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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#7901 SEP

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 15:48

Overrated drivers are ones that get might get "lucky" on a number of occasions through others misfortunes and end up with great results that are questionable based on relative factors, no driver gets 2, 3 or 4 WDC's and can still carry the title "overrated" let alone 7 WDC's.

You have a massive fundemental lack of understanding about motorsports and what it takes to win but 1 Grand Prix on your own convictions let alone 2 or 3, more than 10 is pretty special and up to or over 20 GP's is a title held by only a handful of the very best ever but to win 92 GP's and 7 WDC's is of a domination, relatively speaking, held by very few sports people in the entire history of the world. He has the most staggering figure of winning 10% of everything in the entire History of Grand Prix racing and even if you took away half of all Schumacher's records, he still ranks in a close second place behind Prost.

The Rubens comment really doesn't help your cause besides the irrelevance that is Schumacher 9th and Rubens 10th in the WDC.



Cheapracer,

This premisse " You have a massive fundemental lack of understanding about motorsports and what it takes to win " is 100% wrong, but it´s not your fault since you don´t know me. Obviously whatever derives from that premisse is absurd.

You should have noticed that F1 (and some lower formulas) have changed a lot for the last 30-35 year and even more for the last 20 years. Some people did and that´s why people does not get so surprised when a driver like Button (a very good one, btw) wins a WDC. You can bet Jenson would win 100+ races and multiple WDC s if he had a sligthly superior car for years and a very superior car for, let´s say, 5 to 10 years. It is the same for, at least, some 10 drivers in F1 and maybe hundreds of other drivers who didn´t make it, didn´t reach F1. Does it make Jenson a super driver, a really great one? No, he is still worse than Lewis, for example, in terms of talent. Webber almost won the Championship. How does he compares with, let´s say, Kubica? Hulkenberg is a hell of a driver and doesn´t have a seat for 2011 while Petrov is there. In other words, resultsa doens´t say much about driving skills, unfortunatelly.

Michael was humble (yes!) enough to realize his "talent" alone would not let him winning anything "big" in motorracing. His "god given talent" was not something we call special. He wasn´t a kart racer someone would say " here is the next F1 racing driver". He wasn´t a great F3 driver, he was not even the best Mercedes driver in Sportscar (before this he was a disaster in DTM). But, yes, he had some other talents wich were required for the "new F1".

Michael built his entire career knowing all that and working as hard as possible to "compensate" his relative lack of talent. That´s why he is the most sucesfull driver in history. In terms of pure driving skill he is no more than Nico, Felipe Albuquerque, JV, Webber, Button, or any other good driver you can find over the world. Never was, never will be.

Still, next year, IF he can build that "perfect enviroment for winning" wich is the best and most reliable car and a submisse number 2 driver as a teamate he will be WDC again. Something Nico, despite beeing way better than Michael this year, could not do.

Edited by SEP, 28 November 2010 - 16:49.


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#7902 vovelo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:45

He wasn´t a great F3 driver

Just small comment about it .
Did you ever watch 1990 F3 Macau GP or 1990 F3 Fuji GP or at least heard about these events ?



#7903 SEP

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:50

Just small comment about it .
Did you ever watch 1990 F3 Macau GP or 1990 F3 Fuji GP or at least heard about these events ?


Closer than you can even think. This is OT unless you want to talk MS in F3. Let´s say i watched some of his F3 races in Germany too.

Edited by SEP, 28 November 2010 - 16:52.


#7904 vovelo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:52

Closer than you can even think.

So then you remember who won both of those events, yes ? :)


#7905 vovelo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 16:55

Let´s say i watched some of his F3 races in Germany too.

Lucky Man :)


#7906 SEP

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 17:15

So then you remember who won both of those events, yes ? :)


More than this, i know HOW it happened. BTW, if MS´s move on JV in 1997 had been succesfull, would MS be ranked even higher for you, as he would have 8wdc instead of 7?


#7907 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 17:29

yep. higher exactly by one.

#7908 vovelo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 17:29

More than this, i know HOW it happened.

I guess what you mean about Macau GP but what about Fuji , maybe you have some interesting things about that event for Michael as well ?

BTW, if MS´s move on JV in 1997 had been succesfull, would MS be ranked even higher for you, as he would have 8wdc instead of 7?

Why you ask about it, just nteresting to know ? :)

Edited by vovelo, 28 November 2010 - 17:30.


#7909 cheapracer

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:13

Obviously whatever derives from that premisse is absurd.

Never was, never will be.


Well gee wizz, could it be calling the most successful driver in the history of F1 by a looooong margin average?

Well I rate people such as Murray Walker, Alan Jones, DC, Hill, Todt, Brawn, Irvine - fairly long list actually who rave on about Schumacher besides all the greatest driver of all time lists where he is almost always top 3 blah blah blah, higher than some guy in a forum - surprise, surprise.

I can actually show you video of Flavio Briatore standing in front of his then current drivers Jean Alesi and Gerhart Berger at Benetton making a public speech and saying Schumacher is the greatest driver ever :lol:

You're a class act Mate, dissing out on someone who has done the hard yards and has the results on the board, diss out all you want you simply can't change the facts of what he has achieved.

I wish I was as bad as him winning all those Kart Champs, Formula Konig Champs, Formula 3 Champs, The Macau F3 (one of the goals of most F3 drivers) oh and did I mention 7x F1 WDC's? :lol:

Yeah he didn't shine as highly in Sports cars mind you he was a team driver and had to share car setups and I wouldn't mind 5th at LeMans on my resume ... did you see Senna's attempt at the Nurburgring, the ultimate driver's track? Utter crap. Does that make Senna any less of a champ, no.

Oh and I hate to mention it but Schumacher has just won the ROC thingy (team cup along with Vettle) beating everyone in equal vehicles again. Priaulx beat Vettle and Schumacher beat Priaulx so I guess according to often quoted logic in this forum that Schumacher is better than the current WDC Vettle :lol:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, you are comedy gold, keep it up :up:



#7910 BRG

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:17

It is also not a serious man who takes seriously Stewart :)

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

If this goes on, all people will remember is the unsuccessful comeback and not the earlier successes. The obvious unflattering parallels with Prost and Lauda will be drawn. That is what Stewart means - he had lots of offers to come out of retirement but he had the good sense not to.

#7911 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:26

Cheapracer & SeanValen ,

don't you know that Schumacher is the luckiest,most overated F1 driver in the history of the sport ?

Becuase apparently from 1994 to 2006 F1 had offered him very WEAK or no-competetion at all...

When he was winning his strings of championships for Ferrari , some journos and arm-chair experts were saying Schumacher never faced real competition like in the Prost-Senna days ... (that was their excuse)

Now since 2007, their saying that competition is at it's highest ( coincidance when he retired and Hamilton's arrival :rotfl: )

Wow , Schumacher really lucked out did'nt he ? His competition was better and alot tougher PRE-1994 and it's now alot stronger POST-2006 ....

But in Michael Schumacher's ''day'' the best drivers in the world were mearly average .... Or is it because he made EVERYBODY look average ? I'd go for the latter ...

Eddie Jordan 2006 :' Michael is the fastest racing driver the world has ever seen ' :wave:


Edited by 7timesbetterthantherest, 28 November 2010 - 19:01.


#7912 DarthRonzo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 18:45

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

The main case is MS only won WDC with the TC assistance.

The bashers claim that MS is just barbarian driver that likes a stuck front and very loose rear end.
However this kind of drive will burn its rear tires and worn it too quickly.
That's why TC is so important, to preserve MS' performance through the whole race.

When MS came back with no TC, he just proved the point of all his bashers.
A superior driver would adapt to any kind of car handling conditions.
To get it all even worse, MS was convincingly outpaced by Nico Rosberg, a still unproven driver.

Then MS kept moaning more than Rubens to justify the impossible, like: his car is better, the tires doesn't suit me, Mercedes is poor team, etc.

Edited by DarthRonzo, 28 November 2010 - 18:47.


#7913 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 19:27

Once again, this thread is not out of bounds to anyone. The topic of discussion is not about another poster.

#7914 Raelene

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 21:46

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

If this goes on, all people will remember is the unsuccessful comeback and not the earlier successes.



ROFLMAO - so they will forget all 7 titles and all his wins... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


#7915 DarthRonzo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 21:51

ROFLMAO - so they will forget all 7 titles and all his wins... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Who :confused:


:lol:

#7916 BRG

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 22:09

ROFLMAO - so they will forget all 7 titles and all his wins... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Yes, exactly that. You may not like it, but people are fickle and bad news always outsells good news. Schumacher will be remembered as the guy who came back and flopped. Unless he pulls his finger out in 2011, that is.

#7917 Bonaventura

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 22:13

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

If this goes on, all people will remember is the unsuccessful comeback and not the earlier successes. The obvious unflattering parallels with Prost and Lauda will be drawn. That is what Stewart means - he had lots of offers to come out of retirement but he had the good sense not to.

Never
He will always be remembered as one of the greatest F1 drivers ever
not even Michael himself can change this.

Edited by Bonaventura, 28 November 2010 - 22:16.


#7918 OS X

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 23:07

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

If this goes on, all people will remember is the unsuccessful comeback and not the earlier successes. The obvious unflattering parallels with Prost and Lauda will be drawn. That is what Stewart means - he had lots of offers to come out of retirement but he had the good sense not to.


That is absolutely rubbish. Schumacher's career is defined by his epic battles throughout his career: Schumacher-Senna (which was unfornately an unfinished battle), Schumacher-Hill, Schumacher-Häkkinen, Schumacher-Alonso. The fact that you try to banalise his numerous achievements is risible; you don't win almost as many grands prix as Senna and Prost combined without having something a little extraordinary.

Let me draw some parallels with the other greats of their respective sports to put things into perspective:

Does the world remember Michael Jordan as a six-time basketball champion or a washed-up Washington Wizard?

Does the world remember Lance Armstrong as a seven time Tour de France winner or for his failed comeback where he could only muster one third place in three years of trying?

Bjorn Borg - the guy who won 10 tennis slams before retiring at 26, or the guy who suffered 12 straight first round defeats in his ATP Tour comeback?

Muhammad Ali - the guy who won three heavyweight titles, or the guy who lost his last two comeback fights?

Michael Schumacher is undoubtedly one of the greatest drivers ever. It's just a shame that so many people try to detract from his greatness.

#7919 Raelene

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 23:07

Yes, exactly that. You may not like it, but people are fickle and bad news always outsells good news. Schumacher will be remembered as the guy who came back and flopped. Unless he pulls his finger out in 2011, that is.


You are wrong

All people will not remember that - many (IMO Most) will remember his spectacular career.

not all people are as fickle as you.

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#7920 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 23:12

those who speak badly now about him spoke badly before his comeback


#7921 baddog

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 23:25

Why not - is it too difficult for you to accept that for many people Schumacher is devaluing his 'brand' by returning to F1 and not winning?

A: What is all this brand rubbish? What are you mclarens marketing department or something? Michael evidently doesnt give a stuff about his 'brand' which makes him more sensible than you are.

B: What Stewart was doing is what he has spent 10 years doing.. talking nonsense from behind a reputation well earned a very very long time ago.

C: We shall see in a couple of years anyway..

#7922 as65p

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 00:05

Michael Jordan

Lance Armstrong

Bjorn Borg

Muhammad Ali


Yet arguably all those competitors legends would be even greater had they not come back and failed. I completely agree that nothing can take away what MS has done in his first career. At the same time I can't see how a failed comeback would add to his reputation.

#7923 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 01:27

Yet arguably all those competitors legends would be even greater had they not come back and failed. I completely agree that nothing can take away what MS has done in his first career. At the same time I can't see how a failed comeback would add to his reputation.


Michael Jordan


Michael Jordan did not fail in his 3rd comeback - He was 41 years old in his last year as a Washington Wizard and broke records as a 41 year-old NBA basket-ball player ... :up: Sure he lost his jumping abilities but his shot was as good as ever :up:

Scoring 50 + points in games .... If his Wizard team were better equiped with more talent , Jordan would of probably made the NBA finals ...


http://www.youtube.c...feature=related NBA record 51 points at age 38

NBA record 43 points at age 40


Michael Schumacher still has 2011 and 2012 to prove the world wrong ....


Edited by 7timesbetterthantherest, 29 November 2010 - 01:40.


#7924 Raelene

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 02:10

Yet arguably all those competitors legends would be even greater had they not come back and failed. I completely agree that nothing can take away what MS has done in his first career. At the same time I can't see how a failed comeback would add to his reputation.


I don't recall anyone saying it would ADD to his reputation - what BRG was saying was simply ridiculous

#7925 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 03:09

2 minute interview during recent ROC event -

http://www.3news.co....55/Default.aspx

#7926 SparkPlug

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 03:57

Personally, my respect for Lance Armstrong went up even more after his comeback. He wasnt washed up by any means, even though he wasnt at his peak. No one realistically expected Armstrong to comeback and beat opposition 15 years younger than him, in a sport as physically demanding as cycling.

The jury is still out on the Schumacher comeback, but great sportsmen like Armstrong, Jordan and Schumacher have the tendency to always prove their doubters wrong.
IMO a couple of wins next year before retiring will more than raise his legend to even further heights. I think its quite possible, if the last few races of 2010 is anything to go by



#7927 cheapracer

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 07:37

Because apparently from 1994 to 2006 F1 had offered him very WEAK or no-competetion at all...

But in Michael Schumacher's ''day'' the best drivers in the world were mearly average .... Or is it because he made EVERYBODY look average ? I'd go for the latter ...


Yup for 15 years (1991 actually) suddenly all the drivers who were in F1 were crappy. Same for Michael Doohan too, he also made the field suddenly look very average and for Doohan the similar parallel, had it not been for an accident/ broken leg he would have more titles too (assumption only with all being equal).



That is absolutely rubbish. Schumacher's career is defined by his epic battles throughout his career: Schumacher-Senna (which was unfornately an unfinished battle), Schumacher-Hill, Schumacher-Häkkinen, Schumacher-Alonso.


Schumacher - Montoya, Schumacher Vs Kimi etc. etc. - for all the years except 2005 it was Schumacher Vs ?? because he was the standard to beat.

Someone mention it before and I agree that a lot of the naysayers created from then were just sick of him being there race after race, found reason to hate him for it gripping on to any small fault and just wanted him to be beaten - tall poppy syndrome. I can't imagine to frustration for some of the nonsayers had they not had Jerez '97 and Monaco '06 to cling onto and relieve some of that steam :lol:


#7928 Fortymark

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:10

Schumacher - Montoya, Schumacher Vs Kimi etc. etc. - for all the years except 2005 it was Schumacher Vs ?? because he was the standard to beat.

Someone mention it before and I agree that a lot of the naysayers created from then were just sick of him being there race after race, found reason to hate him for it gripping on to any small fault and just wanted him to be beaten - tall poppy syndrome. I can't imagine to frustration for some of the nonsayers had they not had Jerez '97 and Monaco '06 to cling onto and relieve some of that steam :lol:


He was not the standard to beat, he had the best/superior car and exclusive #1 status.

Seriously, do you really think that Schumacher would have been superior if he had a teammate
like Alonso or Raikkonen and they had equal status?

Im not even sure that Schumacher would have beaten Barrichello if he had the same status



#7929 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:18

He was not the standard to beat, he had the best/superior car and exclusive #1 status.

Seriously, do you really think that Schumacher would have been superior if he had a teammate
like Alonso or Raikkonen and they had equal status?

Im not even sure that Schumacher would have beaten Barrichello if he had the same status


Alonso also had #1 status within Renault and now Ferrari. Funny how nobody questions his legacy.... :rolleyes:

#1 status is given BASED on who extracts the maximum out of the car the most. Schumacer EARNED his because he SMASHED his team mates and made them look ordinary for most of the time (example 2005; Schumacher was 3rd and Barichello was 8th - how can he cry about equal status when Schumacher tore him a new one?)

Schumacher earned his right to #1 on merit and ability.

#7930 Fortymark

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:45

Alonso also had #1 status within Renault and now Ferrari. Funny how nobody questions his legacy.... :rolleyes:

#1 status is given BASED on who extracts the maximum out of the car the most. Schumacer EARNED his because he SMASHED his team mates and made them look ordinary for most of the time (example 2005; Schumacher was 3rd and Barichello was 8th - how can he cry about equal status when Schumacher tore him a new one?)

Schumacher earned his right to #1 on merit and ability.



Schumacher "SMASHED" his team mates because he had number 1 status.
He didn´t "earn" it either, Coulthard confirmed that for the 1996 season he had the chance to sign
for Ferrari as a number 2 driver. Now how did Schumacher "earn" that status at Ferrari when
he hadn´t done 1 single race with them?

Without the number 1 status, Schumacher was the one getting "SMASHED".
Go watch the 2010 season again :wave:

You should also know that not all teams have a strict number 1 and number 2 policy, they actually let
their drivers race each others.

#7931 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:49

2 minute interview during recent ROC event -

http://www.3news.co....55/Default.aspx


Seems to me like he is quite reserved about next year.

#7932 Number62

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:56

Alonso also had #1 status within Renault and now Ferrari. Funny how nobody questions his legacy.... :rolleyes:

#1 status is given BASED on who extracts the maximum out of the car the most. Schumacer EARNED his because he SMASHED his team mates and made them look ordinary for most of the time (example 2005; Schumacher was 3rd and Barichello was 8th - how can he cry about equal status when Schumacher tore him a new one?)

Schumacher earned his right to #1 on merit and ability.


Plenty DO question Alonso's legacy, for the same reasons, and evidenced by his year at McL.

If MSC was THAT good why would he need preferential treatment.

#1 status is not given based on who extracts etc. etc. It is given (or not) based on the teams policy (see Red Bull). If one is political enough and good at negotiation, and well managed AND fast enough to 'demand' number one status then well done, it's another way to get ahead in a cut throat business.

The argument I see is not that MSC (and his cabal) destroyed his otherwise equal team mates but that he (and his cabal) chose leser team mates to destroy. The results would suggest that they went about things the right way. The back story does not suggest that MSC was miles better that his contemporaries.

#7933 zack1994

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:06

Schumacher "SMASHED" his team mates because he had number 1 status.
He didn´t "earn" it either, Coulthard confirmed that for the 1996 season he had the chance to sign
for Ferrari as a number 2 driver. Now how did Schumacher "earn" that status at Ferrari when
he hadn´t done 1 single race with them?

Without the number 1 status, Schumacher was the one getting "SMASHED".
Go watch the 2010 season again :wave:

You should also know that not all teams have a strict number 1 and number 2 policy, they actually let
their drivers race each others.

schumacher smashed his teamates because he was better and the reasons rosberg beat schumacher in 2010 was because he had been out of the sport for 3 years and of course he was rusty simple as that

#7934 Buttoneer

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:43

Hulk Smash! Destroy! Such emotive stuff.

Schumacher undoubtedly was good enough to beat most drivers he has been paired with. He proved that early on and then was given enough preferential treatment so that the 'beat' turned into that 'smash' or 'destroy'. I think it's perfectly reasonable to argue that the margins by which he beat his team mates were exaggerated because of the way he was treated in exactly the same way as this year the margin between him and Rosberg was. In fact, isn't it double-standards to argue that this year wasn't a fair reflection of his ability and at the same time saying that 2002, for example, was?

But I also believe that it's a hell of a lot harder to argue that he didn't earn that #1 position through sheer hard work and ability.

#7935 ivand911

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 12:06

Seems to me like he is quite reserved about next year.

He have very understandable position. From where they are, he can't say anything else. I also don't believe that team can produce winner car. But, if the car can fight for wins will be great. 2011 will be great anyway. Michael is here. :)


#7936 ivand911

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 12:17

Schumacher "SMASHED" his team mates because he had number 1 status.
He didn´t "earn" it either, Coulthard confirmed that for the 1996 season he had the chance to sign
for Ferrari as a number 2 driver. Now how did Schumacher "earn" that status at Ferrari when
he hadn´t done 1 single race with them?

Without the number 1 status, Schumacher was the one getting "SMASHED".
Go watch the 2010 season again :wave:

You should also know that not all teams have a strict number 1 and number 2 policy, they actually let
their drivers race each others.

Michael was number 2 in more than half of this season and this is why he was "smashed".

Edited by ivand911, 29 November 2010 - 12:18.


#7937 schuey100

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 12:36

Im not even sure that Schumacher would have beaten Barrichello if he had the same status


Whatever the merits of the rest of your argument it's somewhat undermined by this comment. I think it's completely possible to argue that Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton are and would have been better than Schumacher in the same car, there's certainly an argument to be had but to suggest that Rubens and Michael were close enough for one to suggest Rubens would beat Michael if they received equal treatment...well, that's certainly stretching any kind of credibility.



#7938 Yorkie

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 13:11

Yet arguably all those competitors legends would be even greater had they not come back and failed. I completely agree that nothing can take away what MS has done in his first career. At the same time I can't see how a failed comeback would add to his reputation.

I agree, its been a failed comeback, also the issues with tyres tarnishes his reputation somewhat

schumacher smashed his teamates because he was better and the reasons rosberg beat schumacher in 2010 was because he had been out of the sport for 3 years and of course he was rusty simple as that

Trouble is the rust never seemed to come off

Michael was number 2 in more than half of this season and this is why he was "smashed".

If he was #2 then it was of his own doing

#7939 ivand911

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 13:18

I agree, its been a failed comeback, also the issues with tyres tarnishes his reputation somewhat
Trouble is the rust never seemed to come off
If he was #2 then it was of his own doing

It is the same when he was #1, it was his own doing. I hope you all will accepted it. I guess it was not problem for him to play #2 for Nico when there was nothing major to be won. It is not big deal to help your team mate(team) to get 7th. You can't be #1 for years just by luck, but you can be #2 one year because of the luck.

Edited by ivand911, 29 November 2010 - 13:23.


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#7940 BenettonB192

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 13:29

How anyone who saw Schumacher drive in his first career can doubt his ability, talent and speed back then is completely beyond me. Hater goggles i suppose.

And btw. Schumi himself never made a secret out of it that #1 status was part of his success. He always defends this type of team strategy in interviews.

#7941 Yorkie

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 13:40

It is the same when he was #1, it was his own doing. I hope you all will accepted it. I guess it was not problem for him to play #2 for Nico when there was nothing major to be won. It is not big deal to help your team mate(team) to get 7th. You can't be #1 for years just by luck, but you can be #2 one year because of the luck.

How has luck got to do with being slower than your teammate?

#7942 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 13:47

Schumacher "SMASHED" his team mates because he had number 1 status.
He didn´t "earn" it either, Coulthard confirmed that for the 1996 season he had the chance to sign
for Ferrari as a number 2 driver. Now how did Schumacher "earn" that status at Ferrari when
he hadn´t done 1 single race with them?

Without the number 1 status, Schumacher was the one getting "SMASHED".
Go watch the 2010 season again :wave:

You should also know that not all teams have a strict number 1 and number 2 policy, they actually let
their drivers race each others.


Yes

Schumacher got SMASHED in 2010.

In the first 4 races he was 40 points behind Rosberg (one DNF, one first lap incident and one race with a damaged chassis at China). Over the next 15 races he fell back by a further 30 points (70 in total), average a 2 point per race deficit. He also yielded to Rosberg on more than one occasion and had more DNF's and non-points scoring positions than Rosberg due to poor strategy and poor racecraft.

If you want to be objective, he was beaten. If you just want to analyse raw number then he was 'SMASHED'.

Rubens (who you said was the equal to Schumacher probably) was SMASHED in 2005 (oh and 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004) :up:

#7943 ivand911

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 13:50

How has luck got to do with being slower than your teammate?

Is bad luck, when you can't start ,and you lose what you gain in Qualy? Since when faster mean, you win in the end? Alonso was faster than Petrov, but who finish first in Abu Dhabi? Faster means nothing. Michael was faster in Australia(he get first to the first corner), He was faster in Valencia too, in Monaco too. In Canada he was 6th and Nico out of top10, when Michael collide with Kubica. Nothing with the luck apparently.

Edited by ivand911, 29 November 2010 - 13:53.


#7944 Yorkie

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 13:55

Is bad luck, when you can't start ,and you lose what you gain in Qualy? Since when faster mean, you win in the end? Alonso was faster than Petrov, but who finish first in Abu Dhabi? Faster means nothing. Michael was faster in Australia(he get first to the first corner), He was faster in Valencia too, in Monaco too. In Canada he was 6th and Nico out of top10, when Michael collide with Kubica. Nothing with the luck apparently.

So Schumi was better than Rosberg in some races, Rubens use to beat Schumi in some races as well, over the season Schumi was well beaten by Rosberg, of this there is no doubt

#7945 arknor

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 15:59

So Schumi was better than Rosberg in some races, Rubens use to beat Schumi in some races as well, over the season Schumi was well beaten by Rosberg, of this there is no doubt

how many times didnt rubens yield or finish ahead of schumacher on merit? 1-3 times at best if i remember right out of how many races?

back in that era the top teams had 1 and 2 drivers anyone who thinks coulthard wasnt a #2 is crazy.

i remember the mclaren deal whoever got to the first corner first would win the race :rotfl: dont remember it beeing coulthard much


schumacher didnt improve this season? live timings for the last few races says otherwise

#7946 Yorkie

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 16:37

how many times didnt rubens yield or finish ahead of schumacher on merit? 1-3 times at best if i remember right out of how many races?

back in that era the top teams had 1 and 2 drivers anyone who thinks coulthard wasnt a #2 is crazy.

i remember the mclaren deal whoever got to the first corner first would win the race :rotfl: dont remember it beeing coulthard much


schumacher didnt improve this season? live timings for the last few races says otherwise

I remember some of Rubens races being compromised with alternative strategies

How long would DC last in todays F1 drivers?

Edited by Yorkie, 29 November 2010 - 16:39.


#7947 cheapracer

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 16:47

If MSC was THAT good why would he need preferential treatment.


You seem to be confused, don't feel bad other here seem to be under the same disallusion, MSC was "THAT good" and THATS why Benneton and then Ferrari put all their resources behind him.

Or do you have another version of why he could command number one status?? I don't believe he is related or married to anyone's daughter of Benneton or Ferrari so come on, there must be some other simply amazing theory of why he was number one ahead of some of the other best drivers in the world .... pick any 2 of his number two drivers and I'll run up their driving history for you so you can see how terrible they are :lol:

What is it that some of you don't simply understand that some teams run number one drivers and some don't?? We all know that Williams have lost 2 WDC's in modern times because of not running a number one. I figure from the Benz Sportscar Team he probably decided early on never to go with a team where he couldn't be number one eventually so Williams and McLaren were probably always out of the question for him - smart move, smart man and now historically the most successful and richest ever because of that (assumed) decision.

Amusing here also is the hypocrisy, when you have the ability to command your own deal with preferential treatment for anything from sports to work to how you want your steak cooked you take it without blinking an eye but when it comes to someone else's right, and an earned right at that, it's a bad thing apparently :confused:

Schumacher earned his right to number one status and he maintained that right throughout his career.

Oh and Rosberg beat him for the first 3/4's of this year fair and square, does that make you happy...... :wave:


#7948 cheapracer

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 16:58

So Schumi was better than Rosberg in some races, Rubens use to beat Schumi in some races as well, over the season Schumi was well beaten by Rosberg, of this there is no doubt


Rubens and MS's status quo was consistant but your statement clearly is meant to read that Rosberg was consistently better all year and MS kind of had a few moments in the same way as Rubens and that's simply not true.

Rosberg was indeed clearly better for the first 3/4's of the year with MS better in "some races" and then it was a different story for the last 1/4 and since this is common knowledge, readable in any race report, online net views, able to be viewed on video around the net, available race and lap times through the FIA, reported consistently along the way in this forum - in other words MS's late year rise to be at least equal performance with Rosberg is totally provable with evidence besides being witnessed by quite a few million people, I can only suggest you have been living in a cave or you are trolling.

You should go with the "if MS has success in 2011 it will be because they designed the car just for him" bitter line, 2010 is finished and in the bag and he ain't going just yet.

Edited by cheapracer, 29 November 2010 - 17:03.


#7949 Yorkie

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 17:08

how many times didnt rubens yield or finish ahead of schumacher on merit? 1-3 times at best if i remember right out of how many races?

Just perusing through the 2000 season, Rubens first season at Ferrari, and a similar perusal through last season, Rubens beat Schumi 3 times on merit whilst Schumi beat Rosberg 3 times on merit

#7950 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 17:10

People on here parrot on about Schumacher recieving preferential treatment and #1 status within the team.

We should turn this statement on its head and ask WHY did Schumacher recieve #1 status and preferential treatment? Look at the way he has knuckled down this year - despite losing to Rosberg - and just got on with the job. He hasn't complained, whined or thrown his toys out of the pram.

Perhaps that is why he has been so revered within every team he has worked for......? Working so damn hard.

Or maybe he is the secret lovechild of Jacob Rothschild and there has been a conspiracy since 1991?