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#7751 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 22:16

just the presence of Schumacher this year has made me watch the 2010 season .... I don't give a flying rats *** of importance to F1 without Schumacher ....

Whether he finishes 1st or 24th I don't care , just as long that he's still racing I will be watching the Grand Prix's on saturday and sunday mornings ....

Here's looking at you Mikey :up: :up:

Hope you win races next year and bring Mercedes-Benz back to the top with an 8th driver's title .....

Best Ever :up:

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#7752 Frans

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 22:54

I would put Petrov above Michael even ... P25 would be more realistic in that list for Schumi.

#7753 Diablobb81

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 22:55

I would put Petrov above Michael even ... P25 would be more realistic in that list for Schumi.


Not in last place? You are getting soft.

#7754 baddog

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 23:13

The Autosport ratings are just a laugh, and merely indicate how faddish and stupid reporters and media people in general can be.

I mean really.. Vettel 5th, Hamilton 1st etc etc. risible Michael 23rd is just the most obvious indicator of the silliness of the whole thing.

To all those people.. you cannot seperate man and machine, stop trying because you end up looking like an idiot.

#7755 Juan Kerr

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 01:08

What an antitalent made this???? Hahaha, i cant believe....

Schumacher P23, Kobayashi P11 but Klien which I didnt notice in the 2 races he drove are on P10 and Hamilton who crashed 5 x times and lose the Championship because of his mistakes are P1?

Funny :D


If Alonso had finished 4th would Vettel have lost the championship because of his mistakes or would he have lost the championship because Alonso managed to finish 4th ?


#7756 Muz Bee

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 01:24

I don't think Michael improve, they finally give him latest chassis 5 and he stop doing most of the testing. So with better car(equal to his team mate) he finally have time to focus on competing. Also he learn tyres.

And what testing was that? Maybe the FIA should know about this contravention of the rules! :yawnface:
So chassis 5 is better is it? Well I hadn't heard that one before from anyone in the team or Michael himself.
I'm sorry but despite the recent improved performances there are still questions which we may never really know the answers to on the relative performance of the two drivers. Certainly his fans have been making more excuses than the Great One himself.

#7757 baddog

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 01:42

And what testing was that? Maybe the FIA should know about this contravention of the rules! :yawnface:
So chassis 5 is better is it? Well I hadn't heard that one before from anyone in the team or Michael himself.
I'm sorry but despite the recent improved performances there are still questions which we may never really know the answers to on the relative performance of the two drivers. Certainly his fans have been making more excuses than the Great One himself.

No he definitely said he preferred the new chassis.

That said, he AND the team just got their heads round how to make the car work with the tyres better in the last races. no further explanation needed there. Onwards to 2011..

#7758 steveninthematrix

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:07

"the tallest tree catches the most wind"

a man wins 91 races, (spa 93? spain 96? hungary 98?), 7 wdc's, and people hate him for it?

Michael is the only driver I'm aware of on the grid, who prefers a reasonably heavily oversteering car, which he balances out with the throttle...

with 200 less HP than 06, and narrower front tires, and a car designed for smooth driving Jenson Button, this was always going to play against him.

with no testing, the entire season he did as much driving as he'd normally do in a month of testing with Ferrari in 2006;

with Merc hiring new engineers and growing the team, MS's input into the new car, and the pirelli tires perhaps being 'more aggresive', if the teams can agree to this, I'm expecting Mr Schumacher to make a big leap towards the front

Steve

Edited by steveninthematrix, 17 November 2010 - 07:08.


#7759 ivand911

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:35

And what testing was that? Maybe the FIA should know about this contravention of the rules! :yawnface:
So chassis 5 is better is it? Well I hadn't heard that one before from anyone in the team or Michael himself.
I'm sorry but despite the recent improved performances there are still questions which we may never really know the answers to on the relative performance of the two drivers. Certainly his fans have been making more excuses than the Great One himself.

Urawa translated it for you: "There´s a clear trend to see now. Since I´m using the Chassis # 5, which I´ve been waiting a long time for, the situation got much more stable.
Our aero package, our car works consistent. I´m more used to the car now and I can drive it the way it is possbile for me."
http://www.motorspor...n_10111318.html
I also see it live on RTL.


