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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#11651 Disgrace

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 20:20

... but I see his struggle with the equipment which has nothing to do with age; at least I do not think so.


This is an interesting idea and I believe you're being hasty in dismissing it. Perhaps if we saw Rosberg and Schumacher in an all-conquering Red Bull that is easier to drive, the order would be reversed and we would have a valid reason. Perhaps a difficult car exaggerates Schumachers elder reflexes.

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#11652 spacekid

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 22:19

I don't think Schumis reflexes are the problem. He was fine in the rain in Canada, and his start at Germany was very tidy.

I'm starting to think he just spent too long driving the Ferrari which became a car very specific for him, and now the car does not suit him at all and he is too old to unlearn everything he learnt over 10 years and develop a new style that works for these cars.

#11653 Rikhart

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 22:29

Why do some keep talking about schumacher as if he is being dominated by rosberg? It´s actually the other way around, from 4/5 races back, schum is quite a bit faster in race pace. Not to mention the HUGE racecraft difference. He´s a perfectly valid driver even at his age, and a good asset to the team. Who cares if he overdrives sometimes, and finishes 8th instead of 7th...

#11654 jav

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 23:22

Why do some keep talking about schumacher as if he is being dominated by rosberg? It´s actually the other way around, from 4/5 races back, schum is quite a bit faster in race pace. Not to mention the HUGE racecraft difference. He´s a perfectly valid driver even at his age, and a good asset to the team. Who cares if he overdrives sometimes, and finishes 8th instead of 7th...



..... agreed. Look how many posts any thread with his name gets. See how many story's are done based on him. He's not done- and while Nico is still getting the better of him in qualifying, that's the only place where he is.

#11655 Scotracer

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 23:36

Are you two forgetting qualifying? The average gap between them so far this year is Michael being slower by +0.335s and he's only beaten Rosberg once. Also Rosberg has reached Q3 at every race with Michael doing so only 6 times out of 10. When did that ever happen in his previous career stint?



#11656 Frans

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:43

It is me, or are the so called "anti's" more happy with Michael's return than his fans? :lol: It seems to me to be like this.


And by antoher note, the man is old, and from the pre-Playstation era. I dare to say it here: EVEN I CAN BEAT MICHAEL ON A SIMULATOR GAME!

And Mark it, Dream it AND Believe it! Because you know it's true! Some bleu-ball on a forum on the interweb can beat the 7 time world champion, using buttons!
He is not showing any talent in that this season.... (DRS / Boost button)

#11657 Group B

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:47

Are you two forgetting qualifying? The average gap between them so far this year is Michael being slower by +0.335s and he's only beaten Rosberg once. Also Rosberg has reached Q3 at every race with Michael doing so only 6 times out of 10. When did that ever happen in his previous career stint?

It's beyond dispute that MS is slower than 10 years ago, especially in qualifying, but from my point of view he's doing enough in the race to justify his being there. Rosberg is no donkey, but in the last half dozen races MS has been both faster and feistier.

#11658 BRK

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:49

I'm not worried about anything at this stage, the trend seems to be that he's caught up and is very quick in the races, he's pushing very hard with the car at hand and is extracting the maximum out of it -all that effort will pay off sooner or later. :up:

#11659 Johnrambo

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:10

And by antoher note, the man is old, and from the pre-Playstation era. I dare to say it here: EVEN I CAN BEAT MICHAEL ON A SIMULATOR GAME!


Don't be so sure! Let's not forget in 1994 when JJ Lehto was his teammate Schumacher had steering wheel with many more buttons than JJ.... This was told by JJ some years back.

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#11660 ivand911

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 10:03

Don't be so sure! Let's not forget in 1994 when JJ Lehto was his teammate Schumacher had steering wheel with many more buttons than JJ.... This was told by JJ some years back.

If true, it is normal. Different driver preferences. Like different pedals for different braking preferences. Maybe Michael wanted something on his steering wheel? So what?


#11661 Frans

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 10:39

Don't be so sure! Let's not forget in 1994 when JJ Lehto was his teammate Schumacher had steering wheel with many more buttons than JJ.... This was told by JJ some years back.



What "So what" ivan? it's highly important!

Well JohnRambo, I KNOW why that was, and Jos had the same problem. Those extra buttons where to activate secret option 13 in the software, which enabled Launch control (illegal in 1994) and also Traction control (also illegal in 1994) what gave Michael the edge to become worldchampion in that one single more buttoned (illegal) Benetton.

It determined the entire 1994 season, from beginning to end and other cheats that season by the same team and players also made Jos Verstappen a fried Burger.

Letho AND Jos spoke about it, Senna also, and one can add up one + one. In my book, Michael is NO 1994 Worldchampion, only and ONLY because of the way he took it.

#11662 BRK

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:59

:lol:

#11663 CodeRacing

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:59

Does Shumi have any kids?

#11664 ivand911

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:33

Does Shumi have any kids?

Yes, two. Girl and boy(around 12-13 year old).


#11665 fieraku

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 14:09

So should I scratch a Schumi podium from my wishlist,again? :|

#11666 Augurk

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 14:11

So should I scratch a Schumi podium from my wishlist,again? :|

Shouldn't have been on there for this race. If any, this track will show MGP's weaknesses.

#11667 fieraku

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 14:13

Shouldn't have been on there for this race. If any, this track will show MGP's weaknesses.

I know,but I was hoping for rain.Seems unlikely.

#11668 Augurk

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:06

Expect another tenth place on the grid. Just through to Q3, then not even doing a lap I think. Saving supersofts.

Although, that would probably be the best strategy, so they probably won't go for it and still waste all SS sets.

#11669 Urawa

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:07

His car was understeering like hell on low fuel and SS tyres. It took ages untill he could go on the throttle before T13.
Might pay off for tomorrow though but qualifying will be no joke, 8-12 is my guess.

#11670 arknor

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:18

What "So what" ivan? it's highly important!

Well JohnRambo, I KNOW why that was, and Jos had the same problem. Those extra buttons where to activate secret option 13 in the software, which enabled Launch control (illegal in 1994) and also Traction control (also illegal in 1994) what gave Michael the edge to become worldchampion in that one single more buttoned (illegal) Benetton.

It determined the entire 1994 season, from beginning to end and other cheats that season by the same team and players also made Jos Verstappen a fried Burger.

Letho AND Jos spoke about it, Senna also, and one can add up one + one. In my book, Michael is NO 1994 Worldchampion, only and ONLY because of the way he took it.

you speak some rubbish you know for a fact that the l;aunch control could only be turned on via a laptop connected to the car by an external connection...

it wasnt traction control and the investigatoras were happy it had never been used during a race go watch some of the races ffs you can clearly see some bad starts , alot of loss of traction in corners etc

#11671 Group B

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:24

you speak some rubbish you know for a fact that the l;aunch control could only be turned on via a laptop connected to the car by an external connection...

it wasnt traction control and the investigatoras were happy it had never been used during a race go watch some of the races ffs you can clearly see some bad starts , alot of loss of traction in corners etc

Don't waste your breath. Frans has had a pathalogical hatred of MS for at least a decade and probably much longer; no amount of reason, logic, evidence or common sense will even make a dent.

#11672 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:02

Q3 and not place 10. :)

No balance with those SS.

#11673 Lelouch

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:03

Q3 and not place 10. :)

No balance with those SS.


That Q3 run was a bit pointless imo..

#11674 Augurk

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:04

Q3 and not place 10. :)

No balance with those SS.

Perez did no run though. Perhaps Schu's set up for heavy fuel again. At least he'll be on the clean side of the track.



#11675 Urawa

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:04

Q3 and not place 10. :)

No balance with those SS.


the heavy understeering should switch into a more neutral/oversteering tomorrow with max fuel load, should be fine.

#11676 Johnrambo

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:07

Schumacher was absolutely pathetic again. Time to retire and not shame Mercedes any more.

#11677 Massa_f1

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:07

What a dismal lap time. MASSIVE gap to Rosberg. I dont know why bothers. I really dont. :(

#11678 topical

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:08

Schumacher was absolutely pathetic again. Time to retire and not shame Mercedes any more.


:up:

#11679 Augurk

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:09

What a dismal lap time. MASSIVE gap to Rosberg. I dont know why bothers. I really dont. :(

Smaller gap than in Germany. Will probably have good race pace again. Car just seems incredibly difficult to handle on his setup.

Hopefully no mistakes tomorrow and he should be able to finish in front of Rosberg.

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#11680 vovelo

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:09

Perhaps Schu's set up for heavy fuel again.

Yeah, his pace on prime was even better compare to Nico and near 0.8-1 sec off on options.
Perhaps he will try to save SS as long as possible on first stint.

Edited by vovelo, 30 July 2011 - 13:10.


#11681 Sof1

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:12

This was really bad. 1 sec diff. For the second race in a row. I don't get it!

#11682 ivand911

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:12

What a dismal lap time. MASSIVE gap to Rosberg. I dont know why bothers. I really dont. :(

Biggest problem will be spin or to keep FW tomorrow, for now two places behind Nico is not problem. Michael have usually bad Qualy, but usually he lose in the races with some mistake. He wanted 9th than 8th according to his interview(clear side).


#11683 Urawa

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:13

He´ll be 8th, maybe 7th after the first lap anyway. The rest is preserve the tyres as much as you can.

Edited by Urawa, 30 July 2011 - 13:14.


#11684 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:14

Judging from his interview post-quali, in which he said that had they know Perez wasn't driving, they would've approached the lap differently, I can only conclude that he had no hopes whatsoever for more today.

#11685 ali.unal

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:16

Now it's become a vicious circle for Schumacher supporters.

Agony on Saturday night, joy on Sunday night.

I think Schumacher totally accepted Rosberg's one-lap advantage and started to tune himself and car onto the race (if there ever was such thing).

#11686 Lelouch

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:16

I don't care about the gap as long as it's explained by the different set up( i don't know if it is though ). What worries me is the tyres, Sutil and Perez will have an advantage in that area.

Edited by Lelouch, 30 July 2011 - 13:17.


#11687 SeanValen

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:20

What a dismal lap time. MASSIVE gap to Rosberg. I dont know why bothers. I really dont. :(




One of the reasons why I think current qualifying 3 sessions is not MS's best sessions this and last year, is mainley because he has concentrated on race set up regardless of whatever happens on qualifying, he cannot with the curernt rules/tyres/cars, tinker with the car on saturday, while having a car on sunday, because it don't make sense to just to be fast like Rosberg without comprimising race set up, Rosberg will go for qualifying regardless, maybe choice, or maybe the way his set up/style goes. Schumacher's race pace could of easily delivered the same or more points then Nico in the last races.


If Rosberg has race pace that reflects his quali time, which it didn't in the last races, then Schumacher's done a bad job this weekend, but like previous weekends. qualifying is not that important with these rules, and it might actually be the best strategy for the team, and it seems if Rosberg wants or just his style is to be jarno trulli like and fall back or sometimes stay stationary in the race, while Schumacher moves forward and rarely stays stationery, that's the pattern of the season with these current rules/cars.

I think their both doing their best job, they are going in different ways, but can get similar results, and or in case of Michael be threatening higher positions by the end of the race, which is what counts, saturdays right now for this team are not the end of the world. Beat Renault and consolidate 4th place, on target.











#11688 mrmusicman

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:25

One of the reasons why I think current qualifying 3 sessions is not MS's best sessions this and last year, is mainley because he has concentrated on race set up regardless of whatever happens on qualifying, he cannot with the curernt rules/tyres/cars, tinker with the car on saturday, while having a car on sunday, because it don't make sense to just to be fast like Rosberg without comprimising race set up, Rosberg will go for qualifying regardless, maybe choice, or maybe the way his set up/style goes. Schumacher's race pace could of easily delivered the same or more points then Nico in the last races.


The qualifying system in 2006 was the same as it is now apart from race fuel. Michael was a great champion and he has been given enough time to deliver but his time has run out. Being 1 second a lap slower than his team mate 3 times this season is just not acceptable. It's time for managment to step in and remove him from the car or convince him to retire right away and stop the misery and embaressment. The excuses have run out.

#11689 Fortymark

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:27

Ouch, 8 tenths :eek:

#11690 Augurk

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:29

The qualifying system in 2006 was the same as it is now apart from race fuel.

Well that's kind of a major difference then isn't it? Back then everyone would be set up for race fuel.

#11691 ivand911

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:35

The qualifying system in 2006 was the same as it is now apart from race fuel. Michael was a great champion and he has been given enough time to deliver but his time has run out. Being 1 second a lap slower than his team mate 3 times this season is just not acceptable. It's time for managment to step in and remove him from the car or convince him to retire right away and stop the misery and embaressment. The excuses have run out.

You think so? They get the points tomorrow if you don't know. Qualy have less influence in the race now. To start 7th or 8th or 9th or 12, in Michael case is not big difference. So, they don't focus on Qualy speed with Michael. He need no mistakes in the races, rest is easy.

Edited by ivand911, 30 July 2011 - 13:36.


#11692 arknor

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:38

Ouch, 8 tenths :eek:

wont be 8 tenths come race day though , i suspect schumachers bad experiences with the F-duct and the DRS flow attaching has made him paranoid of using it around the circuit where as maybe nico is using it as much as he can.

i guess only the team will really know, what other reason casn there be for ms beeing so much slower in qually but fine come race day

#11693 RedBaron

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:40

Schumacher must have made a mistake, which of course isn't good. He hasn't been anything like - or looked to be anything like 8 tenths off all weekend. Shame, it'll be down to his race pace now, if only he'd start a little higher.

#11694 mrmusicman

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:43

Well that's kind of a major difference then isn't it? Back then everyone would be set up for race fuel.



Most of Michaels career was under low fuel qualifying regulations.

#11695 ivand911

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:44

Schumacher must have made a mistake, which of course isn't good. He hasn't been anything like - or looked to be anything like 8 tenths off all weekend. Shame, it'll be down to his race pace now, if only he'd start a little higher.

Their best bet is 7th ,8th if first 6 don't make mistake. So he couldn't get any further even if he started 7th. He can jump somebody for one stint ,but later speed will decide his position.


#11696 Augurk

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:45

Most of Michaels career was under low fuel qualifying regulations.

And lack of parc ferme rules.

#11697 Paco

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:54

Here's to hoping that he's being stubborn and compromising qualifying for a better race.. even though he'll probably run wide or get into bump with someone and adversely affect his race.. thereby making him look bad on Saturday again. :rolleyes:

man this has JV signature all over again at Sauber.

#11698 vovelo

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 14:30

Michael Schumacher (9th, 1:21.907): "The positive thing that I can take from qualifying today is that I will be starting from the better side of the grid in ninth place. However there are also things which we need to investigate further as the first two sectors did not work out well for us today. They were fine with the prime tyres, but not with the super softs, so we will have a close look into the reasons why. As always, we will try to do the best that we can in the race tomorrow."

#11699 EdwardCullen

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 14:32

Michael Schumacher (9th, 1:21.907): "The positive thing that I can take from qualifying today is that I will be starting from the better side of the grid in ninth place. However there are also things which we need to investigate further as the first two sectors did not work out well for us today. They were fine with the prime tyres, but not with the super softs, so we will have a close look into the reasons why. As always, we will try to do the best that we can in the race tomorrow."

He had that exact same problem last race aswell, Weird!
i dont know what is the problem! Why wasnt it fixed?

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#11700 Jazza

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 14:45

He had that exact same problem last race aswell, Weird!
i dont know what is the problem! Why wasnt it fixed?


Because if they fixed it you would have no one to cheer for.

Schuamcher has been average in q3 since he returned. He is either making mistakes, or he is being too cautious. It can't be the car every single race weekend, as the car seems fine in all the other sessions including the race. He obviously doesn't like doing one hot lap in q3, so I don't see what the team can do to fix that, except for giving him two hot laps and hoping that he gets one of them right.

Edited by Jazza, 30 July 2011 - 14:47.