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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#12001 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 13:08

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Just because both HRT drivers didn't score a point, it doesn't mean that one driver (Tonio) was much better than the second one (Narain). As far as I know Merc car isn't up to poles, wins and titles (at least with current line-up, real top driver could change that), so according to you drivers are at the same level :lol:? Way to go to deceive reality and not look at bare facts and stats.



You are playing stupid or what? You wrote that Michael is around the same level as Nico, which is absolute nonsense to everyone except Schumi die hard fans maybe, who can't accept things as they are. We are not talking about the past, we are talking about the present, 2010 and 2011.



What? Body changes with age, so age has everything with that, unless you learned some different biology to what I know. You say he hadn't lost the edge, but his reflexes, learning ability and speed are not the same as they were. That is a contradiction.


So why diminish and berate Schumacher's past achievements if we're only focusing on 2010-?


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#12002 Sakae

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 13:59

The way it would limit any other 42 year old - only in most drivers cases they would be seconds off the pace they were capable of in their peak rather than the tenths that Michael is. Look what happened to drivers like Damon Hill as he got older, he was seconds off his team mate.

How many other sports are there (where extreme fitness and reactions are required) where a 42 year old could compete at the highest level. I think what he is doing at his age is remarkable, but lets not kid ourselves, he was already losing some speed when he retired.

I'm a huge fan and he's at top of my list of all-time drivers but to suggest he is as quick as he was does his primary career a dis-service. I would give a lot to see just one more podium before he bows out though - unfortunately a victory is too much to hope for.

As to the fact that F1 drivers used to be older, yes they did, but the levels between then and now are imcomparable. Fitness didn't matter, there were not the g-forces to cope with, nor the elctronics to master and ability to do 5 things at once and F1 was very much for the elite few. Finding the best from a talent pool of 100 drivers, doesnt give you the same standards as searching from a talent pool of tens of thousands of aspiring young drivers.

Besides, it used to be untinkable to run a 4 minute mile - things move on. It's like suggesting a 100m sprinter from the 50's could compete against Bolt

We are being told that Michael might not be fit to play 90 min football match during World Cup, but he is matching in fitness any F1 driver on the grid, thus that's non-issue. In terms of reaction - that hasn't slowed him down either; he was tested, and we can seen him on the track once lights go off.

Age is non-issue as long as he gets rest between races.

His problems are elsewhere (and I do not pretend to know them); some offered as potential culprits are vehicle balance or absence of it, lack of vehicle speed, functionality - where is DCR when you need it, car stability in turns (he slides), brake/accelerator coordination (his old style v. what is allowed now),... I wish I could talk to him for an hour. :D

Edited by Sakae, 09 August 2011 - 14:01.


#12003 spa08

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 14:14

We are being told that Michael might not be fit to play 90 min football match during World Cup, but he is matching in fitness any F1 driver on the grid, thus that's non-issue. In terms of reaction - that hasn't slowed him down either; he was tested, and we can seen him on the track once lights go off.

Age is non-issue as long as he gets rest between races.

His problems are elsewhere (and I do not pretend to know them); some offered as potential culprits are vehicle balance or absence of it, lack of vehicle speed, functionality - where is DCR when you need it, car stability in turns (he slides), brake/accelerator coordination (his old style v. what is allowed now),... I wish I could talk to him for an hour. :D


Maybe he as no problem and nico is just plain better than him?

#12004 fieraku

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 14:41

F1tweets, thats old news, his fans are in denail. It would be much better for mercedes at last. He is making a joke of the team. Let him damp off, and break his word again. Old man must leave f1 for the sake of mercedes.

Do not get me wringt, i like his atruggling very very much, he always makreel my personal highlights in the races, but he must keep the little credibility he still has.

In a way i really Hope he will stay Another season, just for the sake of fun, hehehe


If someone read this without having watched any of the season,he'd think Nico has won 5 races and is leading the standings.

#12005 Sakae

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 14:44

Maybe he as no problem and nico is just plain better than him?

I am afraid that I do not understand what "plain better" really means in F1.

#12006 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:02

You would expect the better driver to have to have the best finish position this season.

Or consider that Michael had two more retirements. And a lot more trouble with Kers/Drs.

Edited by Diablobb81, 09 August 2011 - 15:02.


