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#11201 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:26

EJ bashing is a disgrace! Who does this guy think he is?


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#11202 arknor

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:27

That's the nature of backmarkers though, isn't it.

they arent backmarkers if your racing for position with them though are they

EJ bashing is a disgrace! Who does this guy think he is?

you know EJ posts on these forums? its frans

Edited by arknor, 10 July 2011 - 14:27.


#11203 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:28

It appears that Rosberg finished about 17 seconds in front of Schumacher.


Is that all?
:rotfl: :stoned:


#11204 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:29

you know EJ posts on these forums? its frans


I guess
:drunk:

#11205 Anssi

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:30

But Michael had to cruise with no wing and do a stop and go. You do the math.



He had no front wing because he destroyed it. He also caused the penalty by himself.

Edited by Anssi, 10 July 2011 - 14:31.


#11206 VresiBerba

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:30

If so, you haven´t watched the race properly

So I missed it, is that so hard to comprehend. If you have a problem with that, why don't you try to explain what you mean instead of firing off tiresome soundbites and one-liners?

#11207 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:31

He had no front wing because he destroyed it.

Thats totally besides the point: the point is nico's pace compared to schumi's was crap. Do you agree?

#11208 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:31

So I missed it, is that so hard to comprehend. If you have a problem with that, why don't you try to explain what you mean instead of firing off tiresome soundbites and one-liners?


Please don't comment on a race you didnt watch.

#11209 arknor

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:32

He had no front wing because he destroyed it. He also caused the penalty by himself.

yea and he got a penalty most people dont think he deserved without that penalty he would still of trashed nico even with losing the front wing

#11210 Massa

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:33

It appears that Rosberg finished about 17 seconds in front of Schumacher.


While Schumacher had a stop and go, without that Schumacher could finish the race in front of Rosberg. After few laps, Schumacher was already 9th.

Schumacher is faster than Rosberg this year, open your eyes..

#11211 Anssi

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:34

Well, it's nice to dream. I do it too sometimes. But in the end reality must be accepted. For that we only need to look at the official results. I know it hurts sometimes.

Edited by Anssi, 10 July 2011 - 14:34.


#11212 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:36

Well, it's nice to dream. I do it too sometimes. But in the end reality must be accepted. For that we only need to look at the official results. I know it hurts sometimes.

Too right lets wait for the lap times.

#11213 Paco

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:37

Thats totally besides the point: the point is nico's pace compared to schumi's was crap. Do you agree?


But another way to look at it... he did what he needed to get 6th... only 2 stopped so he ended up running on older tires for much longer thereby slowing his pace a bit as he had to look after them to make them work that long. Nico "may" have been able to get to 5th.. a bit of stretch ..

Michael on the other hand had fresh rubber more often and had to push much more just to get to 9th.

#11214 Paco

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:38

Things aren't always soooo freaking black n white that "fanboys" try and make it seems.

#11215 VresiBerba

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:38

Lewis tried an overtake which never would have worked, Michael simply outbraked himself in intermediate conditions.

Rubbering up a sidepod is not a racing incident though, at least not in my book, but I concede that it may be in yours. I counter that with Alonso's penalty in Malaysia. So even if Shumi is the only one to be penalised for a racing incident, according to you, which is wrong, I give you Lewis' penalty in Monaco; the only one to be penalised for rubbering up a sidepod... in the history of the sport. Ever!

#11216 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:39

Michael was on two stops too. :rolleyes:

But Michael's problem is that there is a massive difference between his quali pace and position and his race pace. It's sadly always an incident waiting to happen with the slower guys in front.

So even if Shumi is the only one to be penalised for a racing incident, according to you, which is wrong, I give you Lewis' penalty in Monaco; the only one to be penalised for rubbering up a sidepod... in the history of the sport. Ever!


I'm taking only about the incidents this race.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 July 2011 - 14:41.


#11217 VresiBerba

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:40

they arent backmarkers if your racing for position with them though are they

Everyone is racing for position, backmarkers notwithstanding.

#11218 Aloisioitaly

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:40

It seems Schumi reached rosberg in terms of race pace (today was faster than nico), but now there's another flaw to fix: he is much more mistake prone than his teammate. That's the reason i give Schumi no more than 5% of chances to outscore rosberg at the end of the season.
I'm not bashing michael, the guy is clearly a legend, but being outscored two years in a row by his teammate would be utterly disappointing. i wouldn't call it a disaster, but his career as a whole would be slightly reapprised in the eyes of many people.

#11219 Anssi

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:40

Too right lets wait for the lap times.




Well, have fun! :cat:

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#11220 VresiBerba

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:42

Please don't comment on a race you didnt watch.

So you refuse to back-up your statements on the belief that you think I didn't watch the race? Then don't make those statements.

#11221 Paco

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:42

As for the British GP.

Nico did a great job on Saturday and a very very solid job Sunday reading the conditions and making a 2-stop race work and getting into 6th.
Michael did a very poor job on Saturday, made a mistake and worked the fresh tires as much as possible to a 9th..
MGP002 still not good enough and still too slow but with the wet track on Saturday and Sunday can't really tell if they made any progress..

Nothing more.. nothing less.

Edited by Paco, 10 July 2011 - 14:43.


#11222 Urawa

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:47

But another way to look at it... he did what he needed to get 6th... only 2 stopped so he ended up running on older tires for much longer thereby slowing his pace a bit as he had to look after them to make them work that long. Nico "may" have been able to get to 5th.. a bit of stretch ..

Michael on the other hand had fresh rubber more often and had to push much more just to get to 9th.


I think you´re mixing something here. Both were on 2-stop strategy and the same rythm (MS pitted 2-3 laps earlier at the first stop an 1-2 later on the 2nd)
And they even had the same amout of new soft tyres as Rosberg did his Q3 lap with used tyres yesterday.

#11223 BRK

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:51

Yep!

Which one?


What's blue, starts with a V, and doesn't watch races? :eek:

#11224 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:53

Michael on the other hand had fresh rubber more often and had to push much more just to get to 9th.

what? why did michael have fresh rubber more often?

#11225 Paco

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 14:59

I don't have the lap by lap tracking of when ms stopped vs. nico and took on rubber etc. Either way, it's a null point, at the end of the day Nico is qualifying and scoring better still 1.5 years on and Merc is still not a top 3 car as this entire weekend demonstrated.

Hopefully, MS can turns things around with the few races remaining this season.

#11226 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:08

Well, have fun! :cat:

yeah, on your face!
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#11227 topical

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:09

If he wasn't in his 40s MS would certainly be this year's Crash Kid award winner.
Good come back drive though,

#11228 Anssi

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:20

Oh my doG, official results! On my face! :rotfl:

#11229 VresiBerba

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:20

What's blue, starts with a V, and doesn't watch races? :eek:

So I'm a "troll" then, for saying that Shumi was due this penalty, and humbly asking what Lewis did that was "identical incident in the same race"? So can you then point me towards what Lewis did during this race that was identical to what Shumi did, because no-one else has been able, since I honestly missed that one.

#11230 spacekid

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:24

So I'm a "troll" then, for saying that Shumi was due this penalty, and humbly asking what Lewis did that was "identical incident in the same race"? So can you then point me towards what Lewis did during this race that was identical to what Shumi did, because no-one else has been able, since I honestly missed that one.


You are right. Schumi lost the rear of the car going into a corner in wet conditions. He wasn't trying to make a pass, he just made a mistake.

Lewis locked up going in to a turn to prevent an overtake, and pushed the overtaking car wide and was able to retain position.

So you're right, they were different.

The majority of your posts are a blatant wind up though.

#11231 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:25

But another way to look at it... he did what he needed to get 6th... only 2 stopped so he ended up running on older tires for much longer thereby slowing his pace a bit as he had to look after them to make them work that long. Nico "may" have been able to get to 5th.. a bit of stretch ..

Michael on the other hand had fresh rubber more often and had to push much more just to get to 9th.


How? They did the same amount of pit stops for tyres.

#11232 RedBaron

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:27

Penalty was a joke, Mansell's explanation doesn't sit well either. If Schumacher had bumped the Sauber off and continued without damage he should have received an penalty... but he lost his front wing and had to do a lap without it and non-racing speeds... that should have been his penalty. He made an mistake, he paid for it with a lost front wing and the resulting pit stop.

#11233 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:27

You are right. Schumi lost the rear of the car going into a corner in wet conditions. He wasn't trying to make a pass, he just made a mistake.

Lewis locked up going in to a turn to prevent an overtake, and pushed the overtaking car wide and was able to retain position.

So you're right, they were different.

The majority of your posts are a blatant wind up though.


of course its pretty obvious why hes here.


#11234 differential

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:29

I don't have the lap by lap tracking of when ms stopped vs. nico and took on rubber etc. Either way, it's a null point, at the end of the day Nico is qualifying and scoring better still 1.5 years on and Merc is still not a top 3 car as this entire weekend demonstrated.

Hopefully, MS can turns things around with the few races remaining this season.


And at the end of the day, MS has better race pace and just needs to improve quali to show his true ability that he already has.

#11235 Paco

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:30

What lap did Michael serve his penality on???

Either way, based on that tear strip lap summary, look more like Nico and Michael were "swapping" fastest laps and pretty even.

MS 30 : NR 22 (57.7% of laps was faster)

If you subtract the 1st 10 laps of wet conditions and wing change (I think it goes without saying that Michael is a much better wet weather racer then Nico).. then the picture is

MS 24 : NR 19 (55.8%)

Considering Michael was consistently pushing to get into the points and passing "lesser" teams whereas Nico had to try and take on Ferrari, Redbull and McLaren .. so lapping a bit more conservatively .. I don't exactly think Michael put Nico to shame today.

Difference of opinion I guess to what the masses saw today.

#11236 vovelo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:40

whereas Nico had to try and take on Ferrari, Redbull and McLaren ..

what, are you serious ? :rotfl:


#11237 Disgrace

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:43

Penalty was a joke, Mansell's explanation doesn't sit well either. If Schumacher had bumped the Sauber off and continued without damage he should have received an penalty... but he lost his front wing and had to do a lap without it and non-racing speeds... that should have been his penalty. He made an mistake, he paid for it with a lost front wing and the resulting pit stop.


You are right, and I hope you've applied the same logic to di Resta in Canada, Monaco and Alonso in Malaysia in order to make your views consistent. The stewards are consistent, but they're consistently WRONG. That doesn't absolve them, or justifies "precedents" as far as I'm concerned.

#11238 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:43

Considering Michael was consistently pushing to get into the points and passing "lesser" teams whereas Nico had to try and take on Ferrari, Redbull and McLaren .. so lapping a bit more conservatively .. I don't exactly think Michael put Nico to shame today.


What? This makes no sense.

He tried to catch the guys in front, he had clear air, so he goes slower. :stoned: :rotfl:


#11239 VresiBerba

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:45

Lewis locked up going in to a turn to prevent an overtake, and pushed the overtaking car wide and was able to retain position.

Sorry because, again, I must have missed that one. When did this, identical thing to Shumi, happen :confused:

Penalty was a joke, Mansell's explanation doesn't sit well either. If Schumacher had bumped the Sauber off and continued without damage he should have received an penalty... but he lost his front wing and had to do a lap without it and non-racing speeds... that should have been his penalty. He made an mistake, he paid for it with a lost front wing and the resulting pit stop.

Then Alonso's penalty in Malaysia was even more of a joke, seeing that Lewis was then able to continue and score points whereas Kobayashi weren't today, perhaps as a direct result of Shumi ramming him. Added to that, Shumi has a tendancy to run into people ruining his own front wing and disrupting other drivers these days, three times in six races.

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#11240 Paco

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:47

what, are you serious ? :rotfl:


Yes. :wave: He didn't have reason to push any hard then he did. The outcome would have most likely been the absolute same.

Michael on the other hand had cars ahead of him that were easier to pass and by pushing could have improved his positioning significantly.

#11241 sharo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:49

So I'm a "troll" then, for saying that Shumi was due this penalty, and humbly asking what Lewis did that was "identical incident in the same race"? So can you then point me towards what Lewis did during this race that was identical to what Shumi did, because no-one else has been able, since I honestly missed that one.

It's off topic but just FYI
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And it's not a mistake, it's deliberate action.

Edited by sharo, 10 July 2011 - 15:51.


#11242 Jazza

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:54

It's off topic but just FYI
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How the hell is that identical?

MS lost the rear of his car and slid into another, sending that car into a spin. LH entered a different corner in front of another car, and that car went around the outside of him which resulted in some contact on the exit (both cars kept going). Identical?

#11243 Disgrace

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:56

What a blatantly misleading picture. It's the same as taking a picture of someone in the middle of a blink and suggesting they're mentally ill because of it.

#11244 sharo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 15:57

You're right they are not identical, this one is even worse :)
and repeated at the next corner too.
But I guess this thread is not the right place, so I stop here.

#11245 VresiBerba

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 16:03

It's off topic but just FYI
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And it's not a mistake, it's deliberate action.

Excuse me, but how is that related to what Shumi did and what Diablobb81 called "identical incident in the same race" :rolleyes: Do you call that "identical"?

Edit: This better not be what you Shumi-fans are referring to...

Edited by VresiBerba, 10 July 2011 - 16:04.


#11246 BRK

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 16:04

Di Resta caused an avoidable collision that was identical to the Schumacher-Kobayashi incident.


The moment it happened I almost thought the Jerry and the Jap get unfair penalties while the Scot gets away scot-free but that would be a wrong thing to say, of course. :p

#11247 arknor

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 16:09

Excuse me, but how is that related to what Shumi did and what Diablobb81 called "identical incident in the same race" :rolleyes: Do you call that "identical"?

Edit: This better not be what you Shumi-fans are referring to...

that photo doesnt show much watch the race hamiltons clearly slides into the side of massa and forced massas ferrari to slide wider than it otherwise would have but because massa didnt happen to spin he got away with it.
to me its just a racing incident things like this will happen and it doesnt warrant a penalty at all its good we want to see real racing.

i dont think anyone is suggesting lewis deserved a penalty more of that schumachers collision with kobayashi wasnt intentional , he obviously had less grip than he had anticipated it was just a racing incident and the penalty was going to far lewis has done worse and been given a reprimand and thats all imo that schumacher deserved

#11248 Kubiccia

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 16:18

Schumacher is faster than Rosberg this year, open your eyes..

this

But another way to look at it... he did what he needed to get 6th... only 2 stopped so he ended up running on older tires for much longer thereby slowing his pace a bit as he had to look after them to make them work that long. Nico "may" have been able to get to 5th.. a bit of stretch ..

Michael on the other hand had fresh rubber more often and had to push much more just to get to 9th.

What lap did Michael serve his penality on???

Either way, based on that tear strip lap summary, look more like Nico and Michael were "swapping" fastest laps and pretty even.

MS 30 : NR 22 (57.7% of laps was faster)

If you subtract the 1st 10 laps of wet conditions and wing change (I think it goes without saying that Michael is a much better wet weather racer then Nico).. then the picture is

MS 24 : NR 19 (55.8%)

Considering Michael was consistently pushing to get into the points and passing "lesser" teams whereas Nico had to try and take on Ferrari, Redbull and McLaren .. so lapping a bit more conservatively .. I don't exactly think Michael put Nico to shame today.

Difference of opinion I guess to what the masses saw today.

Paco, you are working as hard as you can to look stupid. Nico was so slow that was holding Perez the whole race, he never had chance to cruise and had to push all the time. If Schumacher didn't crash into Koba, he would have finished wayyy ahead. Take out the "Stop and Go" time and Michael is already ahead of Nico, not to mention the time he lost cruising with a broken fw car and all the 10 seconds his pit stop took. Then, take in consideration the amount of cars he had to pass on track and you see how much slower Nico was.

I don't know wheter if Schumacher race pace is good or if Nico's is just pathetic.

#11249 Math89

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 16:19

EJ bashing is a disgrace! Who does this guy think he is?


Could be i'm misreading your post, but what did EJ say about Michael? Missed it apparently...

#11250 arknor

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 16:35

Could be i'm misreading your post, but what did EJ say about Michael? Missed it apparently...

he was doing his usual "be controversial for the sake of beeing a troll" and saying schumacher deserved the penalty bla bla bla, coulthard was suggesting schumacher didnt deserve a penalty after hearing schumachers comments ej was back with his "ra ra ra schumach penalty ra ra" rubbish