Jump to content


Photo

Michael Schumacher (merged)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
20789 replies to this topic

#9951 Henrytheeigth

Henrytheeigth
  • Member

  • 4,655 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 17 May 2011 - 17:18

France 2004 and the four-stopper comes to mind as well. I still can't figure out how he managed that one.


The sHort pit lane helped alot, and it was great that that happened. Love and miss those bridgestone tyres for the Ferrari. Yea what a great race that was!

Advertisement

#9952 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,926 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 17 May 2011 - 17:26

Dont forget the 1996 Spanish GP. He had to get off the mark when coming to Ferrari, and as Hill lost his head, Schumi kept his.

Then there is and China 2006. Brazil was also a really good drive, even though he got a puncture.

I miss you in red, schumi :cry:

Edited by SCUDmissile, 17 May 2011 - 17:27.


#9953 Augurk

Augurk
  • Member

  • 1,932 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 17 May 2011 - 17:36

I think there never has been more pressure on him (or any driver) than in the last part of the 2000 season. 21 years of championless Ferrari history, all the tifosi, his own fans around the world, everything was hanging on him. He had to deliver. And he did.

Edited by Augurk, 17 May 2011 - 17:36.


#9954 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 17 May 2011 - 17:44

I think there never has been more pressure on him (or any driver) than in the last part of the 2000 season. 21 years of championless Ferrari history, all the tifosi, his own fans around the world, everything was hanging on him. He had to deliver. And he did.

I think in 2010 and 2011 he felt much more pressure than any time before. Or 41-42 year old guy can't handle the pressure like when he was 29-31 year old.


#9955 Skanka

Skanka
  • Member

  • 95 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 17 May 2011 - 17:47

I think there never has been more pressure on him (or any driver) than in the last part of the 2000 season. 21 years of championless Ferrari history, all the tifosi, his own fans around the world, everything was hanging on him. He had to deliver. And he did.


Yup. Monza 2000, Suzuka 2000 and Monza 2003 are for me one of the best examples of how well Schumacher could handle the pressure and deliver stunning performances.

#9956 Augurk

Augurk
  • Member

  • 1,932 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 17 May 2011 - 17:51

I think in 2010 and 2011 he felt much more pressure than any time before. Or 41-42 year old guy can't handle the pressure like when he was 29-31 year old.

I don't think so. He's been so relaxed all throughout last year, and the beginning of this year. Only in Turkey I saw him being agitated.

#9957 BMW4life

BMW4life
  • Member

  • 740 posts
  • Joined: August 03

Posted 17 May 2011 - 17:57

I had completely forgotten about that one. Add it to the list.


Monza, 2003, qualifying especially!

#9958 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 17 May 2011 - 18:06

I think in 2010 and 2011 he felt much more pressure than any time before. Or 41-42 year old guy can't handle the pressure like when he was 29-31 year old.

How was that demonstrated? I haven't seen him crying in a lonely corner somewhere behind the building.

#9959 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 17 May 2011 - 18:27

How was that demonstrated? I haven't seen him crying in a lonely corner somewhere behind the building.

I doubt we will see anybody crying, ever. In one moment last year he said that cars were not the same and Haug confirm this, for me this was one moment when he just didn't wanted to keep this inside him anymore. There was also a lot of not happy interviews. When he was very tense. Expectations this year and last year, a not lower than in 2000. In 1997-2004 he was sure in his car, if he didn't perform well nobody will tell him to retire. Last year he hear this almost every race. Now after 4th race it is the same. It is pressure from everywhere. Not getting well with the car only aggravate the situation. So ,I don't think anything he have in Ferrari could be worse. He have good car, good team around him. All depended on him. Last year and this year not everything depend on him. We see a lot of stupid strategies, car problems, car "not the same", own mistakes. No way this will improve his belief in the car or himself or the team. I see the things this way.

Edited by ivand911, 17 May 2011 - 18:28.


