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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#11551 Diablobb81

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:36

It's almost like these things are related, isn't it. Uncanny, even. Perhaps Shumi should concentrate on not being faster than Nico, and just do his thing.


This time his mistake had nothing to do with pushing too hard.

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#11552 MCh000

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:45

Michael looks better and better, but must sort his problems in qualifying. Really don't see any reasons for him to quit next season.

#11553 SeanValen

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:45

The pace was very good to very impressive today! I couldn't believe it when he set that 35.6 lap, that must've been extremely good.

...but, it's these small mistakes and mishaps...

Hungaroring next up. He should be the fastest Merc-driver there.




Schumacher's race pace does not reflect his qualifying pace, and Nico is the opposite, infact both should really be about on even points, and Michael has made it easier for Nico, but the thing is you can't keep a faster car back for too long, sooner or later MS is going to threaten a big result, like Canada, which was robbed of us because of the FIA didn't let the drivers race wet tyres in the rain, waited unil conditions were fine for inters, so that decision alone cost MS at least 10 points or more, maybe the win or 2nd place at least we see the potential, and Nico was not anywhere near there, FIA cost Michael there., being too soft about drivers driving in the rain! last year at times, everyone was wondering if the race pace was ever there at times.

I also think Michael is being extremely proffessional about mercedes issues, he didn't blame the team in the press last year, when his F-duct or chassic cost him time in qualifying sessions and races, he came out with the revelations later in a low key way as to defend his actual performances, which I quite understand, and Mr Haug confirmed.

I do think there's a clear reason why Michael's qualifying pace in Q3 was so far off Nico, it could be a drs/kers issue, but given the team's place in the championship, these mistakes I assume are a nautral cost of a team trying to move foward, now unless it's race wins and poles, MS hasn't been as vocal as or other drivers might be, he's too expererienced for that.



#11554 BRK

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:45

The pace was very good to very impressive today! I couldn't believe it when he set that 35.6 lap, that must've been extremely good.

...but, it's these small mistakes and mishaps...


That's a fair assessment. To me, the trend was clear this weekend, Schumacher was pushing on and over the limit at times, mistakes here and there, I personally think he's doing more than what the car is capable of over a single lap, but this is naturally not the fastest way to get through a race. Rosberg meanwhile put in a steady drive but never seemed like he was pushing the limits.

It's like I said last week, the car is shit and they have no way of keeping up with the front runners: I do hope Michael keeps this up and keeps driving on the limit, it's that sort of driving that pays off in time when you're in a midfield car (probably not so with a front runner). If he is able to keep this sort of pace and on the limit stuff up he will land a podium or even a win in due course: I would take this anyday over consistent midfield finishes over the course of a season.

Edited by BRK, 24 July 2011 - 15:46.


#11555 SeanValen

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:58

Another thing, had it rained half way through the race, I really think that Michael could of done something, like Canada, it's there for him, but the racing gods are not giving him the rain or the FIA like in Canada are holding our rain thirsty drivers behind safety cars too long, that's what mercedes needs, rain. Last year I had by doubts, but I think Schumacher is getting on tops of these tyres in the races, and just needs the elements to come to him and the FIA to shut up and let everyone drive like they always did in the rain.




If testing returns as well, mercedes could do with it, as their simulator technology is not up to other teams spec, so could be good for the team and MS to work things out before gp events, something that was natural for MS before his comeback.

#11556 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 15:58

I think team(his race engineer) could warned him about stepping over white line and green stuff there after what happen with Vettel. It was easy thing to do. It was wet there. If it was dry, there wouldn't be a problem.

Edited by ivand911, 24 July 2011 - 16:02.


#11557 weston

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:04

That's a fair assessment. To me, the trend was clear this weekend, Schumacher was pushing on and over the limit at times, mistakes here and there, I personally think he's doing more than what the car is capable of over a single lap, but this is naturally not the fastest way to get through a race. Rosberg meanwhile put in a steady drive but never seemed like he was pushing the limits.


Interesting to see Rosberg driving like an experienced old driver before retirement and Schumacher driving like an eager (impatient) and risk-taker young driver.

#11558 SeanValen

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:04

I think team(his race engineer) could warned him about stepping over white line and green stuff there after what happen with Vettel. It was easy thing to do.



Maybe, but how often does lightening strike twice, in the same place, on the same track, in the same corner. Schumacher knew about white lines because he did the same back in 2002, but when your pushing, your not thinking too much about past adventures, were talking centimetres, and Schuey will try and squeeze every bit of track he can, but it don't always go to plan.

If anyone knows that corner better, it's gotta be MS, but even because you know it well, you still end up tyring to out do what you did before, he's always exploring limits, track changes/tyres change, every lap is not exactly the same.

Edited by SeanValen, 24 July 2011 - 16:06.


#11559 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:10

Maybe, but how often does lightening strike twice, in the same place, on the same track, in the same corner. Schumacher knew about white lines because he did the same back in 2002, but when your pushing, your not thinking too much about past adventures, were talking centimetres, and Schuey will try and squeeze every bit of track he can, but it don't always go to plan.

If anyone knows that corner better, it's gotta be MS, but even because you know it well, you still end up tyring to out do what you did before, he's always exploring limits, track changes/tyres change, every lap is not exactly the same.

As I said the problem there was the water, without water there ,there wouldn't be a problem. I think one warning could be good thing to do. I think this artificial grass with water was the problem. Not the corner.


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#11560 VresiBerba

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:14

This time his mistake had nothing to do with pushing too hard.

He put his car where he did for a reason and I think that reason was because he was pushing.

#11561 VresiBerba

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 16:23

I think team(his race engineer) could warned him about stepping over white line and green stuff there after what happen with Vettel. It was easy thing to do. It was wet there. If it was dry, there wouldn't be a problem.

What a ridiculous suggestion. Shumi knows how to drive his car, he doesn't need directions from his team.

#11562 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 17:57

What a ridiculous suggestion. Shumi knows how to drive his car, he doesn't need directions from his team.

How this is telling him how to drive? If you see oil in some corner(water on artificial grass and white line,causing the spin for Vettel) ,what you have to do to keep quiet or to tell your driver about the danger?

#11563 DutchCruijff

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 18:05

What a ridiculous suggestion. Shumi knows how to drive his car, he doesn't need directions from his team.

Lmfao, if there's a puddle just outside the line your driver is using then of course as an engineer it's your duty to notify him of it.

#11564 arknor

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 19:23

Lmfao, if there's a puddle just outside the line your driver is using then of course as an engineer it's your duty to notify him of it.

hows the engineer going to know theres a puddle does he go around the circuit every lap checking?

#11565 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 19:25

hows the engineer going to know theres a puddle does he go around the circuit every lap checking?

He will see that Vettel didn't just decided to spin because he didn't have what else to do?
"After the race, Ross reflected on the team’s performance: “Things looked pretty good for us in the early stages of the race, with Nico running strongly in the top six, and he seemed set for a top six finish. However, the pace was not there in the third stint, which cost him a position. As for Michael, we believe that he braked on a damp patch on the way into turn 10, which caused him to spin. After that, he drove a strong recovery to finish less than ten seconds behind Nico. We saw some good racing all through the field today, with our drivers involved in plenty of it, and scored a few more important points for our Championship position.”

Edited by ivand911, 24 July 2011 - 19:28.


#11566 baddog

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 20:50

Oh and he put a lovely move on Petrov twice.. the one where he followed Nico through was great opportunism, and the other was old school Michael.

As for the damp patch.. that was the green bit outside the white line, he took too much kerb and hit the wet astroturf, was obvious ;)

Edited by baddog, 24 July 2011 - 20:51.


#11567 arknor

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 21:05

He will see that Vettel didn't just decided to spin because he didn't have what else to do?
"After the race, Ross reflected on the team’s performance: “Things looked pretty good for us in the early stages of the race, with Nico running strongly in the top six, and he seemed set for a top six finish. However, the pace was not there in the third stint, which cost him a position. As for Michael, we believe that he braked on a damp patch on the way into turn 10, which caused him to spin. After that, he drove a strong recovery to finish less than ten seconds behind Nico. We saw some good racing all through the field today, with our drivers involved in plenty of it, and scored a few more important points for our Championship position.”

hindsight

#11568 GoRacing

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:32

I get the feeling that a really good result for MS is round the corner, apart from the silly mistakes, his race pace is very good, matching the slower RB, Ferrari or Mclaren. He was very quick in Monaco after his first pitstop. Mercedes seems to have certainly got over the high wear rate of their rear tyres, here's hoping for a good race in Hungary.

#11569 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 13:48

Oh and he put a lovely move on Petrov twice.. the one where he followed Nico through was great opportunism, and the other was old school Michael.

As for the damp patch.. that was the green bit outside the white line, he took too much kerb and hit the wet astroturf, was obvious ;)

the recovery was pretty bad, he tried to drift his way but ended up having to do a spin and turn the car after it stopped -> lost way too much time.
he should have spun a bit earlier and not drift so much. you could actually have the car pointing in the right direction.

#11570 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 14:28

It almost looked like he had a problem putting the car into gear or something after his turn.

Would've been a lovely recovery had it succeeded :p.

#11571 pUs

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 14:33

Perhaps Shumi should concentrate on not being faster than Nico, and just do his thing


What a ridiculous suggestion. Shumi knows how to drive his car, he doesn't need directions from his team.


Make up your mind... does the man know how to drive or not? Personally I'm not worried at all, infact his trendline is looking brilliant at the moment. Just remember who told you :love:



#11572 George Costanza

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 15:32

I sense Schumacher is getting there as he was with Ferrari whereas compared to last season which we all agree he was not quite there, this year he has been getting "there" to the level he was before. However, still quite a ways to go.

I think at Hungary he will be pretty fast; after all, he has some pretty good moments there )1998, 2000, 2001 and 2005) as well as some bad moments where the car and tires did not work well (1997, 2003, 2010)

I predict he will do well this year.

#11573 britishtrident

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 16:32

I sense Schumacher is getting there as he was with Ferrari whereas compared to last season which we all agree he was not quite there, this year he has been getting "there" to the level he was before. However, still quite a ways to go.

I think at Hungary he will be pretty fast; after all, he has some pretty good moments there )1998, 2000, 2001 and 2005) as well as some bad moments where the car and tires did not work well (1997, 2003, 2010)

I predict he will do well this year.


He is getting nowhere, it is time this pathetic charade stopped and he gave his place to a young hopeful.

#11574 sharo

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 17:06

He is getting nowhere, it is time this pathetic charade stopped and he gave his place to a young hopeful.

:lol:
MS is anything but Santa Claus and by his own words quite a time ago he's not there to make presents

#11575 jav

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 17:08

He is getting nowhere, it is time this pathetic charade stopped and he gave his place to a young hopeful.



Yes- becuase someone like DiResta or Riciardo put their elder team mates to shame in Germany. :lol:

#11576 Poep

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 17:49

I sense Schumacher is getting there as he was with Ferrari whereas compared to last season which we all agree he was not quite there, this year he has been getting "there" to the level he was before. However, still quite a ways to go.

I think at Hungary he will be pretty fast; after all, he has some pretty good moments there )1998, 2000, 2001 and 2005) as well as some bad moments where the car and tires did not work well (1997, 2003, 2010)

I predict he will do well this year.

I agree with you. His race pace this season reminds me of the old Schumi. He is getting himself into trouble, but he really makes up most of that time verry quickly (relatively spoken).

You can see he is pushing the limits of the car (unlike Rosberg). Sure, it forces out mistakes, but that's what a team in development needs. Pushing the limits to understand what the car lacks in terms of behaviour. Also, MS needs to push for himself to develop his old skills again and again. I am 100% sure Michael still has room for improvement.

Don't wory guys. The results don't show it, but MS is on it again. :cool:

p.s. hope Aldo Costa joins Mercedes..... :well:

#11577 Group B

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 18:19

He is getting nowhere, it is time this pathetic charade stopped and he gave his place to a young hopeful.

:rolleyes:
Your opinions are almost as pointless as your namesake.

#11578 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 18:47

It almost looked like he had a problem putting the car into gear or something after his turn.

Would've been a lovely recovery had it succeeded :p.

I simply think the car lacks the torque to pull off such a power slide...

#11579 jj2728

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 20:23

I'd like to know what people think and no I am NOT trying to stir things up.....far be it from me to do that ;), but my question or questions is/are this, is Schumacher capable still of ringing everything he can out of the car, overcoming it deficiencies and winning with it? Can he do with the Mercedes what he did with the Ferrari in 1996? I'm not trying to compare eras and we all know that technology has gained leaps and bounds over the years, but does he have the capabilities to cope with it and win? Honestly, I've seen flashes of the old MS and personally I do think he can do it, yet I was just wondering what everyone else thought on this without it hopefully turning into one giant slagging match.......

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#11580 OoxLox

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 22:00

I'm not a big fan of MSC, but he had a good drive to recover from that mistake, and in the race I had to applaud a great bit of driving as he was following Alguersuari out of the final bend (lap 41 - I'm just watching it again on iplayer). He got on the power earlier and had to back off or lose a front wing. He used *exactly* the right amount of lift to avoid Jaime's rear end while keeping maximum momentum and following him close enough the make the pass a foregone conclusion. You see so many drivers lifting too much and losing the opportunity in circumstances like that. Not bad reactions for an old fella and beautiful throttle control :up:

#11581 TheMortalBard

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 01:14

I'd like to know what people think and no I am NOT trying to stir things up.....far be it from me to do that ;), but my question or questions is/are this, is Schumacher capable still of ringing everything he can out of the car, overcoming it deficiencies and winning with it? Can he do with the Mercedes what he did with the Ferrari in 1996? I'm not trying to compare eras and we all know that technology has gained leaps and bounds over the years, but does he have the capabilities to cope with it and win? Honestly, I've seen flashes of the old MS and personally I do think he can do it, yet I was just wondering what everyone else thought on this without it hopefully turning into one giant slagging match.......


I think he is very much capable of getting the best out of the car. I think he is already doing that in terms of race pace. Rosberg is definitely managing qualifying better than MSC. No question there at all. However MSC has the better starts and first laps. He also takes more risks and you get the feeling he is racing. Somehow with Rosberg, with all due respect and he deserves that, it seems he is driving more than racing. But that does give Nico more points than MSC but is maybe not as exciting to watch. Watch his first lap move on Button a few days ago ! The old man still has it and I really believe that.

In 1996, the Ferrari wasn't as bad as the Mercedes 2011 in comparison to the cars ahead. Unable to make top 5 ? No. Unreliable ? Yes. Eddie has close to 10 retirements that year !! In 2011, it's reversed. Cars are generally much more reliable today and Merc struggles to make the Top 5. In Germany, the Merc's fastest lap was a second slower than the big three. That is a lot and both drivers need a good car first in order to fight the three teams in front.

#11582 SeanValen

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:40

I think he is very much capable of getting the best out of the car. I think he is already doing that in terms of race pace. Rosberg is definitely managing qualifying better than MSC. No question there at all. However MSC has the better starts and first laps. He also takes more risks and you get the feeling he is racing. Somehow with Rosberg, with all due respect and he deserves that, it seems he is driving more than racing. But that does give Nico more points than MSC but is maybe not as exciting to watch. Watch his first lap move on Button a few days ago ! The old man still has it and I really believe that.

In 1996, the Ferrari wasn't as bad as the Mercedes 2011 in comparison to the cars ahead. Unable to make top 5 ? No. Unreliable ? Yes. Eddie has close to 10 retirements that year !! In 2011, it's reversed. Cars are generally much more reliable today and Merc struggles to make the Top 5. In Germany, the Merc's fastest lap was a second slower than the big three. That is a lot and both drivers need a good car first in order to fight the three teams in front.




Nico said his car wasn't handeling as well as qualifying, if it was, he'll be a podium man, but that has been the case this year, Nico's quali pace hasn't reflected the pace we expect to see in the race, but Michael is the opposite, Michael's race pace is perhaps the reason why his qualifying is slightly less, he has missed out on beating Nico in some sessions by thousanths of a second, not tenths! So he's been very close at times, and then backed up with stronger race pace, so i think Nicol's qualifying , or whatever he's doing with the car/driving with the car/set up is actually making him far more stronger sometimes in qualifying, but the opposite effect is, race pace is cut. This reminds me alot of Jarno Trulli a bit, but I would rate Rosberg higher then trulli, but the pattern I'm seeing is similar this year especially.

If you look at Spain/Monaco, in Spain Michael decided to not even run in Q3-smart move, although he outqualified Nico there in 2010, and Monaco in 2010/2011 Schumacher looked strong all weekend, his DNF at Monaco was a shame, while Rosberg didn't do much in comparison.

With DRS/Kiers, Michael has every right to concentrate on race set up, drivers can now overtake, qualifying means less, but I also do think Nico is actually flattering his race day expectations on everyone by always qualifying higher and losing positions alot of the time, it's not what the car should do, and maybe they need to look into that, and Michael might actually start to outqualify him more, not that it's the most important thing with these rules, but we've seen qualifying and race pace ratio is not always on song, if one is better, the other is slightly less, and that's what were seeing with Michael and Nico.


Maybe it's the set up and limited options they have to change things after qualifying, that not all f1 cars can be flexiable from qualifying to race, maybe Nico is risking race pace a bit for qualifying, because he knows Michael is going to attack race set up anyway, who knows, maybe it's the way they drive the car, the tyres, there's so many factors, on some tracks Nico will be strong all weekend regardness like at China/Valencia this year, clearly strong all sessions, but other weekends, inconsistent, China/Valencia are of alot of slow/tricky/micky mouse corners, this is Rosberg's advantage, as Michael can only try to equal slow corner pace, but faster corners is where Michael gets his laptimes in.


The overall picture is a mess of many sessions, but I can see the pattern developing, last year, I had doubts, but with f duct not working at times last year, and mercedes having general problems, it wasn't the ideal year for a returning driver like Michael, this year everything is in place more to learn, the only thing missing is a faster car ,and or more rain lol, and the FIA allowing drivers to go for it, Canada 2011 should of been a Mercedes 2nd place at least for Michael, and who knows maybe a win, vettel spun later in the race-less rain, for me that was the what if situation of the year, Michael Schumacher back on the attack in the rain, showing that Spa 98/95/97 grit, FIA let the track dry out too much, which isn't what teams like mercedes and drivers like MS need in the rain, they let it dry out so much, that wet tyres didn't need to be brought to the race lol That was horriable, I think clearly a 2nd place was robbed from Michael there, and the opportunity to keep Vettel honest at the end.


We need more raiin races, Michael was up for it at the nurburgring, it didn't come.

Edited by SeanValen, 26 July 2011 - 11:53.


#11583 Group B

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:50

I'd like to know what people think and no I am NOT trying to stir things up.....far be it from me to do that ;), but my question or questions is/are this, is Schumacher capable still of ringing everything he can out of the car, overcoming it deficiencies and winning with it? Can he do with the Mercedes what he did with the Ferrari in 1996? I'm not trying to compare eras and we all know that technology has gained leaps and bounds over the years, but does he have the capabilities to cope with it and win? Honestly, I've seen flashes of the old MS and personally I do think he can do it, yet I was just wondering what everyone else thought on this without it hopefully turning into one giant slagging match.......

Is he as quick/consistent as in 1996? No. Is he quick/consistent enough to merit his seat? Recent race pace says cleary Yes.



#11584 Johnrambo

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 12:44

Is he as quick/consistent as in 1996? No. Is he quick/consistent enough to merit his seat? Recent race pace says cleary Yes.


MS is flattered being teamed with Nico Boutsen.

#11585 jav

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 12:59

MS is flattered being teamed with Nico Boutsen.


MS has lost something relative to his prime. I still think he's capable of extracting 100% out of the car. I think he's smarter than Nico and focuses his setup efforts towards heavier race weights and setups and Nico probably focuses more on light race weights and setups. This would explain the qualifying and lap one differences between them.

I don't believe MS (or Nico) can haul this car onto the podium on race craft alone....the car isn't good enough for that. If there's some attrition and luck, maybe- but not on pure merit. That is less an indictment of the drivers than the car in my view.

I believe MS knows this and takes greater risks than he would otherwise need to becuase that's the only way to advance this car beyond it's capabilies... but that's his only play with these cards. From there, we get what we see- the risks haven't always panned out and the reliable approach is effective at picking up crumbs.

#11586 JensonWDC

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 14:12

MS is flattered being teamed with Nico Boutsen.


Rather Nico Vettel. Really quick on saturdays but once there waits a tough job on sunday with overtaking, not running in clean air ... they fade.

#11587 arknor

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 16:37

I'd like to know what people think and no I am NOT trying to stir things up.....far be it from me to do that ;), but my question or questions is/are this, is Schumacher capable still of ringing everything he can out of the car, overcoming it deficiencies and winning with it?

i doubt anyone can these days when the tyres and fuel dont reward flat out driving for the whole race. also back in the day cars would suit some circuits and not others these days the top 3 teams are fast everywhere and people would retire, i think the reason we se less retirements is due to the fact the cars arent really put under stress for a full race they just drive around in fuel and tyre saving mode for so long


#11588 Group B

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 16:43

MS is flattered being teamed with Nico Boutsen.

:yawnface:

#11589 blager

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:10

If he could cut out the rookie mistakes...
Michael Schumacher onboard start

#11590 Diablobb81

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:17

Awesome move on Petrov.

#11591 Rikhart

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:46

If he could cut out the rookie mistakes...
Michael Schumacher onboard start


That´s absolutely top notch driving, can´t say how anyone keeps downplaying what he is doing, at his age. He is now much faster than his highly rated team mate every single race, too.

#11592 Scotracer

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 09:20

If he could cut out the rookie mistakes...
Michael Schumacher onboard start


Utterly fantastic stuff. He is the most aggressive driver from the start these days. Pity about his qualifying, though.

#11593 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 09:29

the move on petrov was great. it took button half a race to find a way (with DRS)

#11594 Sakae

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 10:46

If he could cut out the rookie mistakes...
Michael Schumacher onboard start


What's your problem with Schumacher?

#11595 baddog

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:36

What's your problem with Schumacher?

I think his point (and its a good one) is that if he can drive like THAT, and not ruin it with silly mistakes and mad qualies then he would be bloody amazing!

#11596 Sakae

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 13:02

My problem is that I do not know how to determine what is a "mistake". These individuals do strive to drive on the limit, and it is conceiveable, that they may cross that limit and slide, go off, etc. To me it's part of racing, and hardly a mistake, especially when equipment reacts unpredictably. Take your commuter driving - you know what is your breaking zone for the car you drive daily; you "know" that vehicle, yet one day you bump into someone, because brakes let you down, or a road condition changed. Was that a mistake on your part? Maybe, but maybe not, because these issues are part of risk we take as soon as wheels start rolling.

I can imagine that Schumacher has the same issues with his car. In Ferrari his horse managed to stop in pits with millimeter accuracy. His mind and bulk of metal was one. Today what I see is a driver who aims at apex, and car has mind on its own; there is no symbiotic relationship - as yet, and it might never be in next 1.5 seasons. Point is, is it his mistake, or symptoms of vehicle which is not up to his level of performance he expects of it?

Edited by Sakae, 27 July 2011 - 13:05.


#11597 blager

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 13:07

I think his point (and its a good one) is that if he can drive like THAT, and not ruin it with silly mistakes and mad qualies then he would be bloody amazing!

Exactly!
Watching this clip should make any fan of Schumacher very happy but highly frustrated. This is what he is capable of but silly mistakes have not been truly showing the results his starts, skill and race pace deserve.
They HAVE been rookie mistakes he shouldn't be making. His after race interview clearly showed he knew that as well.
The strange thing about his starts is that I don't remember him being famed for them in his early career. It was the complete opposite!

#11598 baddog

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 13:09

My problem is that I do not know how to determine what is a "mistake". These individuals do strive to drive on the limit, and it is conceiveable, that they may cross that limit and slide, go off, etc. To me it's part of racing, and hardly a mistake, especially when equipment reacts unpredictably. Take your commuter driving - you know what is your breaking zone for the car you drive daily; you "know" that vehicle, yet one day you bump into someone, because brakes let you down, or a road condition changed. Was that a mistake on your part? Maybe, but maybe not, because these issues are part of risk we take as soon as wheels start rolling.

I can imagine that Schumacher has the same issues with his car. In Ferrari his horse managed to stop in pits with millimeter accuracy. His mind and bulk of metal was one. Today what I see is a driver who aims at apex, and car has mind on its own; there is no symbiotic relationship - as yet, and it might never be in next 1.5 seasons. Point is, is it his mistake, or symptoms of vehicle which is not up to his level of performance he expects of it?

The mistakes I am talking about are things like going too wide before breaking for the chicane and spinning in germany, or misjudging the first DRS braking and hitting another car the race before.

In general driving accuracy he seems to have made huge strides. In race form its all looking very good.

#11599 blager

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 13:20

My problem is that I do not know how to determine what is a "mistake". These individuals do strive to drive on the limit, and it is conceiveable, that they may cross that limit and slide, go off, etc. To me it's part of racing, and hardly a mistake, especially when equipment reacts unpredictably. Take your commuter driving - you know what is your breaking zone for the car you drive daily; you "know" that vehicle, yet one day you bump into someone, because brakes let you down, or a road condition changed. Was that a mistake on your part? Maybe, but maybe not, because these issues are part of risk we take as soon as wheels start rolling.

I can imagine that Schumacher has the same issues with his car. In Ferrari his horse managed to stop in pits with millimeter accuracy. His mind and bulk of metal was one. Today what I see is a driver who aims at apex, and car has mind on its own; there is no symbiotic relationship - as yet, and it might never be in next 1.5 seasons. Point is, is it his mistake, or symptoms of vehicle which is not up to his level of performance he expects of it?

My take on it is this.
If Michael said he made a mistake then it was HIS mistake.
That is all we can go on unless the team corrects it themselves afterwards.
In the last race it was obviously not a problem with the car he just drove a little too wide and hit the wet AstroTurf.
The frustration for him must surely come from the fact that he does these mistakes. In this case finishing only finishes 10 seconds behind Nico at this GP. Sets a faster lap than Nico. Has better race pace overall.
But Nico beat him with steady smart driving and most importantly no mistakes!


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#11600 ramad

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 13:43

My problem is that I do not know how to determine what is a "mistake". These individuals do strive to drive on the limit, and it is conceiveable, that they may cross that limit and slide, go off, etc. To me it's part of racing, and hardly a mistake, especially when equipment reacts unpredictably. Take your commuter driving - you know what is your breaking zone for the car you drive daily; you "know" that vehicle, yet one day you bump into someone, because brakes let you down, or a road condition changed. Was that a mistake on your part? Maybe, but maybe not, because these issues are part of risk we take as soon as wheels start rolling.

I can imagine that Schumacher has the same issues with his car. In Ferrari his horse managed to stop in pits with millimeter accuracy. His mind and bulk of metal was one. Today what I see is a driver who aims at apex, and car has mind on its own; there is no symbiotic relationship - as yet, and it might never be in next 1.5 seasons. Point is, is it his mistake, or symptoms of vehicle which is not up to his level of performance he expects of it?

:up: :up: