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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#9051 destiny

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 14:59

Ok, let me make it simple for you. Firstly, it was not I who mentioned Schumacher's class or lack there of. Someone mentioned earlier that 'form is temporary, class is permanent" So scroll up and read a bit before you throw out accusations. Did I say he was to blame for his puncture? No, I did not. I've said that he is well past his prime and I stand by that.


I said "Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent "

What i mentioned as class was that Michael's achievement in the last 2 decades.

His record speaks for his class.What i mentioned as Form was his bad patch for various reasons

You said Michael lacks class.Now tell me what does Michael lack.

Edited by destiny, 28 March 2011 - 15:00.


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#9052 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:17

I said "Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent "

What i mentioned as class was that Michael's achievement in the last 2 decades.

His record speaks for his class.What i mentioned as Form was his bad patch for various reasons

You said Michael lacks class.Now tell me what does Michael lack.


When you say achievments, do you mean his stats? If so, stats and having class have nothing to do with one another. Schumacher lacks class and that is MHO (my humble opinion). I think at best he is a lacklustre personality. And THAT is opinion and nothing more.

#9053 DutchCruijff

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:35

When you say achievments, do you mean his stats? If so, stats and having class have nothing to do with one another. Schumacher lacks class and that is MHO (my humble opinion). I think at best he is a lacklustre personality. And THAT is opinion and nothing more.

The same Schumi who donated $10 million relief aid concerning the '04 Tsunami? :rotfl:

#9054 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:36

The same Schumi who donated $10 million relief aid concerning the '04 Tsunami? :rotfl:


Yes, the same.

#9055 ivand911

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:37

When you say achievments, do you mean his stats? If so, stats and having class have nothing to do with one another. Schumacher lacks class and that is MHO (my humble opinion). I think at best he is a lacklustre personality. And THAT is opinion and nothing more.

For me is important that he doesn't lack stats. About class, I don't care.


#9056 DutchCruijff

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:39

Yes, the same.

Bitter.

#9057 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:43

Surely everyone is entitled to an opinion. IMO the way he supports charity says something. He's a family man, never heard a scandalous word about his personal life. His reaction upon topping Senna's records showed a side of his nature that doesn't often come out.


Edited by Tardis40, 28 March 2011 - 15:43.


#9058 Gareth

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:51

Schumacher lacks class and that is MHO (my humble opinion).

In the expression "form is temporary, class is permenant" in a sporting context the word "class" is not referring to whether someone has integrity, decency etc (or whether they are a minor royal). It refers to their sporting performance.

#9059 destiny

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 15:57

:up:

Surely everyone is entitled to an opinion. IMO the way he supports charity says something. He's a family man, never heard a scandalous word about his personal life. His reaction upon topping Senna's records showed a side of his nature that doesn't often come out.



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#9060 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:06

Bitter.


No, not at all. Why in the world would I be bitter? Look, I grew up in a different era, probably, than most of you. To me the term 'class', when referring to a driver means someone along the lines of a Fangio, a de Portago, a Bandini, a Clark, a Von Trips. Simply because Schumacher has donated money (which is laudable) and has an austere family life, doesn't IMHO, give him class. I just happen to look at it differently. The fact that I don't fawn over him or his accomplishments does not mean that I am at all bitter. Quite frankly, I just don't care for him and I think he should have stayed retired.

#9061 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:11

In the expression "form is temporary, class is permenant" in a sporting context the word "class" is not referring to whether someone has integrity, decency etc (or whether they are a minor royal). It refers to their sporting performance.


I'd never heard it referred to in that context and had to look it up. I didn't realize it was an old football (not U.S.) term. Hmmm, well one learns something new everyday.

#9062 Gareth

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:12

I'd never heard it referred to in that context and had to look it up. I didn't realize it was an old football (not U.S.) term. Hmmm, well one learns something new everyday.

IMO, it is only to your credit that you've not watched enough of the sport where it gets mentioned the most to have heard it before :up: :D

#9063 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:21

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally

#9064 Fondmetal

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:28

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally


You clearly are clueless mate!

I suggest you look back at his debut season and his early years in F1.

#9065 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:34

You clearly are clueless mate!

I suggest you look back at his debut season and his early years in F1.


I have and Hamilton and alonso would have done better in the same situations. Schumacher is going to get spanked yet again just like lastyear by rosberg. You are cluless one!!!

#9066 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:35

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally



Yes. Personally. That is your opinion, and this is mine. With the team around him as it was? Of course. Hamilton would not have too much chance. I fancy Alonoso's second WDC to be a lucky one too.

ps: I rate Vettel and Rosberg higher than either of them.

Edited by Szoelloe, 28 March 2011 - 17:37.


#9067 jav

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:41

I want MSC and Merc to succeed but fear they've gone backward compared to last year. After all the effort and fanfare to improve on 2010- the early stats suggest they have some work to do just to scratch back to where they were with the W01.

Schumi once again failed in qualifying compared to his team mate. Merc failed in qualifying and the race to be competitive with more pears than last year. Renaults #2 beat both of our guys. I imagine Kubuca would have also. McLaren, who looked abysmal in testing clearly out shined Merc despite having invested less testing and time in the new car. Ferrari had some problems but they were squarly in Q3 and finished in the points.

KERS problems?? Not an excuse in my book. Redbull had KERS problems, correctly chose not to use it AT ALL and still blew everyone away. Between testing and the race, I'd say Merc is at this point, in 7th position even without considering points. RB, MC,Ferrari, Renualt, Sauber, TR all seem to have more early promise than Merc.

And yes- As a MS fan- I will admit Nico did better than MS both in qualifying and the race- period. That they both sit at zero points is more of pity in Nico's case- and even MS said as much. It's largely down to the fact that in like cars- MS qualified his in the muck. The muck is known to be treacherous in starts. Sure he made up some spots on the start but was still in the muck behind Nico. If he'd qualified ahead of Nico and made up 3 spots at the start, then the whole dynamic changes. Nico at least stayed safe at the start and was later taken out by RB through no fault of his own. If MS doesn't step up and fast- he will again be relegated to #2 status- rightfully so.

Edited by jav, 28 March 2011 - 17:42.


#9068 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:41

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally


Of course not. He only had Senna (3), Prost (4), Mansell (1), Piquet (3), Hill (1), Hakkinan (2), and Villeneuve (1).

A measly 15 WDCs, compared to Alonso and Hamilton's whopping total of three.



#9069 DutchCruijff

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:43

Of course not. He only had Senna (3), Prost (4), Mansell (1), Piquet (3), Hill (1), Hakkinan (2), and Villeneuve (1).

A measly 15 WDCs, compared to Alonso and Hamilton's whopping total of three.

Senna, Prost, Mansell & Piquet? Slightly weird inclusions.

#9070 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:44

Quite frankly, I just don't care for him and I think he should have stayed retired.


Clearly you seem to care enough to post on the Schumacher thread daily.

No, not at all. Why in the world would I be bitter? Look, I grew up in a different era, probably, than most of you. To me the term 'class', when referring to a driver means someone along the lines of a Fangio, a de Portago, a Bandini, a Clark, a Von Trips. Simply because Schumacher has donated money (which is laudable) and has an austere family life, doesn't IMHO, give him class. I just happen to look at it differently.


Then perhaps you shouldn't be watching F1 in 2011 at all as every single driver on the grid lacks class, by your definition. ( or whatever fantasy you had in mind )

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally


Once again, pretend for a moment that Schumacher didn't exist or didn't race in F1, and consider the way things would have panned out over the years. Not ONE driver on the grid would have won more than 3 titles as the competition would have been intense, and people would have elevated multiple title winners like Hill or Hakkinen to the status of legends. Much like what they're doing today with Hamilton or Alonso.

F1 is competitive today because there is no single driver that stands out from the rest, unlike Schumacher was during his era.

Edited by BRK, 28 March 2011 - 17:46.


#9071 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:50

Of course not. He only had Senna (3), Prost (4), Mansell (1), Piquet (3), Hill (1), Hakkinan (2), and Villeneuve (1).

A measly 15 WDCs, compared to Alonso and Hamilton's whopping total of three.


Question. Did Schumacher ever beat Prost, senna, mansell to a world title?? Answer. NO!!

#9072 tifosiMac

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:51

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally

He would have won WDC's because he was a talented driver but I do think he succeeded in a slightly less competitive era regarding strong teams and drivers on the grid post 1994. I think the current crop of drivers make the competition the strongest it has been since the mid 80's but that my opinion. :)

#9073 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:52

Once again, pretend for a moment that Schumacher didn't exist or didn't race in F1, and consider the way things would have panned out over the years. Not ONE driver on the grid would have won more than 3 titles as the competition would have been intense, and people would have elevated multiple title winners like Hill or Hakkinen to the status of legends. Much like what they're doing today with Hamilton or Alonso.

F1 is competitive today because there is no single driver that stands out from the rest, unlike Schumacher was during his era.


oh barf. Please tell us that a driver makes all the difference in F1, and that the unique tire development and secret veto for Ferrari had nothing to do with it.

Schumi proved in 2010-11 that a mid-pack car results in a mid-pack driver. i.e. he's no better than most of them.

He had a great team, a unique tire situation, and a secret rule -take all those way and you get Schumi of last year and this year.


He has to AT LEAST better his team mate to be taken seriously.

#9074 Wass1985

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 17:58

oh barf. Please tell us that a driver makes all the difference in F1, and that the unique tire development and secret veto for Ferrari had nothing to do with it.

Schumi proved in 2010-11 that a mid-pack car results in a mid-pack driver. i.e. he's no better than most of them.

He had a great team, a unique tire situation, and a secret rule -take all those way and you get Schumi of last year and this year.


He has to AT LEAST better his team mate to be taken seriously.


Hear hear

#9075 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:00

oh barf. Please tell us that a driver makes all the difference in F1, and that the unique tire development and secret veto for Ferrari had nothing to do with it.

Schumi proved in 2010-11 that a mid-pack car results in a mid-pack driver. i.e. he's no better than most of them.

He had a great team, a unique tire situation, and a secret rule -take all those way and you get Schumi of last year and this year.


He has to AT LEAST better his team mate to be taken seriously.


1. Without Schumacher there never would have been a Ferrari superteam or the nutcase conspiracy theories.

2. You are comparing a 42 year old Schumacher that had not raced in three years to the Schumacher of the nineties, when he was in his prime.



#9076 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:00

Question. Did Schumacher ever beat Prost, senna, mansell to a world title?? Answer. NO!!


No, and neither did Hamilton or Alonso.

Those were the men he competed against and, with the exception of Piquet who won all his titles in the 80's and with the addition of Alonso, took every title that Michael didn't take during his sixteen year run from 1991 to 2006.

He won 7 out of 16, that only leaves nine for everybody else. Kinda limits the scope of potential achievement.



#9077 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:03

Clearly you seem to care enough to post on the Schumacher thread daily.
Then perhaps you shouldn't be watching F1 in 2011 at all as every single driver on the grid lacks class, by your definition. ( or whatever fantasy you had in mind )


I post to express an opinion, which is my right, if I'm not mistaken. I never once said that every single driver on the grid lacks class. No fantasies whatsoever.

#9078 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:06

F1 is competitive today because there is no single driver that stands out from the rest, unlike Schumacher was during his era.


Wrong. F1 is competitive today because of the quality of the drivers on the grid and these same drivers are leaving Schumacher well behind them.

#9079 Tardis40

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:29

He would have won WDC's because he was a talented driver but I do think he succeeded in a slightly less competitive era regarding strong teams and drivers on the grid post 1994. I think the current crop of drivers make the competition the strongest it has been since the mid 80's but that my opinion. :)


I agree with you, there are a lot of good young drivers right now. More than there are good cars. Obviously the fruit of young driver development programs. I don't think a driver could get into F1 the way Michael and the older guys did anymore. You've got to get the equivalent of your graduate degree and several years experience in junior formulae before you would even be considered a candidate.


