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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#11551 Disgrace

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:49

If Schumacher gets Q3 right, and doesn't make his usual single massive race error, he would finish ahead of Rosberg a lot more often than he does.

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#11552 Goron3

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:51

If Schumacher gets Q3 right, and doesn't make his usual single massive race error, he would finish ahead of Rosberg a lot more often than he does.


How the hell did Schumacher not finish miles behind Rosberg after his incident? If he has a simple race and can qualify in the top 8 he'd be fine.

#11553 spacekid

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:51

Questionable how it can go from 5-1 sec slower in qualifying to reverse in the race.
The last sector was no issue anymore today.


Setup has to play a part of this. I'm convinced that Nico leans more towards a quali set up, while Michael goes more for race set up.

When track position is so important and overtaking so likely to damaging those huuuuuuuuge front wings, we see how that plays out.

#11554 arknor

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:52

its a shame schumacher went drifting his race pace was great as usual and he easily deserved to finish atleast 1 position higher than he did

#11555 DutchCruijff

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:52

11s behind, what could have been.

So-so weekend for him. Poor qualifying, mistake in the race but faster than Rosberg, good start & good racecraft. A typical Schumacher race weekend.

#11556 chrisblades85

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:52

At least he didn't break a front wing today.

Silly error for his spin. Interesting the 2 top Germans did that though.

#11557 Disgrace

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:53

How the hell did Schumacher not finish miles behind Rosberg after his incident? If he has a simple race and can qualify in the top 8 he'd be fine.


Exactly, but it's the same two issues every race and he can't seem to eradicate either, so how is he supposed to stop doing both any time soon? Schumacher seems to have good race pace, unlike last year, so there's potential there. The errors have to stop soon.

#11558 Massa_f1

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:53

I would class myself as big Schumacher fan. I know he still has the race pace. However i dont want him to sign for next season. Another season like this is just a waste for a 7x world champion.
You also have to question what happens to Schumachers car in Qualifying. It is not all driver related that is for sure.

#11559 Augurk

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:53

Questionable how it can go from 5-1 sec slower in qualifying to reverse in the race.
The last sector was no issue anymore today.

Amazing that EJ in particular on the beeb has to notice whenever Schu is slower than MSC in quali, but never says anything about his race pace when its been so much better than Rosberg pretty much every race this year.

Anyway he would've finished ahead of Rosberg at the most. No way he would've taken Sutil. 2 stopping was the way to go, shame MGP didn't try.

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#11560 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 13:58

At least he didn't break a front wing today.

Silly error for his spin. Interesting the 2 top Germans did that though.

He lost less time when he lost his wing in Silverstone then today. It was something like 9sec to 14 sec today, if I remember correctly. In the end result was good, I like the race. Could go without the spin, but ooh well. One mistake, but very good moves.

Edited by ivand911, 24 July 2011 - 13:59.


#11561 KiloWatt

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 14:00

The pace looked pretty damn good and very entertaining to watch. But FFS, these stupid mistakes has got to stop. He can do so much better than this.

#11562 sharo

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 14:01

He keeps pushing and eventually make mistakes. But I like the way he's doing.
MS +2
.......
next time, more

#11563 DutchCruijff

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 14:01

I would class myself as big Schumacher fan. I know he still has the race pace. However i dont want him to sign for next season. Another season like this is just a waste for a 7x world champion.
You also have to question what happens to Schumachers car in Qualifying. It is not all driver related that is for sure.

His race pace this season has been better than Rosberg's. His qualifying performances have been dogged down by Mercedes shit. There's not many in the paddock that can replace someone who is easily Rosberg's equivalent.

#11564 Lelouch

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 14:23

Alonso, Vettel, Massa and i think Webber too all had their bad moments with mistakes today too. It can happen to anyone when they are pushing especially when MS grid positions are not that good. So I expect the rest of the season to keep going like this with mistakes from MS and a few brilliant races too, but what I don't understand is that his car looks much better and stable with higher fuel and my question is how this is related to MGP's lack of downforce and balance. Yesterday you could see that he was fighting with the car much more than today.

Anyway, its great to see a 7 times WDC showing such spirit at this age, but i would really like to see some more consistency from Michael. Still he is kinda exciting to watch at every race and if he finally gets his hands on a good car we shall see how far he can push it and what he extracts from it. There's a long way to go for MGP and time is not on Michael's side anymore.. :(

#11565 race addicted

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 14:28

The pace was very good to very impressive today! I couldn't believe it when he set that 35.6 lap, that must've been extremely good.

...but, it's these small mistakes and mishaps...

Hungaroring next up. He should be the fastest Merc-driver there.

#11566 Urawa

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 14:28

http://www.formula1....stest_laps.html

Pretty much sums it up. Top cars in '34, MS in '35, rest '36.

#11567 EdwardCullen

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 14:38

http://www.formula1....stest_laps.html

Pretty much sums it up. Top cars in '34, MS in '35, rest '36.

wow, great laptime
such a pitty that he couldnt hold it up....he would have definitely finished ahead of Sutil

#11568 VresiBerba

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:14

Once again faster than Nico on race pace, once again stupid mistake.

It's almost like these things are related, isn't it. Uncanny, even. Perhaps Shumi should concentrate on not being faster than Nico, and just do his thing.

#11569 fieraku

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:34

I love watching Schumi race! Not bad for a 43 year young.

#11570 Diablobb81

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:36

It's almost like these things are related, isn't it. Uncanny, even. Perhaps Shumi should concentrate on not being faster than Nico, and just do his thing.


This time his mistake had nothing to do with pushing too hard.

#11571 MCh000

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:45

Michael looks better and better, but must sort his problems in qualifying. Really don't see any reasons for him to quit next season.

#11572 SeanValen

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:45

The pace was very good to very impressive today! I couldn't believe it when he set that 35.6 lap, that must've been extremely good.

...but, it's these small mistakes and mishaps...

Hungaroring next up. He should be the fastest Merc-driver there.




Schumacher's race pace does not reflect his qualifying pace, and Nico is the opposite, infact both should really be about on even points, and Michael has made it easier for Nico, but the thing is you can't keep a faster car back for too long, sooner or later MS is going to threaten a big result, like Canada, which was robbed of us because of the FIA didn't let the drivers race wet tyres in the rain, waited unil conditions were fine for inters, so that decision alone cost MS at least 10 points or more, maybe the win or 2nd place at least we see the potential, and Nico was not anywhere near there, FIA cost Michael there., being too soft about drivers driving in the rain! last year at times, everyone was wondering if the race pace was ever there at times.

I also think Michael is being extremely proffessional about mercedes issues, he didn't blame the team in the press last year, when his F-duct or chassic cost him time in qualifying sessions and races, he came out with the revelations later in a low key way as to defend his actual performances, which I quite understand, and Mr Haug confirmed.

I do think there's a clear reason why Michael's qualifying pace in Q3 was so far off Nico, it could be a drs/kers issue, but given the team's place in the championship, these mistakes I assume are a nautral cost of a team trying to move foward, now unless it's race wins and poles, MS hasn't been as vocal as or other drivers might be, he's too expererienced for that.



#11573 BRK

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:45

The pace was very good to very impressive today! I couldn't believe it when he set that 35.6 lap, that must've been extremely good.

...but, it's these small mistakes and mishaps...


That's a fair assessment. To me, the trend was clear this weekend, Schumacher was pushing on and over the limit at times, mistakes here and there, I personally think he's doing more than what the car is capable of over a single lap, but this is naturally not the fastest way to get through a race. Rosberg meanwhile put in a steady drive but never seemed like he was pushing the limits.

It's like I said last week, the car is shit and they have no way of keeping up with the front runners: I do hope Michael keeps this up and keeps driving on the limit, it's that sort of driving that pays off in time when you're in a midfield car (probably not so with a front runner). If he is able to keep this sort of pace and on the limit stuff up he will land a podium or even a win in due course: I would take this anyday over consistent midfield finishes over the course of a season.

Edited by BRK, 24 July 2011 - 15:46.


#11574 SeanValen

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:58

Another thing, had it rained half way through the race, I really think that Michael could of done something, like Canada, it's there for him, but the racing gods are not giving him the rain or the FIA like in Canada are holding our rain thirsty drivers behind safety cars too long, that's what mercedes needs, rain. Last year I had by doubts, but I think Schumacher is getting on tops of these tyres in the races, and just needs the elements to come to him and the FIA to shut up and let everyone drive like they always did in the rain.




If testing returns as well, mercedes could do with it, as their simulator technology is not up to other teams spec, so could be good for the team and MS to work things out before gp events, something that was natural for MS before his comeback.

#11575 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:58

I think team(his race engineer) could warned him about stepping over white line and green stuff there after what happen with Vettel. It was easy thing to do. It was wet there. If it was dry, there wouldn't be a problem.

Edited by ivand911, 24 July 2011 - 16:02.


#11576 weston

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:04

That's a fair assessment. To me, the trend was clear this weekend, Schumacher was pushing on and over the limit at times, mistakes here and there, I personally think he's doing more than what the car is capable of over a single lap, but this is naturally not the fastest way to get through a race. Rosberg meanwhile put in a steady drive but never seemed like he was pushing the limits.


Interesting to see Rosberg driving like an experienced old driver before retirement and Schumacher driving like an eager (impatient) and risk-taker young driver.

#11577 SeanValen

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:04

I think team(his race engineer) could warned him about stepping over white line and green stuff there after what happen with Vettel. It was easy thing to do.



Maybe, but how often does lightening strike twice, in the same place, on the same track, in the same corner. Schumacher knew about white lines because he did the same back in 2002, but when your pushing, your not thinking too much about past adventures, were talking centimetres, and Schuey will try and squeeze every bit of track he can, but it don't always go to plan.

If anyone knows that corner better, it's gotta be MS, but even because you know it well, you still end up tyring to out do what you did before, he's always exploring limits, track changes/tyres change, every lap is not exactly the same.

Edited by SeanValen, 24 July 2011 - 16:06.


#11578 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:10

Maybe, but how often does lightening strike twice, in the same place, on the same track, in the same corner. Schumacher knew about white lines because he did the same back in 2002, but when your pushing, your not thinking too much about past adventures, were talking centimetres, and Schuey will try and squeeze every bit of track he can, but it don't always go to plan.

If anyone knows that corner better, it's gotta be MS, but even because you know it well, you still end up tyring to out do what you did before, he's always exploring limits, track changes/tyres change, every lap is not exactly the same.

As I said the problem there was the water, without water there ,there wouldn't be a problem. I think one warning could be good thing to do. I think this artificial grass with water was the problem. Not the corner.


#11579 VresiBerba

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:14

This time his mistake had nothing to do with pushing too hard.

He put his car where he did for a reason and I think that reason was because he was pushing.

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#11580 VresiBerba

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:23

I think team(his race engineer) could warned him about stepping over white line and green stuff there after what happen with Vettel. It was easy thing to do. It was wet there. If it was dry, there wouldn't be a problem.

What a ridiculous suggestion. Shumi knows how to drive his car, he doesn't need directions from his team.

#11581 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 17:57

What a ridiculous suggestion. Shumi knows how to drive his car, he doesn't need directions from his team.

How this is telling him how to drive? If you see oil in some corner(water on artificial grass and white line,causing the spin for Vettel) ,what you have to do to keep quiet or to tell your driver about the danger?

#11582 DutchCruijff

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 18:05

What a ridiculous suggestion. Shumi knows how to drive his car, he doesn't need directions from his team.

Lmfao, if there's a puddle just outside the line your driver is using then of course as an engineer it's your duty to notify him of it.

#11583 arknor

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 19:23

Lmfao, if there's a puddle just outside the line your driver is using then of course as an engineer it's your duty to notify him of it.

hows the engineer going to know theres a puddle does he go around the circuit every lap checking?

#11584 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 19:25

hows the engineer going to know theres a puddle does he go around the circuit every lap checking?

He will see that Vettel didn't just decided to spin because he didn't have what else to do?
"After the race, Ross reflected on the team’s performance: “Things looked pretty good for us in the early stages of the race, with Nico running strongly in the top six, and he seemed set for a top six finish. However, the pace was not there in the third stint, which cost him a position. As for Michael, we believe that he braked on a damp patch on the way into turn 10, which caused him to spin. After that, he drove a strong recovery to finish less than ten seconds behind Nico. We saw some good racing all through the field today, with our drivers involved in plenty of it, and scored a few more important points for our Championship position.”

Edited by ivand911, 24 July 2011 - 19:28.


#11585 baddog

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 20:50

Oh and he put a lovely move on Petrov twice.. the one where he followed Nico through was great opportunism, and the other was old school Michael.

As for the damp patch.. that was the green bit outside the white line, he took too much kerb and hit the wet astroturf, was obvious ;)

Edited by baddog, 24 July 2011 - 20:51.


#11586 arknor

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 21:05

He will see that Vettel didn't just decided to spin because he didn't have what else to do?
"After the race, Ross reflected on the team’s performance: “Things looked pretty good for us in the early stages of the race, with Nico running strongly in the top six, and he seemed set for a top six finish. However, the pace was not there in the third stint, which cost him a position. As for Michael, we believe that he braked on a damp patch on the way into turn 10, which caused him to spin. After that, he drove a strong recovery to finish less than ten seconds behind Nico. We saw some good racing all through the field today, with our drivers involved in plenty of it, and scored a few more important points for our Championship position.”

hindsight

#11587 GoRacing

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:32

I get the feeling that a really good result for MS is round the corner, apart from the silly mistakes, his race pace is very good, matching the slower RB, Ferrari or Mclaren. He was very quick in Monaco after his first pitstop. Mercedes seems to have certainly got over the high wear rate of their rear tyres, here's hoping for a good race in Hungary.

#11588 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 13:48

Oh and he put a lovely move on Petrov twice.. the one where he followed Nico through was great opportunism, and the other was old school Michael.

As for the damp patch.. that was the green bit outside the white line, he took too much kerb and hit the wet astroturf, was obvious ;)

the recovery was pretty bad, he tried to drift his way but ended up having to do a spin and turn the car after it stopped -> lost way too much time.
he should have spun a bit earlier and not drift so much. you could actually have the car pointing in the right direction.

#11589 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 14:28

It almost looked like he had a problem putting the car into gear or something after his turn.

Would've been a lovely recovery had it succeeded :p.

#11590 pUs

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 14:33

Perhaps Shumi should concentrate on not being faster than Nico, and just do his thing


What a ridiculous suggestion. Shumi knows how to drive his car, he doesn't need directions from his team.


Make up your mind... does the man know how to drive or not? Personally I'm not worried at all, infact his trendline is looking brilliant at the moment. Just remember who told you :love:



#11591 George Costanza

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 15:32

I sense Schumacher is getting there as he was with Ferrari whereas compared to last season which we all agree he was not quite there, this year he has been getting "there" to the level he was before. However, still quite a ways to go.

I think at Hungary he will be pretty fast; after all, he has some pretty good moments there )1998, 2000, 2001 and 2005) as well as some bad moments where the car and tires did not work well (1997, 2003, 2010)

I predict he will do well this year.

#11592 britishtrident

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 16:32

I sense Schumacher is getting there as he was with Ferrari whereas compared to last season which we all agree he was not quite there, this year he has been getting "there" to the level he was before. However, still quite a ways to go.

I think at Hungary he will be pretty fast; after all, he has some pretty good moments there )1998, 2000, 2001 and 2005) as well as some bad moments where the car and tires did not work well (1997, 2003, 2010)

I predict he will do well this year.


He is getting nowhere, it is time this pathetic charade stopped and he gave his place to a young hopeful.

#11593 sharo

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 17:06

He is getting nowhere, it is time this pathetic charade stopped and he gave his place to a young hopeful.

:lol:
MS is anything but Santa Claus and by his own words quite a time ago he's not there to make presents

#11594 jav

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 17:08

He is getting nowhere, it is time this pathetic charade stopped and he gave his place to a young hopeful.