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#7760 ivand911

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 14:10

Fittipaldi: Michael was three years present. He sat in a car that is not on its needs, its strengths was blown constructed. I have the race in Sao Paulo at breakfast with Ross Brawn (designer of the Mercedes) and Norbert Haug - sat together (Mercedes motorsport boss dR). 2011 is for all new cars and they have assured me that the upcoming Mercedes Michael's style is more meet. In addition, all drivers of the switch to Bridgestone Pirelli tires. Michael is thus to be at a new development from the start. This is important for a driver with his experience. He is also under some pressure to deliver a top performance. And I trust him.
http://translate.goo...-der-Beste.html

#7761 scarletf12002

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 14:17

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but what do you think of this? I thought was interesting but nothing new in terms of criticism! This was written by MIKA HAKKINEN in his column:

Michael Schumacher is a "tragic ex-hero" who should return immediately to retirement.

That is the view of Mika Hakkinen, who was once named as the only rival the seven time world champion truly feared.

The Finn has issued a harsh critique of Schumacher in a column for the Munich newspaper TZ, despite the pair always referring to each other with the greatest of respect.

#7762 Diablobb81

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 14:31

Nice by Mika to impose his own lifeview on Michael's decisions. There is probably more to criticize about Mika's retirement than about Michael's return. :rolleyes:

http://www.tz-online...an-1009221.html

Edited by Diablobb81, 17 November 2010 - 14:32.


#7763 Scotracer

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 15:31

"the tallest tree catches the most wind"

a man wins 91 races, (spa 93? spain 96? hungary 98?), 7 wdc's, and people hate him for it?

Michael is the only driver I'm aware of on the grid, who prefers a reasonably heavily oversteering car, which he balances out with the throttle...

with 200 less HP than 06, and narrower front tires, and a car designed for smooth driving Jenson Button, this was always going to play against him.

with no testing, the entire season he did as much driving as he'd normally do in a month of testing with Ferrari in 2006;

with Merc hiring new engineers and growing the team, MS's input into the new car, and the pirelli tires perhaps being 'more aggresive', if the teams can agree to this, I'm expecting Mr Schumacher to make a big leap towards the front

Steve


You mean 200BHP less than 2005 :) In 2006 they had ~790-800BHP and now they're about 740-750BHP.



#7764 Louis Siefert

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 18:56

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34695.html

when has Mika ever linked so many words together in a sentence?

#7765 Augurk

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 18:57

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34695.html

when has Mika ever linked so many words together in a sentence?

Aye. Has to be fake. :lol:

#7766 arknor

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 19:06

Aye. Has to be fake. :lol:

yea or someone has reworded what he said just look at the video from when he was on topgear... this is not how hakkinen talks at all

#7767 steveninthematrix

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 20:57

You mean 200BHP less than 2005 :) In 2006 they had ~790-800BHP and now they're about 740-750BHP.


thanks for the correction. cant believe they're thinking about 670 :(

---

quickadd: i dont believe its an age issue or michael has lost it or anything like that... barrichello just outdrove hulkenberg... barrichello is almost as old as MS, but prefers a more neutral car (ala Ferrari 2003)

if the pirelli tires are HOPEFULLY more aggresive, and michael's input into the new car is legendary and precise... i expect a huge turn-around in 2011, with Rosberg definately coming along for the ride; Nico is very very good.

#7768 Collective

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 21:08

Those rankings are absurd. Bruno Senna is slower than ass and look at his rating!

#7769 George Costanza

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 02:02

If Schu does well next year,

Mika will sing his praises....



I mean, come on.

#7770 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 02:11

That list is a joke, really everyposition is wrong. M S is between 10 and 15 no better or worse

#7771 cheapracer

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 03:18

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but what do you think of this? I thought was interesting but nothing new in terms of criticism! This was written by MIKA HAKKINEN in his column:

Michael Schumacher is a "tragic ex-hero" who should return immediately to retirement.


If true it would be sad to see a nice guy like Mika falling into the ex-GP star come Journo who is pushed or turns to sensational stuff to get ratings. I term it "Moss'ism".


