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#8151 baddog

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 23:02

Translation: I am unable to refute SlateGray's assertions.

So baddog I will accept your lack of a measured and balanced counter argument as deferral to the opinion of the motor sport expert Moss and the TV viewer / fourmer SlateGray.

:)

The rest of your post contained one substantive sentence, 'Seeing how Schumacher is not even close to the top in his chosen racing specialty anymore' which I consider patent nonsense (honestly tell me that in the last 1/3 of the season Michael was not 'close to the top' of single seater circuit racing?) then you may understand why I summarised.

Edited by baddog, 07 December 2010 - 23:03.


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#8152 intothepits

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 23:10

You got it daddio. up.gif

PS: please elaborate on this comment of yours for us please...


QUOTE (SEP @ Dec 4 2010, 00:48) *
POk,. what if he beats Nico next year? Michael will be older, so what will be the excuse for 2010 ´s performance?

Please, forget this "he is old" bs. Rubens is 39 and spanked Michael driving an inferior car!


The thing is, Rubens did actually spank Schumacher on many occasion in an inferior car.

Yes, Schumacher finished above (just one place) in the WDC points, but that was going to happen as standard because the Mercedes was a much better car than the Williams, but there was many times Rubens impressed against Schumacher.

I think if Rubens was in Rosberg's place and was Schumacher's teammate for example, he would have EASILY beat Schumacher, Scumacher was lacklustre all year, I know he's back from a 3 year comeback, but Rubens performed much better than the guy whilst in an overall inferior car.

It makes you wonder why Ross Brawn, got rid of Rubens in the first place, the team would have achieved many more WCC points with Rubens and Nico Rosberg.

Edited by intothepits, 07 December 2010 - 23:19.


#8153 Yorkie

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 23:22

The thing is, Rubens did actually spank Schumacher on many occasion in an inferior car.

Yes, Schumacher finished above (just one place) in the WDC points, but that was going to happen as standard because the Mercedes was a much better car than the Williams, but there was many times Rubens impressed against Schumacher.

I think if Rubens was in Rosberg's place and was Schumacher's teammate for example, he would have EASILY beat Schumacher, Scumacher was lacklustre all year, I know he's back from a 3 year comeback, but Rubens performed much better than the guy whilst in an overall inferior car.

It makes you wonder why Ross Brawn, got rid of Rubens in the first place, the team would have achieved many more WCC points with Rubens and Nico Rosberg.

Rubens can be a bit of a whinger though, didnt he suggest the team were favouring Jenson?

#8154 intothepits

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 23:30

Why is he a whinger? Are we talking about Germany 09 where the team quite clearly didn't take Rubens strategy as main focus compared to Jenson? That will be it.. and they did favour Jenson, Jenson being the younger guy and everything looking more attractive to have as your World Champ...


Ashame that didn't work out though lol, because he pished off to McLaren.

Are we also talking about Schumacher blocking him at the Korean GP Qualifying? Totally valid comments from Rubens actually.

Or should we go to the Hungarian GP of 2010, is Rubens wrong to be disappointed at such a rather awful move from Schumacher... I really don't think so if you look at it objectively.

Definitely though, Rubens and Rosberg would have been much better for Brawn/Mercedes than Schumacher and Rosberg. There is no question. People were expecting much more from Schumcher, (including those in the paddock) seems it's a case of risk management now to not make look Schumacher so bad. "Let's protect him" is very much the idea on Mercedes mind at the moment.

It's totally see through, if you have any skills of actually being perceptive in any way what so ever.

#8155 Muz Bee

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 23:37

I think if Rubens was in Rosberg's place and was Schumacher's teammate for example, he would have EASILY beat Schumacher, Scumacher was lacklustre all year, I know he's back from a 3 year comeback, but Rubens performed much better than the guy whilst in an overall inferior car.

It makes you wonder why Ross Brawn, got rid of Rubens in the first place, the team would have achieved many more WCC points with Rubens and Nico Rosberg.

1. We don't know to what extent if any the Williams was inferior to the Mercedes, Nico may be a very class act. He seemed to make last year's Williams look P4ish for much of the season AND thrashed his teammate.
2. The projected Mercedes F1 lineup for 2010 was Button and Rosberg until Jenson shocked Brawn with his McLaren deal. I tend to agree that Rubens may have performed better than Michael, particularly early on but that is pure speculation. What has kept people amused here for so long is the squabble over Michael's thrashing by his teammate which apparently not everyone can see with their own (Two?) eyes!!!

#8156 intothepits

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 23:41

Come on Muz, Williams was far inferior to the previous WCC/WDC's, the car itself this season wasn't great, but was definitely better than the usual midfield.

#8157 iakhtar

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 23:49

Rubens and Rosberg would have been a bigger disaster for the team judging by the internal problems being suffered by one side of the garage imo and if they are indeed true then judging MS' performance this year is quite pointless, better to wait for next season for a more complete picture.

#8158 Yorkie

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 23:54

Why is he a whinger? Are we talking about Germany 09 where the team quite clearly didn't take Rubens strategy as main focus compared to Jenson? That will be it.. and they did favour Jenson, Jenson being the younger guy and everything looking more attractive to have as your World Champ...


Ashame that didn't work out though lol, because he pished off to McLaren.

Are we also talking about Schumacher blocking him at the Korean GP Qualifying? Totally valid comments from Rubens actually.

Or should we go to the Hungarian GP of 2010, is Rubens wrong to be disappointed at such a rather awful move from Schumacher... I really don't think so if you look at it objectively.

Definitely though, Rubens and Rosberg would have been much better for Brawn/Mercedes than Schumacher and Rosberg. There is no question. People were expecting much more from Schumcher, (including those in the paddock) seems it's a case of risk management now to not make look Schumacher so bad. "Let's protect him" is very much the idea on Mercedes mind at the moment.

It's totally see through, if you have any skills of actually being perceptive in any way what so ever.

I vaguely remember a race where Rubens thought he should have won but for poor strategy and he dissed his team on telly, only for Ross to have to tell him that his race pace in one phase of the race was poor. Also i remember Brazil after Rubens did his stop he had Lewis all over him, Lewis had yet to stop, he complained to the team that is car was now longer any good for some reason, they had to tell him that Lewis was carrying much less fuel than him.

#8159 ktsayshi

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 02:48

Rubens and Rosberg would have been a bigger disaster for the team judging by the internal problems being suffered by one side of the garage imo and if they are indeed true then judging MS' performance this year is quite pointless, better to wait for next season for a more complete picture.


From Craig Scarborough (a.k.a ScarbsF1):

@MisterPigz the melting floor affected both drivers, MS had F-duct issues at two races. Altho this isnt justification for his pace in 2010.


@s2ksandy Yes NR had the same car, he was used to bridgestones and could overcome its handling. But both W01s had the hot floor issue.


Both posted Dec. 6, 2010:

https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1

Edited by ktsayshi, 08 December 2010 - 02:48.


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#8160 cheapracer

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 04:25

the dirty driving cheater we saw on the track this season and every other season. All class that Schumacher


You can back that up with facts of course.

I'll even help get you started, official incidents 1997 and 2006, now help us out with the other 13 years, I'll even accept incidents of arrogance in lieu of cheats - otherwise I'm calling you out as a trolling liar ......


way to refute and discredit what Moss said about Schumacher


If you read my post above I mention my respect for Barry Sheene as a commentator, Sheene was no MS fan by a long, long shot :lol: even having to basically be told to shutup by Murray Walker once on air so from that you should realise that it's not people who discredit Schumacher who are targeted but rather the dribble that comes out of their mouths and Moss needs very absorbent bibs and that was well before Schumacher came along, I even remember his mouth annoying the crap out of me at Bathurst 1976 (where he was quite slow).

Amusing that in the Gilles special Moss should give Gilles his support where in fact Gilles was not only quite a dirty driver but some of the antics he pulled on track would have him disqualified from driving in this day and age such as driving 3 wheeled cars leaking oil on the racing line in the self interest of getting back to the pits etc. - far worse than anything in recent F1. But then again and no doubt "Mouth For Sale" Moss was being paid for it.

Be interesting when Moss has to make a public appearance (if it happens) with Schumacher with the Benz connection.


#8161 cheapracer

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 04:56

Of course you do, but he (Hill) had of been anti-Schumi he would have been canondised as well :lol:


Obviously you were not around in the mid 90's. :lol:




#8162 Norm

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 05:09

You can back that up with facts of course.

I'll even help get you started, official incidents 1997 and 2006, now help us out with the other 13 years, I'll even accept incidents of arrogance in lieu of cheats - otherwise I'm calling you out as a trolling liar ......




If you read my post above I mention my respect for Barry Sheene as a commentator, Sheene was no MS fan by a long, long shot :lol: even having to basically be told to shutup by Murray Walker once on air so from that you should realise that it's not people who discredit Schumacher who are targeted but rather the dribble that comes out of their mouths and Moss needs very absorbent bibs and that was well before Schumacher came along, I even remember his mouth annoying the crap out of me at Bathurst 1976 (where he was quite slow).

Amusing that in the Gilles special Moss should give Gilles his support where in fact Gilles was not only quite a dirty driver but some of the antics he pulled on track would have him disqualified from driving in this day and age such as driving 3 wheeled cars leaking oil on the racing line in the self interest of getting back to the pits etc. - far worse than anything in recent F1. But then again and no doubt "Mouth For Sale" Moss was being paid for it.

Be interesting when Moss has to make a public appearance (if it happens) with Schumacher with the Benz connection.


I really doubt that you ever saw some of the driver's you have claimed to have watch race. Over the last couple of years I have read your comments and though you claim this superior knowledge of the sport you continue to prove that you are just opinionated and with those you disagree with you are insulting.

To suggest that Gilles was "dirty" is way off the mark. Too many drivers, team bosses, pundits, whomever have always said that Gilles was always fair. Competitive yes, but fair and honest. I never held much respect for your views. Your claims I never really paid attention to. You presented yourself as knowledgeable about the sport but have proven you lack any knowledge that would give you any real credibility by such ridiculous comments about Gilles.

I don't bother to post much here anymore for various reasons, I did back when this BB was Atlas. But I felt compelled to tap you on your shoulder today after reading your comments on Gilles. Maybe try to take a step back and really think about what you have said regarding Gilles. He was many things, but dirty was not one of them.


Keke Rosberg Quote:

"To Gilles, racing truly was a sport, which
is why he would never chop you. Something
like that he'd look on with contempt. You
didn't have to be a good driver to do that,
let alone a great one. Anyone could do that.
Gilles was the hardest bastard I ever raced
against, but completely fair. If you'd
beaten him to a corner, he accepted it and
gave you room. Then he'd be right back at
you at the next one! Sure, he took
unbelievable risks - but only with himself -
and that's why I get pissed off now when
people compare Senna with him. Gilles was
a giant of a driver, yes, but he was also a
great man."

#8163 cheapracer

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 06:35

you continue to prove that you are just opinionated and with those you disagree with you are insulting.

I never held much respect for your views.


:lol: So you disagree with me and you insult me and thats different how Mr Hypocrite...?

Oh boo hoo I won't sleep tonight, your hero is subjected to some critic? Feel free to start a Gilles thread and I'll be quite happy to submit.






#8164 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 13:12

Posted Image

#8165 ivand911

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 14:11

PDLR:
"I think, but can also be wrong, that there are two special driver out there. Fernando and Hamilton. For me, these are the only two drivers who have something special. Just as Nadal and Federer in tennis," estimates de la Rosa . "I say currently because things can change quickly. It may change in the next season already. It is not always like that, look only on Schumacher. They are the two best and most special drivers. This year, Alonso better than Hamilton. "
http://www.motorspor...g_10120302.html

#8166 merschu

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 16:28

Schumacher defends his decision to return to F1

After three years in retirement, Schumacher returned to F1 with the new Mercedes team, but has struggled to make an impact on the race track, finishing this year's season in a disappointing ninth place.It has led many to wonder why the racing legend has returned to sport. But amid the gossip and allegations, the 41-year-old has defended his decision.

He told CNN: "I enjoy it. I feel I have the right to do what I enjoy. Whether I put in dispute my reputation...I just feel good about my decision and I have so much support from people.""I certainly want to make it a successful return," he continued. "I'm only happy if I'm back on the winning road with the team. This is what I'm working for, this is the joy of the passion for Formula 1."

