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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#7751 George Costanza

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 01:47

You are right, Alonso is long long way from any of Michael records. And honestly they all are.



I highly doubt any driver of this current generation will come close to Michael's records.

Or any generation for that matter.

Edited by George Costanza, 16 November 2010 - 01:48.


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#7752 Louis Siefert

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 02:32

Very very lucky escape. I am still in a kind of shock about the incident - just as Martin Brundle said, "That one will catch Michael´s attention!"



http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#7753 tkulla

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 03:38

The crashed scared the **** out of me after I saw the FI got hideously close to his head. For a moment I thought he was knocked unconscious when his head bobbled in every direction. Glad he was ok, Not really Nico's fault, it was the slightest of touches, Rubens braked real early for some reason.


Imagine how his wife felt. Very scary stuff.

My money says Schumacher does not race next year. He'll drive the car in January but he'll only race if the car seems like a world-beater AND if he seems quicker than Rosberg. The odds of both of those happening is not great, so I say he'll decide to pack it up (as a driver, at least).

#7754 scarletf12002

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:06

Imagine how his wife felt. Very scary stuff.

My money says Schumacher does not race next year. He'll drive the car in January but he'll only race if the car seems like a world-beater AND if he seems quicker than Rosberg. The odds of both of those happening is not great, so I say he'll decide to pack it up (as a driver, at least).



I doubt it, cos how much worse can it be than this year in terms of critcism and pressure! For me he seems like a man who stays committed and doesn't back away cos gets difficult, I don't see that changing any time soon!


#7755 Szoelloe

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:08

Imagine how his wife felt. Very scary stuff.

My money says Schumacher does not race next year. He'll drive the car in January but he'll only race if the car seems like a world-beater AND if he seems quicker than Rosberg. The odds of both of those happening is not great, so I say he'll decide to pack it up (as a driver, at least).



You are obviously not a betting man

#7756 ivand911

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 11:52

Michael car crew pic
http://twitpic.com/37523e


#7757 topical

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:07

Imagine how his wife felt. Very scary stuff.

My money says Schumacher does not race next year. He'll drive the car in January but he'll only race if the car seems like a world-beater AND if he seems quicker than Rosberg. The odds of both of those happening is not great, so I say he'll decide to pack it up (as a driver, at least).


Rubbish. Schumacher definitely sounds to me like he is determined to come back at least for one more year. Even if his performances were lousy, he's at least 'having fun'. If things go as badly next year (he himself and/or the car) as this year then perhaps he'll call it a day at the end of 2011.

#7758 tkulla

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:58

Rubbish. Schumacher definitely sounds to me like he is determined to come back at least for one more year. Even if his performances were lousy, he's at least 'having fun'. If things go as badly next year (he himself and/or the car) as this year then perhaps he'll call it a day at the end of 2011.


Oh, it's not about his performances - I think he'll be on par with Nico next year. But he's a married man with children, and that accident highlights just how much risk he's taking on - and for what? Unless he has a chance to win the WDC the risk simply isn't with it for a guy who has already done it all.

#7759 ivand911

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 14:52

Schumacher: First test key to '11 hopes
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88326

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#7760 aditya-now

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:17

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


Thanks for the link, Louis, very touching and human words by Schumacher. I did not know that interview so far.

#7761 ali.unal

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:20

15 years ago:

Posted Image

Now:

Posted Image

#7762 aditya-now

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:22

Schumacher: First test key to '11 hopes
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88326


You can read both scenarios from his statements. He is committed to 2011, just as Mercedes 2011 is committed to him.
He will see very soon if the car will be competitive or if he will get "warnings".

Curious that he uses the word "warning"...


#7763 aditya-now

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:36

To me, Michael has been between 10th to 15th best this year, and I got my fair share of criticism for my rating.

However, Autosport driver ratings put him only in P23 (after Brazil, final judgement after Abu Dhabi still pending).
How come they put MS so low? Do they hate him? Is he realistically so bad, taken into consideration the car he drove, the standing he enjoys as a 7 time WDC?

These are the averages after Brazil.

Hamilton 8.17
Kubica 8.11
Alonso 8.11
Rosberg 7.89
Vettel 7.72
Webber 7.56
Barrichello 7.22
Kovalainen 7.11
Button 7.06
Klien 7.00
Kobayashi 6.67
Senna 6.65
Sutil 6.61
Hulkenberg 6.61
Chandhok 6.60
De La Rosa 6.57
Glock 6.53
Heidfeld 6.50
Trulli 6.50
Massa 6.39
Di Grassi 6.35
Alguersuari 6.22
Schumacher 6.17
Buemi 6.00
Liuzzi 5.72
Petrov 5.61
Yamamoto 5.00


#7764 Diablobb81

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:39

The grades he got from autosport in most races were hilariously low.

In my opinion he would be around 10th place this year.

#7765 ivand911

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:43

I am so surprised who is leading. :rotfl:

#7766 arknor

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:43

To me, Michael has been between 10th to 15th best this year, and I got my fair share of criticism for my rating.

However, Autosport driver ratings put him only in P23 (after Brazil, final judgement after Abu Dhabi still pending).
How come they put MS so low? Do they hate him? Is he realistically so bad, taken into consideration the car he drove, the standing he enjoys as a 7 time WDC?

hamilton top , vettel quite some way down , schumacher near the bottom.

probably a hardcore british suporter doing the ratings then?

im a brit but i never cared for hill , mansell , button , hamilton

#7767 DMatt001

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:52

What an antitalent made this???? Hahaha, i cant believe....

Schumacher P23, Kobayashi P11 but Klien which I didnt notice in the 2 races he drove are on P10 and Hamilton who crashed 5 x times and lose the Championship because of his mistakes are P1?

Funny :D

#7768 topical

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 15:58

Oh, it's not about his performances - I think he'll be on par with Nico next year. But he's a married man with children, and that accident highlights just how much risk he's taking on - and for what? Unless he has a chance to win the WDC the risk simply isn't with it for a guy who has already done it all.


If he was interested in the fate of his wife or children he would have stopped long ago and/or never made the comeback/got on motorbikes/taken up sky diving/etc. The competition and adrenaline obviously mean more to him than his family commitments so I really think that plays no role. He said at the start of the season - it's the thrill of the competition that gives him most pleasure in life.

As for the accident on Sunday - it's absolutely grotesque to think that a few centimetres to the other side and it's really possible Schumacher could have been beheaded live on TV. Thank goodness nothing of the sort happened but I don't think the accident will scare him at all. It was one of those freak things like an icicle falling off a roof in winter that could kill you. You can't defend against such things, just hope it doesn't happen. He got away with it once and it'll almost certainly never happen again.

#7769 Raelene

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 19:51

“Michael is a friend, and I have such respect for him that we discussed [his return] between us, at the end of last year,” revealed Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali. “Seven-time world champion is an achievement that I don't think anyone else will achieve, at least in the short-term.”

“When you've won seven world championships and over 90 grands prix, it's a hell of a ballsy thing at 40 years of age to say 'Okay, I'll come back and take on the current best of the crop',” added Domenicali's Red Bull Racing counterpart Christian Horner, at just 37, four years Schumacher's junior. “You've got to admire the guy for taking that decision in coming back.

“He's not been in the best car and I'm sure he won't be satisfied with his season, but he's a determined competitor and I think it's good to have him back in F1. It would be nice to see him in a quicker car, so long as it was just behind us, and I'm pleased he's around again next year. It makes me feel young!”

Those sentiments are echoed by McLaren-Mercedes team principal Martin Whitmarsh and Williams F1 chairman Adam Parr, who are both convinced Schumacher has the ability to bounce back next season and remind everybody of just what it was that made him by some margin the most successful driver in F1 history from 1991 to 2006.

“Let's be frank, as a seven-time world champion he will be disappointed with this season, of that I'm quite sure,” mused Whitmarsh. “He's a winner, he's won many, many races – but it's [about] a driver, a team, a car. We all play a role in our end success and lack of success, so I think anyone who writes Michael off and believes that he can't be more competitive next year will be foolish.

“Mercedes have a great heritage; they are still strong partners of us and were the heroes this time last year [as Brawn GP]. They've had a tough year but there are good people there, it's a good team and they've got two good drivers, one of whom has had a disappointing year. I think none of us here underestimate what they are capable of doing together next year – but there's no reason why [Schumacher] can't come back very strongly the following season

I think it's completely up to Mercedes and Michael Schumacher to determine how they see his career and how he's done,” opined Parr. “Clearly he's a seven-time world champion and an exceptionally talented, brilliant driver without any question at all – and nothing that he's done this year changes his incredible achievements.”


#7770 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 22:16

just the presence of Schumacher this year has made me watch the 2010 season .... I don't give a flying rats *** of importance to F1 without Schumacher ....

Whether he finishes 1st or 24th I don't care , just as long that he's still racing I will be watching the Grand Prix's on saturday and sunday mornings ....

Here's looking at you Mikey :up: :up:

Hope you win races next year and bring Mercedes-Benz back to the top with an 8th driver's title .....

Best Ever :up:

#7771 Frans

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 22:54

I would put Petrov above Michael even ... P25 would be more realistic in that list for Schumi.

#7772 Diablobb81

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 22:55

I would put Petrov above Michael even ... P25 would be more realistic in that list for Schumi.


Not in last place? You are getting soft.

#7773 baddog

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 23:13

The Autosport ratings are just a laugh, and merely indicate how faddish and stupid reporters and media people in general can be.

I mean really.. Vettel 5th, Hamilton 1st etc etc. risible Michael 23rd is just the most obvious indicator of the silliness of the whole thing.

To all those people.. you cannot seperate man and machine, stop trying because you end up looking like an idiot.

#7774 Juan Kerr

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 01:08

What an antitalent made this???? Hahaha, i cant believe....

Schumacher P23, Kobayashi P11 but Klien which I didnt notice in the 2 races he drove are on P10 and Hamilton who crashed 5 x times and lose the Championship because of his mistakes are P1?

Funny :D


If Alonso had finished 4th would Vettel have lost the championship because of his mistakes or would he have lost the championship because Alonso managed to finish 4th ?


#7775 Muz Bee

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 01:24

I don't think Michael improve, they finally give him latest chassis 5 and he stop doing most of the testing. So with better car(equal to his team mate) he finally have time to focus on competing. Also he learn tyres.

And what testing was that? Maybe the FIA should know about this contravention of the rules! :yawnface:
So chassis 5 is better is it? Well I hadn't heard that one before from anyone in the team or Michael himself.
I'm sorry but despite the recent improved performances there are still questions which we may never really know the answers to on the relative performance of the two drivers. Certainly his fans have been making more excuses than the Great One himself.

#7776 baddog

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 01:42

And what testing was that? Maybe the FIA should know about this contravention of the rules! :yawnface:
So chassis 5 is better is it? Well I hadn't heard that one before from anyone in the team or Michael himself.
I'm sorry but despite the recent improved performances there are still questions which we may never really know the answers to on the relative performance of the two drivers. Certainly his fans have been making more excuses than the Great One himself.

No he definitely said he preferred the new chassis.

That said, he AND the team just got their heads round how to make the car work with the tyres better in the last races. no further explanation needed there. Onwards to 2011..

#7777 steveninthematrix

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:07

"the tallest tree catches the most wind"

a man wins 91 races, (spa 93? spain 96? hungary 98?), 7 wdc's, and people hate him for it?

Michael is the only driver I'm aware of on the grid, who prefers a reasonably heavily oversteering car, which he balances out with the throttle...

with 200 less HP than 06, and narrower front tires, and a car designed for smooth driving Jenson Button, this was always going to play against him.

with no testing, the entire season he did as much driving as he'd normally do in a month of testing with Ferrari in 2006;

with Merc hiring new engineers and growing the team, MS's input into the new car, and the pirelli tires perhaps being 'more aggresive', if the teams can agree to this, I'm expecting Mr Schumacher to make a big leap towards the front

Steve

Edited by steveninthematrix, 17 November 2010 - 07:08.


#7778 ivand911

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:35

And what testing was that? Maybe the FIA should know about this contravention of the rules! :yawnface:
So chassis 5 is better is it? Well I hadn't heard that one before from anyone in the team or Michael himself.
I'm sorry but despite the recent improved performances there are still questions which we may never really know the answers to on the relative performance of the two drivers. Certainly his fans have been making more excuses than the Great One himself.

Urawa translated it for you: "There´s a clear trend to see now. Since I´m using the Chassis # 5, which I´ve been waiting a long time for, the situation got much more stable.
Our aero package, our car works consistent. I´m more used to the car now and I can drive it the way it is possbile for me."
http://www.motorspor...n_10111318.html
I also see it live on RTL.


#7779 ivand911

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 14:10

Fittipaldi: Michael was three years present. He sat in a car that is not on its needs, its strengths was blown constructed. I have the race in Sao Paulo at breakfast with Ross Brawn (designer of the Mercedes) and Norbert Haug - sat together (Mercedes motorsport boss dR). 2011 is for all new cars and they have assured me that the upcoming Mercedes Michael's style is more meet. In addition, all drivers of the switch to Bridgestone Pirelli tires. Michael is thus to be at a new development from the start. This is important for a driver with his experience. He is also under some pressure to deliver a top performance. And I trust him.
http://translate.goo...-der-Beste.html

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#7780 scarletf12002

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 14:17

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but what do you think of this? I thought was interesting but nothing new in terms of criticism! This was written by MIKA HAKKINEN in his column:

Michael Schumacher is a "tragic ex-hero" who should return immediately to retirement.

