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#8751 TheMortalBard

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:46

Presenting Sir Stirling Moss - 2011. I don't think I'll ever see the end of this. It's fascinating how former drivers perceive Michael. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course but somehow I think Moss expresses his in a disrespectful manner (marked in bold below). But again, that's just MY opinion ! ;)


Asked whether he felt Schumacher would do it this year, Moss pulled no punches again as he scoffed: "No he's not. Do you mean win? No, of course he's not.

"Michael is a great driver, a seven times world champion, which does not actually mean much.

"The point is we have never really seen Michael with a number two (a team-mate) to judge him by, that we can say is comparable.

"Therefore it is very difficult for us to know just how good he is, so personally I don't think he's going to win races.

"I think coming back was a mistake.He has done a tremendous amount for motor-racing, most of all bringing Ferrari back to the top when they were doing nothing.

"But I think it's going to be very difficult for him again. He's going to be lucky to even get on the podium."


Full article here

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#8752 ivand911

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:50

We know sir Moss well, so I am not surprised at all about his opinion. Nothing new.
I like the last part: "Schumacher, you have been warned." :rotfl:

Edited by ivand911, 16 March 2011 - 12:55.


#8753 steveninthematrix

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:58

We know sir Moss well, so I am not surprised at all about his opinion. Nothing new.
I like the last part: "Schumacher, you have been warned." :rotfl:


yip, Moss is british, Schumi is german, enough said;

-----

91 wins, 7 championships, and still the tallest tree catches all the wind and no respect; its ridiculous...

did anyone watch Hungary 98 or Spain 96 or Brazil 2006???

having watched Michael since his first race, anyone doubting just how good he is, is an idiot.

#8754 F1Nutter

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 13:01

Moss only thinks World Championships do not count for much because he never won one!


Edited by F1Nutter, 16 March 2011 - 13:46.


#8755 merschu

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 13:08

Stirling Moss! I don't know what to say about this guy! If don't like Schumi then don't talk about him! His statements about Schumi has now become like an old broken record! But it's one of the few ways he can now create headlines!

It's more like anyone who badmouths Schumi can grab the headlines.






Edited by merschu, 16 March 2011 - 13:57.


#8756 F1Nutter

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 13:26

I think F1Nutter meant that Stirling Moss never won a "Formula One Drivers World Championship"


Yes that is exactly what I meant.

He has always disliked Schumi. Unless you smoke a pipe and wear a smoking jacket when driving then Moss will never like you! :)

I think he should just stick to commenting on his own era, motor racing is completely different now.

#8757 Frans

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 15:05

Sir Moss is perfectly right in his right of having an opinion. Poor man can't defend himself on forums. I share his opinions 100%, Schumacher makes no chance even not in 2011.

He makes good strong points in his comments and opinion. I mean, the man Schumacher never had a 'real' teammate. He only had one, because all other teams have one. Really!

The may be a little exception on this, and that's Schumacher begin period at Benetton. But still it's questionably the time he(his manager?) came up with that plan to never had a fair teammate to make him look better and give him more chance on the title, and set it in work.

He is KNOWN to never have a fair team mate. They always have been 2nd-men, the one's who had to move over or use the brake on purpose in F1. What a shame.

Therefor Moss is right to say; "We don't really know how good he REALLY is." purely on the team mate relations in his past.

We can say, well, in 2010 this was NOT the case. Well, maybe that's true.
If one compares the 2010 season of Schumacher, one should compare the 1993 Benetton season with it. Michael and Patrese. Only compared with 1993, in the Benetton team back then one must see the 1993-Patrese as the 2010-Schumacher and the 1993-Schumacher would be the 2010-Rosberg. It's comparable ...

And so long Mercedes doesn't change the team into a One-man show policy in preference for Michael, and keep on going in the line of 2010; all fair, no team-orders and stuff. Then Michael indeed could have real problems again in 2011. And he may praise the Lord on his bare knees to get even a podium.

