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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#7851 Craven Morehead

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:13

I've enjoyed Michael's comeback.

Yes, he hasn't set the world on fire, but so what? It's clear that he is really enjoying himself, everytime the camera finds him he is smiling. Did you see him walking back with Liuzzi after their wreck in Abu Dhabi? Michael is there purely because he loves it, and that is the best reason of all.

Hope he goes well next year. :)


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#7852 RedBaron

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 08:59

For anyone who noticed or remembers... I just remembered I had £100 on Schumacher to win the title this year. I didn't win.

#7853 aditya-now

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:18

Still, I expected his 3 year come back to be a 1 year swansong when it was announced. Even more so a third of the way into the season. That he'll be back next season and seemingly in with a chance of beating his team mate: good going, I reckon.


Yes, Cobblers is much better than all of us have expected by mid-season! ;)


#7854 cheapracer

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:52

For anyone who noticed or remembers... I just remembered I had £100 on Schumacher to win the title this year. I didn't win.


I'm waiting.

Paypal ok?


#7855 SpeedyS

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:55

Well, one season in for Michael and here's my perspective.

First up, I was a huge Schumacher fan during his first stint in the sport. Unlike a lot of his fans (judging from this thread), since he left I have moved on to another driver. Sorry Michael, you were gone that long that like Helen Hunt in Castaway I'd gone and married the dentist and whilst I've still got a huge soft spot for you I've gone and had a kid (WDC) with that dentist whilst you were gone and I can't give up on that. Rubbish, huh? At least you had the volleyball.

In short hand: mark me down as wanting Schumacher to succed second time round but not being nearly as emotionally invested in it as before. I enjoyed it first time round hugely, and nothing that happened second time round could spoil that. So a relatively dispassionate but definitely friendly/kind observer.

So how did he do? It looked bad the first half of the season. Grim. China was the point that, to me, I realised there was no way we were getting the old Schumi back this time around. If he couldn't conjour even a little bit of magic in those conditions, where he used to excel, the magic was probably gone. The season continued and it carried on looking bleak.

Then things seemed to pick up. He got on or close to Nico's level, even driving better than him on some occasions. He no longer looked like someone in F1 on 70% reputation, 30% talent: he looked like someone who deserved his place there whether he was called Schumacher or Cobblers. And he's ended the season like that.

To me, 2010 has only added to the Schumacher legend. How many drivers could, in the modern era, take 3 years out of the sport (not just out of F1; out of single seat racing), come back at 40+ and be sufficiently competitive to say "this guy deserves his spot on the grid on performance alone"? I am sure to many of Michael's fans, I'm underplaying his season. I am sure to may of his detractors, saying his achievement this year is to "deserve his spot on the grid on performance alone" is damning him with faint praise and it's been a disaster of a season for him. To me, it's a realistic assesment of how he's done relative to where you might hope for a bloke of his age, with his time out, to get to.

That he'll go in to 2011 in with a genuine shout of taking it to Nico and, perhaps, coming out on top is impressive to me. We'll see how it goes. Was the latter third of 2010 really Schumacher finding his feet again in the sport or was it just a fluke? Will changes in the tyres be helpful to him or is blaming 2010 issues on the 2010 Bridgestones just excuse making? We'll find out, I guess.

Still, I expected his 3 year come back to be a 1 year swansong when it was announced. Even more so a third of the way into the season. That he'll be back next season and seemingly in with a chance of beating his team mate: good going, I reckon.


:up:

#7856 Raelene

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 03:22

Jenson Button on BBC Q+A

Who is the greatest sportsman of all time?
That's also a tough one because there are so many great sportsmen and sportswomen in their respective disciplines.

I would have to say that Michael Schumacher's dedication to the sport has shown that he is both talented and willing to give everything to be the best.

I'll also say Lance Armstrong because of how many times he has won the Tour de France.


#7857 ivand911

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 14:51

Schumacher 2010
http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded
Sure he will be fine.

