Massa and I'm sure they are working on lots of stuff in the background during the race as it's obviously the only testing time and I wouldn't be surprised if some of MS's car wasn't leaning towards 2011 setups.

Does anyone have but part of a clue what Massa said to MS at the post race weigh in?

#7561 thrillercd

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 10:06

Does anyone have Michael's start video or Michael and Kubica battle video ?

#7562 britishtrident

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 12:16

Schumacher confirming that he let Rosberg past at the restart because he was much faster (If only Rosberg would have done the same at Suzuka).


Translates as ------- he knew he couldn't hold Rosberg and didn't want the to be seen to get beaten in a passing manouver by Nico.

Schumacher however is driving much better than he did at the start of the season and is now improving with every race.

#7563 ivand911

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 12:58

Translates as ------- he knew he couldn't hold Rosberg and didn't want the to be seen to get beaten in a passing manouver by Nico.

Translates as : I know what team want , then I will play for the team, like in Germany, Spa, Japan.


#7564 DanardiF1

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 13:00

Translates as : I know what team want , then I will play for the team, like in Germany, Spa, Japan.


Bingo

Why waste time squabbling when Michael could weigh up his own situation AND then Rosberg's on top of that, and then reason that it would be better for Nico to have a go at attacking the McLarens if possible. Mercedes scored the same WCC points, and Nico jumped Kubica in WDC too, so good team playing from Schumi, and clever thinking on his and presumably Ross' part too.

Edited by DanardiF1, 08 November 2010 - 13:01.


#7565 vovelo

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 13:03

That Kubica moron is just pushing too many drivers off the track and doesnt even get reprimanded. MS would have been 6th and well clear of Nico and had a real shot at beating Hamilton into 4th place if Kubica had not pushed him wide.

I agree with you . Kubica did this action second time this year . Remember Canada race when he was too optimistic under the braking and almost crashed into Michael's car .

#7566 arknor

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 13:07

I agree with you . Kubica did this action second time this year . Remember Canada race when he was too optimistic under the braking and almost crashed into Michael's car .

he did the same thing to alonso at a chicane aswell ?
and probably alot of other drivers we havent witnessed on camera , torro rosso drivers are the same aswell

#7567 zawisza

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 14:21

(GoRacing @ Nov 7 2010, 19:16)
That Kubica moron is just pushing too many drivers off the track and doesnt even get reprimanded. MS would have been 6th and well clear of Nico and had a real shot at beating Hamilton into 4th place if Kubica had not pushed him wide.

(vovelo @ Nov 8 2010, 13:03)
I agree with you . Kubica did this action second time this year . Remember Canada race when he was too optimistic under the braking and almost crashed into Michael's car .

he did the same thing to alonso at a chicane aswell ?
and probably alot of other drivers we havent witnessed on camera , torro rosso drivers are the same aswell


:clap: :rotfl: Thank you, thank you very much. You made my day. Really.

#7568 Spa95

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 14:51

That Kubica moron is just pushing too many drivers off the track and doesnt even get reprimanded. MS would have been 6th and well clear of Nico and had a real shot at beating Hamilton into 4th place if Kubica had not pushed him wide.

Agreed, it's about time Kubica gets some sort of penalty for his driving.

Edited by Spa95, 08 November 2010 - 14:51.


#7569 Frans

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 15:40

Kubica did just fine on those occasions! What should he have done else? Let Schumacher hit HIM? Come on, it was fair fights with Kubica, Michael simply meets a match right there already. I don't see anything wrong in Kubica's actions at all.

The days where everyone just "moved over" for Der Michael, because he was DER Michael are simply over.

#7570 Wilgot

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 16:13

- First corners of the race. (watch from about 1:05) ... I definitely think Kubica could have given him a little bit more room! :)

- Schumacher overtakes Button. (very short clip)

#7571 arknor

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 16:44

- First corners of the race. (watch from about 1:05) ... I definitely think Kubica could have given him a little bit more room! :)

- Schumacher overtakes Button. (very short clip)

kubica needs to be told to stop doing that crap he did it to schumacher in canada.

he did it to alonso at silverstone

how many others has he done it to?

#7572 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 17:09

As it's becoming more general, please take the Kubica discussion to another thread.

#7573 SchumiP1

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 17:16

So, now that Brazil is behind us and Schumacher for some reason didn't get to the podium, what needs to be done to achieve it in Abu Dhabi? They better not force Schumacher to play the team game this time, let the old man drive for himself for once, for crying out loud! Rosberg has had enough positions handed to him by Schumacher just for 7th place in the WDC?!
Hopefully Michael can just go all the way in Abu Dhabi.

#7574 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 17:28

oh come on...there is no point in feeding the schumi bashers like this

he's had a bad season and he plays the team game.
that's all there is to it

#7575 Muz Bee

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 19:33

A suggestion - why don't Michael's more blinkered fans just admit that they believe that like Ferrari, MS should have his own set of rules, like Hungary disgrace. Didn't see a lot of the rabid fans baying for Michael to be suspended like Derek Warwick and most of the past WDCs.

Really amusing how Kubica is such a bad guy - my folks had a saying "sauce for the gander". Nobody is afraid to serve it BACK to Michael any more.

#7576 exmayol

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 20:45

Nobody is afraid to serve it BACK to Michael any more.

Good for them. Yet only Michel is declared evil for racing hard. Episodes with other drivers doing it hard get no attention whatsoever..

#7577 Tarzaan

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 21:08

Translates as : I know what team want , then I will play for the team, like in Germany, Spa, Japan.



true

#7578 Jazza

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:21

How the hell can anyone blame Kubica in Brazil for MS going off? MS tried to drive around the outside of Kubica, and when MS went off the road onto the ripple strip his front wing was only level with Kubica's rear wheel. By time he even hit the grass Kubica was long gone.




#7579 Tarzaan

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 06:01

How the hell can anyone blame Kubica in Brazil for MS going off? MS tried to drive around the outside of Kubica, and when MS went off the road onto the ripple strip his front wing was only level with Kubica's rear wheel. By time he even hit the grass Kubica was long gone.




wrong



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#7580 baddog

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 06:37

How the hell can anyone blame Kubica in Brazil for MS going off? MS tried to drive around the outside of Kubica, and when MS went off the road onto the ripple strip his front wing was only level with Kubica's rear wheel. By time he even hit the grass Kubica was long gone.

I would be hesistant to lie like that in a thunderstorm if I were you..

Honestly.. Kubica is BEHIND coming into the first apex of the corner, runs very badly wide coming across to the second part, loses his back end slightly, hits Michael
rear wheel to rear wheel forcing him to go off track and slow to avoid being taken out, cuts completely from one kerb to the other.. The exact opposite of what you said in fact.

#7581 baddog

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 06:53

Posted Image

Contract Kubicas wild lunge left to Alonso right in front of him.. he basically just drives Michael off the track.

#7582 Jazza

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 07:45

I would be hesistant to lie like that in a thunderstorm if I were you..

Honestly.. Kubica is BEHIND coming into the first apex of the corner, runs very badly wide coming across to the second part, loses his back end slightly, hits Michael
rear wheel to rear wheel forcing him to go off track and slow to avoid being taken out, cuts completely from one kerb to the other.. The exact opposite of what you said in fact.


How is it a lie? MS is trying to go around the outside in the corner. Watch your own video. It is clear as day that the yellow car is on the inside, and the silver car the outside. I would also like to know what your idea of the apex is if you think that the yellow car is behind in any noticeable way. Alongside at worse, but behind at the apex?

Ill also stand by the comment that when MS goes on the ripple strip his front end is only alongside RK rear end, and when MS hits the grass RK is long gone. How about you add a few more frames to your little video. Lets see it show the complete opposite of what I said.

#7583 arknor

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 07:53

Ill also stand by the comment that when MS goes on the ripple strip his front end is only alongside RK rear end, and when MS hits the grass RK is long gone. How about you add a few more frames to your little video. Lets see it show the complete opposite of what I said.

are you blind? msc is completely along side him before he has to back off, kubica shouldnt be running people out of road like that the chance to block had long passed and its not the first time hes done it this season it seems to be a regular occurence with just about anyone who tries to over take him.
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looks like he is about even going in to the corner to me, schumacher is also on the line people would usually take , ikubica wouldnt have ran schumacher out of road schumacher would have been the one on the inside even he pretty much is on this picture anyway

Edited by arknor, 09 November 2010 - 08:00.


#7584 Jazza

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:15

are you blind? msc is completely along side him before he has to back off, kubica shouldnt be running people out of road like that the chance to block had long passed and its not the first time hes done it this season it seems to be a regular occurence with just about anyone who tries to over take him.


After defending Hungary this year, this is laughable.

Posted Image
looks like he is about even going in to the corner to me, schumacher is also on the line people would usually take , ikubica wouldnt have ran schumacher out of road schumacher would have been the one on the inside even he pretty much is on this picture anyway


Even more laughable. You drew a diagonal line across the track.

I'm not debating that they were along side at one point. However, anyone who wants to dispute that MS is the one on the outside is nuts. It is clear in all these picture that the corner turns right and RK is on the right hand side. MS is on the outside of the corner and is trying to go around the outside. By time they start to straighten up to head into the left hand corner MS is starting to drop back. By time MS goes off track he is no longer alongside.

#7585 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:22

Kubica was aggressive, as usual.

#7586 MCh000

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:37

Contract Kubicas wild lunge left to Alonso right in front of him.. he basically just drives Michael off the track.


Hard to argue. The only question is whether Kubica did it on purpose or was driving too fast into the corner with attitude "it's all or nothing".

#7587 arknor

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:47

Even more laughable. You drew a diagonal line across the track.

yes to show the front wing on the cars is on the same line you were attempting to argue schumacher wasnt even alongside him, when clearly he is as aslongside as you can get without beeing infront....

if kubica would have turned when you normally would schumacher would have been the one on the inside and he would have shot past kubica.

you can see from the imahes schumacher is going much faster until kubica forces him to back off.

if it happened to anyone other than schumacher it would be an entirely different story

Edited by arknor, 09 November 2010 - 08:48.


#7588 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:49


montoya wasn't kubica

#7589 Jazza

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:54

Hard to argue. The only question is whether Kubica did it on purpose or was driving too fast into the corner with attitude "it's all or nothing".


Easy to argue. RK takes the same exit line as SV, NH, MW, and LH in front. Alnoso is the only one who took a tight exit. In other words RK line was perfectly normal, and not a result of driving too fast or tyring to have MS off.

If we want to comapre anyone to Alonso, how about MS. Why did he feel a need to take such a tight line into the corner forcing RK to go right up to the ripple strip? Notice how Alonso stayed to the left of the track going into the right hander, and MS went to the right? Now why would he do that? It wasn't to force RK to take a tighter line making him sacrifice corner speed was it? (which is perfectly acceptable hard and smart racing, but no harder than RK who was just taking the line for the corner.)



#7590 cheapracer

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:02

if it happened to anyone other than Schumacher it would be an entirely different story


Meh nothing - Shumacher never complains when drivers do something hard to him, he leaves it ontrack and always has and thats one of the things I like about him. I'm certain thats why not a lot is made about these incidents from his fans because they know he can take it. He even praised Rosberg after Spa and Suzuka for hard driving.

Edited by cheapracer, 09 November 2010 - 09:04.


#7591 Jazza

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:03

yes to show the front wing on the cars is on the same line you were attempting to argue schumacher wasnt even alongside him, when clearly he is as aslongside as you can get without beeing infront....


Quote from myself:Im not debating that they were along side at one point

if kubica would have turned when you normally would schumacher would have been the one on the inside and he would have shot past kubica.

you can see from the imahes schumacher is going much faster until kubica forces him to back off.


He turned the same as 4 of the 5 cars in front. It is normal!

Also, since MS was alongside at the apex, yet was behind by time they got to the ripple strip on the exit, I fail to see proof that MS was going much faster

if it happened to anyone other than schumacher it would be an entirely different story


Your right. You wouldn't care. Or if MS was in the yellow car, you would be blaming the silver one.


#7592 Jazza

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:05

Meh nothing - Shumacher never complains when drivers do something hard to him, he leaves it ontrack and always has and thats one of the things I like about him. I'm certain thats why not a lot is made about these incidents from his fans because they know he can take it. He even praised Rosberg after Spa and Suzuka for hard driving.


Only if you don't include him accusing drivers of trying to kill him, or that they should just get a gun :rolleyes:

#7593 cheapracer

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:11

Only if you don't include him accusing drivers of trying to kill him, or that they should just get a gun :rolleyes:


What are you lonely today or something, snowing bad outside maybe?

No I don't include that, that was an extreme incident of which MS was quite happy to go one on one right there and then.


#7594 Jazza

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:17

What are you lonely today or something, snowing bad outside maybe?

No I don't include that, that was an extreme incident of which MS was quite happy to go one on one right there and then.


A bit overcast, a bit cool for an Australian November maybe, but no snow thanks.

One on one? Spa yes, Canada?

#7595 SpeedyS

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:14

After defending Hungary this year, this is laughable.



Even more laughable. You drew a diagonal line across the track.

I'm not debating that they were along side at one point. However, anyone who wants to dispute that MS is the one on the outside is nuts. It is clear in all these picture that the corner turns right and RK is on the right hand side. MS is on the outside of the corner and is trying to go around the outside. By time they start to straighten up to head into the left hand corner MS is starting to drop back. By time MS goes off track he is no longer alongside.


Of course he was not, RK was cutting accross him MS had to hit the brakes and go onto the grass if he had not it would have be a DNF..

#7596 SpeedyS

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:16

After defending Hungary this year, this is laughable.



Even more laughable. You drew a diagonal line across the track.

I'm not debating that they were along side at one point. However, anyone who wants to dispute that MS is the one on the outside is nuts. It is clear in all these picture that the corner turns right and RK is on the right hand side. MS is on the outside of the corner and is trying to go around the outside. By time they start to straighten up to head into the left hand corner MS is starting to drop back. By time MS goes off track he is no longer alongside.


Of course he was not, RK was cutting accross him MS had to hit the brakes and go onto the grass if he had not it would have be a DNF..

#7597 SpeedyS

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:18


montoya wasn't kubica

:up:

#7598 One

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:22

I read the piece on autosport news. He let Nico pass during the Brazil GP.

When is his retirement?

#7599 Jazza

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:23

Of course he was not, RK was cutting accross him MS had to hit the brakes and go onto the grass if he had not it would have be a DNF..


Hit the brakes? Go onto the grass? He tried to go along the curb and slid a bit resulting in him putting two wheels on the grass and loosing a bit of speed. It wasn't like he had to do an emergency move and jump off the track.

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#7600 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:33

wow, the car slid towards the inside of the turn
really, wow