That is the view of Mika Hakkinen, who was once named as the only rival the seven time world champion truly feared.

The Finn has issued a harsh critique of Schumacher in a column for the Munich newspaper TZ, despite the pair always referring to each other with the greatest of respect.

#7781 Diablobb81

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 14:31

Nice by Mika to impose his own lifeview on Michael's decisions. There is probably more to criticize about Mika's retirement than about Michael's return. :rolleyes:

http://www.tz-online...an-1009221.html

Edited by Diablobb81, 17 November 2010 - 14:32.


#7782 Scotracer

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 15:31

"the tallest tree catches the most wind"

a man wins 91 races, (spa 93? spain 96? hungary 98?), 7 wdc's, and people hate him for it?

Michael is the only driver I'm aware of on the grid, who prefers a reasonably heavily oversteering car, which he balances out with the throttle...

with 200 less HP than 06, and narrower front tires, and a car designed for smooth driving Jenson Button, this was always going to play against him.

with no testing, the entire season he did as much driving as he'd normally do in a month of testing with Ferrari in 2006;

with Merc hiring new engineers and growing the team, MS's input into the new car, and the pirelli tires perhaps being 'more aggresive', if the teams can agree to this, I'm expecting Mr Schumacher to make a big leap towards the front

Steve


You mean 200BHP less than 2005 :) In 2006 they had ~790-800BHP and now they're about 740-750BHP.



#7783 Louis Siefert

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 18:56

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34695.html

when has Mika ever linked so many words together in a sentence?

#7784 Augurk

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 18:57

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34695.html

when has Mika ever linked so many words together in a sentence?

Aye. Has to be fake. :lol:

#7785 arknor

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 19:06

Aye. Has to be fake. :lol:

yea or someone has reworded what he said just look at the video from when he was on topgear... this is not how hakkinen talks at all

#7786 steveninthematrix

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 20:57

You mean 200BHP less than 2005 :) In 2006 they had ~790-800BHP and now they're about 740-750BHP.


thanks for the correction. cant believe they're thinking about 670 :(

---

quickadd: i dont believe its an age issue or michael has lost it or anything like that... barrichello just outdrove hulkenberg... barrichello is almost as old as MS, but prefers a more neutral car (ala Ferrari 2003)

if the pirelli tires are HOPEFULLY more aggresive, and michael's input into the new car is legendary and precise... i expect a huge turn-around in 2011, with Rosberg definately coming along for the ride; Nico is very very good.

#7787 Collective

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 21:08

Those rankings are absurd. Bruno Senna is slower than ass and look at his rating!

#7788 George Costanza

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 02:02

If Schu does well next year,

Mika will sing his praises....



I mean, come on.

#7789 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 02:11

That list is a joke, really everyposition is wrong. M S is between 10 and 15 no better or worse

#7790 cheapracer

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 03:18

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but what do you think of this? I thought was interesting but nothing new in terms of criticism! This was written by MIKA HAKKINEN in his column:

Michael Schumacher is a "tragic ex-hero" who should return immediately to retirement.


If true it would be sad to see a nice guy like Mika falling into the ex-GP star come Journo who is pushed or turns to sensational stuff to get ratings. I term it "Moss'ism".


#7791 baddog

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 04:42

On driver ratings..

We can definitively say that Michael has been worse than:
Rosberg
We can say with almost total confidence that he has been worse than:
Vettel
Webber
Alonso
Hamilton (as these are drivers who appear to have driven extremely well in a situation where they could be measured against a known quantity)
Kubica (as he has appeared to drive extremely well all year on a level much like rosberg)

Regarding everyone else is is simply unfounded speculation to rank him against any of them.

Hence better not to try.


#7792 mani1

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:33

On driver ratings..

We can definitively say that Michael has been worse than:
Rosberg
We can say with almost total confidence that he has been worse than:
Vettel
Webber
Alonso
Hamilton (as these are drivers who appear to have driven extremely well in a situation where they could be measured against a known quantity)
Kubica (as he has appeared to drive extremely well all year on a level much like rosberg)

Regarding everyone else is is simply unfounded speculation to rank him against any of them.

Hence better not to try.


What a stupid comparison.

It makes no sense whatsoever comparing Schumacher to VET/WEB/HAM/ALO because they all had competitive cars.

Yes it only makes sense to compare MSC with ROS but here think realistically and rationally. MSC came back after a gap of 3 years. Keeping this in mind, his performance compared to ROS has been pretty decent.

2011 would be true test of MSC if he still has it. In the meanwhile any and all comparisons do not account for sh**

#7793 baddog

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:13

What a stupid comparison.

It makes no sense whatsoever comparing Schumacher to VET/WEB/HAM/ALO because they all had competitive cars.

Yes it only makes sense to compare MSC with ROS but here think realistically and rationally. MSC came back after a gap of 3 years. Keeping this in mind, his performance compared to ROS has been pretty decent.

2011 would be true test of MSC if he still has it. In the meanwhile any and all comparisons do not account for sh**

I think you may be missing my point and wildly misunderstanding my point of view. Ive been arguing against ANY kind of attempt to make these kind of rankings in these threads for a long time.. but Im saying that even if you were to insist on doing so, the very worst place you could honestly come up with for him would be behind those drivers.. to put him behind even more is just stupid. Noone knows, not even his own team when it comes down to it. He has been the better Driver in the team for perhaps 1/3 of the season, which makes him the lesser for 2/3, which is getting beaten. However I predict things next year being very different indeed, as you evidently do too.

I actually DO think that the evidence of Alonso, Webber, Hamilton and Vettel being better this year is very strong regardless of team however... They have been consistent, quick and clearly understood their tyres better, and in 2 cases given a paddling to a very fine teammate. Kubica? Maybe Im reaching on that one, but either he has been flattering that car all year of petrov is appalling.

#7794 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:33

When do the Abu Dhabi tests start?

#7795 Spa95

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:38

When do the Abu Dhabi tests start?

Tomorrow, with Rosberg - and Schumacher on saturday.

Edited by Spa95, 18 November 2010 - 10:38.


#7796 SEP

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 13:03

What a stupid comparison.

It makes no sense whatsoever comparing Schumacher to VET/WEB/HAM/ALO because they all had competitive cars.

Yes it only makes sense to compare MSC with ROS but here think realistically and rationally. MSC came back after a gap of 3 years. Keeping this in mind, his performance compared to ROS has been pretty decent.

2011 would be true test of MSC if he still has it. In the meanwhile any and all comparisons do not account for sh**


What if Nico beats Michael again in 2011? Dos it mean Michael "doesn´t have it" anymore?

Michael still has it. At least 50% of "it". He will work hard, harder than other drivers and Mercedes GP will be a title contender. This is where Michael was far superior and i beleive he is still is. Period.

Build an enviroment were the team favours him and sacrifice his teamate, as much as Benetton and Ferrari did, represents the other 50%. Not sure if he can and in this case, he will be in a close fight with Nico as they have similar skills.

Edited by SEP, 18 November 2010 - 13:03.


#7797 SchumiP1

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:16

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34695.html

when has Mika ever linked so many words together in a sentence?

Yeah, the "we're not friends" doesn't sound anything like Hakkinen.

#7798 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:28

What if Nico beats Michael again in 2011? Dos it mean Michael "doesn´t have it" anymore?

Michael still has it. At least 50% of "it". He will work hard, harder than other drivers and Mercedes GP will be a title contender. This is where Michael was far superior and i beleive he is still is. Period.

Build an enviroment were the team favours him and sacrifice his teamate, as much as Benetton and Ferrari did, represents the other 50%. Not sure if he can and in this case, he will be in a close fight with Nico as they have similar skills.



It's not just skills on the track where Schumacher excelled. He was a TEAM BUILDER, loyal, hard working, incredibly fit, motivated his team and wasn't afraid of hard work; such as testing for days on end. That's where his qualities overshadowed others.

Rubens matched him plenty of times in terms of speed but he never took it to that extra level that Schumacher did.

#7799 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:06

Todt acknowledged that he had played a part in creating the team orders controversy during his time at Ferrari, when Rubens Barrichello famously pulled over within sight of the line at Zeltweg in 2002 to hand the win to team-mate Michael Schumacher.

Asked by La Stampa if he regretted that incident, Todt replied: "I do, because with hindsight it could have been avoided: Schumacher would have won the championship anyway. However, I would have had more regrets had I lost the title for a couple of points."

He felt Barrichello's handling of the situation had inflamed the problem.

"I shouldn't have needed to tell him anything," Todt said. "We had agreed earlier: 'if you're ahead after the pitstop, you must let Schumacher through with no fuss.'"

"He agreed: besides, a driver is paid to accept certain decisions. Instead, he would stay ahead. I called him 50 times and I repeated it clearly. He moved over at the last turn, the public whistled, Schumi gave him the top spot at the podium ceremony, and Ferrari was fined for infringing the protocol: 500,000 dollars."

from autosport article

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#7800 Spa95

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:54

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34695.html

when has Mika ever linked so many words together in a sentence?

http://translate.goo...=...l=&ie=UTF-8