#7858 pUs

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 15:13

he has won 7 WDC and came pretty close to winning other 2


Three, I'd say he came close in 97, 98, 06.. :)

#7859 SeanValen

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 15:16

Well, one season in for Michael and here's my perspective.

First up, I was a huge Schumacher fan during his first stint in the sport. Unlike a lot of his fans (judging from this thread), since he left I have moved on to another driver. Sorry Michael, you were gone that long that like Helen Hunt in Castaway I'd gone and married the dentist and whilst I've still got a huge soft spot for you I've gone and had a kid (WDC) with that dentist whilst you were gone and I can't give up on that. Rubbish, huh? At least you had the volleyball.

In short hand: mark me down as wanting Schumacher to succed second time round but not being nearly as emotionally invested in it as before. I enjoyed it first time round hugely, and nothing that happened second time round could spoil that. So a relatively dispassionate but definitely friendly/kind observer.

So how did he do? It looked bad the first half of the season. Grim. China was the point that, to me, I realised there was no way we were getting the old Schumi back this time around. If he couldn't conjour even a little bit of magic in those conditions, where he used to excel, the magic was probably gone. The season continued and it carried on looking bleak.

Then things seemed to pick up. He got on or close to Nico's level, even driving better than him on some occasions. He no longer looked like someone in F1 on 70% reputation, 30% talent: he looked like someone who deserved his place there whether he was called Schumacher or Cobblers. And he's ended the season like that.

To me, 2010 has only added to the Schumacher legend. How many drivers could, in the modern era, take 3 years out of the sport (not just out of F1; out of single seat racing), come back at 40+ and be sufficiently competitive to say "this guy deserves his spot on the grid on performance alone"? I am sure to many of Michael's fans, I'm underplaying his season. I am sure to may of his detractors, saying his achievement this year is to "deserve his spot on the grid on performance alone" is damning him with faint praise and it's been a disaster of a season for him. To me, it's a realistic assesment of how he's done relative to where you might hope for a bloke of his age, with his time out, to get to.

That he'll go in to 2011 in with a genuine shout of taking it to Nico and, perhaps, coming out on top is impressive to me. We'll see how it goes. Was the latter third of 2010 really Schumacher finding his feet again in the sport or was it just a fluke? Will changes in the tyres be helpful to him or is blaming 2010 issues on the 2010 Bridgestones just excuse making? We'll find out, I guess.

Still, I expected his 3 year come back to be a 1 year swansong when it was announced. Even more so a third of the way into the season. That he'll be back next season and seemingly in with a chance of beating his team mate: good going, I reckon.


:up:

I just like to add, even with the car issues, not understanding tyres and generally not being able to get set up solutions in a difficult season return with no testing, that Michael was still able to put in for the car he was in, a good standard of performance at tracks like Monaco, Spain, Spa, Turkey and Suzuka showed that whatever bad things happened to him in 2010 in other gps, to be able to do performances that were actually some of his best in a year on the more important tracks for driver talent wihatever the rules/cars/tyres/, showed not all is lost. If he didn't perform like he did on those tracks, I think his season would of been very bad and I would have had proper doubts, but that didn't happen.

I also think his starts generally, one lap moving and weaving thru the field/making positions/reactions were the best of anyone on lap 1 this year, it's not bad for the older guy on the grid, it's not a big prize, but shows he's on it very early, of cource his last race was his worst lap of the year on the first lap by a huge margin, but overall his whole season showed good racing grit even in times of performance issues.

Edited by SeanValen, 25 November 2010 - 15:21.


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#7860 vovelo

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 15:21

:up:

I just like to add, even with the car issues, not understanding tyres and generally not being able to get set up solutions in a difficult season return with no testing, that Michael was still able to put in for the car he was in, a good standard of performance at tracks like Monaco, Spain, Spa, Turkey and Suzuka showed that whatever bad things happened to him in 2010 in other gps, to be able to do performances that were actually some of his best in a year on the more important tracks for driver talent wihatever the rules/cars/tyres/, showed not all is lost. If he didn't perform like he did on those tracks, I think his season would of been very bad and I would have had proper doubts, but that didn't happen.