Moss :up::up:

#8758 Sakae

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 15:17

Presenting Sir Stirling Moss - 2011. I don't think I'll ever see the end of this. It's fascinating how former drivers perceive Michael. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course but somehow I think Moss expresses his in a disrespectful manner (marked in bold below). But again, that's just MY opinion ! ;)


Asked whether he felt Schumacher would do it this year, Moss pulled no punches again as he scoffed: "No he's not. Do you mean win? No, of course he's not.

"Michael is a great driver, a seven times world champion, which does not actually mean much.

"The point is we have never really seen Michael with a number two (a team-mate) to judge him by, that we can say is comparable.

"Therefore it is very difficult for us to know just how good he is, so personally I don't think he's going to win races.

"I think coming back was a mistake.He has done a tremendous amount for motor-racing, most of all bringing Ferrari back to the top when they were doing nothing.

"But I think it's going to be very difficult for him again. He's going to be lucky to even get on the podium."


Full article here

Always looking for a wedge to ram in, always looking under each stone to find something lacking...

I am not sure why we are really wasting time over his opinions; so what, it's negative, while there are others available - positive. I prefer to read those, as they coincide with mine. :wave:

#8759 Hacklerf

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 15:43

Moss, he needs to show some respect for Michael, same old story, never changes.

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#8760 Group B

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:00

Sadly Moss seems to get more bitter with every year. The guy was a top driver, but really needs to get over his MS issues; perhaps taking a leaf out of John Surtees' book;

"... it is all very well these people who have all the negatives about Michael, but the fact remains that he created that relationship with the team which then related to the way the cars performed on the track and he got the job done," Surtees said. "He did a wonderful job for Ferrari and I am not so sure he won't do the same thing for Mercedes."

#8761 KavB

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:21

I know everyone is allowed to have their own opinions. But whenever I read comments from Moss, I always sense a bit of nastiness. Maybe it's just because he's always negative towards Schumacher. He never had a top team mate, but he was always able to show his abilities against his title rivals which is just as important.

I'm not even a fan of the guy, but anyone who doesn't respect his talents is a fool, and that includes past F1 drivers and champions.

#8762 derstatic

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:23

Don't think it's really fair to say he never had a real teammate. Ferrari defiantely made some really stupid team order calls but Rubens is clearly not a bad driver. Massa ain't bad either and looked atleast as good as much hyped Raikkonen in the same car, atleast until his accident. What we can say for sure is that, apart from a few races in 1991 he never had a WDC teammate. If you want have that taint his legacy of course you could. On the other hand you could argue that Irvine, Massa and Barrichello were not poor drivers at all. They are all multiple GP winners and have finished P2 in the WDC standings and most of the time Schu beat them.

IMO the Jury is out on Rosberg. He clearly had the upper hand on Schu last year. If that was due to old age, long absense, bad car or just that Rosberg is much better than anyone anticipated remains to be seen. 2011 should provide some insight given that the Merc is a somewhat decent car.

#8763 Sakae

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 17:03

Michael on official F1 website: I am confident that we can compete for podium finishes, and I am hopeful we can fight for victories at some of the races...

Waiting for Melbourne to learn what the real picture is.

___________

I can add, all is as expected in Barcelona, but that's not how we started first day of testing, and in our hopes we came full circle - from depression to current level of anticipation that we have a fighting chance. I really want to see Michael next to Vettel, one one one on the grid, first row - my dream.

Edited by Sakae, 16 March 2011 - 17:04.


#8764 Tardis40

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 18:04

Always looking for a wedge to ram in, always looking under each stone to find something lacking...

I am not sure why we are really wasting time over his opinions; so what, it's negative, while there are others available - positive. I prefer to read those, as they coincide with mine. :wave:


That's okay, it will be all the more enjoyable when Michael's detractors have to swallow their words.



#8765 le chat noir

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 19:19

Thing about MS never having a teammate is, who could he have had - and who had one at that time anyway?

Hill had DC, surely a second man, and then JV, a rookie and also not so well regarded here (erroneously perhaps)
JV had Frentzen...
Hakkinen had DC, again...
Kimi had DC, then JPM
JPM had Ralf and Ralf JPM
Alonso had Trulli (and had him kicked out when he was being beaten) then Fisi.

Now most of MS's WDCs came with Rubens as a teammate. I'm not so sure Rubens was so poor in comparison to DC, JPM, Trulli or whoever.

MS was however head and shoulders above them all, plus - and this is part of the competition - he could eke out that advantage by forming the team around him, just as Alonso did and does, Lewis et al.

And yet of course, no one in the history of the sport, not even MS himself, has been good enough to last as long as his erstwhile teammate.


Even so, for what its worth, I've always thought he's come back in the hope Rubens leaves soon enough and he can win that last remaining record, for most GPs started.

#8766 BMW4life

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 20:51

It's not Schumacher's fault that his team mates couldn't hold a candle to him. Barrichello was pretty highly regarded when he moved to Ferrari and got DEMOLISHED! Yes he had preferential treatment, but that makes little difference. They drove the same cars.

As an aside, does anyone really think that Schumacher would come back to F1 at the ripe old age of 41 without ensuring he enjoyed the same perks he had at Ferrari? The difference is he had a torrid time adjusting compared with Rosberg. and he got DEMOLISHED! They drove the same cars... they even modified the cars to Schumacher's liking with no change to the status quo.

There were a few seasons when Michael wrapped up the championship early, and Barrichello had the entire team devoted to him. Did we see Barichello suddenly appear like world beater? Nope.

Sir Moss is a bit jealous, I think. I also think that Michael isn't terribly concerned about what his detractors think. He just puts his head down and goes to work... Mercedes isn't looking too bad this year. If he won another two championships I'd love to hear what his detractors would say then. He's pure class. :smoking:

Signed,

Former Schumi detractor who's seen the light.



#8767 Scotracer

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 23:10

I'm starting to get a bit giddy for the season...I've not anticipated one for long, long time (since 2006, actually). :D

#8768 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 00:17

Poor Stirling Moss should stick to walking whilst looking fowards and not falling down elevator shafts.

I think the knock on the head must have triggered a repetitive anti-Schumacher sentiment within the old fart.

All of Murray Walker's brown nosing has made him think he is greater than he actually was.

I think it is time to adjust the medication.......

#8769 Longtimefan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 00:30

Moss never liked Schumi and enjoys running him down whenever possible which is sad as I liked and respected Moss until his attitude put me off him. He should go back to ****ing over fangio pictures.



#8770 FigJam

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 00:40

Thing about MS never having a teammate is, who could he have had - and who had one at that time anyway?

Hill had DC, surely a second man, and then JV, a rookie and also not so well regarded here (erroneously perhaps)JV had Frentzen...
Hakkinen had DC, again...
Kimi had DC, then JPM
JPM had Ralf and RalfJPM
Alonso had Trulli (and had him kicked out when he was being beaten) then Fisi.


I emphasised the bolded part because that just shows the ridiculous nature of this forum. JV is not regarded by anyone because of his arrogance with the BAR project, it put alot of peoples noses out of joint (in and out of the pitlane/paddock) and while JV should share the blame for that, his lowly rating on this forum is beyond comprehension.

The point is (and this is leading to the MS teammates discussion) people have very, very short memories. From the time JV joined the F1 circus till Hakkinen retired/JV started to go backwards (end of 2001)...it was a commen perception that, while Schumacher was still the standout, Hakkinen and Villeneuve were the next two stars that could cut it with him. The 2 main drivers that had the pure speed, tenacity and bravado to put MS in his place. I remember this general perception especially during 1998-2000, while Hakkinen was fighting MS for another title and Villeneuve was working miracles with a very average BAR team and was being courted by other teams.

Now while Hakkinen still gets genuine credit for his feats, Villeneuve is often very overlooked. Maybe its the personalities of the two men and how they both went down with fans? Dunno....but MS must have been rapt when JV took himself out of the WDC equation from 1999. No doubt about it. Out of 2 genuine rivals...he only then had one to worry about.

All that said, regarding Schumacher, I believe had he partnered either Hakkinen or Villeneuve in their primes at Ferrari (or elsewhere) and beat them fairly and squarly...his reputation would be far more complete. They were the 2 standouts at that time, both had beaten MS to titles already, no one else came close. Coulthard, Barrichello etc were all a rung below.

