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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#10201 jav

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 19:05

I would have said they had an almost identical weekend, Rosberg qualified better but had a poor start, Schumacher qualified worse but had a better start, they then drove the whole race nose to tail. Neither really stood out.


I can see why you might think that way but the reality is- Shumacher improved 4 spots from his qualifying position and he finished ahead of Rosberg. Rosberg started and finished 7th. Also- with DRS, there IS an advantage available to the follower that isn't always available to the leader. Quite often, Schumacher did not have DRS available while Nico did- and he still beat him. For those reasons, I would say Shumacher performed marginally better- which admittedly hasn't happened often.

I agree neither stood out. I think the cars finished about where they deserved. With Massa retiring, it's tough to say if Merc truelly had Ferrari's measure or if Alonso drove above the cars potential. Heidfeld/ Petrov was also a tough one to gauge. I think tire strategy really played a role in giving heidfeld the edge.... which is why I wish schumi tried the same from tenth. He might have been in a better position to bring a fight to Alonso at the end. Of course the flip side is he could just as easily have been retired fighting amongst the weeds. Either way- the only way the W02 is getting a race win is through luck more than merit. I don't believe Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel could turn this car into a consistent winner.

Edited by jav, 23 May 2011 - 19:06.


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#10202 ivand911

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 19:16

:lol:
New hards are faster than used softs, not 2 seconds slower :rotfl:.
To prove to you what I said, I will show you an example of the laptimes MS did on his old softs and then the laptimes he did with new hards.
old softs
Lap 40 - 1:30.965
New hards (first clear lap on new hards)
Lap 43 1:29.572
Yeah, new hards were really 2 seconds slower :rotfl:
To make my point even clearer for you, Hamilton was doing over 1.30 times on old softs, pitted, put on new hards and started doing 1:28.5
As for having a god damn awful inlap, Nico`s inlap was less than 3 tenths slower than Schumachers.

I think we need to compare tires with equal fuel level and mileage? Look also Q2 times FI drivers with hards in 1:26 and STR and Saubers with softs in 1:23. Every car/driver use tyres differently , but you are right that dead softs are little slower or equal to the new/little used hards(but not dead ones). Dead softs will be quicker than dead hards(or at the same mileage). Like new softs will be quicker than new hards. Also there is 3 laps less fuel in the car.

Edited by ivand911, 23 May 2011 - 19:35.


#10203 aditya-now

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 19:39

Sadly predictable that the trolls are only going to say NR was faster and MS just held him up all day.

Don't recall them saying the same when the roles were reversed in Suzuka last year.

Here's to a Frans less few days :clap:
MM



Obviously Nico was faster than Michael, but Michael was excellent in defense. And, as usual, excellent at the start, which seems to be his strongest forté these days. I agree with Birelman - is this what Michael Schumacher´s fans have been reduced to - celebrating the outcome of the Spanish GP, 6th, one lap down, narrowly beating Rosberg?

I hope Mercedes will be up two notches come Monaco.

Edited by aditya-now, 23 May 2011 - 19:41.


#10204 black magic

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 19:42

who's celebrating?

most are simply pointing out that he is not finished just yet. that he does show glimpses of seasons past.

see - some of us can support michael without having to slag off nico

#10205 BRK

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 19:45

Now I understand. If he finishes down the order, he's shit and has lost it. If he finishes in 6th position, he's shit and has lost it. Great start. Doesn't matter, the car drove itself. Kept his teammate behind him-still shit. I'm guessing if he gets a podium this year, he's still....you get the idea.


And if he races his teammate it's sad and he's got to go; if he doesn't and let's him through he's lost his mojo and has to go. Defend -and he's either 'holding cars up' or being to aggressive; no defence - he's lost his skills, it's 'sad to watch', and he needs to retire.



#10206 Birelman

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 19:50

And if he races his teammate it's sad and he's got to go; if he doesn't and let's him through he's lost his mojo and has to go. Defend -and he's either 'holding cars up' or being to aggressive; no defence - he's lost his skills, it's 'sad to watch', and he needs to retire.

see, tha wasn't so hard to admit, was it? :drunk:

#10207 F1 Tor.

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 19:52

And if he races his teammate it's sad and he's got to go; if he doesn't and let's him through he's lost his mojo and has to go. Defend -and he's either 'holding cars up' or being to aggressive; no defence - he's lost his skills, it's 'sad to watch', and he needs to retire.


of course, that goes without saying.  ;)

#10208 Sakae

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 20:34

The last race was a solitary time for MGP, and only race available to them was to race each other. I am however not entirely certain that this could be hanged on Schumacher. After all, I do not see Rosberg anywhere near podium in that race either.

Being a lap down on top four cars is not something I expect to be fixed any time soon. It is going to be not only painful for Michael for rest of the season, but likely his family too, reading all that garbage in media. From different perspective, it might have been tire borned anomaly. Alonso after his excellent start end up a lap down as well; go and figure.

Who knows what we will see in Monaco. MGP has short wheelbase, and car could be quite nimble (assuming it will not slide on tires).

Edited by Sakae, 23 May 2011 - 20:38.


#10209 Starish

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 22:50

The short WB won't be much of an advantage as people think but one at least, Michael as always awesome starts, if the W02 gets race pace to match RBR and a 1 lap speed that can put them P4-P6 I think MSC could win again his race craft is there still.

#10210 MightyMoose

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 23:58

The short WB won't be much of an advantage as people think but one at least, Michael as always awesome starts, if the W02 gets race pace to match RBR and a 1 lap speed that can put them P4-P6 I think MSC could win again his race craft is there still.



I agree MS is showing very good racecraft, but unless its a Monaco race like in 96 with every single lead runner hitting problems, then he's got very little chance this weekend. I think it's probably fair to say that if a Merc wins on outright pace this season it's more likely to be NR driving, Spa & Suzuka will be the best MS chances but RB/McLaren will own those.


#10211 Birelman

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 00:00

The short WB won't be much of an advantage as people think but one at least, Michael as always awesome starts, if the W02 gets race pace to match RBR and a 1 lap speed that can put them P4-P6 I think MSC could win again his race craft is there still.

LOL

#10212 rommel

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 06:25

I would have said they had an almost identical weekend, Rosberg qualified better but had a poor start, Schumacher qualified worse but had a better start, they then drove the whole race nose to tail. Neither really stood out.


It was a bit hard for Nico to stand out considering he was stuck behind Michael the whole race.

#10213 ivand911

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 07:01

It was a bit hard for Nico to stand out considering he was stuck behind Michael the whole race.

And how he get there? That is the problem, I suggest him to think about that, not to make excuses? He didn't have better pace as it was shown on his inlaps, where he didn't make any fast lap , which show Michael wasn't holding him. All stuck idea is demolished by his inlaps. We see no speed there.


#10214 baddog

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 07:09

Sorry, its up to drivers to make their performances work. if he was actually better he would have finished ahead. barring actual performance damaging problems (which he did NOT have, DRS does not improve your laptimes when not trying to pass) I have made no excuses for Michael and I will take none for Nico

#10215 Man of the race

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 07:14

Nico always catched Michael after his pitstops. What wonders me, is why he didn't pit before Michael once to try to pass him so? Or did he? Does Merc have "the driver in lead can choose the pit order" policy or what.

Michael was not specially fast, I wonder if he ever will, any more, but he maximized his opportunities with experience. Monaco will be his best bet. That will be interesting.

Edited by Man of the race, 24 May 2011 - 07:19.


#10216 rommel

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 07:23

And how he get there? That is the problem, I suggest him to think about that, not to make excuses? He didn't have better pace as it was shown on his inlaps, where he didn't make any fast lap , which show Michael wasn't holding him. All stuck idea is demolished by his inlaps. We see no speed there.


In laps are not a good test of speed, because some drivers are better at them than others because of concentration. Jean alesi was always terrible on inlaps according to Pat symonds because he lost focus. Rosberg showed his superior speed from lap 30-36 when he caught Michael at a rate of 7 tenths. A few slow inlaps do not change that. With that kind of pace he could have challenged Alonso.

#10217 ivand911

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 07:46

In laps are not a good test of speed, because some drivers are better at them than others because of concentration. Jean alesi was always terrible on inlaps according to Pat symonds because he lost focus. Rosberg showed his superior speed from lap 30-36 when he caught Michael at a rate of 7 tenths. A few slow inlaps do not change that. With that kind of pace he could have challenged Alonso.

It was up to him to do it? I doubt ,but don't mind me. Last year Suzuka race, Michael could catch Lewis who have real problems, but didn't because of slower Nico. When Nico crashed Michael pace improve by 1,5 sec(from 1:36.6 to 1:35.1). So, I don't care what Nico could have done.


#10218 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 08:48

In laps are not a good test of speed, because some drivers are better at them than others because of concentration.

the same can be said about qualy performance :wave:

#10219 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 08:50

Nico always catched Michael after his pitstops. What wonders me, is why he didn't pit before Michael once to try to pass him so? Or did he? Does Merc have "the driver in lead can choose the pit order" policy or what.

Michael was not specially fast, I wonder if he ever will, any more, but he maximized his opportunities with experience. Monaco will be his best bet. That will be interesting.

did you notice that nico's tyres were looking bad at the end of the stints?

michael pitted first but always in a stint rosberg's tyres were fresher by a lap.

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#10220 Frans

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:31

However how amusing it is to watch him fail miserably, I have seen men cry because of his results.

Is that normal? I mean, I am fan from like Jos Verstappen, but never was crying for crying out loud.

And it's incredible how much optimism they (his cult-fans) have, race after race.... kudo's, because I know it won't last another 8 races....

#10221 EdwardCullen

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:43

It was up to him to do it? I doubt ,but don't mind me. Last year Suzuka race, Michael could catch Lewis who have real problems, but didn't because of slower Nico. When Nico crashed Michael pace improve by 1,5 sec(from 1:36.6 to 1:35.1). So, I don't care what Nico could have done.

exactly

#10222 jonnoj

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:53

However how amusing it is to watch him fail miserably, I have seen men cry because of his results.

Is that normal? I mean, I am fan from like Jos Verstappen, but never was crying for crying out loud.

And it's incredible how much optimism they (his cult-fans) have, race after race.... kudo's, because I know it won't last another 8 races....



They are living their lives through their heroes - sad innit. In today's 'hit thread' about Ferrari, you'll see fans discussing events using 'we' as if they too are part of the Ferrari team. Blurred reality.




#10223 tifosi4life

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:57

However how amusing it is to watch him fail miserably, I have seen men cry because of his results.

Is that normal? I mean, I am fan from like Jos Verstappen, but never was crying for crying out loud.

And it's incredible how much optimism they (his cult-fans) have, race after race.... kudo's, because I know it won't last another 8 races....


your hate and negativity towards all things Michael Schumacher is amazing. I have put up with you for far too long and I could use a lot less of you... welcome to my black list Frans ):

#10224 BRK

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:03

They are living their lives through their heroes - sad innit. In today's 'hit thread' about Ferrari, you'll see fans discussing events using 'we' as if they too are part of the Ferrari team. Blurred reality.


You don't think those on the other side of the fence are doing the same?

#10225 eriknaa

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:09

You don't think those on the other side of the fence are doing the same?


Thanks for the support BRK, indeed WE are suporting Michael, cause WE are his fans, and everything regarding him we want the best to happen.
And WE are supporting Michael and the team in the best way possible, great to see other fellow fans understanding this.
And yeah i am sure Mclaren and Renault fans are doing the same. It is actually pretty normal. For crying out loud, let pepole have idols and heros they can look up to.

#10226 Birelman

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 17:30

You don't think those on the other side of the fence are doing the same?

well, I don't :p

#10227 sharo

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 19:41

Good and stable race by Michel. So far, so much with the car they both have currently.

#10228 puxanando

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 21:19

Michaels sponsors are bored.....

#10229 Jon12345

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 16:29

If you exlude the first race of the season where neither driver finished, the scorecard for the last 8 races is 4:4. But, I believe that the gap between finishing positions shows that Schumacher is ahead of Rosberg. For all those who keep saying Schumacher is too slow, think again. Bear in mind that despite the level scorecard over this period, Schumacher has suffered KERs issues 3 times in qualifying, unlike Rosberg who has had a mechanically perfect car for qualifying.

#10230 ali.unal

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 17:01

Michaels sponsors are bored.....

Is this a reliable source? German folks?

#10231 puxanando

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 17:08

Is this a reliable source? German folks?

Yes it is. Would say the same level like Autosport

#10232 ali.unal

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 17:09

Yes it is. Would say the same level like Autosport

Then it's depressing :well:

Posted Image

Edited by ali.unal, 25 May 2011 - 17:10.


#10233 ivand911

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 17:35

Then it's depressing :well:

Posted Image

No it is not? Ask puxanando to explain you, what is in this article? Some English professor opinion that Michael brand value drops gradually. Nothing else. It is not opinion of his sponsors. It is article to make headlines, nothing more. Useless stuff.
What his sponsors think:"Audemars Piguet stressed that it was "primarily the man and his entire career," who had moved to the watch brand to sponsor the Mercedes drivers. Navyboot chief Faris Momani called Schumacher even as "legend" and believes in a more successful future of its advertising medium: "We are very confident that he will find back to winning ways."

