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#11001 ivand911

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 15:31

There are mixed opinions in the racing world wether michael as lost his speed. Nobody really does know if his teamates were given the full opportunities to challenge Michael. We don't know If lastyears car suited nico more than Michael, what we do know is that nico as shown to be the quicker of the two. Canada showed some of the old magic, but I feel those performances will be rare from him

Did you follow last year? Not, that NR was given the full opportunity, in some races team improved his chances in WDC for Michael expense. In Brazil MS leave Nico to pass him twice to finish ahead. And many more examples for better strategy for Nico. About last year car I am sure Williams 2009 car was closer to W01 than Ferrari 2006. Tyres also.


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#11002 Group B

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 15:39

There are mixed opinions in the racing world wether michael as lost his speed. Nobody really does know if his teamates were given the full opportunities to challenge Michael. We don't know If lastyears car suited nico more than Michael, what we do know is that nico as shown to be the quicker of the two. Canada showed some of the old magic, but I feel those performances will be rare from him

Frankly I think MS was already losing some speed back in 2005 or 2006; another 5 years has seen him lose a bit more. I'd be amazed if he's not at least ½ second slower than 10 years ago, and probably nearer a second off his 1993-2002 peak decade.

That spell in Canada was wonderful, just like old times, but as you say I think it won't happen too often.

#11003 ivand911

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 15:47

Frankly I think MS was already losing some speed back in 2005 or 2006; another 5 years has seen him lose a bit more. I'd be amazed if he's not at least ½ second slower than 10 years ago, and probably nearer a second off his 1993-2002 peak decade.

That spell in Canada was wonderful, just like old times, but as you say I think it won't happen too often.

He don't have car to do such things often.


#11004 sosidge

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 15:56

He don't have car to do such things often.


And if he was in the Red Bull, McLaren or Ferrari, what do you suppose he would be doing?

I guarantee he wouldn't be beating Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso.

Please, please acknowledge that MS v2 has been soundly beaten by Rosberg. The conspiracy theories do not explain his performances over the last 18 months, and Michael has been personally responsible for many of his most embrassing incidents.

There is no shame in recognising that MS age 41 is not as fast as MS age 26, 31 or even 36. It does not mean that the records set by MS v1 are removed from the statistics.

MS v1 got the results (and punishments) he deserved. So has MS v2. It's just that the results are not as good, because he is not as good. Learn to accept that.

#11005 ivand911

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 16:13

And if he was in the Red Bull, McLaren or Ferrari, what do you suppose he would be doing?

I guarantee he wouldn't be beating Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso.

Please, please acknowledge that MS v2 has been soundly beaten by Rosberg. The conspiracy theories do not explain his performances over the last 18 months, and Michael has been personally responsible for many of his most embrassing incidents.

There is no shame in recognising that MS age 41 is not as fast as MS age 26, 31 or even 36. It does not mean that the records set by MS v1 are removed from the statistics.

MS v1 got the results (and punishments) he deserved. So has MS v2. It's just that the results are not as good, because he is not as good. Learn to accept that.

I wouldn't bet my house on that. Would you?


#11006 Pits

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 16:28

I seems to me that Schumacher is getting a little stronger every race. Which isn't strange after a long sabatical he's had. He has worked himself up to an equal level as Rosberg, which he wasn't last year. I feel there is still more to come from Schumacher, but the car has got to improve a lot.

#11007 ivand911

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 16:45

But from the rosberg v schumacher thread

So Rosberg is nothing special because he's beating some 'knackered old has-been' but he's a 'knackered old has-been' that can beat the finest drivers on the grid?

Little inconsistent don't you think? if schumacher could really beat hamilton et al in a fair fight then rosberg must be the talent of the decade.

Why you quote EdwardCullen?


#11008 Kubiccia

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 17:59

Current Schumi wouldn't beat the current top guns. I rate Nico as an average/good driver and Michael is only matching him on qualifyings nowadays. Let's see if Schumi can keep it up on this next qualifying. Unfortunately, I think Nico will beat him by a bigger margin in this qualifying because the G-forces are over 5 in at least 4 corners and that will affect Michael much more than anybody else.

If you look closely, the old guys are being beaten on regular basis by the newbies and the most notable example is Kova/Trulli. Even Barrichello is starting to be beating oftenly by a rookie in the qualifyings.