#7772 baddog

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 04:42

On driver ratings..

We can definitively say that Michael has been worse than:
Rosberg
We can say with almost total confidence that he has been worse than:
Vettel
Webber
Alonso
Hamilton (as these are drivers who appear to have driven extremely well in a situation where they could be measured against a known quantity)
Kubica (as he has appeared to drive extremely well all year on a level much like rosberg)

Regarding everyone else is is simply unfounded speculation to rank him against any of them.

Hence better not to try.


#7773 mani1

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:33

On driver ratings..

We can definitively say that Michael has been worse than:
Rosberg
We can say with almost total confidence that he has been worse than:
Vettel
Webber
Alonso
Hamilton (as these are drivers who appear to have driven extremely well in a situation where they could be measured against a known quantity)
Kubica (as he has appeared to drive extremely well all year on a level much like rosberg)

Regarding everyone else is is simply unfounded speculation to rank him against any of them.

Hence better not to try.


What a stupid comparison.

It makes no sense whatsoever comparing Schumacher to VET/WEB/HAM/ALO because they all had competitive cars.

Yes it only makes sense to compare MSC with ROS but here think realistically and rationally. MSC came back after a gap of 3 years. Keeping this in mind, his performance compared to ROS has been pretty decent.

2011 would be true test of MSC if he still has it. In the meanwhile any and all comparisons do not account for sh**

#7774 baddog

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:13

What a stupid comparison.

It makes no sense whatsoever comparing Schumacher to VET/WEB/HAM/ALO because they all had competitive cars.

Yes it only makes sense to compare MSC with ROS but here think realistically and rationally. MSC came back after a gap of 3 years. Keeping this in mind, his performance compared to ROS has been pretty decent.

2011 would be true test of MSC if he still has it. In the meanwhile any and all comparisons do not account for sh**

I think you may be missing my point and wildly misunderstanding my point of view. Ive been arguing against ANY kind of attempt to make these kind of rankings in these threads for a long time.. but Im saying that even if you were to insist on doing so, the very worst place you could honestly come up with for him would be behind those drivers.. to put him behind even more is just stupid. Noone knows, not even his own team when it comes down to it. He has been the better Driver in the team for perhaps 1/3 of the season, which makes him the lesser for 2/3, which is getting beaten. However I predict things next year being very different indeed, as you evidently do too.

I actually DO think that the evidence of Alonso, Webber, Hamilton and Vettel being better this year is very strong regardless of team however... They have been consistent, quick and clearly understood their tyres better, and in 2 cases given a paddling to a very fine teammate. Kubica? Maybe Im reaching on that one, but either he has been flattering that car all year of petrov is appalling.

#7775 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:33

When do the Abu Dhabi tests start?

#7776 Spa95

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:38

When do the Abu Dhabi tests start?

Tomorrow, with Rosberg - and Schumacher on saturday.

Edited by Spa95, 18 November 2010 - 10:38.


#7777 SEP

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 13:03

What a stupid comparison.

It makes no sense whatsoever comparing Schumacher to VET/WEB/HAM/ALO because they all had competitive cars.

Yes it only makes sense to compare MSC with ROS but here think realistically and rationally. MSC came back after a gap of 3 years. Keeping this in mind, his performance compared to ROS has been pretty decent.

2011 would be true test of MSC if he still has it. In the meanwhile any and all comparisons do not account for sh**


What if Nico beats Michael again in 2011? Dos it mean Michael "doesn´t have it" anymore?

Michael still has it. At least 50% of "it". He will work hard, harder than other drivers and Mercedes GP will be a title contender. This is where Michael was far superior and i beleive he is still is. Period.

Build an enviroment were the team favours him and sacrifice his teamate, as much as Benetton and Ferrari did, represents the other 50%. Not sure if he can and in this case, he will be in a close fight with Nico as they have similar skills.

Edited by SEP, 18 November 2010 - 13:03.


#7778 SchumiP1

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:16

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34695.html

when has Mika ever linked so many words together in a sentence?

Yeah, the "we're not friends" doesn't sound anything like Hakkinen.

#7779 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:28

What if Nico beats Michael again in 2011? Dos it mean Michael "doesn´t have it" anymore?

