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#9701 Tardis40

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:07

Herbert sounds like a total ass with his comments about Schumacher. He honestly sounds like some fanboy in a Hamilton vs Alonso argument. Except that he's an anti-Schumacher one. Anyway, just thought I'd share that I just lost lot of respect for a certain former teammate of Schumacher's.


He's a journalist and, when he doesn't have anything to write about, he can always rake up a story about Michael.

I do agree with one point he makes however, and it's true for all sports. The competition is always getting stronger. So the task grows ever more difficult.

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#9702 jav

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:18

Yes, this is the strange thing. OK, to say that he made mistake(tyre problem or whatever) somewhere, he have one bad lap. But, he didn't have time for another lap. In Q1 and Q2 he was in the track early(and it work well for him) and I thought that they learn the lesson ,but he made in Q3 the old mistake ,he get out late. This is his biggest mistake. Coming out late put more pressure on the driver. Almost all other drivers come very early in Q3 and did their lap. Some of them did two stints. But, they have time for another stint ,where Michael didn't have. He say they didn't manage to duplicate what they did in FP3. How this happen? Did they change something on the car, they should know what they did after FP3. But, as I said biggest mistake is not having time for another stint, just in case. He needed this another stint every Qualy this year. It is not shameful to come out early and to register a lap time.



Ivan-

to be fair, Rosberg continually works with the same "one stint" methodology and consistently does a better job. Also- with tire allocations, running 2 stints in Q3 "might" give you a better starting position but it will definitely make your first race stint harder if all the other front runners have more rubber left than you do. Brawn (and I think most on the grid) has said that this season, qualifying position is less important than tire/race strategy.

I get the impression that Schumi is driving with nothing in reserve in Q1 & Q2 while other drivers are only going full out in Q3. When he gets to Q3, becuase (he was all out before) he tries to find even more speed and it isn't there. This is why his times don't improve (and in fact have often gotten worse) in later qualifying sessions. You can say it's the car/team/strategy, as I once did, but when you have the same driver, in the same car, on newer tires, on a faster track, with less fuel- going slower... then car troubles and driver performance are the only explanations. Even he is not saying it's the car. Needing less pressure by having a second chance when your team mate doesn't need that "second chance" suggest he is unable to cope with the pressure. As much as I hate to admit it, he's not getting the job done.

Edited by jav, 10 May 2011 - 12:25.


#9703 DutchCruijff

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:37

"It’s like Lance Armstrong – dominant career, not without its controversies. Comes back because he misses it, doesn’t win anything but it’s a footnote in his story."

That sums this chapter up for me. Excruciating at times, but it'll seem like a "fun" period in hindsight. No pressure of the WDC, or wins, but just appreciating that Schumacher is on the grid.

Edited by DutchCruijff, 10 May 2011 - 12:45.


#9704 ivand911

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 16:22

Ivan-
to be fair, Rosberg continually works with the same "one stint" methodology and consistently does a better job. Also- with tire allocations, running 2 stints in Q3 "might" give you a better starting position but it will definitely make your first race stint harder if all the other front runners have more rubber left than you do. Brawn (and I think most on the grid) has said that this season, qualifying position is less important than tire/race strategy.

I get the impression that Schumi is driving with nothing in reserve in Q1 & Q2 while other drivers are only going full out in Q3. When he gets to Q3, becuase (he was all out before) he tries to find even more speed and it isn't there. This is why his times don't improve (and in fact have often gotten worse) in later qualifying sessions. You can say it's the car/team/strategy, as I once did, but when you have the same driver, in the same car, on newer tires, on a faster track, with less fuel- going slower... then car troubles and driver performance are the only explanations. Even he is not saying it's the car. Needing less pressure by having a second chance when your team mate doesn't need that "second chance" suggest he is unable to cope with the pressure. As much as I hate to admit it, he's not getting the job done.