Don't expect too much from Michael people, Canada was a one-off, a glimpse of his previous form.

#11009 Boing 2

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 18:09

Why you quote EdwardCullen?


sorry, my mistake :drunk:

#11010 ivand911

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 19:12

Don't expect too much from Michael people, Canada was a one-off, a glimpse of his previous form.

What to expect from 4th best car? Not much. Only if you are lucky. This is what happen with the guys who have 4th best car.


#11011 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 20:22

We have seen from both Merc drivers that, in qualifying at least, they're getting the most out of their cars. The car cannot be any faster and in reality there is very little to seperate the two.

Infact, I'd argue that the gap between the Mclaren, Ferrari and Red Bull drivers is arguably bigger this year compared to the Merc drivers. Indeed, even in terms of points and results both MS and NR are closer than everyone else too.

PS - It has been one year this weekend since Mercedes' last podium. The car has not been podium worthy for the last 12 months. That is the most shocking statistic of them all......

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 05 July 2011 - 20:24.


#11012 merschu

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 20:44

Peter Windsor's interview with Ross Brawn about Michael Schumacher


Interview: Ross Brawn – ‘Nothing Ever Stays The Same…’

July 5, 2011 – There was a moment, in the early 2000s, when the Ross Brawn-Michael Schumacher partnership seemed as permanent as the Ferrari name itself. Colin Chapman/Jim Clark? Ken Tyrrell/Jackie Stewart? They paled into the background. Ross and Michael re-wrote the record book, albeit in a safer, more prolific era of Formula One.

Then – suddenly – it ended. Ross Brawn decided he’d had enough. Michael followed suit. It was all over. A new age would dawn. The face of F1 would change.

Forever.

Now, five years after Ross Brawn decided to retire from his career at Ferrari, it’s almost as if those older, Maranello times were but a dream. The same Ross is working with the same Michael….but the main goal now is to make Q3 – and then, perchance, the podium. Nothing stays the same; everybody knows that. No-one back in the early 2000s, though, would ever have predicted that it would develop in the way it has – that it would all result in a 42-year-old Michael working with a Team Principal called Ross Brawn, within a team re-born as Mercedes and a in car that is significantly inferior to a Ferrari and a McLaren, let alone a Red Bull-Renault.

I chatted to Ross on the eve of this year’s Canadian Grand Prix. Michael would run strongly in the race the following day. He would slice his way up to a strong second place; he would prove that the pace and the fire are still there, even if eventually Michael would give best to Jenson Button’s McLaren-Mercedes and to Mark Webber’s DRS-assisted Red Bull. It would provide justification, indeed, for much of what Ross had to say when we chatted in his back office, adjacent to his engineers’ meeting room.

I began by asking Ross how he felt in those Ferrari days. Was a “retirement” always planned?

“I think you know that nothing ever stays the same,” he replied, “and that everything is going to have a shelf-life. So I set myself an arbitrary ten years, and when it started to approach ten years I thought ‘this is a good time to stop’. There was no massive logic to it all. I joined Ferrari on a three-year contract because I figured that over three years I would know if they liked me or I liked them, and whether it would all work, and as life went on it got extended and extended. What I really wanted to avoid – which would have been dreadful – was a decline of all our fortunes at Ferrari and it ending a little bit sour. As it happened, I was able to leave with everybody’s head still held quite high and with lot of friends still in Italy. I speak often to Luca Montezemolo and to Stefano Domenicali – all people with whom I can have a friendly and easy chat and relationship with. Was it too soon? Who knows. For me, it worked out perfectly. I went off and had a sabbatical for a year, and got some things out of my system that I wanted to do, and then came back again.”

Ross’s love of fishing is legendary – but by how much during that sabbatical did he deplete the oceans and rivers of the world? What did he do exactly?

“I was sure that I needed a year away to reflect on everything, to list the things that I enjoyed about F1 and to identify the things that were perhaps not so much fun. The object was to achieve a decent balance. And there were things I wanted to do that I knew I wouldn’t be able to do once I got a lot older. My wife and I did a lot of touring. We travel all over the world in F1 but we never see anything; we spent several weeks in Argentina, which is always a place I enjoyed – in Buenos Aires and Terra del Fuego, where, yes, I did some fishing. My wife wanted to go on Safari – so we did that, too. It was a great year – but I still felt there were things I wanted to do in F1. I wanted to get up in the morning and have a project, something with which I could be involved. That’s why I came back.”

