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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#9601 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 22:08

. Put him in traffic and contact has become inevitable.

sorry, this is BS..if you watched China it's not the case. he was there in all the fights and did not put a wheel wrong.
did you see his move on JA in the closing stages?

sure, contact is inevitable....

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#9602 BullHead

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 22:10

I think and hope he will see the season out. But yes, his comment today certainly spelled out his intentions in the near future. MGP was the wrong way in. Ferrari 2009 would have been better.

#9603 jonnoj

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 22:15

Well one of the main problems with the current era and being corrected by Todt is the complete lack of testing, there should be at least some limited testing which may come in 2012, with this era of rules, and even when Michael attempted his aborted ferrari comeback in 2009, to come in and practice on friday on the gp weekend with the current car after 3 years out, very brave, but hugely difficult task, if anyone could of made something of it, he would of, but given the expectations on him to perform straight away, the task is difficult, you need practice having been out like that, rookies need practice, returning drivers need practice in some form, I know he hired a old f1 car, but it isn't the same.


I can't find the quote, but I have read MS felt that the ban on in-season testing made it easier for him to return to F1. Between races he can go home and continue the family life he's enjoyed during his retirement. Should in-season testing return next year, don't be surprised if he doesn't use that as an excuse for his second retirement.




#9604 SlateGray

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 22:17

Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory of, well time slips away
and leaves you with nothing mister but
boring stories of glory days

#9605 michaelarwas

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 22:40

It's age. He's lost the bleeding edge of mental/physical capacity to know the limits of the car and the limits of himself.

Give him a clear track and no pressure and he can turn a good lap, as he has done a fair few times in practice.

Put him in qualifying and the times aren't there. Put him in traffic and contact has become inevitable.

Watching the BBC coverage, even DC quietly acknowledges that he needed to swallow his pride and leave F1 before the end of his final season. Schumacher should be brave enough to do the same.



Don't make me laugh. Clearly you have not been watching F1 for long. The amount of times he had to fight through the field when at Ferrari after Grid Penalties make your comment null and void. Did you watch Monaco 2006? No, thought not.

Oh and Frans, i've sat reading posts on this forum for a while now and your comments are the most childish of all. You may not like Michael, but for heaven sake show the man some respect. He is one of the reasons that the sport is so successful and without his presence it would have been a duller place. If you actually posted something constructive once in a while i would have less of an issue however all you want to do is mindlessly bash the most successful motor racing driver ever. Yes, i am a Schumi fan, but you won't here me bashing Rosberg every time he is beaten by Michael. I respect both of their abilities and judge them using clear analysis. You have also failed to note how quick Schui's race pace was in comparison to Rosberg. If he hadn't lost his front wing he may well have beaten Rosberg.

Edited by michaelarwas, 08 May 2011 - 22:45.


#9606 FenderJaguar

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:09

The discussion is about Schumacher in 2011, not 2006. It is a very big difference being 36-37 compared to 41-42. Age is not linear. Sports get a lot more difficult around 40.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 08 May 2011 - 23:12.


#9607 michaelarwas

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:15

The discussion is about Schumacher in 2011, not 2006. It is a very big difference being 36-37 compared to 41-42. Age is not linear. Sports get a lot more difficult around 40.



I'm sorry when it comes to race craft, not raw pace, i completely disagree with you. He stills wins every karting event he enters. Age has nothing to do with positioning of car. If he had such poor race craft how would you account for his brilliant starts every race?

#9608 cilurnum

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:19

I'm afraid qualifying put a couple of nails in his coffin and his ludicrous performance in the race all but dropped it into the grave.

Sorry, but in traffic he is absolutely hopeless. He still believes he is leading races and can give his opponents a stark choice to back off. What happens when you're in the midfield is that doesn't happen, contact becomes inevitable and you simply fall back.

I don't believe that Schumacher has got any worse as a driver, but simply he can't hack Formula 1 as it is today. It's always difficult coming back to a different set of circumstances, lack of testing and control tyres. There isn't much difference at all between 36 and 42. Alain Prost managed it and he wasn't in as good physical condition as Schumacher.

#9609 michaelarwas

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:22

I'm afraid qualifying put a couple of nails in his coffin and his ludicrous performance in the race all but dropped it into the grave.