From late runners Michael time was second behind Nico, Heidfeld and Massa finish Q3 behind him. So, it was not only problem for him. I think late(only one) stint is usually big danger, as it proved before. Other guys who made early stints didn't improve much on the second stint, but they already have one good time. Only Petrov improve, with something like 0,1 sec. I know it work well for Nico, but it is not working for Michael so he need to contra measure. What is the point to be stubborn with that. We see that Michael have reserve by his FP3 time. If he show better time in Q1 and Q2 , and it was his best(but still not good enough) time I would agree that this is his best. But, he usually can't reach his best from FP's. For me it is not matter how you do the job done. It is not matter when in Q3 you record your best time. He need to change something. He have to stop following Nico Qualy strategy, he need his own strategy.
Also for the race he was with 3 stop strategy according to MGP website. Accident with Petrov was very unfortunate. He let him pass ,but he didn't understand that Petrov will not take the corner.
http://www3.mercedes...-settles-turkey
"MICHAEL
As soon as Michael’s front wing made contact with the right-rear wheel of Petrov’s car on lap two while battling for position at Turn 12, he faced an uphill battle.

Essentially, Michael ran a three-stop race to which that unplanned early pit stop was added. He used only four sets of tyres in the race: the set of options on which he started and completed the first two laps, was re-used for his final 13-lap stint to the chequered flag.

Indeed, the total time that Michael spent in the pits for that first stop to replace the damaged wing was 30.182s. At the end of the race, in 12th position, he was just 25 seconds behind Jenson Button, who had also run a three-stop strategy.

He may have been involved in plenty of on-track battles on Sunday, but Michael’s pace in clean air was extremely strong – even though, stopping out of phase with the cars around him, he had even more on-track scraps than during a normal race: when his tyres were old, the cars around him were running new, and vice versa.

But everything suggests that, without that early unscheduled stop, Michael would have been battling with Button and Heidfeld all afternoon, at the very least, for sixth place… "

Edited by ivand911, 10 May 2011 - 16:24.


#9705 jav

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 16:56

From late runners Michael time was second behind Nico, Heidfeld and Massa finish Q3 behind him. So, it was not only problem for him. I think late(only one) stint is usually big danger, as it proved before. Other guys who made early stints didn't improve much on the second stint, but they already have one good time. Only Petrov improve, with something like 0,1 sec. I know it work well for Nico, but it is not working for Michael so he need to contra measure. What is the point to be stubborn with that. We see that Michael have reserve by his FP3 time. If he show better time in Q1 and Q2 , and it was his best(but still not good enough) time I would agree that this is his best. But, he usually can't reach his best from FP's. For me it is not matter how you do the job done. It is not matter when in Q3 you record your best time. He need to change something. He have to stop following Nico Qualy strategy, he need his own strategy.
Also for the race he was with 3 stop strategy according to MGP website. Accident with Petrov was very unfortunate. He let him pass ,but he didn't understand that Petrov will not take the corner.
http://www3.mercedes...-settles-turkey
"MICHAEL
As soon as Michael’s front wing made contact with the right-rear wheel of Petrov’s car on lap two while battling for position at Turn 12, he faced an uphill battle.

Essentially, Michael ran a three-stop race to which that unplanned early pit stop was added. He used only four sets of tyres in the race: the set of options on which he started and completed the first two laps, was re-used for his final 13-lap stint to the chequered flag.

Indeed, the total time that Michael spent in the pits for that first stop to replace the damaged wing was 30.182s. At the end of the race, in 12th position, he was just 25 seconds behind Jenson Button, who had also run a three-stop strategy.

He may have been involved in plenty of on-track battles on Sunday, but Michael’s pace in clean air was extremely strong – even though, stopping out of phase with the cars around him, he had even more on-track scraps than during a normal race: when his tyres were old, the cars around him were running new, and vice versa.

But everything suggests that, without that early unscheduled stop, Michael would have been battling with Button and Heidfeld all afternoon, at the very least, for sixth place… ".


Rose colored glasses my freind. We can take solice in lap times and find any number excuses but what I said remains a fact- Micheal is not getting it done. Sure Massa and Nick wer behind him but Massa didn't even make a lap in Q3 and Nick at least improved on his Q2 time. The incident with Petrov was stupid on Petrov's behalf for trying to make that pass but it was stupider still on Schumi's part to turn in when Petrov was clearly in his line of sight- front tire to rear tire. Ok, so he didn't expect Petrov to go straight but MS clearly turned in prior to contacting Petrovs rear tire and again when he lost his wing. He could have avoided contact- but he didn't.