Edited by ivand911, 25 May 2011 - 17:38.


#10234 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 19:17

Michaels sponsors are bored.....

It also contains these words in the end. :well:

These brands would have the name of Schumacher, the values ​​of tradition and success bought with said Simon Chadwick, professor of sports and business strategy at Coventry University. "With every race he has not ceased or where he is not scoring, brand value drops are successively "," will Chadwick of 'Bloomberg quoted as saying.(NOT THE SPONSORS)

But still qualities are the sponsors of Schumacher (advertising) is convinced. Audemars Piguet stressed that "it is primarily the man and his entire career had been "that have led to the watch brand, the Mercedes driver to sponsor. Navyboot chief Faris Momani called Schumacher even as "legend" and believes in a more successful future of its advertising medium: "We are very confident that he will find the winning ways back on."

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 May 2011 - 19:21.


#10235 baddog

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 19:48

If you exlude the first race of the season where neither driver finished, the scorecard for the last 8 races is 4:4. But, I believe that the gap between finishing positions shows that Schumacher is ahead of Rosberg. For all those who keep saying Schumacher is too slow, think again. Bear in mind that despite the level scorecard over this period, Schumacher has suffered KERs issues 3 times in qualifying, unlike Rosberg who has had a mechanically perfect car for qualifying.


I should resurrect a graph I started last year and update it race by race, showing a rolling performance of these two since Michaels return.

Ill emphasise now that I believe Rosberg is ahead still on any useful measure, but indeed if you look at the last half a season or so there is really almost nothing in it.. closest pair in any team I think.

#10236 Sakae

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 00:30

Michael is cool to potential tire performance in Sunday's race.

Edited by Sakae, 26 May 2011 - 00:32.


#10237 ivand911

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:35

I hope team will repair Michael car for FP2. I don't know what happen there. It was odd.

#10238 baddog

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:37

Will be easily repaired, new suspension most likely all thats needed.

#10239 Number62

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:38

I hope team will repair Michael car for FP2. I don't know what happen there. It was odd.


Looks like he slowed down to find some track space, maybe lost a couple of PSI or temp in the tyres.

The old boy's OK, that's the main thing.

Edited by Number62, 26 May 2011 - 09:39.


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#10240 Frans

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:00

Nice...

#10241 merschu

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 13:11

Found a video of Michael's crash:

#10242 vovelo

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 15:51

Michael Schumacher (7th, 1:16.356): "Our gap to the front seems to be less here than in Barcelona. With my crash this morning, we had made a set-up change for the run and I locked up braking for turn one. After that, my decision to go down the escape road was too late, which is why I hit the barrier. The mechanics did a super job and the car this afternoon was just as quick as this morning. What Nico showed in terms of one-lap pace looks good, and our long runs were also quite reasonable."

#10243 Jon12345

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 16:07

Lets hope this is good news for Merc.

#10244 ivand911

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 13:39

P5 is not bad for Michael.

#10245 Ali_G

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 13:40

Good qual from MS.

Not a word from Brundle or Coulthard about him.

#10246 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 13:40

5 is on the inside here? let's hope he gets another fantastic start

#10247 arknor

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 13:42

Good qual from MS.

Not a word from Brundle or Coulthard about him.

they goto keep the negative schumacher persona beeing slowly brainwashed until armchair warrior minds

#10248 Herth

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 13:48

Funniest thing was them bashing MS after Q1, while Rosberg clearly came out from the pits with Super Softs all the way. He was on Super Softs from the beginning, so he could secure getting into Q2 and then getting some running in the track after missing the FP3 this morning.

Lets hope MS gets a good start tomorrow as usual and gets a good strategy from the team!

#10249 DutchCruijff

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 13:49

They didn't spot the fact that Rosberg was supersofts - DC didn't even know the colours - and they conveniently didn't spot Alonso & Vettel whooping Massa's & Webber's ass whilst on the same tyres.

#10250 ivand911

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 13:56

Great Qualy by Michael. I don't mean only the result, but the way he did it. Getting early on the track ,doing good laps early. For the first time he improved his times trough Qualy. He did a lot of laps, I hope this will not be a problem with tyres for tomorrow. I hope they learn from this Qualy and will do it this way from now on. Also I very like him doing early laps on free track in FP3. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Edited by ivand911, 28 May 2011 - 13:56.