Jump to content


Photo

Michael Schumacher (merged)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
20770 replies to this topic

#8601 KiloWatt

KiloWatt
  • Member

  • 1,264 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 24 February 2011 - 15:04

I'm actually looking forward to this season-I think we all know by now the W02's going to start the season in pretty bad shape so I guess expectations are low all around. Not a bad thing as even solid points finishes would be a morale booster for the team. Plus the rustiness would've worn off by now,and we have proper data from last season to compare with during the FPs. Unlike 2010 when he was heading blind into every weekend.


Good luck to him!


Though I see where you're coming from and this isn't really the most appropriate place to discuss it. I'd disagree (for now) with your assessment of the W02's performance. I rather think it will come of age.

Though we are united in our hopes of seeing The F1 Fuhrer do well again (that's an affectionate term, not a derogatory one).

Advertisement

#8602 Fortymark

Fortymark
  • Member

  • 5,809 posts
  • Joined: April 03

Posted 24 February 2011 - 15:23

There is some logic to this argument drivers are getting quicker. F1 magazine rans an article about it a few years ago. i can't remember the detail. But if you look at any sport, people have just got better and better at it, records tumble every year. There is nothing to suggest this evolution is not taking part in f1. I don't buy into Hamilton and Alonso would of blown away Senna or Prost, but i do believe they would shaded them over a season.

E.g everyone is an Alesi fan and regarded him as quick, but in the time he was paired with Prost he was on average 1½ secs a lap slower (you can look that up) If a driver was that far of his team mates pace now, he'd be fired. and you would be laughed of any forum for suggesting a driver so far off his team mate is quick :), So clearly the level which the entire field is performing at is very high.

What i believe is the best of the next generation is always slightly better than the best of the previous, like any sport, however the best of the previous generation are still able to hang with most of the next generation. Hope that makes sense.

And this is where i feel MS will fit in if he gets back to somewhere near his best, able to best most of the field except the top two or three. I feel it is a pity we will never see him in a competative car again.


The biggest evolution in F1 is actually the cars whom get better and better for every year. The drivers today complain about tire degradation, high fuel loads,
poor visability in every damp/wet race, poor balance etc etc.
The cars of today are generating higher G-forces but in many curves the driver rests his head against the cockpit side walls. On a 80:ies or early 90:ies car the driver couldn´t
do that. The races back then also usually lastest for a longer time.

I rewatched a few races from the 80:ies a couple of weeks ago, I was amazed by how much more input the driver had over the race outcome than today.
The whole reliability issue was much more up to the driver, taking care of your tires and fuel which could earn you the race win. In every gearchange you had to
take away one hand of the steering wheel and heel-toe in every downshift, just imagine driving around in Monaco with no powersteering for 2 hours and one hand constant
changing gears and the other one steering the car...
If you missed that a few times you could overrev the engine or break the gearbox.
The race strategy was more or less up to yourself. Pitstops was more like a lottery, lapping cars was sometimes as hard as a real overtaking manouvre etc etc.

#8603 RSNS

RSNS
  • Member

  • 1,512 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 24 February 2011 - 16:35

The biggest evolution in F1 is actually the cars whom get better and better for every year. The drivers today complain about tire degradation, high fuel loads,
poor visability in every damp/wet race, poor balance etc etc.
The cars of today are generating higher G-forces but in many curves the driver rests his head against the cockpit side walls. On a 80:ies or early 90:ies car the driver couldn´t
do that. The races back then also usually lastest for a longer time.

I rewatched a few races from the 80:ies a couple of weeks ago, I was amazed by how much more input the driver had over the race outcome than today.
The whole reliability issue was much more up to the driver, taking care of your tires and fuel which could earn you the race win. In every gearchange you had to
take away one hand of the steering wheel and heel-toe in every downshift, just imagine driving around in Monaco with no powersteering for 2 hours and one hand constant
changing gears and the other one steering the car...
If you missed that a few times you could overrev the engine or break the gearbox.
The race strategy was more or less up to yourself. Pitstops was more like a lottery, lapping cars was sometimes as hard as a real overtaking manouvre etc etc.


