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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#7701 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 03:14

Schumacher's mistake, off line on the marbles and probably being more polite to Rosberg than he would be to others. Feel sorry for Liuzzi and I'm sure MS was quick to apologise.

Funny in todays F1 and the modern tyres how this isn't so common but 20+ years ago you would have a simple spin like this on the first lap of almost every F1 race from either end of the field.

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#7702 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 03:17

The only way Schu will win everyone back is by winning the 2011 Championship at his age.


Won't change a thing, those who can't see what he is doing now or in the past will be blind to anything that comes in the future.


#7703 exmayol

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 03:20

The only way Schu will win everyone back is by winning the 2011 Championship at his age.


I don't think he needs to win anyone back; I don't recall him losing anyone really. Building proper MGP car and being up there in the leading pack should be more than sufficient to prove bashers wrong.

For an adequate fan it's not the statistics that define MS but his consistency, dedication and hard work which allowed him being among the best men in a such competitive sport for so long. I hope next year will bring more of that. After all we've seen the solid the trend of things going the right way.

#7704 stevewf1

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:47

If Schumacher hadn't goosed his car forward a couple of feet after his spin, Liuzzi could have ended up right on top of his head instead of just behind it...


#7705 Polle

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:23

The crashed scared the **** out of me after I saw the FI got hideously close to his head. For a moment I thought he was knocked unconscious when his head bobbled in every direction. Glad he was ok, Not really Nico's fault, it was the slightest of touches, Rubens braked real early for some reason.

#7706 arknor

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:30

i remember alot of people claiming schumacher didnt want to over take the FI in brazil, im guessing its different now its alonso and hamilton following a much slower renault for a race.

the same as it was different when schumacher was following a torro rosso in aus

#7707 ivand911

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:32

I don't know if Rubens was brake testing his old friend. But, after this incident made Vettel Champion I will not complain. But, it was dangerous and this is problem.
Michael overtake TR(Jaime) twice in Australia.

Edited by ivand911, 15 November 2010 - 07:33.


#7708 arknor

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:47

I don't know if Rubens was brake testing his old friend. But, after this incident made Vettel Champion I will not complain. But, it was dangerous and this is problem.
Michael overtake TR(Jaime) twice in Australia.

after following for ages though and the "twice" part showed even back then he was getting stupid stratergies and they never learned

#7709 topical

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:51

The crash was a sadly fitting end to an utterly disastrous and shambolic comeback season. In 2011 things can, as they say, only get better.

#7710 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:52

The crashed scared the **** out of me after I saw the FI got hideously close to his head. For a moment I thought he was knocked unconscious when his head bobbled in every direction. Glad he was ok, Not really Nico's fault, it was the slightest of touches, Rubens braked real early for some reason.


Nope, it really was all MS's fault, Rosberg didn't touch him although it may be Rosberg's fault only from the sense that MS didn't want any contact with his teammate and was holding wider than he may of with another competitor (and on the marbles).

The only other first lap own-spin from MS I can remember was at Monaco when he hit white line in the rain ('96?).

I'm still sniggering a little from all the crap MS fan's have taken from nasty Alonso fan's over the years and MS's spin was part of the reason Alonso lost the WDC :lol:


#7711 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:57

The crash was a sadly fitting end to an utterly disastrous and shambolic comeback season. In 2011 things can, as they say, only get better.


Oh it's you again :lol:

It was a pretty good comeback year from a point of view of those who actually understand motor racing.

Do you know what "shambolic" actually means? RBR and Ferrari had a "shambolic" year, Benz did not.


#7712 topical

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:09

Do you know what "shambolic" actually means? RBR and Ferrari had a "shambolic" year, Benz did not.


He said at the start of the year that his goal in coming back was to win the championship. Instead he didn't even get a podium, was thrashed by his teammate, was involved in numerous crashes and errors, and even his boss and great friend Brawn said that if he was anyone other than Schumacher he probably wouldn't be retained for next year. If that's what you call a successful comeback then please, pass me some of what you're smoking... :lol:

Edited by topical, 15 November 2010 - 08:09.


#7713 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:12

He said at the start of the year that his goal in coming back was to win the championship. Instead he didn't even get a podium, was thrashed by his teammate, was involved in numerous crashes and errors, and even his boss and great friend Brawn said that if he was anyone other than Schumacher he probably wouldn't be retained for next year. If that's what you call a successful comeback then please, pass me some of what you're smoking... :lol:


Your post had credibility back in July Mate.

#7714 arknor

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:31

He said at the start of the year that his goal in coming back was to win the championship. Instead he didn't even get a podium, was thrashed by his teammate, was involved in numerous crashes and errors, and even his boss and great friend Brawn said that if he was anyone other than Schumacher he probably wouldn't be retained for next year. If that's what you call a successful comeback then please, pass me some of what you're smoking... :lol:

atleast schumacher has a reason for the mistakes.

what about alonso? monaco ? spa?
what about hamilton?
and if button can win a WDC and webber almost win a WDC im sure anyone can.

winning several doesnt come from just getting in one of the top teams as massa will tell you

#7715 topical

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:47

Your post had credibility back in July Mate.


So you think Schumacher made a big improvement in the latter part of the season? Well let's see what happens next year then. Frankly I'd be quite happy for him to get in the mix a bit, as he's certainly mellowed and become more likeable as a person (notice his relaxed humour after the crash yesterday), even if his driving ethics are as questionable as ever...

#7716 ivand911

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:13

So you think Schumacher made a big improvement in the latter part of the season? Well let's see what happens next year then. Frankly I'd be quite happy for him to get in the mix a bit, as he's certainly mellowed and become more likeable as a person (notice his relaxed humour after the crash yesterday), even if his driving ethics are as questionable as ever...

I don't think Michael improve, they finally give him latest chassis 5 and he stop doing most of the testing. So with better car(equal to his team mate) he finally have time to focus on competing. Also he learn tyres.


#7717 Augurk

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:17

So you think Schumacher made a big improvement in the latter part of the season? Well let's see what happens next year then. Frankly I'd be quite happy for him to get in the mix a bit, as he's certainly mellowed and become more likeable as a person (notice his relaxed humour after the crash yesterday), even if his driving ethics are as questionable as ever...

How are his driving ethics questionable?

#7718 Paco

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:31

He said at the start of the year that his goal in coming back was to win the championship. Instead he didn't even get a podium, was thrashed by his teammate, was involved in numerous crashes and errors, and even his boss and great friend Brawn said that if he was anyone other than Schumacher he probably wouldn't be retained for next year. If that's what you call a successful comeback then please, pass me some of what you're smoking... :lol:


Yes he said his comeback goal is to win a championship.... within 3 years (or more). He never said he was coming back and expecting to win it in the 1st year back. He knew exactly were Merc stood even before he signed on. He knew exactly where they were (as opposed to his teammate) after the initial test sessions. He hadn[t expected to be behind his team mate as much as he was but by end of year he had made up most of that ground if not all of it. So all in...

Merc was a solid car. just not top 3. but a constant top 10 showing which is by f1 standards.. very good.
Struggled with the tires but by end of year started to get to grips with the car.
So solid first year.

Only neg. - took much longer to get up to speed and ended up finishing behind his teammate.

Now that Brawn is fully over, the lack of 2009 budget setting back the 2010 car is over, both drivers capable and upto speed, new tires for the entire grid so no advantage to anyone there..

Let's see what Michael and Co. can do next season. By end of next year, we'll know if he's on it or not and capable of bring home a championship to Merc within the next few years.

Edited by Paco, 15 November 2010 - 09:33.


#7719 topical

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:37

How are his driving ethics questionable?


Hungary 2010

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#7720 topical

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:40

Yes he said his comeback goal is to win a championship.... within 3 years (or more). He never said he was coming back and expecting to win it in the 1st year back. He knew exactly were Merc stood even before he signed on.


This is what he said in January at the Merc launch:

"We have a world champion team in every sense of the word and I cannot wait to get into the car for the first time in Valencia," Schumacher said. "I am convinced that (Mercedes) will be in a very good position to fight for the championships this season and I will definitely give it a go."


#7721 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:44

He said at the start of the year that his goal in coming back was to win the championship. Instead he didn't even get a podium

He said that in January before even testing the car......
In February he said the car was a dog and the championships would be a long shot.
Rosberg lucked into a podium TWICE (both races when Schumacher had a damaged chassis from Melbourne...remember....?) but Silverstone was on merit.




was thrashed by his teammate,

As said in earlier posts, the difference between the two is exacerbated by the fact that Schumacher was doing dummy runs and Nico was the beneficiary. Team orders were used as early as Hockenheim (Brazil and Suzuka also spring to mind too). This is something you can't deny.

was involved in numerous crashes and errors, and even his boss and great friend Brawn said that if he was anyone other than Schumacher he probably wouldn't be retained for next year. If that's what you call a successful comeback then please, pass me some of what you're smoking... :lol:

The last races, I and others thought he redeemed himself and more than deserves his place in F1. Haters will carry on hating. See you in March friend :up:



#7722 Augurk

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:50

Hungary 2010

Oh come on. He fights hard on track and he never complains when he is fought back hard. He didn't complain in Canada when it ruined his race, he didn't complain when in Spa when his teammate pushed him off track and he didn't complain after Abu Dhabi, even with Rubens' obvious brake test and Rosberg's aggressive move pushing him to the dirty side.

Rubens is a crybaby, especially when it comes to Schumacher.

Also I don't get that Hamilton, Kobayashi and Kubica are praised for their aggressive driving, yet if Schumacher does it the whole world is on fire.

#7723 ivand911

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:51

This is what he said in January at the Merc launch:

"We have a world champion team in every sense of the word and I cannot wait to get into the car for the first time in Valencia," Schumacher said. "I am convinced that (Mercedes) will be in a very good position to fight for the championships this season and I will definitely give it a go."

So, the guy just forgot his crystal ball home. And he is guilty for that?


#7724 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:53

This is what he said in January at the Merc launch:

"We have a world champion team in every sense of the word and I cannot wait to get into the car for the first time in Valencia," Schumacher said. "I am convinced that (Mercedes) will be in a very good position to fight for the championships this season and I will definitely give it a go."


and this is what he said in February 27th, 2010

http://www.formula1....10/2/10474.html

Q: Michael, after this test the next stop is Bahrain. Are you satisfied with the car?

Michael Schumacher: Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan, but on the other hand I know that the car here in Barcelona is not the car that I will drive in Bahrain. There are still upgrades that are missing, so it is quite difficult to make a valid judgment of where we are. But in general, I would say that I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship.


Q: Do you think the car will be able to challenge for victory in Bahrain?


Still.....don't let that get in the way of your selective quoting :up:
MS: Maybe not.

#7725 topical

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:15

Oh come on. He fights hard on track and he never complains when he is fought back hard. He didn't complain in Canada when it ruined his race, he didn't complain when in Spa when his teammate pushed him off track and he didn't complain after Abu Dhabi, even with Rubens' obvious brake test and Rosberg's aggressive move pushing him to the dirty side.

Rubens is a crybaby, especially when it comes to Schumacher.

Also I don't get that Hamilton, Kobayashi and Kubica are praised for their aggressive driving, yet if Schumacher does it the whole world is on fire.



Schumacher was punished for that move and apologised for it afterwards. You can't deny it was over the top. Though I agree Rubens is a cry baby, but that's another story...

#7726 Mr2s

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:24

atleast schumacher has a reason for the mistakes.

what about alonso? monaco ? spa?
what about hamilton?
and if button can win a WDC and webber almost win a WDC im sure anyone can.

winning several doesnt come from just getting in one of the top teams as massa will tell you


Just a quick point.

Alonso has a long long way to go to beat Schumacher's practice crash record. The rules were unlucky for Alonso at monaco with a non spectacular shunt to boot.. Schumacher befitted from new chassis. Ive seen 2 Oz GPs schumacher made a mess of his car and was lucky to go on to win. In 2001 He was upside down.



Edited by Mr2s, 15 November 2010 - 12:25.


#7727 ivand911

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:27

Just a quick point.
Alonso has a long long way to go to beat Schumacher's practice crash record.

You are right, Alonso is long long way from any of Michael records. And honestly they all are.

Edited by ivand911, 15 November 2010 - 12:29.


#7728 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 13:20

Just a quick point.

Alonso has a long long way to go to beat Schumacher's practice crash record. The rules were unlucky for Alonso at monaco with a non spectacular shunt to boot.. Schumacher befitted from new chassis. Ive seen 2 Oz GPs schumacher made a mess of his car and was lucky to go on to win. In 2001 He was upside down.


how many crashes has michael had when this no spare, no engine etc were brought in?
maybe some drivers know when it is possible to risk and when not

#7729 Mr2s

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 13:44

how many crashes has michael had when this no spare, no engine etc were brought in?
maybe some drivers know when it is possible to risk and when not


yes thats very true and some people thought it was good schumacher was always on and over the limit.
But to crucify Alonso over Monaco is a bit much. It wasn't even a bad shunt.
Schumacher made a lot of errors and cracked under pressure more than Alonso has so far.

#7730 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 13:54

he's also delivered under pressure more than all the others, over 2 completely different decades of racing and regulations

nobody crucifies alonso for that. an error is still an error and it costs you, but that's part of the game.

#7731 aditya-now

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 16:36

How different today could have been.. F1 really does ride on a wave of luck when it comes to these kinds of incidents. Long may that luck continue.


Very very lucky escape. I am still in a kind of shock about the incident - just as Martin Brundle said, "That one will catch Michael´s attention!"


#7732 George Costanza

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 01:47

You are right, Alonso is long long way from any of Michael records. And honestly they all are.



I highly doubt any driver of this current generation will come close to Michael's records.

Or any generation for that matter.

Edited by George Costanza, 16 November 2010 - 01:48.


#7733 Louis Siefert

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 02:32

Very very lucky escape. I am still in a kind of shock about the incident - just as Martin Brundle said, "That one will catch Michael´s attention!"



http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#7734 tkulla

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 03:38

The crashed scared the **** out of me after I saw the FI got hideously close to his head. For a moment I thought he was knocked unconscious when his head bobbled in every direction. Glad he was ok, Not really Nico's fault, it was the slightest of touches, Rubens braked real early for some reason.


Imagine how his wife felt. Very scary stuff.

My money says Schumacher does not race next year. He'll drive the car in January but he'll only race if the car seems like a world-beater AND if he seems quicker than Rosberg. The odds of both of those happening is not great, so I say he'll decide to pack it up (as a driver, at least).

#7735 scarletf12002

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:06

Imagine how his wife felt. Very scary stuff.

My money says Schumacher does not race next year. He'll drive the car in January but he'll only race if the car seems like a world-beater AND if he seems quicker than Rosberg. The odds of both of those happening is not great, so I say he'll decide to pack it up (as a driver, at least).



I doubt it, cos how much worse can it be than this year in terms of critcism and pressure! For me he seems like a man who stays committed and doesn't back away cos gets difficult, I don't see that changing any time soon!


#7736 Szoelloe

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:08

Imagine how his wife felt. Very scary stuff.

My money says Schumacher does not race next year. He'll drive the car in January but he'll only race if the car seems like a world-beater AND if he seems quicker than Rosberg. The odds of both of those happening is not great, so I say he'll decide to pack it up (as a driver, at least).



You are obviously not a betting man

#7737 ivand911

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 11:52

Michael car crew pic
http://twitpic.com/37523e


#7738 topical

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:07

Imagine how his wife felt. Very scary stuff.

My money says Schumacher does not race next year. He'll drive the car in January but he'll only race if the car seems like a world-beater AND if he seems quicker than Rosberg. The odds of both of those happening is not great, so I say he'll decide to pack it up (as a driver, at least).


Rubbish. Schumacher definitely sounds to me like he is determined to come back at least for one more year. Even if his performances were lousy, he's at least 'having fun'. If things go as badly next year (he himself and/or the car) as this year then perhaps he'll call it a day at the end of 2011.

#7739 tkulla

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:58

Rubbish. Schumacher definitely sounds to me like he is determined to come back at least for one more year. Even if his performances were lousy, he's at least 'having fun'. If things go as badly next year (he himself and/or the car) as this year then perhaps he'll call it a day at the end of 2011.


Oh, it's not about his performances - I think he'll be on par with Nico next year. But he's a married man with children, and that accident highlights just how much risk he's taking on - and for what? Unless he has a chance to win the WDC the risk simply isn't with it for a guy who has already done it all.

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#7740 ivand911

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 14:52

Schumacher: First test key to '11 hopes
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88326

#7741 aditya-now

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:17

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


Thanks for the link, Louis, very touching and human words by Schumacher. I did not know that interview so far.

#7742 ali.unal

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:20

15 years ago:

Posted Image

Now:

Posted Image

#7743 aditya-now

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:22

Schumacher: First test key to '11 hopes
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88326


You can read both scenarios from his statements. He is committed to 2011, just as Mercedes 2011 is committed to him.
He will see very soon if the car will be competitive or if he will get "warnings".

Curious that he uses the word "warning"...


#7744 aditya-now

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:36

To me, Michael has been between 10th to 15th best this year, and I got my fair share of criticism for my rating.

However, Autosport driver ratings put him only in P23 (after Brazil, final judgement after Abu Dhabi still pending).
How come they put MS so low? Do they hate him? Is he realistically so bad, taken into consideration the car he drove, the standing he enjoys as a 7 time WDC?

These are the averages after Brazil.