Imagine how much harder MS's life might have been having to fight both MH and JV at once? We...as fans...truly missed out.

#8771 r4mses

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 00:59

Maybe Moss is just jealous since MSC got 7 WDC titles whereas he has just four runner up finishes under his belt and just noticed it's to late for him to come back? :p

#8772 scheivlak

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 01:39

I emphasised the bolded part because that just shows the ridiculous nature of this forum. JV is not regarded by anyone because of his arrogance with the BAR project, it put alot of peoples noses out of joint (in and out of the pitlane/paddock) and while JV should share the blame for that, his lowly rating on this forum is beyond comprehension.

The point is (and this is leading to the MS teammates discussion) people have very, very short memories. From the time JV joined the F1 circus till Hakkinen retired/JV started to go backwards (end of 2001)...it was a commen perception that, while Schumacher was still the standout, Hakkinen and Villeneuve were the next two stars that could cut it with him. The 2 main drivers that had the pure speed, tenacity and bravado to put MS in his place. I remember this general perception especially during 1998-2000, while Hakkinen was fighting MS for another title and Villeneuve was working miracles with a very average BAR team and was being courted by other teams.

Now while Hakkinen still gets genuine credit for his feats, Villeneuve is often very overlooked. Maybe its the personalities of the two men and how they both went down with fans? Dunno....but MS must have been rapt when JV took himself out of the WDC equation from 1999. No doubt about it. Out of 2 genuine rivals...he only then had one to worry about.

All that said, regarding Schumacher, I believe had he partnered either Hakkinen or Villeneuve in their primes at Ferrari (or elsewhere) and beat them fairly and squarly...his reputation would be far more complete. They were the 2 standouts at that time, both had beaten MS to titles already, no one else came close. Coulthard, Barrichello etc were all a rung below.


"it was a commen perception that, while Schumacher was still the standout, Hakkinen and Villeneuve were the next two stars that could cut it with him."

Really? Let's see how common:

http://atlasf1.autos...ov10/top10.html
http://atlasf1.autos...ov01/top10.html
http://atlasf1.autos...ct24/top10.html

In a panel full of pundits Jacques only got a few points from rather biased non-journalists in 1999 and 2001 and barely came 3rd in 2000, one point ahead of a rookie named Jenson Button and way, way behind Michael and Mika.

#8773 TheMortalBard

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 02:38

It's not Schumacher's fault that his team mates couldn't hold a candle to him. Barrichello was pretty highly regarded when he moved to Ferrari and got DEMOLISHED! Yes he had preferential treatment, but that makes little difference. They drove the same cars.

As an aside, does anyone really think that Schumacher would come back to F1 at the ripe old age of 41 without ensuring he enjoyed the same perks he had at Ferrari? The difference is he had a torrid time adjusting compared with Rosberg. and he got DEMOLISHED! They drove the same cars... they even modified the cars to Schumacher's liking with no change to the status quo.

There were a few seasons when Michael wrapped up the championship early, and Barrichello had the entire team devoted to him. Did we see Barichello suddenly appear like world beater? Nope.

Sir Moss is a bit jealous, I think. I also think that Michael isn't terribly concerned about what his detractors think. He just puts his head down and goes to work... Mercedes isn't looking too bad this year. If he won another two championships I'd love to hear what his detractors would say then. He's pure class. :smoking:

Signed,

Former Schumi detractor who's seen the light.


Nice post. A little comment about the part marked in bold. They didn't modify the car to suit MSC. They just wanted to find a way to manage the weight distribution better and correct the horrendous understeer it had. This affected both drivers. So they tried a car with a longer wheelbase. Didn't make any difference to Michael coz' Rosberg still beat him. But the changes they made didn't allow Nico to start competing for wins either. In short the W01 sucked and had a very narrow setup range. The car was only partially responsible for his MSC's bad year. More to do with his 3 years off and his racing brain not waking up yet. MSC has no preference for a car with a longer or shorter wheelbase. He just wants a fast nervous car.

Edited by TheMortalBard, 17 March 2011 - 02:46.