Even if his laps were better than Vettels after that, finishing P12 and out of the points is all that really counts.

Edited by jav, 10 May 2011 - 16:57.


#9706 Murdoch

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 17:12

Rose colored glasses my freind. We can take solice in lap times and find any number excuses but what I said remains a fact- Micheal is not getting it done. Sure Massa and Nick wer behind him but Massa didn't even make a lap in Q3 and Nick at least improved on his Q2 time. The incident with Petrov was stupid on Petrov's behalf for trying to make that pass but it was stupider still on Schumi's part to turn in when Petrov was clearly in his line of sight- front tire to rear tire. Ok, so he didn't expect Petrov to go straight but MS clearly turned in prior to contacting Petrovs rear tire and again when he lost his wing. He could have avoided contact- but he didn't.

Even if his laps were better than Vettels after that, finishing P12 and out of the points is all that really counts.


And if he qualified better he wouldn't of been near Petrov..................but he didn't.

#9707 sharo

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 17:16

IIRC Massa went out and started a lap but aborted it because sector times were poor.

#9708 ivand911

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 17:52

Rose colored glasses my freind. We can take solice in lap times and find any number excuses but what I said remains a fact- Micheal is not getting it done. Sure Massa and Nick wer behind him but Massa didn't even make a lap in Q3 and Nick at least improved on his Q2 time. The incident with Petrov was stupid on Petrov's behalf for trying to make that pass but it was stupider still on Schumi's part to turn in when Petrov was clearly in his line of sight- front tire to rear tire. Ok, so he didn't expect Petrov to go straight but MS clearly turned in prior to contacting Petrovs rear tire and again when he lost his wing. He could have avoided contact- but he didn't.
Even if his laps were better than Vettels after that, finishing P12 and out of the points is all that really counts.

I don't think that I was making excuses for Michael, I just say that he need to change something. Because, Qualy strategy is not working for him and he have to focus on that.
About Petrov I don't think that Michael knowing his own 3 stop strategy , he was trying to hit him or to mess with him. He let him go, and was ready to take outside line. But, Petrov didn't stop and continue straight. For me he hit Michael who started to turn on outside line. If Petrov was going to turn into the corner ,they wouldn't collide. For me it was Petrov rear tyre hitting Michael front tyre and changing his direction in the process. We see other drivers taking this corner by pairs. But, driver inside was taking the corner, not like Petrov was continuing straight.


#9709 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 17:58

Schumacher still has the innate talent and still KNOWS what to do. He, however, just cannot pull the trigger anymore.

Muhammad Ali couldn't.

Mike Tyson couldn't.

Michael Schumacher can't.

This isn't golf. This is the most dangerous sport on earth. Your reflexes and twitch fibres need to be 100% functioning to get the best out of yourself and your machine. IF you can't, do something else.

It's incredibly saddening watching Michael over-driving (his raw pace is good, and he is still quick enough to be in F1 on MERIT), getting involved in silly accidents and fighting for scraps.

#9710 zack1994

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 19:10

He's a journalist and, when he doesn't have anything to write about, he can always rake up a story about Michael.

I do agree with one point he makes however, and it's true for all sports. The competition is always getting stronger. So the task grows ever more difficult.

from the year 2006 when schumacher retired two quality drivers have come into the sport vettel and hamilton not a massive difference really, schumacher still competed against the likes of alonso, button, webber, kubica, rubens, heidfeld, rosberg, trulli and massa in 2006. Nearly beating alonso in 2006 so to say the competition has got better and thats why schumacher is struggling is nonsense in his prime he could beat anyone but not now he has lost it, old age and 3 year gap are the reason for his uncompetivenes not better drivers.

#9711 sharo

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 19:15

Been wondering how old are you all guys who explain so knowledgeably what it is like to be 42, I suppose you are somewhere above 52 at least :)
And speaking about reflexes, what about his starts?

#9712 Callisto

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 19:29

I didnt get the impression herbert was being bitter towards schumi,i thought the article was quite balanced

#9713 Sakae

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 20:30

Since day one when we learned that he is coming back, I have encountered 100+1 endless analyses about his alleged shotcomings. I can only believe however what the man himslef said in a recent interview, and that should be enough for me. He is OK, and ready to race!

Schumacher's greatest problem at the moment probably is not his age, skills, or physical condition. I say, it is tire and the car set-up. It is illness Webber is suffering from, Trulli has one and the same, and with all due respect, there could be some other drivers, including (I think) Hamilton. His last race was weird one. Not much was written about it because some fans like the state of F1 as it is today (mostly newcomers to F1), but I cannot believe that true blue racers do.

I root for Vettel too, and as much as I am happy about his winnings, at the same time I fear before season ends he will run into the same tire issues as others have, and he will not be able to do anything about it. It raises the question then what scoring system is really reflecting on. Luck, or skills?

Edited by Sakae, 10 May 2011 - 20:30.


#9714 slmk

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 20:38

"It’s like Lance Armstrong – dominant career, not without its controversies. Comes back because he misses it, doesn’t win anything but it’s a footnote in his story."

That sums this chapter up for me. Excruciating at times, but it'll seem like a "fun" period in hindsight. No pressure of the WDC, or wins, but just appreciating that Schumacher is on the grid.


But Armstrong still finished 3rd in the TDF and cycling is way harder on the body than F1.

#9715 carbonfibre

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 20:43

I didnt get the impression herbert was being bitter towards schumi,i thought the article was quite balanced

No but his statements arent right.

Tell me this had Schumacher not retired at the end of 2006 what would have happened? Kimi wouldn't have joined Ferrari and Michael would have won both the 2007 and the 2008 WDC in those cars. He was still a hell of a lot better then Massa in 2006.

The three year break has cost Michael a lot, he lost track of the developments and got out of the rhythem being in F1 and working on the car all day and every time. As Herbert said speedwise he is the same i also believe that, and the competition sure has got better but where is Alonso? Still fighting at the front and Michael was on equel terms (if not better) then Alonso when he retired. It's just a combination of things why it isn't working out like it can. Luck wise he hasn't had much ever since he returned, and when he does get the car to his liking he still is very very fast but it seems hard for him to get it just right.

Edited by carbonfibre, 10 May 2011 - 20:44.


#9716 Hairpin

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 21:11

Been wondering how old are you all guys who explain so knowledgeably what it is like to be 42, I suppose you are somewhere above 52 at least :)
And speaking about reflexes, what about his starts?

It does help to be in Schumis age and try to do things you excelled at before. It's not the same. Mind wanders more. Body react differently. Not necessarily slower always, but the edge is not there. There is no "wow, how did I do that". Instead it is, "oops, how did that happen". It is normal. Even for a Schumi. He is doing great. Just not good enough.

#9717 puxanando

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 21:39

Schumacher want manage this blamage with coolness...but I think he suffers a lot reading and hearing all this critik about him.
If he had know what will happen, he had not come back...never!!

#9718 Talryyn

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 21:46

Schumacher want manage this blamage with coolness...but I think he suffers a lot reading and hearing all this critik about him.
If he had know what will happen, he had not come back...never!!

I don't know, had it been me I would do the same and make the comeback.


#9719 Muz Bee

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 21:48

It does help to be in Schumis age and try to do things you excelled at before. It's not the same. Mind wanders more. Body react differently. Not necessarily slower always, but the edge is not there. There is no "wow, how did I do that". Instead it is, "oops, how did that happen". It is normal. Even for a Schumi. He is doing great. Just not good enough.

:up: This is how it is. You might get out of bed and say "I feel 10 years younger than my age" but sometimes the stopwatch proves you wrong. Time is relentless and it has caught up on Michael and his racing abilities. He could be very useful putting his enormous experience into the team's progress in other areas, even testing to a point. But he isn't providing the race weekend feedback it would seem as the team ended up after qualifying with a hopeless RACEcar. I would have expected this to be an area Ross and Michael would have done much much better at.

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#9720 George Costanza

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 22:07

No but his statements arent right.

Tell me this had Schumacher not retired at the end of 2006 what would have happened? Kimi wouldn't have joined Ferrari and Michael would have won both the 2007 and the 2008 WDC in those cars. He was still a hell of a lot better then Massa in 2006.

The three year break has cost Michael a lot, he lost track of the developments and got out of the rhythem being in F1 and working on the car all day and every time. As Herbert said speedwise he is the same i also believe that, and the competition sure has got better but where is Alonso? Still fighting at the front and Michael was on equel terms (if not better) then Alonso when he retired. It's just a combination of things why it isn't working out like it can. Luck wise he hasn't had much ever since he returned, and when he does get the car to his liking he still is very very fast but it seems hard for him to get it just right.


There is no doubt in my mind had Schumacher raced until 2008 (when the cars were more to his liking and the we had refueling in the game), he would have easily been the World Champion.



#9721 jav

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 22:24

I don't think that I was making excuses for Michael, I just say that he need to change something. Because, Qualy strategy is not working for him and he have to focus on that.
About Petrov I don't think that Michael knowing his own 3 stop strategy , he was trying to hit him or to mess with him. He let him go, and was ready to take outside line. But, Petrov didn't stop and continue straight. For me he hit Michael who started to turn on outside line. If Petrov was going to turn into the corner ,they wouldn't collide. For me it was Petrov rear tyre hitting Michael front tyre and changing his direction in the process. We see other drivers taking this corner by pairs. But, driver inside was taking the corner, not like Petrov was continuing straight.



I agree, he needs to change something but I don't believe there is anything he can do to be anything more than a good #2 driver. Maybe that's enough- but I doubt he'd be happy with that. Sorry- don't agree on the Petrov thing. MS drove into his rear wheel- Petrovs real wheel didn't turn into him... there is no rear wheel steering. Micheal made a mistake and he admitted that.

He also stated his goal for the year was to be as good as his team mate which would have been a great thing. One pushing the other. He's in worse shape than last year. Merc as a whole is in worse shape. Clearly, focusing on qualifying isn't enough as Nico qualified 3rd only to finish 5th - but at least I can believe Nico is squeezing the most out of the car.

I believe the Redbull is in it's own league but between Ferrari, Mclaren and Merc, I don't see the cars being all that different (NOW) and i think the driver can have an impact. Nico is doing that- for whatever reason, Micheal isn't. I sincerely hope he improves but if he doesn't, it would be irresponsible to go into next season with the same line up. Last year, the expectation of what Schumi "might be" was enough to push Nico. Soon, Nico will lose any sense of pressure and that will bad for him and the team. Micheal needs to raise his game or call the ball.

Edited by jav, 10 May 2011 - 22:29.


#9722 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 22:36

He's in worse shape than last year.


seriously? :) come on. did you actually watch him race?
he outraced nico once and lost out two times but that's about it.

his worst race is not that bad at all. one incident in a 21 overtaking maneuvers race. up until the last part of the race he was ~5 sec to Rosberg despite the fist longer pitstop (because of nose change)
obviously stopping on lap 2 and going so much back made things look worse.

#9723 Juan Kerr

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 22:46

seriously? :) come on. did you actually watch him race?
he outraced nico once and lost out two times but that's about it.

his worst race is not that bad at all. one incident in a 21 overtaking maneuvers race. up until the last part of the race he was ~5 sec to Rosberg despite the fist longer pitstop (because of nose change)
obviously stopping on lap 2 and going so much back made things look worse.


Absolutely but don't they all just love bashing Michael Schumacher ? Always looking for an excuse to make sure he absolutely never ever dominates F1 again.
I think its an insecurity, they probably deep down know he's just as quick as the other drivers.

#9724 aditya-now

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 00:09

Reality Strikes For Schumacher
9 May 2011

"We have to be careful when ex drivers of a similar age to Schumacher say that his age has nothing to do with it, as Johnny Herbert has said this week, for instance, or Jacques Villeneuve has said several time. It is in their interests to say that as they are all hoping to get paid well to drive competitive cars in their 40s. I don’t think that Rosberg, Vettel and Hamilton are “better” than Schumcher, they are just better than he is now."

"I don’t go along with people who say that he’s damaging his legacy. He won seven world titles in his prime, no-one can take that away from him. There are one or two problems with his legacy anyway, due to controversies he got himself into, but what’s happening now has no impact on what he achieved before to my mind.

This period of return has simply been an epilogue, which has yet to find its sense of purpose."

http://www.jamesalle...for-schumacher/


Nice and fair article from Allen. The age is surely an issue no matter what the ex-rivals say.



Joe Saward settling accounts with Schumacher as well:

http://joesaward.wor...machers-future/


He focuses exactly on some of the points that bothered me with Schumi:

"Yes, he is the greatest of all time on paper. And there is no other way that such things can be measured, but that does not mean that he is the best of all time in the eyes of everyone. For me there were always too many question marks about him. I did not like his unethical driving moves. I did not like the way he managed his team-mates. I always felt that he would do anything to win – and that is not what I consider to be a good trait. The test of a great sportsman is how they lose, as much as how they win...."

" After a string of interviews trying to see a little of the real person beneath the facade, I gave up trying. It does not matter much if the press likes you if you are good at what you do, but it was how he did things that did not appeal to me. And yet I always felt that there was somewhere in there, a bloke who wanted the world to like him. He can turn on charm when he needs it, of course, but I have to say that I have always been wary of people who can turn it on and off like a light switch....."


´nuff said.



#9725 Raelene

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 00:27

he also stated

As readers of the blog may have surmised I have never been a big Schumacher fan.


he also thinks Tonio is the best thing sinced sliced bread

nuff said

Edited by Raelene, 11 May 2011 - 01:43.


#9726 Birelman

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 00:36

he also started it with saying he's not a Schumacher fan

nuff said..

don't mean to bust your chops, but, non-Schmacher fans have a right to an opinion and it is just as valid as the fan, they both offer a biased view......just sayin....

#9727 baddog

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 01:02

don't mean to bust your chops, but, non-Schmacher fans have a right to an opinion and it is just as valid as the fan, they both offer a biased view......just sayin....

Yes but writing yet another screed in which you pile in smack talking about him every time he has a bad performance.. in joe's (and johnny's for that matter) case for the 500th time.. just makes you look sad and obsessed.

#9728 Birelman

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 01:05

Yes but writing yet another screed in which you pile in smack talking about him every time he has a bad performance.. in joe's (and johnny's for that matter) case for the 500th time.. just makes you look sad and obsessed.

still doesn't minimize the validity of his opinion, however sad and obsessed the person may seem, like it, or not.

#9729 Raelene

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 01:44

don't mean to bust your chops, but, non-Schmacher fans have a right to an opinion and it is just as valid as the fan, they both offer a biased view......just sayin....


exactly - and that's my point...

#9730 jav

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:09

seriously? :) come on. did you actually watch him race?
he outraced nico once and lost out two times but that's about it.

his worst race is not that bad at all. one incident in a 21 overtaking maneuvers race. up until the last part of the race he was ~5 sec to Rosberg despite the fist longer pitstop (because of nose change)
obviously stopping on lap 2 and going so much back made things look worse.



Of course I'm watching and have watched every race. AND - I'm a fan- but one who see's the facts. Last season at this time, he sat at 10 points with 1 retirement a 6th and (2) 10th pl finishes. This season he sits at 6 points with the best finish of 8th place, a 9th a 12th and the same one retirement. He also qualified better last year and made it to Q3 for EVERY one of the first 7 races - placing MUCH higher on the grid to this point in 2010- look it up.

These are the facts and they support that he and the team are in worse shape this year than they were last year at this time with a then admittedly botched car. You tell me what I'm not serious or factual about.

If you want to hear that he "looks" better or has been turning better laps or even that he's had some very good starts- yes I agree. BUT- no one with any analytical sense can say that he or MERC are in better shape this year than they were last year at the same time. They may have more potential but they have yet to deliver. Sorry- I REALLY DO wish it weren't so... but it is what it is.

Edited by jav, 11 May 2011 - 02:22.


#9731 marchi-91

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:20

I love that people are writing Michael off. ****ing love it! He'll make them eat their words atleast once this year. After his quite outstanding race at China where he managed to keep a supremely faster Ferrari of Alonso for nearly 10 laps behind him and Webber for 3 'everybody else struggled for 1' how can you say its been a failure. Meanwhile he supposedly superior team mate bends over at every possible moment to those faster then him.

#9732 Birelman

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:23

I love that people are writing Michael off. ****ing love it! He'll make them eat their words atleast once this year. After his quite outstanding race at China where he managed to keep a supremely faster Ferrari of Alonso for nearly 10 laps behind him and Webber for 3 'everybody else struggled for 1' how can you say its been a failure. Meanwhile he supposedly superior team mate bends over at every possible moment to those faster then him.

oh, is that how it works? whoever finishes miles behind his teammate yet holds a faster car behind wins? No wonder!!!! :drunk:

#9733 jav

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:28

Absolutely but don't they all just love bashing Michael Schumacher ? Always looking for an excuse to make sure he absolutely never ever dominates F1 again.
I think its an insecurity, they probably deep down know he's just as quick as the other drivers.



You're wrong. I'd like nothing better than to have MS dominate again. Look at my old posts- I'm a Schumi fan. But be real- there are extremists on both sides- haters who will never see, and fans who refuse to see in the face of over whelming facts. No one needs an excuse to make sure he doesn't dominate... he and the team are doing that on there own. If he were as quick as other drivers, he'd have more points and Merc wouldn't be 5th behind Renault. It's NOT bashing- it's facts.

#9734 black magic

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:56

the problem with the likes of the reporters struggling to understand michael despite numerous interviews is that they can tsee who is despite him standing right in front of them.

they have always wanted to see some machieavellian character, driven by demons, an arsehole and so on. his detractors love to suggest that his not wanting his team to be anything but organised to his way of thinking as being evidence of inferiority as opposed to what ammounts to the majority attitude. for goodness sake andretti left lotus when pettersen arrived, same with fittipaldi, etc etc.

all he is is a simple guy from very humble backgrounds and initially relatively unsophisticated. he has made errors of judgement but largely only in the heat of battle and not long contemplated. yes he has supreme confidenc in his own ability but name a driver who doesnt. he genuinely loves his wife and kids, has a poor dress sense, is very hard working and very loyal to his team.

sometimes the truth is staring you in the face.

sadly some cant separate the tight jaw and the at time shaughty appearance from the real person

#9735 Wade

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 05:57

I really hope before he retires for good, he gets a podium or heck -- a win. Let it happen please. That would be really great to see.

#9736 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 06:14

Herbert sounds like a total ass with his comments about Schumacher. He honestly sounds like some fanboy in a Hamilton vs Alonso argument. Except that he's an anti-Schumacher one. Anyway, just thought I'd share that I just lost lot of respect for a certain former teammate of Schumacher's.


There is a LOT of bad blood between Herbet and Schumacher, after he was destroyed at benetton in 1995 and treated poorly, so its natural for him to say the nonsense he has about Michael that he is still as good as ever. That's of course ridiculous. Michael should retire though, he is not even at the level of a standard F1 driver anymore, and is making Rosberg look like Fangio.

#9737 arknor

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 06:48

Herbert sounds like a total ass with his comments about Schumacher. He honestly sounds like some fanboy in a Hamilton vs Alonso argument. Except that he's an anti-Schumacher one. Anyway, just thought I'd share that I just lost lot of respect for a certain former teammate of Schumacher's.

herberts an idiot imo..

schumacher never had the speed and drivers are better than they were...

how are alonso , massa , button , webber etc doing so well then? schumacher schooled massa , was at the very least the equal of alonso , webber was pretty much an average driver back in the day and button wasnt seen as much better so the grid getting better than ever constantly imo is total horse crap.

schumacher is obviously knowhere near his peak for me that would have been the late 90's vs hakkinen

#9738 BelgianRaceFan

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 07:16

If i was Michael i would try to continue as long as he can to take the F1 Oldest winners record. :)
http://en.wikipedia....#Oldest_winners

#9739 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 08:07

If i was Michael i would try to continue as long as he can to take the F1 Oldest winners record. :)
http://en.wikipedia....#Oldest_winners

:up: Fully agree. Everything in the name of the records. On another thought , this will cost me much. :rotfl:
Just make some calculations and I found that just writing my posts here took me 11 days. Don't want to think how many months I lost in reading here. No , I am not obsessed.

Edited by ivand911, 11 May 2011 - 08:14.


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#9740 Frans

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 08:53

I call his return; the sacrifice



And i luve it

#9741 BRK

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 09:23

Really didn't see anything this weekend to make it this melodramatic. He had a few scruffy battles with midfield GP2-style banzai drivers he should not have been fighting with in the first place, had good race pace, and pulled off some good moves himself including on on the outside of a turn in the first complex. No big deal.

He was downcast after the race and it's his comments that have got people talking (need something to talk about, I guess) and drawn the termites out of the wood, who cares. I expect to hear opinions from Moss as well, pretty soon.

#9742 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 09:29

Really didn't see anything this weekend to make it this melodramatic. He had a few scruffy battles with midfield GP2-style banzai drivers he should not have been fighting with in the first place, had good race pace, and pulled off some good moves himself including on on the outside of a turn in the first complex. No big deal.

He was downcast after the race and it's his comments that have got people talking (need something to talk about, I guess) and drawn the termites out of the wood, who cares. I expect to hear opinions from Moss as well, pretty soon.


Being outqualified by 1.1 seconds is not a big deal?
Is that how far standards have dropped for Schumacher these days?

#9743 Fortymark

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:06

No but his statements arent right.

Tell me this had Schumacher not retired at the end of 2006 what would have happened? Kimi wouldn't have joined Ferrari and Michael would have won both the 2007 and the 2008 WDC in those cars. He was still a hell of a lot better then Massa in 2006.


There´s absolutely no guarantee that Michael would have won the 2007 and 2008 title for Ferrari if he had stayed.
Alonso already beat him in 2006 despite having an inferior car, and Alonso in the McLaren together with Kimi in such case
would have been a disaster for Schumacher.



#9744 Longtimefan

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:20

I call his return; the sacrifice



And i luve it



Schadenfreude


#9745 BRK

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:29

Being outqualified by 1.1 seconds is not a big deal?
Is that how far standards have dropped for Schumacher these days?


In case you hadn't noticed I was talking about the race and that's what I had in mind when I posted that.

Anyway: if you think a gap of 1.1 seconds and a laptime slower than his Q2 effort - therefore not an indication of his ultimate one lap pace at Turkey by far, including both Q2 and FP3 - is down to the driver alone you need to think again. Running wide and dirty tyres aren't a good enough reason to lose so much time over all sectors, aand he was slower and evidently struggling with the car in throughout qualifying, unlike in free practice 3. If he had improved on his Q2 time but was still a second off you could say he was that much slower, clearly not the case.

#9746 baddog

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:31

There´s absolutely no guarantee that Michael would have won the 2007 and 2008 title for Ferrari if he had stayed.
Alonso already beat him in 2006 despite having an inferior car

lol WUT

Fischella won a race in that car. it dominated a large part of the season. Inferior my ass.

#9747 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:47

lol WUT

Fischella won a race in that car. it dominated a large part of the season. Inferior my ass.


And Massa won a lot more in that Ferrari.

#9748 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:49

In case you hadn't noticed I was talking about the race and that's what I had in mind when I posted that.

Anyway: if you think a gap of 1.1 seconds and a laptime slower than his Q2 effort - therefore not an indication of his ultimate one lap pace at Turkey by far, including both Q2 and FP3 - is down to the driver alone you need to think again. Running wide and dirty tyres aren't a good enough reason to lose so much time over all sectors, aand he was slower and evidently struggling with the car in throughout qualifying, unlike in free practice 3. If he had improved on his Q2 time but was still a second off you could say he was that much slower, clearly not the case.



The races are messy and inconclusive especially when you are stuck midfield and fighting, it makes it impossible to compare pace with Rosberg, with the different strategies and tyres etc. Even his best Q2 effort was 6 tenths slower than Rosberg, so thats embaressing enough anyway. His tyres were not dirty, he just over drove the car and was slow, he even said so.

#9749 Andy865

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:49

And Massa won a lot more in that Ferrari.


EH?

#9750 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:51

EH?


2006 Ferrari, massa won 2 races, which is more than Fisichella won in the Renault that year. He was making the point that Fisichella winning a race was evidence of a great car.

Edited by rommel, 11 May 2011 - 10:51.