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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#9051 Raelene

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 01:44

better to be 3 places up than dropping back at the start. He's just needs to get through the first lap without being hit ;)

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#9052 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 05:54

Good job, Tardis40. Apparently some people don't even watch the race before logging on here to contribute. I thought he would have been battling with the two Ferraris (splitting the pair) had he not been involved in the first corner incident.


After he picked up the puncture he headed back to the pits on three wheels and then spent the next 20 or so laps driving around with a bent suspension and broken floor with the car pulling every which way: all in all a very 'entertaining' race, in his own words.

#9053 ivand911

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 06:52

He made one mistake yesterday. He needed to follow Nico around Alonso, but he get on the left and stuck behind Alonso when he left and return on the track. I guess he expected Alonso to be faster than Nico in the corner. Haime mistake is obvious, he was behind and he stop in Michael tyre. Pretty bad driving from him.

#9054 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:05

Some of you seem to be looking at every possible reason and excuse to, if not limit the blame, then keep Schumacher completely blameless for the simple fact that he is no longer one of the top dogs of the sport. THAT is a simple fact.

#9055 ivand911

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:14

Some of you seem to be looking at every possible reason and excuse to, if not limit the blame, then keep Schumacher completely blameless for the simple fact that he is no longer one of the top dogs of the sport. THAT is a simple fact.

We are happy that you discover this fact. We will never know if he is top dog. For that he need top car. Which 99% is sure he will never have. That is another fact for you.

Edited by ivand911, 28 March 2011 - 12:14.


#9056 FenderJaguar

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:35

Just when I thought that maybe he would be stronger this season and not totally SUCK - he seemed so 2010 again. It is both sad and funny at the same time. I am OK with him if he get some good results but if nothing happens I think it is better he call it quits midseason.

#9057 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:42

We are happy that you discover this fact. We will never know if he is top dog. For that he need top car. Which 99% is sure he will never have. That is another fact for you.


Why does he need a top car? So many of you have said that he was the best even when he didn't have the best car. And on occasion, yes he was, but that's over now. And that is fact.

#9058 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:04

Schumacher just isn't fast enough to beat rosberg, I fear Schumacher could be having a few more bumps and scrapes with the middle pack this year as he's rarely fast enough to make it to q3

#9059 ivand911

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:09

Why does he need a top car? So many of you have said that he was the best even when he didn't have the best car. And on occasion, yes he was, but that's over now. And that is fact.

But, he still have second or third best car then. Not 5-6th best, like now. How was Alonso in 2008/2009?
Wass1985 , I think if car stay like in Australia I think they both will have bumps and scrapes with the middle pack this year. Like in Australia.
"Half of Michaels undertray was broken which costs 40-50 points of downforce, Haug explains."
http://www.auto-moto...en-3567018.html

Edited by ivand911, 28 March 2011 - 13:29.


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#9060 destiny

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:26

Some of you seem to be looking at every possible reason and excuse to, if not limit the blame, then keep Schumacher completely blameless for the simple fact that he is no longer one of the top dogs of the sport. THAT is a simple fact.


"Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent ".He does not need any excuse like all of the drivers do.

#9061 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:32

"Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent ".He does not need any excuse like all of the drivers do.



He does not need an excuse for what? His lack of class?

#9062 ivand911

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:36

He does not need an excuse for what? His lack of class?

No, he don't need to have excuse for you.

Edited by ivand911, 28 March 2011 - 13:38.


#9063 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:41

Why does he need a top car? So many of you have said that he was the best even when he didn't have the best car. And on occasion, yes he was, but that's over now. And that is fact.


For the same reason Hamilton needs one. He couldn't make into Q2 in 09 until they fixed the car. Then suddenly he was winning races.

Michael had arguably the most dominant year ever in 2004, winning 12 out of the first 13 races. The following year there was a rule change and Bridgestone couldn't provide their teams with a competitive tire. He won one race and that was a gift. In 2006 the single set of tires rule was abandoned and he was looking good for title #8 until an engine failure in the penultimate race.

When Michael came into F1 in the early 90's it wasn't the ultra refined science that it has become. There was still room for "seat of the pants" talent to show itself. Today, with the exception of a wet lottery, if you don't have the machinery you're screwed.



#9064 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:44

No, he don't need excuse from you.


You're wrong. Last I heard Michael was totally downcast after reading some his his critics' baseless nerdrage comments and refused to be interviewed for a response.


Moving on from comedy time: http://sidepodcast.c...rom-the-circuit

Merc live telemetry from the circuit, did anyone use it for the race on Sunday? Looks interesting.

#9065 destiny

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:49

He does not need an excuse for what? His lack of class?


Are you saying that Michael lacks class :eek: you must really dislike him to make such a statement .

Pls tell me of a current driver who has class as per your view.

Edited by destiny, 28 March 2011 - 13:52.


#9066 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 13:55

Are you saying that Michael lacks class :eek: you must really dislike him to make such a statement .

Pls tell me of a current driver who has class as per your view.


Of course I'm saying he lacks class. And no, I am neither here nor there with regards to him. I have said as much in the past. And it has nothing to do with whether or not I think ANY of today's F! drivers have class. I'm saying he lacks it, that's all.

#9067 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 14:21

Some of you seem to be looking at every possible reason and excuse to, if not limit the blame, then keep Schumacher completely blameless for the simple fact that he is no longer one of the top dogs of the sport. THAT is a simple fact.


How is he to blame for that puncture?

Of course I'm saying he lacks class. And no, I am neither here nor there with regards to him. I have said as much in the past. And it has nothing to do with whether or not I think ANY of today's F! drivers have class. I'm saying he lacks it, that's all.


Well you are well within your rights to have that opinion, so what is your point? How is having class or not relative to racing and the puncture? It seems to me it only relates to you. :)

#9068 JtP1

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 14:28

Where is the "obvious" evidence metz is refering to with claims that Schumacher caused the altercation? BBC reported that it was actually Alguersuari who was the one who was behind it, and from videos I have seen, unfortunately I cannot make my mind one way or another.


After years of it being Schumachers fault when Damon ran into the back of him. Commentators just working from previous experience.

Edited by JtP1, 28 March 2011 - 14:29.


#9069 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 14:28

How is he to blame for that puncture?



Well you are well within your rights to have that opinion, so what is your point? How is having class or not relative to racing and the puncture? It seems to me it only relates to you. :)



Ok, let me make it simple for you. Firstly, it was not I who mentioned Schumacher's class or lack there of. Someone mentioned earlier that 'form is temporary, class is permanent" So scroll up and read a bit before you throw out accusations. Did I say he was to blame for his puncture? No, I did not. I've said that he is well past his prime and I stand by that.

#9070 destiny

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 14:59

Ok, let me make it simple for you. Firstly, it was not I who mentioned Schumacher's class or lack there of. Someone mentioned earlier that 'form is temporary, class is permanent" So scroll up and read a bit before you throw out accusations. Did I say he was to blame for his puncture? No, I did not. I've said that he is well past his prime and I stand by that.


I said "Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent "

What i mentioned as class was that Michael's achievement in the last 2 decades.

His record speaks for his class.What i mentioned as Form was his bad patch for various reasons

You said Michael lacks class.Now tell me what does Michael lack.

Edited by destiny, 28 March 2011 - 15:00.


#9071 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:17

I said "Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent "

What i mentioned as class was that Michael's achievement in the last 2 decades.

His record speaks for his class.What i mentioned as Form was his bad patch for various reasons

You said Michael lacks class.Now tell me what does Michael lack.


When you say achievments, do you mean his stats? If so, stats and having class have nothing to do with one another. Schumacher lacks class and that is MHO (my humble opinion). I think at best he is a lacklustre personality. And THAT is opinion and nothing more.

#9072 DutchCruijff

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:35

When you say achievments, do you mean his stats? If so, stats and having class have nothing to do with one another. Schumacher lacks class and that is MHO (my humble opinion). I think at best he is a lacklustre personality. And THAT is opinion and nothing more.

The same Schumi who donated $10 million relief aid concerning the '04 Tsunami? :rotfl:

#9073 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:36

The same Schumi who donated $10 million relief aid concerning the '04 Tsunami? :rotfl:


Yes, the same.

#9074 ivand911

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:37

When you say achievments, do you mean his stats? If so, stats and having class have nothing to do with one another. Schumacher lacks class and that is MHO (my humble opinion). I think at best he is a lacklustre personality. And THAT is opinion and nothing more.

For me is important that he doesn't lack stats. About class, I don't care.


#9075 DutchCruijff

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:39

Yes, the same.

Bitter.

#9076 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:43

Surely everyone is entitled to an opinion. IMO the way he supports charity says something. He's a family man, never heard a scandalous word about his personal life. His reaction upon topping Senna's records showed a side of his nature that doesn't often come out.


Edited by Tardis40, 28 March 2011 - 15:43.


#9077 Gareth

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:51

Schumacher lacks class and that is MHO (my humble opinion).

In the expression "form is temporary, class is permenant" in a sporting context the word "class" is not referring to whether someone has integrity, decency etc (or whether they are a minor royal). It refers to their sporting performance.

#9078 destiny

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:57

:up:

Surely everyone is entitled to an opinion. IMO the way he supports charity says something. He's a family man, never heard a scandalous word about his personal life. His reaction upon topping Senna's records showed a side of his nature that doesn't often come out.



#9079 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:06

Bitter.


No, not at all. Why in the world would I be bitter? Look, I grew up in a different era, probably, than most of you. To me the term 'class', when referring to a driver means someone along the lines of a Fangio, a de Portago, a Bandini, a Clark, a Von Trips. Simply because Schumacher has donated money (which is laudable) and has an austere family life, doesn't IMHO, give him class. I just happen to look at it differently. The fact that I don't fawn over him or his accomplishments does not mean that I am at all bitter. Quite frankly, I just don't care for him and I think he should have stayed retired.

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#9080 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:11

In the expression "form is temporary, class is permenant" in a sporting context the word "class" is not referring to whether someone has integrity, decency etc (or whether they are a minor royal). It refers to their sporting performance.


I'd never heard it referred to in that context and had to look it up. I didn't realize it was an old football (not U.S.) term. Hmmm, well one learns something new everyday.

#9081 Gareth

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:12

I'd never heard it referred to in that context and had to look it up. I didn't realize it was an old football (not U.S.) term. Hmmm, well one learns something new everyday.

IMO, it is only to your credit that you've not watched enough of the sport where it gets mentioned the most to have heard it before :up: :D

#9082 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:21

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally

#9083 Fondmetal

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:28

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally


You clearly are clueless mate!

I suggest you look back at his debut season and his early years in F1.

#9084 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:34

You clearly are clueless mate!

I suggest you look back at his debut season and his early years in F1.


I have and Hamilton and alonso would have done better in the same situations. Schumacher is going to get spanked yet again just like lastyear by rosberg. You are cluless one!!!

#9085 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:35

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally



Yes. Personally. That is your opinion, and this is mine. With the team around him as it was? Of course. Hamilton would not have too much chance. I fancy Alonoso's second WDC to be a lucky one too.

ps: I rate Vettel and Rosberg higher than either of them.

Edited by Szoelloe, 28 March 2011 - 17:37.


#9086 jav

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:41

I want MSC and Merc to succeed but fear they've gone backward compared to last year. After all the effort and fanfare to improve on 2010- the early stats suggest they have some work to do just to scratch back to where they were with the W01.

Schumi once again failed in qualifying compared to his team mate. Merc failed in qualifying and the race to be competitive with more pears than last year. Renaults #2 beat both of our guys. I imagine Kubuca would have also. McLaren, who looked abysmal in testing clearly out shined Merc despite having invested less testing and time in the new car. Ferrari had some problems but they were squarly in Q3 and finished in the points.

KERS problems?? Not an excuse in my book. Redbull had KERS problems, correctly chose not to use it AT ALL and still blew everyone away. Between testing and the race, I'd say Merc is at this point, in 7th position even without considering points. RB, MC,Ferrari, Renualt, Sauber, TR all seem to have more early promise than Merc.

And yes- As a MS fan- I will admit Nico did better than MS both in qualifying and the race- period. That they both sit at zero points is more of pity in Nico's case- and even MS said as much. It's largely down to the fact that in like cars- MS qualified his in the muck. The muck is known to be treacherous in starts. Sure he made up some spots on the start but was still in the muck behind Nico. If he'd qualified ahead of Nico and made up 3 spots at the start, then the whole dynamic changes. Nico at least stayed safe at the start and was later taken out by RB through no fault of his own. If MS doesn't step up and fast- he will again be relegated to #2 status- rightfully so.

Edited by jav, 28 March 2011 - 17:42.


#9087 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:41

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally


Of course not. He only had Senna (3), Prost (4), Mansell (1), Piquet (3), Hill (1), Hakkinan (2), and Villeneuve (1).

A measly 15 WDCs, compared to Alonso and Hamilton's whopping total of three.



#9088 DutchCruijff

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:43

Of course not. He only had Senna (3), Prost (4), Mansell (1), Piquet (3), Hill (1), Hakkinan (2), and Villeneuve (1).

A measly 15 WDCs, compared to Alonso and Hamilton's whopping total of three.

Senna, Prost, Mansell & Piquet? Slightly weird inclusions.

#9089 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:44

Quite frankly, I just don't care for him and I think he should have stayed retired.


Clearly you seem to care enough to post on the Schumacher thread daily.

No, not at all. Why in the world would I be bitter? Look, I grew up in a different era, probably, than most of you. To me the term 'class', when referring to a driver means someone along the lines of a Fangio, a de Portago, a Bandini, a Clark, a Von Trips. Simply because Schumacher has donated money (which is laudable) and has an austere family life, doesn't IMHO, give him class. I just happen to look at it differently.


Then perhaps you shouldn't be watching F1 in 2011 at all as every single driver on the grid lacks class, by your definition. ( or whatever fantasy you had in mind )

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally


Once again, pretend for a moment that Schumacher didn't exist or didn't race in F1, and consider the way things would have panned out over the years. Not ONE driver on the grid would have won more than 3 titles as the competition would have been intense, and people would have elevated multiple title winners like Hill or Hakkinen to the status of legends. Much like what they're doing today with Hamilton or Alonso.

F1 is competitive today because there is no single driver that stands out from the rest, unlike Schumacher was during his era.

Edited by BRK, 28 March 2011 - 17:46.


#9090 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:50

Of course not. He only had Senna (3), Prost (4), Mansell (1), Piquet (3), Hill (1), Hakkinan (2), and Villeneuve (1).

A measly 15 WDCs, compared to Alonso and Hamilton's whopping total of three.


Question. Did Schumacher ever beat Prost, senna, mansell to a world title?? Answer. NO!!

#9091 tifosiMac

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:51

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally

He would have won WDC's because he was a talented driver but I do think he succeeded in a slightly less competitive era regarding strong teams and drivers on the grid post 1994. I think the current crop of drivers make the competition the strongest it has been since the mid 80's but that my opinion. :)

#9092 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:52

Once again, pretend for a moment that Schumacher didn't exist or didn't race in F1, and consider the way things would have panned out over the years. Not ONE driver on the grid would have won more than 3 titles as the competition would have been intense, and people would have elevated multiple title winners like Hill or Hakkinen to the status of legends. Much like what they're doing today with Hamilton or Alonso.

F1 is competitive today because there is no single driver that stands out from the rest, unlike Schumacher was during his era.


oh barf. Please tell us that a driver makes all the difference in F1, and that the unique tire development and secret veto for Ferrari had nothing to do with it.

Schumi proved in 2010-11 that a mid-pack car results in a mid-pack driver. i.e. he's no better than most of them.

He had a great team, a unique tire situation, and a secret rule -take all those way and you get Schumi of last year and this year.


He has to AT LEAST better his team mate to be taken seriously.

#9093 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:58

oh barf. Please tell us that a driver makes all the difference in F1, and that the unique tire development and secret veto for Ferrari had nothing to do with it.

Schumi proved in 2010-11 that a mid-pack car results in a mid-pack driver. i.e. he's no better than most of them.

He had a great team, a unique tire situation, and a secret rule -take all those way and you get Schumi of last year and this year.


He has to AT LEAST better his team mate to be taken seriously.


Hear hear

#9094 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:00

oh barf. Please tell us that a driver makes all the difference in F1, and that the unique tire development and secret veto for Ferrari had nothing to do with it.

Schumi proved in 2010-11 that a mid-pack car results in a mid-pack driver. i.e. he's no better than most of them.

He had a great team, a unique tire situation, and a secret rule -take all those way and you get Schumi of last year and this year.


He has to AT LEAST better his team mate to be taken seriously.


1. Without Schumacher there never would have been a Ferrari superteam or the nutcase conspiracy theories.

2. You are comparing a 42 year old Schumacher that had not raced in three years to the Schumacher of the nineties, when he was in his prime.



#9095 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:00

Question. Did Schumacher ever beat Prost, senna, mansell to a world title?? Answer. NO!!


No, and neither did Hamilton or Alonso.

Those were the men he competed against and, with the exception of Piquet who won all his titles in the 80's and with the addition of Alonso, took every title that Michael didn't take during his sixteen year run from 1991 to 2006.

He won 7 out of 16, that only leaves nine for everybody else. Kinda limits the scope of potential achievement.



#9096 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:03

Clearly you seem to care enough to post on the Schumacher thread daily.
Then perhaps you shouldn't be watching F1 in 2011 at all as every single driver on the grid lacks class, by your definition. ( or whatever fantasy you had in mind )


I post to express an opinion, which is my right, if I'm not mistaken. I never once said that every single driver on the grid lacks class. No fantasies whatsoever.

#9097 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:06

F1 is competitive today because there is no single driver that stands out from the rest, unlike Schumacher was during his era.


Wrong. F1 is competitive today because of the quality of the drivers on the grid and these same drivers are leaving Schumacher well behind them.

#9098 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:29

He would have won WDC's because he was a talented driver but I do think he succeeded in a slightly less competitive era regarding strong teams and drivers on the grid post 1994. I think the current crop of drivers make the competition the strongest it has been since the mid 80's but that my opinion. :)


I agree with you, there are a lot of good young drivers right now. More than there are good cars. Obviously the fruit of young driver development programs. I don't think a driver could get into F1 the way Michael and the older guys did anymore. You've got to get the equivalent of your graduate degree and several years experience in junior formulae before you would even be considered a candidate.


#9099 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:29

I post to express an opinion, which is my right, if I'm not mistaken. I never once said that every single driver on the grid lacks class. No fantasies whatsoever.


Not questioning your right, obviously, that was merely the observation that you wouldn't give a damn either way if you really didn't 'care' about Schumacher or have any opinions you'd want people to hear out.

You were on about Fangio and co in your post, so by those romantic standards (real or imagined) every driver on the current grid would indeed lack class, as they're all selfish sharks that wouldn't give a damn about their fellow racer.

Wrong. F1 is competitive today because of the quality of the drivers on the grid and these same drivers are leaving Schumacher well behind them.


And how can you tell? Any facts, evidence, anything concrete at all?

Or is that just your empty opinion, with nothing to back up your claims or prove anything...

On the other hand, as I said, if you took Schumacher out of the equation all his rivals would have shared the scraps between them and would have been considered equals, making the field 'ultra competitive', as it is today.

The fact is that Schumacher was so much better than the rest that some of the detractors have had to come up with incredible explanations for his success, like for instance the fantastic notion that somehow no driver of high calibre had managed to reach the pinnacle of motorsport to compete against him for the fifteen year period that he raced in his first career. I mean you can't hold it against him that he made them look like amateurs...

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#9100 destiny

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:47

The fact is that Schumacher was so much better than the rest that some of the detractors have had to come up with incredible explanations for his success, like for instance the fantastic notion that somehow no driver of high calibre had managed to reach the pinnacle of motorsport to compete against him for the fifteen year period that he raced in his first career. I mean you can't hold it against him that he made them look like amateurs...

:up: :)