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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#9651 Anomnader

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 17:40

Is it true, that Schumacher coudn't remember if he had a three- or four stop, when he was speaking with a SKY redacteur after the race??? :cat:



Doesn't mean much, neither could Lewis.

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#9652 FNG

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 18:44

I was really pulling for Schu last year and this year. Really wanted him to have a good comeback. I was a huge fan in the Benetton days and very early Ferrari days. Stopped being a fan around 2002 to retirement. Then was really pulling for him again with the comeback but I really have to say it's getting embarrassing now. I guess he needs to save face and finish the season but there is no way he should be back for 2012, it's just too painful to watch now. I feel sorry for him.

#9653 aditya-now

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 18:54

....Both drivers make a mistake. Petrov still missing the apex. Schumacher still aiming for the apex even though there's a car there.


Exactly - nothing more than that - why all the fuzz. We have all seen far worse from Schumi.



Since MS returned to F1 i have read, i have read i have read....
Did anyone in this forum ever said this? [haven't seen it before, anyway]

MS
1. He is not getting bored [!!!]
2. He is playing with his favorite toys [isn't that something?]
3. He doesn't mess with Corina everyday [he has all the excuses for not being there]
4. He makes huge money [fooling everyone around :p ]
5. He is having a good time!

And people try to analyze this?? :rotfl:

Honestly gentlemen, if you had the same chances wouldn't have done the same?


I think he is in a unique and enviable position - who wouldn´t want to be in his shoes?
However, the ice is wearing a bit thin, isn´t it?

#9654 Buttoneer

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 19:59

Petrov v Schumacher moved to its own thread

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=147485

#9655 Murdoch

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 20:15

Massa has the same difference to Alonso, but he doesnt get the flack Michael does, everyone just gangs up on him


Massa is competing against Alonso (most people would put him in the top 3 bracket)

Schumacher (a 7 time world champion) is competing against Rosberg (who was outclassed by Hamilton on route to F1)

Are you really, I mean 'really', that surprised?

#9656 BJHF1

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 22:21

Massa is competing against Alonso (most people would put him in the top 3 bracket)

Schumacher (a 7 time world champion) is competing against Rosberg (who was outclassed by Hamilton on route to F1)

Are you really, I mean 'really', that surprised?


As if that really means anything :lol: Vettel got "outclassed" (more like smashed) in Euro F3 back in the day by numerous drivers (Hamilton, Di Resta, Di Grassi, Sutil) ...so what's your opinion of him?

#9657 Muz Bee

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 22:45

Well, onwards and upwards to Barcelona. A track which he has performed fairly well at over his career and finishing 4th last year. I suspect he'll, provided there's not a mystifying occurrence with his car, nip ahead of Nico

Like, when Nico has a bad weekend and his car doesn't seem to work for him, as at Malaysia. Here Nico had performed well in the past, but according to his fans, it's Michael showing his superiority. Drawing a line through all the peaks and troughs it's always Nico coming up 3/10ths ahead or better and greater consistency with it. Michael's starts have been very good but maybe part of that is he is starting among slower cars from poor qualifying.

No there doesn't seem to be any mystery to it anymore. 20 races is enough for anyone serious enough to look at the facts and say, he has lost it. He has lost it so much that it's unlikely he will get another season. It's disappointing as he was once great, no longer is, not even a top 10 driver, so why would MB bother for 2012. Come to think of it, why would Michael bother?

#9658 minardifans

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 22:49

Maybe if Schumacher was a little less aggressive and allowed cars that are faster than him (due to being on a different strategy) past. By being overly defensive he ends up losing himself more time and causes more collisions.

#9659 Birelman

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:27

Maybe if Schumacher was a little less aggressive and allowed cars that are faster than him (due to being on a different strategy) past. By being overly defensive he ends up losing himself more time and causes more collisions.

Well, that would certainly net him better results, but, if he did that, he wouldn't really be Michael Schumacher. What he needs to do is drive smart, he used to outsmart everyone, which I think was always his biggest asset. He hasn't been driving smart, there's a fine line between driving aggressively and driving stupidly, and, IMO, he's been closer to the latter. He needs to get back to what he does best, and that's driving with his head, the speed isn't going to be there to beat these kids head on, however, he does posses enough speed to be able to beat them by outsmarting them.

