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#11351 ali.unal

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:06

Merhaba komşu :)

I think that from day one of his return Michael is aiming higher than being ahead of his teammate in the points. And besides getting back to form and scrubbing out the rust, he has to reconquer his place among the current group of drivers, different manners of driving and racing by them. Hence the mistakes and incidents. Many things have changed for three years and it appears that a comeback takes longer than we and Michael himself expected. The car also does not contribute.
But, like you, I am also pleased to see the same fighter and when weather equalizes car differences - same master - on the track.

Merhaba komşu too :up:

I've been thinking the same thing but I also would like to know why Schumacher cannot bring a lap together when it matters in qualifying? Is it EBD or DRS thing? I'm really curious about that.

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#11352 Clatter

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 07:34

:up:

At the end of the day, I think his adventures don't matter when the car is shit, at the moment Mercedes are in a lonely league of their own -the front runners are too far up ahead and the rest of the midfield is a bit further behind- at least he's pushing to the limit in a bad car, still better than some others that are unable to handle on the limit stuff. :up:


I disagree. Having a bad car will be reflected in the points, but is not a valid excuse for a bad performance, and while he is being beaten by NR he isn't pushing to the limits of the car, he is only reaching his own limit not the cars.



#11353 DutchCruijff

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:54

"Well I must say I'm very disappointed. He made up to my position so bloody quick so I let by which is normal...I didn't understand why Damon didn't react I mean he got 3 calls to let Michael pass but he didn't do it. Must be honest, it's quite an important day for Michael and it was difficult to get into the points" - Ralf

Bitter as ever is Damon.

#11354 EdwardCullen

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 13:51

"Well I must say I'm very disappointed. He made up to my position so bloody quick so I let by which is normal...I didn't understand why Damon didn't react I mean he got 3 calls to let Michael pass but he didn't do it. Must be honest, it's quite an important day for Michael and it was difficult to get into the points" - Ralf

Bitter as ever is Damon.

which race was this? suzuka 98?


#11355 ali.unal

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 13:53

"Well I must say I'm very disappointed. He made up to my position so bloody quick so I let by which is normal...I didn't understand why Damon didn't react I mean he got 3 calls to let Michael pass but he didn't do it. Must be honest, it's quite an important day for Michael and it was difficult to get into the points" - Ralf

Bitter as ever is Damon.

Well, granted Damon was not racing with Michael, I don't believe that's the correct way of thinking that he should have let Michael through. I mean why? They were racing for positions and they were racing for the same purpose (in gerenal meaning of the word). Michael should have passed Damon by merit, not by being let thru. It wasn't Michael was lapping him or something. Yes, that would have been big of Damon but it was not fault or improper not to let him by. No way.

In Brazil 2006, I was begging Jenson to back off and let Michael to be on the podium in his last race. But then, why should he have done this? They are all racing.

Edited by ali.unal, 18 July 2011 - 13:55.


#11356 DutchCruijff

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 14:22

Yep, Suzuka '98.

Hill defied team orders 3/4 times, seems to have a habit of this. Holding Schumacher back, who has a tendency for ambitious lunges/actions, could have resulted in a collision costing Jordan points and, potentially, Schumacher the title. The Ferrari was much faster, let him get on with his race and Damon with his own. It was all a bit unnecessary.


? Schumacher was right on the back end of Hill whilst Button was seconds away. I don't expect them to back off but only move to side when you've got the Championship contender right behind you.

#11357 ali.unal

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 14:31

Yep, Suzuka '98.

Hill defied team orders 3/4 times, seems to have a habit of this. Holding Schumacher back, who has a tendency for ambitious lunges/actions, could have resulted in a collision costing Jordan points and, potentially, Schumacher the title. The Ferrari was much faster, let him get on with his race and Damon with his own. It was all a bit unnecessary.


? Schumacher was right on the back end of Hill whilst Button was seconds away. I don't expect them to back off but only move to side when you've got the Championship contender right behind you.

No, this was a vain wishful thinking by my side. Nothing comparable are those two incidents.

Again, they raced each other to my opinion and Damon had every right to do so.

#11358 EdwardCullen

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 14:52

Again, they raced each other to my opinion and Damon had every right to do so.

:up:

#11359 arknor

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 15:01

No, this was a vain wishful thinking by my side. Nothing comparable are those two incidents.

Again, they raced each other to my opinion and Damon had every right to do so.

not when hes beeing paid to drive a car and his employer is clearly tellinh him one thing and he does another.
in most industries you get sacked.

anyway there were numerous other times when hill would let schumachers main title rival straight past and then he would do all he could to hold schumacher up, he wasnt doing it because he was racing him he does it because hes an arse and probably a very jealous and bitter one

Edited by arknor, 18 July 2011 - 15:03.


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#11360 ali.unal

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 15:09

not when hes beeing paid to drive a car and his employer is clearly tellinh him one thing and he does another.
in most industries you get sacked.


anyway there were numerous other times when hill would let schumachers main title rival straight past and then he would do all he could to hold schumacher up, he wasnt doing it because he was racing him he does it because hes an arse and probably a very jealous and bitter one

Well, just like what Webber did. If it's against the racing ming of a particular driver, then he's entitled to do whetever he feels to do. I'm not critical for those drivers who choose to deny what is not right for them. Damon was not racing just Michael alone, he was racing all the grid.

Then again, I feel for what you're saying about Damon. He felt all his life he was robbed of that championship and he might have thought it as a revenge. So be it. However, he didn't crash Michael, he just raced. He prevented Michael from passing him legally and rightfuly. He may be arse, jealous, bitter one but that's not the point. He didn't do anything wrong. That is the point.

I would have been a very happy man (boy, at that time) if Schumacher would've clinched that victory and title, but that was the way it is.

As mighty Sheldon puts it: "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas."

:)

Edited by ali.unal, 18 July 2011 - 15:12.


#11361 SpeedyS

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 19:11

I'll never forget this start of Schumacher, Suzuka 1998



Epic


Enjoyed this thankyou :up:

So whats the vote on MS greatest race??

#11362 arknor

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 19:54

Enjoyed this thankyou :up:

So whats the vote on MS greatest race??

98 is my favorite year
some good races that year , hungary was pretty intense
http://www.garagetv....ngary_1998.aspx

every race of 1998 should bring up some great schumacher clips on youtube

Edited by arknor, 18 July 2011 - 19:58.


#11363 exmayol

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 21:20

98 is my favorite year
some good races that year , hungary was pretty intense
http://www.garagetv....ngary_1998.aspx

every race of 1998 should bring up some great schumacher clips on youtube


Ha! 98 is my favourite year too. Belgium, Hungary, Japan.. all were priceless!

#11364 BenettonB192

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 23:45

So whats the vote on MS greatest race??


Too many to choose from. Monza 1992 is one of my favourites tho because it's so well documented with onboard footage. Damages his front wing in the first chicane after the start then fights his way back from the end of the field to the podium:



#11365 MightyMoose

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 00:36

The obvious candidates are Spain 94, Spa 95, Europe 95, Spain 96, Monaco 97, Hungary 98, Japan 98, Malaysia 99, Japan 00 etc etc.

For pure dominance all the weekend though I'd select Spa 04, I believe MS thinks highly of it, and Nigel Roebuck, who I don't think is much of a fan, considers it a magnificent drive.

#11366 Juan Kerr

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 00:44

Do any of the one's where he failed to finish count or is that all his fault ? How about Suzuka 06 ??

#11367 MightyMoose

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 01:02

Do any of the one's where he failed to finish count or is that all his fault ? How about Suzuka 06 ??


Lol, well Frans will tell you his best races were Jerez 97, Suzuka 98, Silverstone 99 etc.... but then we all know Frans doesn't take his medication before he comes on here & posts so.......

#11368 jjpm

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 02:32

i'll say Hill was right not to listen to pit's claim, and so was Webber to ignore the "brake behind Sebastian" in England! the race is on the track for Pete's sake!

#11369 baddog

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 03:31

i'll say Hill was right not to listen to pit's claim, and so was Webber to ignore the "brake behind Sebastian" in England! the race is on the track for Pete's sake!

The only thing Damon may have done wrong is to be selective about who he fought against because of personal grudges. That would be pretty pathetic.

I personally do not think other teams should act any differently in the last race than in the first race, and drivers should drive for their own best result without reference to the aspirations of others. A driver should let another driver through if he and his team feel that defending will harm his own race (i.e he may go slower and lose places overall, and this is not worthwhile for a symbolic defense).

#11370 George Costanza

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 03:44

The obvious candidates are Spain 94, Spa 95, Europe 95, Spain 96, Monaco 97, Hungary 98, Japan 98, Malaysia 99, Japan 00 etc etc.

For pure dominance all the weekend though I'd select Spa 04, I believe MS thinks highly of it, and Nigel Roebuck, who I don't think is much of a fan, considers it a magnificent drive.



Spa 1997, France '97 and 2004 and the 2000 European GP at the 'Ring was awesome too...

Vintage.

#11371 Jazza

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 04:13

Is there any proof that Hill was told by Jordan to move over for Schumacher? That is, except for Schumachers brother, who had already left the team by time the claim came out?

I clearly remember Hill denying any such order. Jordan were trying to get 4th (and even third if possible) in the championship, which back then was a huge deal. The big four teams had finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th for years on end, and Jordan were desperate to break this. Except for Ralph, I doubt anyone at Jordan gave a shit what Michael was doing.

#11372 Raelene

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 04:24

Jazza - It's Ralf... not Ralph...

baddog - completely agree

Edited by Raelene, 19 July 2011 - 04:24.


#11373 Jazza

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 04:39

Jazza - It's Ralf... not Ralph...

baddog - completely agree


Yeah, stupid iPad makes assumptions from time to time that are easy to miss.

Doesn't change the question but...

#11374 ali.unal

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 06:07

For me the best races of Michael include Hungary 98, Magny Cours 04, Monaco 06 and Brazil 06 for I witnessed all of them. I missed Spain 94 or Spain 96.

#11375 arknor

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 06:44

Do any of the one's where he failed to finish count or is that all his fault ? How about Suzuka 06 ??

i'd count spa 98 faster than coulthard even with 3 wheels :rotfl:

#11376 tifosiMac

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 07:43

For me the best races of Michael include Monaco 06....

I would Monaco 2006 was one of his worst races in terms of sportmanship. He may have driven well in the race but his qualifying tactics were shameful. He never admitted any wrong doing in that even though the stewards found not mechanical problems when looking at his data. The only person who ever admitted it was an incident they'd like to forget was Ross Brawn in an interview in 2008. Ross knew what they had done was wrong but they were in too deep not to continue the deceit at the time. It was a great season and Michael signed off a great career with his drive in Brazil, I just think he probably regretted Monaco due to the fact he hadn't committed an act like that for a few years and people were starting to talk about him as the new mature Michael.

#11377 ivand911

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 09:23

Too many to choose from. Monza 1992 is one of my favourites tho because it's so well documented with onboard footage. Damages his front wing in the first chicane after the start then fights his way back from the end of the field to the podium:

Ooh, no, he lost his FW. ;) Good race , he show middle finger to somebody. With third best car maybe?

Edited by ivand911, 19 July 2011 - 09:23.


#11378 EdwardCullen

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 09:27

Ooh, no, he lost his FW.;) Good race , he show middle finger to somebody. With third best car maybe?

Lol he has made a habit of losing his front wing 20 years ago :lol:

I would rather have somone who might loses wings but ultimately win GPs and WDCs than some journeyman driver

Edited by EdwardCullen, 19 July 2011 - 09:31.


#11379 ali.unal

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 11:14

I would Monaco 2006 was one of his worst races in terms of sportmanship. He may have driven well in the race but his qualifying tactics were shameful. He never admitted any wrong doing in that even though the stewards found not mechanical problems when looking at his data. The only person who ever admitted it was an incident they'd like to forget was Ross Brawn in an interview in 2008. Ross knew what they had done was wrong but they were in too deep not to continue the deceit at the time. It was a great season and Michael signed off a great career with his drive in Brazil, I just think he probably regretted Monaco due to the fact he hadn't committed an act like that for a few years and people were starting to talk about him as the new mature Michael.

Absolutely agree with you there, but I singled out his race pace only. So let's say "one of his worst qualifying", as the race itself had nothing to do with what he did in qualifying.

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#11380 tifosiMac

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 11:19

Absolutely agree with you there, but I singled out his race pace only. So let's say "one of his worst qualifying", as the race itself had nothing to do with what he did in qualifying.

Yeah thats fair enough. Schuey was very impressive in 2006 and retired on a high IMO. He certainly showed he could push a young Alonso in his prime right to the end. :)

#11381 ali.unal

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 11:23

Yeah thats fair enough. Schuey was very impressive in 2006 and retired on a high IMO. He certainly showed he could push a young Alonso in his prime right to the end. :)

It would be more than perfect to see him racing with the likes of Raikkonen, Alonso and Hamilton in 2007 when he was still on his prime. Shame.