Sorry, but in traffic he is absolutely hopeless. He still believes he is leading races and can give his opponents a stark choice to back off. What happens when you're in the midfield is that doesn't happen, contact becomes inevitable and you simply fall back.

I don't believe that Schumacher has got any worse as a driver, but simply he can't hack Formula 1 as it is today. It's always difficult coming back to a different set of circumstances, lack of testing and control tyres. There isn't much difference at all between 36 and 42. Alain Prost managed it and he wasn't in as good physical condition as Schumacher.



I would agree with you there but lets not over exaggerate and say his race performance was ludicrous, because really, if you look at the live timings it wasn't. He was as quick if not quicker than Rosberg until the last stint. He made a few nice overtakes, especially the one around the outside of Alguesuari. You are, however, correct about the different attitudes required for racing the midfield who have a lot less to lose.

#9610 hotstickyslick

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:24

Dale Earnhardt won championships in his fourties in NASCAR, Fangio won all of his championships in his fourties too... with that said I don't think age should be blamed for every thing. There have been a wealth of differences for him concerning F1 since 2006 and from my point of view he's not adapting like we thought he would. Things like that happen.

#9611 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:25

Sorry, but in traffic he is absolutely hopeless. He still believes he is leading races and can give his opponents a stark choice to back off. What happens when you're in the midfield is that doesn't happen, contact becomes inevitable and you simply fall back.

did you see china?

#9612 michaelarwas

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:26

Dale Earnhardt won championships in his fourties in NASCAR, Fangio won all of his championships in his fourties too... with that said I don't think age should be blamed for every thing. There have been a wealth of differences for him concerning F1 since 2006 and from my point of view he's not adapting like we thought he would. Things like that happen.



To be fair theres quite a big difference between Nascar and modern F1 which exaggerates any menthal or physical weakness.

#9613 engel

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:30

There is an element of Michael still being mentally stuck to how F1 was 10 years ago. To be honest, I can't fault him for that, since he was a big part of what turned F1 to what it was 10 years ago. But he has to adapt, and so far after what? 23 races he has been unable to. Schumacher's approach to F1 was very methodical, lots of planning, lots of evaluating every single parameter, lots of pre race optimizing. That was his strength and he can't use it now. And yeah to an extent, mentally, it's difficult to be a 7 time world champion racing a guy that was considered to be a pay driver 4 months ago.

#9614 hotstickyslick

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:36

To be fair theres quite a big difference between Nascar and modern F1 which exaggerates any menthal or physical weakness.

F1 cars are now running a much slower race pace this year than back in the grooved tyre era so it's not like they're going any where near lap record pace like in the mid-2000s.

I really can't help but feel that if you put him in a 2006 Ferrari 248 with 2006 spec Bridgestones right now he'd be right at home... which kind of adds to my dissapointment towards him right now. I can't help but feel that he was all too pampered at Ferrari which has allowed him to develop certain habits when it comes to his driving and how he expects the car to handle and react to his imputs.

Edited by hotstickyslick, 08 May 2011 - 23:42.


#9615 Raelene

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 23:41

Put him in qualifying and the times aren't there. Put him in traffic and contact has become inevitable.

Watching the BBC coverage, even DC quietly acknowledges that he needed to swallow his pride and leave F1 before the end of his final season. Schumacher should be brave enough to do the same.


I actually disagree there - I guess you missed China

how many times have we seen over the last 2 seasons MS having contact... it's not happened everytime he's been in traffic as you allude to. The start of this race was a shocker, but I don't recall too many "contacts" over the last 2 seasons. Perhaps you can list them for me

Edited by Raelene, 09 May 2011 - 00:23.


#9616 AyePirate

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 00:02

F1 cars are now running a much slower race pace this year than back in the grooved tyre era so it's not like they're going any where near lap record pace like in the mid-2000s.

I really can't help but feel that if you put him in a 2006 Ferrari 248 with 2006 spec Bridgestones right now he'd be right at home... which kind of adds to my dissapointment towards him right now. I can't help but feel that he was all too pampered at Ferrari which has allowed him to develop certain habits when it comes to his driving and how he expects the car to handle and react to his imputs.