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#9660 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 07:20

Here's an overtaking statistic from Clip the Apex:

Total overtakes: 113
Drivers: most overtaking moves: Felipe Massa (13), Kamui Kobayashi (11), Michael Schumacher (11)
Most times overtaken: Heikki Kovalainen (13), Michael Schumacher (10), Jaime Alguersuari (9), Jarno Trulli (9)

Clearly, being in the middle of the pack puts you in a lot of action. This does point out though that Schumacher was involved in 21 passes, of which only the first one was problematic in terms of integrity. Then again, Turkey was ridiculous in terms of how easy it was to pass at the DRS zone.

#9661 OSX

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 08:56

Reality Strikes For Schumacher
9 May 2011

"We have to be careful when ex drivers of a similar age to Schumacher say that his age has nothing to do with it, as Johnny Herbert has said this week, for instance, or Jacques Villeneuve has said several time. It is in their interests to say that as they are all hoping to get paid well to drive competitive cars in their 40s. I don’t think that Rosberg, Vettel and Hamilton are “better” than Schumcher, they are just better than he is now."

"I don’t go along with people who say that he’s damaging his legacy. He won seven world titles in his prime, no-one can take that away from him. There are one or two problems with his legacy anyway, due to controversies he got himself into, but what’s happening now has no impact on what he achieved before to my mind.

This period of return has simply been an epilogue, which has yet to find its sense of purpose."

http://www.jamesalle...for-schumacher/


Nice and fair article from Allen. The age is surely an issue no matter what the ex-rivals say.


#9662 as65p

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:06

Reality Strikes For Schumacher
9 May 2011

"We have to be careful when ex drivers of a similar age to Schumacher say that his age has nothing to do with it, as Johnny Herbert has said this week, for instance, or Jacques Villeneuve has said several time. It is in their interests to say that as they are all hoping to get paid well to drive competitive cars in their 40s. I don’t think that Rosberg, Vettel and Hamilton are “better” than Schumcher, they are just better than he is now."

"I don’t go along with people who say that he’s damaging his legacy. He won seven world titles in his prime, no-one can take that away from him. There are one or two problems with his legacy anyway, due to controversies he got himself into, but what’s happening now has no impact on what he achieved before to my mind.

This period of return has simply been an epilogue, which has yet to find its sense of purpose."

http://www.jamesalle...for-schumacher/


Nice and fair article from Allen. The age is surely an issue no matter what the ex-rivals say.


Uh-oh. I completely agree with J. Allen :eek:

#9663 MichaelJP

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:22

I honestly don't know why he doesn't re-retire immediately. Of all the possible reasons to continue I can only think of:

He's winning
He thinks there's a chance of winning
He's beating his team mate
He's extracting the maximum from the package
He's doing a fantastic development job
He's enjoying himself
He needs the money

But not one of those is true.

If he was rubbish but enjoying himself I think most people would agree he has earned the right to carry on.

What's left to keep putting it on the line for?


OK, here are a few reasons..

He doesn't want to finish his career on a low
He has a contract to finish the year
He doesn't want to be seen as a quitter
Things may get better

It's embarrassing for him now, but far worse to drop out mid-season.


#9664 puxanando

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:27

It's embarrassing for him now, but far worse to drop out mid-season.

But it can get more embarrassing for him when he will go worse....and worse....and worse :|

#9665 2ms

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:47

Herbert sounds like a total ass with his comments about Schumacher. He honestly sounds like some fanboy in a Hamilton vs Alonso argument. Except that he's an anti-Schumacher one. Anyway, just thought I'd share that I just lost lot of respect for a certain former teammate of Schumacher's.

Edited by 2ms, 10 May 2011 - 09:47.


#9666 hotstickyslick

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:50

Herbert sounds like a total ass with his comments about Schumacher. He honestly sounds like some fanboy in a Hamilton vs Alonso argument. Except that he's an anti-Schumacher one. Anyway, just thought I'd share that I just lost lot of respect for a certain former teammate of Schumacher's.

For the most part I agree with him. Don't understand why you think he's a total arse, though. Nevermind, don't want to know.

#9667 steveninthematrix

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:19

again, allow me to iterate,

MS was very fast in FP3, and right there in Q1 ... and then, it just starts to fall apart...

too much pressure on himself? over-driving? something hasn't gelled.... but, I am thinking Monaco will be the race that turns his season around and he wants his hunger and desire for perfection again..... when a tenth of a second matters, only perfection allows you to reach the goal.

the guy who drive Monaco 06 from last all the way through the field virtually, and Brazil 06 with the puncture, is still there, somewhere.....

#9668 Longtimefan

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:26

I tend to ignore any comments on Schumi by Herbert, he is very anti-Schu and bitter. that is plain to see over the years, I guess being spanked by Schumi at Benetton didn't help but even in documentaries his bitterness is plain for all to see.



#9669 FenderJaguar

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:37

I think Schumacher is pushing harder than other drivers from practice 1. So he looks OK until the end of qualifying when other drivers start to really push and then he is not so OK. Just a thought.

#9670 eoin

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:40

again, allow me to iterate,

MS was very fast in FP3, and right there in Q1 ... and then, it just starts to fall apart...

too much pressure on himself? over-driving? something hasn't gelled.... but, I am thinking Monaco will be the race that turns his season around and he wants his hunger and desire for perfection again..... when a tenth of a second matters, only perfection allows you to reach the goal.

the guy who drive Monaco 06 from last all the way through the field virtually, and Brazil 06 with the puncture, is still there, somewhere.....


Well that's the problem- most weekends seem to fall apart for him. I also disagree that Monaco will be 'the turning point'. If he can't get it right at Barcelona then there is no chance he will get it right at Monaco. Monaco is a confidence circuit and right now Schumacher's confidence is at an all time low.

I think Schumacher is pushing harder than other drivers from practice 1. So he looks OK until the end of qualifying when other drivers start to really push and then he is not so OK. Just a thought.


I think both he and Rosberg push more than most drivers in practice- Rosberg wants to keep the upper-hand and Schumacher wants to get some momentum. However that doesn't explain why he did a 1.26.0** in P3 and then did a 1:26.6 in Q3- with less fuel and more rubber down he should of been 3-4 tenths faster, not 6 tenths slower.

Edited by eoin, 10 May 2011 - 10:49.


#9671 Augurk

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:48

I think Schumacher is pushing harder than other drivers from practice 1. So he looks OK until the end of qualifying when other drivers start to really push and then he is not so OK. Just a thought.

That theory falls apart because Schumacher went backwards from FP3 to Quali, whilst the track only improved.

#9672 Taxi

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:57

Schumie is 42. Time as gone, he should call it a day co's now it's a bit embarrassing seeing him in a good car traveling in the middle of the field taking beatings from Sutil or Barrichello. The all time best driver does not need that. Everyone should now when to quit. That is one of the qualities i admire in champions like Prost, Hakkinen or Gronholm. 

#9673 Augurk

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:00

Everyone said basically the same after China last year. They replaced his chassis and promptly he was up there again.
I'm not saying his chassis is or isn't damaged again. Just that this is another knee-jerk reaction to his first bad race of the year. And his first bad qualifying without an explanation.

He won't get even worse, he will do better in races to come, and I think we still have some potential highlights to see the rest of the year. :)

#9674 Daniel Lester

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:06

I think the purpose of the comeback will ultimately for Schumacher to get closure and realise that time catches up with everyone and you can't be at the top level of a sport forever.


However having an older driver off his peak performance up against a young charger at the top of his game is hardly unique, Prost/Lauda, Senna/Prost are two examples I can think of. The older driver in each pair didn't have the single lap speed for qualifying but could compete in the races through being more strategic and a little cunning. Thus when the pressure goes on in Q2 or Q3 to get that last half second Rosberg finds it and Schumacher doesn't and I'm sure it hurts Schumcher cause he was a guy that could do it all the time when he was younger and now that he can't it fustrates him. The sooner Schumacher admits to himself the game is different and age/time has slowed him up a bit the sooner he can rethink his approach a bit, accepting 10th on the grid and saving more sets of tyres for the race for example - or tuning the car to be a great, tyre protecting, race car and not so good in qualifying.

The other part of the game for Schumacher is adjusting to a formula where not every pass is going to ruin your day as it more often than not did back in 'his era', giving up early if someone has the run on you in the DRS zone, maximising your lap times and preserving tyre life may ultimately provide a better strategy that gets you back in front later in the race. By not letting Petrov go he broke a wing and put himself onto a strategy that needed to find 10 laps of tyre life across the reminder of race the others didn't (for the same number of tyre sets), it also put him out of synch with those around him, his tyres were old when theirs were new and he got beat up as a result.

The old boy has to get clever and play more of Prost style racer than the Senna style and get beyond the mental side of not being what he was. If he can do any of that he may just find that he can enjoy it, get some reasonable results without needing to be the dominator he once was and close out his career in the knowledge that he had nothing left to give.


In some ways I'm surprised ex F1 drivers who have retired from F1 don't do a season or 2 of GP2 - would be good for the young guys coming through to show they can beat and established bench mark.


#9675 SeanValen

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:12

Everyone said basically the same after China last year. They replaced his chassis and promptly he was up there again.
I'm not saying his chassis is or isn't damaged again. Just that this is another knee-jerk reaction to his first bad race of the year. And his first bad qualifying without an explanation.

He won't get even worse, he will do better in races to come, and I think we still have some potential highlights to see the rest of the year. :)



If I remember correctly wasn't Turkey after Spain last year? Turkey was infact after Monaco, it is now 2 races earlier. The 4th race last year was CHina, which was MS's bad race last year and Turkey where he was overall better last year then Rosberg was the 4th race this year. The 5th race remains Spain. If he can do some more Q3 sessions this year, iand or the team explains what happened in turkey, either way, going forward will explain more eventually. Albert Park the team was a mess, so was Sepang yet MS came out on top, MS never liked China unless it rained ,but his race was better then last year, I would say Turkey was a bad weekend, hs first proper one, the other weekends such as the DRS failure in quali for China I'll give to the team.

Edited by SeanValen, 10 May 2011 - 11:15.


#9676 Kohque

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:20

Independently of who he is, Mercedes should replace him if he doesn't improve his performance A LOT. There are not many seats in F1 and there are really a lot young drivers waiting for a chance to compete in F1. It is sad, for example, to see Hulkenberg as a test driver while Schumacher is giving an awful spectacle with the third o fourth car of the championship.

#9677 Murdoch

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:25

As if that really means anything :lol: Vettel got "outclassed" (more like smashed) in Euro F3 back in the day by numerous drivers (Hamilton, Di Resta, Di Grassi, Sutil) ...so what's your opinion of him?


Ok for arguments sake lets leave the route to F1 out of this, as Kobyashi didn't have a stella ride to F1, but appears to be doing ok now. So might not be the best yard stick to work to.

However, do you think Rosberg is better, equal to or worse than Alonso?

If your answer is correct then you will now understand the point I was originally making....

p.s I think Vettel is over-rated, good, but over-rated :wave:

#9678 ivand911

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:28

I think both he and Rosberg push more than most drivers in practice- Rosberg wants to keep the upper-hand and Schumacher wants to get some momentum. However that doesn't explain why he did a 1.26.0** in P3 and then did a 1:26.6 in Q3- with less fuel and more rubber down he should of been 3-4 tenths faster, not 6 tenths slower.

Yes, this is the strange thing. OK, to say that he made mistake(tyre problem or whatever) somewhere, he have one bad lap. But, he didn't have time for another lap. In Q1 and Q2 he was in the track early(and it work well for him) and I thought that they learn the lesson ,but he made in Q3 the old mistake ,he get out late. This is his biggest mistake. Coming out late put more pressure on the driver. Almost all other drivers come very early in Q3 and did their lap. Some of them did two stints. But, they have time for another stint ,where Michael didn't have. He say they didn't manage to duplicate what they did in FP3. How this happen? Did they change something on the car, they should know what they did after FP3. But, as I said biggest mistake is not having time for another stint, just in case. He needed this another stint every Qualy this year. It is not shameful to come out early and to register a lap time.


#9679 zack1994

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:29

Reality Strikes For Schumacher
9 May 2011

"We have to be careful when ex drivers of a similar age to Schumacher say that his age has nothing to do with it, as Johnny Herbert has said this week, for instance, or Jacques Villeneuve has said several time. It is in their interests to say that as they are all hoping to get paid well to drive competitive cars in their 40s. I don’t think that Rosberg, Vettel and Hamilton are “better” than Schumcher, they are just better than he is now."

"I don’t go along with people who say that he’s damaging his legacy. He won seven world titles in his prime, no-one can take that away from him. There are one or two problems with his legacy anyway, due to controversies he got himself into, but what’s happening now has no impact on what he achieved before to my mind.

This period of return has simply been an epilogue, which has yet to find its sense of purpose."

http://www.jamesalle...for-schumacher/


Nice and fair article from Allen. The age is surely an issue no matter what the ex-rivals say.

Totally agree with allen. Herbert sounds bitter and he is talking rubbish, in my view micheal schumacher is the best of all time and to compare the schumacher of now to the schumacher of old is ridiculus, old age and a three year gap are the reason why he not the same driver simple as that.

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#9680 baddog

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:37

it's a bit embarrassing seeing him in a good car traveling in the middle of the field taking beatings from Sutil or Barrichello.

Well, as that is happening in your imagination only I wouldn't worry too much about it.. Neither of those drivers have been any serious competition for him this year, as they should not be. Michael's qualifying 3 performance and mistake at the start of the race are worthy of some criticism, but stop flat-out making stuff up

#9681 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:38

For me, while this race was no joy of joys and leaves me with the bitter aftertaste of that useless collision with Petrov, it wasn't a disaster either. Without that first pit stop, that took 30 seconds away from his time, he would have definitely been a contender for P6, which is one position less than Rosberg, who started second.

Yes, could've, would've, should've, just saying that this avalanche of bashing is not that justified. I understood it for China of last year, for Singapore, but he has not be off the pace in any of this year's races.

However, F1 is still a sport where results matter, so it is vital that Schumi can improve his conversion ratio of speed:points.

#9682 Tardis40

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:07

Herbert sounds like a total ass with his comments about Schumacher. He honestly sounds like some fanboy in a Hamilton vs Alonso argument. Except that he's an anti-Schumacher one. Anyway, just thought I'd share that I just lost lot of respect for a certain former teammate of Schumacher's.


He's a journalist and, when he doesn't have anything to write about, he can always rake up a story about Michael.

I do agree with one point he makes however, and it's true for all sports. The competition is always getting stronger. So the task grows ever more difficult.

#9683 jav

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:18

Yes, this is the strange thing. OK, to say that he made mistake(tyre problem or whatever) somewhere, he have one bad lap. But, he didn't have time for another lap. In Q1 and Q2 he was in the track early(and it work well for him) and I thought that they learn the lesson ,but he made in Q3 the old mistake ,he get out late. This is his biggest mistake. Coming out late put more pressure on the driver. Almost all other drivers come very early in Q3 and did their lap. Some of them did two stints. But, they have time for another stint ,where Michael didn't have. He say they didn't manage to duplicate what they did in FP3. How this happen? Did they change something on the car, they should know what they did after FP3. But, as I said biggest mistake is not having time for another stint, just in case. He needed this another stint every Qualy this year. It is not shameful to come out early and to register a lap time.



Ivan-

to be fair, Rosberg continually works with the same "one stint" methodology and consistently does a better job. Also- with tire allocations, running 2 stints in Q3 "might" give you a better starting position but it will definitely make your first race stint harder if all the other front runners have more rubber left than you do. Brawn (and I think most on the grid) has said that this season, qualifying position is less important than tire/race strategy.

I get the impression that Schumi is driving with nothing in reserve in Q1 & Q2 while other drivers are only going full out in Q3. When he gets to Q3, becuase (he was all out before) he tries to find even more speed and it isn't there. This is why his times don't improve (and in fact have often gotten worse) in later qualifying sessions. You can say it's the car/team/strategy, as I once did, but when you have the same driver, in the same car, on newer tires, on a faster track, with less fuel- going slower... then car troubles and driver performance are the only explanations. Even he is not saying it's the car. Needing less pressure by having a second chance when your team mate doesn't need that "second chance" suggest he is unable to cope with the pressure. As much as I hate to admit it, he's not getting the job done.

Edited by jav, 10 May 2011 - 12:25.


#9684 DutchCruijff

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:37

"It’s like Lance Armstrong – dominant career, not without its controversies. Comes back because he misses it, doesn’t win anything but it’s a footnote in his story."

That sums this chapter up for me. Excruciating at times, but it'll seem like a "fun" period in hindsight. No pressure of the WDC, or wins, but just appreciating that Schumacher is on the grid.

Edited by DutchCruijff, 10 May 2011 - 12:45.


#9685 ivand911

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 16:22

Ivan-
to be fair, Rosberg continually works with the same "one stint" methodology and consistently does a better job. Also- with tire allocations, running 2 stints in Q3 "might" give you a better starting position but it will definitely make your first race stint harder if all the other front runners have more rubber left than you do. Brawn (and I think most on the grid) has said that this season, qualifying position is less important than tire/race strategy.

I get the impression that Schumi is driving with nothing in reserve in Q1 & Q2 while other drivers are only going full out in Q3. When he gets to Q3, becuase (he was all out before) he tries to find even more speed and it isn't there. This is why his times don't improve (and in fact have often gotten worse) in later qualifying sessions. You can say it's the car/team/strategy, as I once did, but when you have the same driver, in the same car, on newer tires, on a faster track, with less fuel- going slower... then car troubles and driver performance are the only explanations. Even he is not saying it's the car. Needing less pressure by having a second chance when your team mate doesn't need that "second chance" suggest he is unable to cope with the pressure. As much as I hate to admit it, he's not getting the job done.

From late runners Michael time was second behind Nico, Heidfeld and Massa finish Q3 behind him. So, it was not only problem for him. I think late(only one) stint is usually big danger, as it proved before. Other guys who made early stints didn't improve much on the second stint, but they already have one good time. Only Petrov improve, with something like 0,1 sec. I know it work well for Nico, but it is not working for Michael so he need to contra measure. What is the point to be stubborn with that. We see that Michael have reserve by his FP3 time. If he show better time in Q1 and Q2 , and it was his best(but still not good enough) time I would agree that this is his best. But, he usually can't reach his best from FP's. For me it is not matter how you do the job done. It is not matter when in Q3 you record your best time. He need to change something. He have to stop following Nico Qualy strategy, he need his own strategy.
Also for the race he was with 3 stop strategy according to MGP website. Accident with Petrov was very unfortunate. He let him pass ,but he didn't understand that Petrov will not take the corner.
http://www3.mercedes...-settles-turkey
"MICHAEL
As soon as Michael’s front wing made contact with the right-rear wheel of Petrov’s car on lap two while battling for position at Turn 12, he faced an uphill battle.

Essentially, Michael ran a three-stop race to which that unplanned early pit stop was added. He used only four sets of tyres in the race: the set of options on which he started and completed the first two laps, was re-used for his final 13-lap stint to the chequered flag.

Indeed, the total time that Michael spent in the pits for that first stop to replace the damaged wing was 30.182s. At the end of the race, in 12th position, he was just 25 seconds behind Jenson Button, who had also run a three-stop strategy.

He may have been involved in plenty of on-track battles on Sunday, but Michael’s pace in clean air was extremely strong – even though, stopping out of phase with the cars around him, he had even more on-track scraps than during a normal race: when his tyres were old, the cars around him were running new, and vice versa.

But everything suggests that, without that early unscheduled stop, Michael would have been battling with Button and Heidfeld all afternoon, at the very least, for sixth place… "

Edited by ivand911, 10 May 2011 - 16:24.


#9686 jav

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 16:56

From late runners Michael time was second behind Nico, Heidfeld and Massa finish Q3 behind him. So, it was not only problem for him. I think late(only one) stint is usually big danger, as it proved before. Other guys who made early stints didn't improve much on the second stint, but they already have one good time. Only Petrov improve, with something like 0,1 sec. I know it work well for Nico, but it is not working for Michael so he need to contra measure. What is the point to be stubborn with that. We see that Michael have reserve by his FP3 time. If he show better time in Q1 and Q2 , and it was his best(but still not good enough) time I would agree that this is his best. But, he usually can't reach his best from FP's. For me it is not matter how you do the job done. It is not matter when in Q3 you record your best time. He need to change something. He have to stop following Nico Qualy strategy, he need his own strategy.
Also for the race he was with 3 stop strategy according to MGP website. Accident with Petrov was very unfortunate. He let him pass ,but he didn't understand that Petrov will not take the corner.
http://www3.mercedes...-settles-turkey
"MICHAEL
As soon as Michael’s front wing made contact with the right-rear wheel of Petrov’s car on lap two while battling for position at Turn 12, he faced an uphill battle.

Essentially, Michael ran a three-stop race to which that unplanned early pit stop was added. He used only four sets of tyres in the race: the set of options on which he started and completed the first two laps, was re-used for his final 13-lap stint to the chequered flag.

Indeed, the total time that Michael spent in the pits for that first stop to replace the damaged wing was 30.182s. At the end of the race, in 12th position, he was just 25 seconds behind Jenson Button, who had also run a three-stop strategy.

He may have been involved in plenty of on-track battles on Sunday, but Michael’s pace in clean air was extremely strong – even though, stopping out of phase with the cars around him, he had even more on-track scraps than during a normal race: when his tyres were old, the cars around him were running new, and vice versa.

But everything suggests that, without that early unscheduled stop, Michael would have been battling with Button and Heidfeld all afternoon, at the very least, for sixth place… ".


Rose colored glasses my freind. We can take solice in lap times and find any number excuses but what I said remains a fact- Micheal is not getting it done. Sure Massa and Nick wer behind him but Massa didn't even make a lap in Q3 and Nick at least improved on his Q2 time. The incident with Petrov was stupid on Petrov's behalf for trying to make that pass but it was stupider still on Schumi's part to turn in when Petrov was clearly in his line of sight- front tire to rear tire. Ok, so he didn't expect Petrov to go straight but MS clearly turned in prior to contacting Petrovs rear tire and again when he lost his wing. He could have avoided contact- but he didn't.

Even if his laps were better than Vettels after that, finishing P12 and out of the points is all that really counts.

Edited by jav, 10 May 2011 - 16:57.


#9687 Murdoch

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 17:12

Rose colored glasses my freind. We can take solice in lap times and find any number excuses but what I said remains a fact- Micheal is not getting it done. Sure Massa and Nick wer behind him but Massa didn't even make a lap in Q3 and Nick at least improved on his Q2 time. The incident with Petrov was stupid on Petrov's behalf for trying to make that pass but it was stupider still on Schumi's part to turn in when Petrov was clearly in his line of sight- front tire to rear tire. Ok, so he didn't expect Petrov to go straight but MS clearly turned in prior to contacting Petrovs rear tire and again when he lost his wing. He could have avoided contact- but he didn't.

Even if his laps were better than Vettels after that, finishing P12 and out of the points is all that really counts.


And if he qualified better he wouldn't of been near Petrov..................but he didn't.

#9688 sharo

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 17:16

IIRC Massa went out and started a lap but aborted it because sector times were poor.

#9689 ivand911

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 17:52

Rose colored glasses my freind. We can take solice in lap times and find any number excuses but what I said remains a fact- Micheal is not getting it done. Sure Massa and Nick wer behind him but Massa didn't even make a lap in Q3 and Nick at least improved on his Q2 time. The incident with Petrov was stupid on Petrov's behalf for trying to make that pass but it was stupider still on Schumi's part to turn in when Petrov was clearly in his line of sight- front tire to rear tire. Ok, so he didn't expect Petrov to go straight but MS clearly turned in prior to contacting Petrovs rear tire and again when he lost his wing. He could have avoided contact- but he didn't.
Even if his laps were better than Vettels after that, finishing P12 and out of the points is all that really counts.

I don't think that I was making excuses for Michael, I just say that he need to change something. Because, Qualy strategy is not working for him and he have to focus on that.
About Petrov I don't think that Michael knowing his own 3 stop strategy , he was trying to hit him or to mess with him. He let him go, and was ready to take outside line. But, Petrov didn't stop and continue straight. For me he hit Michael who started to turn on outside line. If Petrov was going to turn into the corner ,they wouldn't collide. For me it was Petrov rear tyre hitting Michael front tyre and changing his direction in the process. We see other drivers taking this corner by pairs. But, driver inside was taking the corner, not like Petrov was continuing straight.


#9690 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 17:58

Schumacher still has the innate talent and still KNOWS what to do. He, however, just cannot pull the trigger anymore.

Muhammad Ali couldn't.

Mike Tyson couldn't.

Michael Schumacher can't.

This isn't golf. This is the most dangerous sport on earth. Your reflexes and twitch fibres need to be 100% functioning to get the best out of yourself and your machine. IF you can't, do something else.

It's incredibly saddening watching Michael over-driving (his raw pace is good, and he is still quick enough to be in F1 on MERIT), getting involved in silly accidents and fighting for scraps.

#9691 zack1994

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 19:10

He's a journalist and, when he doesn't have anything to write about, he can always rake up a story about Michael.

I do agree with one point he makes however, and it's true for all sports. The competition is always getting stronger. So the task grows ever more difficult.

from the year 2006 when schumacher retired two quality drivers have come into the sport vettel and hamilton not a massive difference really, schumacher still competed against the likes of alonso, button, webber, kubica, rubens, heidfeld, rosberg, trulli and massa in 2006. Nearly beating alonso in 2006 so to say the competition has got better and thats why schumacher is struggling is nonsense in his prime he could beat anyone but not now he has lost it, old age and 3 year gap are the reason for his uncompetivenes not better drivers.

#9692 sharo

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 19:15

Been wondering how old are you all guys who explain so knowledgeably what it is like to be 42, I suppose you are somewhere above 52 at least :)
And speaking about reflexes, what about his starts?

#9693 Callisto

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 19:29

I didnt get the impression herbert was being bitter towards schumi,i thought the article was quite balanced

#9694 Sakae

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 20:30

Since day one when we learned that he is coming back, I have encountered 100+1 endless analyses about his alleged shotcomings. I can only believe however what the man himslef said in a recent interview, and that should be enough for me. He is OK, and ready to race!

Schumacher's greatest problem at the moment probably is not his age, skills, or physical condition. I say, it is tire and the car set-up. It is illness Webber is suffering from, Trulli has one and the same, and with all due respect, there could be some other drivers, including (I think) Hamilton. His last race was weird one. Not much was written about it because some fans like the state of F1 as it is today (mostly newcomers to F1), but I cannot believe that true blue racers do.

I root for Vettel too, and as much as I am happy about his winnings, at the same time I fear before season ends he will run into the same tire issues as others have, and he will not be able to do anything about it. It raises the question then what scoring system is really reflecting on. Luck, or skills?

Edited by Sakae, 10 May 2011 - 20:30.


#9695 slmk

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 20:38

"It’s like Lance Armstrong – dominant career, not without its controversies. Comes back because he misses it, doesn’t win anything but it’s a footnote in his story."

That sums this chapter up for me. Excruciating at times, but it'll seem like a "fun" period in hindsight. No pressure of the WDC, or wins, but just appreciating that Schumacher is on the grid.


But Armstrong still finished 3rd in the TDF and cycling is way harder on the body than F1.

#9696 carbonfibre

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 20:43

I didnt get the impression herbert was being bitter towards schumi,i thought the article was quite balanced

No but his statements arent right.

Tell me this had Schumacher not retired at the end of 2006 what would have happened? Kimi wouldn't have joined Ferrari and Michael would have won both the 2007 and the 2008 WDC in those cars. He was still a hell of a lot better then Massa in 2006.

The three year break has cost Michael a lot, he lost track of the developments and got out of the rhythem being in F1 and working on the car all day and every time. As Herbert said speedwise he is the same i also believe that, and the competition sure has got better but where is Alonso? Still fighting at the front and Michael was on equel terms (if not better) then Alonso when he retired. It's just a combination of things why it isn't working out like it can. Luck wise he hasn't had much ever since he returned, and when he does get the car to his liking he still is very very fast but it seems hard for him to get it just right.

Edited by carbonfibre, 10 May 2011 - 20:44.


#9697 Hairpin

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 21:11

Been wondering how old are you all guys who explain so knowledgeably what it is like to be 42, I suppose you are somewhere above 52 at least :)
And speaking about reflexes, what about his starts?

It does help to be in Schumis age and try to do things you excelled at before. It's not the same. Mind wanders more. Body react differently. Not necessarily slower always, but the edge is not there. There is no "wow, how did I do that". Instead it is, "oops, how did that happen". It is normal. Even for a Schumi. He is doing great. Just not good enough.

#9698 puxanando

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 21:39

Schumacher want manage this blamage with coolness...but I think he suffers a lot reading and hearing all this critik about him.
If he had know what will happen, he had not come back...never!!

#9699 Talryyn

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 21:46

Schumacher want manage this blamage with coolness...but I think he suffers a lot reading and hearing all this critik about him.
If he had know what will happen, he had not come back...never!!

I don't know, had it been me I would do the same and make the comeback.


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#9700 Muz Bee

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 21:48

It does help to be in Schumis age and try to do things you excelled at before. It's not the same. Mind wanders more. Body react differently. Not necessarily slower always, but the edge is not there. There is no "wow, how did I do that". Instead it is, "oops, how did that happen". It is normal. Even for a Schumi. He is doing great. Just not good enough.

:up: This is how it is. You might get out of bed and say "I feel 10 years younger than my age" but sometimes the stopwatch proves you wrong. Time is relentless and it has caught up on Michael and his racing abilities. He could be very useful putting his enormous experience into the team's progress in other areas, even testing to a point. But he isn't providing the race weekend feedback it would seem as the team ended up after qualifying with a hopeless RACEcar. I would have expected this to be an area Ross and Michael would have done much much better at.