Hamilton 8.17
Kubica 8.11
Alonso 8.11
Rosberg 7.89
Vettel 7.72
Webber 7.56
Barrichello 7.22
Kovalainen 7.11
Button 7.06
Klien 7.00
Kobayashi 6.67
Senna 6.65
Sutil 6.61
Hulkenberg 6.61
Chandhok 6.60
De La Rosa 6.57
Glock 6.53
Heidfeld 6.50
Trulli 6.50
Massa 6.39
Di Grassi 6.35
Alguersuari 6.22
Schumacher 6.17
Buemi 6.00
Liuzzi 5.72
Petrov 5.61
Yamamoto 5.00


#7745 Diablobb81

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:39

The grades he got from autosport in most races were hilariously low.

In my opinion he would be around 10th place this year.

#7746 ivand911

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:43

I am so surprised who is leading. :rotfl:

#7747 arknor

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:43

To me, Michael has been between 10th to 15th best this year, and I got my fair share of criticism for my rating.

However, Autosport driver ratings put him only in P23 (after Brazil, final judgement after Abu Dhabi still pending).
How come they put MS so low? Do they hate him? Is he realistically so bad, taken into consideration the car he drove, the standing he enjoys as a 7 time WDC?

hamilton top , vettel quite some way down , schumacher near the bottom.

probably a hardcore british suporter doing the ratings then?

im a brit but i never cared for hill , mansell , button , hamilton

#7748 DMatt001

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:52

What an antitalent made this???? Hahaha, i cant believe....

Schumacher P23, Kobayashi P11 but Klien which I didnt notice in the 2 races he drove are on P10 and Hamilton who crashed 5 x times and lose the Championship because of his mistakes are P1?

Funny :D

#7749 topical

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:58

Oh, it's not about his performances - I think he'll be on par with Nico next year. But he's a married man with children, and that accident highlights just how much risk he's taking on - and for what? Unless he has a chance to win the WDC the risk simply isn't with it for a guy who has already done it all.


If he was interested in the fate of his wife or children he would have stopped long ago and/or never made the comeback/got on motorbikes/taken up sky diving/etc. The competition and adrenaline obviously mean more to him than his family commitments so I really think that plays no role. He said at the start of the season - it's the thrill of the competition that gives him most pleasure in life.

As for the accident on Sunday - it's absolutely grotesque to think that a few centimetres to the other side and it's really possible Schumacher could have been beheaded live on TV. Thank goodness nothing of the sort happened but I don't think the accident will scare him at all. It was one of those freak things like an icicle falling off a roof in winter that could kill you. You can't defend against such things, just hope it doesn't happen. He got away with it once and it'll almost certainly never happen again.

#7750 Raelene

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 19:51

“Michael is a friend, and I have such respect for him that we discussed [his return] between us, at the end of last year,” revealed Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali. “Seven-time world champion is an achievement that I don't think anyone else will achieve, at least in the short-term.”

“When you've won seven world championships and over 90 grands prix, it's a hell of a ballsy thing at 40 years of age to say 'Okay, I'll come back and take on the current best of the crop',” added Domenicali's Red Bull Racing counterpart Christian Horner, at just 37, four years Schumacher's junior. “You've got to admire the guy for taking that decision in coming back.

“He's not been in the best car and I'm sure he won't be satisfied with his season, but he's a determined competitor and I think it's good to have him back in F1. It would be nice to see him in a quicker car, so long as it was just behind us, and I'm pleased he's around again next year. It makes me feel young!”

Those sentiments are echoed by McLaren-Mercedes team principal Martin Whitmarsh and Williams F1 chairman Adam Parr, who are both convinced Schumacher has the ability to bounce back next season and remind everybody of just what it was that made him by some margin the most successful driver in F1 history from 1991 to 2006.

“Let's be frank, as a seven-time world champion he will be disappointed with this season, of that I'm quite sure,” mused Whitmarsh. “He's a winner, he's won many, many races – but it's [about] a driver, a team, a car. We all play a role in our end success and lack of success, so I think anyone who writes Michael off and believes that he can't be more competitive next year will be foolish.

“Mercedes have a great heritage; they are still strong partners of us and were the heroes this time last year [as Brawn GP]. They've had a tough year but there are good people there, it's a good team and they've got two good drivers, one of whom has had a disappointing year. I think none of us here underestimate what they are capable of doing together next year – but there's no reason why [Schumacher] can't come back very strongly the following season

I think it's completely up to Mercedes and Michael Schumacher to determine how they see his career and how he's done,” opined Parr. “Clearly he's a seven-time world champion and an exceptionally talented, brilliant driver without any question at all – and nothing that he's done this year changes his incredible achievements.”