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#9751 Fortymark

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:55

lol WUT

Fischella won a race in that car. it dominated a large part of the season. Inferior my ass.


Massa won 2 races, 3 poles and had 5 podiums in the Ferrari
against Fisis 1 win, 1 pole and 4 podiums.
Oh, yes the Ferrari/Bridgestone package was the one to have in 2006.



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#9752 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:00

The races are messy and inconclusive especially when you are stuck midfield and fighting, it makes it impossible to compare pace with Rosberg, with the different strategies and tyres etc. Even his best Q2 effort was 6 tenths slower than Rosberg, so thats embaressing enough anyway. His tyres were not dirty, he just over drove the car and was slow, he even said so.

I can tell you what is embarrassing. Embarrassing is when you are not telling the truth. Check your facts right. Q2 times: Nico 1:25.801 , Michael 1:26.121. Not exactly 0,6 sec, isn't it?


#9753 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:04

I can tell you what is embarrassing. Embarrassing is when you are not telling the truth. Check your facts right. Q2 times: Nico 1:25.801 , Michael 1:26.121. Not exactly 0,6 sec, isn't it?


sorry I was thinking of their best qualifying times. Rosberg managed 25.5 eventually. Even 3 tenths slower is B grade.

#9754 baddog

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:04

Lol and what did massa do in 2007?

#9755 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:07

sorry I was thinking of their best qualifying times. Rosberg managed 25.5 eventually. Even 3 tenths slower is B grade.

You mean better then Webber, Button, Massa grade? In Q2 Michael was closer than them to his team mate. Michael have good Q2 lap on Lewis, Alonso level. What happen in Q3 is mystery for me, bit it was not normal. If he made mistake in his only fast lap, OK I can accept that. Everyone can make mistake. Massa and Heidfeld also didn't do well in their fast lap. Or he have again problem with something like DRS , but team decides not to go public about it. Especially after all talks about RW update. Or probably they didn't have any RW update, they just decided to keep mouth shut if problem arise. This is why Michael was not happy.

Edited by ivand911, 11 May 2011 - 11:17.


#9756 aditya-now

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:18

exactly - and that's my point...


So your point is.....that both your and my POV are biased. DidnĀ“t we know that before?;)

We can agree to disagree - after all those years.


the problem with the likes of the reporters struggling to understand michael despite numerous interviews is that they can tsee who is despite him standing right in front of them.

they have always wanted to see some machieavellian character, driven by demons, an arsehole and so on. his detractors love to suggest that his not wanting his team to be anything but organised to his way of thinking as being evidence of inferiority as opposed to what ammounts to the majority attitude. for goodness sake andretti left lotus when pettersen arrived, same with fittipaldi, etc etc.

all he is is a simple guy from very humble backgrounds and initially relatively unsophisticated. he has made errors of judgement but largely only in the heat of battle and not long contemplated. yes he has supreme confidenc in his own ability but name a driver who doesnt. he genuinely loves his wife and kids, has a poor dress sense, is very hard working and very loyal to his team.

sometimes the truth is staring you in the face.

sadly some cant separate the tight jaw and the at time shaughty appearance from the real person


Yes, it also beats me how reporters and other weirdos like former teammates manage to not understand Michael, after having seen him face to face and talked to him personally, some of them for nearly 20 years, every second weekend. Whereas the casual couch potatoe and internet forum hero AKA fan, who has never seen Schumi or talked to him in person manages to understand what a wonderful person Michael is.

Sometimes truth is staring you in the face.

Edited by aditya-now, 11 May 2011 - 11:31.


#9757 Rinehart

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:19

No but his statements arent right.

Tell me this had Schumacher not retired at the end of 2006 what would have happened? Kimi wouldn't have joined Ferrari and Michael would have won both the 2007 and the 2008 WDC in those cars. He was still a hell of a lot better then Massa in 2006.