Advertisement

#9960 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 17 May 2011 - 19:51

I do agree that he was not happy about Turkey; he stated so on his website. I would be rather careful to conclude that he is ready to hang his helmet, or that his resolve is any lower than before. In fact, I do suspect that his resolve went notch north. We will see.



#9961 F1 Tor.

F1 Tor.
  • Member

  • 2,832 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 17 May 2011 - 20:39

If he gets a podium or two this year, I expect a lot of people to shut the $%^ up. He deserves the criticism he's getting, but I doubt half the haters here would man up and respect a great result, if it were to happen. Fin. :wave:

#9962 Muz Bee

Muz Bee
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 17 May 2011 - 21:04

I do agree that he was not happy about Turkey; he stated so on his website. I would be rather careful to conclude that he is ready to hang his helmet, or that his resolve is any lower than before. In fact, I do suspect that his resolve went notch north. We will see.

Agreed. Although very unconvinced about his career 2010/11 I think he has been stronger this year than last if you allow for one really poor race weekend at Turkey. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets near to Nico in Spain.

#9963 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 17 May 2011 - 22:00

If he gets a podium or two this year, I expect a lot of people to shut the $%^ up. He deserves the criticism he's getting, but I doubt half the haters here would man up and respect a great result, if it were to happen. Fin. :wave:

I'm a hater, and I have inmense respect for him, but that respect is quickly going down. His performance last year was pretty much what I expected of him, but this year he's been way sub-par so far

#9964 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 17 May 2011 - 22:48

How you can hate and respect someone at the same time? How does that works? I did not find MM very apealing on many fronts, but I respected certain knowledge he had on procedural matters at FIA. I do not like a few people, but hate them? That's pretty strong word, unless you use it losely. In MS case I think some people just grew into that "hate" role over the years, but today would have difficult time to rationally explain it.

Edited by Sakae, 17 May 2011 - 22:49.


#9965 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 17 May 2011 - 23:08

How you can hate and respect someone at the same time? How does that works? I did not find MM very apealing on many fronts, but I respected certain knowledge he had on procedural matters at FIA. I do not like a few people, but hate them? That's pretty strong word, unless you use it losely. In MS case I think some people just grew into that "hate" role over the years, but today would have difficult time to rationally explain it.

LOL why are you so literal!! How can you hate someone you don't even know. I'd consider myself anti-schumacher, but hater seems to be the going term for us right now, so I used it to describe myself LOL sorry to confuse you there! :drunk:

Ok now that I don't hate him, can I respect? lol

#9966 black magic

black magic
  • Member

  • 3,860 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 18 May 2011 - 02:44

I accept baddog that clear is ientitled to his opnion.

like you though I believe it was silly and based on a clear long term antagonism because clear sdriver was forever struggling to beat schumacher.

I think for every example clear managed I could could come up with an example equally where despite pressure schumacher delivered.

is there a sportsman who has never failed under pressure? I mean isnt that the definition of what pressure really means. it is partly defined by its results.

eg bradman failing in his final test, tendulkar in the recent world cup. clear pressure situations but equally athlete fails to deliver. did they "crack" under the pressure or merely make a mistake. its rather arbitary and schumachers vulnerability was always one of those things that those who had to compete against the guy consoled themselves - that if only they could put him under rpessure he'd crack. it made it more attainable as a goal to beat the guy



#9967 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,755 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 18 May 2011 - 09:26

I accept baddog that clear is ientitled to his opnion.

like you though I believe it was silly and based on a clear long term antagonism because clear sdriver was forever struggling to beat schumacher.

I think for every example clear managed I could could come up with an example equally where despite pressure schumacher delivered.

is there a sportsman who has never failed under pressure? I mean isnt that the definition of what pressure really means. it is partly defined by its results.

eg bradman failing in his final test, tendulkar in the recent world cup. clear pressure situations but equally athlete fails to deliver. did they "crack" under the pressure or merely make a mistake. its rather arbitary and schumachers vulnerability was always one of those things that those who had to compete against the guy consoled themselves - that if only they could put him under rpessure he'd crack. it made it more attainable as a goal to beat the guy

very smart points
is there a sportsman that has been under so much pressure-deciding fights to see if he cracks or not?

alonso crashed in japan 07-> lost the title there, hamilton lost the title with 2 races to go and an 18 point lead, vettel crashed into a bunch of people trying to pass.

everybody cracks under pressure, the thing is some get under pressure more often than others...

#9968 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 09:43

I hope Clear will stay at factory this time. He is bringing Michael bad luck. :p

#9969 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,326 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 09:46

Well, it doesn't look like he is wrong now and I'm sure he's having a bit of a chuckle to himself inside Mercedes because Schumacher has come back to prove him right. You look at what happens when Schumacher gets put under real pressure where he can't avoid it and the guy cracks.

1. Crashed into a wall when being chased by Damon Hill and was lucky to get away with it.

2. Crashes into Villeneuve and comes off worse when he came under pressure.

3. Got desperate at Monaco in 2006.

4. Petrov comes past in his Renault and he tries to stop him from getting past when the move was done. Loses his front wing.

The difference now is that the desperation is coming thick and fast, and the more desperate he becomes the further back he seems to go.



Schumacher can't be perfect, everybody failed under pressure, EVERYBODY. Why you don't talk about the race who Schumacher won under massive pressure ? Imola 2003 ? Monza 98 ? Barcelona 96 ?Monza 96 ?

What is your point ? Why you **** up this thread ?

#9970 britishtrident

britishtrident
  • Member

  • 1,954 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:07

Schumacher can't be perfect, everybody failed under pressure, EVERYBODY. Why you don't talk about the race who Schumacher won under massive pressure ? Imola 2003 ? Monza 98 ? Barcelona 96 ?Monza 96 ?

What is your point ? Why you **** up this thread ?


With that attitude I think you should request this thread is moved to the Nostalgia Forum but there you would have to take flak from admirers of truly great drivers with untarnished records like Nuvolari, Fangio, Moss, Clark and Mario Andretti, alternatively start a new thread entitled "Schumacher Cult Members Only".





#9971 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:09

With that attitude I think you should request this thread is moved to the Nostalgia Forum but there you would have to take flak from admirers of truly great drivers with untarnished records like Nuvolari, Fangio, Moss, Clark and Mario Andretti, alternatively start a new thread entitled "Schumacher Cult Members Only".

:up:
thinking like this nearly all time reading in this thread. :drunk:

#9972 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,697 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:14

Just let it be Sunday already!

#9973 arknor

arknor
  • Member

  • 2,298 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:17

I doubt we will see anybody crying, ever

mika hakkinen cried

#9974 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:31

I hope Clear will stay at factory this time. He is bringing Michael bad luck. :p


Does it matter for the speed of Miachael?

reflecting, one thing I fear is that Michael Schumacher finally wins a GP and all over sudden his instinct wakes up and wew see the giant again... Amen for this ...

#9975 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:37

Does it matter for the speed of Miachael?

reflecting, one thing I fear is that Michael Schumacher finally wins a GP and all over sudden his instinct wakes up and wew see the giant again... Amen for this ...

Amen.

Schumacher can't be perfect, everybody failed under pressure, EVERYBODY. Why you don't talk about the race who Schumacher won under massive pressure ? Imola 2003 ? Monza 98 ? Barcelona 96 ?Monza 96 ?
What is your point ? Why you **** up this thread ?

And some people failed even without pressure. A lot of them actually. :p

Edited by ivand911, 18 May 2011 - 12:40.


#9976 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,042 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:40

One cannot help but wonder if Nico Rosberg would be even quicker if he had a a more competitive guy in the number 2 driver seat.


The writing´s on the wall - Paul di Resta in the #2 seat, which will keep Nico more honest than he expects - next year.

As for Michael, they will find some befitting role for him, ambassador of the sport, greatest racer of all time, and have him drive the Mercedes car for some show cases. Of course, this will not be what Michael considers "fun", but, what shall he do? Driving in F1 isn't fun for him either right now. Maybe best he returns to amateur motorcycle racing....


#9977 ed24f1

ed24f1
  • Member

  • 973 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:44

I wonder if the off-throttle exhaust gases are what hurt Schumacher in qualifying last weekend?

He was going fine in FP3, but when they turned the system to somewhere close to 100%, it completely changed the drivability of the car, and Schumacher couldn't adapt fast enough.

#9978 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:47

I wonder if the off-throttle exhaust gases are what hurt Schumacher in qualifying last weekend?
He was going fine in FP3, but when they turned the system to somewhere close to 100%, it completely changed the drivability of the car, and Schumacher couldn't adapt fast enough.

Stop it. :rotfl: Now some guys here will say that he called his old buddy to arrange certain things for him. That all this "off-throttle exhaust gases saga" started from Michael. And FIA ban it because of him.

Edited by ivand911, 18 May 2011 - 12:50.


#9979 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,042 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:49

Please avoid discussion of Schumi v Senna please.


That would be going down memory lane far, very far....

It's great we have Schumi in the field right now for what he is, a symbol and a connecting link between the times of Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet and the times of Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, which is a most amazing feat in itself. That is IMHO his real achievement right now, to span so many eras and still be there, partially even competitive.

At the same time it is clear that he doesn't cut it anymore and he also doesn't have fun anymore. Of course, that could change were he to drive a Red Bull and had his team mate contractually at bay, like it used to be. In this case, Schumi would not only be winning races, but the WDC as well. Alas, alas, he has more than exhausted his good karma in this respect, probably for the next few incarnations....




Advertisement

#9980 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:53

The writing´s on the wall - Paul di Resta in the #2 seat, which will keep Nico more honest than he expects - next year.

As for Michael, they will find some befitting role for him, ambassador of the sport, greatest racer of all time, and have him drive the Mercedes car for some show cases. Of course, this will not be what Michael considers "fun", but, what shall he do? Driving in F1 isn't fun for him either right now. Maybe best he returns to amateur motorcycle racing....

I think Di Resta might keep Nico more than honest, I think he'll be kickin the living crap out of Nico, really.

#9981 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:54

I wonder if the off-throttle exhaust gases are what hurt Schumacher in qualifying last weekend?

He was going fine in FP3, but when they turned the system to somewhere close to 100%, it completely changed the drivability of the car, and Schumacher couldn't adapt fast enough.

LOL

#9982 ed24f1

ed24f1
  • Member

  • 973 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 12:57

LOL


The last sentence was probably poorly worded, in that it came across as fact when it was supposed to be a hypothetical.

Many others have commented on how this system has changed the dynamics between Vettel and Webber.



#9983 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 18 May 2011 - 13:06

The last sentence was probably poorly worded, in that it came across as fact when it was supposed to be a hypothetical.

Many others have commented on how this system has changed the dynamics between Vettel and Webber.

actually, what I found funny was the first sentence, but, ok :)

#9984 ed24f1

ed24f1
  • Member

  • 973 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 13:34

actually, what I found funny was the first sentence, but, ok :)


It does sound a little like a foaming fanboy's excuses, but it wasn't intended to be that way.

It just seemed unusual, for any driver, that there was such a big gap between practice and qualifying performance. And now we have further details of a system which teams experiment with in qualifying, and potentially changes the handling of the car. I was just maybe linking some dots with a long bow (and that's enough cliches for now)

Maybe he just choked...

#9985 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 18 May 2011 - 13:56

It does sound a little like a foaming fanboy's excuses, but it wasn't intended to be that way.

It just seemed unusual, for any driver, that there was such a big gap between practice and qualifying performance. And now we have further details of a system which teams experiment with in qualifying, and potentially changes the handling of the car. I was just maybe linking some dots with a long bow (and that's enough cliches for now)

Maybe he just choked...

