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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#11651 Sakae

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 22:32

The Ferrari of 1996 was far from perfect.

Oh yes, and did he win with it? He struggled. There were some Williams's cars in his way. Previous (my) point was, if the car is tuned up, and he becomes comfortable with it, he will rise from ashes, and even people like Clatter will be suprised. However even mighty Schumacher cannot turn utter dog into a contender. Nico's races are uninspiring, nothing to go by; I dismiss those.

Edited by Sakae, 27 July 2011 - 22:33.


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#11652 jj2728

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 23:48

Oh yes, and did he win with it? He struggled.


He won 3 races with it, Spain, Belgium, Italy.

#11653 Sakae

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 01:27

He won 3 races with it, Spain, Belgium, Italy.



Yes, of course - I meant he didn't win WDC that year. :D

This and next year he is not going to win WDC either, but he might take it on podium here and there, if possible at all. MGP is too far behind to close gap next year, unless miracle is in the offing, but that I doubt.

#11654 Frans

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:28

One can better compare t he Mercedes GP car with the 2000-2001 Arrows car.
Only... the Arrows did better ... (or the drivers?)

Could be the driver ... could be the car ... Touche.

Edited by Frans, 28 July 2011 - 09:30.


#11655 arknor

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:36

One can better compare t he Mercedes GP car with the 2000-2001 Arrows car.
Only... the Arrows did better ... (or the drivers?)

Could be the driver ... could be the car ... Touche.

so where did the arrows finish in the constructors championship ?

#11656 GerhardBerger

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:48

Oh yes, and did he win with it? He struggled. There were some Williams's cars in his way. Previous (my) point was, if the car is tuned up, and he becomes comfortable with it, he will rise from ashes, and even people like Clatter will be suprised. However even mighty Schumacher cannot turn utter dog into a contender. Nico's races are uninspiring, nothing to go by; I dismiss those.


He ws unable to challenge mainly because the car was so unreliable.

Anyway we saw him mount a serious challenge in 97 with a much inferior car to the Williams'.

#11657 mrmusicman

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:58

Oh yes, and did he win with it? He struggled.


He utterly dominated his team mate by a massive margin, won 3 races he shouldnt have and was universally regarded as the driver of the season. Sad to see him struggling so much these days, no speed, no race craft just crashing and being slow and then acting puzzled when its pretty clear the reasons for it. Hopefully he retires at the end of the year.

#11658 Augurk

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:02

One can better compare t he Mercedes GP car with the 2000-2001 Arrows car.
Only... the Arrows did better ... (or the drivers?)

Could be the driver ... could be the car ... Touche.

Funny you should compare Jos to Michael. I believe they have driven head to head in the same team during some year.. memory a bit lacking though, could you remind me who got out on top when they did?

#11659 slaveceru

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:30

My last comment about Schumacher driving was at the beginning of this year and I said to my self that I will not comment until I will see some progress in case of his driving skills and in comparison to his team mate. There are still some problems in one quick lap, but races are stronger. So is there still someone who actually believes that Nick would still be a better solution for Mercedes F1 team as several of you have mentioned last year and at the beginning of this year?

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#11660 sharo

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:37

My last comment about Schumacher driving was at the beginning of this year and I said to my self that I will not comment until I will see some progress in case of his driving skills and in comparison to his team mate. There are still some problems in one quick lap, but races are stronger. So is there still someone who actually believes that Nick would still be a better solution for Mercedes F1 team as several of you have mentioned last year and at the beginning of this year?

I guess as65 does :)

#11661 Frans

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:10

Funny you should compare Jos to Michael. I believe they have driven head to head in the same team during some year.. memory a bit lacking though, could you remind me who got out on top when they did?


Let's not go there. But he and Jos did kart a lot with each other, and I mean for years, and a LOT! And well.... Jos could overtake Schumi backwards in karts, it's no F1, no I know, but same material and stuff, little power compared to F1 of course, but karting is a bit close to racing and is loved by all f1 drivers, once was the only way to come into f1.

#11662 MightyMoose

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:17

...snip (to protect those who have you on ignore).


Arrows 2001 vs Merc 2011.... lol, not even a comparable case in any shape or form.
Thanks for bringing us up to speed on karting though. Now back to reality.

Edited by ForeverF1, 28 July 2011 - 12:30.
If you think a member is trolling, use the report function. Removed "In reality you were just trolling and had no basis for your latest rant against MS."


#11663 Clatter

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:20

Let's not go there. But he and Jos did kart a lot with each other, and I mean for years, and a LOT! And well.... Jos could overtake Schumi backwards in karts, it's no F1, no I know, but same material and stuff, little power compared to F1 of course, but karting is a bit close to racing and is loved by all f1 drivers, once was the only way to come into f1.


That has never been true, but karting is the way the majority of drivers probably start their racing careers, no matter what the series.

#11664 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 14:00

The difference between a young, prime Rosberg and an old, shot, over-the-hill Schumacher is smaller than the difference between Vettel-Webber, Button-Hamilton and Alonso-Massa IMO.

If Rosberg is still rated so highly, then surely Schumacher cannot be too far off either.

#11665 ivand911

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 16:53

Posted Image
What will be this time Michael? Spin or Front Wing?

#11666 Frans

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 16:57

"Night Immer aber Immer ofter..."

"P11"

:drunk:

#11667 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 17:09

P10 is the new P11. :rolleyes: :p

He should focus more on quali setup like his teamate. :rotfl:

Edited by Diablobb81, 28 July 2011 - 17:10.


#11668 Sakae

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 19:36

Posted Image
What will be this time Michael? Spin or Front Wing?


Give it a rest, Ivan. If you are loosing interest in this driver, than there is Petrov thread or whatever, please.

Edited by Sakae, 28 July 2011 - 19:37.


#11669 ivand911

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 20:05

Give it a rest, Ivan. If you are loosing interest in this driver, than there is Petrov thread or whatever, please.

You can take this things less seriously! ;) If I want to make joke with Michael I would make a joke.

He should focus more on quali setup like his teamate. :rotfl:

No he just need to use the same car configuration. On Saturday they both use very different cars. You can find by Saturday pictures:
Nico:big holes at the back for cooling , no chimneys on the sidepod:
http://motorsport.ne...y-23jul/254.jpg
http://motorsport.ne...y-23jul/511.jpg
http://motorsport.ne...y-23jul/656.jpg
http://motorsport.ne...y-23jul/251.jpg
http://motorsport.ne...y-23jul/264.jpg
http://www.gpupdate..../181684/#181684

Michael: chimneys on sidepods, gils,three holes for cooling on top of the sidepods.
http://motorsport.ne...y-23jul/268.jpg
http://motorsport.ne...y-23jul/282.jpg
http://motorsport.ne...y-23jul/357.jpg
This is where Qualy difference came from. Maybe there was inside(car) difference too. For the race they both drive the car in Michael configuration, so I guess they have both different strategy for the Qualy and race. Michael use race configuration in Qualy and Nico used Qualy configuration in Qualy, if he use also race configuration they would be pretty close in Qualy.

"Schumacher only needs good car to win again - Alonso "
http://motorsport.ne...extgen-Auto.com

Edited by ivand911, 28 July 2011 - 20:45.


#11670 Disgrace

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 20:20

... but I see his struggle with the equipment which has nothing to do with age; at least I do not think so.


This is an interesting idea and I believe you're being hasty in dismissing it. Perhaps if we saw Rosberg and Schumacher in an all-conquering Red Bull that is easier to drive, the order would be reversed and we would have a valid reason. Perhaps a difficult car exaggerates Schumachers elder reflexes.

#11671 spacekid

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 22:19

I don't think Schumis reflexes are the problem. He was fine in the rain in Canada, and his start at Germany was very tidy.

I'm starting to think he just spent too long driving the Ferrari which became a car very specific for him, and now the car does not suit him at all and he is too old to unlearn everything he learnt over 10 years and develop a new style that works for these cars.

#11672 Rikhart

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 22:29

Why do some keep talking about schumacher as if he is being dominated by rosberg? It´s actually the other way around, from 4/5 races back, schum is quite a bit faster in race pace. Not to mention the HUGE racecraft difference. He´s a perfectly valid driver even at his age, and a good asset to the team. Who cares if he overdrives sometimes, and finishes 8th instead of 7th...

#11673 jav

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 23:22

Why do some keep talking about schumacher as if he is being dominated by rosberg? It´s actually the other way around, from 4/5 races back, schum is quite a bit faster in race pace. Not to mention the HUGE racecraft difference. He´s a perfectly valid driver even at his age, and a good asset to the team. Who cares if he overdrives sometimes, and finishes 8th instead of 7th...



..... agreed. Look how many posts any thread with his name gets. See how many story's are done based on him. He's not done- and while Nico is still getting the better of him in qualifying, that's the only place where he is.

#11674 Scotracer

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 23:36

Are you two forgetting qualifying? The average gap between them so far this year is Michael being slower by +0.335s and he's only beaten Rosberg once. Also Rosberg has reached Q3 at every race with Michael doing so only 6 times out of 10. When did that ever happen in his previous career stint?



#11675 Frans

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:43

It is me, or are the so called "anti's" more happy with Michael's return than his fans? :lol: It seems to me to be like this.


And by antoher note, the man is old, and from the pre-Playstation era. I dare to say it here: EVEN I CAN BEAT MICHAEL ON A SIMULATOR GAME!

And Mark it, Dream it AND Believe it! Because you know it's true! Some bleu-ball on a forum on the interweb can beat the 7 time world champion, using buttons!
He is not showing any talent in that this season.... (DRS / Boost button)

#11676 Group B

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:47

Are you two forgetting qualifying? The average gap between them so far this year is Michael being slower by +0.335s and he's only beaten Rosberg once. Also Rosberg has reached Q3 at every race with Michael doing so only 6 times out of 10. When did that ever happen in his previous career stint?

It's beyond dispute that MS is slower than 10 years ago, especially in qualifying, but from my point of view he's doing enough in the race to justify his being there. Rosberg is no donkey, but in the last half dozen races MS has been both faster and feistier.

#11677 BRK

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:49

I'm not worried about anything at this stage, the trend seems to be that he's caught up and is very quick in the races, he's pushing very hard with the car at hand and is extracting the maximum out of it -all that effort will pay off sooner or later. :up:

#11678 Johnrambo

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:10

And by antoher note, the man is old, and from the pre-Playstation era. I dare to say it here: EVEN I CAN BEAT MICHAEL ON A SIMULATOR GAME!


Don't be so sure! Let's not forget in 1994 when JJ Lehto was his teammate Schumacher had steering wheel with many more buttons than JJ.... This was told by JJ some years back.

#11679 ivand911

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 10:03

Don't be so sure! Let's not forget in 1994 when JJ Lehto was his teammate Schumacher had steering wheel with many more buttons than JJ.... This was told by JJ some years back.

If true, it is normal. Different driver preferences. Like different pedals for different braking preferences. Maybe Michael wanted something on his steering wheel? So what?


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#11680 Frans

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 10:39

Don't be so sure! Let's not forget in 1994 when JJ Lehto was his teammate Schumacher had steering wheel with many more buttons than JJ.... This was told by JJ some years back.



What "So what" ivan? it's highly important!

Well JohnRambo, I KNOW why that was, and Jos had the same problem. Those extra buttons where to activate secret option 13 in the software, which enabled Launch control (illegal in 1994) and also Traction control (also illegal in 1994) what gave Michael the edge to become worldchampion in that one single more buttoned (illegal) Benetton.

It determined the entire 1994 season, from beginning to end and other cheats that season by the same team and players also made Jos Verstappen a fried Burger.

Letho AND Jos spoke about it, Senna also, and one can add up one + one. In my book, Michael is NO 1994 Worldchampion, only and ONLY because of the way he took it.

#11681 BRK

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:59

:lol:

#11682 CodeRacing

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:59

Does Shumi have any kids?

#11683 ivand911

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:33

Does Shumi have any kids?

Yes, two. Girl and boy(around 12-13 year old).


#11684 fieraku

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 14:09

So should I scratch a Schumi podium from my wishlist,again? :|

#11685 Augurk

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 14:11

So should I scratch a Schumi podium from my wishlist,again? :|

Shouldn't have been on there for this race. If any, this track will show MGP's weaknesses.

#11686 fieraku

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 14:13

Shouldn't have been on there for this race. If any, this track will show MGP's weaknesses.

I know,but I was hoping for rain.Seems unlikely.

#11687 Augurk

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:06

Expect another tenth place on the grid. Just through to Q3, then not even doing a lap I think. Saving supersofts.

Although, that would probably be the best strategy, so they probably won't go for it and still waste all SS sets.

#11688 Urawa

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:07

His car was understeering like hell on low fuel and SS tyres. It took ages untill he could go on the throttle before T13.
Might pay off for tomorrow though but qualifying will be no joke, 8-12 is my guess.

#11689 arknor

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:18

What "So what" ivan? it's highly important!

Well JohnRambo, I KNOW why that was, and Jos had the same problem. Those extra buttons where to activate secret option 13 in the software, which enabled Launch control (illegal in 1994) and also Traction control (also illegal in 1994) what gave Michael the edge to become worldchampion in that one single more buttoned (illegal) Benetton.

It determined the entire 1994 season, from beginning to end and other cheats that season by the same team and players also made Jos Verstappen a fried Burger.

Letho AND Jos spoke about it, Senna also, and one can add up one + one. In my book, Michael is NO 1994 Worldchampion, only and ONLY because of the way he took it.

you speak some rubbish you know for a fact that the l;aunch control could only be turned on via a laptop connected to the car by an external connection...

it wasnt traction control and the investigatoras were happy it had never been used during a race go watch some of the races ffs you can clearly see some bad starts , alot of loss of traction in corners etc

#11690 Group B

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:24

you speak some rubbish you know for a fact that the l;aunch control could only be turned on via a laptop connected to the car by an external connection...

it wasnt traction control and the investigatoras were happy it had never been used during a race go watch some of the races ffs you can clearly see some bad starts , alot of loss of traction in corners etc

Don't waste your breath. Frans has had a pathalogical hatred of MS for at least a decade and probably much longer; no amount of reason, logic, evidence or common sense will even make a dent.

#11691 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:02

Q3 and not place 10. :)

No balance with those SS.

#11692 Lelouch

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:03

Q3 and not place 10. :)

No balance with those SS.


That Q3 run was a bit pointless imo..

#11693 Augurk

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:04

Q3 and not place 10. :)

No balance with those SS.

Perez did no run though. Perhaps Schu's set up for heavy fuel again. At least he'll be on the clean side of the track.



#11694 Urawa

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:04

Q3 and not place 10. :)

No balance with those SS.


the heavy understeering should switch into a more neutral/oversteering tomorrow with max fuel load, should be fine.

#11695 Johnrambo

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:07

Schumacher was absolutely pathetic again. Time to retire and not shame Mercedes any more.

#11696 Massa_f1

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:07

What a dismal lap time. MASSIVE gap to Rosberg. I dont know why bothers. I really dont. :(

#11697 topical

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:08

Schumacher was absolutely pathetic again. Time to retire and not shame Mercedes any more.


:up:

#11698 Augurk

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:09

What a dismal lap time. MASSIVE gap to Rosberg. I dont know why bothers. I really dont. :(

Smaller gap than in Germany. Will probably have good race pace again. Car just seems incredibly difficult to handle on his setup.

Hopefully no mistakes tomorrow and he should be able to finish in front of Rosberg.

#11699 vovelo

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:09

Perhaps Schu's set up for heavy fuel again.

Yeah, his pace on prime was even better compare to Nico and near 0.8-1 sec off on options.
Perhaps he will try to save SS as long as possible on first stint.

Edited by vovelo, 30 July 2011 - 13:10.


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#11700 Sof1

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 13:12

This was really bad. 1 sec diff. For the second race in a row. I don't get it!