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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#9101 Serkan_Evcimen

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:59

Question. Did Schumacher ever beat Prost, senna, mansell to a world title?? Answer. NO!!


If you look at things that way, Button and Raikkonen beat Hamilton and Alonso to a world title.
If you want to condescend Schumacher's WDCs by implying that his rivals were not strong, remember that Hamilton beat "Massa" for his only WDC.

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#9102 Group B

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:22

:up:

#9103 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:25

You were on about Fangio and co in your post, so by those romantic standards (real or imagined) every driver on the current grid would indeed lack class, as they're all selfish sharks that wouldn't give a damn about their fellow racer.


You're the one making those insinuations, not me.

#9104 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:36

And how can you tell? Any facts, evidence, anything concrete at all?

Or is that just your empty opinion, with nothing to back up your claims or prove anything...

On the other hand, as I said, if you took Schumacher out of the equation all his rivals would have shared the scraps between them and would have been considered equals, making the field 'ultra competitive', as it is today.

The fact is that Schumacher was so much better than the rest that some of the detractors have had to come up with incredible explanations for his success, like for instance the fantastic notion that somehow no driver of high calibre had managed to reach the pinnacle of motorsport to compete against him for the fifteen year period that he raced in his first career. I mean you can't hold it against him that he made them look like amateurs...



Well, let's see, concrete facts, 4 world champions.
Empty opinion, of course it's your right to say my opinion is empty.
Scraps between them? I don't know what to say to that.
So much better than the rest making them look like amateurs? Ok, name the amateurs or is this YOUR empty opinion....but going by your avatar and signature I'd say it's more coming to the defense of someone whom you've put on a godlike pedestal and cannot believe that I or others would take issue with the fact and he is NOT a god, nor does he IMHO have any class. And he is past his prime.

#9105 Zoe

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:52

oh barf. Please tell us that a driver makes all the difference in F1, and that the unique tire development and secret veto for Ferrari had nothing to do with it.

[...]

He had a great team, a unique tire situation, and a secret rule -take all those way and you get Schumi of last year and this year.


If all that's so secret, how come that all the nutcase conspiracy theorists know everything about? Must be the tin foil hats that pass along all that secret knowledge.

Zoe

#9106 arknor

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 20:07

Question. Did Schumacher ever beat Prost, senna, mansell to a world title?? Answer. NO!!

looks like he was going to beat senna in 94, cant be bothered to argue it on here though, waste of time

#9107 BRK

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 21:23

You're the one making those insinuations, not me.


Yes,the implication being that Schumacher isn't the only one that would lack this 'class' you speak of.

Well, let's see, concrete facts, 4 world champions.
Empty opinion, of course it's your right to say my opinion is empty.
Scraps between them? I don't know what to say to that.
So much better than the rest making them look like amateurs? Ok, name the amateurs or is this YOUR empty opinion....but going by your avatar and signature I'd say it's more coming to the defense of someone whom you've put on a godlike pedestal and cannot believe that I or others would take issue with the fact and he is NOT a god, nor does he IMHO have any class. And he is past his prime.


They weren't amateurs, that's the point: compared to Schumacher they were probably nothing, but not by anyone else's standards. That's exactly why it's funny that people use this as an easy way out to discredit his achievements.

Facts: without Schumacher there would have been seven different title winners between 1994 and 2006, including two triple and two double world champions. 2006 would have been hailed as one of the greatest seasons in history as 5 world champions would have lined up on the grid with a total of six titles between them. As well as two of the youngest winners, Raikkonen and Alonso: same as Hamilton and Vettel after 2006. In other words, without Schumacher F1 would have been as (or even more) competitive during this period as it has been after 2006 and the drivers would have been considered just as great.

but going by your avatar and signature I'd say it's more coming to the defense of someone whom you've put on a godlike pedestal and cannot believe that I or others would take issue with the fact and he is NOT a god, nor does he IMHO have any class. And he is past his prime.


Nice way of finishing off with a barrage of pointless bashing and wild assumptions, probably because you can't justify any of it. You just sound like someone that's had a bad experience with fanboys in the past and can't get over it: if it's any help, I'd like to state that I don't think he's god. :lol:

Edited by BRK, 28 March 2011 - 21:25.


#9108 jj2728

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 22:37

Nice way of finishing off with a barrage of pointless bashing and wild assumptions, probably because you can't justify any of it. You just sound like someone that's had a bad experience with fanboys in the past and can't get over it: if it's any help, I'd like to state that I don't think he's god. :lol:


No, no pointless bashing nor wild assumptions. Bad experiences with fanboys? Nope, wrong again. Sounds as if you are making the wild assumptions there. I have never discredited his achievements, yet when I state that it is MHO that he lacks class and is NOT the godlike creature that so many wish that he were, well the arrows start flying. And I cannot help but wonder how you can state as fact that without Schumacher there would have been what, 7 different title winners between 1994 and 2006? Please, enlighten us with the mathematical probablitlities that allowed you to come up with that FACT. You are stating nothing more than a hypothosis based on a hypothetical situation. And THAT is a fact.

Edited by jj2728, 29 March 2011 - 00:26.


#9109 SEP

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 22:52

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally



Schumacher would not have win a single title IF he had LH or Alonso driving equal cars as oponents, that is very clear and anyone except blind MS´s fans can see it. But you can´t deny MS would have won multiple WDC´s if he had a massive car advantadge for years EVEN having way better drivers as oponents.

#9110 baddog

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:34

I have never discredited his achievements, yet when I state that it is MHO that he lacks class and is NOT the godlike creature that so many wish that he were, well the arrows start flying.


No really? Blatant flamebait attracted flames? Thats not very surprising is it?

If you go into a thread about any driver and say they have no class, are past it and not as good (and possibly never as good) as the current crop, then you are going to get the arrows, and everyone will agree you asked for them.

I mean yes your points aren't as vapid and inflammatory as some (note the post about this one) but they are still asking for it.. personal insults towards drivers always are.

Edited by baddog, 29 March 2011 - 02:36.


#9111 SEP

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:43

Yes. Personally. That is your opinion, and this is mine. With the team around him as it was? Of course. Hamilton would not have too much chance. I fancy Alonoso's second WDC to be a lucky one too.

ps: I rate Vettel and Rosberg higher than either of them.



I think we all know by now what will be MS´s fans excuse for beeing spanked again.


#9112 jj2728

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:24

No really? Blatant flamebait attracted flames? Thats not very surprising is it?

If you go into a thread about any driver and say they have no class, are past it and not as good (and possibly never as good) as the current crop, then you are going to get the arrows, and everyone will agree you asked for them.

I mean yes your points aren't as vapid and inflammatory as some (note the post about this one) but they are still asking for it.. personal insults towards drivers always are.


Geez, I guess one of the arrow slingers has spoken. And since what I say is probably what many others think but are disinclined to do so because of the vitriol spewed forth, then maybe I have struck a nerve or 2 with the fan club. I have been, and will continue to voice an opinion. Get that? Do you understand what an opinion is? It is my opinion that he lacks class, that he has a younger teammate that is getting the better of him, and that he should have stayed retired. Sling away...sling away.

#9113 baddog

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:50

Geez, I guess one of the arrow slingers has spoken.


Me? not hardly.. I'm about as far from a flamer as you will find here.

And since what I say is probably what many others think but are disinclined to do so because of the vitriol spewed forth


Oh I'm sure if 'many others' think the same they will be happy to speak for themselves. Also that is one of the most classically weak debating tools in existence.. 'I'm speaking for a mass of people who would be here if you nasty folks didn't intimidate them all'. Surely you can do better than that?

, then maybe I have struck a nerve or 2 with the fan club.


Ah how wrong I was, you can do even worse. You are going for the whole set of logical fallacies or what?

I have been, and will continue to voice an opinion. Get that? Do you understand what an opinion is? It is my opinion that he lacks class, that he has a younger teammate that is getting the better of him, and that he should have stayed retired. Sling away...sling away.


Ah and even the 'Its my opinion, how dare you criticise my opinion, you are trying to step on my free speech' routine. Fine comedy show you are running here.

Your opinion is, in my opinion, nonsense. Your descent into personal insults about a driver is peurile and is calculated to cause people to react with annoyance. Do not try and put on some kind of innocent act when they do so.


#9114 Tardis40

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:09

Geez, I guess one of the arrow slingers has spoken. And since what I say is probably what many others think but are disinclined to do so because of the vitriol spewed forth, then maybe I have struck a nerve or 2 with the fan club. I have been, and will continue to voice an opinion. Get that? Do you understand what an opinion is? It is my opinion that he lacks class, that he has a younger teammate that is getting the better of him, and that he should have stayed retired. Sling away...sling away.


This is one fan club that has nothing to worry about. Michael's lifetime achievements are of a magnitude that only a handful of sportsmen ever can claim to be on the same tier. Metaphorically speaking, appreciating Michael is like enjoying the finest bottle of wine that money can buy. If your tastes run more to ale, then he's probably not for you.

You're entitled to an opinion just like everyone else, but if you're going to reiterate it so vociferously why not explain exactly what you mean by "no class".

I'm delighted to see him race again, although it has been a somewhat frustrating comeback so far. He hasn't had the opportunity to show what he can do, but that's okay. The faithful will always be there cheering him on whatever happens.




#9115 Jomyboy

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:31

I dont think anyone can take a gap and be competitive in the car any more thanks to limitations in testing. If you look at Heidfeld, you'd think Michael was supreme. I mean he was at least close to Rosberg throughout the year and sometimes the better of him. Plus at 42, I don't think age is at his side as well. In the history of Formula1, no driver has ever managed to change the rules because he was winning too much. Hamilton and Alonso are good drivers but I dont think they are extra special. Vettel has the makings of one, but lets see for far he can go with his form.

#9116 BRK

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 06:53

No, no pointless bashing nor wild assumptions. Bad experiences with fanboys? Nope, wrong again. Sounds as if you are making the wild assumptions there. I have never discredited his achievements, yet when I state that it is MHO that he lacks class and is NOT the godlike creature that so many wish that he were, well the arrows start flying. And I cannot help but wonder how you can state as fact that without Schumacher there would have been what, 7 different title winners between 1994 and 2006? Please, enlighten us with the mathematical probablitlities that allowed you to come up with that FACT. You are stating nothing more than a hypothosis based on a hypothetical situation. And THAT is a fact.