Well, Ockham's Razor man!

It may just be he failed to harness his speed in Q3, completely understandable given his age and all.

#9986 Frans

Frans
  • Member

  • 7,701 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 18 May 2011 - 14:03

Excuses excuses excuses....... Bring on Barcelona.

I am for 90% sure, there will be more excuses.... wanna bet?

#9987 DutchCruijff

DutchCruijff
  • Member

  • 933 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 18 May 2011 - 14:10

Prediction for MSC at Barcelona? Top 6 qualifying - top 6 race finish.

#9988 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 18 May 2011 - 14:11

Prediction for MSC at Barcelona? Top 6 qualifying - top 6 race finish.

That's at least what he's "supposed" to do if he does it right......

#9989 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • In the running for best OP of 2014

  • 3,369 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 18 May 2011 - 14:23

Prediction for MSC at Barcelona? Top 6 qualifying - top 6 race finish.

As a working prediction I have him in the Top 10 for both sessions. Very bold, I know. :p I'll refine it more when we see the times from Friday Practice.

#9990 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,326 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 14:43

11 in quali, great start, and 7or 8 in race

#9991 Andy865

Andy865
  • Member

  • 2,447 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 14:46

11 in quali, great start, and 7or 8 in race


Really? I think they will be top 6 quali.

#9992 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 14:52

Top 4 in the race.

#9993 SparkPlug

SparkPlug
  • Member

  • 491 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 15:00

I think Di Resta might keep Nico more than honest, I think he'll be kickin the living crap out of Nico, really.

Thats a bold statement to make. Your assumption is based on, what exactly ?


#9994 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 18 May 2011 - 15:04

As a working prediction I have him in the Top 10 for both sessions. Very bold, I know. :p I'll refine it more when we see the times from Friday Practice.

This FP performance is not working for him - that's the record until now in 2011. I wonder who is really involved in his race set-up, because the Sat/Sund results calls for the Interpol to get involved.

#9995 ed24f1

ed24f1
  • Member

  • 973 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 15:25

Well, Ockham's Razor man!

It may just be he failed to harness his speed in Q3, completely understandable given his age and all.


Yes, and it wouldn't be the first time that had happened.

Monaco will be a big test of where his mental side is at, I think.

#9996 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • In the running for best OP of 2014

  • 3,369 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 18 May 2011 - 15:49

This FP performance is not working for him - that's the record until now in 2011. I wonder who is really involved in his race set-up, because the Sat/Sund results calls for the Interpol to get involved.

Well, between the times Schumacher and Rosberg set, I'm planning to get an idea of the pace that the W02's new upgrades will give (if any) before I conclude anything more than a Top 10 qualification and finish--so Friday pace will be important in the basis of any other prediction I may come to make. :p

#9997 Tardis40

Tardis40
  • Member

  • 733 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 18 May 2011 - 16:09

What Michael has to do is sort qualifying sufficiently to get himself out of the range of idiots like Petrov, Barrichello, et al, at the start. The race will take care of itself. He must improve qualy.



#9998 ed24f1

ed24f1
  • Member

  • 973 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 16:26

What Michael has to do is sort qualifying sufficiently to get himself out of the range of idiots like Petrov, Barrichello, et al, at the start. The race will take care of itself. He must improve qualy.


I think Petrov in particular would be saying the same thing about Michael!

#9999 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 18 May 2011 - 18:14

I think Petrov in particular would be saying the same thing about Michael!

lol :up:

Advertisement

#10000 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 18 May 2011 - 18:16

Well, between the times Schumacher and Rosberg set, I'm planning to get an idea of the pace that the W02's new upgrades will give (if any) before I conclude anything more than a Top 10 qualification and finish--so Friday pace will be important in the basis of any other prediction I may come to make. :p

I think with testing updates in Friday their pace will be not genuine. And Michael and Nico will have for sure different programs.

Edited by ivand911, 18 May 2011 - 18:17.