#11382 Boing 2

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:37

not when hes beeing paid to drive a car and his employer is clearly tellinh him one thing and he does another.
in most industries you get sacked.

anyway there were numerous other times when hill would let schumachers main title rival straight past and then he would do all he could to hold schumacher up, he wasnt doing it because he was racing him he does it because hes an arse and probably a very jealous and bitter one


I can't remember them, can you point them out to us?

In 98 jordan went half a season without a point, the car was hopeless, then they started rattling off results and at spa they got a sensational first win and 1-2. In just half a season they climbed from nothing to 4th place just ahead of Bennetton (double world champs just two years before) and just behing Williams (reigning world champions) That was a massive end result and the points gap was tiny, 1 point ahead of Benneton and 4 behind Williams and you honestly expect them to just start letting drivers by? They had a sniff of 3rd place and beating the reigning world champions, you don't start waving anyone by in that situation, you fight tooth and nail.

As for calling the guy bitter and jealous, :rolleyes: I've lost count of the number of times I've heard him praise Schumachers skill, he was always the most gracious and sporting driver in the face of defeat. I shouldn't be surprised though, anyone who criticises MS gets labelled as bitter by his fanatics.

Edited by Boing 2, 19 July 2011 - 12:37.


#11383 Prost1997T

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 13:10

Criticise Hill for Suzuka 97, but not 98. They were on the same lap and he was entitled to block Michael. Besides, Hill pitted sooner so MS got ahead during the pitstops. The tyre blowing out was what cost him the championship in the end.

#11384 KiloWatt

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 13:14

Check out the interview fellas:
http://www.formula1....11/7/12316.html

#11385 MightyMoose

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 13:15

As for calling the guy bitter and jealous, :rolleyes: I've lost count of the number of times I've heard him praise Schumachers skill, he was always the most gracious and sporting driver in the face of defeat. I shouldn't be surprised though, anyone who criticises MS gets labelled as bitter by his fanatics.


Bitter & jealous may well be too strong to describe Hill's views towards MS, but I don't doubt there were times when he fought extra hard just because it was MS chasing him down...

In edition 185 of F1 Racing Damon is quoted as saying (referring to 1995) "...the rivalry with Michael from 1994 had created a sort of diversion in my mind. And he just rubbed my nose in it. Not that he was too bothered about whose nose he rubbed in the dirt, but I tended to take it personally and I think it got to me eventually. I defeated myself quite frankly..."

Quite open & honest there to his credit, but it's clearly viable to believe he'd act as I've described above.

On the other hand, if I was a team owner and any of my drivers moved out of the way of someone without a damn good reason, they'd not be getting a new contract! It's racing! By all means if it's lap 20 and you're 2 secs slower, and racing him is going to make you lose time/damage tyres or the car, then go, but don't wave him by on lap 4 just cos he's fighting for a title, if he's behind you, it's for a reason.

#11386 EdwardCullen

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 13:23

are we talking about this incident at Suzuka 1997 where Hill was being lapped by JV and Schumy and Hill let through JV very fast but held up Schumy?


#11387 Prost1997T

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 13:23

are we talking about this incident at Suzuka 1997 where Hill was being lapped by JV and Schumy and Hill let through JV very fast but held up Schumy?


I was yes, and it was Frentzen that he let through quickly (after getting in MSc's way for half a lap).

Then again, nobody got too upset at Fontana doing this to JV in the next race :p

Edited by Prost1997T, 19 July 2011 - 13:24.


#11388 ali.unal

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 13:24

Check out the interview fellas:
http://www.formula1....11/7/12316.html

Q: You can travel back in time and compete in any decade of Formula One racing, from the 1950s to the 1990s. Which decade would you choose and why?
MS:
I’d rather travel into the future and see how racing would be then.

:up:

Q: You are having a dinner party and can invite four people from the world of motorsport, past or present. Who do you invite?
MS:
Ross (Brawn), Norbert (Haug), Jean (Todt) and Luca (di Montezemolo).

All managers, not a single driver :cat:

Q: You are given the chance to drive any legendary Formula One car of the past (excluding those made by your own team). Which car would you choose?
MS:
The (future) 2022 Ferrari.

:)

Edited by ali.unal, 19 July 2011 - 13:27.


#11389 Enkei

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 20:32

Check out the interview fellas:
http://www.formula1....11/7/12316.html


Certainly not easy interviewing the man. Short answers and he mostly picks his own options instead of the ones given to him :lol:

#11390 arknor

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 22:13

Certainly not easy interviewing the man. Short answers and he mostly picks his own options instead of the ones given to him :lol:

some good answers rather than the usual boring answers you would expect from alot of people who would just answer without really thinking about it.

probably some german humour

#11391 Boing 2

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 23:46

Critisism for 97 is fair enough but to claim Hill did this "numerous" times is wrong and i notice the person who posted that has shuffed along in the thread without listing his "many" examples.

If we're going to critisise a driver for attacking a rival unduly harshly due to personal history, what about Schumacher nearly creaming Barrichello into a wall at 180mph at Hungary?

#11392 VresiBerba

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 23:59

The DRS issue presented itself once again for the Mercedes, and Schumacher's braking was affected and he hit Kobayashi. Not his fault, he even said he wasn't trying to pass KK at the time.

This is... in Dan2k-territory; Kafka-esque!

Shumi is in control of his car 100 per cent all the time, and if he uses DRS it's because he; Michael Schumacher, decided to use it. This isn't the FIA's fault, this it Shumi's fault. Full stop.


:up:

And you agree :drunk:

#11393 SeanValen

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:26

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Schumacher wins in the pits British GP 1998

Whenever I remember it, it's a unique finish we haven't seen duplicated yet. I really liked the way the ferrari looked visably on the edge and how MS pushed that car, it made you see the corrections and appreciate the grip.

We could do with more of that oversteer style of his, some of these cars these days seem either locked on the ground or just too smooth until grip is lost, so you pit, rather then a gradual loss of grip with the driver trying to make up for each tenth lost.

Edited by SeanValen, 20 July 2011 - 01:28.


#11394 arknor

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:06

Critisism for 97 is fair enough but to claim Hill did this "numerous" times is wrong and i notice the person who posted that has shuffed along in the thread without listing his "many" examples.

If we're going to critisise a driver for attacking a rival unduly harshly due to personal history, what about Schumacher nearly creaming Barrichello into a wall at 180mph at Hungary?

i dont need to list examples damon made it hard everytime schumacher came to lap him, anyone who watched f1 in the 90s will remember

#11395 SCUDmissile

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:13

Q: You can travel back in time and compete in any decade of Formula One racing, from the 1950s to the 1990s. Which decade would you choose and why?
MS:
I’d rather travel into the future and see how racing would be then.

:up:

Q: You are having a dinner party and can invite four people from the world of motorsport, past or present. Who do you invite?
MS:
Ross (Brawn), Norbert (Haug), Jean (Todt) and Luca (di Montezemolo).

All managers, not a single driver :cat:

Q: You are given the chance to drive any legendary Formula One car of the past (excluding those made by your own team). Which car would you choose?
MS:
The (future) 2022 Ferrari.

:)

hope the 2022 car is as good as he thinks it will be. :lol: nice interview, but it must have been hard for the interviewer.

#11396 Prost1997T

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:22

i dont need to list examples damon made it hard everytime schumacher came to lap him, anyone who watched f1 in the 90s will remember


Proof please. I have recordings of all the 1997 races and didn't see him obstructing Schumacher other than Japan.

Edited by Prost1997T, 20 July 2011 - 10:22.


#11397 Johnrambo

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:22

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Schumacher wins in the pits British GP 1998

Whenever I remember it, it's a unique finish we haven't seen duplicated yet. I really liked the way the ferrari looked visably on the edge and how MS pushed that car, it made you see the corrections and appreciate the grip.


Strange to see you remember one of MS's less than great victories with such fondness. Mika was annihilating MS (~40 second gap) before the SC period and MS passing under yellows. Seems MS didn't have grip at all.

#11398 Jejking

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:23

i dont need to list examples damon made it hard everytime schumacher came to lap him, anyone who watched f1 in the 90s will remember

You do. There aren't so many examples out there. Suzuka 1997 was one of them and Canada 98 the next and last. I think that about sums it all up.

Strange to see you remember one of MS's less than great victories with such fondness. Mika was annihilating MS (~40 second gap) before the SC period and MS passing under yellows. Seems MS didn't have grip at all.

Well in the end it was Mika annihilating himself by going off twice and all that matters is when you cross the line. Whether it's in the pits or on the track (winkwink).

Edited by Jejking, 20 July 2011 - 10:25.


#11399 Prost1997T

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:26

Canada 98 the next and last. I think that about sums it all up.


They were fighting for 2nd place. Yeah, there was the alleged weave, but they were on the same lap.

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#11400 Jejking

Jejking
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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:32

Hmm sorry I've mistakenly not added the point that those two occassions are when Hill was not taking it the fair way against Schumacher. My bad.