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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#12151 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:15

imo i dont believe that any of schumachers greatest victories are any better than hamiltons best wins, if thats trolling then so be it!


Of course it's trolling when you support your argument by just listing 13 of Lewis' 16 wins and not a word more.


Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 20:16.


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#12152 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:24

Of course it's trolling when you support your argument by just listing 13 of Lewis' 16 wins and not a word more.


plz read my posts, belgium 08 was not a victory. neither was australia 09 and china 2010.

#12153 lewymp4

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:26

How many dumb errors has Schumacher made over his 20 year career compared to Hamilton over 5?

Schumacher's legacy is secure. Hamilton is still riding the coat tails of his 2007 season. He hasn't proved anything close to greatness like Schumacher has (with the exception of Silverstone 2008 maybe).


It would be interesting to find out, which driver as you say made more dumb errors, both in their 5th year of F1 racing........Hamilton or Vettel?

Siverstone in 2008 maybe......How about Lewis's drive at Germany in 2008 when Ross Brawn said, " it was reminescent of some of Michael's greatest drives. "


#12154 as65p

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:31

Supporting trolls?


Oh dear, what's with all that wimpy "wolf!" "troll!"crying? :yawnface:

Good one. Need all the help?


Damn, you revealed my cunning plan to get all the Hamilton fans on my side! :mad: :drunk:

#12155 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:36

Greatest wins.... well I think Spain 96 in a pretty average car was better than GB 08 - not by much, but enough.

Hungary 98 is one of the all-time greats.... can say possibly Nurburgring 11 could be up there, but they were different kinds of races.

Spa 95, France 04, Spa 04, Brazil 06 are also right up there...... Can't say I feel the same about Indy 07, Turkey 10 or any others.

LH has a chance of producing more wins like Nurburgring 11.... probably more so than any other driver on the grid. But if you don't see any MS race as being better than LH so far, I think enough evidence is out there to say otherwise.

#12156 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:41

Damn, you revealed my cunning plan to get all the Hamilton fans on my side! :mad: :drunk:


You always try the subtle approach.

Sry spa08, i only read the start and the end of your list. Although not many, i don't remember all of Hamilton's wins to analyse the entire list so i made a wrong assumption. Still doesn't change the fact that you haven't explained your opinion.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 20:44.


#12157 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:45

Greatest wins.... well I think Spain 96 in a pretty average car was better than GB 08 - not by much, but enough.

Hungary 98 is one of the all-time greats.... can say possibly Nurburgring 11 could be up there, but they were different kinds of races.

Spa 95, France 04, Spa 04, Brazil 06 are also right up there...... Can't say I feel the same about Indy 07, Turkey 10 or any others.

LH has a chance of producing more wins like Nurburgring 11.... probably more so than any other driver on the grid. But if you don't see any MS race as being better than LH so far, I think enough evidence is out there to say otherwise.


china 2011 was just as good as hungary 98 as schumachers main rival hakkinen had gearbox problems. schumacher was the best in his day, that is plain to see. i still think the best of todays drivers are probably better than michael ever was but that is just my opinion. ive just watched a clip of schumacher vs hill in spa 95, do you guys think the likes of hamilton and co would have faffed around behind schumacher like hill did?

Edited by spa08, 10 August 2011 - 20:47.


#12158 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 21:19

This thread has gone way downhill. Its not even fun anymore. See you all - fellow fans and trolls - at the end of the month.

Spa08, have fun.

#12159 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 21:25

This thread has gone way downhill. Its not even fun anymore. See you all - fellow fans and trolls - at the end of the month.

Spa08, have fun.


i will, looking forward to spa. lets hope schumi produces some of his old magic

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#12160 George Costanza

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 21:35

id say quite alot more, schumacher had the best car by a country mile from 2000-2004, hamilton hasnt. hamiltons competed against 2 world champions with equal status, schumacher hasnt. show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons


There are quite many...

Off my head:

Spain 1996, Monaco 1997, Spa 1997, Spa 1998 (before the crash, of course), Spa 1995, Japan 1997, Canada 1998, Monaco 1999, Japan 2000, Monza 2000, European GP 2000, French 2004, French GP 1998, Hungary 98 (The best drive, IMO). And you are wrong about 2000 and 2003, the Ferrari was not the better/faster car in 2000, check the fastest laps and the poles (Schu made the difference there) and in 2003, Williams had a better package that year, IMO.