#12007 Mastah

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:07

So why diminish and berate Schumacher's past achievements if we're only focusing on 2010-?


You made a ridiculous claim about Schumi at "around the same level as a prime Nico" (it's as true as saying Felipe is around the same level as Fred), then after I posted their stats as teammates, which give a clear advantage to Nico, you conveniently posted careers' achievements, completely irrelevant to the subject. Then when I pointed it out, you are asking me this question, while I didn't say a thing about Michael's first career :confused:?

#12008 Johnrambo

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:12

Podiums - 154 vs 3
Wins - 91 vs 0
Wdc's - 7 vs 0
Poles - 68 - 0

Would you like some more? I have a long long list........


This makes MS look all that worse. He is being beaten now by a driver who has achieved next to nothing during his career.

#12009 EdwardCullen

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:29

This makes MS look all that worse. He is being beaten now by a driver who has achieved next to nothing during his career.

after 3 yrs break, at 41, around 12 yrs past his prime! and equalled by a 25 yrs old hot shot on his prime! nothing to be ashamed off :)

Edited by EdwardCullen, 09 August 2011 - 15:32.


#12010 Scotracer

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:40

Y'know, those replying to these posts are just digging a bigger hole.

Michael has disappointed. There's no way around it.



#12011 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:03

Michael has disappointed.


It ain't over till...

#12012 Afterburner

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:08

It ain't over till...

Precisely.

#12013 Augurk

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:19

It ain't over till...

But who is the fat lady??

#12014 as65p

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:26

Whatever happens in the future, neither the recent mediocre past nor the glorious distant past will go away, it's now ALL part of Schumachers career.

#12015 Scotracer

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:42

It ain't over till...


I think he's going to have to do a whole lot before we can say that the first 18 months of his comeback are meaningless.



#12016 razno

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 17:34

But who is the fat lady??


It ain't over till Norbert Haug sing?

:rotfl:

#12017 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 17:48

But who is the fat lady??


The Merc with a longer wheelbase ? :p

#12018 Sakae

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 17:49

This makes MS look all that worse. He is being beaten now by a driver who has achieved next to nothing during his career.



I wish it would be as straight forward conclusion as you are implying it is.

#12019 George Costanza

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 17:51

This makes MS look all that worse. He is being beaten now by a driver who has achieved next to nothing during his career.



He still is the greatest Ferrari driver of all time.... and overall, IMO. Let's see if Alonso can win 5 championships for Ferrari....

this is just a mere footnote.

Edited by George Costanza, 09 August 2011 - 17:51.


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#12020 zelpre

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 19:16

http://www.corriered...

Corriere dello Sport has deleted that article! It doesn't exist anymore!

What does that mean?

#12021 puxanando

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:14

He still is the greatest Ferrari driver of all time....

:cat: ......and you know why or not??

Schumi is 'overrated' from his fans.....my thought!

#12022 FlashMaster

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:16

:cat: ......and you know why or not??

Schumi is 'overrated' from his fans.....my thought!


And who is the greatest "Ferrari driver" in your eyes? Alfred Alfonso?

Edited by FlashMaster, 09 August 2011 - 20:17.


#12023 puxanando

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:17

Alfred Alfonso?

:p No exist any driver with THIS name!

Let us wait the next 5-7 years!

#12024 lewymp4

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:22

He still is the greatest Ferrari driver of all time.... and overall, IMO. Let's see if Alonso can win 5 championships for Ferrari....

this is just a mere footnote.


I believe that it will be hard for Fernando to win 5 championsips for Ferrari, because he doesn't have the structure of a Brawn, Todt and Byrne to call on.

Michael really only had Mika to contend with, and when Hakkinen retired their was Fernando, but for Fernando now he has to deal with both Lewis and Sebastian.


#12025 fieraku

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:49

:cat: ......and you know why or not??

Schumi is 'overrated' from his fans.....my thought!


I guess you never seen young Schumacher race,or seen how good he really was when he didn't have the best car. And I was never his fan,but boy was he good.
Schumi had it all as a driver,a complete package. He's 43 now and still performing,the Canada race was a glimpse of what he can actually do still at 43 years young.
He's one of the greatest athletes (not just drivers) of all time,and you say he's overrated?

The man is a living LEGEND!

#12026 puxanando

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 21:15

The man is a living LEGEND!

:yawnface: ......but 'overrated'!

#12027 fieraku

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 21:43

:yawnface: ......but 'overrated'!

Compared to who?About what?In what regard? You give no explanation,just your opinion.
If you just base it in these two years,it's the same as saying Michael Jordan was overrated due to his performance playing for the Washington Wizards.



#12028 Johnrambo

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 21:52

this is just a mere footnote.


What really is relevant is what's happening now. Past glories are past, this is not a nostalgia forum. His fall from greatness has been shocking if expected.

Edited by Johnrambo, 09 August 2011 - 21:52.


#12029 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 22:30

Whatever happens in the future, neither the recent mediocre past nor the glorious distant past will go away, it's now ALL part of Schumachers career.

That´s the problem,the 7 time world-champion now has in his curriculum being beaten by Nico Rosberg :down:

Edited by ClockworkRacing, 09 August 2011 - 22:30.


#12030 zack1994

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 22:38

after 3 yrs break, at 41, around 12 yrs past his prime! and equalled by a 25 yrs old hot shot on his prime! nothing to be ashamed off :)

Exactly my point.


#12031 zack1994

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 22:42

That´s the problem,the 7 time world-champion now has in his curriculum being beaten by Nico Rosberg :down:

He does, but he's not the same driver he was, this doesnt hurt the legend as it is not the legend of 1991 to 2006.
It is the 42 year old driver who had a 3 year break and is knowhere near his prime that gets beat by rosberg.

#12032 schuey100

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 23:29

His fall from greatness has been shocking if expected.


I don't know, can something be shocking and yet at the same time expected?

If Kostya Tszyu came back to boxing now he would lose, a LOT, it would be expected and certainly not shocking. However in now way would I think his record is in any way diminished, he was a beast of a fighter, one of the greatest. It's the nature of sport, you get old, you get beaten.

Is Tiger Woods suddenly the worst golfer ever? Or perhaps the 31 people that came ahead of him last week are better than he ever was?

Michael was great, the only question is whether he still has the ability to beat the young guns, I personally think he has, I think with the right equipment he could certainly surprise a few people. But sure, others may disagree and say he's washed up, fair enough, but to suggest that he's a bad driver, overated, worse than Rosberg (even in his prime) that's just silly. So to those that say these things, I do question your mental health!!

#12033 arknor

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 01:48

i'd be worried if nico showed faster laptimes in the races but recently he hasnt its not the laptimes that get remembered though its the end result.

#12034 Spa95

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 04:53

http://www.corriered...

Corriere dello Sport has deleted that article! It doesn't exist anymore!

What does that mean?


http://www.bild.de/s...10050.bild.html

Sabine Kehm: "Since his comeback to Formula 1, Michael has never spoken to anyone from Corriere dello Sport."



#12035 BRK

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 05:20

Alot of people have lost perspective, 42 years old and a few tenths off the pace, it really isn't as bad as some people are making it out to be. He has achieved everything a driver can and will always be one of the F1 legends, nothing can change that.


This. Perspective is lacking around here, though when another star driver from the current grid makes his way back at 40+ and is multiple seconds off the pace I will still be here laughing my ass off. :up:

#12036 seahawk

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 07:03

It is not even a few thenth, it has become less and Rosberg was once considered to be a possible challenger for Lewis Hamiltonm if given a top car.

#12037 zelpre

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 07:50

http://www.bild.de/s...10050.bild.html

Sabine Kehm: "Since his comeback to Formula 1, Michael has never spoken to anyone from Corriere dello Sport."



OH THANKS GOD :D

#12038 AirWebber

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 07:57

http://www.bild.de/s...10050.bild.html

Sabine Kehm: "Since his comeback to Formula 1, Michael has never spoken to anyone from Corriere dello Sport."

A lot of famous people said the same about "News of the World". :wave:

#12039 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 08:16

I don't know, can something be shocking and yet at the same time expected?

If Kostya Tszyu came back to boxing now he would lose, a LOT, it would be expected and certainly not shocking. However in now way would I think his record is in any way diminished, he was a beast of a fighter, one of the greatest. It's the nature of sport, you get old, you get beaten.

Is Tiger Woods suddenly the worst golfer ever? Or perhaps the 31 people that came ahead of him last week are better than he ever was?

Michael was great, the only question is whether he still has the ability to beat the young guns, I personally think he has, I think with the right equipment he could certainly surprise a few people. But sure, others may disagree and say he's washed up, fair enough, but to suggest that he's a bad driver, overated, worse than Rosberg (even in his prime) that's just silly. So to those that say these things, I do question your mental health!!


I'm sorry but your boxing comparisons don't wash at all, my belief is Michael is fully up to speed and just isn't the force he was when the competition wasn't as strong. If Alonso had have been in the ferraris of 05-06 he would have won those titles too

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#12040 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 08:24

He does, but he's not the same driver he was, this doesnt hurt the legend as it is not the legend of 1991 to 2006.
It is the 42 year old driver who had a 3 year break and is knowhere near his prime that gets beat by rosberg.


If Michael isn't fully upto speed as a driver after 2 years in the game then surely his ability must be questioned. I doubt Michael as lost much pace if any, that is just a convenient excuse to the fanboys who thought he would blow nico away. Can't you guys comprehend that maybe nico is that bit faster than Michael as ever been?

#12041 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 08:49

I'm sorry but your boxing comparisons don't wash at all, my belief is Michael is fully up to speed and just isn't the force he was when the competition wasn't as strong. If Alonso had have been in the ferraris of 05-06 he would have won those titles too

in ferrari 05 ?
that's bellow laughable.


#12042 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 09:22

If Michael isn't fully upto speed as a driver after 2 years in the game then surely his ability must be questioned. I doubt Michael as lost much pace if any, that is just a convenient excuse to the fanboys who thought he would blow nico away. Can't you guys comprehend that maybe nico is that bit faster than Michael as ever been?


No because it ignores many other factors. You're just using it as an excuse to prop up a weak argument.

Schumacher is not the same as he was when he was in his prime. Even the detractors - and there are many - will say he isn't the same force.

To say that Schumacher is as fast now as he was in his prime and Nico still would have blown him away is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time on here.

#12043 Wi000

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 09:26

http://www.bild.de/s...10050.bild.html

Sabine Kehm: "Since his comeback to Formula 1, Michael has never spoken to anyone from Corriere dello Sport."

Thanks :up:
Liked this quote:
"Jemand, der demnächst sein 20-jähriges Jubiläum in der Formel 1 feiert, weiß, dass Beharrlichkeit viel ausmachen kann."

Someone like him who is to celebrate his 20 years in F1 soon, knows how persistence can make a difference.

Hope they have something nice planned for him to celebrate this occasion.

#12044 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 11:33

No because it ignores many other factors. You're just using it as an excuse to prop up a weak argument.

Schumacher is not the same as he was when he was in his prime. Even the detractors - and there are many - will say he isn't the same force.

To say that Schumacher is as fast now as he was in his prime and Nico still would have blown him away is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time on here.


Barrichello is near enough the same age as Schumacher and has been an average racer throughout his career, he hasn't lost his speed with age as he beat hulkenberg lastyear and is beating maldanado this year, so I'm not buying the age excuse. As for the new regulations since his layoff excuse, I'm not having that either as the 2010 tyres were different from 09 so they both started off on a level playing field just have they have this year. I believe that if the likes of Hamilton, Alonso and rosberg etc were in the samecars as Michael they would win as many as him if not more throughout his career

Edited by spa08, 10 August 2011 - 11:38.


#12045 GerhardBerger

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 11:44

Barrichello is near enough the same age as Schumacher and has been an average racer throughout his career, he hasn't lost his speed with age as he beat hulkenberg lastyear and is beating maldanado this year, so I'm not buying the age excuse. As for the new regulations since his layoff excuse, I'm not having that either as the 2010 tyres were different from 09 so they both started off on a level playing field just have they have this year. I believe that if the likes of Hamilton, Alonso and rosberg etc were in the samecars as Michael they would win as many as him if not more throughout his career


We don't know how good Hulkeburg/Maldonando are. They havn't raced against any other teammate. Eitherway, i don't think Barrichello is as good as he was at his peak. Drivers lose their speed with age - that is why they tend to retire when they reach their late 30s and early 40s.

#12046 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 11:53

We don't know how good Hulkeburg/Maldonando are. They havn't raced against any other teammate. Eitherway, i don't think Barrichello is as good as he was at his peak. Drivers lose their speed with age - that is why they tend to retire when they reach their late 30s and early 40s.


I believe they retire because they lose their commitment not their speed, they both are good drivers as they are gp2 champions. Can't you possibly accept there is a chance that rosberg is the better driver?

#12047 CodeRacing

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 12:01

One thing I'll respect about Shumacher was that he was rarely the kind of driver who just did mathematical calculations in his head and sit behind other cars because he didn't want to risk having a go. For as many times he won the championship he was still willing to fight on the track for it. I think a years like 2000/2003/2006 displayed the kind of competitiveness he had.

That's what I want to see in a driver and Shumacher had that in spades.

#12048 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 12:06

Barrichello is near enough the same age as Schumacher and has been an average racer throughout his career, he hasn't lost his speed with age as he beat hulkenberg lastyear and is beating maldanado this year, so I'm not buying the age excuse. As for the new regulations since his layoff excuse, I'm not having that either as the 2010 tyres were different from 09 so they both started off on a level playing field just have they have this year. I believe that if the likes of Hamilton, Alonso and rosberg etc were in the samecars as Michael they would win as many as him if not more throughout his career


Barrichello didn't take 3 years out of the sport. Some may argue Barrichello didn't have that much speed to lose anyway. (Probably unfair, but he does strike me as another JB, needing a perfect car to perform and whining uncontrollably when he doesn't get it).

Anyone who uses a name relating to what some (deluded and not knowing the regs) regard as a ridiculous race penalty, appears frequently on McLaren pages, and is known for outrageous comments is also less than likely to be fair towards MS and/or Ferrari. To say that others drivers could repeat or better what MS did for Ferrari is just another effort to belittle his achievements. It's possible they could, it's also possible the MS from 97-98 would blast everyone given a RB from today.........

The current Merc is acknowledged to need vastly varied qualifying & race set ups... The philosophy of each driver seems set right now, NR goes for qualy pace and often goes backwards in the race, MS qualies poorly by comparison but is often faster in the race. This method though is costing him when he gets involved in midfield battles often necessitating pitstops - for this alone MS is letting himself down -. However, if he continues as he has done, I expect him to keep the pressure on NR throughout the season and hope for a more neutral car next year allowing a better qualy/race pace general set up.

#12049 Tarzaan

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 12:26

Schumacher Eyes Return to Retirement

According to the story, it might make way for DiResta. It would be nice for DiResta but a shame if Schumacher does not finish out.



di Resta?

lol

Sutil has more than twice points than him.

Imho I don't think MS will retire in the end of this season and Merc would be fool is they bring di Resta to his place...



#12050 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 12:27

Barrichello didn't take 3 years out of the sport. Some may argue Barrichello didn't have that much speed to lose anyway. (Probably unfair, but he does strike me as another JB, needing a perfect car to perform and whining uncontrollably when he doesn't get it).

Anyone who uses a name relating to what some (deluded and not knowing the regs) regard as a ridiculous race penalty, appears frequently on McLaren pages, and is known for outrageous comments is also less than likely to be fair towards MS and/or Ferrari. To say that others drivers could repeat or better what MS did for Ferrari is just another effort to belittle his achievements. It's possible they could, it's also possible the MS from 97-98 would blast everyone given a RB from today.........

The current Merc is acknowledged to need vastly varied qualifying & race set ups... The philosophy of each driver seems set right now, NR goes for qualy pace and often goes backwards in the race, MS qualies poorly by comparison but is often faster in the race. This method though is costing him when he gets involved in midfield battles often necessitating pitstops - for this alone MS is letting himself down -. However, if he continues as he has done, I expect him to keep the pressure on NR throughout the season and hope for a more neutral car next year allowing a better qualy/race pace general set up.


Like I said the regulations and tyres were new for every driver in 2010, schumacer had plenty of preparation for his return so he was far from rusty, even less so this year. Another point barrichello is an average driver whereas Michael is the so called greatest of all time. And what makes you think my name makes me dislike Schumacher??? I like Michael but I'm afraid he's ran out of excuses