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#10151 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:02

LOL is this what Schumacher fans have been reduced to? celebrating over practice times and finishing a lap down in 6th place? LOL


What is not to pleased about finishing 6th in the fourth fastest car on race trim. I am pleased with that as it was the max he could do.

Edited by Massa_f1, 22 May 2011 - 14:04.


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#10152 EdwardCullen

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:03

LOL is this what Schumacher fans have been reduced to? celebrating over practice times and finishing a lap down in 6th place? LOL

Yeah its really poor isnt it, having the fastest car and not able to beat your teammate!

Oh wait! :wave:

#10153 EdwardCullen

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:04

Does anybody on the grid start better than Michael? I think not! Great result today, a master class in defensive driving and did you hear the silence from DC and Brundle on the BBC commentary? Remember last race when they outright said he didn't know how to defend because "he's never been challenged in his career".........yeah.

Yeah his starts have been fantastic :up:

#10154 black magic

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:04

yeah nico looked quicker but at every stop michael pulled ahead - better in/out and therefore some tyre saving going onn. nico never got close enough to ever make an attempt.

move of the race was michael turn 3 lap 1

sensational

#10155 Rocket73

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:04

So , now of a sudden beating your teammate isn't important? :rotfl:

Merc is 4th best car.The end.

:wave:



#10156 ivand911

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:05

LOL is this what Schumacher fans have been reduced to? celebrating over practice times and finishing a lap down in 6th place? LOL

Like Alonso fans, what else to do? They both need to retire, Yes?


#10157 MightyMoose

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:08

Birelman, you're just a shit-stirring troll.

You have no interest in MS, so **** off and go love up your favorite driver.

I don't see a huge celebration here, I see a satisfaction that MS maximized his chance and got the best result available for the team, holding off his teammate on the way. He did all that could reasonably be expected of him today given the car is clearly 4th best on the grid.
MM

#10158 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:08

LOL is this what Schumacher fans have been reduced to? celebrating over practice times and finishing a lap down in 6th place? LOL

LOL this is all the bashers can say after a good race?
I am not impressed, please try harder

#10159 Augurk

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:16

So, to sum it up: MSC had a great start, ROS kept his position.
MSC got the "look after the tyres message" from radio.
MSC stayed ahead, ROS seemed to catch him.
ROS was able to use DRS practically every lap being less than a second behind MSC, but never got past.
After pitstops MSC was still ahead, by quite some margin.
ROS made up the margin, but his tyres seemed to go off sooner than MSC.

Conclusion: MSC was preserving tyres, ROS was all-out. That might be why there was the "Nico - Radio?" pit sign on.

MSC won this race over ROS at the start.

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#10160 spacekid

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:16

LOL is this what Schumacher fans have been reduced to? celebrating over practice times and finishing a lap down in 6th place? LOL


Yesterday plenty of Alonso fans were applauding a terrific qualifying lap from the man. As was I.

Reduced to celebrating qualifying in 4th? No, celebrating a great drive.

#10161 Sakae

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:17

Good for you, Michael. Ignore Autosport. Looking towards tommorrow.

#10162 Tarzaan

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:20

Brilliant start, good job in the race, terrible car. Worst than last year.

#10163 Sausage

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:48

Great job today actually. His starts continue to be incredible.

#10164 EdwardCullen

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:54

Great job today actually. His starts continue to be incredible.

:up:

#10165 F1 Tor.

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:56

LOL is this what Schumacher fans have been reduced to? celebrating over practice times and finishing a lap down in 6th place? LOL


I guess Alonso is terrible too, being lapped as well. :rolleyes: MS got the maximum out of his car, unless of course you think the Merc is better than Mac, Red Bull, and Ferrari????

#10166 iakhtar

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 14:58

It's kinda weird as MS never used to be a great starter, Schumi chop etc.

#10167 SCUDmissile

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 15:18

Well done michael. :up:
nostalgia still makes me want him to do well. great race today.

#10168 Birelman

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 16:13

Birelman, you're just a shit-stirring troll.

You have no interest in MS, so **** off and go love up your favorite driver.

I don't see a huge celebration here, I see a satisfaction that MS maximized his chance and got the best result available for the team, holding off his teammate on the way. He did all that could reasonably be expected of him today given the car is clearly 4th best on the grid.
MM

LOL I love it!!!

hey, don't let me spoil the Schumi ego stroking party.....Stroke on!!!! :up:

#10169 exmayol

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 20:14

Decent race by MS today. I hope better results are yet to come, along with better car of course.

#10170 glorius&victorius

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 20:23

I am struck how people can be ecstatic about this result. The man was constantly shadowed by his team mate who had a broken DRS, That is pretty depressing to me.



#10171 exmayol

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 20:24

Its just ridiculous. I'm happy to agree that Nico generally has a pace advantage over Schumi. Where I feel Nico needs to improve is his race craft a little (I'll take this over to the Nico Schumi thread but won't get a much better response).

So as a Schumi fan I'm happy to have a sensible debate about it.

BUT! I think Nico is a great driver, very talented and much younger than Schumi. And look, Schumi beat him in FP3 and some of the Qs so he is hardly slow. Who on the grid in a car below the Mercedes would definately beat Nico? Sutil? Petrov? I don't think so. Probably not Massa either. is di Resta after 5 races proven to take that seat before he learns his trade? No. So who exactly deserves the seat ahead of Schumi meaning after that race performance he HAS to retire? Its just pathetic and impossible to have a decent debate with so many nonsense posts.



Couldn't agree more. This is why we use ignore function so much and only talk among ourselves ;)

#10172 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 20:27

I am struck how people can be ecstatic about this result. The man was constantly shadowed by his team mate who had a broken DRS, That is pretty depressing to me.

There is treatment for depression ;)

I didn't know drs affects pace. I wonder his they where racing in the past

#10173 exmayol

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 20:28

I am struck how people can be ecstatic about this result. The man was constantly shadowed by his team mate who had a broken DRS, That is pretty depressing to me.


Care to elaborate on the shadowing part a bit?

#10174 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 20:33

Care to elaborate on the shadowing part a bit?

Shadow as in stayed behind him

#10175 weston

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 20:35

I am struck how people can be ecstatic about this result.


I can't see celebration here.

#10176 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 20:38

I am struck how people can be ecstatic about this result. The man was constantly shadowed by his team mate who had a broken DRS, That is pretty depressing to me.


Read the comments properly. No one is celebrating 6th place or both Mercedes getting lapped.

What you have here is a bunch of baiting trolls, some people who want to have a mature discussion and others who are putting their two cents worth in.

#10177 baddog

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 22:06

I'm not sure I see the correlation with Nico being an idiot and the difficulty of overtaking on this track. :confused:

On the change from soft to hard he should certainly have passed by stopping one lap later, contrary to the nonsense here the driver behind has a big advantage there (even worn the softs are something like 2 secs a lap faster).. but he had a goddawful inlap which kept him behind, while Michael nailed the stops well.

He also handled the lapping cars badly and lost a couple of seconds each time.

Being theoretically faster avails you nothing if you cannot either pass or do the necessary in the stops.

#10178 Muz Bee

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 22:21

Read the comments properly. No one is celebrating 6th place or both Mercedes getting lapped.

What you have here is a bunch of baiting trolls, some people who want to have a mature discussion and others who are putting their two cents worth in.

I think the tendency with a lot of MS fans is to hate ANY critics here. I think the tendency with a lot of MS critics here is just to bash the man and not be objective. Today was a fair return for MS, he outstarted his teammate off the grid (as has been the trend), bearing in mind NR got tucked off the edge by an out of control Petrov on lap 1. Michael drove faultlessly without setting the world on fire - as did Nico, the result was a narrow points decision to Michael. I still suspect Nico is quicker, even at this track, on whatever tyres.

What many critics of Michael's return, like me, often try to point out is - why? F1 isn't a sport for the fun of it, it's the business of winning. When you are working your way up through the sport like Nico, having to battle just to get into the top 6 is accepted as part of it - he has never been in a truly competitive team and has not yet won his first race. But Michael has won nearly a hundred races and 7 WDCs so why bother, he isn't going to get any faster and clearly he isn't held in awe by other drivers anymore. His fans seem to think he is suddenly going to magically return to winning, but he has a formidable teammate he has to beat before that's possible. And then there's an underperforming MGP team who don't seem to have anything special to offer other than a very good engine.

It's not unrealistic to believe as I do, that this result could be close to the best of the season for Michael, is it? Whenever Michael's car has any little issue, or a pitstop is a bit slow or he appears compromised by his teammate, many of his fans go off and use it as a huge excuse. Nico had plenty of reasons for being beaten by 1 second today but he got beaten, end of story. As a Nico fan I'm not going to make excuses for it, he got beat and the team had their own reasons for not finding a way to leapfrog him past Michael. The result was a down to earth thump for MGP who looked like 4th in WCC today. Maybe that will change at Monaco but we won't see the great drives that Michael so exciting to watch.

#10179 weston

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 22:50

Rosberg and his fans are on thin ice if they position himself and his career fighting against Schumacher. Formula one and team work to build a better car is not a zero sum game.

Edited by weston, 23 May 2011 - 00:12.


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#10180 ClubmanGT

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 22:55

I think the sad thing is that both drivers have not yet had the chance to extract the most ouf of the car because it is a constant state of flux, there's either upgrades or failures, whereas the Red Bull team have a fairly stable package, and the McLarens are developing quickly, but also started off much better than Mercedes.

I think Nico and Michael are both being short-changed by the W02 and both deserve a much better car.

#10181 exmayol

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 00:48

What many critics of Michael's return, like me, often try to point out is - why? F1 isn't a sport for the fun of it, it's the business of winning. When you are working your way up through the sport like Nico, having to battle just to get into the top 6 is accepted as part of it - he has never been in a truly competitive team and has not yet won his first race. But Michael has won nearly a hundred races and 7 WDCs so why bother, he isn't going to get any faster and clearly he isn't held in awe by other drivers anymore. His fans seem to think he is suddenly going to magically return to winning, but he has a formidable teammate he has to beat before that's possible. And then there's an underperforming MGP team who don't seem to have anything special to offer other than a very good engine.


Why bother? Perhaps for him there is racing and not just a business of winning. Not just any racing but racing on the edge with the best guys on the planet. Surely he is a perfectionist and wants winning but hey who doesn't? You might be surprised by he has plenty of fans who love him not for stats but for no fear of challenges and for undeniable will to fight to the end. If there is consistency and proper car development the result will follow.


#10182 black magic

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 07:52

because michael knows winning sometimes takes years of endeavour

yes he wanted success to come this time but he will have realised very quickly at each season beginning this car was never going to do it.

for all his faults schumacher has never nbeen a quitter unlike most on the grid now and in the past. the guy has never been afraid of hard graft and knows better than anyone sometimes the lucky result turns up when you least expect but if you're not trying it will never show.

he's also fighting to retain his dignity and he will be all too conscious of the detractors having a fireld day. now he's started he cant just walk away with his tail between his legs. god the 1996 and at times 1997 ferrari was aas bad and he never tossed it in then - why expect him to react differently now?

it was exactly these same traits that made him a legend. why would he abandon those qualities now more than ever?

#10183 rommel

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 07:55

it was exactly these same traits that made him a legend. why would he abandon those qualities now more than ever?


Because he no longer has any speed.

#10184 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 08:00

Because he no longer has any speed.

sure he doesn't :)
just because you say so

#10185 Muz Bee

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 09:53

Rosberg and his fans are on thin ice if they position himself and his career fighting against Schumacher. Formula one and team work to build a better car is not a zero sum game.

errr..... you'll have to explain that one. In 40 years following and competing in motorsport I haven't heard that one.

On second thoughts, don't bother. Your comments are probably the smoke and mirror games that give credit for any MGP02 improvements to Michael. As for thin ice, let's wait and see.

#10186 BRK

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 12:50

What I think is that something changed after the Turkey GP, MS was seriously pissed after qualifying and was disappointed after the race, IMO they might have realized backing one driver over another was never going to work and changed the way they approached a weekend. (as it hasn't this past season and half) The interview with MS and Haug was quite telling, for whatever reason Schumacher was a lot more positive and even bullish about their prospects than many would have expected him to be. It was nice to see the team stand by him -if they continue to work together and get rid of any destabilizing elements within the team (you know who I'm talking about) I'm confident they will soon achieve success. I realize this is a smaller operation than most of the other teams and that may necessitate preferential treatment in favour of the younger driver at times, but the results are there for all to see. Try shifting the approach and watch what happens.

BTW, did anyone from BBC ask Schumacher if Rosberg had an edge over him after the race, followed by a replay of Schumacher taking the flag ahead of his teamate? Yeah, didn't think so..

#10187 britishtrident

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 13:33

Schumacher Cult

cult/kəlt/Noun
1. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2. A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

Edited by britishtrident, 23 May 2011 - 13:34.


#10188 Gold

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 13:46

I thought it was so weird in 1991 that just a kid could come along and wipe the floor with a triple World Champion (Piquet).

I thought it could never happen to Michael when he was racing in 95-04, etc.

But now it's the same situation, age does something obviously.

I will be amazed if he really starts doing well (better than Nico) consistently. That would be really amazing.

#10189 ivand911

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 13:53

I thought it was so weird in 1991 that just a kid could come along and wipe the floor with a triple World Champion (Piquet).
I thought it could never happen to Michael when he was racing in 95-04, etc.
But now it's the same situation, age does something obviously.
I will be amazed if he really starts doing well (better than Nico) consistently. That would be really amazing.

Yes, and Piquet was not so old. He was 39?

Edited by ivand911, 23 May 2011 - 13:54.


#10190 Sakae

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 14:23

I think the tendency with a lot of MS fans is to hate ANY critics here. I think the tendency with a lot of MS critics here is just to bash the man and not be objective. Today was a fair return for MS, he outstarted his teammate off the grid (as has been the trend), bearing in mind NR got tucked off the edge by an out of control Petrov on lap 1. Michael drove faultlessly without setting the world on fire - as did Nico, the result was a narrow points decision to Michael. I still suspect Nico is quicker, even at this track, on whatever tyres.

What many critics of Michael's return, like me, often try to point out is - why? F1 isn't a sport for the fun of it, it's the business of winning. When you are working your way up through the sport like Nico, having to battle just to get into the top 6 is accepted as part of it - he has never been in a truly competitive team and has not yet won his first race. But Michael has won nearly a hundred races and 7 WDCs so why bother, he isn't going to get any faster and clearly he isn't held in awe by other drivers anymore. His fans seem to think he is suddenly going to magically return to winning, but he has a formidable teammate he has to beat before that's possible. And then there's an underperforming MGP team who don't seem to have anything special to offer other than a very good engine.

It's not unrealistic to believe as I do, that this result could be close to the best of the season for Michael, is it? Whenever Michael's car has any little issue, or a pitstop is a bit slow or he appears compromised by his teammate, many of his fans go off and use it as a huge excuse. Nico had plenty of reasons for being beaten by 1 second today but he got beaten, end of story. As a Nico fan I'm not going to make excuses for it, he got beat and the team had their own reasons for not finding a way to leapfrog him past Michael. The result was a down to earth thump for MGP who looked like 4th in WCC today. Maybe that will change at Monaco but we won't see the great drives that Michael so exciting to watch.

Muz, there is no problem critiquing MS. Problem is often substance of the criticism levied against Schumacher, IMO anyway.

#10191 jav

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 14:47

Schumacher had a good race. One of the first times I believe he got out of the car- what it could give. It was concervative and error free but certianly not special -hauling the car above it's potential.

Rosberg had a decent race- not as good as Schumi's. Even if he had a DRS problem- (I saw the wing working on all the shots they showed) I don't believe he could have finsihed above where Schumi did.


Merc as a team continues to disappoint. Major updates? Really? The car is still way off pace- ridden with gills- no significant bodywork or exhaust work and they got no where near MS best time in testing. Seems like they went backward (relative to testing) yet again.

I have mixed feelings about the strategy call as well. Part of me says it was right as they finished where I think the cars deserved. The flip side is they lost an interesting opportunity with MS. We've seen Webber and now Heidfeld start dead last on hards and work their way up the pack. Schumi could have started from 10th on hards- and tired a 3 stop strategy finishing on options. The results may have been different (better or worse) but at least it would have been an interesting and gutsy call.

I can understand taking the concervative route given MS last race but I would have gambled- It's not like MS has a points race to worry about.

#10192 exmayol

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 15:42

I can understand taking the concervative route given MS last race but I would have gambled- It's not like MS has a points race to worry about.


Yeah I hear you. I thought so as well. On the other hand imagine a shit storm that would have happened if MS had another race that was considered unsuccessful, regardless of the circumstances and his real speed.

#10193 Spa95

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 15:52

Merc as a team continues to disappoint. Major updates? Really? The car is still way off pace- ridden with gills- no significant bodywork or exhaust work and they got no where near MS best time in testing. Seems like they went backward (relative to testing) yet again.

The gills should be gone at Monaco after another oil cooler modification. :) And the testing times at Barcelona have always been faster than the GP times.

#10194 salamin

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 16:07

spain onboard start

#10195 ivand911

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 16:29

The gills should be gone at Monaco after another oil cooler modification. :) And the testing times at Barcelona have always been faster than the GP times.

Barcelona 2010 test: 1:20.472 , qualy 01:19.995 . 2011 test 1:21.2 , qualy 01:20.981. Last year in FP2 Michael did the same time, like his own best time from 2010 tests - 1:20.7. So,this year we really lost 1,3 sec to the tests. :down: RBR and McLaren improved from the tests, Alonso lost 0,3 ; Petrov(LRGP) lost 0,4 sec, we lost 1,3 sec. This year car is bigger dog than last year's car, it is official.
Team like MCLaren should have resolved cooling problems before season start. MGP need more than 2 months? How many oil cooler modifications? Last year was wrong WD, this year is double radiator configuration. Also change in rear suspension didn't help too? I doubt team will get closer to McLaren like in China, this year.

Edited by ivand911, 23 May 2011 - 16:44.


#10196 F1 Tor.

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 17:11

Now I understand. If he finishes down the order, he's shit and has lost it. If he finishes in 6th position, he's shit and has lost it. Great start. Doesn't matter, the car drove itself. Kept his teammate behind him-still shit. I'm guessing if he gets a podium this year, he's still....you get the idea. Funny how if anyone else on the grid would have finished 6th it would have been considered a solid result. Some people here make me laugh. I've called MS an idiot when he's deserved it, too bad others can't call a spade a spade and give him credit for a decent points haul.

Edited by F1 Tor., 23 May 2011 - 17:19.


#10197 jav

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 17:14

Barcelona 2010 test: 1:20.472 , qualy 01:19.995 . 2011 test 1:21.2 , qualy 01:20.981. Last year in FP2 Michael did the same time, like his own best time from 2010 tests - 1:20.7. So,this year we really lost 1,3 sec to the tests. :down: RBR and McLaren improved from the tests, Alonso lost 0,3 ; Petrov(LRGP) lost 0,4 sec, we lost 1,3 sec. This year car is bigger dog than last year's car, it is official.
Team like MCLaren should have resolved cooling problems before season start. MGP need more than 2 months? How many oil cooler modifications? Last year was wrong WD, this year is double radiator configuration. Also change in rear suspension didn't help too? I doubt team will get closer to McLaren like in China, this year.



Shumacher said this in an interview- I don't recall where but I think it makes the most sense given the results we see. Basically he said something to the effect that Merc is a small team. That other teams were to become smaller but Mercedes actually did it.

It gave the impression Mercedes is trying to be a top 4 team with closer to mid field resources. If true- this would explain a lot. This year had so much promise and in a way, is even more disappointing than last year. Last year there were high (perhaps unrealistic) expectations with many realities that softened failures impact. This year, expectations were still high- but more realistic in view of last year. This years- they are in a better car (according to all in the team) and in worse shape. That they say they are headed in the right direction appears to mean only that they are not driving against trafffic.

#10198 Professor Arturo

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 17:41

On the change from soft to hard he should certainly have passed by stopping one lap later, contrary to the nonsense here the driver behind has a big advantage there (even worn the softs are something like 2 secs a lap faster).. but he had a goddawful inlap which kept him behind, while Michael nailed the stops well.

:lol:
New hards are faster than used softs, not 2 seconds slower :rotfl:.
To prove to you what I said, I will show you an example of the laptimes MS did on his old softs and then the laptimes he did with new hards.

old softs
Lap 40 - 1:30.965

New hards (first clear lap on new hards)

Lap 43 1:29.572

Yeah, new hards were really 2 seconds slower :rotfl:

To make my point even clearer for you, Hamilton was doing over 1.30 times on old softs, pitted, put on new hards and started doing 1:28.5


As for having a god damn awful inlap, Nico`s inlap was less than 3 tenths slower than Schumachers.


#10199 Augurk

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 18:26

:lol:
New hards are faster than used softs, not 2 seconds slower :rotfl:.
To prove to you what I said, I will show you an example of the laptimes MS did on his old softs and then the laptimes he did with new hards.

old softs
Lap 40 - 1:30.965

New hards (first clear lap on new hards)

Lap 43 1:29.572

Yeah, new hards were really 2 seconds slower :rotfl:

To make my point even clearer for you, Hamilton was doing over 1.30 times on old softs, pitted, put on new hards and started doing 1:28.5


As for having a god damn awful inlap, Nico`s inlap was less than 3 tenths slower than Schumachers.


Nuff said. Race to MSC. Next!


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#10200 Boing 2

Boing 2
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Posted 23 May 2011 - 18:40

Schumacher had a good race. One of the first times I believe he got out of the car- what it could give. It was concervative and error free but certianly not special -hauling the car above it's potential.

Rosberg had a decent race- not as good as Schumi's. Even if he had a DRS problem- (I saw the wing working on all the shots they showed) I don't believe he could have finsihed above where Schumi did.


I would have said they had an almost identical weekend, Rosberg qualified better but had a poor start, Schumacher qualified worse but had a better start, they then drove the whole race nose to tail. Neither really stood out.