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#9080 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:29

I post to express an opinion, which is my right, if I'm not mistaken. I never once said that every single driver on the grid lacks class. No fantasies whatsoever.


Not questioning your right, obviously, that was merely the observation that you wouldn't give a damn either way if you really didn't 'care' about Schumacher or have any opinions you'd want people to hear out.

You were on about Fangio and co in your post, so by those romantic standards (real or imagined) every driver on the current grid would indeed lack class, as they're all selfish sharks that wouldn't give a damn about their fellow racer.

Wrong. F1 is competitive today because of the quality of the drivers on the grid and these same drivers are leaving Schumacher well behind them.


And how can you tell? Any facts, evidence, anything concrete at all?

Or is that just your empty opinion, with nothing to back up your claims or prove anything...

On the other hand, as I said, if you took Schumacher out of the equation all his rivals would have shared the scraps between them and would have been considered equals, making the field 'ultra competitive', as it is today.

The fact is that Schumacher was so much better than the rest that some of the detractors have had to come up with incredible explanations for his success, like for instance the fantastic notion that somehow no driver of high calibre had managed to reach the pinnacle of motorsport to compete against him for the fifteen year period that he raced in his first career. I mean you can't hold it against him that he made them look like amateurs...

#9081 destiny

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:47

The fact is that Schumacher was so much better than the rest that some of the detractors have had to come up with incredible explanations for his success, like for instance the fantastic notion that somehow no driver of high calibre had managed to reach the pinnacle of motorsport to compete against him for the fifteen year period that he raced in his first career. I mean you can't hold it against him that he made them look like amateurs...

:up: :)


#9082 Serkan_Evcimen

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:59

Question. Did Schumacher ever beat Prost, senna, mansell to a world title?? Answer. NO!!


If you look at things that way, Button and Raikkonen beat Hamilton and Alonso to a world title.
If you want to condescend Schumacher's WDCs by implying that his rivals were not strong, remember that Hamilton beat "Massa" for his only WDC.

#9083 Group B

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:22

:up:

#9084 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:25

You were on about Fangio and co in your post, so by those romantic standards (real or imagined) every driver on the current grid would indeed lack class, as they're all selfish sharks that wouldn't give a damn about their fellow racer.


You're the one making those insinuations, not me.

#9085 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:36

And how can you tell? Any facts, evidence, anything concrete at all?

Or is that just your empty opinion, with nothing to back up your claims or prove anything...

On the other hand, as I said, if you took Schumacher out of the equation all his rivals would have shared the scraps between them and would have been considered equals, making the field 'ultra competitive', as it is today.

The fact is that Schumacher was so much better than the rest that some of the detractors have had to come up with incredible explanations for his success, like for instance the fantastic notion that somehow no driver of high calibre had managed to reach the pinnacle of motorsport to compete against him for the fifteen year period that he raced in his first career. I mean you can't hold it against him that he made them look like amateurs...



Well, let's see, concrete facts, 4 world champions.
Empty opinion, of course it's your right to say my opinion is empty.
Scraps between them? I don't know what to say to that.
So much better than the rest making them look like amateurs? Ok, name the amateurs or is this YOUR empty opinion....but going by your avatar and signature I'd say it's more coming to the defense of someone whom you've put on a godlike pedestal and cannot believe that I or others would take issue with the fact and he is NOT a god, nor does he IMHO have any class. And he is past his prime.

#9086 Zoe

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:52

oh barf. Please tell us that a driver makes all the difference in F1, and that the unique tire development and secret veto for Ferrari had nothing to do with it.

[...]

He had a great team, a unique tire situation, and a secret rule -take all those way and you get Schumi of last year and this year.


If all that's so secret, how come that all the nutcase conspiracy theorists know everything about? Must be the tin foil hats that pass along all that secret knowledge.

Zoe

#9087 arknor

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 20:07

Question. Did Schumacher ever beat Prost, senna, mansell to a world title?? Answer. NO!!

looks like he was going to beat senna in 94, cant be bothered to argue it on here though, waste of time

#9088 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 21:23

You're the one making those insinuations, not me.


Yes,the implication being that Schumacher isn't the only one that would lack this 'class' you speak of.

Well, let's see, concrete facts, 4 world champions.
Empty opinion, of course it's your right to say my opinion is empty.
Scraps between them? I don't know what to say to that.
So much better than the rest making them look like amateurs? Ok, name the amateurs or is this YOUR empty opinion....but going by your avatar and signature I'd say it's more coming to the defense of someone whom you've put on a godlike pedestal and cannot believe that I or others would take issue with the fact and he is NOT a god, nor does he IMHO have any class. And he is past his prime.


They weren't amateurs, that's the point: compared to Schumacher they were probably nothing, but not by anyone else's standards. That's exactly why it's funny that people use this as an easy way out to discredit his achievements.

Facts: without Schumacher there would have been seven different title winners between 1994 and 2006, including two triple and two double world champions. 2006 would have been hailed as one of the greatest seasons in history as 5 world champions would have lined up on the grid with a total of six titles between them. As well as two of the youngest winners, Raikkonen and Alonso: same as Hamilton and Vettel after 2006. In other words, without Schumacher F1 would have been as (or even more) competitive during this period as it has been after 2006 and the drivers would have been considered just as great.

but going by your avatar and signature I'd say it's more coming to the defense of someone whom you've put on a godlike pedestal and cannot believe that I or others would take issue with the fact and he is NOT a god, nor does he IMHO have any class. And he is past his prime.


Nice way of finishing off with a barrage of pointless bashing and wild assumptions, probably because you can't justify any of it. You just sound like someone that's had a bad experience with fanboys in the past and can't get over it: if it's any help, I'd like to state that I don't think he's god. :lol:

Edited by BRK, 28 March 2011 - 21:25.


#9089 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 22:37

Nice way of finishing off with a barrage of pointless bashing and wild assumptions, probably because you can't justify any of it. You just sound like someone that's had a bad experience with fanboys in the past and can't get over it: if it's any help, I'd like to state that I don't think he's god. :lol:


No, no pointless bashing nor wild assumptions. Bad experiences with fanboys? Nope, wrong again. Sounds as if you are making the wild assumptions there. I have never discredited his achievements, yet when I state that it is MHO that he lacks class and is NOT the godlike creature that so many wish that he were, well the arrows start flying. And I cannot help but wonder how you can state as fact that without Schumacher there would have been what, 7 different title winners between 1994 and 2006? Please, enlighten us with the mathematical probablitlities that allowed you to come up with that FACT. You are stating nothing more than a hypothosis based on a hypothetical situation. And THAT is a fact.

Edited by jj2728, 29 March 2011 - 00:26.


#9090 SEP

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 22:52

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally



Schumacher would not have win a single title IF he had LH or Alonso driving equal cars as oponents, that is very clear and anyone except blind MS´s fans can see it. But you can´t deny MS would have won multiple WDC´s if he had a massive car advantadge for years EVEN having way better drivers as oponents.

#9091 baddog

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:34

I have never discredited his achievements, yet when I state that it is MHO that he lacks class and is NOT the godlike creature that so many wish that he were, well the arrows start flying.


No really? Blatant flamebait attracted flames? Thats not very surprising is it?

If you go into a thread about any driver and say they have no class, are past it and not as good (and possibly never as good) as the current crop, then you are going to get the arrows, and everyone will agree you asked for them.

I mean yes your points aren't as vapid and inflammatory as some (note the post about this one) but they are still asking for it.. personal insults towards drivers always are.

Edited by baddog, 29 March 2011 - 02:36.


#9092 SEP

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:43

Yes. Personally. That is your opinion, and this is mine. With the team around him as it was? Of course. Hamilton would not have too much chance. I fancy Alonoso's second WDC to be a lucky one too.

ps: I rate Vettel and Rosberg higher than either of them.



