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#11851 as65p

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 17:52

Of which Schumacher has 1,473, 154, and 91, while Rosberg has 265.5, 5, and zero.


Ah, the past... the golden country! Surely MS himself must be feeling a bit embarassed by those mega stats, I guess he has only come back to put a bit of perspective to it. Good man! :up:

Meanwhile, back from the nostalgia section... :drunk:

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#11852 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 17:53

I thought many people said Heidfeld epitomizes the unspectacular but fairly consistent F1 racing driver.

Then again, Heidfeld has not proven to be better than Petrov and Kubica managed to win a race using the same machinery while at BMW. Rosberg, on the other hand, has been faring well against his teammates and can't really be accused of not getting the most out of the car he is driving. But then again, he needs to get his hands on a car that can win to prove his worth.

Not much to do with Schumacher though.

#11853 Prost1997T

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 18:24

Rosberg, on the other hand, has been faring well against his teammates and can't really be accused of not getting the most out of the car he is driving. But then again, he needs to get his hands on a car that can win to prove his worth.

Not much to do with Schumacher though.


I was discussing Rosberg in the context of his performance v MSc. Michael's style might well be balls out but it's not getting the results lately. He seems to be fighting the car too much and making mistakes that are uncharacteristic of someone with his experience.

#11854 Afterburner

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 19:05

Ah, the past... the golden country! Surely MS himself must be feeling a bit embarassed by those mega stats, I guess he has only come back to put a bit of perspective to it. Good man! :up:

Meanwhile, back from the nostalgia section... :drunk:

Last time I checked, those stats were from the whole of his career, not just a part of it--I don't know how you come to the conclusion that my bringing up the stats from his full career is evidence of nostalgia. Sounds like a generalisation to me--and I could've sworn you were criticising someone else not too long ago for coming to a generalisation from a few laptimes, too... :drunk:

As long as he is racing, Schumacher has the potential to add to his stats. And as long as it's points, podiums, and wins that count, then--even assuming that a single driver wins every race over the next four years--Schumacher can race until he's 46 without scoring another point and still be the statistically greatest driver in the field, let alone F1 history.

Not to mention the fact that his record of sixty-eight poles isn't going to be topped for another three years, at the very minimum, either--but we must remember that points, podiums, and wins are what count. ;)

#11855 as65p

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 19:29

Last time I checked, those stats were from the whole of his career, not just a part of it--I don't know how you come to the conclusion that my bringing up the stats from his full career is evidence of nostalgia. Sounds like a generalisation to me--and I could've sworn you were criticising someone else not too long ago for coming to a generalisation from a few laptimes, too... :drunk:

As long as he is racing, Schumacher has the potential to add to his stats. And as long as it's points, podiums, and wins that count, then--even assuming that a single driver wins every race over the next four years--Schumacher can race until he's 46 without scoring another point and still be the statistically greatest driver in the field, let alone F1 history.

Not to mention the fact that his record of sixty-eight poles isn't going to be topped for another three years, at the very minimum, either--but we must remember that points, podiums, and wins are what count.;)


He didn't add to any of the latter two since his comeback, for 30-odd races now. All he achieved is lowering his percentages. So, what potential?

Yeah, I know, next answer is he's having fun. :p

#11856 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 19:37

He didn't add to any of the latter two since his comeback, for 30-odd races now. All he achieved is lowering his percentages. So, what potential?

Yeah, I know, next answer is he's having fun. :p


I think he is making a shitload of money also.

#11857 Afterburner

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 19:45

He didn't add to any of the latter two since his comeback, for 30-odd races now. All he achieved is lowering his percentages. So, what potential?

Yeah, I know, next answer is he's having fun. :p

For all we know, Merc could develop a rocketship next year--one so far ahead of the field that even someone with no potential for victory (Schumacher, in this case ;)) could win in it. Anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does. If you don't believe Merc is going to win--ever--there's nothing wrong with that, but you can't discount the possibility of Merc creating a car fast enough for Schumacher to win with next year.

#11858 as65p

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 20:01

For all we know, Merc could develop a rocketship next year--one so far ahead of the field that even someone with no potential for victory (Schumacher, in this case ;)) could win in it. Anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does. If you don't believe Merc is going to win--ever--there's nothing wrong with that, but you can't discount the possibility of Merc creating a car fast enough for Schumacher to win with next year.


In this case, the former champion finishing the season way behind the new WDC Rosberg will be making the headlines more than anything else. :D

#11859 Afterburner

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 20:09

In this case, the former champion finishing the season way behind the new WDC Rosberg will be making the headlines more than anything else. :D

Haha, if that's your opinion, then I'm completely fine with that--we're all entitled to our own speculations. :) In any case, Schumacher's career isn't over yet--time will tell how we'll be talking about him after he runs his last race, though I get the impression our opinions probably won't be the same regardless of what happens. :p

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#11860 black magic

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 21:58

It is interesting how perception has changed, our attempts to analyse supremacy not withstanding.

last yr some believed nico was potentiallay top tier based on his overall outshining michael.

this year the perception grows stronger regardless of what you think of michaels performance that nico is more journyman, based on his consistant slide form his starting position and reletive passivity with a faster package behind him eg the ease with which massa could get past him vs michael.

it also implies that most accept that michael has improved this yr - hence nico standing suffers.

#11861 as65p

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:11

Haha, if that's your opinion, then I'm completely fine with that--we're all entitled to our own speculations. :) In any case, Schumacher's career isn't over yet--time will tell how we'll be talking about him after he runs his last race, though I get the impression our opinions probably won't be the same regardless of what happens. :p


Very likely. :)

But to end on a positive note, as sorry as his comeback looks to me, his first career will remain marvellous whatever happens. Frankly, I expect in 10, 20 years time the comeback will be reduced to a footnote to his former achievements, like Mansell@McLaren or the comebacks of Alan Jones.



#11862 Disgrace

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:13

journyman


Outdated, awful, terrible and even ludicrous term to use. Avoid.

Rosberg came into F1 on merit, like his fellow "journeyman" Webber (last driver I saw this term applied to). They were the new guard and the young chargers once as well.

Just because someone only achieves success later in their career, rather than the beginning, doesn't make them a "journeyman" or necessarily any worse than their contemporaries.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 August 2011 - 22:14.


#11863 Raelene

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:20

when do you think he might achieve some succcess?

#11864 Disgrace

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:27

If Mercedes can build a car worthy of wins. Remember, this was supposed to be his big move to the big league. He was signed as a Brawn driver.

Rosberg has often done as well as he can only to come either undone by his team, like Malaysia 2009, his cars lack of pace, like China 2010, or himself like Singapore 2009 (and I suppose to an extent in aforementioned China).

The "problem" with Rosberg is that he is clinical and not in the least bit spectacular to watch which is totally contrary to his 2006/7 self. He's very boring but still he's quick. The other "problem" is that he hasn't had a proper team-mate to compare himself with since his somewhat erratic rookie season.

We don't know whether he is pushing beyond the limits, on the limit of, or below the limit of that Mercedes next to an aged Schumacher who seems to seldom bother with Q3 and makes errors on race day.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 August 2011 - 22:30.


#11865 SeanValen

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:32

Very likely. :)

But to end on a positive note, as sorry as his comeback looks to me, his first career will remain marvellous whatever happens. Frankly, I expect in 10, 20 years time the comeback will be reduced to a footnote to his former achievements, like Mansell@McLaren or the comebacks of Alan Jones.




But to end on a more positive note, prospects of winning with a 3rd team, who helped him into f1 is not closed, it just might take longer, and being the only driver at his time to leave and return to f1 with a 3 year gap, in his 3rd decade of racing, didn't give up despite huge expectations, enjoyed driving grand prix cars, despite having millions and done it all, this is about enjoying life, came back, took a shot at competiting, and gave racing fans someone to root for further down from pole. Mansell quit early at Mclaren, there is no comparison, yet Schumacher likes to build something, doesn't mind being written off, and has alot of belief in himself, you gotta admire someone who's stuck with improving himself, and he has improved from 2010, the rest is in the hands of mercedes, and timing/I'm sure everyone would like to see former champions in cars capable of fighting for podiums/wins consistently/not 6/7th place etc

Canada 2011 was more impressive then anything Mansell did in 1994 at Mclaren, the fact Michael was robbed of a 2nd place, because the FIA deemed wet tyres for wet races unsafe, lets wait for interes lol, there is no excuse for the FIA, they robbed drivers to race in the rain and get a upperhand on faster cars in the dry, that's what happened with Michael. A 2nd place, for a man who's been written off more times then countable, even in his first career, it seems that has followed him into this 2nd career. That's a better positive note I reckon.

#11866 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:36

I have the impression that Schumy is just a little bit frustrated by being beaten by Nico,so he can´t get his head straight.
He had made some good races after his return such as Monaco,Turkey and Spain last year and Canada this year.
Brundle said something very interesting the other day:that Michael hasn´t got the same peripherical vision he once had and that´s why has damaged so many front wings,i don´t believe it,i think he´s still very fit and does that sometimes because as i said above he seems to be a bit desperate to show some results,to prove that his talent hasn´t gone.

Edited by ClockworkRacing, 02 August 2011 - 22:37.


#11867 Raelene

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:42

Disgrace

The "problem" with Rosberg is that he is clinical and not in the least bit spectacular to watch which is totally contrary to his 2006/7 self. He's very boring


I agree with this

#11868 Disgrace

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:43

But I believe he is still quick.  ;)

#11869 Raelene

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:48

I think he's very quick in qualy - but I don't think he's quick in the race.

He reminds me of Heikki when he was at McLarne - Mr Invisible - falls back in the race is unspectacular, is boring - very different from Keke!

Edited by Raelene, 02 August 2011 - 22:49.


#11870 jonnoj

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:51

Outdated, awful, terrible and even ludicrous term to use. Avoid.

Rosberg came into F1 on merit, like his fellow "journeyman" Webber (last driver I saw this term applied to). They were the new guard and the young chargers once as well.

Just because someone only achieves success later in their career, rather than the beginning, doesn't make them a "journeyman" or necessarily any worse than their contemporaries.


It doesn't make them a star either.



#11871 Sakae

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:52

when do you think he might achieve some succcess?



MGP will take at least two or or three years before they will be able competing for the front position, he is getting meanwhile old, and if he leaves, where he will go today? Next to Vettel? Replace Kubica? Nick might win some races, but he cannot emulate Schumacher, Vettel, or others in that class. Lack of opportunity is one, and we will never know what might have been because of his age. I am sorry to say that, but I think NR is finished at F1.

Edited by Sakae, 02 August 2011 - 22:55.


#11872 Bunchies

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 23:00

I think he's very quick in qualy - but I don't think he's quick in the race.

He reminds me of Heikki when he was at McLarne - Mr Invisible - falls back in the race is unspectacular, is boring - very different from Keke!


In regards to Keke, it looks like his spiritual successor is of Japanese ethnicity.

#11873 Raelene

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 23:07

In regards to Keke, it looks like his spiritual successor is of Japanese ethnicity.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

#11874 Disgrace

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 23:11

It doesn't make them a star either.


Indeed not, but I see the term as derogatory as well as outdated. Only at a stretch can the term "journeyman" be used to describe the likes of Sakon Yamamoto.

I think he's very quick in qualy - but I don't think he's quick in the race.

He reminds me of Heikki when he was at McLarne - Mr Invisible - falls back in the race is unspectacular, is boring - very different from Keke!


But that's the thing, he's so unspectacular that you have failed to notice that he doesn't always fall back in the races, at least before 2011.

It has been a pattern this season due to the nature of the car. It is good in qualifying but has no race pace due to the fact it eats rear tyres. Rosberg always qualifies above where the car belongs in race pace terms, maximising the qualifying advantage (like Red Bull have to a greater extent) which is to his credit. Meanwhile, Schumacher simply can't get his act together in qualifying and qualifies well below the cars capacity. However, he's quick in the race (to his credit too) so the gap between Rosberg and Schumacher always decreases in the race towards where the car actually belongs: somewhere in the middle and then they tend to run in unison.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 August 2011 - 23:14.


#11875 Raelene

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 23:38

but you get points for the race - no point setting up the car for qualy and then fall back in the race - and he does.

As I said hearlier - he needs to be a bit more aggressive and MSC needs to ease up a little on the agression.

All in all - I'd much prefer an MSC type racer than a Niko type driver

#11876 Disgrace

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 23:46

But qualifying is still important. The likes of Button and MSC give themselves too much work to do on Sunday to make the most of their race pace. Rosberg can go backwards, but if he's an acre ahead of MSC already, he hasn't all that much to worry about (which is why he's so hard to judge).

Most people do prefer "racers" which is the why the likes of Michael command a majority of the fans but I think it's evident that Schumacher is fairly past it. I think it's clear by how he's upped his pace this season, but at the cost of many mistakes. Speaking of rubbish qualifying, being outqualified by amounts resembling Piquet Jr and front wing loss each weekend used be unthinkable. Nonetheless, there were plenty of "racers" to take over after 2006 and there will be when Schumacher decides to call it a day for good.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 August 2011 - 23:49.


#11877 Raelene

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 00:37

I didn't say quaLy wasn't important. It appears to me that Rosberg sets the car up for the one lap glory run - I reckon if he hedges his bets a bit more, he may actually not go backwards so much in the race....

Imagine the drumming he'd be getting if MSC could get his qualies right and reign in his agression a little....not sure Michael has lost a front wing every weekend.

Edited by Raelene, 03 August 2011 - 00:37.


#11878 mrmusicman

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:26

Thanks. So this finally proves that they have different set-ups on Saturday. Michael's setup is more into a race, when Nico's is more into quali. That's why the big gap in the qualifications...


It does not prove anything. Nowhere does it say that the drivers are taking different setup approaches.

#11879 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:34

It does not prove anything. Nowhere does it say that the drivers are taking different setup approaches.


The times say that.

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#11880 mrmusicman

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:51

The times say that.



You seeing what you want to see. Michael might be a little closer in races but that could be a number of factors, mainly down to the fact the car handles better for him with heavy fuel, which does not mean his setups are more tailored to the race. F1 cars are easier to drive with fuel generally because the car is more settled, and the handling less critical than on low fuel. Either way he is happier with the handling in race trim, it seems he struggles to get the most out of the car on fresh tyres.

#11881 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:54

You seeing what you want to see.


Possibly. All i know is that after being equal in quali for a string of races in the next ones a gap appeared. At the same time he developed a better race pace.

#11882 mrmusicman

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:21

Possibly. All i know is that after being equal in quali for a string of races in the next ones a gap appeared. At the same time he developed a better race pace.


I have not seen anyone prove he has really actually had better race pace, and when I say really I don't mean the many times Michael has an accident then pits earlier for fresh tyres and starts going quicker than Rosberg. I mean head to head, same strategy. I highly doubt it.

#11883 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:23

Very likely. :)

But to end on a positive note, as sorry as his comeback looks to me, his first career will remain marvellous whatever happens. Frankly, I expect in 10, 20 years time the comeback will be reduced to a footnote to his former achievements, like Mansell@McLaren or the comebacks of Alan Jones.



Indeed, I agree 100%.

Whenever someone talks of Mansell, they talk of the glory years.

Also, the problem with Schumacher is that he set the bar so high, EVERYONE expects so much of him. Imagine, if this was a rookie in his second year paired with Rosberg, he would be looked upon very favourably, when infact it is a 42 year old about 10 years removed from his prime.

#11884 Johnrambo

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:07

Canada 2011 was more impressive then anything Mansell did in 1994 at Mclaren


Mansell drove for Williams in four races in 1994 and won one of them. That is miles better than what Schumacher has managed to do in almost two seasons. The next season he was at McLaren and after two races he realised he was past it and decided to quit unlike some other past champions who keep a seat from fresh talent to fulfill their egoistical needs to have fun.

#11885 arknor

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:42

Mansell drove for Williams in four races in 1994 and won one of them. That is miles better than what Schumacher has managed to do in almost two seasons. The next season he was at McLaren and after two races he realised he was past it and decided to quit unlike some other past champions who keep a seat from fresh talent to fulfill their egoistical needs to have fun.

lol fresh talent theres so many lack lustre drivers on the grid these days schumacher is better than atleast half of the grid

#11886 EdwardCullen

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:46

Mansell drove for Williams in four races in 1994 and won one of them. That is miles better than what Schumacher has managed to do in almost two seasons.

Yeah the Williams 1994 car was as competitive as RBR 2011!
Merc 2010 and 2011 can be compared to Jordan 1994 or Lotus 94
Even Yuji Ide would have won Australia 1994 with the best car in the field and the top two drivers taking each other out!
If Michael was driving the RBR in 2010 and 2011, and he didnt have any podiums...then i would have agreed Mansell did better in his comeback.

The next season he was at McLaren and after two races he realised he was past it and decided to quit unlike some other past champions who keep a seat from fresh talent to fulfill their egoistical needs to have fun.

If a young talent was so good, then he would risen to the top ...and would have been in F1 without someone moving over for him.

Edited by EdwardCullen, 03 August 2011 - 11:46.


#11887 sharo

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 13:49

........
unlike some other past champions who keep a seat from fresh talent to fulfill their egoistical needs to have fun.

:rotfl: :rotfl:
A really funny argument.

#11888 DutchCruijff

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 15:22

13 wins a row if it weren't for Montoya. In the 47 races he finished, from Sepang '99 - Suzuka '02, he ended up only twice out of the top three. An engine failure from the '06 title, a broken leg in '99, stupidity in '97 & supposedly a simple lack of cooling in Japan. Ironically the incidents bringing out some of the greatest moments in his career. Blitzing everyone after coming back from a 3 month absence, sublime drive through the field in Japan and a great farewell in Brazil. 11 x WDC, what could have been :| .



#11889 Afterburner

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 16:06

13 wins a row if it weren't for Montoya. In the 47 races he finished, from Sepang '99 - Suzuka '02, he ended up only twice out of the top three. An engine failure from the '06 title, a broken leg in '99, stupidity in '97 & supposedly a simple lack of cooling in Japan. Ironically the incidents bringing out some of the greatest moments in his career. Blitzing everyone after coming back from a 3 month absence, sublime drive through the field in Japan and a great farewell in Brazil. 11 x WDC, what could have been :| .

Indeed, Schumacher has had a surreal career, but you can't really discount the part that the rest of the 'dream team' played in all his success, either. Without Todt, Brawn, and Byrne, it's likely Schumacher wouldn't have achieved what he did--I like to think that it's the four of them who redefined the meaning of 'success' in Formula One, because surely each one played an indispensable part in each of their championship victories. At the core of it all was Schumacher, though--arguably, if not for him, the rest of the dream team would not have come to Ferrari and helped to build the 'empire' that we've come to look back on.

#11890 George Costanza

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 16:07

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Golden moments at Ferrari, 2000.

#11891 George Costanza

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 16:09

13 wins a row if it weren't for Montoya. In the 47 races he finished, from Sepang '99 - Suzuka '02, he ended up only twice out of the top three. An engine failure from the '06 title, a broken leg in '99, stupidity in '97 & supposedly a simple lack of cooling in Japan. Ironically the incidents bringing out some of the greatest moments in his career. Blitzing everyone after coming back from a 3 month absence, sublime drive through the field in Japan and a great farewell in Brazil. 11 x WDC, what could have been :| .





Of course, he he stayed at Benetton: he would have won it from 1994 to 1997; they had Renault engines so it would have been a battle with Williams, but I think Schu would win four straight. Then who knows where he would have went (likely Ferrari, though), or less likely, McLaren Mercedes with Newey. Imagine that: Schu with Newey at McLaren? Oy.

Edited by George Costanza, 04 August 2011 - 16:15.


#11892 Sakae

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 16:41

Indeed, Schumacher has had a surreal career, but you can't really discount the part that the rest of the 'dream team' played in all his success, either. Without Todt, Brawn, and Byrne, it's likely Schumacher wouldn't have achieved what he did--I like to think that it's the four of them who redefined the meaning of 'success' in Formula One, because surely each one played an indispensable part in each of their championship victories. At the core of it all was Schumacher, though--arguably, if not for him, the rest of the dream team would not have come to Ferrari and helped to build the 'empire' that we've come to look back on.

More of tumultuous than surreal, I would say. Whatever he did, wherever he went, there was fire on. (And I loved that).

#11893 DutchCruijff

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 16:47

Of course, he he stayed at Benetton: he would have won it from 1994 to 1997; they had Renault engines so it would have been a battle with Williams, but I think Schu would win four straight. Then who knows where he would have went (likely Ferrari, though), or less likely, McLaren Mercedes with Newey. Imagine that: Schu with Newey at McLaren? Oy.

”He and I met, in Monte Carlo, quite a few years ago, specifically to discuss the possibility of his joining the team. The meeting followed an informal chat we’d had at the Log Cabin [at Suzuka],” McLaren big boss Ron Dennis said.

”Off the top of my head, I can’t remember [when it was], but I’d say 1998, 1999 or 2000.”

”Clearly, neither his ability as a driver, nor our quality as a team, was an issue. The size of his retainer wasn’t an issue, either. The issue was more what I’d call peripheral financial issues.”

Pressed exactly on what these ‘peripheral financial issues’ were, and whether he meant ‘logos on caps, which Ferrari allowed Schumacher to sell for a vast sum, but which McLaren never allow their drivers to do?’, Dennis responded, ”Yes, things like that. But I guess some things just aren’t meant to happen.”


So yes, close to joining McLaren in '98/99.

#11894 Spa95

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 16:51

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Golden moments at Ferrari, 2000.

:love:

#11895 George Costanza

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 16:55

”He and I met, in Monte Carlo, quite a few years ago, specifically to discuss the possibility of his joining the team. The meeting followed an informal chat we’d had at the Log Cabin [at Suzuka],” McLaren big boss Ron Dennis said.

”Off the top of my head, I can’t remember [when it was], but I’d say 1998, 1999 or 2000.”

”Clearly, neither his ability as a driver, nor our quality as a team, was an issue. The size of his retainer wasn’t an issue, either. The issue was more what I’d call peripheral financial issues.”

Pressed exactly on what these ‘peripheral financial issues’ were, and whether he meant ‘logos on caps, which Ferrari allowed Schumacher to sell for a vast sum, but which McLaren never allow their drivers to do?’, Dennis responded, ”Yes, things like that. But I guess some things just aren’t meant to happen.”


So yes, close to joining McLaren in '98/99.



And McLaren was right on the upswing; so even if he joined McLaren, he would have won 3 more championships or I think so.

#11896 EdwardCullen

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 17:01

”He and I met, in Monte Carlo, quite a few years ago, specifically to discuss the possibility of his joining the team. The meeting followed an informal chat we’d had at the Log Cabin [at Suzuka],” McLaren big boss Ron Dennis said.

”Off the top of my head, I can’t remember [when it was], but I’d say 1998, 1999 or 2000.”

”Clearly, neither his ability as a driver, nor our quality as a team, was an issue. The size of his retainer wasn’t an issue, either. The issue was more what I’d call peripheral financial issues.”

Pressed exactly on what these ‘peripheral financial issues’ were, and whether he meant ‘logos on caps, which Ferrari allowed Schumacher to sell for a vast sum, but which McLaren never allow their drivers to do?’, Dennis responded, ”Yes, things like that. But I guess some things just aren’t meant to happen.”


So yes, close to joining McLaren in '98/99.

here is the video of Ron Dennis trying to lure Schumacher into his team :up:

Edited by EdwardCullen, 04 August 2011 - 17:02.


#11897 DutchCruijff

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 17:16

^^^ That was in 1993. Worked with the best, the Laudas and the Sennas, but seems like Ron couldn't resist a bit of the Schumi.

Edited by DutchCruijff, 04 August 2011 - 17:17.


#11898 Poep

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 17:32

”He and I met, in Monte Carlo, quite a few years ago, specifically to discuss the possibility of his joining the team. The meeting followed an informal chat we’d had at the Log Cabin [at Suzuka],” McLaren big boss Ron Dennis said.

”Off the top of my head, I can’t remember [when it was], but I’d say 1998, 1999 or 2000.”

”Clearly, neither his ability as a driver, nor our quality as a team, was an issue. The size of his retainer wasn’t an issue, either. The issue was more what I’d call peripheral financial issues.”

Pressed exactly on what these ‘peripheral financial issues’ were, and whether he meant ‘logos on caps, which Ferrari allowed Schumacher to sell for a vast sum, but which McLaren never allow their drivers to do?’, Dennis responded, ”Yes, things like that. But I guess some things just aren’t meant to happen.”


So yes, close to joining McLaren in '98/99.

Actually that's bullshit.

Schumi himself said (in an interview in 2007 or 2008, can't remember) that he didn't want to join McLaren because of the filosophy of Ron Dennis . He didn't sence it was a team the way he idealy views it, but more a dominating Ron Dennis in charge. MS didn't like the way Ron Dennis carried out his role within the team.

I doubt Ron Dennis will ever publically say that MS didn't join them because of him.....but maybe MS didn't tell him the real reason after he got scarred of .....



#11899 DutchCruijff

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 18:31

Can't say I've heard of that POV.

Any link possible?

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#11900 Disgrace

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 18:36

here is the video of Ron Dennis trying to lure Schumacher into his team :up:


Am I only one who finds that excessively cringeworthy?