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#8851 ivand911

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 15:28

I predict this will be Michael Schumacher's last year in F1.

I doubt that. They even talk about 2013.


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#8852 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 15:53

they were people predicting his "neck" problems to re-appear until mid 2010 and nothing happened

#8853 BRK

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 16:44

Oh I don't know, I thought he drove a pretty decent race at Imola in 2005.


Would that be when he lapped nearly the entire field in a lesser car or bagged a podium place driving around stuck in a gear for most of the race? Or was it when he did a good job of defending in a vastly superior car that happened to run into unexpected tyre issues?

MS turned the tables a year later with a better car, despite the obvious fact that the RS26 was still better than the 248.....only Alonso couldn't repeat Schumacher's performance from the year before when he choked and ran wide.

Alonso did have a chance at the Malaysian GP last year. I mean he only had a slower McLaren to contend with on track, not a superior Williams. Wasn't surprised to see it all go up in smoke...

I am a big-time schumi fan but even I have to admit Alonso's drive in Hungary 2006 was one of the best drives in F1 History until he had the tyre nut problem. But schumi's drive in China was like the ULTIMATE!!!!! I was watched the race again and again - Just too Good to be true. Almost reminds me the story of the hare and the tortoise .. lol :)


MS churned out these performances consistently and in inferior cars. That's the difference between a good driver and a legend.

#8854 Tardis40

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 16:57

I'm obviously a Michael fan, but let's give credit where it's due. Alonso was a formidable opponent in both his title winning years, and he kept his head on his shoulders and did only what was necessary to bring it home when it mattered. 2006 was a great season for both of them. The ebb and flow, first one having the advantage, then the other clawing it back. And it was all epitomized in China as the Renaults pulled out a big initial lead on a wet track and then Michael reeled them both in as the surface dried. Only Fernando could have held Michael off that year.

#8855 Patrick Mark

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 17:04

Hmmmm. Possibly the greatest driver of all time, makes a pretty impressive comeback and talk is of "could do better" nature!!! Without idolising the 7 times WDC I think any weaknesses perceived by armchair critics are "incredible"/


Forgive shameless promotion here but for a bit of interesting Schumacher backstory I hope you might be interested in Mark Stewart Productions' film, 'F1 60th Anniversary: Plus Ca Change' which will be shown on BBC4 at 8:00pm on Sunday 27 March. In the film, Michael himself very nearly admits to a weakness when speaking of the Jerez 1997 incident.


#8856 BRK

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 17:05

The question was whether Hamilton and Alonso could be as good as Schumacher was in a dominant car, not the 2006 season. Based on everything that we've seen so far there's really no comparison betweenSchumacher and FA, MS has simply done a far better job than Alonso at every stage in his career. As for Hamilton, still too early to tell how good he is,but MS was more impressive in his early campaigns than Hamilton has been.

Edited by BRK, 22 March 2011 - 17:06.


#8857 Group B

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 17:12

I'm obviously a Michael fan, but let's give credit where it's due. Alonso was a formidable opponent in both his title winning years, and he kept his head on his shoulders and did only what was necessary to bring it home when it mattered. 2006 was a great season for both of them. The ebb and flow, first one having the advantage, then the other clawing it back. And it was all epitomized in China as the Renaults pulled out a big initial lead on a wet track and then Michael reeled them both in as the surface dried. Only Fernando could have held Michael off that year.

:up:
Fred was great during those battles; I had similarly high respect for Mika 1998-2001 too. I never understand why some people seem to think that being a fan of driver 'A' means you need to slag the hell out of his opponents. :confused: :well:

#8858 Group B

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 17:13

Hmmmm. Possibly the greatest driver of all time, makes a pretty impressive comeback and talk is of "could do better" nature!!! Without idolising the 7 times WDC I think any weaknesses perceived by armchair critics are "incredible"/


Forgive shameless promotion here but for a bit of interesting Schumacher backstory I hope you might be interested in Mark Stewart Productions' film, 'F1 60th Anniversary: Plus Ca Change' which will be shown on BBC4 at 8:00pm on Sunday 27 March. In the film, Michael himself very nearly admits to a weakness when speaking of the Jerez 1997 incident.