Finnish F1 driver for Team Lotus Heikki Kovalainen told CNN the criticisms towards Schumacher were unfair.
"People had high expectations, people expected him to win. But (Mercedes) didn't have a car to win and second of all, things have changed since he left Formula 1."

Fellow F1 champion Alain Prost said no-one should judge or criticize a driver of his caliber, saying, "For me, it is difficult, almost impossible to go back to the title after three years...But if there's one driver who'd be able to do it, I think it's Michael."

Team principal and co-owner of Mercedes, Ross Brawn, admits the team has had a disappointing year and credits some of that to Schumacher.

"It's been disappointing, in overall performance, we haven't had the car, Michael's taken a little time to get up to the performance he'll be able to deliver. I've seen patches of that performance...the last few races of the season was the Michael Schumacher I expected to see.But on a more positive note, Brawn added: "Now it's all coming together and I think next year we're going to have a really exciting time."

Schumacher admits it's been a sluggish return to the track, but remains positive, saying: "It's certainly not as successful as I thought initially and many other people have thought.""But then having such a strong group and team behind, Mercedes pushing it so hard, I have no doubt about success in the future."


http://edition.cnn.c...ends.f1.return/


#8167 Tarzaan

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 21:08

OFF

Former racing driver and team owner Tom Walkinshaw has died.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88672

:(


#8168 aditya-now

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 22:53

OFF

Former racing driver and team owner Tom Walkinshaw has died.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88672

:(


RIP Tom!

He was one of those who made MS.


#8169 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 15:32

Time to put this thread back on TOP :up:

New CNN interview-documentary with Michael Schumacher : Life in the fast-lane ....

http://edition.cnn.c...her.motorsport/

There are 3 parts and lasts about 15 minutes total ...

Talks about his 2010 over-all general view , how he sees his next seasons and more ...

I did'nt know that GQ magazine voted him in October 2010 ''Sportsman of the year'' award ... :up:

Vettel , the newly crowned champion says Schumi is still a threat , and is the biggest name in Motorsport .... EVER .

Go Michael ! Your the best !

Edited by 7timesbetterthantherest, 15 December 2010 - 15:33.


#8170 Massa_f1

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 22:23

Wouldn't listen to Moss on this, hes anti Schumi since day 1



I see Moss is opening his mouth about Schumacher again just weeks after his earlier rant. Wow the guy has a chip on his shoulder. Talk about being overrated what has Moss ever done won a few Gps's sour grapes i think.



#8171 TheMortalBard

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 02:02

Moss is at it again

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/36666.html

And hello to everyone here. New to the forum. Been reading it for ages but decided to be a part of it now. Just for the record my fav drivers were/are MS, AS and KR. I've seen two of them start their F1 careers and watched Senna live 1990 onwards and all his 80s stuff on video. KR is simply the coolest driver ever ;) I am definitely a bigger fan of MS than KR or AS :) I have also watched many races from the earlier decades and its amazing what Fangio, Moss and so many others did in the 50s, 60s and 70s, considering the safety of those days. So huge respect there.

But I will call Moss out on the comments he's been making recently. I think some of it is fair but some of it is totally overboard and makes it sound like he has something personal against MS. MS was silly with that move and he got punished. End of story Moss. Let it go. Sir.

Edited by TheMortalBard, 18 December 2010 - 02:05.


#8172 Diablobb81

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 06:42

Welcome to the forum.

Moss' comments would have meant something if Michael wouldn't have been punished for the move in Hungary. But he was, so the "new" rules have nothing to do with that incident. Just another rant by him.

Edited by Diablobb81, 18 December 2010 - 06:42.


#8173 cheapracer

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 16:48

"But I'm not criticising because Formula One in my mind should be the best of everything"

Yeah Moses errr Moss, including the people who get quoted on it.

As I've aluded to it's "rent a mouth" syndrome, if he makes nice pleasant speeches who wants to listen to him, after all he can't talk about the way he won those WDC's now can he.

Take a leaf from a gentleman like Fangio, go about discussing what you know about only.

#8174 aditya-now

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 21:39

...the "new" rules have nothing to do with that incident. Just another rant by him.


The new rules have very much to do with Hungaroring 2010. Look at the wording.

And, reading those new FIA rules all the memory of the incident might have come back to Sir Stirling, and for a man from his time, such behavior was simply unacceptable. There was a certain code of honor among the drivers back then. In those days to drive like Schumacher did was like attempted murder - a driver like that might have been excluded from the sport altogether.

If you understand the perception and perspective that Moss most probably has, you will understand his "rant" better.


#8175 aditya-now

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 21:43

.

As I've aluded to it's "rent a mouth" syndrome, if he makes nice pleasant speeches who wants to listen to him, after all he can't talk about the way he won those WDC's now can he.


Take a leaf from a gentleman like Fangio, go about discussing what you know about only.


The "rent a mouth" syndrome is very well coined and definitely true with Stewart. Lately Moss also starts to make more and more noises, yet in this instance I agree, his view is right IMHO. Schumacher´s behaviour on (and off) track was unacceptable.

Cheapracer, as you say, Juan Manuel Fangio was above all this, and whenever he appeared at a GP in his later years, everyone went silent with awe. His presence was commanding. The only other driver that I believe would have had the aura to create such an effect in his later years is sadly dead.



#8176 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 01:42

Very interesting post race Suzuka interview



#8177 cheapracer

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 07:18

And, reading those new FIA rules all the memory of the incident might have come back to Sir Stirling, and for a man from his time, such behavior was simply unacceptable. There was a certain code of honor among the drivers back then. In those days to drive like Schumacher did was like attempted murder - a driver like that might have been excluded from the sport altogether.

If you understand the perception and perspective that Moss most probably has, you will understand his "rant" better.


You need to search for Moss's comments on Ascari for example.

This code of honor thing is overstated and romantically done to death, again all part of the rent a mouth syndrome because it needs character to be elleborated on otherwise these old drivers are useless - had these very same men been on tree less, pole less, hell even house less racing tracks that push and shove would be no different from today.

Having watched plenty of hours of old film I say they were no different relative to their circumstance, plenty of pushing and shoving, poking noses in where they didn't belong etc. and can name a number of stand out incidents but how about Moses, errr Moss's chop on Fangio at the last corner of the 1955 Brit GP for example - how 'Schuey' a chop that was :lol:

I understand Moss's perspective quite clearly, talk up big shit, get noticed, make money because I don't have any other useful skills.




#8178 Szoelloe

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:22

The new rules have very much to do with Hungaroring 2010. Look at the wording.

And, reading those new FIA rules all the memory of the incident might have come back to Sir Stirling, and for a man from his time, such behavior was simply unacceptable. There was a certain code of honor among the drivers back then. In those days to drive like Schumacher did was like attempted murder - a driver like that might have been excluded from the sport altogether.

If you understand the perception and perspective that Moss most probably has, you will understand his "rant" better.



Code of honor my axx. They were just as ruthless with each other as nowadays, I would say even more. There is a significant difference though in the consequence: there were no driver safety standards whatsoever. AND they KNEW that.

#8179 aditya-now

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 12:03

There is a significant difference though in the consequence: there were no driver safety standards whatsoever. AND they KNEW that.


Which is exactly my point: in the days of yore a maneuvre like the Hungaroring 2010 Schumacher/Barrichello one would have been regarded as attempted murder. Exactly because there were no driver safety standards.

Nowadays the drivers are maybe a bit too careless, believing in the power of modern safety. That could all end very quickly, as Abu Dhabi 2010 has shown: Michael himself was just a few centimetres away from being executed.


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#8180 cheapracer

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 12:15

Which is exactly my point: in the days of yore a maneuvre like the Hungaroring 2010 Schumacher/Barrichello one would have been regarded as attempted murder. Exactly because there were no driver safety standards.

Nowadays the drivers are maybe a bit too careless, believing in the power of modern safety. That could all end very quickly, as Abu Dhabi 2010 has shown: Michael himself was just a few centimetres away from being executed.


Drivers are not more careless at all, they are simply more ruthless because they are being paid millions of dollars to get results. It's more the case of old time accidents being caused through carelessness from so many casual "Gentlemen" drivers.

I have no idea why you quoted Abu Dhabi, that was simply an accident with the results being out of everybody's control - it wasn't initiated with some sort of aggressive or ruthless move so I don't see the relationship here?


#8181 aditya-now

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 12:21

I have no idea why you quoted Abu Dhabi, that was simply an accident with the results being out of everybody's control - it wasn't initiated with some sort of aggressive or ruthless move so I don't see the relationship here?


