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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#12101 Unbiased

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:09

so if they were both in the redbull now who would you put your money on?


As I said before, the guy that suits the car better. You can have the most talented driver ever, if he sits in a car that does not suit him, he will look average and beaten by the lesser talented driver that likes the car more.

I believe Schumacher to be a much more talented driver than Rosberg, like the vast majority. Rosberg is very good, but not champion-like good.

But the car is King.


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#12102 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:12

Was has Alonso have to do with the 08 McLaren, which wasn't a worse car?

Is that how haters logic works?Of course, what can one expect from someone who says Rosberg would beat Michael in his prime.


because in 07 the ferrari barely beat the mclaren and in 08 the mclaren barely beat the ferrari, seeing as though massa beat raikkonnen who won in 07, its safe to assume that the 07 and 08 ferraris were much better than the mclarens after the hiding alonso as given massa the last two years

#12103 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:16

As I said before, the guy that suits the car better. You can have the most talented driver ever, if he sits in a car that does not suit him, he will look average and beaten by the lesser talented driver that likes the car more.

I believe Schumacher to be a much more talented driver than Rosberg, like the vast majority. Rosberg is very good, but not champion-like good.

But the car is King.


so its safe to assume that any top driver who as the best car and one that suits him would win just as many titles as schumacher as, vettel seems to be well on his way already

#12104 Tardis40

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:26

And this question is for everyone as to why do you guys keep predicting when he is going to retire when from beginning and even last month Michael made it clear that he is going to see out his three years contract with Merc!


Yes, and then decide where he goes from that point.


#12105 arknor

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:31

so if they were both in the redbull now who would you put your money on?

schumacher his racecraft is proven , rosbergs never showed anything other than steady drives.. even steady eddie irvine had more fire in his belly than nico has shown

#12106 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:35

schumacher his racecraft is proven , rosbergs never showed anything other than steady drives.. even steady eddie irvine had more fire in his belly than nico has shown


im sorry its points at the end of the year that decides who is the better driver, not how fiery someone is

#12107 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:40

im sorry its points at the end of the year that decides who is the better driver, not how fiery someone is

no that is completely wrong

#12108 Sakae

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:42

As I said before, the guy that suits the car better. You can have the most talented driver ever, if he sits in a car that does not suit him, he will look average and beaten by the lesser talented driver that likes the car more.

I too believe that. If you put Vettel into a car rated A-, but he is comfortable with it, he will be probably more successful on the track than if you put him into a car rated A+, but he is not in full control and feels uncomfortable. That raises also some philosophical question whether actually A+ is good (or better) car than the one rated A-. Probably depends on you criteria how you evaluate a "good" car. Driveability, balance, top speed, responsiveness, etc. Schumacher has trouble in turns (I think), and reasons for that could be numerous, but one thing is certain, that is, him and car aren't on the same page.

Edited by Sakae, 10 August 2011 - 18:46.


#12109 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:42

Michael never made any dumb errors now did he? take a look at canada 1999, melbourne 06 etc. not to mention all the howlers this last couple of years


How many dumb errors has Schumacher made over his 20 year career compared to Hamilton over 5?

Schumacher's legacy is secure. Hamilton is still riding the coat tails of his 2007 season. He hasn't proved anything close to greatness like Schumacher has (with the exception of Silverstone 2008 maybe).

#12110 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:43

no that is completely wrong


would you like to educate me on that :confused:

#12111 Fortymark

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:47

How many dumb errors has Schumacher made over his 20 year career compared to Hamilton over 5?

Schumacher's legacy is secure. Hamilton is still riding the coat tails of his 2007 season. He hasn't proved anything close to greatness like Schumacher has (with the exception of Silverstone 2008 maybe).


Schumacher did more dumb errors in 2010 than Hamilton has done in his whole F1 career

#12112 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:48

How many dumb errors has Schumacher made over his 20 year career compared to Hamilton over 5?

Schumacher's legacy is secure. Hamilton is still riding the coat tails of his 2007 season. He hasn't proved anything close to greatness like Schumacher has (with the exception of Silverstone 2008 maybe).


id say quite alot more, schumacher had the best car by a country mile from 2000-2004, hamilton hasnt. hamiltons competed against 2 world champions with equal status, schumacher hasnt. show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons

#12113 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:55

im sorry its points at the end of the year that decides who is the better driver, not how fiery someone is

no that is completely wrong

would you like to educate me on that :confused:

So for argument sake lets take a 10 race WDC
Driver 1 gets "six" 5th place finish and "four" 4th place finish ...that will come to 60 + 48 = total points 108 points

Driver 2 gets "two" 5th place finish, "two" 4th place finish , "three" DNFs/outside of points , "two" 3rd place and "one" Victory ....that will come to 20 + 24 + 0 + 30 + 25 = total points 99 points


So according to your logic Driver 1 is the better driver?? :rolleyes:

Edited by EdwardCullen, 10 August 2011 - 19:00.


#12114 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:57

show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons


Sorry, too many to count. Let me guess: you watch F1 since Spa 08. :rotfl:

P.S. Maybe you should watch the 00 and 03 season before you actually emit an opinion on "best cars by a country mile".

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 18:59.


#12115 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 18:59

So for argument sake lets take a 10 race WDC
Driver 1 gets "six" 5th place finish and "four" 4th place finish ...that will come to 60 + 48 = total points 108 points

Driver 2 gets "two" 5th place finish, "two" 4th place finish , "three" DNFs/outside of points , "two" 3rd place and "one" Victory ....that will come to 20 +24 + 0 + 36 + 25 = total points 105 points


So according to your above post Driver 1 is better driver?? :rolleyes:


i only class a true dnf as a mechanical failure not driver error, so come on show me all the dnfs from lastyear that cost michael almost double the amount of points that nico achieved :rotfl:

#12116 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:05

i only class a true dnf as a mechanical failure not driver error, so come on show me all the dnfs from lastyear that cost michael almost double the amount of points that nico achieved :rotfl:

i was commenting on this statement from you "im sorry its points at the end of the year that decides who is the better driver, not how fiery someone is"
Which is completely wrong...which is what i said! points alone is not a good measure! :rolleyes:

Edited by EdwardCullen, 10 August 2011 - 19:05.


#12117 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:06

Sorry, too many to count. Let me guess: you watch F1 since Spa 08. :rotfl:

P.S. Maybe you should watch the 00 and 03 season before you actually emit an opinion on "best cars by a country mile".


no ive been watching it since the early 90s so come again :lol: like i said his car was super reliable and just as fast as his rivals cars in those seasons. i prefer to call michael a 6x world champion too as its plain to see he cheated to earn the 94 championship

#12118 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:08

i was commenting on this statement from you "im sorry its points at the end of the year that decides who is the better driver, not how fiery someone is"
Which is completely wrong...which is what i said! points alone is not a good measure! :rolleyes:


i said that because i knew that michaels dnfs did not affect his fight with nico lastyear :rolleyes:

#12119 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:08

no ive been watching it since the early 90s so come again :lol:

Yea right! we all believed that :rolleyes:

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#12120 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:08

id say quite alot more, schumacher had the best car by a country mile from 2000-2004, hamilton hasnt. hamiltons competed against 2 world champions with equal status, schumacher hasnt. show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons


1. Spa 1995.
2. Spain 1996.
3. Monaco 1997.
4. Hungary 1998.
5. Japan 2000.
6. Brazil 2006.
7. France 2004.
8. Japan 1998 (epic comeback)
9. Malaysia 1999 (ditto)
10. San Marino 2005
11. Spa 1992
12. France 1997

etc etc etc etc etc etc

Ask me again?


#12121 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:10

no ive been watching it since the early 90s so come again :lol: like i said his car was super reliable and just as fast as his rivals cars in those seasons. i prefer to call michael a 6x world champion too as its plain to see he cheated to earn the 94 championship



You have an agenda. We get it. Schumacher was and is crap. Hamilton is the best of all time. We know. We get it. Blah blah blah

Go back and replay Silverstone 2008 until the Belgian GP at the end of the month.

#12122 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:11

no ive been watching it since the early 90s so come again :lol: like i said his car was super reliable and just as fast as his rivals cars in those seasons. i prefer to call michael a 6x world champion too as its plain to see he cheated to earn the 94 championship


And i prefer to call him a 9 time WDC. Without spa 98 and Silverstone 99...

Once again : you really should watch those seasons in the 00's. Maybe you'll expend your little F1 knowledge.

And he cheated in 94 by being banned for 2 races and excluded from 2 others. Sure...

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 19:15.


#12123 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:11

show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons

What an idiotic statement ! LOL :rotfl:
Its clearly shows that you are just trying to troll! :rolleyes:

#12124 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:12

1. Spa 1995.
2. Spain 1996.
3. Monaco 1997.
4. Hungary 1998.
5. Japan 2000.
6. Brazil 2006.
7. France 2004.
8. Japan 1998 (epic comeback)
9. Malaysia 1999 (ditto)
10. San Marino 2005
11. Spa 1992
12. France 1997

etc etc etc etc etc etc

Ask me again?

you didnt have to mention it, he is just trying to troll!

#12125 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:22

1. Spa 1995.
2. Spain 1996.
3. Monaco 1997.
4. Hungary 1998.
5. Japan 2000.
6. Brazil 2006.
7. France 2004.
8. Japan 1998 (epic comeback)
9. Malaysia 1999 (ditto)
10. San Marino 2005
11. Spa 1992
12. France 1997

etc etc etc etc etc etc

Ask me again?


tell me why they are any better than

1. Canada 07
2. Usa 07
3. Japan 07
4. Gbr 08
5. Ger 08
6. Bel 08
7. Aus 09
8. Hun 09
9. Sin 09
10. Chn 10
11. tur 10
12. Chn 11
13. Ger 11

#12126 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:26

tell me why they are any better than

1. Canada 07
2. Usa 07
3. Japan 07
4. Gbr 08
5. Ger 08
6. Bel 08
7. Aus 09
8. Hun 09
9. Sin 09
10. Chn 10
11. tur 10
12. Chn 11
13. Ger 11


Oh, i see. You list all of Hamilton's wins as great. :rotfl:

Sorry, but i don't think we need to list 91 wins here. Just a waste of forum space (like some other things in here).

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 19:28.


#12127 Kvothe

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:27

tell me why they are any better than

1. Canada 07
2. Usa 07
3. Japan 07
4. Gbr 08
5. Ger 08
6. Bel 08
7. Aus 09
8. Hun 09
9. Sin 09
10. Chn 10
11. tur 10
12. Chn 11
13. Ger 11


Please stop, or at least put a disclaimer that your opinion is not representative of most other Lewis fans.

#12128 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:27

So for argument sake lets take a 10 race WDC
Driver 1 gets "six" 5th place finish and "four" 4th place finish ...that will come to 60 + 48 = total points 108 points

Driver 2 gets "two" 5th place finish, "two" 4th place finish , "three" DNFs/outside of points , "two" 3rd place and "one" Victory ....that will come to 20 + 24 + 0 + 30 + 25 = total points 99 points


So according to your logic Driver 1 is the better driver?? :rolleyes:


yes it proves that driver one is the better driver if those dnfs were driver twos fault :clap:

#12129 lewymp4

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:29

:up:

schumacher his racecraft is proven , rosbergs never showed anything other than steady drives.. even steady eddie irvine had more fire in his belly than nico has shown


:up:


#12130 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:30

Oh, i see. You list all of Hamilton's wins as great. :rotfl:

Sorry, but i don't think we need to list 91 wins here. Just a waste of forum space (like some other things in here).


its not how many you win its how you win ;]

#12131 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:32

its not how many you win its how you win ;]


Yep, and the important thing here is how you win 91 Gp's. :rotfl:

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 19:34.


#12132 Sakae

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:33

its not how many you win its how you win ;]



I did not find this one in the sporting code at all.

#12133 GerhardBerger

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:37

id say quite alot more, schumacher had the best car by a country mile from 2000-2004, hamilton hasnt. hamiltons competed against 2 world champions with equal status, schumacher hasnt. show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons


In 2000 and 2003, Schumacher didn't have the best car by a "country mile".

#12134 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:37

As by his own description, Spa 08 is a "numpty from yorkshire", it's clear he's on an agenda to prove this fact.

He's a LH "uber-fan" in the mould of Grenada, Bona & Coral - those who frequent those threads will know what I mean.

LH's drive GB2008 drive, the 2011 Nurburgring are both highlights of outstanding races by him. But the fact is, when MS was in his prime, if he had a poor race, it was a shock, think Suzuka 03 - and with LH a race like Monaco or Canada appears inevitable during each season.

As for the comment that MS only has 6 titles because he cheated, that's revisionist to say the least - even if he did slam the door on Hill, it wasn't a takeout as exhibited by Senna in 1990, it wasn't even on a par with Prost in 89.

Sadly all you've done is make yourself out to be a flame baiting troll. I'm sure as a fan of F1 from the early 90's - therefore most of MS career - an objectivity about his career shouldn't be too hard for you to investigate and observe upon.

#12135 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:38

Yep, and the important thing here is how you win 91 Gp's. :rotfl:


it doesnt look like he will be expanding his c.v anytime soon, not if nico is his teammate :rotfl:

#12136 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:39

Guys just leave this Troll alone
i dont have any problem constructively criticize any driver
but this is pure trolling, flame-baiting
Its just some banned troll coming here to troll....plz dont fall for that

#12137 FlashMaster

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:49

Guys, the ignore list is a good playground for trolls.

#12138 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:49

As by his own description, Spa 08 is a "numpty from yorkshire", it's clear he's on an agenda to prove this fact.

He's a LH "uber-fan" in the mould of Grenada, Bona & Coral - those who frequent those threads will know what I mean.

LH's drive GB2008 drive, the 2011 Nurburgring are both highlights of outstanding races by him. But the fact is, when MS was in his prime, if he had a poor race, it was a shock, think Suzuka 03 - and with LH a race like Monaco or Canada appears inevitable during each season.

As for the comment that MS only has 6 titles because he cheated, that's revisionist to say the least - even if he did slam the door on Hill, it wasn't a takeout as exhibited by Senna in 1990, it wasn't even on a par with Prost in 89.

Sadly all you've done is make yourself out to be a flame baiting troll. I'm sure as a fan of F1 from the early 90's - therefore most of MS career - an objectivity about his career shouldn't be too hard for you to investigate and observe upon.


And where are you from Mighty Moose? or is that Mighty Mouse?

Yes im a hamilton fan because i think hes the best, but im also a realist!

94 was easily on par with 89 as hed crashed and was more than likely already about to retire!

I have never made myself look like a troll, ive just posted simple facts, facts that you schumacher fans cant argue against but still try to twist and turn to prove otherwise!!

#12139 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:52

I have never made myself look like a troll, ive just posted simple facts, facts that you schumacher fans cant argue against but still try to twist and turn to prove otherwise!!


What facts? You haven't provided any facts. Just your subjective opinions.

Maybe you should list all of Hamilton's wins again. Michael almost managed to win the same number of races in one season. :rotfl:

you guys are rather pathetic, when someone puts up a good argument against your fantasty worlds you cry troll and look to get the person banned!!


Your arguments are so far from being "good" as the current drivers are from being as good as Michael. But with time.... :)

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 19:57.


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#12140 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:52

Guys just leave this Troll alone
i dont have any problem constructively criticize any driver
but this is pure trolling, flame-baiting
Its just some banned troll coming here to troll....plz dont fall for that


you guys are rather pathetic, when someone puts up a good argument against your fantasty worlds you cry troll and look to get the person banned!!

#12141 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:55

What facts? You haven't provided any facts. Just your subjective opinions.


facts are nico wiped the floor with michael lastyear and he looks like hes going to handily beat him again this year. im not the one whos making subjective opinions what michael would do with nico in his ferrari days now am i?

#12142 as65p

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:55

I did not find this one in the sporting code at all.


It's right under the paragraph outlining the importance of race lap comparisons between teammates!

:)

#12143 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:59

facts are nico wiped the floor with michael lastyear and he looks like hes going to handily beat him again this year. im not the one whos making subjective opinions what michael would do with nico in his ferrari days now am i?



First fact is not denied. Maybe not wiped the floor, but still beaten.

Second part is an opinion.Like the rest of your posts.

Congratulations, after tenths of posts you managed to provide a fact that no one denies and so is irrelevant. :rotfl:

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 20:01.


#12144 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:59

I have never made myself look like a troll, ive just posted simple facts, facts that you schumacher fans cant argue against but still try to twist and turn to prove otherwise!!


Yeah, a troll or flamebaiter who says MS only has 6 titles.... nothing factual about that. Let's try the comment about dominant cars between 2000-2006... er no, wrong as well.

You make no acknowledgement of how MS was compromised for part of last season, notably in Japan & Brazil by sitting behind NR in order to help his championship position. You ignore the stated effect of the MERC needing drastically different set ups and the varying route each driver takes towards a race weekend & you come here and slate MS's achievements by trying to pretend 'anyone' could have done the same or better.

Has MS been a success in his return? On the track, of course not. But is he showing flashes of what he used to be, yeah - at Canada, and very often in the first few laps of a race. Can he do it again, maybe, maybe not. But is NR kicking his arse like he did right at the start of 2010, categorically not.

I hope MS sticks around for 2012, and MERC sort out their car so that both drivers can shine, it could be NR is special, it could be MS has slipped dramatically - chances are it's somewhere in between.

If you come in with an opinion, be ready to back it up with hard evidence, not an opinion. Get ACTUAL facts, not twisted portions of the truth and then, maybe, you might get a sensible debate going.

Oh and it's Mighty Moose - as anyone who can read and tell the difference between U & O will tell you. And I'm English, but fortunately not a Yorkshireman.

Edited by MightyMoose, 10 August 2011 - 20:02.


#12145 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:00

It's right under the paragraph outlining the importance of race lap comparisons between teammates!

:)


now that is a good one :rotfl:

#12146 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:03

It's right under the paragraph outlining the importance of race lap comparisons between teammates!

:)


Supporting trolls? Good one. Need all the help?

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 20:03.


#12147 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:05

Yeah, a troll or flamebaiter who says MS only has 6 titles.... nothing factual about that. Let's try the comment about dominant cars between 2000-2006... er no, wrong as well.

You make no acknowledgement of how MS was compromised for part of last season, notably in Japan & Brazil by sitting behind NR in order to help his championship position. You ignore the stated effect of the MERC needing drastically different set ups and the varying route each driver takes towards a race weekend & you come here and slate MS's achievements by trying to pretend 'anyone' could have done the same or better.

Has MS been a success in his return? On the track, of course not. But is he showing flashes of what he used to be, yeah - at Canada, and very often in the first few laps of a race. Can he do it again, maybe, maybe not. But is NR kicking his arse like he did right at the start of 2010, categorically not.

I hope MS sticks around for 2011, and MERC sort out their car so that both drivers can shine, it could be NR is special, it could be MS has slipped dramatically - chances are it's somewhere in between.

If you come in with an opinion, be ready to back it up with hard evidence, not an opinion. Get ACTUAL facts, not twisted portions of the truth and then, maybe, you might get a sensible debate going.


well obviously nicos choice of setup over the race weekend as proven to be the more succesful of the twos, this is an ACTUAL FACT. maybe the 7x champion can get some tips from his teammate?

#12148 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:06

you guys are rather pathetic, when someone puts up a good argument against your fantasty worlds you cry troll and look to get the person banned!!

so statements from you like this "show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons"
is good argument?? !!! NOT! :rolleyes:
Its called trolling

Edited by EdwardCullen, 10 August 2011 - 20:06.


#12149 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:08

well obviously nicos choice of setup over the race weekend as proven to be the more succesful of the twos, this is an ACTUAL FACT. maybe the 7x champion can get some tips from his teammate?


Maybe. Maybe, without his own mistakes, Michael wouldn't have lost a place to a FI and not be able to overtake 3 slower cars.

#12150 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:14

so statements from you like this "show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons"
is good argument?? !!! NOT! :rolleyes:
Its called trolling


imo i dont believe that any of schumachers greatest victories are any better than hamiltons best wins, if thats trolling then so be it!