Thanks for the heads-up. :up:

#8859 BRK

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 17:44

:up:
Fred was great during those battles; I had similarly high respect for Mika 1998-2001 too. I never understand why some people seem to think that being a fan of driver 'A' means you need to slag the hell out of his opponents. :confused: :well:


That's a gross generalization. At least in my case I have never and will never criticize his 'opponents' like Hakkinen (in fact I was a bit of a fan, myself), Hill or Raikkonen,or even JV and Juan Pablo. Simply because there wasn't anything to be critical of, they all got the praise they deserved from fans and the media, weren't overrated or overhyped (with the exception of JV early on), and were criticized for their failings in equal measure. More importantly, I think all of them knew where to draw the line between sport and life outside of the race track....

Can't say any of this is true in the case of Alonso. Nonetheless, I rank him as being the 4th best driver on the grid today,but all I'm saying is that Vettel and LH are a step ahead already: while MS was and is in a different league,with the Sennas and Prosts of the racing world. I don't see how this is 'slagging the hell out of' him. Then again I'm sure you know what I mean when you get called all sorts of stuff for being critical of Hamilton.. ;)

Bottomline: I'm not here to make friends or rack up goodwill among rival fanbases so I wouldn't be lonely when winter beckons. (I've heard this actually happens a lot on internet fora until things get really ugly and real opinions spill out the bag!) I don't have a problem with saying it like it is,that's what I'm here for. :)

/OT

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#8860 Sakae

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 17:44

Forgive shameless promotion here but for a bit of interesting Schumacher backstory I hope you might be interested in Mark Stewart Productions' film, 'F1 60th Anniversary: Plus Ca Change' which will be shown on BBC4 at 8:00pm on Sunday 27 March. In the film, Michael himself very nearly admits to a weakness when speaking of the Jerez 1997 incident.

Not having opportunity to see film for myself, can you elaborate on the last part, please?

#8861 thechin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 17:51

That's a gross generalization. At least in my case I have never and will never criticize his 'opponents' like Hakkinen (in fact I was a bit of a fan, myself), Hill or Raikkonen,or even JV and Juan Pablo. Simply because there wasn't anything to be critical of, they all got the praise they deserved from fans and the media, weren't overrated or overhyped (with the exception of JV early on), and were criticized for their failings in equal measure. More importantly, I think all of them knew where to draw the line between sport and life outside of the race track....

Can't say any of this is true in the case of Alonso. Nonetheless, I rank him as being the 4th best driver on the grid today,but all I'm saying is that Vettel and LH are a step ahead already: while MS was and is in a different league,with the Sennas and Prosts of the racing world. I don't see how this is 'slagging the hell out of' him. Then again I'm sure you know what I mean when you get called all sorts of stuff for being critical of Hamilton..;)

Bottomline: I'm not here to make friends or rack up goodwill among rival fanbases so I wouldn't be lonely when winter beckons. (I've heard this actually happens a lot on internet fora until things get really ugly and real opinions spill out the bag!) I don't have a problem with saying it like it is,that's what I'm here for. :)

/OT


I think what you're trying to say is 'I won't criticize opponents who Schumacher could ultimately beat with a car or tyre advantage but i will criticize one who made him stoop to new lows (Monaco q) and retired him.'

#8862 Group B

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:08

That's a gross generalization. At least in my case I have never and will never criticize his 'opponents' like Hakkinen (in fact I was a bit of a fan, myself), Hill or Raikkonen,or even JV and Juan Pablo. Simply because there wasn't anything to be critical of, they all got the praise they deserved from fans and the media, weren't overrated or overhyped (with the exception of JV early on), and were criticized for their failings in equal measure. More importantly, I think all of them knew where to draw the line between sport and life outside of the race track....

