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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#7951 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 18:46

Agree with Ross Brawn. Michael still competitive, that s correct. He is as fast as he has always been, Nico s level, wich is very high but not Lewis, Alonso s, Vettel or Kubika s level. Not to mention the all time greats.

You should not mention ROC because IF theres is or was a dominant driver, certainly this driver isn t Michael, even if he (Loeb) does not have the privilege Of driving only one type Of car. In fact ROC proves my point . F Albuquerque, Kova and some others showed us that given the same equipment, it is much harder to beat Vettel and specially Loeb, than the most sucesfull driver ever. Much harder than this is to participate in such an event under this exclusive "i can only drive a KTM due contracts i have with A, B or C".



LOL

and you are wandering that some here call you names?

Edited by Szoelloe, 30 November 2010 - 18:47.


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#7952 zack1994

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 19:07

people need to understand michael isn't same driver he was, not at all next year he will be much better than he was in 2010 but never will be what he was, im tipping him to win the championship next year though

#7953 SEP

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 19:24

:rotfl:


Please, if you want anyone to take you seriously stop with all this nonsense. :rolleyes:


Huge balls are required for using the word nonsense after all those quotes about Michael x Nico before the season started.


#7954 ivand911

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 20:52

I see, SEP is new joker in town. I know what is his problem: his favourite driver Prost together with another good driver Senna have 7titles like Michael. I guess every title that Michael made over 4th was big blow to him personally. I am just surprised he show so late after season finish. Or maybe he is old acquaintance, only now he use new name.

#7955 Yorkie

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 21:20

2 very funny posts above, BRG I lol'ed! :lol:

So about the driving skills SEP, how is it he keeps winning the ROC's yearly and that was even commented by Ross Brawn early this year as part of the reason why he though Schumacher was still competitive ....

You know the ROC where they all get the same cars, even swapped around for fairness ......

ROC is not F1

people need to understand michael isn't same driver he was, not at all next year he will be much better than he was in 2010 but never will be what he was, im tipping him to win the championship next year though

The bookies will be glad to see you

#7956 baddog

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 21:57

ROC is not F1

ROC is a magical series, in that if Michael loses it proves he was never any good, but at the same time if he wins it is a silly event of no significance.

Cognitive dissonance is a grand sight.

#7957 Buttoneer

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 22:00

ROC is a magical series, in that if Michael loses it proves he was never any good, but at the same time if he wins it is a silly event of no significance.

:rotfl: shockingly true!

#7958 SEP

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 22:08

:rotfl: shockingly true!


maybe the reallity, the way it happened, of Michael winning and losing could help you in order to understand that most Of those drivers have the same skills.

#7959 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 23:20

maybe the reallity, the way it happened, of Michael winning and losing could help you in order to understand that most Of those drivers have the same skills.

wow
you managed to write a post that doesn't make any sens. anyone at all

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#7960 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 23:22

Simple. There are people here who had seen him racing (oir even raced against him) since his karting days, F3, DTM, Sportscar and it was easy to tell he was not special at all when talking about driving skills.

there are people who claim to be kiddnaped by aliens
there are stupid people
there are incredibly stupid people
there are people allowed to post here even though they have the IQ number of a day in any chosen month

#7961 iakhtar

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 23:38

Hi everyone! I have no special driving skills and I'm completely average, just came on here to say hello, oh that reminds me, I have to go and arrange an undisputed No1 contract with a high level F1 team, earn millions and win a record amount of championships, anyone can do it apparently. See you all later!

#7962 Muz Bee

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 23:54

I see, SEP is new joker in town. I know what is his problem: his favourite driver Prost together with another good driver Senna have 7titles like Michael. I guess every title that Michael made over 4th was big blow to him personally. I am just surprised he show so late after season finish. Or maybe he is old acquaintance, only now he use new name.

Yep, you're probably right. SEP probably suffers from a similar fan disease as yourself. Your apparent dislike for Nico PROBABLY comes from his beating of your hero. Some people can face facts, others choose to ignore the evidence and make excuses. Fact is, Michael is no longer a driver who can produce miraculous drives as the sands of time have buried him. With a lesser teammate and a better car he might have won a GP this year but so what? With a better car Nico would still have PROBABLY beaten Michael to the win since he is about 0.3 faster in the all important qualifying AND has good race pace and consistency.

I'm not someone who has nakedly bagged Michael in both his first and second careers in F1 (other than for his lack of sportsmanship) as he WAS a particularly good driver whose miracles especially at Spa thrilled me. It always hurt to see such an excellent driver devalue his undoubtedly fine career by things like the deliberate move on JV at Jerez, the parking incident at Monaco and more recently the Barrichello outrage. To excuse those things in the face of many other questionable tactics is to be one-eyed. I guess to be honest I feel Michael is now getting his come-uppance for his misdeeds from the young F1 set who are not to be intimidated and are in many cases very fast. I do believe there is a human face to Michael as Brawn has often said but he hides it so often behind a stony face which denies what we can all see. Somehow 2010 for many of us was, we hoped, to be the year that a more human and humane Michael raced for enjoyment and with integrity. Hungary 2010 proved otherwise and his entire career will always be blighted by his ruthlessness.

Having returned home this week from an event where I witnessed a fatal crash it brings more and more into focus how the safety and sportsmanship of competitors is paramount. Michael and Ayrton both took the sport beyond these principles and put winning at all costs as their guiding mark. But it's Michael who has consistently shown how little he cares for principle and how much for winning. Even scoring 1 WDC point in - for him - a meaningless season, is worth driving a competitor off the road for.

#7963 Sof1

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 00:26

Lets make this as simple as possible:

MSC has won 7 WDCs. That is all that matters! When the day comes where someone does that, no matter what car they are driving or what position they have in their team, only then you can come back and talk about MSC. For now, whatever anyone says is just nonsense. The numbers are there and no one has achieved them so far. PERIOD!

#7964 Frans

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 00:47

It's not winning what counts, for the real sportloving fans, or how many, but HOW.


For Schumacher fans none of that matters, because only HE can walk on water.


Or should I try that in German?;)

#7965 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 00:54

That is all that matters!

No, it's not. Really, it's just not.

#7966 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 01:00

No, it's not. Really, it's just not.

of course it's not

the thing is anything somebody that is hated achieves => doesn't matter
what anybody else as an expert behind a keyboard can imagine => does matter

7 times wdc = a living legend. nothing can change that

#7967 genespleen

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 01:27

It's not winning what counts, for the real sportloving fans, or how many, but HOW.


For Schumacher fans none of that matters, because only HE can walk on water.


Or should I try that in German?;)


This is *such* B.S.

There may be a few diehard Schu fanatics for whom the guy can do wrong, but for most of us mere fans, we see an extraordinarily talented driver, whose speed and focus dominated the sport for a decade, but who also was flawed by a combination of sometimes over-the-top ruthlessness, and sometimes "red-mist" errors. To say that fans see him as someone who "can walk on water" merely sets up a strawman, and is too-often the debating tactic of the simple-minded.

The romantic notion that prior to Senna and Schumacher, F1 drivers were oh-so-much-more sporting is a bit naive.

#7968 SparkPlug

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 02:48

This is *such* B.S.

There may be a few diehard Schu fanatics for whom the guy can do wrong, but for most of us mere fans, we see an extraordinarily talented driver, whose speed and focus dominated the sport for a decade, but who also was flawed by a combination of sometimes over-the-top ruthlessness, and sometimes "red-mist" errors. To say that fans see him as someone who "can walk on water" merely sets up a strawman, and is too-often the debating tactic of the simple-minded.

The romantic notion that prior to Senna and Schumacher, F1 drivers were oh-so-much-more sporting is a bit naive.

That notion is made up by those who've not watched the sport before the 90s.

BTW, good assessment there. I think you speak for much of the F1 watching public who are not Schumacher fans. I too believe the same about him, an extraordinarily talented driver, who, sometimes, when in critical situations, pushed the lines of sportsmanship due to his uncontrollable desire to win. But thats not what Schumacher is : Its only part of what he is. An ugly part nevertheless, but I remember him for his heroics behind the steering wheel more than his imperfections.

Most people who sit behind the comfort of their computer screens, and spit venom on sportsmen like Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton, dont know a thing about the kind of effort these guys put into their careers. There is decades of blood, sweat and tears that goes into guys like these that make it to the top of a professional sport. When push comes to shove, in a title decider, Schumacher wasnt nearly as composed or "gentlemanly" as Hill was or Button is. Does that take away any of his records ? No it doesnt

Some people are better at handling a tight situation in the sport than others. Its clear Schumacher isnt one of them. So what ? How does that "diminish his achievements" in any way whatsoever ?

To be so judgemental about a drivers' behaviour is completely insane.

Edited by SparkPlug, 01 December 2010 - 02:52.


#7969 baddog

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:05

What has always grated on me is that those who judge Schumacher so harshly just never apply these criteria to everyone else.. they either cannot or will not see the incidents that should, in fairness, similarly marr the careers of other pominent drivers.

Thnk of Damon Hill, who on causing an accident in a dangerous corner, said 'I was bored of sitting behind the guy'
Or Rubens who caused (in a fit pf pique) another driver to drive half a lap of monaco with a foreign object in his front wing.
Or Webber, who has taken half the field out in insane defence moves at one time or another.
etc etc
They pretty much all have a laundry list of incidents where they behaved in a way that was cavalier about causing accidents.

Just because Mika Hakkinen was (once he had his accident and grew up anyway) a seemingly perfect on track gentleman, does not mean that that is very common let alone typical. it is not and never has been.

People were more cautious in earlier decades because they did not want to die or kill someone and that was a likely outcome of an accident. If things then had been as safe as they were now there is no reason to imagine people would have behaved better. They never did in life in general so why in motor racing? Its all rose tinted glasses.

#7970 Raelene

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:07

That notion is made up by those who've not watched the sport before the 90s.

BTW, good assessment there. I think you speak for much of the F1 watching public who are not Schumacher fans. I too believe the same about him, an extraordinarily talented driver, who, sometimes, when in critical situations, pushed the lines of sportsmanship due to his uncontrollable desire to win. But thats not what Schumacher is : Its only part of what he is. An ugly part nevertheless, but I remember him for his heroics behind the steering wheel more than his imperfections.

Most people who sit behind the comfort of their computer screens, and spit venom on sportsmen like Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton, dont know a thing about the kind of effort these guys put into their careers. There is decades of blood, sweat and tears that goes into guys like these that make it to the top of a professional sport. When push comes to shove, in a title decider, Schumacher wasnt nearly as composed or "gentlemanly" as Hill was or Button is. Does that take away any of his records ? No it doesnt

Some people are better at handling a tight situation in the sport than others. Its clear Schumacher isnt one of them. So what ? How does that "diminish his achievements" in any way whatsoever ?

To be so judgemental about a drivers' behaviour is completely insane.



Excellent Post :up: :up:

People like Sep are simply here to troll. No one who knows even a little bit about F1 would say that MS is not a good driver. It's ok for him to think he's not the best - but to say he's only an average driver is insane.

#7971 DarthRonzo

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 04:02

That notion is made up by those who've not watched the sport before the 90s.

BTW, good assessment there. I think you speak for much of the F1 watching public who are not Schumacher fans. I too believe the same about him, an extraordinarily talented driver, who, sometimes, when in critical situations, pushed the lines of sportsmanship due to his uncontrollable desire to win. But thats not what Schumacher is : Its only part of what he is. An ugly part nevertheless, but I remember him for his heroics behind the steering wheel more than his imperfections.

Most people who sit behind the comfort of their computer screens, and spit venom on sportsmen like Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton, dont know a thing about the kind of effort these guys put into their careers. There is decades of blood, sweat and tears that goes into guys like these that make it to the top of a professional sport. When push comes to shove, in a title decider, Schumacher wasnt nearly as composed or "gentlemanly" as Hill was or Button is. Does that take away any of his records ? No it doesnt

Some people are better at handling a tight situation in the sport than others. Its clear Schumacher isnt one of them. So what ? How does that "diminish his achievements" in any way whatsoever ?

To be so judgemental about a drivers' behaviour is completely insane.

Well, I don't wanna go into lenghts about this issue, but, IMO, all the racing guys you've mentioned have very debatable psyco behaviour.

The "uncontrollable desire to win" transported to the business world could mean a financial executive to committ a fraud and make up the numbers to keep his/her job or even get promoter at the expense of a more capable professional.
Is it a behaviour to be praised or condemned in your judgement ?

I've read Senna's bios, but couldn't ID why such a strong desire to win and I don't agree with some of his behaviourism either.
Schumacher was the son of a go kart janitor that was despised by the rich competitors. Didn't help being managed by Flav and Weber.
Alonso ask other people to crash so he can raise his chances of winning. Didn't help being managed by Flav.
Lewis does some minor cheats behind the SC, like in Australia and Valencia.

In fact there used to be a highet level of sportmanship, specially at the times of Sir Jack, Emerson and Lauda.
However, from time to time, someone comes to break the code of honor to gain some advantage. Then the crowd copy the behaviour - to defend themselves - lowering the overall standard.
It happened to Alan Jones, Senna, Schumy and Alonso.

Stewart wasn't an hypocrite when he complain about nowhadays drivers behaviour bcs he lived the Code of Honor, that existed partly bcs cars were fragile and death was present to races. So rogue behaviour on track was really threatening their lives.
Emerson was the Driver Steward that imposed the biggest number of penalties to drivers/teams in 2010.
So, yes... there was a higuer level of chivalry in F1.

Edited by DarthRonzo, 01 December 2010 - 04:08.


#7972 Zoe

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:29

In fact there used to be a highet level of sportmanship, specially at the times of Sir Jack, Emerson and Lauda.


Or, as Lauda (I at least think it was him) once put it: There were simply less cameras.

Zoe


#7973 ivand911

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 08:44

In F1 at the moment there is: one 7 time WDC,one 2 time WDC and 3 one timers. Who is superior to the others? It is tough one? Even Michael is last one in the race ,he is still Superior. In every group picture he is still Number 1. When he is at F1 race he is still Numero Uno. Every time ,all the time, forever. :rotfl:
About Nico I always say he is not worst than top drivers. If I said something was against his fans, not him. Usually Michael haters try to make Nico bad/average driver. Not me. But, you will never see me in Nico thread. I don't care.

#7974 Yorkie

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:01

In F1 at the moment there is: one 7 time WDC,one 2 time WDC and 3 one timers. Who is superior to the others? It is tough one? Even Michael is last one in the race ,he is still Superior. In every group picture he is still Number 1. When he is at F1 race he is still Numero Uno. Every time ,all the time, forever. :rotfl:
About Nico I always say he is not worst than top drivers. If I said something was against his fans, not him. Usually Michael haters try to make Nico bad/average driver. Not me. But, you will never see me in Nico thread. I don't care.

He use to be numero uno

#7975 cheapracer

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:37

Who cares about the past? What's relevant is that MS is crap *now*.


John Rambo cared about the past actually, you discredit his name..




#7976 cheapracer

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:43

Or, as Lauda once put it: There were simply less cameras.

Zoe


Indeed Lauda and well said.

Even when theres plenty of cameras around it's still impossible to track most of whats really happening and even then you are reliant on the camera angle offered which often distorts who's really at fault. I think 'blimp cam' from way overhead would be the only reliable angle but thats rare.


#7977 Johnrambo

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:53

John Rambo cared about the past actually, you discredit his name..


No not really. He got over the past in the first film.

#7978 cheapracer

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:54

ROC is not F1


Indeed it is not and I fully agree but how come this is referenced as nothing to do with the skills of F1 yet his average Sportscar career is often referenced?

Could it shockingly be that he is a winner at ROC but, as mentioned, just average in a Sortscar?

Nah, whats got into me, sorry for the insinuation ....... :lol:

He use to be numero uno


He did indeed;

1994
1995
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004

Hmm let me count that - Wow, I get 7 times WDC, amazing!!

Edited by cheapracer, 01 December 2010 - 12:54.


#7979 Scotracer

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 13:10

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#7980 aditya-now

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 14:23

Cheapracer & SeanValen ,

don't you know that Schumacher is the luckiest,most overated F1 driver in the history of the sport ?

Becuase apparently from 1994 to 2006 F1 had offered him very WEAK or no-competetion at all...

When he was winning his strings of championships for Ferrari , some journos and arm-chair experts were saying Schumacher never faced real competition like in the Prost-Senna days ... (that was their excuse)

Now since 2007, their saying that competition is at it's highest ( coincidance when he retired and Hamilton's arrival :rotfl: )

Wow , Schumacher really lucked out did'nt he ? His competition was better and alot tougher PRE-1994 and it's now alot stronger POST-2006 ....


You definitely have a point there, 7timesbetter :D
2010 supports your views - Schumacher comes back in a highly competitive field and look how average he is. Even a Rosberg who hasn´t won a race yet drives circles around Mighty Michael.

I wouldn´t go as far as calling him the most overrated F1 driver in history, though. You are being a bit extreme there....


#7981 dde

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 14:45

You definitely have a point there, 7timesbetter :D
2010 supports your views - Schumacher comes back in a highly competitive field and look how average he is. Even a Rosberg who hasn´t won a race yet drives circles around Mighty Michael.

I wouldn´t go as far as calling him the most overrated F1 driver in history, though. You are being a bit extreme there....



Indeed. Given what Prost has showed at the ROC event, one can say that the drivers of the 80's are the most overrated of all times.

#7982 Wheels23

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 14:53

Michael = Overrated F1 driver?

Wait what?

Look at his record and how long he has lasted in F1, there is no way he is overrated. I have noticed one thing though, one reason why people hate Michael Schumacher because they don't like his style, the 'take no prisoners' mentality, not just here but a lot of places. I love that mentality, you are there to win not to make numbers and you will use very advantage you can take.

Anyway ROC I always saw as just an exhibition thing. I mean you can't tell who's better or not, it is just for fun and that's why I think. How you can manage to measure driving standards and who is better than whom just doesn't make sense.

#7983 ivand911

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 15:34

Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche:
"We have been in F1 for some time and we're staying there for the longer term. We don't want to be deciding each year whether we are in or out. And we didn't sign a one-year contract with Michael Schumacher, we signed for three years," he pointed out.
http://www.gpupdate....-expected-more/
Three years sounds gooood to me. :clap: Two more years with Michael. Are Michael fans lucky or what? :smoking:

Edited by ivand911, 01 December 2010 - 15:44.


#7984 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 19:39

Hi everyone! I have no special driving skills and I'm completely average, just came on here to say hello, oh that reminds me, I have to go and arrange an undisputed No1 contract with a high level F1 team, earn millions and win a record amount of championships, anyone can do it apparently. See you all later!


WOW!

Can I be your number two? I promise I won't whinge about it later on.

#7985 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 19:54

You definitely have a point there, 7timesbetter :D
2010 supports your views - Schumacher comes back in a highly competitive field and look how average he is. Even a Rosberg who hasn´t won a race yet drives circles around Mighty Michael.

I wouldn´t go as far as calling him the most overrated F1 driver in history, though. You are being a bit extreme there....


Aditya, IIRC you rated Schumacher as the second best driver of all time, right?

#7986 cheapracer

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:17

Anyway ROC I always saw as just an exhibition thing. I mean you can't tell who's better or not,


I think you underestimate the level of competitiveness of these guys in everything they do, it's "only" an "exhibition thing" when they lose.

It's that competitiveness that got them to where they are now.

Upon saying that I agree it shouldn't be used as a gage of their abilities for or against.


#7987 Spa95

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:23

Must read: http://translate.goo...=...l=&ie=UTF-8

:)

#7988 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:49

Must read: http://translate.goo...=...l=&ie=UTF-8

:)


ty. That's interesting, explains some things, maybe the reshuffle of the race engineers too.


#7989 Spa95

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:53

ty. That's interesting, explains some things, maybe the reshuffle of the race engineers too.

Yes, although the Google translation muddles up some sentences and words. For example, when he talks about the F-Duct problem in "Spain" he talks about Spa.

Edited by Spa95, 02 December 2010 - 10:53.


#7990 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:11

Yes, although the Google translation muddles up some sentences and words. For example, when he talks about the F-Duct problem in "Spain" he talks about Spa.


This is a very doubtful theory of mine, so take it with a pinch of salt please, but: I had the feeling last year that Clear was playing mind games when he was RB's race engineer, there were doubt's circulating about the data sharing during the season. This year many times in FP MS was slightly faster than NR, then in qualy's Nico all at once found a few tenths, sometimes even more. It sure seemed like NR had found last minute adjustments to his setup which maybe MS was not privy to by then. Clear, I think, at least professionally is one of the best race engineers out there, with extreme setup know-how, don't forget he schooled himself trying to extract performance from the dogs Honda has put on the grid the past years. Clear does not like MS, that is not a secret. I am really curious now about Clear's new position in the team. Please don't bash, I am not trying to make excuses for MS here. Any thoughts?

Edited by Szoelloe, 02 December 2010 - 11:19.


#7991 ivand911

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:30

This is a very doubtful theory of mine, so take it with a pinch of salt please, but: I had the feeling last year that Clear was playing mind games when he was RB's race engineer, there were doubt's circulating about the data sharing during the season. This year many times in FP MS was slightly faster than NR, then in qualy's Nico all at once found a few tenths, sometimes even more. It sure seemed like NR had found last minute adjustments to his setup which maybe MS was not privy to by then. Clear, I think, at least professionally is one of the best race engineers out there, with extreme setup know-how, don't forget he schooled himself trying to extract performance from the dogs Honda has put on the grid the past years. Clear does not like MS, that is not a secret. I am really curious now about Clear's new position in the team. Please don't bash, I am not trying to make excuses for MS here. Any thoughts?

From what I understand Clear is out of the racing team, he is staying in Brackley. Shovlin is now Main race team engineer(he oversee both driver teams).

Edited by ivand911, 02 December 2010 - 11:31.


#7992 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:36

I knew about Shovlin's new positin but haven't heard about Clear's. So he will be stationed in Brackley as what?

#7993 ry1808

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 12:38

I have worked with Jock and he is not one of the best race engineers out there, and that opinion is shared by a number of people. That is all I can say really.

#7994 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 12:56

I have worked with Jock and he is not one of the best race engineers out there, and that opinion is shared by a number of people. That is all I can say really.


I readily accept, since I have never worked with Jock, and my opinion is not a professional one by any means. Thanks for the info. :)

#7995 ry1808

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 13:03

I'll add a bit more, why not. Jock is a good guy and knows F1 inside out but has a habit of putting his foot in it at times and suffers from brain fade and says the must stupid thing or shows a real lack of understanding of the basics. At one race he was heard to come on the team radio and ask what lap it was! But you know he gets the job done most of the time.

When BAR was founded he was JV's race engineer, the main man if you like and then over time when JB came in he got left with the Sato and then Rubens who didn't get on with him as well as he would have liked I don't think. So over the last few years he has been pushed to the side and it is all about Shov now.

#7996 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 13:06

I'll add a bit more, why not. Jock is a good guy and knows F1 inside out but has a habit of putting his foot in it at times and suffers from brain fade and says the must stupid thing or shows a real lack of understanding of the basics. At one race he was heard to come on the team radio and ask what lap it was! But you know he gets the job done most of the time.

When BAR was founded he was JV's race engineer, the main man if you like and then over time when JB came in he got left with the Sato and then Rubens who didn't get on with him as well as he would have liked I don't think. So over the last few years he has been pushed to the side and it is all about Shov now.


thx again mate. Since we are talking about it, if I may ask, is Shovlin ok in that respect?

#7997 ry1808

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 13:27

Shov is good, but again he makes mistakes, like ever driver, ever engineer makes a mistake. But I got the impression that with Shov they where not quite so much of a 'school-boy' error like with Jocky.

Although saying that I remember one year when they had the one-lap qualifying (2005?) JB was on his quick lap an Shov picked the wrong car on the track map, there was only two to choose from, and went on the radio whilst JB was flat through Becketts. The reply he got wasn't the best, lets jut say it was a good thing they didn't have driver-pit radio on TV then!

#7998 ivand911

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 13:44

What is your opinion about new team racing engineers for 2011? Thanks for the info.

#7999 Yorkie

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 14:29

Indeed it is not and I fully agree but how come this is referenced as nothing to do with the skills of F1 yet his average Sportscar career is often referenced?

Could it shockingly be that he is a winner at ROC but, as mentioned, just average in a Sortscar?

Nah, whats got into me, sorry for the insinuation ....... :lol:



He did indeed;

1994
1995
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004

Hmm let me count that - Wow, I get 7 times WDC, amazing!!

Well i dont know much about Sportscars nor do i care, i just know Schumi was mega when he first came into F1.

2004 is quite a time ago now, you could argue he lost his numero uno status when in 2006 Alonso beat him in a close fight in cars that were quite equal over the season, and Schumi turns 42 soon and he admits himself that he's probably not as good as he once was. Then apart from Alonso also add in the likes of Lewis, Vettel, Kubica and Rosberg, i would say Schumi is a more of a bit player now

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#8000 Yorkie

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 14:47

Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche:
"We have been in F1 for some time and we're staying there for the longer term. We don't want to be deciding each year whether we are in or out. And we didn't sign a one-year contract with Michael Schumacher, we signed for three years," he pointed out.
http://www.gpupdate....-expected-more/
Three years sounds gooood to me. :clap: Two more years with Michael. Are Michael fans lucky or what? :smoking:

After 3 years then there should be no excuse

This is a very doubtful theory of mine, so take it with a pinch of salt please, but: I had the feeling last year that Clear was playing mind games when he was RB's race engineer, there were doubt's circulating about the data sharing during the season. This year many times in FP MS was slightly faster than NR, then in qualy's Nico all at once found a few tenths, sometimes even more. It sure seemed like NR had found last minute adjustments to his setup which maybe MS was not privy to by then. Clear, I think, at least professionally is one of the best race engineers out there, with extreme setup know-how, don't forget he schooled himself trying to extract performance from the dogs Honda has put on the grid the past years. Clear does not like MS, that is not a secret. I am really curious now about Clear's new position in the team. Please don't bash, I am not trying to make excuses for MS here. Any thoughts?

Reading the article it says the set up of the car favours the faster driver which tends to be Rosberg