Yes, driver input is very different. But today's cars are perhaps not easier to drive. They just require different skills.

#8604 Paco

Paco
  • Member

  • 1,430 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 24 February 2011 - 18:50

Yes, driver input is very different. But today's cars are perhaps not easier to drive. They just require different skills.


The fact that the grid is sooo evenly match with only 0.5secs for the top teams. I feel it goes to show that the cars are way easier to drive, watching them them is almost seems like they are locomotives on rails with drivers making very very very few large errors - more like missing a breaking point by a 1mm :lol: costing a 1/10th and now his lap is rubbish. Sure the drivers are more "busy" in the cockpit tweaking balances, wings, air ducts, fuel maps etc. but as for all out driving, today's cars are miles easier to drive then the 80 and early 90s. I do agree though, it takes a different kind of driver to drive today's F1 cars well.

Different rules, different technologies, different demands on a driver.. Curious to see if Schumi can find a way to pull more out of the 2011 car then he was out of 2010.. this year we'll be able to see if he is still an adaptable racer or if today's cars are simply not suited to his driving style.

#8605 Tardis40

Tardis40
  • Member

  • 759 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 24 February 2011 - 19:26

The competition is close because the plethora of rule changes and restrictions made it that way. Only thing is that it made overtaking even more impossible, so now we have movable bodywork and Kers V2. It's going to be interesting to see how the strategy plays out and how the latest round of innovations work.

Edited by Tardis40, 24 February 2011 - 19:28.


#8606 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,820 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 24 February 2011 - 22:28

Hamilton wouldn't have survived a season in the old dangerous days. Alonso would have prospered.

Alonso bearly survived a season with Hamilton. He can actually barely survive a race with a decent paced team mate

#8607 Buttoneer

Buttoneer
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 17,621 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 24 February 2011 - 22:31

A reminder to all that the topic of conversation is Michael Schumacher, please.

#8608 Kubiccia

Kubiccia
  • Member

  • 1,370 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 25 February 2011 - 00:28

How wrong you are, If MS has times better than Rosberg then the "Mercedes are favouring MS" crowd will start up.

:up: :up:
yeah, you're absolutely right!  ;)

#8609 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,856 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:17

I doubt all of the current drivers would be fast in Fangio's Mercedes.... Now that is truly incredible skills to haul that beast around....


Edited by George Costanza, 25 February 2011 - 05:19.


#8610 black magic

black magic
  • Member

  • 3,962 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:37

truth is they all ahve the same skills, ability to balance a car on the edge and total self belief.

would the modern driver drive an old car/ circuitwith its lack of safety. no way but then the entire attitude to risk and life was also different.

I have no doubt that a schumacher or hamilton racing in the 50's would have been a contender or that fangio with modern fitness would have excelled today.

humans have not changed substantially in 40 yrs, their reflexes are no better, the thrill of driving a car on the limt has not changed.

#8611 Fondmetal

Fondmetal
  • Member

  • 153 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 25 February 2011 - 06:57

What a load of BS, as usual its typical comments from those who dispised MS winning from the early/mid 90's onwards.. Now they see it as a good opportunity to attack him.

Listen, this guy is 7x WC, 91 wins, on of the best ever. I dont think he or his true fans care what people say. He still has the fitness, the reactions are still there (ok, any human would not be as they were during their 20's) the Mercedes has been a dog, Nico didnt exactly blow him away, lets get that into perspective. If Mercedes gives him a good car he will be one of the best out there.

Vettle has so far proved nothing, he is good out in front and in a dominant car, he cannot attack as we saw last year a few times it ends up in tangles. Hamilton, is the next guy from Alonso who is the complete driver.



#8612 JackTorrance

JackTorrance
  • Member

  • 2,065 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 07:11

Listen,



They dont. Its a bash fest filled thread, yet again.

Ive seen schumacher from his early days, and it was evident the man was a great talent, making Brundle look very mediocre in that stick shifted Benetton.

He comes back after 3 years with all the testing restriction and was usually on pace with Rosberg, sometimes a few tenths slower. For an old man he looked better vs his teammate than Massa vs Alonso for instance. Compare it with come back of other champs; Mansell didnt even fit in the car and admitted defeat after only 5 races in 1995, Villeneuve was nowhere in the Renault, Mika was an embarrassment in testing times.

I dont mind criticism based on facts but many posts here are just filled with twisted assumptions designed to finally let go of some unreleased tensions, frustrations and jealousy.

#8613 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 25 February 2011 - 08:50

truth is they all ahve the same skills, ability to balance a car on the edge and total self belief.

would the modern driver drive an old car/ circuitwith its lack of safety. no way but then the entire attitude to risk and life was also different.

I have no doubt that a schumacher or hamilton racing in the 50's would have been a contender or that fangio with modern fitness would have excelled today.

humans have not changed substantially in 40 yrs, their reflexes are no better, the thrill of driving a car on the limt has not changed.

:up:

#8614 Tardis40

Tardis40
  • Member

  • 759 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:24

Michael's CV is so far beyond what any other driver could hope to attain. The wins and the titles will never be matched. The poles possibly. Doesn't leave much room for bragging about other drivers, so the only way out is to try to demean the man lol


#8615 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:37

Michael's CV is so far beyond what any other driver could hope to attain. The wins and the titles will never be matched. The poles possibly. Doesn't leave much room for bragging about other drivers, so the only way out is to try to demean the man lol

He is also a car mechanic by trade, and I think that gives him a little edge when he speaks with engineering staff. :up:

Edited by Sakae, 25 February 2011 - 11:37.


#8616 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:42

He is also a car mechanic by trade, and I think that gives him a little edge when he speaks with engineering staff. :up:

:stoned: He made his apprenticeship years in a VW-workshop (Bergmeister) in my native town and put his golden hands on the old VW-bully of my father.....

#8617 cheapracer

cheapracer
  • Member

  • 10,388 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:13

truth is they all ahve the same skills, ability to balance a car on the edge and total self belief.

would the modern driver drive an old car/ circuitwith its lack of safety. no way but then the entire attitude to risk and life was also different.

I have no doubt that a schumacher or hamilton racing in the 50's would have been a contender or that fangio with modern fitness would have excelled today.

humans have not changed substantially in 40 yrs, their reflexes are no better, the thrill of driving a car on the limt has not changed.


No you are just simply and totally wrong.

Look at any atheletic sport before and now, they run faster (and for longer), they jump higher, they throw further, they hit harder - everything to do with the sportsmen and women has improved through better diet, training, biomechanics and psyhological understanding.

Also F1 drivers come from a huge sea of tens of thousands of wannabees (Karts mostly), if you include kids who start on computer sims then number that as millions, compared to the previous ponds of hundreds way back when.


with all due respect cheapracer :up: , being phisically fit has got nothing to do with talent !


It has everything to do with how long you can keep that talent going, 2 hours in a F1 race is massively demanding on the body and was the scurge of most Japanese F1 drivers - ever notice how fast Japanese drivers are in the wet when the pyshical strains are less? A tired driver can not perform at his best and one of the reasons Senna and MS excelled was due to their fitness levels which all F1 drivers undertake now.

Edited by cheapracer, 25 February 2011 - 12:22.


#8618 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:22

No you are just simply and totally wrong.

Look at any atheletic sport before and now, they run faster (and for longer), they jump higher, they throw further, they hit harder - everything to do with the sportsmen and women has improved through better diet, training, biomechanics and psyhological understanding.

Also F1 drivers come from a huge sea of tens of thousands of wannabees (Karts mostly), if you include kids who start on computer sims then number that as millions, compared to the previous ponds of hundreds way back when.

None of that makes him wrong. The point is that levels of innate talent haven't changed, so if you dropped a young Senna or Clark into today's world and gave them the same access to better fitness training, diet, etc then they would do just fine.

#8619 JackTorrance

JackTorrance
  • Member

  • 2,065 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:30

Michael's CV is so far beyond what any other driver could hope to attain. The wins and the titles will never be matched. The poles possibly. Doesn't leave much room for bragging about other drivers, so the only way out is to try to demean the man lol



yeah, while in reality Schumacher gave more money (50 million dollars) to charity than all other drivers combined. So besides being the greatest driver ever in terms of results, he is also a very open hearted person who shares a big chunk of his personal fortune with the weak. I think his contribution to the tsunami-victims still stands as the biggest made by a single person.

Advertisement

#8620 cheapracer

cheapracer
  • Member

  • 10,388 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:35

:p

None of that makes him wrong. The point is that levels of innate talent haven't changed, so if you dropped a young Senna or Clark into today's world and gave them the same access to better fitness training, diet, etc then they would do just fine.


Thats simply not provable as you have no way to know if previous drivers can achieve the required fitness levels necessary today or that they are intelligent enough to develop a modern car with todays engineers.

Take Satoru Nakajima for example, blindingly fast, no one could touch him in F2 but didn't have the strength to drive modern downforce F1 cars over a race distance (his own admission) and was a front runner every time it rained that required less demand on his body - he obviously had the talent to run at the front in the 60's and 70's but not modern.

It takes more than just "talent" to win in modern F1 where thinking and stanima are in far more demand than any previous era.

#8621 TheMortalBard

TheMortalBard
  • Member

  • 98 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 13:50

http://www.motorspor...p...01180&FS=F1


" .....Certainly it is not possible to turn back the biological clock," Schumacher admitted in interview with ADAC Motorwelt magazine.

"It is a fact that I am not absolutely the same now as I was 10 or 15 years ago.

"But as to whether I am still good enough, I would say yes," he insisted. ..... "


#8622 slaveceru

slaveceru
  • Member

  • 180 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 16:50

No you are just simply and totally wrong.

Look at any atheletic sport before and now, they run faster (and for longer), they jump higher, they throw further, they hit harder - everything to do with the sportsmen and women has improved through better diet, training, biomechanics and psyhological understanding.

Also F1 drivers come from a huge sea of tens of thousands of wannabees (Karts mostly), if you include kids who start on computer sims then number that as millions, compared to the previous ponds of hundreds way back when.




It has everything to do with how long you can keep that talent going, 2 hours in a F1 race is massively demanding on the body and was the scurge of most Japanese F1 drivers - ever notice how fast Japanese drivers are in the wet when the pyshical strains are less? A tired driver can not perform at his best and one of the reasons Senna and MS excelled was due to their fitness levels which all F1 drivers undertake now.

So you are saying that people are becoming better in every area in comparison to previous generations. Give me a break. Technology, technic, training, sport medicine and everything that is connected with training evolved in time but not us. The result of this is that humans are pushing the frontier of their capabilities to the edge. At the end it is stupid to say that Senna would not succed in now days with all the help and technology that is around. He proved that he was one of the best if not the best drivers in his generation but this can not be said jet for Hamilton or Alonso.

#8623 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 16:59

Who cares about drivers from before, now and from the future? Get with this BS out of here.

Edited by ivand911, 25 February 2011 - 16:59.


#8624 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 25 February 2011 - 17:39

:stoned: He made his apprenticeship years in a VW-workshop (Bergmeister) in my native town and put his golden hands on the old VW-bully of my father.....


So, we have one happy customer, don't we? :p

#8625 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 18:05

So, we have one happy customer, don't we? :p

world is little.
His brother Ralf meet his now wife Cora in my town, because his brother had there his work..... :cat:

sorry for OT.

#8626 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 18:13

world is little.
His brother Ralf meet his now wife Cora in my town, because his brother had there his work..... :cat:

sorry for OT.

And your town is?


#8627 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 25 February 2011 - 19:52

And your town is?

 ;) Langenfeld in Germany beside the rhine!

#8628 Fondmetal

Fondmetal
  • Member

  • 153 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 26 February 2011 - 01:27

They dont. Its a bash fest filled thread, yet again.

Ive seen schumacher from his early days, and it was evident the man was a great talent, making Brundle look very mediocre in that stick shifted Benetton.

He comes back after 3 years with all the testing restriction and was usually on pace with Rosberg, sometimes a few tenths slower. For an old man he looked better vs his teammate than Massa vs Alonso for instance. Compare it with come back of other champs; Mansell didnt even fit in the car and admitted defeat after only 5 races in 1995, Villeneuve was nowhere in the Renault, Mika was an embarrassment in testing times.

I dont mind criticism based on facts but many posts here are just filled with twisted assumptions designed to finally let go of some unreleased tensions, frustrations and jealousy.


I agree, I remember Michael Making his debut at Spa, as a 14 year old I was some what stunned to see him put that car 7th on the grid, behind the legends and veterans of 80's. What was even impressive for me was that benetton was always snapping on the tail of the mighty FW14B's and his perfomance in Spain surpasses that of Vettels win in Monza.. he was mega fast and closing Mansell in huge chunks.. untill Mansell extracted all the performance out of his williams. The Benetton was some 50-60 BHP down on the Williams and Mclarens.

#8629 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 26 February 2011 - 12:24

Yep, the majority of current Michael bashers never even saw him back then. I began 1994 as a 50% fan of Michael due to his previous heroics and a 50% fan of Hill for patriotic reasons, but by the half way stage I was totally converted; the sight of that Benetton being rung by the neck to match those on-rails Williams was nothing short of fantastic.

#8630 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,420 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 26 February 2011 - 13:33

yeah, while in reality Schumacher gave more money (50 million dollars) to charity than all other drivers combined. So besides being the greatest driver ever in terms of results, he is also a very open hearted person who shares a big chunk of his personal fortune with the weak. I think his contribution to the tsunami-victims still stands as the biggest made by a single person.


Bigger than some governments if I recall correctly.

#8631 Tardis40

Tardis40
  • Member

  • 759 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 26 February 2011 - 20:33

I'm sure we all know that Michael didn't come from a wealthy family. I've heard the stories about how his Dad got him started in karting on not much more than a hope and a prayer. He got quite a return on his investment, and I'm sure he's very proud of the way his son uses his wealth and influence to help the less fortunate.

When he's done with racing once and for all, I hope Michael gets together with a top notch writer to do a biography with plenty of photos. I'd be first in line for an autographed copy of that book!


#8632 Fondmetal

Fondmetal
  • Member

  • 153 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 26 February 2011 - 21:50

Spanish GP 1992



Schumacher closing in on mansell

http://www.youtube.c...o...der&list=UL

Edited by Fondmetal, 26 February 2011 - 21:53.


#8633 Buttoneer

Buttoneer
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 17,621 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 27 February 2011 - 00:15

Posts deleted. No more trolling, thanks.

#8634 BRK

BRK
  • Member

  • 3,653 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 27 February 2011 - 17:13

Spanish GP 1992



Schumacher closing in on mansell

http://www.youtube.c...o...der&list=UL


Good stuff. :up:

I think it's a miracle race videos like that one have survived on Youtube this long!

#8635 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 February 2011 - 17:44

Young lion. :p Driving on rails.

#8636 Tardis40

Tardis40
  • Member

  • 759 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 27 February 2011 - 19:45

Is there a video of his first win online somewhere?


#8637 randomisation

randomisation
  • New Member

  • 22 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 28 February 2011 - 11:43

I was going to post this sooner but had to wait for my account to be validated. Last week Damon Hill gave a (very enjoyable) speech at the Oxford Union, at the end of which he fielded a series of questions. Unfortunately I wasn't selected to ask my question as we ran out of time, so after the speech a friend and I went to the union bar for a quick drink before leaving. About ten minutes later Damon came into the bar with his wife and a couple of the union people for a quick drink, and just as he was leaving I went over to him and asked him "Damon, if you don't mind me interrupting you to ask a quick question - If hypothetically you were a team principal, and you were able to hire one of either Ayrton or Michael at their peaks, which would it be, and why?". He replied "hmm, very good question...", and after about ten seconds of silence replied "my heart says Ayrton...but my head says Michael". I thought this was a pretty great testament to Michael given how highly Hill thought of Senna (as he alluded to in his speech beforehand), and thought I'd share it here with other MSC fans to enjoy :) .

#8638 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 28 February 2011 - 11:53

I was going to post this sooner but had to wait for my account to be validated. Last week Damon Hill gave a (very enjoyable) speech at the Oxford Union, at the end of which he fielded a series of questions. Unfortunately I wasn't selected to ask my question as we ran out of time, so after the speech a friend and I went to the union bar for a quick drink before leaving. About ten minutes later Damon came into the bar with his wife and a couple of the union people for a quick drink, and just as he was leaving I went over to him and asked him "Damon, if you don't mind me interrupting you to ask a quick question - If hypothetically you were a team principal, and you were able to hire one of either Ayrton or Michael at their peaks, which would it be, and why?". He replied "hmm, very good question...", and after about ten seconds of silence replied "my heart says Ayrton...but my head says Michael". I thought this was a pretty great testament to Michael given how highly Hill thought of Senna (as he alluded to in his speech beforehand), and thought I'd share it here with other MSC fans to enjoy :) .

:up:
Hmm. interesting indeed. It would be nice to have both, but they'd probably not get round the first lap.

#8639 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 28 February 2011 - 12:54

I was going to post this sooner but had to wait for my account to be validated. Last week Damon Hill gave a (very enjoyable) speech at the Oxford Union, at the end of which he fielded a series of questions. Unfortunately I wasn't selected to ask my question as we ran out of time, so after the speech a friend and I went to the union bar for a quick drink before leaving. About ten minutes later Damon came into the bar with his wife and a couple of the union people for a quick drink, and just as he was leaving I went over to him and asked him "Damon, if you don't mind me interrupting you to ask a quick question - If hypothetically you were a team principal, and you were able to hire one of either Ayrton or Michael at their peaks, which would it be, and why?". He replied "hmm, very good question...", and after about ten seconds of silence replied "my heart says Ayrton...but my head says Michael". I thought this was a pretty great testament to Michael given how highly Hill thought of Senna (as he alluded to in his speech beforehand), and thought I'd share it here with other MSC fans to enjoy :) .


Welcome and Thank you for sharing; great intro of yourselve to this BB and the thread.

Advertisement

#8640 Fortymark

Fortymark
  • Member

  • 5,809 posts
  • Joined: April 03

Posted 28 February 2011 - 19:43

Spanish GP 1992

Schumacher closing in on mansell

http://www.youtube.c...o...der&list=UL


Don´t get carried away, start watching from about 5 min, http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
Mansell was just toying with Schumacher, once he put the hammer down he went from ~4 seconds to a 9 seconds gap
in less than 2 laps and then it was a 15 seconds gap after another 2 or 3 laps..

#8641 Fondmetal

Fondmetal
  • Member

  • 153 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 28 February 2011 - 19:51

Don´t get carried away, start watching from about 5 min, http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
Mansell was just toying with Schumacher, once he put the hammer down he went from ~4 seconds to a 9 seconds gap
in less than 2 laps and then it was a 15 seconds gap after another 2 or 3 laps..


If you watched the Nigel Mansell world champion xmas special, he praised schumancher. He was not playing with him, Mansell was pushing hard, but then he started to play with different lines and thats when he went faster. Schumacer was already catching him fast because he was finding huge time offline.

#8642 TheMortalBard

TheMortalBard
  • Member

  • 98 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 01 March 2011 - 04:17

Alonso seems to be saying a lot of nice things about MSC these days ! :)

http://supersport.co...ect_its_Michael

#8643 FigJam

FigJam
  • Member

  • 2,034 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 01 March 2011 - 04:28

They dont. Its a bash fest filled thread, yet again.

Ive seen schumacher from his early days, and it was evident the man was a great talent, making Brundle look very mediocre in that stick shifted Benetton.

He comes back after 3 years with all the testing restriction and was usually on pace with Rosberg, sometimes a few tenths slower. For an old man he looked better vs his teammate than Massa vs Alonso for instance. Compare it with come back of other champs; Mansell didnt even fit in the car and admitted defeat after only 5 races in 1995, Villeneuve was nowhere in the Renault, Mika was an embarrassment in testing times.


It's interesting how, given all the evidence since with various drivers, we see this still said about Villeneuve in 04.

We've seen drivers change teams and struggle for half a season, we've seen MS make a return and struggle for a full season. We've seen Raikkonen struggle to put Massa away over 3 seasons worth, we saw Barrichello struggle when he moved to Honda initially...

Villeneuve jumped into that Renault cold, with pretty much no testing, more than 3/4 through the season...and with Alonso in full flight as his benchmark. He managed to approach FA's laptimes by the 3rd race in Brazil, yet without much consistency.

Looking back...he was slaughtered to death by the press and fans alike. Which helped shape a perception of him that he couldn't shake thereafter, despite constantly getting the better of Massa and Heidfeld (yet without ever really being his old self...)

With what we've seen thereafter....across many drivers and teams.....was it ridiculous much? :well:

Edited by FigJam, 01 March 2011 - 04:30.


#8644 7timesbetterthantherest

7timesbetterthantherest
  • Member

  • 192 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 01 March 2011 - 14:41

http://www.crash.net..._contender.html

Bernie says Michael can be a title contender IF Merc has a good car

Edited by 7timesbetterthantherest, 01 March 2011 - 14:42.


#8645 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 10,070 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 01 March 2011 - 15:25

Villeneuve jumped into that Renault cold, with pretty much no testing, more than 3/4 through the season...and with Alonso in full flight as his benchmark. He managed to approach FA's laptimes by the 3rd race in Brazil, yet without much consistency.

Looking back...he was slaughtered to death by the press and fans alike. Which helped shape a perception of him that he couldn't shake thereafter, despite constantly getting the better of Massa and Heidfeld (yet without ever really being his old self...)

Without trying to be OT but for the sake of accuracy;
Points: NH 13, JV 7
Finished ahead: NH 7, JV 3
Best Finish: NH 4, JV 6
Hardly "constantly getting the better of"
However, Heidfeld did say that JV was as good as RK and the rest of '06 proved that.

But Heidfeld also had trouble with his Sauber comeback last year.
Yes, I know, old engines and all.
Lets see how his Renault comeback will work out.

Like every driver, Schumacher needs a good car to shine.
If this year is not that year for MGP, I doubt if next year will be.
If so, Michael will not stick around for year 3.

#8646 Tardis40

Tardis40
  • Member

  • 759 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 01 March 2011 - 15:41

Don't take this as a personal attack, but...

First, people were saying that Michael wasn't even going to make it to the starting grid. Next he wouldn't last the season. Then he wouldn't be back for season two.

Now you don't think he will be back for season three.

Michael strikes me as a man who honors his commitments. He's also an enormous media presence. He also happens to be a German driving for a German team. All very good reasons for him to see out the current contract. After that, who knows? Maybe a further year or two if he is still getting something out of driving.





#8647 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 10,070 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 01 March 2011 - 15:56

T40
I hear you and agree that he will not give up. Ever.
But IF this years car is a dog and next year as well, is he still having fun?
Would anyone blame him for leaving?
Would it help the sport if he stayed?
My understanding is that the agreement is "up to 3 years" meaning he can leave anytime before then.

#8648 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 01 March 2011 - 16:00

I can only see him quitting if he's consistently 0.5+ behind Rosberg, or the car is an uber donkey, reaching July without ever making Q2.

#8649 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 01 March 2011 - 17:25

Don't take this as a personal attack, but...

First, people were saying that Michael wasn't even going to make it to the starting grid. Next he wouldn't last the season. Then he wouldn't be back for season two.

Now you don't think he will be back for season three.

Michael strikes me as a man who honors his commitments. He's also an enormous media presence. He also happens to be a German driving for a German team. All very good reasons for him to see out the current contract. After that, who knows? Maybe a further year or two if he is still getting something out of driving.

I am with you on this point. Michael would be cheesed off, but failure in engineering he could take quite personally, because all his intelect he invested in his second year return. Failure on the track - hard to say. Predictions are, that it is going to be lottery because of tires related concerns.

Edited by Sakae, 01 March 2011 - 17:26.


#8650 7timesbetterthantherest

7timesbetterthantherest
  • Member

  • 192 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 01 March 2011 - 18:50

Schumacher will win in 2011 .... I'm sure he will be hunting for the title this year ... fingers crossed ..

He's going to prove he's STILL the best racer on the face of the planet .... just a little bit older

Go Schumi ! :up:

Edited by 7timesbetterthantherest, 01 March 2011 - 19:12.