The three year break has cost Michael a lot, he lost track of the developments and got out of the rhythem being in F1 and working on the car all day and every time. As Herbert said speedwise he is the same i also believe that, and the competition sure has got better but where is Alonso? Still fighting at the front and Michael was on equel terms (if not better) then Alonso when he retired. It's just a combination of things why it isn't working out like it can. Luck wise he hasn't had much ever since he returned, and when he does get the car to his liking he still is very very fast but it seems hard for him to get it just right.


I think there is evidence that MS was on the slide by 2005 actually. If he didn't win the title in 2006, ts not fair to say that he would have won the titles in 2007 or 2008 anymore than its not fair to say that had Senna not been killed, Schumacher may never have won a title until 1999 at the earliest, assuming Senna had taken the Ferrari deal offered for 1996... Amazing how someones reputation and statistics can be skewed by circumstance...

Its also bollocks to say that the competition is a lot better now. He doesn't have the best car now is the difference.

#9758 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:22

I think there is evidence that MS was on the slide by 2005 actually. If he didn't win the title in 2006, ts not fair to say that he would have won the titles in 2007 or 2008 anymore than its not fair to say that had Senna not been killed, Schumacher may never have won a title until 1999 at the earliest, assuming Senna had taken the Ferrari deal offered for 1996... Amazing how someones reputation and statistics can be skewed by circumstance...

Its also bollocks to say that the competition is a lot better now. He doesn't have the best car now is the difference.


The difference is that he has lost his speed. Even if he had the best car now it would not do him any good because Rosberg would still be dominating him. It is fair to say he would have won the titles in 2007 and 2008 unless you assume he would not have been able to beat Felipe Massa, the same driver he dominated a year earlier.

#9759 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:23

'Fighter' Schumi won't quit
http://www.planetf1....ow-In-The-Towel
Bad news for some people here. :rotfl:
Haug: Schumi will have fun in Spain
http://www.planetf1..../story/6925068/
Maybe Norb know something. Maybe Michael will have new chassis in Barcelona. He will have car equal to Nico's?

Edited by ivand911, 11 May 2011 - 11:26.


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#9760 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:30

'Fighter' Schumi won't quit
http://www.planetf1....ow-In-The-Towel
Bad news for some people here. :rotfl:


Actually bad new for schumacher. More humiliation.

#9761 Hairpin

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:31

Michael is just 4 months younger than Mika Hakkinen. Mika thought he had reached the downslope at 2001. Maybe he reached it earlier. Maybe he never got as high as Michael and it was easier for him to see that competition was closing in. Maybe he was not as hungry for more success as Schumacher. Maybe it was the scary crash in the beginning of the season that made him realize it was time to stop. Still, I am sure that if Mika had felt he was still improving as a driver he would not have stepped off.

Schumacher had an extremely dominant car in the beginning of this century. Maybe he was lead to believe it was all him. He was good, really good, but maybe the car made it less obvious for him that he had in fact peaked. Then, when wins did not come easy no more, he thought it was the car...

I don't really mind him finishing this season, but if Mercedes keep him for 2012 they need to have their collective head examined.

#9762 thrillercd

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:31

Bad news for some people here. :rotfl:


:lol:

#9763 Frans

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:39

I would beg on my bald knees for him to stay in 2012, really.... he cannot leave!!!!


Please mercedes, make him stay!!!!

#9764 Murdoch

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:02



Bad news for some people here. :rotfl:


Yup, his fans....

Edited by Murdoch, 11 May 2011 - 12:03.


#9765 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:09

Bad news for some people here. :rotfl:
Yup, his fans....

Yeah, sure. I prefer him on the race track than to be commentator for TV. Or to see him from time to time on Grand Prix.
Why Schumacher's not done yet
http://plus.autospor...r-not-done-yet/
If somebody read this, can share with us?

What is going wrong with Michael Schumacher?
http://news.bbc.co.u...ne/13347579.stm

Edited by ivand911, 11 May 2011 - 12:30.


#9766 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:35

Autosport article basically says what I myself (and others) pointed out here, that is had he not lost his front wing against Petrov, he'd have ended up in front of Button, having run a better race than the Brit, who was also a three-stopper.

Also made a point about how it might have looked like Schumacher was being ridiculed on track at times, but that was only the consequence of the tire-chasm and not real battles for position.

Then a bit about the misfortunes in previous races/qualifying sessions and about MSC's lack of confidence in approaching turns, due to his DRS issues.

Nothing new, essentially.

Edited by PoliFanAthic, 11 May 2011 - 12:38.


#9767 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:48

Nothing new, essentially.

Thanks.


#9768 Buttoneer

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 13:19

I would beg on my bald knees for him to stay in 2012, really.... he cannot leave!!!!


Please mercedes, make him stay!!!!

Well indeed. Schumie continuing to fight is an interesting experience for all of us. Those who see no wrong in him, will continue to hope that he rises to the top again, while those who do not can continue to hope he fails. It's win-win.

As someone who was both happy to see him back to see how he would do, and at the same time worried for the effect this might have on Rosberg, I feel a little bit torn between both.

I emphatically do not want to see Schumie continue to be trounced regardless of whether it is the car or his ability or poor strategy which gets him there. I'd really like to see the battle much closer because right now, I don't believe even Rosberg is feeling the exhileration of beating a great man. There were a few races late last year where it was close, so it promised a lot for this year. I hope he improves and makes Rosberg work for his money.

#9769 swiniodzik

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 13:54

It's clear that Schumacher is notoriously struggling in qualifying but his race pace is better. That suggest he's kept himself in great shape physically and the body isn't the problem, the brain is. Lauda said that when you're driving automatically you're quick but once you need to think about what you're doing a bit more, you're not gonna be as quick anymore as when things were coming naturally to you. It seems like Michael just doesn't have that automatic mental edge in him anymore that allowed him to pull off stuff like Hungary '98, but there's no shame in that. Actually, the average qualifying gap between team-mates at Mercedes last year was only a tenth of a second bigger than at McLaren, so not bad at all.

I agree with the poster who said that his biggest problem today seems to be his attitude. It seems as if he believes he can be a match for Rosberg in terms of raw speed despite the evidence for that just not being there, and as a result over-drives the car over a single lap and hence under-performs in qualifying and it's often a vicious cycle from there as he has to start from the midfield where usually most incidents happen. He should do what Prost did against Senna, accept that qualifying is a lost battle and focus on trying to out-race the faster youngster through some clever driving with the help of a good strategy, more race-oriented setup etc.

If he can do that, I think he could give the faster Rosberg a good fight in terms of points gathering. Sure, when the come-back was announced the expectations from both the outside and the man himself were much higher, but if at 42 he puts up a good fight against a highly-rated 25-year-old competitior near his prime, that would be very respectable and could only strengthen his legacy in the eyes of many.

#9770 as65p

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 15:32

He should do what Prost did against Senna, accept that qualifying is a lost battle and focus on trying to out-race the faster youngster through some clever driving with the help of a good strategy, more race-oriented setup etc.


The ability to do that, like Prost to Senna, or Lauda earlier to Prost, or to an extent even Button to Hamilton, is a great and genereally undervalued asset. Frankly I don't see the slightest hint that Schumacher would ever be capable of it.

#9771 Bleu

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 16:50

Massa won 2 races, 3 poles and had 5 podiums in the Ferrari
against Fisis 1 win, 1 pole and 4 podiums.
Oh, yes the Ferrari/Bridgestone package was the one to have in 2006.


It was real two-phase season. Let's split the season into two halves and see how Ferrari and Renault drivers scored:

First nine races (Bahrain to Canada)
Alonso 84 (6 wins)
Schumacher 59 (2 wins)
Fisichella 37 (1 win)
Massa 28

Last nine races (USA to Brazil)
Schumacher 62 (5 wins)
Massa 52 (2 wins)
Alonso 50 (1 win)
Fisichella 35


#9772 Sakae

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 16:55

The ability to do that, like Prost to Senna, or Lauda earlier to Prost, or to an extent even Button to Hamilton, is a great and genereally undervalued asset. Frankly I don't see the slightest hint that Schumacher would ever be capable of it.

Michael through-out his career always was planning his race strategy as soon as he hit the track for FP. How you can make today a such claim as you did? Do you know actually anything about the man and his past?

Edited by Sakae, 11 May 2011 - 16:55.


#9773 Boxerevo

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 17:09

Michael through-out his career always was planning his race strategy as soon as he hit the track for FP. How you can make today a such claim as you did? Do you know actually anything about the man and his past?

Michael never was the slower one in the team.

Now he is the slower trying to beat the faster team mate,a new challenge about strategy.


#9774 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 17:47

I think his Q3 strategy have to be, one early stint to record good time. He will be much relax , when he know that he have chance for another stint, so less pressure. This is what Vettel and Webber,Lewis ,Alonso did the last time. It was right strategy. If his time is good he can save one set of tyres, if not he will make another stint, having good position already. I think better starting position for him is more important than one new set of soft tyres.

Edited by ivand911, 11 May 2011 - 17:49.


#9775 Sakae

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 17:58

If his car is sliding on the tarmack in turns, he has to get that fix, otherwise there is no racing per se for him.

#9776 Murdoch

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:04

I think his Q3 strategy have to be, one early stint to record good time. He will be much relax , when he know that he have chance for another stint, so less pressure. This is what Vettel and Webber,Lewis ,Alonso did the last time. It was right strategy. If his time is good he can save one set of tyres, if not he will make another stint, having good position already. I think better starting position for him is more important than one new set of soft tyres.


Do you think no one told him to set a good first time in Q3?

Do you think he wasn't trying to set a good time in Q3?

If only he 'tried' to get a good time. Can someone text or e-mail him? Is he on twitter? Someone needs to tell him before its too late.....

This thread is awesome!

#9777 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:08

Do you think no one told him to set a good first time in Q3?
Do you think he wasn't trying to set a good time in Q3?
If only he 'tried' to get a good time. Can someone text or e-mail him? Is he on twitter? Someone needs to tell him before its too late.....
This thread is awesome!

I am talking about early stint(to set a good first time) ,not in the end like they/he did. Apparently nobody tell him to set early good time, and to have time for another stint. So unfortunate that I don't know his email. :rotfl: And thread is about his problems too, because apparently he have some problems with one Q3 stint only. But, I don't see him reacting to this. From four drivers with late stint strategy only Nico preformed well; Michael ,Heidfeld and Massa blow it.

Edited by ivand911, 11 May 2011 - 18:22.


#9778 BJHF1

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:11

Do you think no one told him to set a good first time in Q3?

Do you think he wasn't trying to set a good time in Q3?

If only he 'tried' to get a good time. Can someone text or e-mail him? Is he on twitter? Someone needs to tell him before its too late.....

This thread is awesome!


He's not saying it's an issue of trying or not - Rather that it could be an issue of performing under pressure (by waiting until the last minutes of Q3 to do his run).

On another note - It's really going to see by ineresting to see how Schumacher responds to the poor showing he had last weekend. I'm sure he will be putting himself under immense pressure to step his game up at the next race, as he probably feels as tough he's in a do or die situation, with the excuses running out and his team mate continuing to show his dominance (something Schumacher probably is probably having a hard time fathoming...which is good in a way).

Edited by BJHF1, 11 May 2011 - 18:19.


#9779 primer

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:17

Schumacher's current struggles show us just how much F1 drivers depend on their car for success. An average driver can win WDC provided you put him in the quickest car. If Schumacher had a tier one team-mate during his time at Ferrari, very likely he might not have won a single WDC with them.

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#9780 BJHF1

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:23

Schumacher's current struggles show us just how much F1 drivers depend on their car for success. An average driver can win WDC provided you put him in the quickest car. If Schumacher had a tier one team-mate during his time at Ferrari, very likely he might not have won a single WDC with them.


That's rubbish. There's no point in comparing a 42 year old Michael to what his abilities were in his peak/prime (probably just prior to 2000). To try and pass judgment on Michael's ability as a 2nd rate driver in his prime, is pure and unfounded speculation really....especially given all of his epic drives in less than top shelf machinery.

Edited by BJHF1, 11 May 2011 - 18:30.


#9781 Massa_f1

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:23

Micheal likes his car to slide around alot. The thing is i dont think modern f1 cars get there pace from doing that. You need to be on the throttle as much as u can and have the car on rails. All i ever see when on board with Schumacher is a constant fight with the car.

#9782 BJHF1

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:27

The thing is, he isn't controlling the sliding with any accuracy. He just seems to lack feel for the car particularly during corner entry, and often looks a bit lost and sluggish with his corrections.

Edited by BJHF1, 11 May 2011 - 18:28.


#9783 MightyMoose

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:28

Schumacher's current struggles show us just how much F1 drivers depend on their car for success. An average driver can win WDC provided you put him in the quickest car. If Schumacher had a tier one team-mate during his time at Ferrari, very likely he might not have won a single WDC with them.


You're entitled to your opinion of course, but seriously if you believe that then you're going to be in the minority over anybody who has followed F1 for more than the past 5 years.

Schumacher did things with average cars that others couldn't come close to matching, when he did get the quickest car then he just dominated - 2002 & 2004 spring to mind.


#9784 Tardis40

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:34

Schumacher's current struggles show us just how much F1 drivers depend on their car for success. An average driver can win WDC provided you put him in the quickest car. If Schumacher had a tier one team-mate during his time at Ferrari, very likely he might not have won a single WDC with them.


Michael created a whole new definition of what a "Tier One" driver consists of. He raised the bar substantially.

#9785 BRK

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:40

What happens if he's fine at Barcelona and is quickest of all behind the Red Bulls?

I'd like to know what it is that seems to go wrong with his setups between FP3 and Qualifying. Happens frequently to him but it's happened to Rosberg on a couple of occasions as well, so it's nothing to do with the driver.

#9786 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:46

What happens if he's fine at Barcelona and is quickest of all behind the Red Bulls?

:love: :cat: :up: :clap: :stoned:


#9787 jav

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 18:48

Ivan makes a good point and it might help. Having time for a second chnace lap might make the first lap less stressed (over-driving not necessary) and if that lap is good- he's done. If not, there's time for another go. My point is that even if MS needs or benefits from this, it's yet another indicator that he's not on Nico's level. Perhaps he still has all his talent and reflexes but can no longer deal with pressure - I don't know the cause but there is no denying that he's just not getting the results.

It seems other reasonable minded fans are coming around. He's just not consistently close enough to Rosberg to be pushing him and thereby helping himself, nico or the team.

Merc has some blame here and the car has been a disappointment until China. It seems the more time the factory has to help, the worse they do. We saw it last year while they were actively developing W01- they mostly lost ground relative to the field. After they gave up on the season, they actually did better. This year- same thing. They looked horrible after all their extra time put in early last year. The first 2 races this year were worse than the first 2 races last year and THAT car was known to be flawed.

They go to China with little or no prep...the equipment in transit for much of the 5 day break and Nico finishes 3rd in a cobbled up car? Could it be that we turned a corner??? The factory gets the car for 3 weeks and they show up in Turkey with better qualifying BUT- BOTH drivers go backwards in the race. They can't run the option tires heavy without blistering ? Who did tire analysis in practice? Why did they abandon practicing and setting up for heavy race conditions, one of the main reasons given for China's success?

#9788 BRK

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 19:02

:love: :cat: :up: :clap: :stoned:


It's certainly a possibility, isn't it? That might bring some of our theories to a grinding halt for a while, though the one about mysterious issues between free practice and qualifying will likely continue.

#9789 BRK

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 19:06

They go to China with little or no prep...the equipment in transit for much of the 5 day break and Nico finishes 3rd in a cobbled up car? Could it be that we turned a corner??? The factory gets the car for 3 weeks and they show up in Turkey with better qualifying BUT- BOTH drivers go backwards in the race. They can't run the option tires heavy without blistering ? Who did tire analysis in practice? Why did they abandon practicing and setting up for heavy race conditions, one of the main reasons given for China's success?


There's a lot of inconsistency of form with this team, more so than with any of the other top three teams, and it's the case with both drivers. Perhaps it's affected Schumacher more than it has Rosberg as he's used to approaching a weekend differently, I don't know. But there has to be an underlying cause within the race team that needs to be identified and weeded out soon.

Edited by BRK, 11 May 2011 - 19:06.


#9790 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 19:08

When we talk about pressure, I think they feel/have different kind of pressure. And level of pressure is different. Nico have only pressure from one lap performance(he have Michael under control until now). Michael have this(one lap) plus fans,team, everybody expectations, not getting well with the car/tyres pressure, pressure from Nico(from this and last season results), personal pressure, other pressure. For me he have 3-4-7 times or more pressure on his shoulders than Nico. So, bigger chance of errors. As I said other drivers like Massa and Heidfeld also didn't cope with pressure well. Nico is very good in this(Qualy performance), as he is not so good at his starts. There is pressure at the start, but somehow Michael managed it very well.
Yes, there is possibility Michael to have very good Qualy in Barcelona.

Edited by ivand911, 11 May 2011 - 19:10.


#9791 Sakae

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 19:09

On his personal site he stated that car was unstable in turns (sliding). Since that happened to me too once (not in F1), I know precisely how that (s***e) feels.

Edited by Sakae, 11 May 2011 - 19:09.


#9792 ivand911

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 19:17

On his personal site he stated that car was unstable in turns (sliding). Since that happened to me too once (not in F1), I know precisely how that (s***e) feels.

from Mark Hughes article:
"What happened in the top-10 shoot-out was that Schumacher messed up his one lap and Rosberg did not.

Schumacher took too much speed into Turn One - just as he did in 2006. That pulled him out wide on the exit, he got dust on his tyres and that impacted upon the rest of his lap.

"Looking at the data, we can see Michael had considerably less tyre grip through most of that lap than he'd enjoyed previously," said team principal Ross Brawn.

"It takes a long time for the tyres to recover when you get off line."

That was what was responsible for probably around 80% of the one second chasm between the two Mercedes drivers in their final qualifying times.

Because the team had committed to single-lap runs, that deficit was frozen and goes down in the records.

Yes, it was Schumacher who ran wide and Rosberg who did not, suggesting perhaps that Schumacher's pace was coming with less ease than Rosberg's, but the genuine performance gap between them had they each performed to their potential was in the order of 0.2secs - around half the gap between the Red Bull drivers on the front row, for example."
Maybe going off he got dust and marbles on his tyres.
I personally after the race in Turkey picked some marbles for myself from turn 1. I think they become fans attraction.


#9793 DutchCruijff

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 19:24

Pressure and Schumacher is a weird one, on the face it, 7 X WDC? Pressure, what pressure? But the extract below (Jock Clear's view) is interesting - bitterness and bias clouding his judgement? Not so sure.

‘Jacques and I worked out quite early on that Michael would lose if you put him under a huge amount of pressure, ‘ said Clear, speaking in early 2007. ‘He lost the 1998 world championship to Hakkinen by stalling on the grid. I mean who stalls on the grid for heaven’s sake?

‘It’s that kind of situation where he knows he’s not very good and he does everything he possibly can do to avoid ever being in that situation. Jerez was one of those rare occasions when it was down to ‘me against you’ for the title, on the track. Adelaide was another one, Damon put him under pressure, he lost concentration and hit the wall. In those situations he knows he’s not very good and his coping strategy for that situation is ‘I know I’m going to f** it up but I’ll still come out the winner.’ Adelaide was the right result for him because he won.

‘Jerez was another occasion, he knew he was asleep and he had made a mistake and he knew that Jacques was going to beat him. And he thought, ‘I don’t care what people say, I’m still going to walk away from this one the winner and people will say that even when I get it wrong I still win, so I am unbeatable.’ Because if he had allowed a reputation to develop for being beaten when you put him under pressure, then he’s eroded. But at Jerez it didn’t work and Jacques did beat him and that probably irks him more than any other failure he’s ever had. And it’s astonishing that having had all that time to think about it and come to terms with it, he then did it again in Monaco.’*

Edited by DutchCruijff, 11 May 2011 - 19:25.


#9794 primer

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 20:13

Michael created a whole new definition of what a "Tier One" driver consists of.

His success was down to weak team-mates and a strong car. That's not tier one racing driver stuff, but perhaps a tier-one political animal who can engineer such favorable position for himself in a team. He has achieved similar political success at Mercedes: even though he is the slower of the two driver the team focus all attention on making him quicker.

He raised the bar substantially.

For the first time in his career he has been paired next to a semi-decent driver (Rosberg), and all he has done so far is lower the bar for all tier-two drivers on the grid.

#9795 MightyMoose

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 20:16

His success was down to weak team-mates and a strong car. That's not tier one racing driver stuff, but perhaps a tier-one political animal who can engineer such favorable position for himself in a team. He has achieved similar political success at Mercedes: even though he is the slower of the two driver the team focus all attention on making him quicker.


For the first time in his career he has been paired next to a semi-decent driver (Rosberg), and all he has done so far is lower the bar for all tier-two drivers on the grid.


Primer is doing his best to remove all credibility to his postings. Nothing like providing clear evidence of your hatred & bias towards a driver is there?


#9796 rommel

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 20:32

His success was down to weak team-mates and a strong car. That's not tier one racing driver stuff, but perhaps a tier-one political animal who can engineer such favorable position for himself in a team. He has achieved similar political success at Mercedes: even though he is the slower of the two driver the team focus all attention on making him quicker.


For the first time in his career he has been paired next to a semi-decent driver (Rosberg), and all he has done so far is lower the bar for all tier-two drivers on the grid.



Rubens was not and is not a weak driver, and in the late 90s, did more to impress than Rosberg has ever done. He had a number of great drives and finishes in midfield cars, and even near the end of his career he pushed Button to the wire in 2009 for the world championship. Rosbeg has yet to prove he is even as good as Rubens was, and I don't think he is actually. The driver levels have not changed execept for a few more special talents but overall there will always be the barrichellos, buttons, rosbergs, trullis, fisichelllas

#9797 Hairpin

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 20:59

I see there is references to Johnny Herbert here, and what he said about Schumi.

Among other things he say:

"Schumacher has not lost any of his skill - the new generation of young drivers are just better than him.
It is a case that the level required to win in F1 has gone up and he is not at that standard anymore."


I saw a rerun of a race in a WW Scirocco cup today. Johnny was driving, He was not at that standard anymore.

Edited by Hairpin, 11 May 2011 - 21:01.


#9798 Murdoch

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 21:01

[quote name='BJHF1' date='May 11 2011, 19:11' post='5014886']
He's not saying it's an issue of trying or not - Rather that it could be an issue of performing under pressure (by waiting until the last minutes of Q3 to do his run).


Sorry mate but you completly missed my point....

#9799 Hacklerf

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 21:04

I dont know why people have to hate, we should enjoy the things Michael gives, because he is a special driver and has much to offer still, so what if Nico is faster? Nico isnt a shit driver, and to be out paced by him, at his age is no shame, infact, one must look at it and ask perhaps why Nico isnt further up the road.

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#9800 primer

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 21:07

Nothing like providing clear evidence of your hatred & bias towards a driver is there?

Saying water is wet does not mean I hate water. And bias? Only biased people keep hoping/dreaming/masturbating that Schumacher will show them his 'masterclass', next race. Shame that race never comes.

In general I am not supportive of drivers who are waste of an F1 seat, I'd much rather that seat go to some unproven rookie (who might also not be good, but you won't know unless you give them an opportunity). F1 has this tendency to accumulate too much old crud as far as drivers are concerned, it is not merely Schumacher who is slow, useless and wasting a seat right now in F1.