Those drives beat Lewis drives pretty much.

Edited by George Costanza, 10 August 2011 - 21:41.


#12161 scheivlak

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:15

And you are wrong about 2000 and 2003, the Ferrari was not the better/faster car in 2000, check the fastest laps and the poles (Schu made the difference there) and in 2003, Williams had a better package that year, IMO.

2003 was a close year where Ferrari, Williams and sometimes McLaren or even Renault all were fastest at times - but 3rd or 4th fastest at other moments. I think McLaren were slightly faster overall in 2000, but not in every race. A good view of the amount of Ferrari domination is given by Barrichello's scores.

#12162 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:36

and there's no evidence to suggest that he would match michael in his prime!

I have never made myself look like a troll, ive just posted simple facts, facts that you schumacher fans cant argue against but still try to twist and turn to prove otherwise!!

be careful, you contradict yourself pretty quickly :)

the fact that there is no evidence to prove nico wouldn't match a young ms doesn't show anything. you need evidence to prove that

there is no evidence i wouldn't match ms. so what?

#12163 Tardis40

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:36

Guys, why do you let this idiot wind you up. You're giving him exactly what he wants. Just ignore the fool.

#12164 Hole

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:44

Oh dear, what's with all that wimpy "wolf!" "troll!"crying? :yawnface:


"Welcome" to Autosport forum.

#12165 schuey100

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 23:32

I'm sorry but your boxing comparisons don't wash at all, my belief is Michael is fully up to speed and just isn't the force he was when the competition wasn't as strong. If Alonso had have been in the ferraris of 05-06 he would have won those titles too


How can a 42 year old that had years out of his chosen sport (especially when that sport is technology focused) be fully up to speed? I play a little sport here and there, I'm 34, I'll tell you what, I'm in better shape than I was 5 years ago but I've lost a lot of ability. If you're suggesting that Michaelis as good as in his prime then why don't all racing drivers continue till they're 42/43? Indeed why don't we just bring back old Sterling? I mean he could get up to speed pretty quickly no? :)

#12166 arknor

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 00:54

china 2011 was just as good as hungary 98 as schumachers main rival hakkinen had gearbox problems. schumacher was the best in his day, that is plain to see. i still think the best of todays drivers are probably better than michael ever was but that is just my opinion. ive just watched a clip of schumacher vs hill in spa 95, do you guys think the likes of hamilton and co would have faffed around behind schumacher like hill did?

alonso , webber , button all drove back when schumacher was still the best...

raikkonen lol we can compare him to schumacher via massa no contest

#12167 Nivra

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:03

How can a 42 year old that had years out of his chosen sport (especially when that sport is technology focused) be fully up to speed? I play a little sport here and there, I'm 34, I'll tell you what, I'm in better shape than I was 5 years ago but I've lost a lot of ability. If you're suggesting that Michaelis as good as in his prime then why don't all racing drivers continue till they're 42/43? Indeed why don't we just bring back old Sterling? I mean he could get up to speed pretty quickly no? :)

So, If he's not upto speed after 2 years... then what the hell is he doing in F1 wasting Mercedes' time & money?? :confused:

At the moment it looks like Shumi is only hanging on to the drive because of his name & past. He would have been fired if his name wasn't MS for sure.
It also seems like he is not bringing anything special to the table for Mercedes and that Rosberg has his number, for two seasons running.
And it seems like he's hogging an F1 seat just to fulfill his own ego, passion & fun.... without actually being good enough at the moment to command such arrogance & hobby.

Schumi is one the greatest before 2006... Schumi is one of the slowest among the top10 after 2010.
When Petrov in a Renault beats you, it's sure is a sign to retire and save some face.


Schumi should be honest with himself and retire - Lauda
http://en.espnf1.com...html?CMP=chrome

"I think every sportsman - if he wants to perform as well as Schumacher did in the past - has to be honest with himself," Lauda added. "He has kept saying that he needs more time, blah, blah, blah, and he presents himself as the relaxed guy who's really enjoying it - but inside he's not relaxed at all, because no top racing driver enjoys being beaten. If he really were as relaxed as he claims to be, then Mercedes should tell him to retire!

"You don't do Formula One for fun. In the end he has to ask himself, 'Can I do it or not?' I honestly don't think it will work out for Michael now: when you want to go quicker, you try everything - and when you've tried everything and you still don't make it, that's it. I'm sure he's still trying, but one day he will realise that he can't make it, and then he will take a decision."

Edited by Nivra, 11 August 2011 - 04:07.


#12168 Birelman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:27

So, If he's not upto speed after 2 years... then what the hell is he doing in F1 wasting Mercedes' time & money?? :confused:

At the moment it looks like Shumi is only hanging on to the drive because of his name & past. He would have been fired if his name wasn't MS for sure.
It also seems like he is not bringing anything special to the table for Mercedes and that Rosberg has his number, for two seasons running.
And it seems like he's hogging an F1 seat just to fulfill his own ego, passion & fun.... without actually being good enough at the moment to command such arrogance & hobby.

Schumi is one the greatest before 2006... Schumi is one of the slowest among the top10 after 2010.
When Petrov in a Renault beats you, it's sure is a sign to retire and save some face.


Schumi should be honest with himself and retire - Lauda
http://en.espnf1.com...html?CMP=chrome

"I think every sportsman - if he wants to perform as well as Schumacher did in the past - has to be honest with himself," Lauda added. "He has kept saying that he needs more time, blah, blah, blah, and he presents himself as the relaxed guy who's really enjoying it - but inside he's not relaxed at all, because no top racing driver enjoys being beaten. If he really were as relaxed as he claims to be, then Mercedes should tell him to retire!

"You don't do Formula One for fun. In the end he has to ask himself, 'Can I do it or not?' I honestly don't think it will work out for Michael now: when you want to go quicker, you try everything - and when you've tried everything and you still don't make it, that's it. I'm sure he's still trying, but one day he will realise that he can't make it, and then he will take a decision."

What you say is very true, and I think only his fans thought he would have been as good as he was, I'm sure the debate was long and hard between a lot of his rabid fans claiming he was going to blitz the mere mortal monkeys that currently drive in F1 and the rational fans trying to bring them back to planet Earth, well, the tables are turned and now it's their fans using the age factor as their defensive weapon, ,something which apparently Schumacher was immune to i n their eyes, before they had to whitness it first hand, truth prevailed. :)

I think you're absolutely right in saying he's in F1 because of his name and past glories, nobody in their Ruhr mind should claim otherwise, it's almost as if saying that Piquet Jr. Deserves a Mercedes seat because of his last name and the heritage that it carries, same with Bruno. I do however think he does contribute to Mercedes, as he can still sell T-shirts and caps, so, he's probably good revenue, personally i'd buy more Merc shirts if they had Kate Beckinsale in it, but that's just me! :)

#12169 BRK

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:48

Please stop, or at least put a disclaimer that your opinion is not representative of most other Lewis fans.


Thank you. That had been my opinion too, it just seems we have a new fanboy troll on board.

Spa's a magical track for me as an MS fan, debut race, first win, he's always classed it as one of his favourite tracks. Should be good. :)

#12170 exmayol

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:31

At the moment it looks like Shumi is only hanging on to the drive because of his name & past. He would have been fired if his name wasn't MS for sure.


Uber nonsense... Even if you choose to ignore race pace, which MS has improved to the point of looking consistently faster than NR on multiple occasions, NR scores 3 points for 2 points scored by MS. That's not that much given where the team stands to justify any sort of "the driver is underperforming" kind of talks.

Also, if you dont want to sound like a complete joke at least suggest firing Massa, Webber, Di Resta and Perez who happen to be outscored by a much larger margin.

#12171 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:57

Can we stop comparing Michael with Gangsta? It is insulting for Michael. For MS vs Nico there is another thread. Get it?

#12172 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:05

He, just like any other driver in the grid, needs a car that suits him to beat his teammate and then it should be at least slightly better than the rest to win a race/championship.

F1 is that simple. The best car overall wins and it's won by the teammate that suits the car a bit better. There are no bad drivers in F1, the car makes them look like it. Well, Massa is a different story, the accident changed him and Ferrari still hug onto him.

You can have the best driver ever, put him in a car that does not suit him, he will look like a desperate rookie, like Schumacher has been looking the last 2 years. He hasn't lost it.

If McLaren started suiting the car exclusively to Button's wishes, Hamilton would look average. Like RBR suiting the car exclusively to Webber wishes, Vettel would look like average. At Ferrari, Schumacher era, that is exactly what happened and look what it got them.

Mercedes chooses to go the middle way (just like most teams) and it suits Rosberg a little bit better.

"It's the money, stupid", in F1 becomes "It's the car, stupid".

The Mercedes team is performing perfectly....like the Honda team. Even though they changed pretty much everything, they perform exactly the same. Rather strange.

2009 being a fluke thanks to the diffuser thing.



No offense but what a totally clueless post. Every driver on the grid needs a car that 'suits them'? So guys like Senna, Schumacher( in the past) Alonso, Hamilton were just lucky their cars always suited them?
History shows quite clearly that the best drivers adapt to any car, and there is no such thing as a car that suits a driver, that is just an excuse created by drivers who are slower than their team mates.

Also, the best car is not always needed to win the drivers champion unless you believe that all drivers are equal, which you actually seem to think. How did the 91 benetton suit Michael when he had never driven for the team before? How did the 1996 Ferrari suit him when it was designed before he even joined the team?

Cars do not suit drivers, that is what setup is for.


You can have the best driver ever, put him in a car that does not suit him, he will look like a desperate rookie, like Schumacher has been looking the last 2 years. He hasn't lost it



Give 1 example in history for a great driver in their ptime.

#12173 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:12

It is the car that inspires the driver to do something special, not the driver inspiring the car todo something special.


You need to watch F1 for a bit longer before spouting cluesless comments like that. History is filled with inspired performances in crap cars.

#12174 slaveceru

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:17

Cars do not suit drivers, that is what setup is for.


These days there is so little testing between races that it is important that the car with tires suit the driver style as much as it can. To give an example if you compare the performance of the two Red bull drivers last year with this year performance you can see that Weber was much more close to Vettel than this year. The reason for this change in Webber performance are this new tires. These new tires suits Vettel driving style better than Webbers driving style. If there was more testing between races the driver could adopt his driving style to these new tires. It could easily been different story if these new tires would suited more to Webber style of driving from the begining of the season.

#12175 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:17

You need to watch F1 for a bit longer before spouting cluesless comments like that. History is filled with inspired performances in crap cars.

you mean like Canada?

#12176 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:19

Thank you. That had been my opinion too, it just seems we have a new fanboy troll on board.

Spa's a magical track for me as an MS fan, debut race, first win, he's always classed it as one of his favourite tracks. Should be good. :)


I'm no fanboy troll, I just post plain and simple facts and you schumi fanboys cannot handle that. The facts are that Schumacher as been completely dominated by rosberg and no amount of excuses can explain that. The tyres of 2010 were completely new for all drivers so that excuse doesn't wash. Schumacher tested for Ferrari, did plenty of karting and had plenty of gp2 testing before his comeback, remember he was going to race for Ferrari in 2009 too when massa got injured, so the rusty excuse doesn't fly. Do you think Ross brawn would employ him if he thought that Michael had lost that much ability? Please explain this to me, with facts preferably

#12177 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:23

I'm no fanboy troll, I just post plain and simple facts and you schumi fanboys cannot handle that. The facts are that Schumacher as been completely dominated by rosberg and no amount of excuses can explain that. The tyres of 2010 were completely new for all drivers so that excuse doesn't wash. Schumacher tested for Ferrari, did plenty of karting and had plenty of gp2 testing before his comeback, remember he was going to race for Ferrari in 2009 too when massa got injured, so the rusty excuse doesn't fly. Do you think Ross brawn would employ him if he thought that Michael had lost that much ability? Please explain this to me, with facts preferably



Ross employed him before he knew whether he lost his ability, and he cannot easily just sack him in the middle of a contract. Michael is 42 years old, why is that not a legit 'excuse' for you? Do you really beleive athletes don't lose performance in their 40s which is when they retire and usually much earlier?

#12178 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:30

Ross employed him before he knew whether he lost his ability, and he cannot easily just sack him in the middle of a contract. Michael is 42 years old, why is that not a legit 'excuse' for you? Do you really beleive athletes don't lose performance in their 40s which is when they retire and usually much earlier?


So you're telling me that Ross never looked at the data from the G.P.2 tests beforehand? He might have lost a tenth with old age, but that isn't enough for his fanboys. They make wild claims that because he's getting destroyed in qualifying that he's lost between 0.5-1 second in pace with absolutely no evidence to prove it

#12179 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:33

I didn't hear Ross to have any problem with MS performance, even the opposite! There isn't story here. Team openly admit they failed the drivers(with their bad car). For GP2 testing Michael was 0,4 sec slower than the record there. And they were testing, not going for times. Maybe GP2 car suited Michael better?

Edited by ivand911, 11 August 2011 - 08:35.


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#12180 Number62

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:39

These days there is so little testing between races that it is important that the car with tires suit the driver style as much as it can. To give an example if you compare the performance of the two Red bull drivers last year with this year performance you can see that Weber was much more close to Vettel than this year. The reason for this change in Webber performance are this new tires. These new tires suits Vettel driving style better than Webbers driving style. If there was more testing between races the driver could adopt his driving style to these new tires. It could easily been different story if these new tires would suited more to Webber style of driving from the begining of the season.


If that were so, how do you explain that with a radical change in Tyres and car between 2010 and 2011, still;

Vettel is better than Webber
Hamilton is better than Button
Alonso is better than Massa
Rosberg is better than Scumacher
Etc.

Lots changed but stayed the same, better drivers prevailing or massive coincidence?


#12181 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:43

So you're telling me that Ross never looked at the data from the G.P.2 tests beforehand? He might have lost a tenth with old age, but that isn't enough for his fanboys.


That data would not have told him a single thing unless Rosberg drove the same car on the same day because there was no comparision to judge Michaels speed, plus even if there was it would have been reasonable to assume he just rusty after 3 years away. Ross took sa chance and thought Michael would be as good as before but he was wrong.

They make wild claims that because he's getting destroyed in qualifying that he's lost between 0.5-1 second in pace with absolutely no evidence to prove it


The fact that Rosberg, a zero time race winner, and someone who has never looked amazing in his whole career is able to thrash a 7 time world champion 91 race winner is all the evidence in the world, for a rational person.

#12182 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:43

If that were so, how do you explain that with a radical change in Tyres and car between 2010 and 2011, still;

Vettel is better than Webber
Hamilton is better than Button
Alonso is better than Massa
Rosberg is better than Scumacher
Etc.

Lots changed but stayed the same, better drivers prevailing or massive coincidence?

For some reason Nico is less better this year, but this is for different thread. About Lewis and Button not sure, it is still early.


#12183 puxanando

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:45

I didn't hear Ross to have any problem with MS performance, even the opposite!

:stoned: And if he would have...he never would pronounce it!


#12184 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:47

I didn't hear Ross to have any problem with MS performance, even the opposite! There isn't story here. Team openly admit they failed the drivers(with their bad car). For GP2 testing Michael was 0,4 sec slower than the record there. And they were testing, not going for times. Maybe GP2 car suited Michael better?


So you proved my point, Michael didn't appear to have lost much ability if any. Ross and Michael must have been mightily surprised at how well rosberg as been performing. I think Michael coming to the team raised his game tenfold. The team as not performed and I'm sure Michael didn't expect this, but that's the risk you take. FairPlay to the man, he had the guts to risk his reputation, i don't think Senna or Prost would have done the same. I'm not buying the new relaxed Michael Schumacher though as I feel inside he is devastated

#12185 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:48

:stoned: And if he would have...he never would pronounce it!

So, now we go in fantasy world? And we will read Ross thoughts?