Can't say any of this is true in the case of Alonso. Nonetheless, I rank him as being the 4th best driver on the grid today,but all I'm saying is that Vettel and LH are a step ahead already: while MS was and is in a different league,with the Sennas and Prosts of the racing world. I don't see how this is 'slagging the hell out of' him. Then again I'm sure you know what I mean when you get called all sorts of stuff for being critical of Hamilton..;)

Bottomline: I'm not here to make friends or rack up goodwill among rival fanbases so I wouldn't be lonely when winter beckons. (I've heard this actually happens a lot on internet fora until things get really ugly and real opinions spill out the bag!) I don't have a problem with saying it like it is,that's what I'm here for. :)

/OT

I wasn't particularly referring to you, but rather the all too common situation on here of people preferring to slate rather than praise. Always strikes me as odd from a gathering of people who supposedly love the sport. :well:

Anyway, back on topic ...

#8863 Group B

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:13

I think what you're trying to say is 'I won't criticize opponents who Schumacher could ultimately beat with a car or tyre advantage but i will criticize one who made him stoop to new lows (Monaco q) and retired him.'

:rolleyes:
Oh, joy, we have a new troll.

#8864 Augurk

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:25

I wasn't particularly referring to you, but rather the all too common situation on here of people preferring to slate rather than praise. Always strikes me as odd from a gathering of people who supposedly love the sport. :well:

Anyway, back on topic ...

I agree it's often slating the drivers they're not a fan of. However in this particular case I don't think it's slating.

It's a hell of a big leap to say Alonso or Hamilton would've been as dominant as Schumacher had they been at Ferrari. Neither has shown anything that provides a base for that claim, or even to suggest that Ferrari would have been as dominant as they were had they been there in stead of Schumacher. On the contrary, recent history has shown us several incredible cars but only one driver ever to extract that kind of season-long domination from it. I say a Williams in '96, '97, McLaren in '98, Renault in '05, McLaren in '07, Brawn in '09, Red Bull in '10

Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Alonso, Hamilton/Alonso, Button, Vettel should've walked away with them easily yet they have all seen to keep it exciting until the last race. Of all of those only Button has really shown the kind of dominance during the period Brawn was still way ahead of the pack. Yet he is widely regarded as the least talented of the recent lot (Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel).

Edited by Augurk, 22 March 2011 - 18:26.


#8865 BRK

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:25

I wasn't particularly referring to you, but rather the all too common situation on here of people preferring to slate rather than praise. Always strikes me as odd from a gathering of people who supposedly love the sport. :well:

Anyway, back on topic ...


All right. It is a forum,though,there's always going to be unpopular opinions and a bit of bashing everywhere - just a matter of knowing which threads to avoid and which to frequent,I guess. It's precisely because you love the sport that the flaws irk you and are annoying. When has anyone ever complained about a great overtaking move, no matter the driver? :)

Edited by BRK, 22 March 2011 - 18:26.


#8866 thechin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:26

:rolleyes:
Oh, joy, we have a new troll.

I'm not trying to troll. I just find it interesting that all Schumacher's opponents who he overcame in the end are given respect, while the one who he couldn't defeat gets none. Seems like it should be the other way round if anything. I guess the others knew their place.

I'm not a Schumacher fan but with the Merc looking good I do think he may get some revenge on Alonso this year.

#8867 Group B

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:34

I'm not trying to troll. I just find it interesting that all Schumacher's opponents who he overcame in the end are given respect, while the one who he couldn't defeat gets none. Seems like it should be the other way round if anything. I guess the others knew their place.

I'm not a Schumacher fan but with the Merc looking good I do think he may get some revenge on Alonso this year.

I agree with you on respecting Fred, personally I think he's the best driver on the grid right now even thought I'm a Vettel fan. However, you're stretching it a very long way by suggesting that MS only overcame his other opponents with the aid of a car or tyre advantage.

#8868 BRK

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:38

I'm not trying to troll. I just find it interesting that all Schumacher's opponents who he overcame in the end are given respect, while the one who he couldn't defeat gets none. Seems like it should be the other way round if anything. I guess the others knew their place.

I'm not a Schumacher fan but with the Merc looking good I do think he may get some revenge on Alonso this year.


'Couldn't defeat' because he retired? Hakkinen also had a better car that he beat MS to the title two years in a row with; that's exactly what Alonso achieved,why would you think he's any different in my book or is somehow deserving of more attention because of this? :confused:

Already given my reasons in the post you quoted.




#8869 BRK

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:40

It's a hell of a big leap to say Alonso or Hamilton would've been as dominant as Schumacher had they been at Ferrari. Neither has shown anything that provides a base for that claim, or even to suggest that Ferrari would have been as dominant as they were had they been there in stead of Schumacher. On the contrary, recent history has shown us several incredible cars but only one driver ever to extract that kind of season-long domination from it. I say a Williams in '96, '97, McLaren in '98, Renault in '05, McLaren in '07, Brawn in '09, Red Bull in '10

Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Alonso, Hamilton/Alonso, Button, Vettel should've walked away with them easily yet they have all seen to keep it exciting until the last race. Of all of those only Button has really shown the kind of dominance during the period Brawn was still way ahead of the pack. Yet he is widely regarded as the least talented of the recent lot (Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel).


Agree with this.

#8870 thechin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:48

I agree with you on respecting Fred, personally I think he's the best driver on the grid right now even thought I'm a Vettel fan. However, you're stretching it a very long way by suggesting that MS only overcame his other opponents with the aid of a car or tyre advantage.

The Schumacher domination period was absolutely achieved with a car and tyre advantage. I believe Michael is/was an incredible driver, it's just his stats and achievements are skewed by the advantage he held for these years.

#8871 Tarzaan

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:50

Simply, Schumacher, is the best


Nothing new.
:smoking:



#8872 thechin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:51

'Couldn't defeat' because he retired? Hakkinen also had a better car that he beat MS to the title two years in a row with; that's exactly what Alonso achieved,why would you think he's any different in my book or is somehow deserving of more attention because of this? :confused:

Already given my reasons in the post you quoted.

It's not true to say Alonso had a better car than Schumacher in 2006.


#8873 BRK

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:54

@thechin: bullshit. He hadn't laid his hands on a dominant car until 2002: I've mentioned somewhere up there that he had won 53 races to Alonso's 26 at the same stage in their careers - counting only up to 2001. That's like trouncing someone and then crumpling them up into a tiny little ball for added effect.

The only two drivers in recent years that are in the same range are Prost and Senna. And Alonso did have a better car than Schumacher for the majority of 2006, I really don't know how you could argue this isn't true unless you were being utterly biased. Nice username,though,I'm sure you weren't trolling at all earlier on in the thread.

Edited by BRK, 22 March 2011 - 18:56.


#8874 Augurk

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:54

The Schumacher domination period was absolutely achieved with a car and tyre advantage. I believe Michael is/was an incredible driver, it's just his stats and achievements are skewed by the advantage he held for these years.

Skewed or rightly represented as he was the only driver to have created and maintained that kind of advantage together with his dream team around him? :)

#8875 Group B

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:57

The Schumacher domination period was absolutely achieved with a car and tyre advantage. I believe Michael is/was an incredible driver, it's just his stats and achievements are skewed by the advantage he held for these years.

Well, what are you calling the 'domination period'?

#8876 salamin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 18:59

It's not true to say Alonso had a better car than Schumacher in 2006.


alonso got all his wins with the illegal mass damper system (excluding japan - MS engine gone from p1) so yeah, he got an altered car after the german GP (i think) - but he won the CC with a better and illegal car :wave:

#8877 thechin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:03

@thechin: bullshit. He hadn't laid his hands on a dominant car until 2002: I've mentioned somewhere up there that he had won 53 races to Alonso's 26 at the same stage in their careers - counting only up to 2001. That's like trouncing someone and then crumpling them up into a tiny little ball for added effect.

The only two drivers in recent years that are in the same range are Prost and Senna. And Alonso did have a better car than Schumacher for the majority of 2006, I really don't know how you could argue this isn't true unless you were being utterly biased. Nice username,though,I'm sure you weren't trolling at all earlier on in the thread.

'All hail the mighty Schumi! Bow before him while he trounces and crumples those who dare to challenge him!'

Seriously, none of these guys are supermen. Schumacher is a very good driver who worked himself into a unique set of circumstances that have never happened before and will probably never happen again (for that amount of time) and took almost full advantage. The shock for him (and his fans) in 2006 was that there are other good drivers out there.

#8878 thechin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:04

Well, what are you calling the 'domination period'?

2001 - 2004

#8879 Ruf

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:05

The Schumacher domination period was absolutely achieved with a car and tyre advantage. I believe Michael is/was an incredible driver, it's just his stats and achievements are skewed by the advantage he held for these years.

Assuming that you are right, you are wrong at least about the tire advantage by the way, but for the sake of conversation let's say that you are right in both aspects. But two obvious questions pop up. 1) Perhaps he did have a little bit of input in building that dominat car? And the second, maybe there is a reason as to why was he given those all-winning cars? Something like what came first, the chicken or the egg.

Anyway, if he had that overwhelming hardware advantage that means that his teammates should reflect that in the final standings. Yes yes, I know, they were by contract prevented to challenge him but surely those same contracts clearly stipulated that those leutenants/slaves/second fiddles have to, by contract, defeat everyone else, am I right? Other than 2002 and 2004 that didn't happen. That's only 2 championships out 7.
-----------------------
Ivand911, why do you keep quoting that garbage from planetf1? They're definitelly not informative and they're not even funny anymore, assuming that they were actually funny at some point... Just curious. :confused:

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#8880 BRK

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:07

'All hail the mighty Schumi! Bow before him while he trounces and crumples those who dare to challenge him!'

Seriously, none of these guys are supermen. Schumacher is a very good driver who worked himself into a unique set of circumstances that have never happened before and will probably never happen again (for that amount of time) and took almost full advantage. The shock for him (and his fans) in 2006 was that there are other good drivers out there.


All of which is completely irrelevant to your previous attempt at trolling which I responded to. I guess you realized I was right about the trouncing and had to explore new avenues now.

#8881 thechin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:12

Assuming that you are right, you are wrong at least about the tire advantage by the way, but for the sake of conversation let's say that you are right in both aspects. But two obvious questions pop up. 1) Perhaps he did have a little bit of input in building that dominat car? And the second, maybe there is a reason as to why was he given those all-winning cars? Something like what came first, the chicken or the egg.

Anyway, if he had that overwhelming hardware advantage that means that his teammates should reflect that in the final standings. Yes yes, I know, they were by contract prevented to challenge him but surely those same contracts clearly stipulated that those leutenants/slaves/second fiddles have to, by contract, defeat everyone else, am I right? Other than 2002 and 2004 that didn't happen. That's only 2 championships out 7.
-----------------------
Ivand911, why do you keep quoting that garbage from planetf1? They're definitelly not informative and they're not even funny anymore, assuming that they were actually funny at some point... Just curious. :confused:

Yes, i'm sure he did have massive input into making the cars fast. Just that for years he had tailor made tyres and a test track to pound round and round until things were perfect. I'm not disputing that he was/is a great driver, just that people need to be realistic in their assessment of him.

By the way, Fisichella finished 5th in 2005 and 4th in 2006.

#8882 Group B

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:14

2001 - 2004

OK, well I think there's certainly a good argument that he had the best car for most of those years, if not neccessarily all of them. See now you're being sensible and not coming across as a troll. Trouble is now you've already put several backs up with your opening gambit and started a sh*t fight. :well:

#8883 thechin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:16

OK, well I think there's certainly a good argument that he had the best car for most of those years, if not neccessarily all of them. See now you're being sensible and not coming across as a troll. Trouble is now you've already put several backs up with your opening gambit and started a sh*t fight. :well:

Sorry, didn't think people would respond as such. I take the tone of it back, I wasn't having a go at Schumi, just the way people view things.

#8884 Ruf

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:16

Yes, i'm sure he did have massive input into making the cars fast. Just that for years he had tailor made tyres and a test track to pound round and round until things were perfect.

Mmmkay, so Ferrari and Schumacher invested in facilities and worked their asses hard and they got results. Your point is... what exactly?

Didn't quite figure where Fisi fits into this debate.

#8885 Tardis40

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:38

No need for anyone to get offended. We're all motorsport fans together at the end of the day.

It's hard to really know for certain what were all the variables that made Michael's run so outstanding. But in the final analysis, he still had to drive the car. It didn't drive itself. It is what it is.

Now we look forward to a new success. Only a few more days and we'll see how the W02 compares to the other big guns. Maybe he'll have a shot at that eighth title that was snatched away so cruelly in Japan 2006.








#8886 RSNS

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 19:50

You could say I was underestimating them if there was even a shred of evidence to support the notion that they could match MS in his prime: there isn't any.

Look at their first title winning campaigns. Schumacher had effectively only 75% of the season to get the job done, was robbed of a win and had two gifted to his chief rival: and yet managed to win more than either Alonso or Hamilton could. Alonso further had the benefit of a superior car in the first half of his season,a luxury that MS didn't have. Hamilton did a better job considering how good the Ferrari was, but was it as convincing as 1994? Absolutely not. MS won more in 12 races than Alonso or Hamilton could in an entire season.


Look at Alonso's career stats. At the same stage in their respective careers, Schumacher had won more than twice as many races as Alonso has managed so far: 53 to 26. There's a massive gulf between the win percentages of someone like Alonso and drivers like Schumacher and Senna, at every stage of their careers. FA has been racing for ten years now and so far there has been absolutely nothing to suggest he is capable of doing as good a job with a dominant car. If people choose to ignore the facts, even subjectively speaking, I am yet to see a single demon drive from Alonso of the same calibre as, for instance, Spain 94 or Monaco 97. What is amusing to me is that people persist with believing this baseless 'most complete driver' nonsense because of the hype, and are then at a loss words to explain some of his 'uncharacteristic' mistakes year after year. Schumacher also had no real weaknesses at this stage in his career, unlike Hamilton who has messed up twice when it counts most.


I think this is an objective assessment, and I'm not being ironic. And I don't even like Schumacher!

#8887 Johnrambo

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 20:01

Maybe he'll have a shot at that eighth title that was snatched away so cruelly in Japan 2006.


MS fans are the last people who can talk about cruelty. The guy was provided by Ferrari a virtually bulletproof car for many years. Wasn't it at somepoint that MS had done almost 100 races without a DNF for technical reasons. If anything Japan 2006 was long overdue.

#8888 jj2728

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 21:34

MS fans are the last people who can talk about cruelty. The guy was provided by Ferrari a virtually bulletproof car for many years. Wasn't it at somepoint that MS had done almost 100 races without a DNF for technical reasons. If anything Japan 2006 was long overdue.


And of course no teammate throughout his tenure at Ferrari to challenge him. Irvine? Barrichello? Puhlease....sometimes it is so easy for people to point out his stats, throw this victory or that drive into the mix as a rebuttal to anyone claiming that another driver may have had a good race that MAY have matched up to his. It's never the driver that has the decent drive, but the car that allowed that driver to do so. And when it IS the driver instead of the car, then of course MS had a much better drive somewhere else in an inferior car...And of course every driver on the grid is pretty much 3rd or 4th rate compared to him... :rolleyes:
I give Schumacher credit for one thing, he turned Ferrari into an organized and dominating team. He brought along the right people, brought along massive motivation, was the undisputed number 1, got paid huge $$$$ for doing so and reaped the benefits.
IF he can do it at Mercedes, hat's off to him.

#8889 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 21:35

if he would have had a technical dnf in 2002 or 2004 it wouldn;t have mattered. he had it in 2006 when it mattered

but what is all this talk about 2006??

#8890 Frans

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 22:35

Hehehe, in 2006 his car/team package was way better than last years and back then he was able to win something (a race or so). That's probably why.

Let it not be misunderstood, Schumacher drove also in 2010, and about that season the Schumacher fans will not talk to much, for obvious reasons. What I find weird, is that almost everybody say's Schumacher is very talented and stuff like that. As if he is more talented than others, come on be real. The man is been chosen to fit in the myth building that the FIA and others organised after/during 1994, when Senna left the sport so abruptly. Somehow this sport needs a person better than the rest. Even if it's not so, at least the fans must believe it is there. Schumacher fitted the shoe, and kept walking with it untill 2006. He got 7 titles under indeed special circumstances, what have NOTHING to do with his talent or something like that at all. He is massifly overrated and many of his fans will never see the treu Schumacher, like he was more or less in 2010. In 2010 he was NOT the fastest Mercedes powered driver. Not even close, he was even fighting and struggling with other teams also powered by Mercedes engine's and they're names were NOT McLarens.
Do not forget that Schumacher's dominance was more a result of Germany's economy, than his hands and feet.

He must have been very very happy with the new point system, otherwise he would have never had so many points in 2010 as he got in the end.

Let me ask you one question. WHAT IF, 2010 was the 1st season of Schumacher's true talent? Without the help of teamorders, special tires, illiegal traction control and other stuff they invented to make him (or better said; his car) go faster than the rest. Sure, in the end you have to DO it. Get the results and simply do it. Haveing the best car and stuff won' make you a winner per se. But he did that. He managed it 7 f*cking times. But still I have not seen something super extraordinary from the man to come up with the conclusion that he is sooo great and talented. Not ONCE.

He has the numbers, sure. Let it be so. But he does not have the " ". Ya know ... I don't know the word, but I think some of you can understand what I mean.... (or not).

2010 was a splendid season. One I didn't expect to be honest. I was afraid the Brawn-Schumi tricks and treats where right up there ... to sting me hard in 2010. But it didn't. I had an amazing season in 2010 thanks to that. And I hope, pray and will keep praying it will be so again in 2011. No indications out there why it shouldn't actually, so I am not worried.

If 2011 will be another 2010-season for Schumacher (his perfomance-wise) then many people will have to open, or re-open they're eyes. I know after a winter season the hopes are high again, and that everything could change back into how it once was. But, don't get your hopes up to high.

Schumacher did it, and won't do it again. The powers what where, are not there anymore for him. He's done, finito, over and Schluß.

#8891 salamin

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 22:56

Do not forget that Schumacher's dominance was more a result of Germany's economy, than his hands and feet.


the german economy ... WHAT ELSE ??

#8892 Frans

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 00:37

Yes, money talked, Schumi won. It was all about money, never talent, and the Schumacher piggey-bank is empty/over.

#8893 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 00:41

Let's cut out the baiting please.

#8894 Tardis40

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:23

MS fans are the last people who can talk about cruelty. The guy was provided by Ferrari a virtually bulletproof car for many years. Wasn't it at somepoint that MS had done almost 100 races without a DNF for technical reasons. If anything Japan 2006 was long overdue.


I can't argue with you, that had to be a miserable period for staunch fans of other drivers/teams.


#8895 vidc

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:24

bla bla bla

i really admire your will for trolling...you write long posts,but you could just write that you think schumacher is bad driver...
you're amazing :D


#8896 black magic

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:37

except frans the myth had started well before senna's demise

senna himself had verbalised that schumacher was his greatest rival prior to what proved his final season.

#8897 Polle

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:37

wb frans

#8898 genespleen

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:47

the myth building that the FIA and others organised after/during 1994, when Senna left the sport so abruptly.


Summer's on the way; that tin-foil hat of yours is going to quickly get hot.


#8899 ivand911

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 07:50

But still I have not seen something super extraordinary from the man to come up with the conclusion that he is sooo great and talented. Not ONCE.

Frans, you right ,he is nothing special! He can't fly, he can't walk on water. He is just human. But, as you say he made 2010 special for you and he will make 2011 special for you too. For his fans also. This is what matters in the end. This is why he is special.


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#8900 libano

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 14:02

except frans the myth had started well before senna's demise

senna himself had verbalised that schumacher was his greatest rival prior to what proved his final season.



choices, choices....who to believe? frans or ayrton senna?

:drunk: