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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#11051 Kubiccia

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 23:20

I always thought that Schumacher was sometimes .1s-.2s slower than the fastest driver in the field over 1 lap in a car straight out of the box. Someone like Hakkinen or Montoya could always edge him. But what Schumacher may have lacked in absolute speed he made up for with car development and set up together with consistancy in the races.

I don't agree with the Hakkinen comparison: there are countless amount of times where schumacher in an inferior car was faster than the superior mclaren of Hakk.


MOntoya was oftenly slower than Ralf and Kimi(the one slower than Massa). George's post is ridicolous. Schumi could beat Senna many times in qualifying despite having inferior car.
The raw pace of the guy was amazing, maybe you follow F1 for a shorter time and the Michelin qualy tires made you think Schumi was not that fast in qualifying.

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#11052 Sakae

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:54

Silverstone, FP1 - Michael on his return never been in P2. He must be scratching his head. (Guys probably saving tires again).

#11053 Frans

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:00

call it .... G-L-O-R-Y r-u-n ..... because that's what it was. no fuel, new tires ... pfffft. I hope he is happy with his P2. Jos Verstappen became P1 in an Minardi once, so come ON schu, can you do?

Edited by Frans, 08 July 2011 - 11:01.


#11054 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:14

no fuel? wow :)

btw, how's Jos? :))

#11055 arknor

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:16

call it .... G-L-O-R-Y r-u-n ..... because that's what it was. no fuel, new tires ... pfffft. I hope he is happy with his P2. Jos Verstappen became P1 in an Minardi once, so come ON schu, can you do?

i heard jos the boss once won a formula one race and then he woke up on his bed :wave:

btw the jos thread is here http://forums.autosp...showtopic=26370 quietly waiting for you

Edited by arknor, 08 July 2011 - 11:27.


#11056 FlashMaster

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:41

call it .... G-L-O-R-Y r-u-n ..... because that's what it was. no fuel, new tires ... pfffft. I hope he is happy with his P2. Jos Verstappen became P1 in an Minardi once, so come ON schu, can you do?


Is Jos the toss still standing in the gravel pit or did he do a Vercrasheren today? Poor guy

#11057 BRK

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:51

call it .... G-L-O-R-Y r-u-n ..... because that's what it was. no fuel, new tires ... pfffft. I hope he is happy with his P2. Jos Verstappen became P1 in an Minardi once, so come ON schu, can you do?


Wrong again. Though you seem to be more concerned with Friday running that most of the rest of us in here.

BTW, life has an odd way of letting you know when you're badly wrong: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=150621

 ;)



#11058 FlashMaster

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 12:21

Wrong again. Though you seem to be more concerned with Friday running that most of the rest of us in here.

BTW, life has an odd way of letting you know when you're badly wrong: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=150621

;)


Karma :cool:

#11059 Augurk

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 14:17

Too bad Michael didn't try the inters. He was good on the wets though!

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#11060 EdwardCullen

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 14:32

He was on par with the superior Redbulls on wets :up:
good form

#11061 spacekid

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 14:46

Michael looks decent enough in wet conditions this year, pre season testing included, and I think is faster than Rosberg in the wet.

Which gives me a question - why is Schumi faster in the wet, but Rosberg faster in the dry? It must be a characteristic of the 2011 cars that favours one driving style in the wet and another in the dry. Can Michael learn from this how to improve his dry weather pace?

#11062 George Costanza

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 14:56

Michael looks decent enough in wet conditions this year, pre season testing included, and I think is faster than Rosberg in the wet.

Which gives me a question - why is Schumi faster in the wet, but Rosberg faster in the dry? It must be a characteristic of the 2011 cars that favours one driving style in the wet and another in the dry. Can Michael learn from this how to improve his dry weather pace?


It's rather easy because Michael Schumacher is likely the greatest rain driver of all time, except for possibly Ayrton Senna, and he can adapt to the wet conditions well.

#11063 EdwardCullen

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 14:59

Michael looks decent enough in wet conditions this year, pre season testing included, and I think is faster than Rosberg in the wet.

Which gives me a question - why is Schumi faster in the wet, but Rosberg faster in the dry? It must be a characteristic of the 2011 cars that favours one driving style in the wet and another in the dry. Can Michael learn from this how to improve his dry weather pace?

Schumy has always been good in wet weather, and conditions where there is always uncertainty
Thats not coz the car favors a driving style in wet.

In wet the ability to feel the road and play with throttle and driver input matters alot

In short in modern era
In Wet condition driver 70% car 30%

In dry condition Driver 30% car 70%

#11064 spacekid

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 15:06

Hmmm. Thanks guys but I think there's more to it. Whether wet or dry the driver has an input, if driver input is more in the wet and Michael shows a clear advantage over Nico there, then why not in the dry? If Michaels not as fast as he used to be then that should be exagerated in the wet, but thats not what we're seeing.

Maybe Nico just isn't much cop in the wet. Because he has tended to have the edge on pace in dry weather conditions.

#11065 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 15:12

Michael has recently looked as fast in dry also...
remember the qualy gaps are getting close to 0 and the trend is clear

#11066 EdwardCullen

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 18:18

Hmmm. Thanks guys but I think there's more to it. Whether wet or dry the driver has an input, if driver input is more in the wet and Michael shows a clear advantage over Nico there, then why not in the dry? If Michaels not as fast as he used to be then that should be exagerated in the wet, but thats not what we're seeing.

Maybe Nico just isn't much cop in the wet. Because he has tended to have the edge on pace in dry weather conditions.

maybe you should search on internet about the difference of driving in wet and dry and the impact of too much electronics in modern f1

#11067 spacekid

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 18:38

maybe you should search on internet about the difference of driving in wet and dry and the impact of too much electronics in modern f1


I hope it wasn't meant to be, but your reply comes across as a little rude Edward. I've been watching F1 for many decades and Schumi watching his whole career. I know how wet and dry driving works. I know about modern F1, and older F1 too. Its interesting that F1 arguably technically peaked in 1992 in terms of too many electronics, but never mind.

Ok here's what I was getting at, and its about traction. Martin Brundle was recently talking about driving the 2011 cars and he noted that they have the least traction coming out of the corners of F1 cars that he has driven. Schumis driving style always used to be about being able to carry maximum speed through the whole corner, holding the line with the throttle and then driving away. In his interview Ross Brawn said that Nico and Michael have similar apex speeds, but that Nico is making up the hundreths of a second elsewhere in the corner and it all adds up to a couple of tenths a second. So that got me thinking. Perhaps Michaels driving style isn't working quite so well with these cars because the engines power band isn't where he needs it to be to make his driving style work? And rainy conditions place the car back into an operational zone that allows him to extract a greater % of performance.

It was a half formed idea I admit, just something I have been mulling over. I hoped some of you guys might have had similar thoughts about why Michael is a shade off Nico in the dry but able to do better in the wet. If its all just modern cars and driving aids that doesn't really explain Nicos pace advantage. Maybe I should just go 'check on the internet'. But y'know, this being a Schumi thread on an F1 site it seemed like the place to start.

#11068 Disgrace

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 19:45

Don't know about you guys, but aside from the Saubers, Schumacher seemed to be in the least amount of control of anyone out there. Great to watch, nonetheless.

Edited by Disgrace, 08 July 2011 - 19:45.


#11069 iakhtar

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 19:54

Whenever I see him driving like that I just figure he's exploring the limits, esp in the wet, usually pays off for him too.

#11070 spacekid

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 19:59

Don't know about you guys, but aside from the Saubers, Schumacher seemed to be in the least amount of control of anyone out there. Great to watch, nonetheless.


Its hard to tell. I know what you mean, Schumi had a few twitches on track, but in the FP2 coverage I saw everyone had moments. It could be that the coverage and cameramen focused om the cars that were sliding. I didn't really see any extended footage of Schumi. The times were good, but obviously meaningless, I have no idea who was pushing or just collecting data, but Schumi has been pretty good on the wet Pirellis.

#11071 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 20:45

I hope it will be a wet/semi-wet race on Sunday. I'm working (bah humbug!) and usually when it's raining I get very little customers through the door; this means I'll be able to watch the race in its entirety :D

#11072 differential

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 20:49

I hope it will be a wet/semi-wet race on Sunday. I'm working (bah humbug!) and usually when it's raining I get very little customers through the door; this means I'll be able to watch the race in its entirety :D


Well I don't think even weather forecasts can predict a certain bone dry race the weather keeps changing constantly.. sun, rain, sun, rain etc!

#11073 Longtimefan

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 22:04

Time for a change of helmet scheme!

there is too much "Ferrari" on his current helmet... he needs to go back to his original scheme when he came into F1.
That will bring his mojo back!


You know that actually makes sense to me.. come on Schumi, go back to your original colours!



#11074 oetzi

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 22:26

Just to add my two pennies.

From mid 94 to at least mid 05 Schumacher would have been the first choice for almost every team principal if money was no object.

Right now, I reckon almost all of them would take him as one of two if money was no object.

So he's not where he was, but still worth a seat, won't get any worse over the next couple of years and might get better as he gets back into the groove.

#11075 differential

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 22:59

Just to add my two pennies.

From mid 94 to at least mid 05 Schumacher would have been the first choice for almost every team principal if money was no object.

Right now, I reckon almost all of them would take him as one of two if money was no object.

So he's not where he was, but still worth a seat, won't get any worse over the next couple of years and might get better as he gets back into the groove.


I think driving well in the rain is a pretty good sign that schumi is getting better (shows he still has those reactions/reflexes).

If you look at this starts in races: over 90%+ of the time theyve been very good. Whereas before he used to pretty much suck at starting.

Edited by differential, 08 July 2011 - 23:00.


#11076 Kubiccia

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 00:46

In his interview Ross Brawn said that Nico and Michael have similar apex speeds, but that Nico is making up the hundreths of a second elsewhere in the corner and it all adds up to a couple of tenths a second. So that got me thinking. Perhaps Michaels driving style isn't working quite so well with these cars because the engines power band isn't where he needs it to be to make his driving style work? And rainy conditions place the car back into an operational zone that allows him to extract a greater % of performance.

can you post a link of this interview, please?

I think driving well in the rain is a pretty good sign that schumi is getting better (shows he still has those reactions/reflexes).


I don't know if driving slower in the wet require more reflexes, I think it require more of an atitude and a knowledgge on which line to take to make the best in a wet track.

#11077 arknor

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:59

can you post a link of this interview, please?



I don't know if driving slower in the wet require more reflexes, I think it require more of an atitude and a knowledgge on which line to take to make the best in a wet track.

surely its more to do with car control , how you turn in and how you apply the throttle on a less grippy surface which you would think would require more car control than on a sticky dry track

#11078 BRK

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:19

Watching a BBC stream for FP3, Murray Walker saying how he is an unabashed fan of Schumacher: one legend to another. :up:

#11079 Augurk

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:43

Crap.

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#11080 topical

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:45

oh Michael.... :lol:

#11081 arknor

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:45

Crap.

had a bad feeling when he was in the pitts for so long probably had no temprature in his tyres , all the midfield teams who stayed out on long runs seemed to do well.... ill take that as they had tyres upto temprature.

2tenths behind hamilton , 3 tenths behind vettel.

im prrtty confident only alonso , webber and massa ewere out long enough to get any temprature in the tyres out of the top teams

Edited by arknor, 09 July 2011 - 12:47.


#11082 spacekid

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:46

No big joy from this Schumi fan.

That was crap.

#11083 cutchemist42

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:46

Well that was....

#11084 Augurk

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:46

had a bad feeling when he was in the pitts for so long probably had no temprature in his tyres , all the midfield teams who stayed out on long runs seemed to do well.... ill take that as they had tyres upto temprature

Ah well it was just a bit of a lottery. 4 tenths faster and he'd been 4th. Expect a nice drive from the midfield tomorrow (provided he can avoid crashtest dummies!) :up:

#11085 Urawa

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:05

I´m not even disappointed today. Car is still crap in dry conditions, 1,5-2 sec off Red Bull in their supposed "best" discipline (qualifying). Jesus.
Hope for mixed conditions tomorrow and a Montreal repeat.

Edited by Urawa, 09 July 2011 - 13:06.


#11086 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:10

He said he went out too early. Tires gone.

At least he has some new tires for tomorrow.

#11087 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:14

I was really sour for a while there, because it was another bit of poor decisionmaking, but Michael's relaxed expression eased my nerves.

It's worth mentioning that Nico came out only a few seconds later, but did well not to push in his first lap - whether it was on purpose or not, I don't know.

#11088 Kubiccia

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:14

Stupid strategy. When the track had better grip, his tires were gone. Nico did his lap on the right time.

Schumi is making it really easy to Nico. Rosberg is a farse, even DiResta, Maldonado and Koba could beat him in inferior cars.

#11089 BRK

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:16

Q2 was crazy, someone was going to lose out in that traffic packed lottery. His final effort wasn't good enough, but looking at Rosberg's time I wonder if he caught a slower car ahead of him or made a mistake somewhere with the shot tyres.

Not concerned at all, I think the race tomorrow will be a bit more normal and he'll have a chance to make up places. Plus if there's mixed conditions.. :D

Looking forward, either way!

Edited by BRK, 09 July 2011 - 13:17.


#11090 Urawa

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:18

If we consider their usual race form they´ll fight for the lowest points, 9th and 10th, tomorrow.
The Sauber are starting around them and will surely make up ground with the superior tyre management & might even save 1 stop.
It´s a fight against the FI´s again I guess.

Edited by Urawa, 09 July 2011 - 13:19.


#11091 weston

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:51

If we consider their usual race form they´ll fight for the lowest points, 9th and 10th, tomorrow.
The Sauber are starting around them and will surely make up ground with the superior tyre management & might even save 1 stop.
It´s a fight against the FI´s again I guess.



... and Petrov!

#11092 differential

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 15:38

If we consider their usual race form they´ll fight for the lowest points, 9th and 10th, tomorrow.
The Sauber are starting around them and will surely make up ground with the superior tyre management & might even save 1 stop.
It´s a fight against the FI´s again I guess.


If it rains then...

#11093 Urawa

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 11:05

If it rains then...


It´s on :cool:

#11094 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 11:09

It´s on :cool:

:rotfl: :clap:

#11095 ramad

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 11:12

:rotfl: :clap:

:clap: :clap: :kiss:

#11096 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 11:18

:clap: :clap: :kiss:


Lets hope the rain remains a constant theme throughout the race.
:clap:

#11097 ClubmanGT

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:33

Ugh. Another race, another bad call by the stewards. If he were Hamilton, Button or anyone else, he'd wouldn't have been penalised.

#11098 spacekid

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:33

Pathetic decision to give Michael a stop go for that, I'm really angry :mad:

He was doing great in tough conditions. Lots of cars were sliding and losing it, look at Hamilton and Massa. Schumi just lost it when there was another car to collect.

Thats ruined his race. Shame, he was driving great in these conditions apart from that one slip.

10 second stop too, not just a drive through. Pathetic.

Edited by spacekid, 10 July 2011 - 12:34.


#11099 Tarzaan

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:35

Who is that monkey(ex-driver) who help the race control today?

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#11100 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:35

Hamilton no penalty for same type of accident, Schumi penalty. Not to mention the idiotic Di resta penalty.


Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu