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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#12001 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:11

Joke post?

points 190 - 104
podiums 3 - 0
qualis 24 - 6
races 17 - 5

Around the same level :lol:.

let's go down to your level

wins 0-0
titles 0-0
poles 0-0

this is the important stuff

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#12002 Macxtor

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:24

Explain then why he could do that in 1997 car with even thinner tyres than 2010/2011:

Posted Image

Posted Image


Easy to explain why he performed better in the past. More power, less grip and in this time the driver skill was the most
important in F1. 2011 F1 cars is as fast as the old cars with 2-300hp less power!!

F1 2011 30% driver 70% car.
F1 in the past: 70% driver 30% car

//Mac



#12003 ivand911

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:30

This is not Michael vs Nico thread! If somebody forget that. Michael is the best. He was also the best Ferrari driver and Benetton driver. Forever. He is 42 ,BYE.

Edited by ivand911, 08 August 2011 - 20:32.


#12004 EdwardCullen

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:39

let's go down to your level

wins 0-0
titles 0-0
poles 0-0

this is the important stuff

powned

#12005 Secretariat

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 20:42

There are a couple of things that I do wonder about since his return. If his neck injury took something out of him, and if the current rules like fixed weight distribution does not allow him to maximize his talent. Of course there is always the father time argument or that Nico is just faster but I don't think that is it. I was very excited when he came back and give him that much more respect for sticking with it.

#12006 Macxtor

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 21:11

There are a couple of things that I do wonder about since his return. If his neck injury took something out of him, and if the current rules like fixed weight distribution does not allow him to maximize his talent. Of course there is always the father time argument or that Nico is just faster but I don't think that is it. I was very excited when he came back and give him that much more respect for sticking with it.


MSC is still a king when he drives kart. The problem is the MGP team and lack of leadership. Ross and Haug cannot do this on thir own. I can feel the words "deliver some results..."

MGP without Michael Schumacher onboard will be a middleteam forever, Dont quit Michael, Go to another "real race team" and finish your career on top.

#12007 Scotracer

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 21:15

Even then the question is still valid. I have seen top drivers equally fast with V10 and V8, with TC and LC and without it, with Michelins and grooved Bridgestones, with wide slick Bridgestones and thinner Bridgestones and finally with Pirellis. So how can anyone belive that Michael's problem is thin fronts, EBD or whatever else?


We don't have to question his ability to get speed out of the car, period, as has lapped in general faster than Nico in the races all year. His qualifying pace is impossible to fathom and I'm sure its only the man himself who knows the reason.



#12008 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 22:11

Joke post?

points 190 - 104
podiums 3 - 0
qualis 24 - 6
races 17 - 5

Around the same level :lol:.


Podiums - 154 vs 3
Wins - 91 vs 0
Wdc's - 7 vs 0
Poles - 68 - 0

Would you like some more? I have a long long list........

#12009 Muz Bee

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 23:41

Podiums - 154 vs 3
Wins - 91 vs 0
Wdc's - 7 vs 0
Poles - 68 - 0

Would you like some more? I have a long long list........

Would you like to tell us something we don't already know?
Or make some kind of point about Michael?

#12010 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 00:08

So had he lost it or not? Because it seems you also lost it.

No man he hadn´t lost it,look at the Canadian race this year;the thing is that he doesn´t have the reflexes and the same learning ablity he had 14 years ago,back in´97.
Lacking speed with 42 years had nothing to do with age,the body changes,simple as that

#12011 George Costanza

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 02:32

What are Michael's 10 greatest pole laps?

Just curious on your take.

#12012 Jazza

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:05

What are Michael's 10 greatest pole laps?

Just curious on your take.


Imola 95, 96, 06
Monaco 96
Suzuka 98, 99, 00, 02
Monza 00
Hockenheim 04

Didn't put Malaysia 99. Yes he came back from a broken leg, but he had tested to get back into shape, the car was miles faster than the McLaren's that race, and Irvine looked to have just lost it from the championship pressure (Yet still qualified second).

#12013 George Costanza

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:34

Good list; I would put Monza 1998 as well; he did a great lap to surpass the McLarens.

Edited by George Costanza, 09 August 2011 - 04:43.