#8774 FigJam

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:04

"it was a commen perception that, while Schumacher was still the standout, Hakkinen and Villeneuve were the next two stars that could cut it with him."

Really? Let's see how common:

http://atlasf1.autos...ov10/top10.html
http://atlasf1.autos...ov01/top10.html
http://atlasf1.autos...ct24/top10.html

In a panel full of pundits Jacques only got a few points from rather biased non-journalists in 1999 and 2001 and barely came 3rd in 2000, one point ahead of a rookie named Jenson Button and way, way behind Michael and Mika.


Well I've got magazines stacked sky high at my place (collecting dust :p ) from F1 Racing, to Autosport...to Autocourse annuals etc where Jacques Villeneuve, from 1998 - 2001, was genuinely ranked/discussed/placed amongst the 3 best drivers in F1. From Nigel Roebuck...to Alan Henry... to Gerhard Berger...to even the likes of Matt Bishop (who generally thought JV was an arse for whatever reason...) lauding JV's performances particularly from 98-2000.

Maybe its been an Atlas thing with JV then? That would make sense.

Edited by FigJam, 17 March 2011 - 03:05.


#8775 baddog

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:13

And yet Jacques was hired by Williams to partner Hill as a total rookie, and was later partnered himself with very clear number 2s. DC was hired by Williams as a number 2 and by Mac as a number 2.

The fantasy that everyone else had a senna/prost partnership and Michael had a crippled spaniel as a partner is a laughable load of tripe. I wish I could be surprised to see moss spreading it.

#8776 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:36

He is KNOWN to never have a fair team mate. They always have been 2nd-men, the one's who had to move over or use the brake on purpose in F1. What a shame.

Therefor Moss is right to say; "We don't really know how good he REALLY is." purely on the team mate relations in his past.

That's a good point.

Why didn't Flav chase Senna to drive the other Benetton in 94 season?

Why didn't Ferrari stick a pile of $$ in front of Hakkinen to replace Irvine?

As it turns out there were no top drivers available in early 00's (Trulli, Ralfie, Frentzen, Jacques, Panis, da Matta, de la Rosa, Salo etc surely not) aside from Raikkonen* and Alonso whom Ferrari did each sign when they were able to.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 17 March 2011 - 05:36.


#8777 AndreasF1

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 06:05

Moss shoukd keep quiet. In retrospect he carries that unfulfiled F1 career on hi shoulders: always been a #2 to Fangio he coukd never shine against the Majestro when it came to racing those silver cars. His self esteem must have suffered alot never having beaten Fangio to a WDC. So in a way he is behaving like Barrichelo. By Mosses word, We don't know how good Fangio really was because he mostly raced against Moss who never amounted to much in F1... See the irony here?
His outstanding sportscar career only reinforces that frustration that he was never an alltime great In F1.

#8778 dde

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 10:20

I know everyone is allowed to have their own opinions. But whenever I read comments from Moss, I always sense a bit of nastiness. Maybe it's just because he's always negative towards Schumacher. He never had a top team mate, but he was always able to show his abilities against his title rivals which is just as important.

I'm not even a fan of the guy, but anyone who doesn't respect his talents is a fool, and that includes past F1 drivers and champions.


Moss WAS a fan of Schumacher a long time ago. In fact, he was at Monaco in 1997 and could'nt find the words to explain how a genius Schumacher was.

At the time Schumacher was a double-champion, a no one (except a few people of course, but no one said "raisonnable") could think he would smah all F1 records. Then came the 3rd, the 4th, the 5th titles and the rest, the 40th, the 50th the 51th victories and the rest.

Have you ever heard Moss speak about Fangio ? How could one imagine Moss would take it easy when a driver would surpass his beloved hero ?

#8779 Hacklerf

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 10:33

Thats true, but Moss is so anti Shumi that its boring, same old stuff all the time, he needs to change the record

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#8780 F1 Tor.

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 12:01

I'm sure Michael loses a lot of sleep over what his critics say ;) Let's hope he has a competitive year. Having him in a fast car dicing it up with the young guns, his teammate included, can only be good for F1. We'll find out soon enough if Mercedes/MS have upped their game.

Edited by F1 Tor., 17 March 2011 - 12:02.


#8781 KiloWatt

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 12:16

How old is Moss now? I bet Michael sounds way too much like Messerschmidt for his liking and when Michael opens his mouth he instinctively reaches for his red phone to ring fighter command.

Edit, he drove for merc though....Nope, that's my ideas spent.

Edited by KiloWatt, 17 March 2011 - 12:18.


#8782 BMW4life

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 13:23

Nice post. A little comment about the part marked in bold. They didn't modify the car to suit MSC. They just wanted to find a way to manage the weight distribution better and correct the horrendous understeer it had. This affected both drivers. So they tried a car with a longer wheelbase. Didn't make any difference to Michael coz' Rosberg still beat him. But the changes they made didn't allow Nico to start competing for wins either. In short the W01 sucked and had a very narrow setup range. The car was only partially responsible for his MSC's bad year. More to do with his 3 years off and his racing brain not waking up yet. MSC has no preference for a car with a longer or shorter wheelbase. He just wants a fast nervous car.


Well, I figured that would make it a bit more paletable for those who think MS was nothing more than a lucky also-ran. :rotfl:

I don't try to pretend to know what effect wheelbases have on the performance characteristics of these cars, especially when we're talking about a couple cm difference. It's clear that he's no longer at his prime, and had a pretty rough time getting to grips with it all. But I still maintain that he looked at FA get beat by a rookie, KR getting beat by Massa, JB win a championship while struggling to outperform Rubens Barrichello in the second half of that season, and figured... "even at 41, I must still be at least as good as some of these guys."

#8783 TheMortalBard

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 16:17

Well, I figured that would make it a bit more paletable for those who think MS was nothing more than a lucky also-ran. :rotfl:

I don't try to pretend to know what effect wheelbases have on the performance characteristics of these cars, especially when we're talking about a couple cm difference. It's clear that he's no longer at his prime, and had a pretty rough time getting to grips with it all. But I still maintain that he looked at FA get beat by a rookie, KR getting beat by Massa, JB win a championship while struggling to outperform Rubens Barrichello in the second half of that season, and figured... "even at 41, I must still be at least as good as some of these guys."


Ha Ha ... The part in Bold .... I have a bunch of buds who've mentioned the same thing !

But seriously ... there will always be haters and who think MSC was just 'lucky'. Stirling Moss for example ;) But the haters have the right to hate. I just leave it at that !

But in this phase of his career, I am just glad to see him compete. His drive and competitive nature is something most of the drivers on the grid look up to. I think he'll do much better this year and Nico is no slouch either. It's gonna be great !

#8784 RSNS

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 23:12

I am not Schumacher's fan, but the level of hatred here really makes me hope Schumacher will win a race in style this year.
About Moss: I think he can't stand Schumacher because he really thinks Schumacher is better than Senna and Fangio, and that makes Moss a third tier driver, because Moss always acknowledged Fangio to be his better. For a F1 driver to acknowledge that kind of thing is very hard, but he was happy enough to be second to an absolute genius. Now if Fangio is no longer a freak of nature, that makes Moss very ordinary and definitely one of the rest. Which of course he cannot bear; hence the Schumacher obsession.

#8785 Jan.W

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 23:14

I am not Schumacher's fan, but the level of hatred here really makes me hope Schumacher will win a race in style this year.
About Moss: I think he can't stand Schumacher because he really thinks Schumacher is better than Senna and Fangio, and that makes Moss a third tier driver, because Moss always acknowledged Fangio to be his better. For a F1 driver to acknowledge that kind of thing is very hard, but he was happy enough to be second to an absolute genius. Now if Fangio is no longer a freak of nature, that makes Moss very ordinary and definitely one of the rest. Which of course he cannot bear; hence the Schumacher obsession.


Amen to that. :up:


#8786 SeanValen

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 01:07

I am not Schumacher's fan, but the level of hatred here really makes me hope Schumacher will win a race in style this year.
About Moss: I think he can't stand Schumacher because he really thinks Schumacher is better than Senna and Fangio, and that makes Moss a third tier driver, because Moss always acknowledged Fangio to be his better. For a F1 driver to acknowledge that kind of thing is very hard, but he was happy enough to be second to an absolute genius. Now if Fangio is no longer a freak of nature, that makes Moss very ordinary and definitely one of the rest. Which of course he cannot bear; hence the Schumacher obsession.



That's telling, because I remember Moss was actually quite a fan of Schumacher before 2002, after 2002, when Michael got equal to fangio, he wasn't singing priase.

U remember albert park 2001, ITV interview, Moss was clearly a fan and stated Michael was making the difference in modern day f1 where the differences are mere tenths. I'm sure Moss was a fan, but he decided to renounce publically his true opinons of what he prevously thought.


I was going through my old F1 magazines and found this quote from Michael,
Total Sport, September 1996:


"Q: When will you retire?"
MS: To be honest, sooner rather than later... There's a problem with old drivers. If you go right up to the age limit then you start to think about it, the driving, and then you become too slow.
So I guess I could go on for another five or six years... as long as I'm enjoying it."



I suppose he still enjoys it. And his speed seems to be ok as well.
But it's interesting hearing him talking about quitting in the early 00 or thereabouts.
While he is still going strong in 2011 and thinking about driving beyond 2012...



When you talk about getting old when your not old, it's different when you get older and discover you still have something driving you. In 2006 in the Monaco after driver briefings before Silverstone, Nico Rosberg said "I can't see him retiring, Michael just has so much drive,." at the time when Rosberg said that, it actually made me think he would be back. And he did come back, like a reformed drinker who couldn't stay away from his drug, speed and tyres underneath him to feel alive, and he actually said that in 2009 testing, "I felt alive again." When someone says that despite having loads of money and time to relax, you know they belong somewhere else.

Schumacher surprised himself in terms of how long he was in f1, you don't stay in f1 that long unless you really are dedicated to something, but he did need that break after 2006 to just live like a retired man enjoying his success, he seemed like he was giving it a shot, but after a while, you stop relaxing, and wanna stretch, is he the stay at home guy who has pizza and watch a film, or the guy who wants a challenge? Until he really does get old to a point where he finds t's a struggle, he's gonna maximise his f1 life, because he already knows what it feels like to be retired and looking back, when you lost something and get it back, you do approach it with freshness, so I'm not surprised if he goes on. He's got a challenge that he didn't have at the end of his ferrari era and he's fresh from a big break, and the critics have this situation of a living legend carving out a possible additional chapter, it's gotta be perhaps one of his greatest challenges.




Edited by SeanValen, 18 March 2011 - 01:29.


#8787 Levike

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 05:41

I used to hate him but now i like his way of living and admire his balls to come back. I really hope that he will kick some young gun's ass this year.

#8788 Speed_Racer

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 07:43

I'm wonder what the Italian media is saying about MS ...

#8789 Claudius

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 10:10

When you talk about getting old when your not old, it's different when you get older and discover you still have something driving you. In 2006 in the Monaco after driver briefings before Silverstone, Nico Rosberg said "I can't see him retiring, Michael just has so much drive,." at the time when Rosberg said that, it actually made me think he would be back. And he did come back, like a reformed drinker who couldn't stay away from his drug, speed and tyres underneath him to feel alive, and he actually said that in 2009 testing, "I felt alive again." When someone says that despite having loads of money and time to relax, you know they belong somewhere else.

Schumacher surprised himself in terms of how long he was in f1, you don't stay in f1 that long unless you really are dedicated to something, but he did need that break after 2006 to just live like a retired man enjoying his success, he seemed like he was giving it a shot, but after a while, you stop relaxing, and wanna stretch, is he the stay at home guy who has pizza and watch a film, or the guy who wants a challenge? Until he really does get old to a point where he finds t's a struggle, he's gonna maximise his f1 life, because he already knows what it feels like to be retired and looking back, when you lost something and get it back, you do approach it with freshness, so I'm not surprised if he goes on. He's got a challenge that he didn't have at the end of his ferrari era and he's fresh from a big break, and the critics have this situation of a living legend carving out a possible additional chapter, it's gotta be perhaps one of his greatest challenges.



Good post Sean. :up:
I just found it a bit funny to read that quote, and compare it to the situation today.
But it seems he still has the fire to win, that makes all the difference.



#8790 Group B

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 10:44

That's telling, because I remember Moss was actually quite a fan of Schumacher before 2002, after 2002, when Michael got equal to fangio, he wasn't singing priase.

U remember albert park 2001, ITV interview, Moss was clearly a fan and stated Michael was making the difference in modern day f1 where the differences are mere tenths. I'm sure Moss was a fan, but he decided to renounce publically his true opinons of what he prevously thought.

Yep, I remember that too; Moss was always heaping praise on MS in th 1990s then began finding reasons him discredit him. I don't know whether RSNS is right, but Moss' volte-face is certainly curious.

#8791 Frans

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 12:07

Moss made a good choice in rejecting the Dark Force Spell....

He clearly 'woke up' of the Schumacher deception of the late 90's / early 2000's.

Give the man some credit.

#8792 Buttoneer

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 17:46

Post have been deleted.

Please do not discuss other posters, and cut out the xenophobia. Please also stick to the topic, which is 'Michael Schumacher' and not 'Sir Stirling Moss'. His opinions are what matter here, and not the man.

#8793 Tarzaan

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 08:49

Will Schumi have 92 race wins after the next 168 hours? :)

#8794 arknor

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 12:51

Will Schumi have 92 race wins after the next 168 hours? :)

probably not :lol:

would have been nice to see him hit 100 race wins but i dont think hes got much chance in the next 2 seasons. im expecting a much more competitive michael but i dont think the car is quite good enough to beat the the RB 's and ferrari

#8795 Tardis40

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 13:15

He's already been talking about possibly extending the MGP deal.

Anything can happen. If the package is good enough to stay in touch with the front then the possibility exists. How do we know that Webber isn't going to take out Vettel again, or someone blows an engine, or a fortuitous safety car period occurs. With the new tires the opening races could be a lottery and the first team that hits on the ideal tire strategy will have the early advantage.

I hope the W02 is at least good enough for him to be able to defend against the top cars, and to get past the slower cars effectively. That and a little good luck.


#8796 Augurk

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 13:23

He looked rather promising last year at Melbourne. Would've possibly racked up a podium without that first corner incident. And that was in a car he had a lot of trouble in throughout the year. In this car he might prove to be an outsider :)

#8797 111griff111

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 14:14

This year is going to be alot about strategy. I would want Ross calling my strategy. That is how Micheal is going to win a few races this year.Take that to the bank!

#8798 Johnrambo

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 14:39

He's already been talking about possibly extending the MGP deal.


Some good stuff MS is enjoying today. :smoking: I bet he won't get his wish unless he has pictures of Merc bosses in various embarrassing situations. :lol:

#8799 ivand911

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 17:15

Some good stuff MS is enjoying today. :smoking: I bet he won't get his wish unless he has pictures of Merc bosses in various embarrassing situations. :lol:

This is old news. And you are not well informed. Haug first started this talks.
http://www.gpupdate....ign-schumacher/




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#8800 tifosiMac

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 19:18

About Moss: I think he can't stand Schumacher because he really thinks Schumacher is better than Senna and Fangio, and that makes Moss a third tier driver, because Moss always acknowledged Fangio to be his better. For a F1 driver to acknowledge that kind of thing is very hard, but he was happy enough to be second to an absolute genius. Now if Fangio is no longer a freak of nature, that makes Moss very ordinary and definitely one of the rest. Which of course he cannot bear; hence the Schumacher obsession.

I think its important to bear in mind here that Moss is allowed his opinion whether we agree with him or not. It shouldn't be a case of "he thinks Schumacher is a dirty driver so lets attack Moss's status in the history of F1", because anyone with any credibility should know the difference between the retrospective era's. Moss isn't the only person in the sport who didn't appreciate Schumacher's ocassional actions that went beyond the spirit of the rules, but I'm sure he respects what he has achieved at the same time.