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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#11251 Dunder

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 00:28

Pretty solid showing by MS today sans that costly mistake. The penalty was a loke. I mean I can see the drive-through being applied since the incident involves MS and we all know when MS is in the incident he's guilty by definition. But the 10 secnds stop-and-go was way over the line. Anyway, looking forward to strong showing at the Nurburgring!


The drivers were told on Thursday that all penalties would be stop and go's because the net time loss for a drive thru would only be 9 seconds.

Looked at in isolation (as the stewards, of course, should) I thought the penalty was harsh. With that said I do think it would be overly lenient for him to have gone without a singly penalty for the incidents with Petrov (Turkey and Valencia) as well the collision with Koba at Silverstone.


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#11252 Spa95

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 03:35

With that said I do think it would be overly lenient for him to have gone without a singly penalty for the incidents with Petrov (Turkey and Valencia) as well the collision with Koba at Silverstone.

Oh, retrospective penaltys now. Fine, I hope di Resta and Hamilton get pulled in for a 10 second Stop&Go at the Nurburgring "because of what happened at Silverstone". :up:

#11253 baddog

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 04:02

Looked at in isolation (as the stewards, of course, should) I thought the penalty was harsh. With that said I do think it would be overly lenient for him to have gone without a singly penalty for the incidents with Petrov (Turkey and Valencia) as well the collision with Koba at Silverstone.

There is a mechanism for that, and it was not used..

#11254 steveninthematrix

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 05:56

its very simple

which country has the highest percentage of fans which dislike Michael Schumacher?

the UK

where was the race held?

the UK

where did the stewards for the race come from?

enough said

the penalty was ridiculous, because it makes the statement that a driver at 150mph in a corner shouldn't dare make a mistake on a wet track, and if he loses his wing or ever crashes into another car, he will also be penalized

that being said, MS did a great fight-back drive, Nico seemed a bit asleep today..... onward to the next race

#11255 black magic

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 06:49

no question if the team wanted a racer then michael is their man. if they wanted an accumulator of points then maybe Nico.

unfortunately the other teams will be watching and seeing nico rel consistantly now being outpaced by michael regardless of finishing position mean his place in the pecking order will be sliding.

generally teams want someone who will give it a go rather than safety first.

and the trend sare becoming increasingly clear. nico has a slight adbvanteg come qual, but michael is quicker on race day, frequently nabbing his teammate as he did again last night a the start. yes his mistakes have cost him but for good portions of the gp michael was matching the leaders or at least those from 3 downwards.

#11256 Massa_f1

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 11:01

I thought the Penalty was so stupid to be honest. I as very unhappy about it. Of course to make it worse it was a stop go. I think if you damage your own car with a mistake there is no need to be punished. You already have been. I am not saying Schumacher was at fault he was he yet again lost if front wing :mad: The stop go was not needed though.

#11257 ivand911

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 12:20

DIR and Lewis also hit other cars. Did they get stop and go?

#11258 arknor

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 13:35

DIR and Lewis also hit other cars. Did they get stop and go?

did button in canada for knocking alonso off?

#11259 BRK

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 16:29

DIR and Lewis also hit other cars. Did they get stop and go?


That's what was asked yesterday but no answer was forthcoming, they camped on the Schumacher-Rosberg thread instead.

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#11260 Sakae

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 17:12

To be frank, I was expecting that from the day one upon his return, that rules will be applied to his persona more frequently in full, and more severe than with others. One poster summarized that point actually quite well earlier on.

Edited by Sakae, 11 July 2011 - 17:14.


#11261 Concorde

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 17:25

where did the stewards for the race come from?

France, Sweden and only Mansell from the island so I don't think that contributed to Michael receiving a penalty.

I like Michael and he had a very interesting drive yesterday but that penalty was not unfair. Maybe not necessary because he had to go in for repairs himself but nothing outrageous imo.

#11262 sharo

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 18:39

DIR and Lewis also hit other cars. Did they get stop and go?

On the same question I was told here that those have nothing in common with MS-KOBA. Can't see why, maybe because MS is involved, but thought not worth arguing. While HAM for the second time after Monaco uses Massa's car as a moving support to make the corner, but in Monaco the stewards thought different than in GB.

#11263 hansmann

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 18:56

I think the penalty was as much of a racing incident as the crash itsself - it's racing, it happens .

Seems to me, as soon as Michael manages to keep his front wing on, the results will mirror his capabilities .;)

#11264 Afterburner

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 19:23

Seems to me, as soon as Michael manages to keep his front wing on, the results will mirror his capabilities .;)

Now that I think about it, he hasn't had too much luck with front wings on the W02, has he? :rotfl:

#11265 arknor

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:10

Now that I think about it, he hasn't had too much luck with front wings on the W02, has he? :rotfl:

you know what else is strange theres probbaly not a single race where someone doesnt lose a nose trying to overtake kobayashi

#11266 BRK

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:30

Still nothing on the di Resta incident.

Fact is that it was a simple mistake, the penalty was far too harsh. In fact both penalties that were handed out were stupid, the pitlane argument was silly and they should have handed out drive-throughs instead.

Nevertheless: Michael is pushing hard in a car that is nowhere near as good as those of the front runners, mistakes are bound to happen, if anything it's an indication he is pushing. It's of little consequence when the team clearly have no way of challenging for wins of podiums yet.

#11267 ivand911

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:38

Now that I think about it, he hasn't had too much luck with front wings on the W02, has he? :rotfl:

I start to think it is not MS fault ,it is design defect. Look at McL FW, they never lose it. Lewis hit Massa twice strongly in the last lap and he only lost small end part. :p

Edited by ivand911, 12 July 2011 - 08:52.


#11268 differential

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 08:17

Still nothing on the di Resta incident.

Fact is that it was a simple mistake, the penalty was far too harsh. In fact both penalties that were handed out were stupid, the pitlane argument was silly and they should have handed out drive-throughs instead.

Nevertheless: Michael is pushing hard in a car that is nowhere near as good as those of the front runners, mistakes are bound to happen, if anything it's an indication he is pushing. It's of little consequence when the team clearly have no way of challenging for wins of podiums yet.

:up:
Im sure the team knows this :cool:

#11269 arknor

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 09:15

Still nothing on the di Resta incident.

Fact is that it was a simple mistake, the penalty was far too harsh. In fact both penalties that were handed out were stupid, the pitlane argument was silly and they should have handed out drive-throughs instead.

Nevertheless: Michael is pushing hard in a car that is nowhere near as good as those of the front runners, mistakes are bound to happen, if anything it's an indication he is pushing. It's of little consequence when the team clearly have no way of challenging for wins of podiums yet.

at times i think hes pushing to hard because he wants results so bad a bit like how hamilton is , maybe its because they both got used to having a car that can challenge for wins and its frustrating for them having to battle for 6 position and other poor results.

or maybe hes just clumsy and im biased

#11270 Boing 2

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 09:48

you know what else is strange theres probbaly not a single race where someone doesnt lose a nose trying to overtake kobayashi


you're implying that it was Kobi's fault that Michael locked up and ran up his arse? :drunk:

#11271 arknor

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:31

you're implying that it was Kobi's fault that Michael locked up and ran up his arse? :drunk:

not this time as it was obvious schumacher carried to much speed for the grip levels but you must admit kobayashi does seem to slow down on the apex of a corner or accelerate out of a corner slower than other drivers expct which causes them to lose a nose cone.

has there been a n actual race where someone hasnt lose a nose or part of it to the rear of kobayashis car? in canada it was nicos turn ;)

in the kobayashi thread theres some people suggesting kobyashi is doing a form of break testing with how he uses the corners

Edited by arknor, 12 July 2011 - 10:32.


#11272 Muz Bee

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:40

I start to think it is not MS fault ,it is design defect. Look at McL FW, they never lose it. Lewis hit Massa twice strongly in the last lap and he only lost small end part. :p

:lol:

#11273 Boing 2

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:42

not this time as it was obvious schumacher carried to much speed for the grip levels but you must admit kobayashi does seem to slow down on the apex of a corner or accelerate out of a corner slower than other drivers expct which causes them to lose a nose cone.

has there been a n actual race where someone hasnt lose a nose or part of it to the rear of kobayashis car? in canada it was nicos turn ;)

in the kobayashi thread theres some people suggesting kobyashi is doing a form of break testing with how he uses the corners



I would imagine if he was wrecking peoples races by brake testing he would be brought before the beak and asked to show his telemetry. I think it's more likely that he has accidents because he fights a corner much longer than most, you saw that with maldonado, Kobi just wouldn't let the place go. Maybe that puts him wheel to wheel in the middle of corners where most drivers would already be clearly behind at that point, thus exposing him to the chance of collisions.

#11274 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:52

Strange that the stewards report for the MS incident hasn't been published. Or have they hidden it away somewhere?

#11275 Boing 2

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 11:10

I notice the FIA website has gone 'members only'




#11276 ivand911

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 11:14

not this time as it was obvious schumacher carried to much speed for the grip levels but you must admit kobayashi does seem to slow down on the apex of a corner or accelerate out of a corner slower than other drivers expct which causes them to lose a nose cone.

has there been a n actual race where someone hasnt lose a nose or part of it to the rear of kobayashis car? in canada it was nicos turn ;)

in the kobayashi thread theres some people suggesting kobyashi is doing a form of break testing with how he uses the corners

Heidfeld also lost his FW in Koba's rear end in Canada. This guy brake strangely.
Lewis miss the corner twice(flew out of the track) ,but he was lucky there wasn't somebody like Koba ahead of him.

Edited by ivand911, 12 July 2011 - 11:14.


#11277 Jejking

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 12:33

not this time as it was obvious schumacher carried to much speed for the grip levels but you must admit kobayashi does seem to slow down on the apex of a corner or accelerate out of a corner slower than other drivers expct which causes them to lose a nose cone.

has there been a n actual race where someone hasnt lose a nose or part of it to the rear of kobayashis car? in canada it was nicos turn ;)

in the kobayashi thread theres some people suggesting kobyashi is doing a form of break testing with how he uses the corners

Agreed with that one. It looked like clumpsy but I'm sure Kobayashi was very slow in the corner, outside the apex. In the wet that shouldn't have to be an issue but I think he would have hit the pedal earlier to get back up to speed. Schumacher just slid in him with that correction, racing incident. The penalty was pretty much 'way too' harsh, like David and Martin already admitted.

#11278 sharo

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 13:09

............................
The penalty was pretty much 'way too' harsh, like David and Martin already admitted.

It seems to me there is a pattern since Michael's return - they first punish him and after that admit the punishment has been harder than necessary or even not quite fair (Monaco 2010).

#11279 Jejking

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 13:11

Too bad it's forbidden to protest against decisions on steward level.

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#11280 BRK

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 13:13

It seems to me there is a pattern since Michael's return - they first punish him and after that admit the punishment has been harder than necessary or even not quite fair (Monaco 2010).


Along with the incidents MS gets unfortunately involved in, this will disappear once he has a car that performs to his liking.

#11281 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 13:15

I notice the FIA website has gone 'members only'


No it hasn't.

#11282 arknor

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 13:42

No it hasn't.

no stewards report though
http://www.fia.com/e...post_event.aspx

#11283 dren

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 13:49

Agreed with that one. It looked like clumpsy but I'm sure Kobayashi was very slow in the corner, outside the apex. In the wet that shouldn't have to be an issue but I think he would have hit the pedal earlier to get back up to speed. Schumacher just slid in him with that correction, racing incident. The penalty was pretty much 'way too' harsh, like David and Martin already admitted.


Schumacher made a mistake and crashed into Kobayashi. A penalty was warrented. It wasn't like when Massa and Hamilton were duking it out at the end. That was racing.

Either way, Schumacher dove one hell of a race bar the mistake. He's looked quite racey recently. He just needs to up his qualification game.

#11284 arknor

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 15:07

Schumacher made a mistake and crashed into Kobayashi. A penalty was warrented. It wasn't like when Massa and Hamilton were duking it out at the end. That was racing.

Either way, Schumacher dove one hell of a race bar the mistake. He's looked quite racey recently. He just needs to up his qualification game.

other people get away with similar accidents all the time though and they shouldnt punish people for mistakes they should punish people for dirty driving

#11285 EdwardCullen

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 15:11

other people get away with similar accidents all the time though and they shouldnt punish people for mistakes they should punish people for dirty driving

Yup, Button taking out Alonso at canada comes to mind

#11286 Jejking

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 15:23

Shall we stress the fact Button took two title candidates out there? One unconsciously (I don't blame him or Hamilton for diving into a quickly decreasing gap with his normal level of enthusiasm. It was just horrible miscommunication) and one with racing the Ferrari, 60-40 for Button vs Alonso. Both the Mac and the Ferrari had to stop. There are fine lines between a lot of things but not between racing and accidentally slipping on a damp track. Those are two different things and so this call was apalling, especially when considering Kobayashi isn't hunting his first WDC down this season.

#11287 One

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 15:24

I kind of think that Michael should move to Red Bull in 2012.

#11288 Stephen W

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 15:30

Michael Schumacher has made too many mistakes this season - crashing into Kobayashi was just the latest. I don't think he is doing himself any favours staying in the Mercedes seat and he should call a halt to his wonderful career before it is tarnished forever.

:wave:

#11289 exmayol

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 15:37

Michael Schumacher has made too many mistakes this season - crashing into Kobayashi was just the latest. I don't think he is doing himself any favours staying in the Mercedes seat and he should call a halt to his wonderful career before it is tarnished forever.

:wave:


Thanks for the input, I'll tell him that next time I see him!

#11290 Concorde

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 15:39

Michael Schumacher has made too many mistakes this season - crashing into Kobayashi was just the latest. I don't think he is doing himself any favours staying in the Mercedes seat and he should call a halt to his wonderful career before it is tarnished forever.

:wave:

Michael doesn't have to do himself or anybody any favours he just wants to enjoy himself driving in F1 and as long as he's he will stay.
He has the luxury that he has achieved it all and then some and he doesn't really care what the rest of the world thinks of him or of his career. That said the day he doesn't enjoy F1 anymore or finds something better to do he'll walk just like that.

Nice position to be in I guess. :cool:

#11291 Sakae

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 15:44

Shall we stress the fact Button took two title candidates out there? One unconsciously (I don't blame him or Hamilton for diving into a quickly decreasing gap with his normal level of enthusiasm. It was just horrible miscommunication) and one with racing the Ferrari, 60-40 for Button vs Alonso. Both the Mac and the Ferrari had to stop. There are fine lines between a lot of things but not between racing and accidentally slipping on a damp track. Those are two different things and so this call was apalling, especially when considering Kobayashi isn't hunting his first WDC down this season.

This would be a "move of the century", but I don't think it's in the cards. He is with MGP and he he will retire from there for good; question is merely when. Having a different car poses for him the same set of issues, mainly balance, tires, acceleration, etc.

Edited by Sakae, 12 July 2011 - 15:44.


#11292 puxanando

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 21:14

Michael Schumacher has made too many mistakes this season - crashing into Kobayashi was just the latest. I don't think he is doing himself any favours staying in the Mercedes seat and he should call a halt to his wonderful career before it is tarnished forever.

:wave:

:up: I am with you.....too less good news from the old man! He has "feddisch"!

#11293 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 21:24

no stewards report though
http://www.fia.com/e...post_event.aspx


There never is, at least not for public reading.

#11294 arknor

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 08:17

Michael Schumacher has made too many mistakes this season - crashing into Kobayashi was just the latest. I don't think he is doing himself any favours staying in the Mercedes seat and he should call a halt to his wonderful career before it is tarnished forever.

:wave:

you could say the same thing about hamilton accept he doesnt have a career to tarnish so why dont people call for him to retire?

Edited by arknor, 13 July 2011 - 08:18.


#11295 Dodi_napalm

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 10:59

from Mercedes GP site:
The Dust Settles - Silverstone
MICHAEL
Hands up if you remember Turkey? Well,
the recipe for Michael’s race in Silverstone
was very similar: a great start, great speed
through the stints, but an unfortunate
collision – plus additional pit stop – that
masked a cracking drive. Michael is fast developing a reputation as a
first-lap demon: he gained four positions
on the first lap last Sunday, the fourth time
this year he has made up three or more
positions by the end of lap one. That set
him up for a solid first stint as the drivers proceeded cautiously on the inters on a
wet/dry circuit, looking after the tyres and
taking opportunities as they came. Running close behind Kobayashi, Michael
first got close enough to use DRS on lap
nine. Braking for turn 6 (Brooklands), he
misjudged it, lost the rear end and slid into
the Sauber, crunching his front wing in the
process. He lost around 12 seconds running back to the pits without his front
wing, more time as the nose was changed –
but became the first man to run dry tyres,
as he headed back out in P18 on lap 10. The choice proved its worth: by the time he
came back to the pits on lap 16, to serve a
10 second stop-go for the collision, Michael
was up to eighth place; he even set the
fastest lap of the race up to that point on
lap 13. After the race, the penalty was the object of
some frustration, but the reason for the
stop-go, rather than the more usual drive-
through, was simple: the new pit-lane at
Silverstone is shorter than the circuit (in-
laps were around four seconds quicker than racing laps), so a simple drive-through
was not deemed ‘enough’ of a penalty. Michael re-emerged in P17, and there were
echoes of Valencia where an extra stop saw
him emerge in P20 – and finish only three
positions higher. However, an indication of
the step forward the team has made came
with Michael’s subsequent charge: his average lap times between laps 17 and 31
were comparable to the leaders, and he
hauled himself steadily up the field. Ultimately, Heidfeld’s Renault gained track
position at the second and final stop, and
was able to hold Michael off until the flag.
But two points were still sufficient to haul
the team ahead of Lotus Renault GP in the
constructors’ standings. Indeed, we have now outscored our closest rivals in the
championship in six of the last seven races
– a trend we will aim to continue as we
push on with development through the
summer. As for our next stop, that’s in Germany –
another home race for the team, and the
home event for both of our drivers. It will
be the first time the Silver Arrows have
raced at the famous Nürburgring in the
modern era – and it’s a place where we have made a fair bit of history over the
years. We will certainly be aiming even
higher in two weeks’ time. Bis bald!
:up:

Edited by Dodi_napalm, 15 July 2011 - 11:00.


#11296 weston

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 16:57

- "After the British GP Sebastian Vettel has 204 points out of a possible 225, or 90.67%. If he maintains this, would he set the record for the best percentage of points available over a season?"

- "The top two places on this list are both occupied by Michael Schumacher, who collected 84.71% of the points available to him in 2002 (144 out of 170), and approached that with 148 out of 180 (82.22%) in 2004... In order to beat Schumacher's record, Vettel needs to finish this season with a whopping 403 points - the maximum, from 19 races under the new points system, is 475."

I forgot how dominant Schumacher was in his top years.

At the same time these numbers emphasize how good Vettel is in this year.

#11297 arknor

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 18:28

- "After the British GP Sebastian Vettel has 204 points out of a possible 225, or 90.67%. If he maintains this, would he set the record for the best percentage of points available over a season?"

- "The top two places on this list are both occupied by Michael Schumacher, who collected 84.71% of the points available to him in 2002 (144 out of 170), and approached that with 148 out of 180 (82.22%) in 2004... In order to beat Schumacher's record, Vettel needs to finish this season with a whopping 403 points - the maximum, from 19 races under the new points system, is 475."

I forgot how dominant Schumacher was in his top years.

At the same time these numbers emphasize how good Vettel is in this year.

what about if it was the old points system? the gap between 1st and second is alot bigger than it used to be percentage wise?

#11298 Juan Kerr

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 19:52

That's a stupid thing to say 'In laps were 4 seconds faster than normal racing laps' what about the bit after crossing the timing line when you're still crawling along down the pit lane ? You can't suddenly jump straight up on to the track again.

#11299 hammibal

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 20:05

DIR and Lewis also hit other cars. Did they get stop and go?



did button in canada for knocking alonso off?

The problem is MS is doing this quite often, lets not forget he ran into the back of Lewis at Monaco damaging his rear diffuser, no one asked for him to be penalised then, he also ran Lewis off the track in Canada changing his line under braking for the hairpin which you're not supposed to do, he defended the inside of the corner, Lewis went to the outside so MS then turned left

Heidfeld also lost his FW in Koba's rear end in Canada. This guy brake strangely.
Lewis miss the corner twice(flew out of the track) ,but he was lucky there wasn't somebody like Koba ahead of him.

Lewis wasnt trying to overtake, and yes making a mistake and running off the circuit is the same as trying to pass someone and spinning him off :rolleyes:

other people get away with similar accidents all the time though and they shouldnt punish people for mistakes they should punish people for dirty driving

Too many mistakes

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#11300 Diablobb81

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 20:21

Lewis wasnt trying to overtake, and yes making a mistake and running off the circuit is the same as trying to pass someone and spinning him off :rolleyes:


Michael wasn't trying to overtake.