I also think his starts generally, one lap moving and weaving thru the field/making positions/reactions were the best of anyone on lap 1 this year, it's not bad for the older guy on the grid, it's not a big prize, but shows he's on it very early, of cource his last race was his worst lap of the year on the first lap by a huge margin, but overall his whole season showed good racing grit even in times of performance issues.

I agree with you . But Don't forget about Spa track :) This season Michael was very good there too :)

Edited by vovelo, 25 November 2010 - 15:22.


#7861 ivand911

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 15:22

Three, I'd say he came close in 97, 98, 06.. :)

Four, 99 was his if he didn't broke his legs. It would be like walking in the park. In 99 even Irvine have chance.


#7862 KiloWatt

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 15:33

Schumacher 2010
http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded
Sure he will be fine.


Nice find! Thanks for sharing
:up:

#7863 SeanValen

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 15:44

I agree with you . But Don't forget about Spa track :) This season Michael was very good there too :)



Re-read my post, I menstioned Spa. Spa and MS is like wine with a cork on it. It's almost one entity.


Nice find! Thanks for sharing
:up:


Always good to see Brundle changing his tunes.

Edited by SeanValen, 25 November 2010 - 15:46.


#7864 ivand911

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 15:50

Testing kilometres 2000 and 2001 by all F1 drivers:
http://img44.imagesh...8355/testcl.jpg
http://img44.imagesh...8726/testal.jpg
Test Fiorano 10/12.03.2000:
http://img44.imagesh...583/testmdj.jpg
Test Fiorano 8/10.06.2000:
http://img832.images...7702/testvx.jpg
Test Fiorano 17/24.07.2000:
http://img641.images...4859/testwv.jpg
Test Mugello 18/20.07.2000:
http://img832.images...3470/testyr.jpg

"FERRARI: TESTING ON TWO FRONTS – (2nd – 92 points)
Ferrari began testing on Monday with Luca Baoder at Fiorano, concentrating on
aerodynamics and engine work while Rubens Barrichello was out at Mugello. Although the
Brazilian was delayed by two routine engine changes he managed on Wednesday to post a
new fastest time of 1m 24.657s for the Ferrari F1-2000. Ferrari will be fielding a brand new
aerodynamic package at Hockenheim and possibly a new, more powerful qualifying engine.
Meanwhile Michael Schumacher went to Fiorano on Thursday where he validated data tests
and results as well as carrying out component tests and eight starts."
Source: http://forum.f1news....c...18&st=37000

I hear a lot of myths about Michael doing endless testing ,when all others didn't , including his team mate? But, it seems this is only rumours and nothing back them? At least Rubens was doing good share of testing. Badoer also.



#7865 BRK

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 15:58

Some great posts on here of late,looks like I could pop in here a bit more often during MS' first off-season in four years: look peaceful at the moment.

#7866 RedBaron

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 16:29

I'm waiting.

Paypal ok?



ha... the bet was with a betfair.com, not people on this forum.

#7867 vovelo

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 13:24

Re-read my post, I menstioned Spa. Spa and MS is like wine with a cork on it. It's almost one entity.

yeah my mistake :wave:


#7868 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 17:36

I dont want to start a *new* thread becuase we can debate it here , but if Schumacher is successful in 2011 , will that change some nay-sayers point of view of him ?

Will his 2010 season be seen as a one-off if he manages to get podiums, race wins and out-race Rosberg (frequently) in 2011 ??

I don't find it fair that Jackie Stewart gives MS an ultimatum when he says Schumacher HAS to win the title in 2011 or else he will be leaving F1 with with his tail in between his legs ... :down:

Now all depends on the car of course... If Benz is again a mid-field car at best next year without any improvement I don't see Schumacher wasting his time in F1 in 2012 .....

#7869 Szoelloe

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 18:13

I dont want to start a *new* thread becuase we can debate it here , but if Schumacher is successful in 2011 , will that change some nay-sayers point of view of him ?


you know perfectly well that it will not.

#7870 SEP

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 19:19

Four, 99 was his if he didn't broke his legs. It would be like walking in the park. In 99 even Irvine have chance.



In 1994 even Damon Hill had a chance, so we can say Michael would not have won that one at all.

#7871 Szoelloe

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 19:23

In 1994 even Damon Hill had a chance, so we can say Michael would not have won that one at all.



:eek: :eek: :eek:

#7872 SEP

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 19:26

I dont want to start a *new* thread becuase we can debate it here , but if Schumacher is successful in 2011 , will that change some nay-sayers point of view of him ?

Will his 2010 season be seen as a one-off if he manages to get podiums, race wins and out-race Rosberg (frequently) in 2011 ??

I don't find it fair that Jackie Stewart gives MS an ultimatum when he says Schumacher HAS to win the title in 2011 or else he will be leaving F1 with with his tail in between his legs ... :down:

Now all depends on the car of course... If Benz is again a mid-field car at best next year without any improvement I don't see Schumacher wasting his time in F1 in 2012 .....



IF Nico beats Michael AGAIN in terms of performance, like he did this year, will you change your opinion on Michael? You will accept that Michael is the most overrated driver in history? Michael at his peak was a good driver, much like Nico is.

Do you realize that Rubens is 39 years old and is performing in a very mucch higher level than Michael so this "old dude" excuse is BS?




#7873 Szoelloe

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 19:35

IF Nico beats Michael AGAIN in terms of performance, like he did this year, will you change your opinion on Michael? You will accept that Michael is the most overrated driver in history? Michael at his peak was a good driver, much like Nico is.

Do you realize that Rubens is 39 years old and is performing in a very mucch higher level than Michael so this "old dude" excuse is BS?


LOL permit me to quote myself:

you know perfectly well that I(we) will not.

but I certainly understand that you had a feast this season, it even may be possible you will have one next year too. In a way, you deserve it: you had more than a decade of suckouts. But that is exactly why I(we) am not changing my opinion. That decade with 7 titles. The guy has nothing to prove to me certainly. On the other hand Barrichello still has to prove himself, with nothing to show for the same decade, or more, not to speak of last year, when in hindsight, he pulled a Webber.

bye.

Edited by Szoelloe, 27 November 2010 - 19:37.


#7874 Yorkie

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 19:58

i expect hes not so confident about next year after the last few races, if schumachers starts well im wondering if we will see a different rosberg thats error prone

You're hoping Rosberg becomes error prone?

I dont want to start a *new* thread becuase we can debate it here , but if Schumacher is successful in 2011 , will that change some nay-sayers point of view of him ?

Will his 2010 season be seen as a one-off if he manages to get podiums, race wins and out-race Rosberg (frequently) in 2011 ??

I don't find it fair that Jackie Stewart gives MS an ultimatum when he says Schumacher HAS to win the title in 2011 or else he will be leaving F1 with with his tail in between his legs ... :down:

Now all depends on the car of course... If Benz is again a mid-field car at best next year without any improvement I don't see Schumacher wasting his time in F1 in 2012 .....

I'm just wondering if the best option would be to say that Rosberg might just be an outstanding talent and Schumi is slightly over the hill now, i dont expect to see Shumi outperforming Rosberg on a regularly basis, the car didnt suit Rosberg either

#7875 arknor

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 20:22

You're hoping Rosberg becomes error prone?

im not hoping anything... but schumacher was still improving at the end of the season which was clearly shown on the live timing if this trend carries on at the start of the 2011 season im just wondering what will happen with nico when the pressure is on

#7876 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 00:59

Posts deleted.

This thread is NOT out of bounds to anyone. It is for the discussion of Michael Schumacher so both negative and positive comments are welcome.

Trolling is completely unacceptable and posters should not expect to be able to call others names. If you consider that another poster is trolling, please report them and do not respond.

(edited for typo)

#7877 SeanValen

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 04:12

I don't find it fair that Jackie Stewart gives MS an ultimatum when he says Schumacher HAS to win the title in 2011 or else he will be leaving F1 with with his tail in between his legs ... :down:




Stewart didn't like it when MS was winning, I remember him back in 2003 or 2004 saying stuff "you shouldn't be greedy". If Michael was getting titles with ferrari and was on a roll, is he going to listen to a former champion telling him what to do with his life. Stewart I respect for his era and what he did, but as a old guy now I just see perhaps some bitterness and perhaps a bit of envy that Michael has enjoyed a long time in the sport and just when you thought he was gone, he's back and the thought of him winning again just isn't iwhat he wants to watch. There's a few people who just don't want to see Michael at the top again and then there's loads who wanna see just that, no one is ever totally pleased with whatever MS is doing. MS is a motorsport legend and is still living, the fact that he's done everything, got everything and still wants to do what he's done most of his life, it just is well unique and a special treat/in a way some people just don't wanna accept he might be kicking ass again, the thought of him doing Schumi leaps again against a younger generation, it's just well against anything anyone would of thought about him and f1 before 2010, and that's the thing, if he does mount a challenge, his most unique wins and possible title 8 would be much sweeter now then ever before simply for proving the doubters wrong again and it wouldn't be a first time for him.


I think Prost's recent comments are cool, that what Michael is doing now is something only Michael could be doing in current f1, return after 3 years. But the goal of the title is something difficult, but because Michael has won so many, it's expected of him and he talks it up, people forget it took a few seasons to win with benetton and ferrari, he didn't just enter a new team and win a title straight away, he built something up with a team. Now he's returned after 3 years with a new team, he's never left the sport and returned before in a totally new environment and era, can't compare this with any previous Schuey season, it's new territory and let's see what happens.

Edited by SeanValen, 28 November 2010 - 04:35.


#7878 EdwardCullen

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 08:30

Germany wins Nations' Cup again at ROC
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88515

The best-of-three final came down to a decisive race between Priaulx and Schumacher in buggies after the German had beaten Plato and the Channel Islander had seen off Vettel in the first two parts.
There was just 0.06 seconds splitting Priaulx and Schumacher after the first lap of the showdown, but Schumacher pulled out a crucial margin on the final run to the flag, clinching victory by 0.6s in the end.
:clap: :clap: :clap:

#7879 Tarzaan

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 08:30

I hear a lot of myths about Michael doing endless testing ,when all others didn't , including his team mate? But, it seems this is only rumours and nothing back them? At least Rubens was doing good share of testing. Badoer also.


It is only a little period of his carrier, but it also means he easily beat Bari despite the less exercise/test

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#7880 Tarzaan

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 08:32

I dont want to start a *new* thread becuase we can debate it here , but if Schumacher is successful in 2011 , will that change some nay-sayers point of view of him ?

Will his 2010 season be seen as a one-off if he manages to get podiums, race wins and out-race Rosberg (frequently) in 2011 ??

I don't find it fair that Jackie Stewart gives MS an ultimatum when he says Schumacher HAS to win the title in 2011 or else he will be leaving F1 with with his tail in between his legs ... :down:

Now all depends on the car of course... If Benz is again a mid-field car at best next year without any improvement I don't see Schumacher wasting his time in F1 in 2012 .....


It is also not a serious man who takes seriously Stewart :)

Fingers cross for MS in today's race, and congrats for the team title!

#7881 cheapracer

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 15:16

IF Nico beats Michael AGAIN in terms of performance, like he did this year, will you change your opinion on Michael? You will accept that Michael is the most overrated driver in history? Michael at his peak was a good driver, much like Nico is.

Do you realize that Rubens is 39 years old and is performing in a very much higher level than Michael so this "old dude" excuse is BS?


Overrated drivers are ones that get might get "lucky" on a number of occasions through others misfortunes and end up with great results that are questionable based on relative factors, no driver gets 2, 3 or 4 WDC's and can still carry the title "overrated" let alone 7 WDC's.

You have a massive fundemental lack of understanding about motorsports and what it takes to win but 1 Grand Prix on your own convictions let alone 2 or 3, more than 10 is pretty special and up to or over 20 GP's is a title held by only a handful of the very best ever but to win 92 GP's and 7 WDC's is of a domination, relatively speaking, held by very few sports people in the entire history of the world. He has the most staggering figure of winning 10% of everything in the entire History of Grand Prix racing and even if you took away half of all Schumacher's records, he still ranks in a close second place behind Prost.

The Rubens comment really doesn't help your cause besides the irrelevance that is Schumacher 9th and Rubens 10th in the WDC.


#7882 SEP

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 15:48

Overrated drivers are ones that get might get "lucky" on a number of occasions through others misfortunes and end up with great results that are questionable based on relative factors, no driver gets 2, 3 or 4 WDC's and can still carry the title "overrated" let alone 7 WDC's.

You have a massive fundemental lack of understanding about motorsports and what it takes to win but 1 Grand Prix on your own convictions let alone 2 or 3, more than 10 is pretty special and up to or over 20 GP's is a title held by only a handful of the very best ever but to win 92 GP's and 7 WDC's is of a domination, relatively speaking, held by very few sports people in the entire history of the world. He has the most staggering figure of winning 10% of everything in the entire History of Grand Prix racing and even if you took away half of all Schumacher's records, he still ranks in a close second place behind Prost.

The Rubens comment really doesn't help your cause besides the irrelevance that is Schumacher 9th and Rubens 10th in the WDC.



Cheapracer,

This premisse " You have a massive fundemental lack of understanding about motorsports and what it takes to win " is 100% wrong, but it´s not your fault since you don´t know me. Obviously whatever derives from that premisse is absurd.

You should have noticed that F1 (and some lower formulas) have changed a lot for the last 30-35 year and even more for the last 20 years. Some people did and that´s why people does not get so surprised when a driver like Button (a very good one, btw) wins a WDC. You can bet Jenson would win 100+ races and multiple WDC s if he had a sligthly superior car for years and a very superior car for, let´s say, 5 to 10 years. It is the same for, at least, some 10 drivers in F1 and maybe hundreds of other drivers who didn´t make it, didn´t reach F1. Does it make Jenson a super driver, a really great one? No, he is still worse than Lewis, for example, in terms of talent. Webber almost won the Championship. How does he compares with, let´s say, Kubica? Hulkenberg is a hell of a driver and doesn´t have a seat for 2011 while Petrov is there. In other words, resultsa doens´t say much about driving skills, unfortunatelly.

Michael was humble (yes!) enough to realize his "talent" alone would not let him winning anything "big" in motorracing. His "god given talent" was not something we call special. He wasn´t a kart racer someone would say " here is the next F1 racing driver". He wasn´t a great F3 driver, he was not even the best Mercedes driver in Sportscar (before this he was a disaster in DTM). But, yes, he had some other talents wich were required for the "new F1".

Michael built his entire career knowing all that and working as hard as possible to "compensate" his relative lack of talent. That´s why he is the most sucesfull driver in history. In terms of pure driving skill he is no more than Nico, Felipe Albuquerque, JV, Webber, Button, or any other good driver you can find over the world. Never was, never will be.

Still, next year, IF he can build that "perfect enviroment for winning" wich is the best and most reliable car and a submisse number 2 driver as a teamate he will be WDC again. Something Nico, despite beeing way better than Michael this year, could not do.

Edited by SEP, 28 November 2010 - 16:49.


#7883 vovelo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:45

He wasn´t a great F3 driver

Just small comment about it .
Did you ever watch 1990 F3 Macau GP or 1990 F3 Fuji GP or at least heard about these events ?



#7884 SEP

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:50

Just small comment about it .
Did you ever watch 1990 F3 Macau GP or 1990 F3 Fuji GP or at least heard about these events ?


Closer than you can even think. This is OT unless you want to talk MS in F3. Let´s say i watched some of his F3 races in Germany too.

Edited by SEP, 28 November 2010 - 16:52.


#7885 vovelo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:52

Closer than you can even think.

So then you remember who won both of those events, yes ? :)


#7886 vovelo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:55

Let´s say i watched some of his F3 races in Germany too.

Lucky Man :)


#7887 SEP

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 17:15

So then you remember who won both of those events, yes ? :)


More than this, i know HOW it happened. BTW, if MS´s move on JV in 1997 had been succesfull, would MS be ranked even higher for you, as he would have 8wdc instead of 7?


#7888 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 17:29

yep. higher exactly by one.

#7889 vovelo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 17:29

More than this, i know HOW it happened.

I guess what you mean about Macau GP but what about Fuji , maybe you have some interesting things about that event for Michael as well ?

BTW, if MS´s move on JV in 1997 had been succesfull, would MS be ranked even higher for you, as he would have 8wdc instead of 7?

Why you ask about it, just nteresting to know ? :)

Edited by vovelo, 28 November 2010 - 17:30.


#7890 cheapracer

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:13

Obviously whatever derives from that premisse is absurd.

Never was, never will be.


Well gee wizz, could it be calling the most successful driver in the history of F1 by a looooong margin average?

Well I rate people such as Murray Walker, Alan Jones, DC, Hill, Todt, Brawn, Irvine - fairly long list actually who rave on about Schumacher besides all the greatest driver of all time lists where he is almost always top 3 blah blah blah, higher than some guy in a forum - surprise, surprise.

I can actually show you video of Flavio Briatore standing in front of his then current drivers Jean Alesi and Gerhart Berger at Benetton making a public speech and saying Schumacher is the greatest driver ever :lol:

You're a class act Mate, dissing out on someone who has done the hard yards and has the results on the board, diss out all you want you simply can't change the facts of what he has achieved.

I wish I was as bad as him winning all those Kart Champs, Formula Konig Champs, Formula 3 Champs, The Macau F3 (one of the goals of most F3 drivers) oh and did I mention 7x F1 WDC's? :lol:

Yeah he didn't shine as highly in Sports cars mind you he was a team driver and had to share car setups and I wouldn't mind 5th at LeMans on my resume ... did you see Senna's attempt at the Nurburgring, the ultimate driver's track? Utter crap. Does that make Senna any less of a champ, no.

Oh and I hate to mention it but Schumacher has just won the ROC thingy (team cup along with Vettle) beating everyone in equal vehicles again. Priaulx beat Vettle and Schumacher beat Priaulx so I guess according to often quoted logic in this forum that Schumacher is better than the current WDC Vettle :lol:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, you are comedy gold, keep it up :up:



#7891 BRG

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:17

It is also not a serious man who takes seriously Stewart :)

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

If this goes on, all people will remember is the unsuccessful comeback and not the earlier successes. The obvious unflattering parallels with Prost and Lauda will be drawn. That is what Stewart means - he had lots of offers to come out of retirement but he had the good sense not to.

#7892 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:26

Cheapracer & SeanValen ,

don't you know that Schumacher is the luckiest,most overated F1 driver in the history of the sport ?

Becuase apparently from 1994 to 2006 F1 had offered him very WEAK or no-competetion at all...

When he was winning his strings of championships for Ferrari , some journos and arm-chair experts were saying Schumacher never faced real competition like in the Prost-Senna days ... (that was their excuse)

Now since 2007, their saying that competition is at it's highest ( coincidance when he retired and Hamilton's arrival :rotfl: )

Wow , Schumacher really lucked out did'nt he ? His competition was better and alot tougher PRE-1994 and it's now alot stronger POST-2006 ....

But in Michael Schumacher's ''day'' the best drivers in the world were mearly average .... Or is it because he made EVERYBODY look average ? I'd go for the latter ...

Eddie Jordan 2006 :' Michael is the fastest racing driver the world has ever seen ' :wave:


Edited by 7timesbetterthantherest, 28 November 2010 - 19:01.


#7893 DarthRonzo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:45

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

The main case is MS only won WDC with the TC assistance.

The bashers claim that MS is just barbarian driver that likes a stuck front and very loose rear end.
However this kind of drive will burn its rear tires and worn it too quickly.
That's why TC is so important, to preserve MS' performance through the whole race.

When MS came back with no TC, he just proved the point of all his bashers.
A superior driver would adapt to any kind of car handling conditions.
To get it all even worse, MS was convincingly outpaced by Nico Rosberg, a still unproven driver.

Then MS kept moaning more than Rubens to justify the impossible, like: his car is better, the tires doesn't suit me, Mercedes is poor team, etc.

Edited by DarthRonzo, 28 November 2010 - 18:47.


#7894 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 19:27

Once again, this thread is not out of bounds to anyone. The topic of discussion is not about another poster.

#7895 Raelene

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 21:46

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

If this goes on, all people will remember is the unsuccessful comeback and not the earlier successes.



ROFLMAO - so they will forget all 7 titles and all his wins... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


#7896 DarthRonzo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 21:51

ROFLMAO - so they will forget all 7 titles and all his wins... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Who :confused:


:lol:

#7897 BRG

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 22:09

ROFLMAO - so they will forget all 7 titles and all his wins... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Yes, exactly that. You may not like it, but people are fickle and bad news always outsells good news. Schumacher will be remembered as the guy who came back and flopped. Unless he pulls his finger out in 2011, that is.

#7898 Bonaventura

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 22:13

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

If this goes on, all people will remember is the unsuccessful comeback and not the earlier successes. The obvious unflattering parallels with Prost and Lauda will be drawn. That is what Stewart means - he had lots of offers to come out of retirement but he had the good sense not to.

Never
He will always be remembered as one of the greatest F1 drivers ever
not even Michael himself can change this.

Edited by Bonaventura, 28 November 2010 - 22:16.


#7899 OS X

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 23:07

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

If this goes on, all people will remember is the unsuccessful comeback and not the earlier successes. The obvious unflattering parallels with Prost and Lauda will be drawn. That is what Stewart means - he had lots of offers to come out of retirement but he had the good sense not to.


That is absolutely rubbish. Schumacher's career is defined by his epic battles throughout his career: Schumacher-Senna (which was unfornately an unfinished battle), Schumacher-Hill, Schumacher-Häkkinen, Schumacher-Alonso. The fact that you try to banalise his numerous achievements is risible; you don't win almost as many grands prix as Senna and Prost combined without having something a little extraordinary.

Let me draw some parallels with the other greats of their respective sports to put things into perspective:

Does the world remember Michael Jordan as a six-time basketball champion or a washed-up Washington Wizard?

Does the world remember Lance Armstrong as a seven time Tour de France winner or for his failed comeback where he could only muster one third place in three years of trying?

Bjorn Borg - the guy who won 10 tennis slams before retiring at 26, or the guy who suffered 12 straight first round defeats in his ATP Tour comeback?

Muhammad Ali - the guy who won three heavyweight titles, or the guy who lost his last two comeback fights?

Michael Schumacher is undoubtedly one of the greatest drivers ever. It's just a shame that so many people try to detract from his greatness.

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#7900 Raelene

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 23:07

Yes, exactly that. You may not like it, but people are fickle and bad news always outsells good news. Schumacher will be remembered as the guy who came back and flopped. Unless he pulls his finger out in 2011, that is.


You are wrong

All people will not remember that - many (IMO Most) will remember his spectacular career.

not all people are as fickle as you.