Michael still has it. At least 50% of "it". He will work hard, harder than other drivers and Mercedes GP will be a title contender. This is where Michael was far superior and i beleive he is still is. Period.

Build an enviroment were the team favours him and sacrifice his teamate, as much as Benetton and Ferrari did, represents the other 50%. Not sure if he can and in this case, he will be in a close fight with Nico as they have similar skills.



It's not just skills on the track where Schumacher excelled. He was a TEAM BUILDER, loyal, hard working, incredibly fit, motivated his team and wasn't afraid of hard work; such as testing for days on end. That's where his qualities overshadowed others.

Rubens matched him plenty of times in terms of speed but he never took it to that extra level that Schumacher did.

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#7780 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:06

Todt acknowledged that he had played a part in creating the team orders controversy during his time at Ferrari, when Rubens Barrichello famously pulled over within sight of the line at Zeltweg in 2002 to hand the win to team-mate Michael Schumacher.

Asked by La Stampa if he regretted that incident, Todt replied: "I do, because with hindsight it could have been avoided: Schumacher would have won the championship anyway. However, I would have had more regrets had I lost the title for a couple of points."

He felt Barrichello's handling of the situation had inflamed the problem.

"I shouldn't have needed to tell him anything," Todt said. "We had agreed earlier: 'if you're ahead after the pitstop, you must let Schumacher through with no fuss.'"

"He agreed: besides, a driver is paid to accept certain decisions. Instead, he would stay ahead. I called him 50 times and I repeated it clearly. He moved over at the last turn, the public whistled, Schumi gave him the top spot at the podium ceremony, and Ferrari was fined for infringing the protocol: 500,000 dollars."

from autosport article

#7781 Spa95

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:54

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34695.html

when has Mika ever linked so many words together in a sentence?

http://translate.goo...=...l=&ie=UTF-8

#7782 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 18:54

nothing new in that, was always obvious that the whole fuss was created by Barichello himself. That is why they don't like him at Ferrari. He just didn't keep his word, adn never stopped whining ever since.

#7783 Diablobb81

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 19:38

Well the whole " we were never friends" thing was very, very strange but i didn't expect that the paper would simply invent an article supposedly written by Mika. Bah...

#7784 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 08:09

Newspapers sometimes have a habit of 'inventing' quotes and stories, then sitting back and revelling in their handiwork when friendships are destroyed and lives turned upside down.

#7785 Raelene

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:52

Mika didn't say that. The newspaper has apologised and will no longer work with reporter

#7786 Raelene

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:57

Mika Hakkinen has denied calling Michael Schumacher a 'tragic ex-hero' after the newspaper attributing the comments to him apologised.

This week, the Finn was quoted by Munich newspaper TZ as saying Michael Schumacher had made "a ridiculous mistake" at the start of the recent Abu Dhabi Grand Prix and should retire immediately.

TZ has now issued an apology and correction, admitting that the column had not been authorised by double world champion Hakkinen.

"The statements attributed to Mr Hakkinen, particularly in relation to Michael Schumacher, were not true and were not authorised. We regret this and apologise to our readers, to Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher, and as a consequence we are no longer working with the staff member concerned."

#7787 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:25

Shocker.

#7788 Wheels23

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:32

Newspapers sometimes have a habit of 'inventing' quotes and stories, then sitting back and revelling in their handiwork when friendships are destroyed and lives turned upside down.


They do what needs to catch their market's attention and more readers equals more market share. So misquoting is common and that's why you rarely take the media seriously when it comes to sport.

Well I hope Michael does well next year. He is has that mentally in an athlete that I love, 'take no prisoners' approach even though I can see where people really don't like that approach.

#7789 as65p

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 16:18

From the frontpage:

Mercedes had struggled to adapt to the performance of the front Bridgestones this season, and this issue cited as a major factor in Michael Schumacher's disappointing comeback.

Asked by AUTOSPORT how the feeling from the Pirellis compared, Rosberg replied: "It's worse."

He explained that the front tyre felt 'weaker' than the Bridgestone had been.

"So that's not a good thing for me. I'll cope with it - I've adapted in the past years so I'll manage," said Rosberg. "They are at least similar [to the Bridgestones] or worse."


So, will MS announce his 2nd retirement before or after christmas, and who will get the seat alongside Rosberg?

#7790 George Costanza

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 16:23

Well, of course it's gonna be worse.... Pirelli needs more time, obviously.

#7791 arknor

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 16:33

Well, of course it's gonna be worse.... Pirelli needs more time, obviously.

and car had a wrong weight distribution and probably even wronger for these tyres..

the grip could be fine on the new car and the tyres will probably change alot

#7792 merschu

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 17:27

James Allen says:

Many reported that the front tyres were more positive in braking and turn in than this year’s Bridgestones which is likely to be good news for drivers like Michael Schumacher and Felipe Massa who struggled with that this year. I imagine both of them are feeling quite relieved tonight, although Schumacher has yet to try them as it was Rosberg’s turn today. Rosberg wasn’t as positive about the tyres as others, telling Autosport that he felt the tyres were “weaker” than the Bridgestones.


And Ross Brawn said:

“Whilst a lot of details remain to be understood, we feel that we have gained an initial understanding of the operational requirements of the two compounds that we have and have highlighted some important areas for investigation and improvement,” said Mercedes boss Ross Brawn. ” We have been lucky to have been able to get exposure to the Pirelli tyres at a track with which we are now very familiar and in conditions that we will not experience again until the final test of the season in Bahrain. Michael watched today’s proceedings with great interest and is looking forward to experiencing the tyres for himself tomorrow.”


http://www.jamesalle...positive-start/

Edited by merschu, 19 November 2010 - 17:28.


#7793 as65p

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 17:33

Well, of course it's gonna be worse.... Pirelli needs more time, obviously.


Obviously. Still, it appears from Rosbergs comments that the basic characteristics of the front tyre aren't that different to the Bridgestones.

And I think Pirelli will spend their time maximizing durability and above all safety, instead of changing that base characteristics to suit a particular group of drivers.

#7794 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 17:34

There could be a role reversal at Mercedes in 2011. Maybe.

Or maybe Rosberg is playing mindgames already.....

#7795 BRK

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 17:47

That Mika story is hilarious stuff,amazed anyone-even a retard-would go to that extent to make a story up.


As for the Pirellis: all today's running suggested is Rosberg+W01+Pirelli = same old understeering wreck. Massa's style is more similar to Michael's,so it shouldn't be that bad..

#7796 RedBaron

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 18:03

Or maybe Rosberg is playing mindgames already.....


I thought that too, especially after seeing all the other drivers opinions of the tyres. As well as seeing Massa topping the time sheets (just testing I know, but combined with the other drivers comments...)

Edit: Then again we get the idea that Mercedes is a real dog... so maybe we can't concluded anything until they run their 2011 car. Which we have our fingers crossed for.

Edited by RedBaron, 19 November 2010 - 18:04.


#7797 ivand911

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 19:26

Tomorrow is important day, hope Michael will have something positive to say after the test.

#7798 SEP

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:12

That Mika story is hilarious stuff,amazed anyone-even a retard-would go to that extent to make a story up.


As for the Pirellis: all today's running suggested is Rosberg+W01+Pirelli = same old understeering wreck. Massa's style is more similar to Michael's,so it shouldn't be that bad..



:up:

Although i am neither a Massa or Michael´s fan, your observation is the main or the only concrete thing thus far.

#7799 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 05:11

I wonder whose feedback the team will listen to, assuming they both have different perspectives on the Pirellis;

The 7 time WDC or the 4 time podium achiever.

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#7800 cheapracer

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 07:39

I thought that too, especially after seeing all the other drivers opinions of the tyres. As well as seeing Massa topping the time sheets (just testing I know, but combined with the other drivers comments...)

Edit: Then again we get the idea that Mercedes is a real dog... so maybe we can't concluded anything until they run their 2011 car. Which we have our fingers crossed for.



From the James Allen web ... http://www.jamesalle...positive-start/

Many reported that the front tyres were more positive in braking and turn in than this year’s Bridgestones which is likely to be good news for drivers like Michael Schumacher and Felipe Massa who struggled with that this year.