Which seemed a good moment to raise the subject of Michael’s comeback. Many have been outspoken in their criticism of Michael’s return. Ross’s take?

“I think Michael had been at it for a very long time. And you do get tired. You do get tired of all the pressures, of all the things that you can’t do. He had a young family. And you do get weary, even though it is a fantastic life and the rewards are fantastic if you do well. I don’t know whether my decision to stop made him reflect. Maybe he was jealous of all the things I was going to go off and do, because, you know, he had a great three years in retirement, doing lots of things that he would never had done in the world of F1. He did the same as I did. He looked at what he enjoyed about F1, he tried to maximize those things and tried to handle the tiresome side –the constant travel and focus and attention.”


So who made the first approach? Ross or Michael himself?

“It evolved quite slowly,” remembers Ross. “I saw him at the end of 2009. It was one of the last races. We had a good beer together, a good session – and we did a lot of reminiscing – a comparison of the notes of life. He talked a lot about his horses, and breeding horses, and Mick, his son who is karting, and I’ve got some grandchildren now, so we talked about kids, too. There are always some old stories that come out but we didn’t make a specific commitment to do anything because, quite frankly, at that stage I thought we were going to keep Jenson at what was going to be Mercedes. It was only when things looked as though they wouldn’t happen with Jenson – I was on holiday in Mauritius when Jenson made that infamous visit to McLaren – that we said, well, what do we do? I rang Michael, spoke to him, explained the situation and said ‘If you’re interested we can talk’. He wanted a few days to reflect on it and then we started again from there.”


What sort of Michael Schumacher did he begin to work with, I wondered?

“The whole thing was a little bit different because my role at Mercedes is different from that at Ferrari. At Ferrari it was a very technical-based role – I was Technical Director – but at Mercedes I am in a general Team Principal role. At Ferrari I would never deal with the drivers’ specific issues, problems, contracts and so forth. I would be asked my opinion but I didn’t deal with them first hand. Here, with Nick Fry, I have to deal with that side. So my professional relationship is different – and our relationship reflects that difference.

“What there is, is trust,” continued Ross thoughtfully. “There’s trust between the people I know. I trust Michael with the things he tells me about the car. And he trusts me with the things that help him to understand the team. That trust is pretty consistent and I don’t think either of us would do anything consciously to damage that trust. That’s something that has been born over many years. I’m proud to say that I believe that I have the trust of Michael and I certainly trust him. Possibly as a team where we’ve had a bit of a void is that no-one has stepped into those shoes for ‘me’ in this team and therefore there’s been a bit of a void in that area. Now Bob Bell has joined us as Technical Director and he is filling that void.”


And now the touchy subject: I suggest to Ross that there was/is a public perception that he and Michael together couldn’t have produced anything other than a great car. That, after all, is what the Ross/Michael relationship used to be all about….

“I understand that perception,” replied Ross, “but the reality is that cars are born 12, 18 months before you see them. The car we ran last year was conceived long before Michael joined us. Trying to win the Championship in 09 with a pretty slimmed-down team didn’t leave a lot to spare for the build of a good car for 2010. I think our 2011 car is not bad. It’s the first car designed by John Owen, our new Chief Designer; it’s the first complete car he’s designed. So I think it’s pretty impressive but it’s not where we want to be. John’s next car will for sure be a lot better. So we’re a team in transition but a team that for me is transitioning in a very upward direction. And Michael is helping us achieve that, helping us build the team.

“Michael is very involved with visiting the factory, with working with the engineers, with helping them understand where we’ve got to focus. And because he’s got such charisma everyone listens! Nico Rosberg is also very effective in this role but of course Michael is this iconic character and when he comes to the factory people listen. He does present things in a way that forces people to challenge him. He doesn’t just want to say ‘do this, this and this’; he wants people to challenge him and to understand why. It’s rare for him to say ‘look, you must change this because I think it will solve the problem’. He presents the problem and then debates with the engineers about how the problem could be solved. He doesn’t have many pre-conceived ideas about how things should be. He has a good, open mind. He provokes debate, provokes discussion. He’s very good in this respect.”


“Pretty good” may yet stand as the understatement of the year. Even so, I also asked Ross how Michael has handled the speed of Nico – how he has reacted to Nico’s usual advantage of 0.2-0.3sec per lap. And why is this so? What does it mean? I’m one of those people who loves watching great racing drivers work their way out of a trough. I don’t condemn Michael for returning; I enjoy the detail of how he is attempting to maximize his situation, given Nico’s speed, those 42 years and the car’s obvious limitations. How, though, does Ross see it?

“First, Nico is doing a fantastic job,” he replies. “He’s set a very high reference for Michael to match and beat. And we’ve not done a great car this year, as I say. We’re struggling a bit with the rear tyres, we’re struggling with rear tyre consistency, we’re having to look at how we set the car up to look after that situation. Whether this moves more towards Michael than Nico – or vice versa – I don’t know. The car is far from ideal but I think now we understand the Pirellis; we understand certain things about where we are so we should be able to make strong progress in that area for next year.

“One of the things I’ve been conscious of is not having the polarity of Ross/Michael in the team. I’ve tried to have as balanced an approach as I can. Nico was very concerned when he heard Michael was coming into the team, because we do have a long history and we have had a lot of success in the past. I spent quite a lot of time with Nico, explaining why we would have a balanced approach and at the end of the day it is your actions not your words that demonstrate how you’re going to run a team. Nico has relaxed enormously now that he sees how we run it. I think Nico at any moment would say that he’s able to make a contribution, that he’s listened-to, that he has exactly the same equipment. There’s no alignment in any way towards Michael.

“Where Michael has helped is with his very professional, very experienced approach. Nico is a smart guy. He looks at it. He learns. He quietly watches what goes on. And I’m sure it rubs off on him. And I’m sure that Michael has learned from Nico, too, so it’s not just one-way traffic.”


I persist: why the speed differential? From where does it mostly come?

“That’s a very good question!” says Ross ruefully. “Michael pores over the data trying work out where Nico’s speed comes from. They both apex the corner at similar speeds, so it’s the way you enter and exit that chips away at those hundredths of a second that accumulate into a gain. You couldn’t pick a spot or an aspect of a corner and say ‘Nico brakes better than Michael’ or is ‘better in traction’; he just puts a corner together a little bit better than Michael in terms of braking and turning-in. And that’s a reflection on how good Nico is. He has progressed over the last few years. The reason we asked him to join the team is that we were all impressed with him at Williams but he was a little less consistent there at times. But here he has been really consistent and has fitted in well.”

Which begs the question of the man who knows him best: is Michael as quick as he was?

“I don’t know, to be honest. You lose your references. What I do know is that we haven’t produced the car that we had back in the Ferrari days – the type of cars we had back then. When we get the car we should have, when we get the competitive car, maybe that will change the performance differentials that sometimes exist between Michael and Nico. I don’t know. I don’t know where our reference is. What you know you have to achieve is a car that is good enough to win races. That’s the critical point.”

And a point well-made. We’ll see if Michael is still a winning driver when he drives again a winning car. Until then, he is working at it – with Ross; until then, the most successful partnership in the history of F1 is alive, working hard – and still full of hope and trust.


I finish by asking Ross about his feelings about F1. Sabatical over, will he become a latter-day Sir Frank Williams, eating, sleeping and drinking his F1 life until the end of time?

“Well, I’m still going to take holidays! I’m not quite as addicted as Frank as to motor racing. Frank was in many ways unlucky with his accident but in many ways lucky with his passion for motor racing. That for sure has kept him going. I have massive admiration for Frank for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is that he gave me my first break in motor racing. I’m not as addicted to motor racing as Frank and I do take breaks when I can, and spend some time with my family. Which for me I need to do in order to keep that enthusiasm going and the desire to carry on. It is swinging your legs out of bed in the morning and wanting to go to work and as long as I want to do that then I’ll continue doing it. There may come a day when I think, ‘actually, I’m not doing as good a job as I want to because my enthusiasm has ebbed’. And strangely enough, when you’re in a position like we are this year, when we’re not good enough – that is when I seem to get most of my enthusiasm. When you’re there, winning races, then it almost looks a bit too easy. It’s great. You’re getting rewards for your hard work but somehow it doesn’t quite drive you. My decision to stop at Ferrari was made at the peak of our successes. And I certainly won’t walk away from our team until we have achieved our ambitions. And then I’ll step back and reflect.

“We’ve kept the house in Italy and we very much enjoy our time in Italy. My wife and family go over there more often than I am able to but Italians still remain incredibly friendly.“But England is my home and, particularly now that my wife and I have grandchildren, it makes it even more of a magnetic attraction.”



http://www.theracedr...stays-the-same/

#11013 ivand911

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 20:58

Peter Windsor's interview with Ross Brawn about Michael Schumacher
http://www.theracedr...stays-the-same/

Good interview. :up:


#11014 Pits

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 21:04

Peter Windsor's interview with Ross Brawn about Michael Schumacher


Veri nice interview, I like the part about trusting each other's skills and commitment. :)

#11015 weston

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 22:00

Peter Windsor's interview with Ross Brawn about Michael Schumacher

http://www.theracedr...stays-the-same/


Thanks for the link. Great article.

#11016 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 22:26

And if he was in the Red Bull, McLaren or Ferrari, what do you suppose he would be doing?

I guarantee he wouldn't be beating Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso.

neither are Webber, Button or Massa

Webber and Massa are embarrassingly slower sometimes

#11017 BRK

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 07:40

Great interview, thanks for posting, merschu! That's one of the things I've always admired about Michael, his dispassionate, logical approach and knowing just the right thing to say at the right moment -it's a pleasure working with intelligent, open-minded people that know exactly what they're talking about and from that interview it looks as though nothing has changed in years between Ross and Michael or their working relationship. Good stuff.

#11018 tifosiMac

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:08

A great interview and it certainly puts a few things into perspective for many I think. I hope Mercedes get it right for next season in terms of the car as I still would like to see Michael challenging at the front with Nico, Lewis, Seb, Fernando, and Button.

#11019 ali.unal

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:20

I get the impression (always do) that Michael will sort out its 0,2s deficit to Nico if he has a winning car, which may mean that Michael is looking for a motivation for the win, not the car itself. Deficit to Nico might down to psychological.

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#11020 ivand911

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 18:16

I get the impression (always do) that Michael will sort out its 0,2s deficit to Nico if he has a winning car, which may mean that Michael is looking for a motivation for the win, not the car itself. Deficit to Nico might down to psychological.

I guess you are right. Shit car will hardly motivate him.


#11021 Clatter

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 18:25

I guess you are right. Shit car will hardly motivate him.


Crap car or not, beating your teammate should be motivation enough. If it's not and your just going through the motions you shouldn't be in the car at all.

#11022 ivand911

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 18:31

Crap car or not, beating your teammate should be motivation enough. If it's not and your just going through the motions you shouldn't be in the car at all.

Yes, if you are talking about Buemi or Jaime or Koba or Sutil or Nico or, you get the picture? Some seven time WDC are off the limits.


#11023 Clatter

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 18:35

Yes, if you are talking about Buemi or Jaime or Koba or Sutil or Nico or, you get the picture? Some seven time WDC are off the limits.


Personally I think thats nonsense. He cannot and nor should his fans use his past results as an excuse for not giving it all now. IMHO he is giving all he can, it's just that it's not enough.

#11024 Kubiccia

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 18:40

What to expect from 4th best car? Not much. Only if you are lucky. This is what happen with the guys who have 4th best car.

I am saying comparatively to Nico, who's not a special driver.

We have seen from both Merc drivers that, in qualifying at least, they're getting the most out of their cars. The car cannot be any faster and in reality there is very little to seperate the two.

you don't know that, nobody does.


In fact, one can know. In last qualifying, it was clear that there was more to come from the car. Nico made seemed to have extracted all he could from the car but Schumi's Q3 time was merely a tenth faster than his FP2 time. The track rubbering and car qualifying mode would alone give much more than a tenth. Not to mention the fact that we don't even know if he was on 3 laps fuel in the FP2 lap.

It's not a guess, Mercedes had potential for quite a lot more than Nico's time, Schumi's FP2 driving would put him much ahead of Nico in a qualifying condition.

#11025 Sakae

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 19:18

Crap car or not, beating your teammate should be motivation enough. If it's not and your just going through the motions you shouldn't be in the car at all.

I am not a mind-reader, but I would not be too suprised to learn, that Michael is racing against his own expectations, and could not give a second thought where Rosberg is. Nico is not his benchmark, and if you think he is, than you do not know probably much about Schumacher.


Another topic / other posters - I also think that to make a claim (as some seems to be suggesting) that he is not extracting all out of the car is rather a statement with big words, and potentially of very little substance. Margin between drivers is small, tire grip variability can overlap that, and only what we see is Michael not totally being comfortable with tires or with the car. For some reason Nico is happier with it and good for him, but things are too volatile to write Schumacher completely off.

I do agree with Ross, that Michael did not forget how to drive, he did not loose on race craft or the speed; the vehicle is simply like a shoe that doesn't fits him well. I think that Webber is experiencing similar thing in RBR. If the car gets stable, instead sliding in turns, and it shall go where you aim, that will be a day when we see him also back in full charge.

Edited by Sakae, 06 July 2011 - 19:22.


#11026 baddog

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 21:26

In an interesting comment in Canada (Which I cannot now find :( ), Michael gave some insight into a change in his thinking and approach to practice sessions and earlier qualifying sessions, and a change in those. Basically it read as he is going to be more aggressive rather than approaching them as a purely technical prep, in order to avoid being in a position where he seems to others, and maybe feels, behind the ball when the real stuff starts. i.e. he was losing a psychological edge by not worrying about ego and position before it should technically matter.

That ties in with what happened in both Canada and Valencia in the pre-race.. for once he seemed ahead not behind on 'whole weekend' pace.

This may however be bullshit, we shall see in coming weeks heh

#11027 as65p

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 21:50

I am not a mind-reader, but I would not be too suprised to learn, that Michael is racing against his own expectations, and could not give a second thought where Rosberg is. Nico is not his benchmark, and if you think he is, than you do not know probably much about Schumacher.


That's strange, I think the direct opposite. Anyone who believes MS doesn't care about being beaten by his teammate can't know that much about the man.

#11028 Clatter

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 22:00

I am not a mind-reader, but I would not be too suprised to learn, that Michael is racing against his own expectations, and could not give a second thought where Rosberg is. Nico is not his benchmark, and if you think he is, than you do not know probably much about Schumacher.


Another topic / other posters - I also think that to make a claim (as some seems to be suggesting) that he is not extracting all out of the car is rather a statement with big words, and potentially of very little substance. Margin between drivers is small, tire grip variability can overlap that, and only what we see is Michael not totally being comfortable with tires or with the car. For some reason Nico is happier with it and good for him, but things are too volatile to write Schumacher completely off.

I do agree with Ross, that Michael did not forget how to drive, he did not loose on race craft or the speed; the vehicle is simply like a shoe that doesn't fits him well. I think that Webber is experiencing similar thing in RBR. If the car gets stable, instead sliding in turns, and it shall go where you aim, that will be a day when we see him also back in full charge.


I disagree. Your teammate is very much your benchmark. If your slow in comparison then questions will be asked because it means your not getting the best from the car.

#11029 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 02:10

I am not convinced that MS needs NR for him to know whether his car and his own technique is best as it can under any conditions. On the contrary, I think he is using his own experience and instinct to identify causes for his less than perfect lap times, or race performance, because he knows after many years in competitive racing which elements are slowing him down on the track. Once he realizes that his own senses let him down, and he cannot read the situation, then he will probably quit, because age caught up with him, but I think he is not at that point yet.

If my theory is wrong, than as soon as he will clock faster lap times than Nico, than he would lean back, relaxed, yet we all know it's not true. He will never relax, even if he leads RBR by several seconds on the first lap, because that's the true Schumacher for you.

Nico Rosberg is not good enough benchmark for him, inconsequential bystander to his effort, because NR's performance is not why he came back out of retirement, and as long there are another eight people ahead of him, only P1 is his benchmark, and free air in the front of him when lights go off; that's what drives him, and not where on the track is his garage co-habitant.

(Anyway, IMHO).

Edited by Sakae, 07 July 2011 - 02:14.


#11030 Muz Bee

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:20

So much rubbish gets written in Michael's defence here, it's like getting objectivity from the Spanish fans on Alonso or Jorge Lorenzo.

Clearly Michael found something to his liking in the car, the conditions at Canada and he drove well, very well in fact. No longer being a fan of his doesn't mean I can't acknowledge what is clearly true but his fans drone on about how being beaten by Nico is somehow irrelevant and that the car and the tactics and the.... dadedadeda. Really embarassing, same old s#^*&!

Michael's fortunes may be on a genuine upswing or it could be normal transmission at Silverstone, we'll have to wait and see. Time stands still for no man, it's nothing like "he suddenly forgot how to be quick" that we are arguing (in his defence what's more!).

#11031 BRK

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:41

So much rubbish gets written in Michael's defence here, it's like getting objectivity from the Spanish fans on Alonso or Jorge Lorenzo.


Or from your average Schumacher bashing hater, people that go to ridiculous lengths to play down his achievements and post rubbish.

#11032 ivand911

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:00

Schumacher Ranch Switzerland 02/07/11
http://motorsport.ne...her-ranch-1.php
http://www.wri2.net/stories.aspx
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Edited by ivand911, 07 July 2011 - 13:29.


#11033 Chezrome

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:36

Frankly I think MS was already losing some speed back in 2005 or 2006; another 5 years has seen him lose a bit more. I'd be amazed if he's not at least ½ second slower than 10 years ago, and probably nearer a second off his 1993-2002 peak decade.

That spell in Canada was wonderful, just like old times, but as you say I think it won't happen too often.


A second slower than 10 years ago? That means that the 'normal' old Schumacher would beat Rosberg with more than a second every qualifying?

I don't believe it. You?







#11034 swiniodzik

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:53

It's funny how the roles have reversed with the Schumacher fans and detractors since the first stint of his career. Back in the Benetton and Ferrari days the fans were very vocal about how important the driver is in the overall scheme of things, with the detractors trying to point out how important the car and other external circumstances are. Now in the Mercedes era the car and circumstances have suddenly become very important for the fans while the human factor has icreased greatly for the detractors.

I think the truth about Michael, as it often does, probably lies somewhere in the middle. He probably never was a driver as great as his first stint stats suggest and many of his fans would like us to believe he was, but neither was his success inflated by things other than the man's own talent and abilities to such a degree we're being said it was by some of the detractors.

#11035 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 11:03

We do not have a situation yet on the track that car will win on its own, or inversely, driver will win on his own in normal conditions on the track. I do question the notion some had expressed in here that in equal cars a driver that is ahead of his teammate is the one who committed less amount of mistakes. Equipment is never he same, regardless of name and color, and on the track where 0.001 sec can make difference, machinery inequality between cars can play a decisive role. Schumacher's frame of mind,competitiveness, and focus on the target has been legendary over the years, and I do not think that has changed three years after he returned. Mature fans can (or should?) understand that. Focus is to win, not just to beat the junior teammate.

Edited by Sakae, 07 July 2011 - 11:05.


#11036 SparkPlug

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 11:13

That's strange, I think the direct opposite. Anyone who believes MS doesn't care about being beaten by his teammate can't know that much about the man.

+1.

Making that statement (that Schumacher is not bothered with where Nico is in comparison) is simply trying to downplay the fact that Rosberg has simply been better than Schumacher in the past 2 seasons. Anyone with even a sole championship, forget 7 will have a very close watch on his teammate, because its a matter of pride more than anything else. Its simply wrong to state that Schumacher doesnt care about beating Rosberg. He quite simply has to (care).



#11037 Tardis40

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 11:15

Schumacher Ranch Switzerland 02/07/11
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Hey, that horse is the wrong color !!!

#11038 george1981

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 11:42

I always thought that Schumacher was sometimes .1s-.2s slower than the fastest driver in the field over 1 lap in a car straight out of the box. Someone like Hakkinen or Montoya could always edge him. But what Schumacher may have lacked in absolute speed he made up for with car development and set up together with consistancy in the races.

#11039 differential

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 13:35

I always thought that Schumacher was sometimes .1s-.2s slower than the fastest driver in the field over 1 lap in a car straight out of the box. Someone like Hakkinen or Montoya could always edge him. But what Schumacher may have lacked in absolute speed he made up for with car development and set up together with consistancy in the races.

I don't agree with the Hakkinen comparison: there are countless amount of times where schumacher in an inferior car was faster than the superior mclaren of Hakk.

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#11040 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 15:47

+1.

Making that statement (that Schumacher is not bothered with where Nico is in comparison) is simply trying to downplay the fact that Rosberg has simply been better than Schumacher in the past 2 seasons. Anyone with even a sole championship, forget 7 will have a very close watch on his teammate, because its a matter of pride more than anything else. Its simply wrong to state that Schumacher doesnt care about beating Rosberg. He quite simply has to (care).

One opinion against other, but your view is not even close to the image I have of a man that I watch from the distance since 1991.

#11041 Clatter

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 17:55

I am not convinced that MS needs NR for him to know whether his car and his own technique is best as it can under any conditions. On the contrary, I think he is using his own experience and instinct to identify causes for his less than perfect lap times, or race performance, because he knows after many years in competitive racing which elements are slowing him down on the track. Once he realizes that his own senses let him down, and he cannot read the situation, then he will probably quit, because age caught up with him, but I think he is not at that point yet.

If my theory is wrong, than as soon as he will clock faster lap times than Nico, than he would lean back, relaxed, yet we all know it's not true. He will never relax, even if he leads RBR by several seconds on the first lap, because that's the true Schumacher for you.

Nico Rosberg is not good enough benchmark for him, inconsequential bystander to his effort, because NR's performance is not why he came back out of retirement, and as long there are another eight people ahead of him, only P1 is his benchmark, and free air in the front of him when lights go off; that's what drives him, and not where on the track is his garage co-habitant.

(Anyway, IMHO).


P1 is the target, but not the benchmark because they are not using the same machinery. You can only sensible benchmark someone who is using the same kit as you are.

#11042 Juan Kerr

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 18:12

I seems to me that Schumacher is getting a little stronger every race. Which isn't strange after a long sabatical he's had. He has worked himself up to an equal level as Rosberg, which he wasn't last year. I feel there is still more to come from Schumacher, but the car has got to improve a lot.

Its just car setup and equipment, its got nothing to do with the drivers pace.

#11043 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 18:18

Performance benchmark is whatever you select as best practice. I do not wish to play semantics, but within F1 racing (industry), currently best is duo Vettel/RBR, and therefore suitable choice how Schumacher evaluates his position. (I guess). He could select NR, but I doubt that, honestly.

#11044 DutchCruijff

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 18:42

"I always had the option to stop at any time I wanted. But I aim for an achievement and a fixed time. I have always said it's a three-year programme and that's what it is."

I hope that doesn't mean he won't take up the 2013 offer.

#11045 glorius&victorius

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 19:02

Time for a change of helmet scheme!

there is too much "Ferrari" on his current helmet... he needs to go back to his original scheme when he came into F1.
That will bring his mojo back!

Edited by glorius&victorius, 07 July 2011 - 19:03.


#11046 differential

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 19:29

"I always had the option to stop at any time I wanted. But I aim for an achievement and a fixed time. I have always said it's a three-year programme and that's what it is."

I hope that doesn't mean he won't take up the 2013 offer.


"But I aim for an achievement.." pretty sure that means he'll be back next year.

#11047 Tardis40

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 19:43

Schumacher Ranch Switzerland 02/07/11
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http://www.wri2.net/stories.aspx
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Where's your six-shooter, Mike.


#11048 Boing 2

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 20:03

Performance benchmark is whatever you select as best practice. I do not wish to play semantics, but within F1 racing (industry), currently best is duo Vettel/RBR, and therefore suitable choice how Schumacher evaluates his position. (I guess). He could select NR, but I doubt that, honestly.


your first target is to get 100% from the car, the second target is to get the car up to race winning speed. If you are going consistently slower than your team mate you are failing at the first target.

#11049 Number62

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 20:39

Performance benchmark is whatever you select as best practice. I do not wish to play semantics, but within F1 racing (industry), currently best is duo Vettel/RBR, and therefore suitable choice how Schumacher evaluates his position. (I guess). He could select NR, but I doubt that, honestly.


In that case he's currently the tenth best racing driver in formula one.

#11050 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 22:06

By definition, in the industry you select for benchmarking leaders in your given field, not people who have the same resources like numbers of employees, budget, staplers, etc. I think Michael knows what he is doing.

Edited by Sakae, 07 July 2011 - 22:07.