So on what basis are you trying to pass off as FACT that current drivers are better than Schumacher was in his prime? You're right that mine was hypothesis and I should've worded that differently, but since the point I was making seemed to fly straight over your head, here's a different approach to PROVE Schumacher was the better driver, with whatever facts we have at our disposal: http://forums.autosp...p;#entry4904631

And once again the same theme: nerdrage against perceived fanboys on the internet; mindless bashing and trolling.



#9117 Gareth

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 07:47

2. You are comparing a 42 year old Schumacher that had not raced in three years to the Schumacher of the nineties, when he was in his prime.

It surprises me how many people seek to draw conclusions from this stint in F1 for Schumi with regards to his last. And do so negatively.

To me, whilst he is clearly not of the same standard he was, it is to his credit that after 3 years out of the sport and at age 42 he can come back in and look like he deserves his spot on merit. Yes, Rosberg is beating him but not by so much that he doesn't look like he deserves to be there.

When Alonso or Hamilton (or whoever else is being put up as the latest "Schumi wouldn't have won so much with [X] in F1 at the same time" figure) return to the sport in their 40's after a 3 year break and win a world title then I'll maybe start to accept the argument that 2010/11 Schumacher shows that 94-04 Schumacher was a sham. Until then, I remain unconvinced.

#9118 BRK

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:59

It surprises me how many people seek to draw conclusions from this stint in F1 for Schumi with regards to his last. And do so negatively.

To me, whilst he is clearly not of the same standard he was, it is to his credit that after 3 years out of the sport and at age 42 he can come back in and look like he deserves his spot on merit. Yes, Rosberg is beating him but not by so much that he doesn't look like he deserves to be there.

When Alonso or Hamilton (or whoever else is being put up as the latest "Schumi wouldn't have won so much with [X] in F1 at the same time" figure) return to the sport in their 40's after a 3 year break and win a world title then I'll maybe start to accept the argument that 2010/11 Schumacher shows that 94-04 Schumacher was a sham. Until then, I remain unconvinced.


:up:

Much of their 'argument' is based on the fanciful and completely unjustifiable assumption that his rivals were average or below-average drivers, that somehow for a decade and half the sport passed through a vacuum when no driver of high calibre made it to the very top. This isn't just an inane belief, it's also an insult to the drivers that won races and titles during the Schumacher-era. As I pointed out earlier, if there had been no Schumacher, there's every possibility that Damon Hill and Mika Hakkinen would have been three-time champions with 30+ wins apiece: no different (and perhaps even better) than the current crop of drivers. That they were unable to achieve this sort of success because they were up against someone like Schumacher does not mean they were less talented than, say, a Hamilton or an Alonso: there's simply no way to prove such a thing.

#9119 jj2728

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:12

Me? not hardly.. I'm about as far from a flamer as you will find here.
Oh I'm sure if 'many others' think the same they will be happy to speak for themselves. Also that is one of the most classically weak debating tools in existence.. 'I'm speaking for a mass of people who would be here if you nasty folks didn't intimidate them all'. Surely you can do better than that?
Ah how wrong I was, you can do even worse. You are going for the whole set of logical fallacies or what?
Ah and even the 'Its my opinion, how dare you criticise my opinion, you are trying to step on my free speech' routine. Fine comedy show you are running here.
Your opinion is, in my opinion, nonsense. Your descent into personal insults about a driver is peurile and is calculated to cause people to react with annoyance. Do not try and put on some kind of innocent act when they do so.


Oh boy. So I guess I am running an insulting, peurile comedy show whose sole intention is to cause people to react with annoyance and anger. Ok, so be it. I don't like Schumaacher. I never did. Sure, he has all the stats in the world, but he should have remained retired with those stats.

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#9120 jj2728

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:19

So on what basis are you trying to pass off as FACT that current drivers are better than Schumacher was in his prime? You're right that mine was hypothesis and I should've worded that differently, but since the point I was making seemed to fly straight over your head, here's a different approach to PROVE Schumacher was the better driver, with whatever facts we have at our disposal: http://forums.autosp...p;#entry4904631

And once again the same theme: nerdrage against perceived fanboys on the internet; mindless bashing and trolling.


Nerdrage, some of you must burn the midnight oil trying to come up with your clever comebacks.. Mindless bashing and trolling uh huh. Uhm, have I missed something, where exactly did I say that the current crop of drivers is better than Schmacher was in his prime? I never said that. I've said that Schumacher is past his prime.

Edited by jj2728, 29 March 2011 - 15:21.


#9121 jonnoj

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:22

2. You are comparing a 42 year old Schumacher that had not raced in three years to the Schumacher of the nineties, when he was in his prime.



Fangio



#9122 Tarzaan

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 14:39

Fangio



That time all drivers was much older then the nowdays grid...

#9123 destiny

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 15:13

It surprises me how many people seek to draw conclusions from this stint in F1 for Schumi with regards to his last. And do so negatively.

To me, whilst he is clearly not of the same standard he was, it is to his credit that after 3 years out of the sport and at age 42 he can come back in and look like he deserves his spot on merit. Yes, Rosberg is beating him but not by so much that he doesn't look like he deserves to be there.

When Alonso or Hamilton (or whoever else is being put up as the latest "Schumi wouldn't have won so much with [X] in F1 at the same time" figure) return to the sport in their 40's after a 3 year break and win a world title then I'll maybe start to accept the argument that 2010/11 Schumacher shows that 94-04 Schumacher was a sham. Until then, I remain unconvinced.

:up:

#9124 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 15:20

Fangio

and a guy vettels age was probably only allowed to sell tickets at the gate in those days
what's the point?

#9125 Massa_f1

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 17:14

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally



Yes i do. He bulit a team around him good enough to be competitve year after year. He won 7 titles haters will just have to deal with it.

Edited by Massa_f1, 29 March 2011 - 17:16.


#9126 Muz Bee

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 20:35

It surprises me how many people seek to draw conclusions from this stint in F1 for Schumi with regards to his last. And do so negatively.

To me, whilst he is clearly not of the same standard he was, it is to his credit that after 3 years out of the sport and at age 42 he can come back in and look like he deserves his spot on merit. Yes, Rosberg is beating him but not by so much that he doesn't look like he deserves to be there.

When Alonso or Hamilton (or whoever else is being put up as the latest "Schumi wouldn't have won so much with [X] in F1 at the same time" figure) return to the sport in their 40's after a 3 year break and win a world title then I'll maybe start to accept the argument that 2010/11 Schumacher shows that 94-04 Schumacher was a sham. Until then, I remain unconvinced.


Yes, I would agree it's to his credit he is still as good as he is at his age and with time out of the sport.

However time takes no prisoners and Michael won't get faster, only slower. He is already >0.3 slower than Nico for straight pace. He has shown in 2010 some moments of poor judgement seemingly out of desperation. Should he be kept on? For his race pace? For his team input? I would think other than the latter, it should be a no brainer - give an exciting young talent a chance. On the team input issue it doesn't really seem to be paying dividends in car development direction, so far any way.

I would take a blunt approach and say "no way is he fast enough, 0.3+ regularly in qual in this modern era is an age, move him out at the end of 2011 if not earlier".

#9127 Raelene

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 21:10

wow, some people have made a lot of noise after 1 qualy session and a race where he was stuffed after the first couple of corners... give him ONE full race at least this year before making harsh judgements. How anyone can truly judge one way or the okther after Australia is beyond me

Edited by Raelene, 29 March 2011 - 21:12.


#9128 ivand911

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 21:13

Yes, I would agree it's to his credit he is still as good as he is at his age and with time out of the sport.

However time takes no prisoners and Michael won't get faster, only slower. He is already >0.3 slower than Nico for straight pace. He has shown in 2010 some moments of poor judgement seemingly out of desperation. Should he be kept on? For his race pace? For his team input? I would think other than the latter, it should be a no brainer - give an exciting young talent a chance. On the team input issue it doesn't really seem to be paying dividends in car development direction, so far any way.

I would take a blunt approach and say "no way is he fast enough, 0.3+ regularly in qual in this modern era is an age, move him out at the end of 2011 if not earlier".

Nice opinion, team didn't share it. Next.
Lets first team provide him with strong car, 2nd or third strong and then to decide who is good or not. Two years team can't do that. Who is to blame here? I doubt Nico was happy with his own Australia showing? Michael with some inconsistent car was much better against Nico than Vettel/Webber.

Edited by ivand911, 29 March 2011 - 21:24.


#9129 zack1994

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 21:19

Fangio

Back in those days the drivers didn't have to be anywhere near as fit as they have to be now a perfetic argument.

#9130 zack1994

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 21:27

Do you guys honestly think that if Schumacher had the likes of Hamilton and alonso in his era he would have won that many titles if any? I don't think he'd stand a chance personally

You don't think he would have stand a chance, well he stood a chance against alonso in 06 and came very close to beating him even then he was starting to lose it so there goes your theory, also what people like you should remember is that if he stayed on in 07 and 08 he would have no doubt have beat Alonso and Hamilton seeing as we know he was much better than Massa and Raikkonen. So maybe you should think about that statement of yours.

#9131 zack1994

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 21:28

Yes, I would agree it's to his credit he is still as good as he is at his age and with time out of the sport.

However time takes no prisoners and Michael won't get faster, only slower. He is already >0.3 slower than Nico for straight pace. He has shown in 2010 some moments of poor judgement seemingly out of desperation. Should he be kept on? For his race pace? For his team input? I would think other than the latter, it should be a no brainer - give an exciting young talent a chance. On the team input issue it doesn't really seem to be paying dividends in car development direction, so far any way.

I would take a blunt approach and say "no way is he fast enough, 0.3+ regularly in qual in this modern era is an age, move him out at the end of 2011 if not earlier".

Its been one qualifying session and your speaking as if the gaps will always be 3 tenths, your unreal theres 18 qualifying sessions left.

#9132 BRK

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 22:53

Nerdrage, some of you must burn the midnight oil trying to come up with your clever comebacks.. Mindless bashing and trolling uh huh. Uhm, have I missed something, where exactly did I say that the current crop of drivers is better than Schmacher was in his prime? I never said that. I've said that Schumacher is past his prime.


Very well. So I suppose you would indeed agree Schumacher in his prime was a better driver than those on the current grid: by extension it would mean that had been part of the same crop he would have stood out and the field would not have been as competitive as it appears to be today. You happened to disagree with this remark earlier on, which is why I brought it up in the first place. Fine by me as it looks like you've revised your opinion..

As for the comebacks bit: don't flatter yourself. I've seen dozens of your kind on here already, saying the same old crap over and over again, from even before I registered on Atlas, the type that throws in baits like saying Schumacher lacks class or that anyone that defends him is a fanboy. Just not worth the time, effort or attention.

#9133 Buttoneer

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 22:59

Can posters cut out the flamebaiting and please stop discussing each other. Topic is Michael Schumacher. Please make proper use of your ignore functions and the report button.

#9134 jj2728

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 23:28

Very well. So I suppose you would indeed agree Schumacher in his prime was a better driver than those on the current grid: by extension it would mean that had been part of the same crop he would have stood out and the field would not have been as competitive as it appears to be today. You happened to disagree with this remark earlier on, which is why I brought it up in the first place. Fine by me as it looks like you've revised your opinion..

As for the comebacks bit: don't flatter yourself. I've seen dozens of your kind on here already, saying the same old crap over and over again, from even before I registered on Atlas, the type that throws in baits like saying Schumacher lacks class or that anyone that defends him is a fanboy. Just not worth the time, effort or attention.


:rolleyes:

Edited by jj2728, 29 March 2011 - 23:38.


#9135 merschu

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 17:14

New Michael Schumacher website by Jetset.
http://www.michael-s...ites/index.html


Edit: His last website was made by Motorsport Magazin.

Edited by merschu, 03 April 2011 - 17:15.


#9136 RSNS

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 18:30

..........

The fact is that Schumacher was so much better than the rest that some of the detractors have had to come up with incredible explanations for his success, like for instance the fantastic notion that somehow no driver of high calibre had managed to reach the pinnacle of motorsport to compete against him for the fifteen year period that he raced in his first career. I mean you can't hold it against him that he made them look like amateurs...


I think BRK is right and I am not a Schumacher fan. I never really liked Schumacher, but I do not shut my eyes to reality. His driving, sharpness, motivation and pure speed were unbelievable.

#9137 RSNS

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 18:33

That time all drivers was much older then the nowdays grid...


Well, not quite: Fangio was not called 'the old man' for nothing. And his younger rivals were young enough to be his children.

#9138 Ruf

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 18:45

Well, not quite: Fangio was not called 'the old man' for nothing. And his younger rivals were young enough to be his children.

Uhm.. a quick glance at the 1950 season:

P./driver/year of birth
1 Nino Farina 1906
2 Juan Manuel Fangio 1911
3 Luigi Fagioli 1898
4 Louis Rosier 1905
5 Alberto Ascari 1918
6 Johnnie Parsons 1918
7 Bill Holland 1907
8 Prince Bira 1914
Actually Fangio was one of the young wolves, by the looks of it :p

#9139 iakhtar

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 20:03

Comparisons to the previous season are dodgy enough, comparing different eras just doesn't work.

I also don't buy the whole weak competition theory, it just doesn't make any sense. Any team manager back then would have killed to get MS sign a contract with them, everyone knew he was a special talent.

Using this comeback to revise history is what a moron would do.

Edited by iakhtar, 03 April 2011 - 20:04.


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#9140 baddog

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 21:20

Uhm.. a quick glance at the 1950 season:

P./driver/year of birth
1 Nino Farina 1906
2 Juan Manuel Fangio 1911
3 Luigi Fagioli 1898
4 Louis Rosier 1905
5 Alberto Ascari 1918
6 Johnnie Parsons 1918

7 Bill Holland 1907
8 Prince Bira 1914
Actually Fangio was one of the young wolves, by the looks of it :p


I don't know, letting these kids barely out of school race, its making a mockery of the whole thing ;)

#9141 RSNS

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 21:46

Uhm.. a quick glance at the 1950 season:

P./driver/year of birth
1 Nino Farina 1906
2 Juan Manuel Fangio 1911
3 Luigi Fagioli 1898
4 Louis Rosier 1905
5 Alberto Ascari 1918
6 Johnnie Parsons 1918
7 Bill Holland 1907
8 Prince Bira 1914
Actually Fangio was one of the young wolves, by the looks of it :p


Yes, at the beginning it was like that. But I was thinking about "the English lads" of 56 and 57. (All this is off topic, but it is harmless, I hope). :)

#9142 Sakae

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 21:52

New Michael Schumacher website by Jetset.
http://www.michael-s...ites/index.html


Edit: His last website was made by Motorsport Magazin.

Not bad; the last one if I recall had maybe too much red in it. I follow Michael's career since his entry to F1, more so after Alain had retired, but very seldom visit his or Seb's websites for fear that questions I really want to ask him might be left to his memoirs, thus I wait.

Edited by Sakae, 03 April 2011 - 21:53.


#9143 merschu

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 08:26

A Very interesting article from the Independent. Taken from the Official Ferrari Opus.


Michael emailed each Ferrari worker before he came Mercedes

For 16 years he shaped Formula 1, before ending his driving career in 2006. Nico Rosberg, his team-mate at the new Team Mercedes GP, was just four years old when the record world champion began his career. For 16 years, Schumacher opened himself up to the whole world as he encased himself in the cockpit. He expressed his feelings through racing. The Italian tifosi, who had been so sceptical at the start, had come to understand that over the years. When you call to mind his joy after victories or duels, his passionate drives or his anger after his own mistakes, you realise that his robot image has been more self-protection than truth all along. The team concept was never just PR talk for him. He simply transferred the footballer saying 'the star is the team' over to motorsport. His team felt that and loved him for it.

Michael Schumacher is a man who loves harmony. A combatant on the track, he needs to feel at ease outside the cockpit. The same is true in his private life as it is in his professional one: disagreements disturb his total commitment to his work. He is someone who likes to solve conflicts quickly and satisfactorily for all sides. If they are unsolved, they worry him too much. Therefore it was extremely important for him to have a good relationship with all the technicians, engineers and mechanics in the team. At Ferrari he felt secure, as strange as that may sound. This is one of the reasons his departure was so difficult. When he suddenly and unexpectedly left the team at the end of 2009, he said goodbye to each Ferrari worker with an email: 'Dear Friend,' it read 'The love of Ferrari unites us all, and this love has carried us for years. We have experienced wonderful emotions and celebrated historical successes together over the years. I have found friends, just as you have found a friend in me. Together we have suffered and rejoiced, and we could always rely on each other. That I now, after 14 years, take on a new challenge will change nothing. I would like to thank you emphatically for the warmth, affection, commitment and professional work that I have received from all of you. I have often said, and I would like to repeat it, that every one of you has contributed to this great time. Without each one of you, in the team and in the factory, we would all never have achieved it. We can all be proud of it. I embrace you, Yours Michael.'


All the things Michael still carries because he thinks it brings him luck

When Michael Schumacher first tested for the legendary marque at Maranello at the end of 1995, he was in his mid-twenties and had just married Corinna. During his time at Ferrari he experienced highs and lows in his private life, and they were often linked to a particular race. Thus at an interview on the starting grid of the Italian Grand Prix in 1997, he blurted out that he was to become a father for the first time, which was eagerly taken up by a media always on the lookout for a new story about the Formula 1 star. His strange clownish leap at a race in Hockenheim in another year appeared to be a greeting to the children at home - he had promised Gina and Mick that if he won he would try a leap that they had practised at home on the trampoline.

Small anecdotes about the family, who Schumacher always kept out of the public eye, gave rise to often colourful stories in the tabloids. Whether it was a pinky-red hairbrush that his daughter had given him for luck, or a talisman from Corinna that he could suddenly no longer find at a race in Malaysia (his then physiotherapist Balbir Singh had to drive crazily back to the hotel to fetch the chain because Michael did not want to start without it).



About Ayrton Senna and his first retirement

In addition to his family there was the great Ayrton Senna, who had triggered unforgettable moments not only in his own career, but also in Michael Schumacher's - and not only in a sporting respect. Michael saw the Brazilian drive a kart once as a child. At a race in the Netherlands the little Schumacher saw this boy from Brazil who accomplished the greatest things with the kart. "I noticed him immediately because he controlled the kart so playfully and drove such a great line. From that moment I followed his career. I admired Ayrton for the way he drove," he would say later.

When Michael came to Formula 1 years later, Senna was the undisputed top dog and star of the show. But Schumacher had meanwhile acquired considerable self-confidence in the sport thanks to many successes, so it was not long before Senna noticed that a rival he should not underestimate had appeared in the paddock. The stormy clash between them at a test in Hockenheim - when their lines crossed too closely on the route, resulting in Senna reprimanding the youngster - remains unforgotten. Senna's tragically premature death due to his accident at Imola in 1994 took from Formula 1 not only its greatest star, but also the prospect of a fascinating duel between two full-blooded racers. But the remembrance of Senna also gives the Ferrari community one of the most memorable moments in Schumacher's time at Ferrari. Monza 2000.

The German twice-world-champion and his team had been trying for almost five years to bring the world title back to Maranello. In 1997 and 1998 they had lost in the final races; in 1999 an accident had stopped Michael; 2000 had to be the year. The season had begun well, but the summer brought failures and disillusionment. The Italian Grand Prix in Monza was suddenly a fateful race. There had to be a victory or the title would once more disappear over the horizon. Michael won the race, but at the subsequent press conference he lost control. In response to the statement that with this victory he had equalled the number of victories by Senna, he broke into convulsive sobbing, much to everyone's surprise, and which to his great consternation he could not subdue. That moment of distress would in hindsight be the ice-breaker between the Ferrari idol and his fans. "On that day everything was somehow too much for me," explained Michael. "I had found out just before the race that an old acquaintance had suffered a heart attack; then there was the story with the injured track marshal. Additionally the pressure that we absolutely had to win. But when I was told that I had caught up with Ayrton's number of victories that was the final straw that broke the camel's back. For me he was always the best. I had never put myself on the same level as him, but suddenly there was the evidence. I don't know why - suddenly this sobbing burst out of me." The media reacted just as positively as supporters worldwide. "Schumi, we have seen your heart," was the headline in one big German newspaper. And in thousands of emails he met with much sympathy. If proof were still needed that this eager combatant also had a weak side, here it was. Then there was a similar outburst in 2006 at the race in Bahrain.

Michael raced there as undisputed champion, the record holder of his sport, already an icon. He had broken almost every record; only in one area did Ayrton Senna still have the edge: the number of pole positions. At qualifying in Bahrain Michael obtained his 65th pole, equalling Senna's record. Back in the motor home that evening he was suddenly certain that this would be his last season. "Sometimes strange things happen," he said later. "I was never actively chasing these records; I never tried to top these lists. But then there was this sign and it felt like a release. I don't know why but the story of Ayrton is a story that always pursued me. Every time I was confronted with it I became very emotional. Of course you don't want to admit it at the time. You try to hide your emotions, so as not to show weaknesses to others. I believe it's the same for every sportsman.


Suddenly I knew how tiring this life was and how much I yearned not to always be travelling around. That was the moment when I decided that it would be my last season. In that moment I felt liberated - and I would never in my dreams have imagined that I would retract this decision three years later.

"In the end, several things came together that made me wonder why I was still doing it. My private situation could not have been better; there were no financial reasons. I roamed about here and there at tests or meetings in which I was no longer really interested. I'm talking about the trappings, the preparation and the continuous debate on what could still be done. Always giving 100 per cent simply sapped your strength. Just after Bahrain, Malaysia and Australia, when in principle my decision had already been made, I caught myself wondering how I had done it all. There were so many hours, so many days, when I had to force myself to test. I don't know whether it's normal wear and tear, but these tests the whole year round kind of wore me down. I was simply tired."



On Conspiracy theories surrounding Michael's departure from Formula 1

Conspiracy theories surrounded Schumacher's departure from Formula 1. The most popular was that the Ferrari President Luca di Montezemolo had thrust him from the team, because he absolutely had to have Kimi Räikkönen and Schumacher did not want the Finn near him. The story went that when Ferrari signed Räikkönen, the German, who according to Montezemolo was too powerful, was forced to withdraw. Another version had it that, after Schumacher had given his okay to sign Räikkönen in 2005, Ferrari CEO Jean Todt had to deceive his supposed friend because Schumacher's designated successor Felipe Massa was managed by Todt's son Nicolas and blood runs thicker than water. As is often the case, the truth was far simpler. After almost 16 years of high-performance sport and almost 13 years in a non-stop battle to be world champion, Schumacher's tank was simply empty. Another year seemed more of a burden than a delight.

When Michael finally announced his decision at the Italian Grand Prix in Monza, a small slip-up renewed speculation - the press office wanted to be professional and fast and issued the press release with the news of the retirement immediately after the race. Michael had still not made his decision public at this point because the press conference had not begun. From this many people concluded that he had been bounced into retirement. But his decision was then certain and he was naturally informed about the press release. That it would be at Monza was also not a problem for him. "The timing of the announcement was completely fine. Personally I could have announced it earlier, but Ferrari explained that such things traditionally took place at Monza and I had no problem with that. We decided on Monza together. The good thing then was that I no longer needed to talk rubbish or to seek refuge in excuses. I made my decision in a prevailing mood of positivity. It was going well for me at that time. I was at peace with myself. I always felt it was good that way. And of course I remarked with pleasure that people asked themselves: 'But why? He's still able to compete.' Much better that way than people asking: 'Why is he still driving? He is much too old, he is too slow.' I wouldn't have liked that at all.



Michael's time with Ferrari after first retirement

At first the record world champion was in close contact with the Ferrari Formula 1 team. As a technical advisor he was at the races less and spent more time at the engineers' briefings before or after the grand prix. The technicians of the most successful team had already praised his eye for the essentials, his ability to determine the heart of the problem and to find suggestions for solutions during his time on the track. His experience also helped the young team, which had been completely reconstructed in the key positions after the departure of Schumacher, team principal Jean Todt and technical manager Ross Brawn. But the longer his separation from racing was, the closer Schumacher came to the development of road cars.

His feedback to the engineers in this area was extremely helpful, and Michael himself could satisfy his desire for driving cars. Perhaps the speeds were not so high, perhaps the centrifugal forces were less powerful, but Michael Schumacher also felt that joy in driving at the limit at the road car test drives in Balocco or on the Nurburgring. And just as he had done during his time with Formula 1, he also enjoyed the interaction in the team and the direct implementation of technical feedback.

Not for nothing did the last contract that Schumacher negotiated with Montezemolo (that would not be signed) refer in great part to his work in this area. "I very much enjoyed the work in this field," said Michael. "When I still raced in Formula 1, Ferrari sometimes needed me to test certain models on the racing track because they wanted to know what I would say about their driveability. Later I had much more time for this. The Scuderia, the California and even the Italia were cars with whose development and refinement I was involved - they were all great cars that were fun to drive. I like working in a team, and at Ferrari there is always good cooperation. That was the phase when I could never have imagined ever wanting to race in Formula 1 again; in my eyes that part of my life was completely over. And I believe I was a good recommendation for such cars. I love driving sports cars myself, but sometimes, for example with the family, I also like to cruise and not battle with the car. I looked at the cars from a dual point of view: that of a racing driver and that of a normal customer."

Testing, discussing, analysing, rejecting - Michael Schumacher loved the interaction with the engineers or the mechanics, whether in Formula 1 or with road cars. Teamwork and team spirit were extremely important to him, and because his attitude was so natural, he was always considered a true team player. Michael Schumacher never forgot to praise and draw attention to his team after a victory; he never underestimated how important the motivation of the people around him was. This ability in team building is just one of the characteristics that explain his success, just like his understanding of what makes a team - clear, direct communication and purposeful and solution-oriented discussion.


Politics and polemics were never his thing. He shared this understanding with the three people who for a long time formed the inner circle of the so-called dream team: Jean Todt, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne. His relationships with these key people in his career were just as loyal as his one with the racing team. This clearly shows in his relationship with Brawn: he attained all his world champion titles in conjunction with the calm, English engineer, and with him he began his last racing phase at the newly-created Silver Arrows.




Michael Schumacher and Ferrari - it was, and is, a profound love. And as is often the case in life with great loves, you forgive the disappointments and wish each other all the best. There is a famous song from Schumacher's home town of Cologne that best describes this relationship. It is called "Niemals geht man so ganz" (One never leaves whole). And so Michael's departure turned out to be very positive. "I am very happy that the split went so harmoniously and we are still linked in friendship," he said after the last team change of his career. "I would like to thank Luca di Montezemolo and the whole team for all the time together and for giving me the opportunity to make friends. Feats such as these create friendships. After these 14 years I will carry a large piece of Ferrari forever in my heart, and I will never forget the attachment and enthusiasm of the tifosi.

"They have borne me around the world with their devotion and I would like to thank them from the bottom of my heart. I have experienced many wonderful moments with this team. The greatest part of my racing life is red and I feel a strong connection and loyalty to the guys who accompanied me and always produced a great car. This connection will remain with us forever."

The "guys" felt the same connection, giving him a team photo at his last Ferrari race in Brazil in 2006. That was the second time in his career when Schumacher could not hold back his tears on the race track. On the photo is written: "Sei uno di noi" - "You are one of us."



Link for the article:http://www.independe...ed-2259769.html

Edited by merschu, 05 April 2011 - 08:28.


#9144 ivand911

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:08

I have a dream, that Michael have 2nd or 3rd fastest car. :rolleyes: OK,time to wake up. Back to reality.

#9145 SpeedyS

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:17

A Very interesting article from the Independent. Taken from the Official Ferrari Opus.


Michael emailed each Ferrari worker before he came Mercedes


All the things Michael still carries because he thinks it brings him luck




About Ayrton Senna and his first retirement




On Conspiracy theories surrounding Michael's departure from Formula 1




Michael's time with Ferrari after first retirement










Link for the article:http://www.independe...ed-2259769.html


Thanks, very much enjoyed the read :up:

#9146 Tardis40

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:31

wow, some people have made a lot of noise after 1 qualy session and a race where he was stuffed after the first couple of corners... give him ONE full race at least this year before making harsh judgements. How anyone can truly judge one way or the okther after Australia is beyond me


We don't have to give him anything, except appreciation for all the fantastic hours of entertainment he has given us. Michael will be around this season and next, and perhaps after that if the car looks interesting. I look forward to it.

#9147 KavB

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 12:48

Thanks for the article. It shows how much Michael wanted to come back to F1, even if he had to break away from his "family" with whom he had an inseparable bond.

When Michael eventually retires from F1, would he go back to Ferrari as an ambassador ? Or would he stay a Mercedes man?

#9148 ivand911

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 13:17

Thanks for the article. It shows how much Michael wanted to come back to F1, even if he had to break away from his "family" with whom he had an inseparable bond.

When Michael eventually retires from F1, would he go back to Ferrari as an ambassador ? Or would he stay a Mercedes man?

I think he will stay with Mercedes. I doubt Ferrari will want him back, or he will want back. Ferrari have other man now. I think his role in Ferrari finished?


#9149 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 13:33

I think he will stay with Mercedes. I doubt Ferrari will want him back, or he will want back. Ferrari have other man now. I think his role in Ferrari finished?


LDM and Ferrari have always said that Schumacher will always be part of the Ferrari family. If the Mercedes thing does not work out, I think Ferrari would approach him to get back into a family role

#9150 F1 Tor.

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 13:37

Personally, I couldn't see him going back to Ferrari. That's water under the bridge. He'll always have special feelings for them, and vice versa, but I think he'll venture into a new role somewhere at Mercedes. The language, location, etc. would be pretty ideal for him and I'm sure he could create a very cushy position once he's done, especially as an 8-time champion.  ;)