Other baseless excuse. Today's fastest lap nearly equaled Montoya's lap record from 2005.
It's not over for Schumi but he is not long for the grid. Old drivers are like soft tires when the performance drops it's like a cliff.

Oh sure if you gave Schumi the best car with bespoke tires he would do better. His lack of performance on a more even playing field casts a shadow on his former dominance.

Edited by AyePirate, 09 May 2011 - 00:04.


#9617 hotstickyslick

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 00:29

Other baseless excuse. Today's fastest lap nearly equaled Montoya's lap record from 2005.

That's a joke right?

#9618 eriknaa

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 00:42

In Spain everything will go better, everybody have bad race from time to time even a 7 time wdc.
Good to see Michael not enjoying fighting for p 12- p 13. And rightly so he should only happy when he is fighting up at the front.
Clearly a though weekend for Michael, after that error in quali. But he did some nice moves aswell in the race particiulary with Algersuari, and that fight with Massa was cool to watch :)
Michael will bounce back strong again soon, just wait and see :D,

#9619 SeanValen

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 00:48

I can't find the quote, but I have read MS felt that the ban on in-season testing made it easier for him to return to F1. Between races he can go home and continue the family life he's enjoyed during his retirement. Should in-season testing return next year, don't be surprised if he doesn't use that as an excuse for his second retirement.



I know the quote your talking about, Michael was talking about full on unlimted testing, he doesn't want that, but he did menstion last year some testing comprimise should be reached, a complete ban he is against, and no one wants unlimited testing again. Todt's limited testing proposal makes sense for everyone. I mean to have complete in season testing with simulators, it's boring and parts that don't work being tested at gp weekends is a risk where fans might not even see a full operational car against competitors. Mclaren's late minute exhaust change was a risk but could of been extremely costly, ferrari and mercedes could of done with some limited testing to catch redbull, infact everyone needs some more testing to catch red bull, because redbull have breached the rules and have too many staff members, it's not a level playing field! Jean Todt needs to act ASAP.

Edited by SeanValen, 09 May 2011 - 00:50.


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#9620 aditya-now

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 00:55

I know the quote your talking about, Michael was talking about full on unlimted testing, he doesn't want that, but he did menstion last year some testing comprimise should be reached, a complete ban he is against, and no one wants unlimited testing again. Todt's limited testing proposal makes sense for everyone. I mean to have complete in season testing with simulators, it's boring and parts that don't work being tested at gp weekends is a risk where fans might not even see a full operational car against competitors. Mclaren's late minute exhaust change was a risk but could of been extremely costly, ferrari and mercedes could of done with some limited testing to catch redbull, infact everyone needs some more testing to catch red bull, because redbull have breached the rules and have too many staff members, it's not a level playing field! Jean Todt needs to act ASAP.


Ah, Jean Todt is responsible for MichaelĀ“s showings! Strange, it coincides with the fact that Todt was also responsible for the fact that Michael was unbeatable at Ferrari. :drunk:

In other news I hear that your attention has shifted from MS to Koba. Time to change the fav driver?

#9621 Sakae

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 01:44

Michael is noting on his personal website that he was sliding all over in quali. I wonder what he will say about the race. He still has a speed, and he had proved that in FP. He has racecraft - one doesn't forget that. Something else is wrong; he will figure it out.

Edited by Sakae, 09 May 2011 - 01:45.


#9622 Birelman

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 01:57

F1 cars are now running a much slower race pace this year than back in the grooved tyre era so it's not like they're going any where near lap record pace like in the mid-2000s.

I really can't help but feel that if you put him in a 2006 Ferrari 248 with 2006 spec Bridgestones right now he'd be right at home... which kind of adds to my dissapointment towards him right now. I can't help but feel that he was all too pampered at Ferrari which has allowed him to develop certain habits when it comes to his driving and how he expects the car to handle and react to his imputs.

No no no, with regards to the physical conditioning required between NASCAR and Formula 1 it's completely different. Even a go-kart requires tons more physical conditioning than NASCAR, look how fat and out of shape those NASCAR drivers are. Schumacher though, is in great shape, but that doesn't automatically mean he can hack modern Formula 1. It's very different to have raced Formula 1 in Fangio's days than now.

#9623 Disgrace

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 02:19

... look how fat and out of shape those NASCAR drivers are.


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#9624 George Costanza

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 02:26

Part of the problem, I think, is refueling, he was a master at that....

#9625 steveninthematrix

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 05:56

i am always wondering if something is going on at MGP, on michael's car...

drs problems, kers problems, etc etc....

but that being said, there are soooo many engineers and so much telementry data, someone surely would pick it up...


FP3 is normally the car being setup for Quali, with the engine not yet completely turned up

FP3, MS is 2nd fastest with a 1.26.038

Q2, MS gets a 1.26.1, and in Q3, a 1.26.6 ???

in comparison

Vettel - FP3 - 1.26.037
Nico - FP3 - 1.26.420

Vettel - Q2 - 1.25.610, Q3 - 1.25.049
Nico - Q2 - 1.25.810, Q3 - 1.25.574

i.e. as you're turning the engine up, you keep going faster, 4-6 tenths from Fp3 to Q2, and 3-6 tenths from Q2-Q3

except Michael, he just went slower and slower.... it is peculiar, if he was able to get a 1.26.1 in Fp3, and then the engine management is turned up and up... what happens?

just strange


#9626 Dodi_napalm

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 05:58

Bigger problem is testing ban. He was even bigger master at that.

#9627 topical

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:07

For Schumacher the humiliation continues. It is painful to watch and it really is time for the old man to jack it in.

#9628 Professor Arturo

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:05

Does Willi Weber still manage MS?

#9629 Spa95

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:08

Does Willi Weber still manage MS?

No, it's Sabine Kehm now.

#9630 Massa_f1

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:09

Does Willi Weber still manage MS?


No. Part of the reason being he manages Nico Hukenburg, and the other being i think he adviced him not to come back in the first place.

#9631 rog

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:33

Q2, MS gets a 1.26.1, and in Q3, a 1.26.6 ???


Because he made an error in corner 1 on his Q3 lap, which ruined his entire lap. He admitted it yesterday.

#9632 libano

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:46

Because he made an error in corner 1 on his Q3 lap, which ruined his entire lap. He admitted it yesterday.



doesn't explain why he lost most of his time in sector 2.

#9633 Hacklerf

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:47

Massa has the same difference to Alonso, but he doesnt get the flack Michael does, everyone just gangs up on him

#9634 as65p

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:50

doesn't explain why he lost most of his time in sector 2.


It does. Apparently he got his tyres dirty with that error, hence no grip for a good deal of the lap, incl. S2.

#9635 as65p

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:53

Massa has the same difference to Alonso, but he doesnt get the flack Michael does, everyone just gangs up on him


If the expectation on MS were to perform like Massa, you'd have a point.

#9636 BRK

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:02

That's what Brawn said I think, that he ran wide at the first corner and had dirty tyres as a result, that sort of thing still wouldn't explain the massive gap to P1.

#9637 rog

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:06

doesn't explain why he lost most of his time in sector 2.


Because he ruined his tyres in this corner. He drove wide and tried to correct it with too much wheelspin and then he lost his grip of the fresh tyres. It could be a combination of the dirty tyres and the messed up rear tyres due to wheelpin.

#9638 Number62

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:08

I honestly don't know why he doesn't re-retire immediately. Of all the possible reasons to continue I can only think of:

He's winning
He thinks there's a chance of winning
He's beating his team mate
He's extracting the maximum from the package
He's doing a fantastic development job
He's enjoying himself
He needs the money

But not one of those is true.

If he was rubbish but enjoying himself I think most people would agree he has earned the right to carry on.

What's left to keep putting it on the line for?

#9639 nbhb

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:44

I rewatch the race. Shumi's times were good. If not that Petrov incident he would have did much better. He was on a 3 stop strategy and he didn't finished far away from Button.

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#9640 BRK

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:59

The thing is at one stage he was even only 4 seonds behind Rosberg in race and lapping better and not far off the pace of the Ferrari's. I just wish Micheal could avoid accidents more and he would not be far off Rosbergs points total. He needs to get top 6 on Saturday to avoid these kind of contacts.


Absolutely, he needs to work on his one-lap pace and hopefully the mysterious issues that seem to crop up for him every qualifying session will finally stop. Pending a proper debrief and an internal investigation, of course.  ;)



#9641 Massa_f1

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:02

Absolutely, he needs to work on his one-lap pace and hopefully the mysterious issues that seem to crop up for him every qualifying session will finally stop. Pending a proper debrief and an internal investigation, of course. ;)


He should do two runs in Q3 Just doing the one run can not be helping in my opinion.

#9642 arknor

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:25

It was ridiculous. DC saying "Schumacher has never been good in traffic" for instance. We should really trust an authority in attitudes in overtaking from David Coulthard because...

theres another video aswell where schumacher is trying to overtake coulthard and schumachers on the inside with all 4 wheels on the kerb and coulthard doesnt give him any space and they both crash..

coulthards career is full of embrassing blunders and brain farts..

SPA 98 coulthard causes the biggest pileup ever saw in f1 :rolleyes:
SPA 98 , coulthard slows down in the monsoon like conditions to let schumacher pass... but does it on the racing line :rolleyes:

coulthard is the last person who should be slagging anyone off he was never very good even as a number 2 to hakkinen...

schumacher fought his way from the back of the grid to win races more than a few times so seeing he was never any good at wheel to wheel racing is horse crap, im sure mika hakkinen remembers schumacher beeing more than good enough at wheel to wheel racing as they did it fairly often

#9643 Odseybod

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:30

I'm beginning to wonder if Michael is having a recurrance of the neck/back injury from his motorbike crash that made it very painful to turn his head? A couple of incidents over the weekend - being startled off the track by a passing car in FP1 and the Petrov skirmish in the race - would have been on the periphery of his field of vision if he was reluctant to turn his head away from the straight-ahead position. The G-forces through Turn 8 would also not have been kind to a damaged neck, perhaps aggravating the problem.

#9644 Aviator

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 11:22

Since MS returned to F1 i have read, i have read i have read....
Did anyone in this forum ever said this? [haven't seen it before, anyway]

MS
1. He is not getting bored [!!!]
2. He is playing with his favorite toys [isn't that something?]
3. He doesn't mess with Corina everyday [he has all the excuses for not being there]
4. He makes huge money [fooling everyone around :p ]
5. He is having a good time!

And people try to analyze this?? :rotfl:

Honestly gentlemen, if you had the same chances wouldn't have done the same?

Edited by Aviator, 09 May 2011 - 11:23.


#9645 jav

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 12:43

As a Schumacher fan, I can't overlook a few things. 1) Nico is consistently getting more out of the car than MS. 2) Merc's car is not on par with Redbull but seems to have improved to the point of mixing it up in the next tier. 3) P8 qualifying and P12 in the race appears to be more driver than car related.

Unless there is some internal sabotage going on, it does appear MS effectiveness behind the wheel is questionable. And, to suggest sabotage without clear and compelling proof is just going to make things worse all around. I now suspect that if things don't improve significantly, a change will be made after this season- with his concent or without it.

#9646 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 13:39

Well, onwards and upwards to Barcelona. A track which he has performed fairly well at over his career and finishing 4th last year. I suspect he'll, provided there's not a mystifying occurrence with his car, nip ahead of Nico

#9647 Tardis40

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 14:08

I can understand Michael's frustration.

He had a yen to race and the opportunity came to join a title winning team. (and a German team to boot) The first car was a complete dog. This one is inconsistent. It's apparent he's losing patience and confidence in the team. Like, "I came out of retirement for THIS crap???"





#9648 Tardis40

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 14:08

I can understand Michael's frustration.

He had a yen to race and the opportunity came to join a title winning team. (and a German team to boot) The first car was a complete dog. This one is inconsistent. It's apparent he's losing patience and confidence in the team. Like, "I came out of retirement for THIS crap???"





#9649 Disgrace

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 14:30

It's apparent he's losing patience and confidence in the team.


This could only happen if he was getting the maximum out of the car. As it is, I'd say the team is losing patience and confidence in Schumacher.

#9650 puxanando

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 14:57

Is it true, that Schumacher coudn't remember if he had a three- or four stop, when he was speaking with a SKY redacteur after the race??? :cat: