Jump to content


Photo

Michael Schumacher (merged)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
20758 replies to this topic

#11951 Macxtor

Macxtor
  • Member

  • 39 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 07 August 2011 - 22:09

SeanValen

From your post
// I think Michael has done a great job at adapting whatever he needed to do, but one of the problems he has, is qualifying set up is linked to race set up, in a unproductive way for the way he sets up his car for the race, if qualifying was separate, he could tinker with the car for the race, but he can't now, and he makes a comprimise, fast in the race, Nico gets quali right more often, and falls back, while MS moves forward. //

This is exactely what happens, Michael is faster than Rosberg in race. Rosberg is totally focusing on qualifying and then lacks in the race. This makes him "look" better than MS. I really not hope Michael Scumacher will quit in the end of 2011. He is a fantastic driver who deserves better than this CRAPPY W02.

Im sorry to say this as a Merceds fan but this team is a compelte JOKE. Cost neutral F1 program!!! The team needs money, new mindset and new staff. NOT a new driver. Michael is on the right way. First focus on race pace then make the car fast in qualifying.

I think the problem is that MGP board wants headlines more than winning the race. They are so desperate to show in qualifying and because of this they will never find a complete package. Take a look at Force India. Focus on race and then make small steps in qualifyling. Oops and they are ahead of MGP...

MGP board must change their mindset and focus on the race more than headlines and qualifying.

Edited by Macxtor, 07 August 2011 - 22:39.


Advertisement

#11952 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 07 August 2011 - 23:10

SeanValen

From your post
// I think Michael has done a great job at adapting whatever he needed to do, but one of the problems he has, is qualifying set up is linked to race set up, in a unproductive way for the way he sets up his car for the race, if qualifying was separate, he could tinker with the car for the race, but he can't now, and he makes a comprimise, fast in the race, Nico gets quali right more often, and falls back, while MS moves forward. //

This is exactely what happens, Michael is faster than Rosberg in race. Rosberg is totally focusing on qualifying and then lacks in the race. This makes him "look" better than MS. I really not hope Michael Scumacher will quit in the end of 2011. He is a fantastic driver who deserves better than this CRAPPY W02.

Im sorry to say this as a Merceds fan but this team is a compelte JOKE. Cost neutral F1 program!!! The team needs money, new mindset and new staff. NOT a new driver. Michael is on the right way. First focus on race pace then make the car fast in qualifying.

I think the problem is that MGP board wants headlines more than winning the race. They are so desperate to show in qualifying and because of this they will never find a complete package. Take a look at Force India. Focus on race and then make small steps in qualifyling. Oops and they are ahead of MGP...

MGP board must change their mindset and focus on the race more than headlines and qualifying.

Macxtor, if my recollection is correct, you will have Norbert Haug very seldom in the headlines. He believes in results on the track, not empty words; they are trying damn hard, but it is not an easy feat. I also think they do need to strengthen their engineering team, and some step were taken in that direction, despite that I am not sure who Bell is, and what he will bring to the team. Like you, I am too concerned whether they had cut resources beyond what was necessary, while neither Ferrari, McLaren or Red Bull following them; yes, drivers are least of their (current) problem.

Edited by Sakae, 07 August 2011 - 23:12.


#11953 ClockworkRacing

ClockworkRacing
  • Member

  • 316 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 07 August 2011 - 23:49

Michael hadn´t lost his edge,the thing is that with these thin front tyres he can´t forces the car to oversteer anymore,so that way he can´t get to his edge

#11954 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,975 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 08 August 2011 - 03:14

Speaking of tires, anyone else believe if Schu had the thick and fat tires on the car, he would be doing better? Even when he raced with slicks in the 1990s, they were still thicker than the current spec.

#11955 mrmusicman

mrmusicman
  • Member

  • 276 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 06:18

Question I have is therefore how many drivers in the exclusive club of best drivers of all time was tested at 42 under similar conditions, and pass the test?



I don't know and I don't understand why this question matters.

#11956 mrmusicman

mrmusicman
  • Member

  • 276 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 06:35

Could you stay out of this discussion please.

I am trying to discuss the reason why the driving style is not the same anymore. The guys here have been very helpfull on this. And then you come here and make my questions into something they are not to and tell me to give it a rest.

Please guys don't react to his post and lets foccus on the driving style of MS.

So we have EBD engine mapping, what else could it be? And how can it be fixed?


The cars, and tyres are totally different so of course his driving style is different, but that is not the reason he is slow. You are just looking for excuses. If you studied Michaels career, you would know that many of his cars handled very different. The benettons were very oversteery and snappy, while the 1996 and especially 1997 Ferrari's understeered a lot but he was still just as fast because his strength was his ability to adapt, as Prost himself said, so blaming his lack of speed on driving style is complete nonsense.

Edited by mrmusicman, 08 August 2011 - 06:43.


#11957 F1tweets

F1tweets
  • Member

  • 34 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 08:42

Schumacher admits eyeing return to retirement :

http://www.f1zone.ne...etirement/8064/

#11958 Mastah

Mastah
  • Member

  • 3,679 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 08 August 2011 - 09:31

Michael hadn´t lost his edge,the thing is that with these thin front tyres he can´t forces the car to oversteer anymore,so that way he can´t get to his edge


Explain then why he could do that in 1997 car with even thinner tyres than 2010/2011:

Posted Image

Posted Image


#11959 Frans

Frans
  • Member

  • 7,701 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:44

F1tweets, thats old news, his fans are in denail. It would be much better for mercedes at last. He is making a joke of the team. Let him damp off, and break his word again. Old man must leave f1 for the sake of mercedes.

Do not get me wringt, i like his atruggling very very much, he always makreel my personal highlights in the races, but he must keep the little credibility he still has.

In a way i really Hope he will stay Another season, just for the sake of fun, hehehe

Advertisement

#11960 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,956 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:54

Explain then why he could do that in 1997 car with even thinner tyres than 2010/2011:

Posted Image

Posted Image


1997 front tyres are the same width as 2011...

#11961 Jejking

Jejking
  • Member

  • 2,633 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:55

I'd love to see what Frans'd be doing at his 42th in what's pretty much a dog of a F1 car :lol:

I'm still wondering *and editing*, since F1zone picked the issue up... how much sites are going to follow? I really doubt the source after been shown the commitment Schumacher had at the BBC reportage. If anyone else thinks otherwise, I'm listening because I'm about to decide whether to go to Spa for only Friday or the whole weekend :)

Edited by Jejking, 08 August 2011 - 10:57.


#11962 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:59

I don't know and I don't understand why this question matters.

Within context of your post it matters because if you apply the same (your) criteria to all former F1 greats, I suspect no one would come out pure and save, failing your standard, and therefore we would have no greats.

Expectations were high on him, but all in all I think Michael is doing just fine under circumstances he is in.

#11963 mrmusicman

mrmusicman
  • Member

  • 276 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 11:22

Within context of your post it matters because if you apply the same (your) criteria to all former F1 greats, I suspect no one would come out pure and save, failing your standard, and therefore we would have no greats.

Expectations were high on him, but all in all I think Michael is doing just fine under circumstances he is in.



I agree I doubt that any driver would be great at 42.

#11964 Fortymark

Fortymark
  • Member

  • 5,810 posts
  • Joined: April 03

Posted 08 August 2011 - 11:22

Nico gets quali right more often, and falls back, while MS moves forward. //

This is exactely what happens, Michael is faster than Rosberg in race. Rosberg is totally focusing on qualifying and then lacks in the race. This makes him "look" better than MS. I really not hope Michael Scumacher will quit in the end of 2011. He is a fantastic driver who deserves better than this CRAPPY W02.


Michael is not faster than Rosberg in the races. He has been faster in a few races but since 2010,
Rosberg has been the quicker one in the majority of the races.

#11965 bill p

bill p
  • Member

  • 465 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 08 August 2011 - 12:45

I agree I doubt that any driver would be great at 42.


Fangio (Born 1911) still had 4 World Championships ('54, '55, '56 & ''57) to win when he was 42

Also, Mario Andretti (Born 1940) won the Indycar Championship when he was 44

#11966 zack1994

zack1994
  • Member

  • 2,368 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 08 August 2011 - 13:12

Fangio (Born 1911) still had 4 World Championships ('54, '55, '56 & ''57) to win when he was 42

Also, Mario Andretti (Born 1940) won the Indycar Championship when he was 44

50s and 60s are not the same as formula 1 now, the cars are tons faster and there is more g force.

#11967 Mastah

Mastah
  • Member

  • 3,679 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 08 August 2011 - 13:48

1997 front tyres are the same width as 2011...


Even then the question is still valid. I have seen top drivers equally fast with V10 and V8, with TC and LC and without it, with Michelins and grooved Bridgestones, with wide slick Bridgestones and thinner Bridgestones and finally with Pirellis. So how can anyone belive that Michael's problem is thin fronts, EBD or whatever else?


#11968 bill p

bill p
  • Member

  • 465 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 08 August 2011 - 15:08

QUOTE (mrmusicman @ Aug 8 2011, 12:22)
I agree I doubt that any driver would be great at 42.


QUOTE (bill p @ Aug 8 2011, 12:45)
Fangio (Born 1911) still had 4 World Championships ('54, '55, '56 & ''57) to win when he was 42

Also, Mario Andretti (Born 1940) won the '84 Indycar Championship when he was 44


50s and 60s are not the same as formula 1 now, the cars are tons faster and there is more g force.


So, Fangio and Andretti were not great drivers at the age of 42.........................





#11969 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • Member

  • 4,533 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 15:17

So, Fangio and Andretti were not great drivers at the age of 42.........................

They were, but the ability of the machinery back then was far less than what it is now (I know Andretti won his F1 championship at 38, but the speed of the sport has advanced a lot since the late 70's). Perhaps this isn't the best analogy, but I think it was a lot easier to be a great fighter pilot at the age of forty during the 40's-60's than it is now, too. :p

Modern-day F1 is more demanding physically in most cases than it was back in the 50's-70's, but that's probably a discussion for another topic. :)

#11970 bill p

bill p
  • Member

  • 465 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 08 August 2011 - 15:33

They were, but the ability of the machinery back then was far less than what it is now (I know Andretti won his F1 championship at 38, but the speed of the sport has advanced a lot since the late 70's). Perhaps this isn't the best analogy, but I think it was a lot easier to be a great fighter pilot at the age of forty during the 40's-60's than it is now, too. :p

Modern-day F1 is more demanding physically in most cases than it was back in the 50's-70's, but that's probably a discussion for another topic. :)


I agree entirely with you and your analogy is spot on.





#11971 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,828 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 08 August 2011 - 15:51

Fangio (Born 1911) still had 4 World Championships ('54, '55, '56 & ''57) to win when he was 42

Also, Mario Andretti (Born 1940) won the Indycar Championship when he was 44

That's extremely true but what was the average age of success in this sport back then?
how many <24 years old winners were there?
how many <20 years old guys were racing or preparing to race?
how many Gs could a car pull trough those tyres?



#11972 ClockworkRacing

ClockworkRacing
  • Member

  • 316 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 17:47

Explain then why he could do that in 1997 car with even thinner tyres than 2010/2011:

Posted Image

Posted Image

The difference is that in 1997 he wasn´t 42 years-old

Edited by ClockworkRacing, 08 August 2011 - 17:48.


#11973 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 08 August 2011 - 18:01

So, Fangio and Andretti were not great drivers at the age of 42.........................

And how many 20-25 year drivers were then in F1? I think drivers then were generally older?


#11974 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 08 August 2011 - 18:05

The difference is that in 1997 he wasn´t 42 years-old


How is age limiting him?

#11975 DS27

DS27
  • Member

  • 1,474 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 18:21

How is age limiting him?


The way it would limit any other 42 year old - only in most drivers cases they would be seconds off the pace they were capable of in their peak rather than the tenths that Michael is. Look what happened to drivers like Damon Hill as he got older, he was seconds off his team mate.

How many other sports are there (where extreme fitness and reactions are required) where a 42 year old could compete at the highest level. I think what he is doing at his age is remarkable, but lets not kid ourselves, he was already losing some speed when he retired.

I'm a huge fan and he's at top of my list of all-time drivers but to suggest he is as quick as he was does his primary career a dis-service. I would give a lot to see just one more podium before he bows out though - unfortunately a victory is too much to hope for.