Yes- becuase someone like DiResta or Riciardo put their elder team mates to shame in Germany. :lol:

#11595 Poep

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 17:49

I sense Schumacher is getting there as he was with Ferrari whereas compared to last season which we all agree he was not quite there, this year he has been getting "there" to the level he was before. However, still quite a ways to go.

I think at Hungary he will be pretty fast; after all, he has some pretty good moments there )1998, 2000, 2001 and 2005) as well as some bad moments where the car and tires did not work well (1997, 2003, 2010)

I predict he will do well this year.

I agree with you. His race pace this season reminds me of the old Schumi. He is getting himself into trouble, but he really makes up most of that time verry quickly (relatively spoken).

You can see he is pushing the limits of the car (unlike Rosberg). Sure, it forces out mistakes, but that's what a team in development needs. Pushing the limits to understand what the car lacks in terms of behaviour. Also, MS needs to push for himself to develop his old skills again and again. I am 100% sure Michael still has room for improvement.

Don't wory guys. The results don't show it, but MS is on it again. :cool:

p.s. hope Aldo Costa joins Mercedes..... :well:

#11596 Group B

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 18:19

He is getting nowhere, it is time this pathetic charade stopped and he gave his place to a young hopeful.

:rolleyes:
Your opinions are almost as pointless as your namesake.

#11597 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 18:47

It almost looked like he had a problem putting the car into gear or something after his turn.

Would've been a lovely recovery had it succeeded :p.

I simply think the car lacks the torque to pull off such a power slide...

#11598 jj2728

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 20:23

I'd like to know what people think and no I am NOT trying to stir things up.....far be it from me to do that ;), but my question or questions is/are this, is Schumacher capable still of ringing everything he can out of the car, overcoming it deficiencies and winning with it? Can he do with the Mercedes what he did with the Ferrari in 1996? I'm not trying to compare eras and we all know that technology has gained leaps and bounds over the years, but does he have the capabilities to cope with it and win? Honestly, I've seen flashes of the old MS and personally I do think he can do it, yet I was just wondering what everyone else thought on this without it hopefully turning into one giant slagging match.......

#11599 OoxLox

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 22:00

I'm not a big fan of MSC, but he had a good drive to recover from that mistake, and in the race I had to applaud a great bit of driving as he was following Alguersuari out of the final bend (lap 41 - I'm just watching it again on iplayer). He got on the power earlier and had to back off or lose a front wing. He used *exactly* the right amount of lift to avoid Jaime's rear end while keeping maximum momentum and following him close enough the make the pass a foregone conclusion. You see so many drivers lifting too much and losing the opportunity in circumstances like that. Not bad reactions for an old fella and beautiful throttle control :up:

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#11600 TheMortalBard

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 01:14

I'd like to know what people think and no I am NOT trying to stir things up.....far be it from me to do that ;), but my question or questions is/are this, is Schumacher capable still of ringing everything he can out of the car, overcoming it deficiencies and winning with it? Can he do with the Mercedes what he did with the Ferrari in 1996? I'm not trying to compare eras and we all know that technology has gained leaps and bounds over the years, but does he have the capabilities to cope with it and win? Honestly, I've seen flashes of the old MS and personally I do think he can do it, yet I was just wondering what everyone else thought on this without it hopefully turning into one giant slagging match.......


I think he is very much capable of getting the best out of the car. I think he is already doing that in terms of race pace. Rosberg is definitely managing qualifying better than MSC. No question there at all. However MSC has the better starts and first laps. He also takes more risks and you get the feeling he is racing. Somehow with Rosberg, with all due respect and he deserves that, it seems he is driving more than racing. But that does give Nico more points than MSC but is maybe not as exciting to watch. Watch his first lap move on Button a few days ago ! The old man still has it and I really believe that.

In 1996, the Ferrari wasn't as bad as the Mercedes 2011 in comparison to the cars ahead. Unable to make top 5 ? No. Unreliable ? Yes. Eddie has close to 10 retirements that year !! In 2011, it's reversed. Cars are generally much more reliable today and Merc struggles to make the Top 5. In Germany, the Merc's fastest lap was a second slower than the big three. That is a lot and both drivers need a good car first in order to fight the three teams in front.