#12014 EdwardCullen

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 05:38

1997 canada

#12015 Mastah

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 05:58

let's go down to your level

wins 0-0
titles 0-0
poles 0-0

this is the important stuff


Posted Image

Just because both HRT drivers didn't score a point, it doesn't mean that one driver (Tonio) wasn't much better than the second one (Narain). As far as I know Merc car isn't up to poles, wins and titles (at least with current line-up, real top driver could change that), so according to you drivers are at the same level :lol:? Way to go to deceive reality and not look at bare facts and stats.

Podiums - 154 vs 3
Wins - 91 vs 0
Wdc's - 7 vs 0
Poles - 68 - 0

Would you like some more? I have a long long list........


You are playing stupid or what? You wrote that Michael is around the same level as Nico, which is absolute nonsense to everyone except Schumi die hard fans maybe, who can't accept things as they are. We are not talking about the past, we are talking about the present, 2010 and 2011.

No man he hadn´t lost it,look at the Canadian race this year;the thing is that he doesn´t have the reflexes and the same learning ablity he had 14 years ago,back in´97.
Lacking speed with 42 years had nothing to do with age,the body changes,simple as that


What? Body changes with age, so age has everything with that, unless you learned some different biology to what I know. You say he hadn't lost the edge, but his reflexes, learning ability and speed are not the same as they were. That is a contradiction.

Edited by Mastah, 09 August 2011 - 14:14.


#12016 Secretariat

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 12:35

Schumacher Eyes Return to Retirement

According to the story, it might make way for DiResta. It would be nice for DiResta but a shame if Schumacher does not finish out.

#12017 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 12:49

it's the same article basically

#12018 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 13:07

Schumacher Eyes Return to Retirement

According to the story, it might make way for DiResta. It would be nice for DiResta but a shame if Schumacher does not finish out.



He has probably realised that Honda/BAR are going nowhere fast. I won't be suprised if Nico defects too.

#12019 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 13:08

Posted Image

Just because both HRT drivers didn't score a point, it doesn't mean that one driver (Tonio) was much better than the second one (Narain). As far as I know Merc car isn't up to poles, wins and titles (at least with current line-up, real top driver could change that), so according to you drivers are at the same level :lol:? Way to go to deceive reality and not look at bare facts and stats.



You are playing stupid or what? You wrote that Michael is around the same level as Nico, which is absolute nonsense to everyone except Schumi die hard fans maybe, who can't accept things as they are. We are not talking about the past, we are talking about the present, 2010 and 2011.



What? Body changes with age, so age has everything with that, unless you learned some different biology to what I know. You say he hadn't lost the edge, but his reflexes, learning ability and speed are not the same as they were. That is a contradiction.


So why diminish and berate Schumacher's past achievements if we're only focusing on 2010-?


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#12020 Sakae

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 13:59

The way it would limit any other 42 year old - only in most drivers cases they would be seconds off the pace they were capable of in their peak rather than the tenths that Michael is. Look what happened to drivers like Damon Hill as he got older, he was seconds off his team mate.

How many other sports are there (where extreme fitness and reactions are required) where a 42 year old could compete at the highest level. I think what he is doing at his age is remarkable, but lets not kid ourselves, he was already losing some speed when he retired.

I'm a huge fan and he's at top of my list of all-time drivers but to suggest he is as quick as he was does his primary career a dis-service. I would give a lot to see just one more podium before he bows out though - unfortunately a victory is too much to hope for.

As to the fact that F1 drivers used to be older, yes they did, but the levels between then and now are imcomparable. Fitness didn't matter, there were not the g-forces to cope with, nor the elctronics to master and ability to do 5 things at once and F1 was very much for the elite few. Finding the best from a talent pool of 100 drivers, doesnt give you the same standards as searching from a talent pool of tens of thousands of aspiring young drivers.

Besides, it used to be untinkable to run a 4 minute mile - things move on. It's like suggesting a 100m sprinter from the 50's could compete against Bolt

We are being told that Michael might not be fit to play 90 min football match during World Cup, but he is matching in fitness any F1 driver on the grid, thus that's non-issue. In terms of reaction - that hasn't slowed him down either; he was tested, and we can seen him on the track once lights go off.

Age is non-issue as long as he gets rest between races.

His problems are elsewhere (and I do not pretend to know them); some offered as potential culprits are vehicle balance or absence of it, lack of vehicle speed, functionality - where is DCR when you need it, car stability in turns (he slides), brake/accelerator coordination (his old style v. what is allowed now),... I wish I could talk to him for an hour. :D

Edited by Sakae, 09 August 2011 - 14:01.


#12021 spa08

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 14:14

We are being told that Michael might not be fit to play 90 min football match during World Cup, but he is matching in fitness any F1 driver on the grid, thus that's non-issue. In terms of reaction - that hasn't slowed him down either; he was tested, and we can seen him on the track once lights go off.

Age is non-issue as long as he gets rest between races.

His problems are elsewhere (and I do not pretend to know them); some offered as potential culprits are vehicle balance or absence of it, lack of vehicle speed, functionality - where is DCR when you need it, car stability in turns (he slides), brake/accelerator coordination (his old style v. what is allowed now),... I wish I could talk to him for an hour. :D


Maybe he as no problem and nico is just plain better than him?

#12022 fieraku

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 14:41

F1tweets, thats old news, his fans are in denail. It would be much better for mercedes at last. He is making a joke of the team. Let him damp off, and break his word again. Old man must leave f1 for the sake of mercedes.

Do not get me wringt, i like his atruggling very very much, he always makreel my personal highlights in the races, but he must keep the little credibility he still has.

In a way i really Hope he will stay Another season, just for the sake of fun, hehehe


If someone read this without having watched any of the season,he'd think Nico has won 5 races and is leading the standings.

#12023 Sakae

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 14:44

Maybe he as no problem and nico is just plain better than him?

I am afraid that I do not understand what "plain better" really means in F1.

#12024 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:02

You would expect the better driver to have to have the best finish position this season.

Or consider that Michael had two more retirements. And a lot more trouble with Kers/Drs.

Edited by Diablobb81, 09 August 2011 - 15:02.


#12025 Mastah

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:07

So why diminish and berate Schumacher's past achievements if we're only focusing on 2010-?


You made a ridiculous claim about Schumi at "around the same level as a prime Nico" (it's as true as saying Felipe is around the same level as Fred), then after I posted their stats as teammates, which give a clear advantage to Nico, you conveniently posted careers' achievements, completely irrelevant to the subject. Then when I pointed it out, you are asking me this question, while I didn't say a thing about Michael's first career :confused:?

#12026 Johnrambo

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:12

Podiums - 154 vs 3
Wins - 91 vs 0
Wdc's - 7 vs 0
Poles - 68 - 0

Would you like some more? I have a long long list........


This makes MS look all that worse. He is being beaten now by a driver who has achieved next to nothing during his career.

#12027 EdwardCullen

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:29

This makes MS look all that worse. He is being beaten now by a driver who has achieved next to nothing during his career.

after 3 yrs break, at 41, around 12 yrs past his prime! and equalled by a 25 yrs old hot shot on his prime! nothing to be ashamed off :)

Edited by EdwardCullen, 09 August 2011 - 15:32.


#12028 Scotracer

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 15:40

Y'know, those replying to these posts are just digging a bigger hole.

Michael has disappointed. There's no way around it.



#12029 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:03

Michael has disappointed.


It ain't over till...

#12030 Afterburner

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:08

It ain't over till...

Precisely.

#12031 Augurk

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:19

It ain't over till...

But who is the fat lady??

#12032 as65p

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:26

Whatever happens in the future, neither the recent mediocre past nor the glorious distant past will go away, it's now ALL part of Schumachers career.

#12033 Scotracer

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 16:42

It ain't over till...


I think he's going to have to do a whole lot before we can say that the first 18 months of his comeback are meaningless.



#12034 razno

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 17:34

But who is the fat lady??


It ain't over till Norbert Haug sing?

:rotfl:

#12035 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 17:48

But who is the fat lady??


The Merc with a longer wheelbase ? :p

#12036 Sakae

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 17:49

This makes MS look all that worse. He is being beaten now by a driver who has achieved next to nothing during his career.



I wish it would be as straight forward conclusion as you are implying it is.

#12037 George Costanza

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 17:51

This makes MS look all that worse. He is being beaten now by a driver who has achieved next to nothing during his career.



He still is the greatest Ferrari driver of all time.... and overall, IMO. Let's see if Alonso can win 5 championships for Ferrari....

this is just a mere footnote.

Edited by George Costanza, 09 August 2011 - 17:51.


#12038 zelpre

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 19:16

http://www.corriered...

Corriere dello Sport has deleted that article! It doesn't exist anymore!

What does that mean?

#12039 puxanando

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:14

He still is the greatest Ferrari driver of all time....

:cat: ......and you know why or not??

Schumi is 'overrated' from his fans.....my thought!

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#12040 FlashMaster

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:16

:cat: ......and you know why or not??

Schumi is 'overrated' from his fans.....my thought!


And who is the greatest "Ferrari driver" in your eyes? Alfred Alfonso?

Edited by FlashMaster, 09 August 2011 - 20:17.


#12041 puxanando

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:17

Alfred Alfonso?

:p No exist any driver with THIS name!

Let us wait the next 5-7 years!

#12042 lewymp4

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:22

He still is the greatest Ferrari driver of all time.... and overall, IMO. Let's see if Alonso can win 5 championships for Ferrari....

this is just a mere footnote.


I believe that it will be hard for Fernando to win 5 championsips for Ferrari, because he doesn't have the structure of a Brawn, Todt and Byrne to call on.

Michael really only had Mika to contend with, and when Hakkinen retired their was Fernando, but for Fernando now he has to deal with both Lewis and Sebastian.


#12043 fieraku

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 20:49

:cat: ......and you know why or not??

Schumi is 'overrated' from his fans.....my thought!


I guess you never seen young Schumacher race,or seen how good he really was when he didn't have the best car. And I was never his fan,but boy was he good.
Schumi had it all as a driver,a complete package. He's 43 now and still performing,the Canada race was a glimpse of what he can actually do still at 43 years young.
He's one of the greatest athletes (not just drivers) of all time,and you say he's overrated?

The man is a living LEGEND!

#12044 puxanando

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 21:15

The man is a living LEGEND!

:yawnface: ......but 'overrated'!

#12045 fieraku

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 21:43

:yawnface: ......but 'overrated'!

Compared to who?About what?In what regard? You give no explanation,just your opinion.
If you just base it in these two years,it's the same as saying Michael Jordan was overrated due to his performance playing for the Washington Wizards.



#12046 Johnrambo

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 21:52

this is just a mere footnote.


What really is relevant is what's happening now. Past glories are past, this is not a nostalgia forum. His fall from greatness has been shocking if expected.

Edited by Johnrambo, 09 August 2011 - 21:52.


#12047 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 22:30

Whatever happens in the future, neither the recent mediocre past nor the glorious distant past will go away, it's now ALL part of Schumachers career.

That´s the problem,the 7 time world-champion now has in his curriculum being beaten by Nico Rosberg :down:

Edited by ClockworkRacing, 09 August 2011 - 22:30.


#12048 zack1994

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 22:38

after 3 yrs break, at 41, around 12 yrs past his prime! and equalled by a 25 yrs old hot shot on his prime! nothing to be ashamed off :)

Exactly my point.


#12049 zack1994

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 22:42

That´s the problem,the 7 time world-champion now has in his curriculum being beaten by Nico Rosberg :down:

He does, but he's not the same driver he was, this doesnt hurt the legend as it is not the legend of 1991 to 2006.
It is the 42 year old driver who had a 3 year break and is knowhere near his prime that gets beat by rosberg.

#12050 schuey100

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 23:29

His fall from greatness has been shocking if expected.


I don't know, can something be shocking and yet at the same time expected?

If Kostya Tszyu came back to boxing now he would lose, a LOT, it would be expected and certainly not shocking. However in now way would I think his record is in any way diminished, he was a beast of a fighter, one of the greatest. It's the nature of sport, you get old, you get beaten.

Is Tiger Woods suddenly the worst golfer ever? Or perhaps the 31 people that came ahead of him last week are better than he ever was?

Michael was great, the only question is whether he still has the ability to beat the young guns, I personally think he has, I think with the right equipment he could certainly surprise a few people. But sure, others may disagree and say he's washed up, fair enough, but to suggest that he's a bad driver, overated, worse than Rosberg (even in his prime) that's just silly. So to those that say these things, I do question your mental health!!