As to the fact that F1 drivers used to be older, yes they did, but the levels between then and now are imcomparable. Fitness didn't matter, there were not the g-forces to cope with, nor the elctronics to master and ability to do 5 things at once and F1 was very much for the elite few. Finding the best from a talent pool of 100 drivers, doesnt give you the same standards as searching from a talent pool of tens of thousands of aspiring young drivers.

Besides, it used to be untinkable to run a 4 minute mile - things move on. It's like suggesting a 100m sprinter from the 50's could compete against Bolt

Edited by DS27, 08 August 2011 - 18:28.


#11976 Mastah

Mastah
  • Member

  • 3,679 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 08 August 2011 - 18:28

Michael hadn´t lost his edge,the thing is that with these thin front tyres he can´t forces the car to oversteer anymore,so that way he can´t get to his edge


The difference is that in 1997 he wasn´t 42 years-old


So had he lost it or not? Because it seems you also lost it.

#11977 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,420 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 08 August 2011 - 19:20

Father time waits for nobody.

Look at the great Muhammad Ali, he started slipping when he was 38 years old and look what happened to him. Lennox Lewis started slipping and called it a day (wisely). Mike Tyson lost to people who would have been considered 'bums' in his heyday.

Time stands still for nobody. The brain, impluses and neurological processes slow down and people cannot perform, maintain and execute the same standards as when they were younger.

That said, the fact that he is around the same level as a prime Nico Rosberg is testament to just how great Schumacher is even now. He might not be the fastest around but he can match (more often than not) a guy who is touted to be one of the best out there. That itself is incredible.

Schumacher reminds me of Bernard Hopkins; what he lost in terms of reflexes, he is starting to make up for with ring-smarts, experience and a wise head.

#11978 Mastah

Mastah
  • Member

  • 3,679 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 08 August 2011 - 19:48

That said, the fact that he is around the same level as a prime Nico Rosberg is testament to just how great Schumacher is even now. He might not be the fastest around but he can match (more often than not) a guy who is touted to be one of the best out there. That itself is incredible.


Joke post?

points 190 - 104
podiums 3 - 0
qualis 24 - 6
races 17 - 5

Around the same level :lol:.


#11979 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 08 August 2011 - 19:57

Around the same level :lol:.

:cat: more or less......

Advertisement

#11980 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,828 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:11

Joke post?

points 190 - 104
podiums 3 - 0
qualis 24 - 6
races 17 - 5

Around the same level :lol:.

let's go down to your level

wins 0-0
titles 0-0
poles 0-0

this is the important stuff

#11981 Macxtor

Macxtor
  • Member

  • 39 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:24

Explain then why he could do that in 1997 car with even thinner tyres than 2010/2011:

Posted Image

Posted Image


Easy to explain why he performed better in the past. More power, less grip and in this time the driver skill was the most
important in F1. 2011 F1 cars is as fast as the old cars with 2-300hp less power!!

F1 2011 30% driver 70% car.
F1 in the past: 70% driver 30% car

//Mac



#11982 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:30

This is not Michael vs Nico thread! If somebody forget that. Michael is the best. He was also the best Ferrari driver and Benetton driver. Forever. He is 42 ,BYE.

Edited by ivand911, 08 August 2011 - 20:32.


#11983 EdwardCullen

EdwardCullen
  • Member

  • 763 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:39

let's go down to your level

wins 0-0
titles 0-0
poles 0-0

this is the important stuff

powned

#11984 Secretariat

Secretariat
  • Member

  • 111 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:42

There are a couple of things that I do wonder about since his return. If his neck injury took something out of him, and if the current rules like fixed weight distribution does not allow him to maximize his talent. Of course there is always the father time argument or that Nico is just faster but I don't think that is it. I was very excited when he came back and give him that much more respect for sticking with it.

#11985 Macxtor

Macxtor
  • Member

  • 39 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 08 August 2011 - 21:11

There are a couple of things that I do wonder about since his return. If his neck injury took something out of him, and if the current rules like fixed weight distribution does not allow him to maximize his talent. Of course there is always the father time argument or that Nico is just faster but I don't think that is it. I was very excited when he came back and give him that much more respect for sticking with it.


MSC is still a king when he drives kart. The problem is the MGP team and lack of leadership. Ross and Haug cannot do this on thir own. I can feel the words "deliver some results..."

MGP without Michael Schumacher onboard will be a middleteam forever, Dont quit Michael, Go to another "real race team" and finish your career on top.

#11986 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,956 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 08 August 2011 - 21:15

Even then the question is still valid. I have seen top drivers equally fast with V10 and V8, with TC and LC and without it, with Michelins and grooved Bridgestones, with wide slick Bridgestones and thinner Bridgestones and finally with Pirellis. So how can anyone belive that Michael's problem is thin fronts, EBD or whatever else?


We don't have to question his ability to get speed out of the car, period, as has lapped in general faster than Nico in the races all year. His qualifying pace is impossible to fathom and I'm sure its only the man himself who knows the reason.



#11987 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,420 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 08 August 2011 - 22:11

Joke post?

points 190 - 104
podiums 3 - 0
qualis 24 - 6
races 17 - 5

Around the same level :lol:.


Podiums - 154 vs 3
Wins - 91 vs 0
Wdc's - 7 vs 0
Poles - 68 - 0

Would you like some more? I have a long long list........

#11988 Muz Bee

Muz Bee
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 08 August 2011 - 23:41

Podiums - 154 vs 3
Wins - 91 vs 0
Wdc's - 7 vs 0
Poles - 68 - 0

Would you like some more? I have a long long list........

Would you like to tell us something we don't already know?
Or make some kind of point about Michael?

#11989 ClockworkRacing

ClockworkRacing
  • Member

  • 316 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 09 August 2011 - 00:08

So had he lost it or not? Because it seems you also lost it.

No man he hadn´t lost it,look at the Canadian race this year;the thing is that he doesn´t have the reflexes and the same learning ablity he had 14 years ago,back in´97.
Lacking speed with 42 years had nothing to do with age,the body changes,simple as that

#11990 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,975 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 09 August 2011 - 02:32

What are Michael's 10 greatest pole laps?

Just curious on your take.

#11991 Jazza

Jazza
  • Member

  • 1,104 posts
  • Joined: November 99

Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:05

What are Michael's 10 greatest pole laps?

Just curious on your take.


Imola 95, 96, 06
Monaco 96
Suzuka 98, 99, 00, 02
Monza 00
Hockenheim 04

Didn't put Malaysia 99. Yes he came back from a broken leg, but he had tested to get back into shape, the car was miles faster than the McLaren's that race, and Irvine looked to have just lost it from the championship pressure (Yet still qualified second).

#11992 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,975 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:34

Good list; I would put Monza 1998 as well; he did a great lap to surpass the McLarens.

Edited by George Costanza, 09 August 2011 - 04:43.


#11993 EdwardCullen

EdwardCullen
  • Member

  • 763 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 09 August 2011 - 05:38

1997 canada

#11994 Mastah

Mastah
  • Member

  • 3,679 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 09 August 2011 - 05:58

let's go down to your level

wins 0-0
titles 0-0
poles 0-0

this is the important stuff


Posted Image

Just because both HRT drivers didn't score a point, it doesn't mean that one driver (Tonio) wasn't much better than the second one (Narain). As far as I know Merc car isn't up to poles, wins and titles (at least with current line-up, real top driver could change that), so according to you drivers are at the same level :lol:? Way to go to deceive reality and not look at bare facts and stats.

Podiums - 154 vs 3
Wins - 91 vs 0
Wdc's - 7 vs 0
Poles - 68 - 0

Would you like some more? I have a long long list........


You are playing stupid or what? You wrote that Michael is around the same level as Nico, which is absolute nonsense to everyone except Schumi die hard fans maybe, who can't accept things as they are. We are not talking about the past, we are talking about the present, 2010 and 2011.

No man he hadn´t lost it,look at the Canadian race this year;the thing is that he doesn´t have the reflexes and the same learning ablity he had 14 years ago,back in´97.
Lacking speed with 42 years had nothing to do with age,the body changes,simple as that


What? Body changes with age, so age has everything with that, unless you learned some different biology to what I know. You say he hadn't lost the edge, but his reflexes, learning ability and speed are not the same as they were. That is a contradiction.

Edited by Mastah, 09 August 2011 - 14:14.


#11995 Secretariat

Secretariat
  • Member

  • 111 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 09 August 2011 - 12:35

Schumacher Eyes Return to Retirement

According to the story, it might make way for DiResta. It would be nice for DiResta but a shame if Schumacher does not finish out.

#11996 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,828 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 09 August 2011 - 12:49

it's the same article basically

#11997 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,420 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 09 August 2011 - 13:07

Schumacher Eyes Return to Retirement

According to the story, it might make way for DiResta. It would be nice for DiResta but a shame if Schumacher does not finish out.



He has probably realised that Honda/BAR are going nowhere fast. I won't be suprised if Nico defects too.

#11998 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,420 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 09 August 2011 - 13:08

Posted Image

Just because both HRT drivers didn't score a point, it doesn't mean that one driver (Tonio) was much better than the second one (Narain). As far as I know Merc car isn't up to poles, wins and titles (at least with current line-up, real top driver could change that), so according to you drivers are at the same level :lol:? Way to go to deceive reality and not look at bare facts and stats.



You are playing stupid or what? You wrote that Michael is around the same level as Nico, which is absolute nonsense to everyone except Schumi die hard fans maybe, who can't accept things as they are. We are not talking about the past, we are talking about the present, 2010 and 2011.



What? Body changes with age, so age has everything with that, unless you learned some different biology to what I know. You say he hadn't lost the edge, but his reflexes, learning ability and speed are not the same as they were. That is a contradiction.


So why diminish and berate Schumacher's past achievements if we're only focusing on 2010-?


#11999 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 09 August 2011 - 13:59

The way it would limit any other 42 year old - only in most drivers cases they would be seconds off the pace they were capable of in their peak rather than the tenths that Michael is. Look what happened to drivers like Damon Hill as he got older, he was seconds off his team mate.

How many other sports are there (where extreme fitness and reactions are required) where a 42 year old could compete at the highest level. I think what he is doing at his age is remarkable, but lets not kid ourselves, he was already losing some speed when he retired.

I'm a huge fan and he's at top of my list of all-time drivers but to suggest he is as quick as he was does his primary career a dis-service. I would give a lot to see just one more podium before he bows out though - unfortunately a victory is too much to hope for.

As to the fact that F1 drivers used to be older, yes they did, but the levels between then and now are imcomparable. Fitness didn't matter, there were not the g-forces to cope with, nor the elctronics to master and ability to do 5 things at once and F1 was very much for the elite few. Finding the best from a talent pool of 100 drivers, doesnt give you the same standards as searching from a talent pool of tens of thousands of aspiring young drivers.

Besides, it used to be untinkable to run a 4 minute mile - things move on. It's like suggesting a 100m sprinter from the 50's could compete against Bolt

We are being told that Michael might not be fit to play 90 min football match during World Cup, but he is matching in fitness any F1 driver on the grid, thus that's non-issue. In terms of reaction - that hasn't slowed him down either; he was tested, and we can seen him on the track once lights go off.

Age is non-issue as long as he gets rest between races.

His problems are elsewhere (and I do not pretend to know them); some offered as potential culprits are vehicle balance or absence of it, lack of vehicle speed, functionality - where is DCR when you need it, car stability in turns (he slides), brake/accelerator coordination (his old style v. what is allowed now),... I wish I could talk to him for an hour. :D

Edited by Sakae, 09 August 2011 - 14:01.


Advertisement

#12000 spa08

spa08
  • Member

  • 615 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 09 August 2011 - 14:14

We are being told that Michael might not be fit to play 90 min football match during World Cup, but he is matching in fitness any F1 driver on the grid, thus that's non-issue. In terms of reaction - that hasn't slowed him down either; he was tested, and we can seen him on the track once lights go off.

Age is non-issue as long as he gets rest between races.

His problems are elsewhere (and I do not pretend to know them); some offered as potential culprits are vehicle balance or absence of it, lack of vehicle speed, functionality - where is DCR when you need it, car stability in turns (he slides), brake/accelerator coordination (his old style v. what is allowed now),... I wish I could talk to him for an hour. :D


Maybe he as no problem and nico is just plain better than him?