I think we all know by now what will be MS´s fans excuse for beeing spanked again.


#9093 jj2728

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:24

No really? Blatant flamebait attracted flames? Thats not very surprising is it?

If you go into a thread about any driver and say they have no class, are past it and not as good (and possibly never as good) as the current crop, then you are going to get the arrows, and everyone will agree you asked for them.

I mean yes your points aren't as vapid and inflammatory as some (note the post about this one) but they are still asking for it.. personal insults towards drivers always are.


Geez, I guess one of the arrow slingers has spoken. And since what I say is probably what many others think but are disinclined to do so because of the vitriol spewed forth, then maybe I have struck a nerve or 2 with the fan club. I have been, and will continue to voice an opinion. Get that? Do you understand what an opinion is? It is my opinion that he lacks class, that he has a younger teammate that is getting the better of him, and that he should have stayed retired. Sling away...sling away.

#9094 baddog

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:50

Geez, I guess one of the arrow slingers has spoken.


Me? not hardly.. I'm about as far from a flamer as you will find here.

And since what I say is probably what many others think but are disinclined to do so because of the vitriol spewed forth


Oh I'm sure if 'many others' think the same they will be happy to speak for themselves. Also that is one of the most classically weak debating tools in existence.. 'I'm speaking for a mass of people who would be here if you nasty folks didn't intimidate them all'. Surely you can do better than that?

, then maybe I have struck a nerve or 2 with the fan club.


Ah how wrong I was, you can do even worse. You are going for the whole set of logical fallacies or what?

I have been, and will continue to voice an opinion. Get that? Do you understand what an opinion is? It is my opinion that he lacks class, that he has a younger teammate that is getting the better of him, and that he should have stayed retired. Sling away...sling away.


Ah and even the 'Its my opinion, how dare you criticise my opinion, you are trying to step on my free speech' routine. Fine comedy show you are running here.

Your opinion is, in my opinion, nonsense. Your descent into personal insults about a driver is peurile and is calculated to cause people to react with annoyance. Do not try and put on some kind of innocent act when they do so.


#9095 Tardis40

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:09

Geez, I guess one of the arrow slingers has spoken. And since what I say is probably what many others think but are disinclined to do so because of the vitriol spewed forth, then maybe I have struck a nerve or 2 with the fan club. I have been, and will continue to voice an opinion. Get that? Do you understand what an opinion is? It is my opinion that he lacks class, that he has a younger teammate that is getting the better of him, and that he should have stayed retired. Sling away...sling away.


This is one fan club that has nothing to worry about. Michael's lifetime achievements are of a magnitude that only a handful of sportsmen ever can claim to be on the same tier. Metaphorically speaking, appreciating Michael is like enjoying the finest bottle of wine that money can buy. If your tastes run more to ale, then he's probably not for you.

You're entitled to an opinion just like everyone else, but if you're going to reiterate it so vociferously why not explain exactly what you mean by "no class".

I'm delighted to see him race again, although it has been a somewhat frustrating comeback so far. He hasn't had the opportunity to show what he can do, but that's okay. The faithful will always be there cheering him on whatever happens.




#9096 Jomyboy

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:31

I dont think anyone can take a gap and be competitive in the car any more thanks to limitations in testing. If you look at Heidfeld, you'd think Michael was supreme. I mean he was at least close to Rosberg throughout the year and sometimes the better of him. Plus at 42, I don't think age is at his side as well. In the history of Formula1, no driver has ever managed to change the rules because he was winning too much. Hamilton and Alonso are good drivers but I dont think they are extra special. Vettel has the makings of one, but lets see for far he can go with his form.

#9097 BRK

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 06:53

No, no pointless bashing nor wild assumptions. Bad experiences with fanboys? Nope, wrong again. Sounds as if you are making the wild assumptions there. I have never discredited his achievements, yet when I state that it is MHO that he lacks class and is NOT the godlike creature that so many wish that he were, well the arrows start flying. And I cannot help but wonder how you can state as fact that without Schumacher there would have been what, 7 different title winners between 1994 and 2006? Please, enlighten us with the mathematical probablitlities that allowed you to come up with that FACT. You are stating nothing more than a hypothosis based on a hypothetical situation. And THAT is a fact.


So on what basis are you trying to pass off as FACT that current drivers are better than Schumacher was in his prime? You're right that mine was hypothesis and I should've worded that differently, but since the point I was making seemed to fly straight over your head, here's a different approach to PROVE Schumacher was the better driver, with whatever facts we have at our disposal: http://forums.autosp...p;#entry4904631

And once again the same theme: nerdrage against perceived fanboys on the internet; mindless bashing and trolling.



#9098 Gareth

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 07:47

2. You are comparing a 42 year old Schumacher that had not raced in three years to the Schumacher of the nineties, when he was in his prime.

It surprises me how many people seek to draw conclusions from this stint in F1 for Schumi with regards to his last. And do so negatively.

To me, whilst he is clearly not of the same standard he was, it is to his credit that after 3 years out of the sport and at age 42 he can come back in and look like he deserves his spot on merit. Yes, Rosberg is beating him but not by so much that he doesn't look like he deserves to be there.

When Alonso or Hamilton (or whoever else is being put up as the latest "Schumi wouldn't have won so much with [X] in F1 at the same time" figure) return to the sport in their 40's after a 3 year break and win a world title then I'll maybe start to accept the argument that 2010/11 Schumacher shows that 94-04 Schumacher was a sham. Until then, I remain unconvinced.

#9099 BRK

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:59

It surprises me how many people seek to draw conclusions from this stint in F1 for Schumi with regards to his last. And do so negatively.

To me, whilst he is clearly not of the same standard he was, it is to his credit that after 3 years out of the sport and at age 42 he can come back in and look like he deserves his spot on merit. Yes, Rosberg is beating him but not by so much that he doesn't look like he deserves to be there.

When Alonso or Hamilton (or whoever else is being put up as the latest "Schumi wouldn't have won so much with [X] in F1 at the same time" figure) return to the sport in their 40's after a 3 year break and win a world title then I'll maybe start to accept the argument that 2010/11 Schumacher shows that 94-04 Schumacher was a sham. Until then, I remain unconvinced.


:up:

Much of their 'argument' is based on the fanciful and completely unjustifiable assumption that his rivals were average or below-average drivers, that somehow for a decade and half the sport passed through a vacuum when no driver of high calibre made it to the very top. This isn't just an inane belief, it's also an insult to the drivers that won races and titles during the Schumacher-era. As I pointed out earlier, if there had been no Schumacher, there's every possibility that Damon Hill and Mika Hakkinen would have been three-time champions with 30+ wins apiece: no different (and perhaps even better) than the current crop of drivers. That they were unable to achieve this sort of success because they were up against someone like Schumacher does not mean they were less talented than, say, a Hamilton or an Alonso: there's simply no way to prove such a thing.

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#9100 jj2728

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:12

Me? not hardly.. I'm about as far from a flamer as you will find here.
Oh I'm sure if 'many others' think the same they will be happy to speak for themselves. Also that is one of the most classically weak debating tools in existence.. 'I'm speaking for a mass of people who would be here if you nasty folks didn't intimidate them all'. Surely you can do better than that?
Ah how wrong I was, you can do even worse. You are going for the whole set of logical fallacies or what?
Ah and even the 'Its my opinion, how dare you criticise my opinion, you are trying to step on my free speech' routine. Fine comedy show you are running here.
Your opinion is, in my opinion, nonsense. Your descent into personal insults about a driver is peurile and is calculated to cause people to react with annoyance. Do not try and put on some kind of innocent act when they do so.


Oh boy. So I guess I am running an insulting, peurile comedy show whose sole intention is to cause people to react with annoyance and anger. Ok, so be it. I don't like Schumaacher. I never did. Sure, he has all the stats in the world, but he should have remained retired with those stats.