You live in Asia, cheapracer, so you may have heard about action/reaction and the law of karma. If Schumi has all the things he did coming back at him, and if it all culminates in one incident, then Lord protect him!!!

Edited by aditya-now, 20 December 2010 - 14:43.


#8182 ivand911

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 14:07

You leave in Asia, cheapracer, so you may have heard about action/reaction and the law of karma. If Schumi has all the things he did coming back at him, and if it all culminates in one incident, then Lord protect him!!!

I don't get this? Senna died because he have to pay for something? Or Ratzenberger? Or every other road (not only track) accident. Or this is your thinking because it is MS? It is just bad luck. But,depend how bad. You can lose tyre, you can blow engine , you can die. Depend which straw you will draw. And this is every day. Going to work, returning from work, going to the shop,going back home. You draw a straw every moment. And if you are lucky you have just puncture.

Edited by ivand911, 20 December 2010 - 14:10.


#8183 aditya-now

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 14:49

I don't get this? Senna died because he have to pay for something? Or Ratzenberger? Or every other road (not only track) accident. Or this is your thinking because it is MS? It is just bad luck. But,depend how bad. You can lose tyre, you can blow engine , you can die. Depend which straw you will draw. And this is every day. Going to work, returning from work, going to the shop,going back home. You draw a straw every moment. And if you are lucky you have just puncture.


This not the place for discussions on karma, Ivan. Just saying that Michael´s accident in Abu Dhabi froze the blood in my veins. It can be over so quickly.

That´s why I think on track behaviour like Hungaroring 2010 should be avoided at any cost, no matter who gets endangered. It´s just not worth it.

#8184 marcoferrari

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 15:52

I see Moss is opening his mouth about Schumacher again just weeks after his earlier rant. Wow the guy has a chip on his shoulder. Talk about being overrated what has Moss ever done won a few Gps's sour grapes i think.


16 GPs, but out of only 66... Only 8 World Champions are better in this and many worse!

#8185 Tarzaan

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 18:09

Moss is at it again

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/36666.html


Somebody call the elevator please... :|

#8186 Callisto

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 18:35

Somebody call the elevator please... :|

Very poor taste :down:

#8187 baddog

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 20:41

You live in Asia, cheapracer, so you may have heard about action/reaction and the law of karma. If Schumi has all the things he did coming back at him, and if it all culminates in one incident, then Lord protect him!!!

Low.



#8188 SeanValen

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 00:25

Very interesting post race Suzuka interview




He was very fast at Suzuka and I think Mercedes really should of unleashed Schumacher to see what could of been done with Hamilton. The car was working and Michael was at Suzuka showing why's he's won there so much. Schumacher at times in 2010 has just been denied potential great moments or rewards for the most bizarre decision making, be it Mercedes or be it FIA docking him points for Monaco which was clearly a legal pass on Alonso. I also remember Rosberg hinding Schumacher's qualifying at Monaco, which could of been mercedes best quali session of the year, not only did Mercedes underperform, the car wasn't working for Schumacher at all tracks, some tracks he knows he went the wrong direction set up wise, but when he was hooked up, it was mercedes themselfs that tripped up Schumacher. All in all a annoying year and tough year to get through, underfunded operation for the returning legend, it was always about 2011 very early in 2010.



Edited by SeanValen, 21 December 2010 - 00:28.


#8189 aditya-now

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:00

...underfunded operation for the returning legend, it was always about 2011 very early in 2010.


Amen.

As usual, he should have been overfunded and given the very best material, as is his right.


#8190 SparkPlug

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 03:03

You live in Asia, cheapracer, so you may have heard about action/reaction and the law of karma. If Schumi has all the things he did coming back at him, and if it all culminates in one incident, then Lord protect him!!!


Somebody call the elevator please... :|


Can we have some sanity around here please ? I dont think this is what one calls good posting by any standards.

Aditya now, you didnt answer the question Ivan posted, are you implying that Senna, GV and others died on the racetrack because "they had things coming back at them" ?

Utterly disgusting post, that, really.

#8191 ivand911

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:38

Somebody call the elevator please... :|

I think he mean it in the good way. That somebody to make sure that Sir Moss will take the elevator this time. This is how I read the post. We don't want to miss him(and his thoughts) next season.


#8192 Hacklerf

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:05

Once again Moss shows how anti Schumi he is, embarrassing

#8193 aditya-now

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:23

Can we have some sanity around here please ? I dont think this is what one calls good posting by any standards.

Aditya now, you didnt answer the question Ivan posted, are you implying that Senna, GV and others died on the racetrack because "they had things coming back at them" ?

Utterly disgusting post, that, really.


Ah, SparkPlug riding the moral high ground.

There may or may not be a causal connection between Hungaroring 2010 and Abu Dhabi 2010 - it is difficult to prove and difficult to disprove. The point is, that had anything worse happened to Michael in Abu Dhabi, how would the "offending" driver (and indeed all of us) have felt? In Abu Dhabi, there was not sign of an liberated attempt, just bad luck and wrong timing. At Hungaroring however, Michael chose to press Barrichello against the wall consciously, which I find disgusting and unworthy of a great sportsmen. Maybe Michael saw in Abu Dhabi how wrong things can possibly go and he will refrain from taking such risks in the future.

It depends on Michael´s consciousness if he is able to see a connection between Hungaroring and Abu Dhabi, be it karmic, philosophical or otherwise, and take the consequences. The difference between the two incidents is that the one was premeditated, the other one was not. The similarity between the two incidents was that in both case we were extremely lucky that nothing worse happened.

SparkPlug, the issue you are really avoiding is the risky driving of MS - and Michael should have learned after all those years.

As for Ivan´s question, I was not implying anything for Senna, GV, Clark or others, this is his, your or whoever´s interpretation, which is disgusting in itself, because I never said that and you try to put such words into my mouth. Talk about manipulative posting.

#8194 aditya-now

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:25

Low.


Low are all the vintage Michael on-track actions put together, but I know it´s difficult for you when someone calls a spade a spade.

#8195 SparkPlug

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 11:09

Ah, SparkPlug riding the moral high ground.

There may or may not be a causal connection between Hungaroring 2010 and Abu Dhabi 2010 - it is difficult to prove and difficult to disprove. The point is, that had anything worse happened to Michael in Abu Dhabi, how would the "offending" driver (and indeed all of us) have felt? In Abu Dhabi, there was not sign of an liberated attempt, just bad luck and wrong timing. At Hungaroring however, Michael chose to press Barrichello against the wall consciously, which I find disgusting and unworthy of a great sportsmen. Maybe Michael saw in Abu Dhabi how wrong things can possibly go and he will refrain from taking such risks in the future.

It depends on Michael´s consciousness if he is able to see a connection between Hungaroring and Abu Dhabi, be it karmic, philosophical or otherwise, and take the consequences. The difference between the two incidents is that the one was premeditated, the other one was not. The similarity between the two incidents was that in both case we were extremely lucky that nothing worse happened.

SparkPlug, the issue you are really avoiding is the risky driving of MS - and Michael should have learned after all those years.

As for Ivan´s question, I was not implying anything for Senna, GV, Clark or others, this is his, your or whoever´s interpretation, which is disgusting in itself, because I never said that and you try to put such words into my mouth. Talk about manipulative posting.

Your post was only concerned with Karma and its consequences. I can see that you're trying to save yourself further embarrassment on the board by talking tangentially and without any real point in your post whatsoever. Fair enough.

#8196 aditya-now

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 11:35

Your post was only concerned with Karma and its consequences. I can see that you're trying to save yourself further embarrassment on the board by talking tangentially and without any real point in your post whatsoever. Fair enough.


And again you are avoiding the real issue discussed here, the recent statements of Sir Stirling Moss in light of the new FIA regulations, that pertain to examples of driving like Hungaroring 2010. That is what sparked off these renewed exchanges. We still do not have you on record praising or distancing yourself from driving antics such as Michael´s at the Hungaroring...do you have an opinion at all?

Concerning karma: quite often I come across terms such as "karma is a bitch" etc. in posts on this BB, so it seems that causality is generally accepted around these quarters. However, only if it concerns "light" events that we can laugh about. As soon as the same principle (and if karma indeed exists, it must work on the light as well as on the heavier cases...) is applied at the more consequential cases than we have a moral uproar here with statements like "low" and "this post is disgusting".

Either avoid mentioning karma at all, or accept it as a working principle in both light and heavier cases. I do mention karma because I know from experience it works, and watching things unfold I take my conclusions.
If you do not comment on "karma´s a bitch" etc, please do not comment on such observations like mine as well. Otherwise you are just seen as making it a topic whenever it suits you.


#8197 BRK

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 14:33

As a descendant of the people that coined the term and laid down the concept ages ago,I'd say some of the talk on here by the bashers betrays their complete lack of understanding of the idea or its modern variant. I've pointed out previously that if MS' stock of ill luck was so bad,he would never have won so much and been so successful in the first place. If he was a seven time champion and won 91 races,clearly-according to these bulls*it interpretations-he must've done seventeen thousand and one truckloads full of good all his life to have deserved it,yeah? Karma has nothing to do with causality-that would be nyaya-and neither have anything to do with morality. Somebody's actions being examined against the backdrop of a clearly biased and flawed value system: doesn't look like its got to do with morality,either. Just a random opinion. The moment you wish death upon a person you'd lose the right to pass judgement upon another's ethical behaviour, so these 'arguments' wouldn't be taken seriously under any system of law or moral code.


This is why I intensely dislike popcorn philosophy and these new age guru types - half knowledge and gross misinterpretation of ideas and notions without making ANY allowance for cultural biases/peculiarities has caused enough trouble and misery in the world already. Not to mention a complete waste of time on irrelevant stuff..

#8198 SparkPlug

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 17:45

And again you are avoiding the real issue discussed here, the recent statements of Sir Stirling Moss in light of the new FIA regulations, that pertain to examples of driving like Hungaroring 2010. That is what sparked off these renewed exchanges. We still do not have you on record praising or distancing yourself from driving antics such as Michael´s at the Hungaroring...do you have an opinion at all?

Concerning karma: quite often I come across terms such as "karma is a bitch" etc. in posts on this BB, so it seems that causality is generally accepted around these quarters. However, only if it concerns "light" events that we can laugh about. As soon as the same principle (and if karma indeed exists, it must work on the light as well as on the heavier cases...) is applied at the more consequential cases than we have a moral uproar here with statements like "low" and "this post is disgusting".

Either avoid mentioning karma at all, or accept it as a working principle in both light and heavier cases. I do mention karma because I know from experience it works, and watching things unfold I take my conclusions.
If you do not comment on "karma´s a bitch" etc, please do not comment on such observations like mine as well. Otherwise you are just seen as making it a topic whenever it suits you.


The real issue is you talking about "bad karma" and how it could get back at Michael and kill him if his Karma is to calculated. Dont mince words and type in double speak. I dont care what you seem to think of my posts, but fact is sometimes you get way out of line in your blinded hatred for one man. Truly sick thoughts in your post wherein you are clearly implying that if karma adds up, you wouldnt be surprised if Michael had a serious injury in his next accident. I would say a ban on posts like that which imply mortal harm on another person is very necessary. It is important to curb such sort of disgusting behaviour on internet forums. Especially by people who spit venom behind the protection of a computer screen.

PS : I dont have to justify my stand about Hungary to you at all. I dont know what makes you think I owe you an explanation. Dont expect any more replies from me on this topic :wave:

Edited by SparkPlug, 21 December 2010 - 17:46.


#8199 dde

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:06

You live in Asia, cheapracer, so you may have heard about action/reaction and the law of karma. If Schumi has all the things he did coming back at him, and if it all culminates in one incident, then Lord protect him!!!


I guess he is not as bad and dirty as Rindt or Senna.

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#8200 cheapracer

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:18

You live in Asia, cheapracer, so you may have heard about action/reaction and the law of karma. If Schumi has all the things he did coming back at him, and if it all culminates in one incident, then Lord protect him!!!


Yeah I'm still waiting for all those "things" to be eleborated on - should be easy as so many people keep mentioning them.

This was my post above somewhere that went unanswered, not the first time similar posts have gone unanswered either ....

You can back that up with facts of course.
I'll even help get you started, official incidents 1997 and 2006, now help us out with the other 13 years, I'll even accept incidents of arrogance in lieu of cheats - otherwise I'm calling you out as a trolling liar ......