#12186 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:50

So you proved my point, Michael didn't appear to have lost much ability if any. Ross and Michael must have been mightily surprised at how well rosberg as been performing. I think Michael coming to the team raised his game tenfold. The team as not performed and I'm sure Michael didn't expect this, but that's the risk you take. FairPlay to the man, he had the guts to risk his reputation, i don't think Senna or Prost would have done the same. I'm not buying the new relaxed Michael Schumacher though as I feel inside he is devastated

They usually are. The bastards billionaires. :rotfl: I say let first the season to end, before making big decisions?


#12187 outofbounds

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:51

So, now we go in fantasy world? And we will read Ross thoughts?


I think he's right. After all the years and success together, do you really think Brawn would come out to the press and say Schumacher's lost it?

#12188 Diablobb81

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:52

If that were so, how do you explain that with a radical change in Tyres and car between 2010 and 2011, still;

Vettel is better than Webber


You might need to have a second look at Webber's performance this year compared to last year.


#12189 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:52

That data would not have told him a single thing unless Rosberg drove the same car on the same day because there was no comparision to judge Michaels speed, plus even if there was it would have been reasonable to assume he just rusty after 3 years away. Ross took sa chance and thought Michael would be as good as before but he was wrong.



The fact that Rosberg, a zero time race winner, and someone who has never looked amazing in his whole career is able to thrash a 7 time world champion 91 race winner is all the evidence in the world, for a rational person.


Rosberg is of top quality, go look up his pre F1 career to confirm this, he's no average Joe who lucked his way into F1. You guys always bring up this Michael as 91 wins and Nico as none excuse up, when that doesn't prove a damn thing!

#12190 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:54

You might need to have a second look at Webber's performance this year compared to last year.


Look up lastyears performances up and it still proves vettel is the better of the two as he had more failures and still beat webber

#12191 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:54

I think he's right. After all the years and success together, do you really think Brawn would come out to the press and say Schumacher's lost it?

OK, welcome in fantasy world. Lets discuss something that wasn't said? I prefer the opposite.


#12192 schuey100

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:55

So, If he's not upto speed after 2 years... then what the hell is he doing in F1 wasting Mercedes' time & money?? :confused:


Why is this so difficult to grasp for people? The man is one of the greatest drivers in F1 history. He is aging, he is 42 and obviously he's going to have lost some of that natural edge. This is why drivers (and other sportsmen) retire. If you could keep going without losing something then we'd have a lot of 80 year olds running about in professional sport.

However, just because someone is getting to the end of their career doesn't mean they don't still have something to offer. Indeed Michael is keeping up with Nico, not just keeping up but beating him at various times. He could well finish the season ahead of him. So it's not like he's driving around in last place. And even if he were, you and I are not privy to what he offers in terms of value, sponsorship, motivation, etc etc etc.

Who knows, maybe he sits Nico on his lap at the end of every race, gives him a cuddle and a pep talk?

#12193 Diablobb81

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:58

Look up lastyears performances up and it still proves vettel is the better of the two as he had more failures and still beat webber


Quali and race pace.

And you are utterly wrong about the difference between Michael and Rosberg in pace. Quali is pointless in the Merc. They were 5/100ths apart and they were 1 sec apart. Except the fact that Rosberg is a better qualifier you can not draw any conclusion on the pace difference between them.

#12194 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:03

Quali and race pace.

And you are utterly wrong about the difference between Michael and Rosberg in pace. Quali is pointless in the Merc. They were 5/100ths apart and they were 1 sec apart. Except the fact that Rosberg is a better qualifier you can not draw any conclusion on the pace difference between them.


Qualifying is pointless in the Mercedes? That is a good one lol. The facts are qualifying is part of the race weekend which contributes to the race results, Nicos race weekends have defiantly been more productive than michaels since his comeback

#12195 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:21

Rosberg is of top quality, go look up his pre F1 career to confirm this, he's no average Joe who lucked his way into F1. You guys always bring up this Michael as 91 wins and Nico as none excuse up, when that doesn't prove a damn thing!



You forgot to address my first point about the gp2 test. Most F1 drivers are top quality before F1, like Kovaleinen, but they only prove to be top quality in F1, and Rosberg has never really proven it, so to compare him to the most successful driver of all time is funny.

#12196 Diablobb81

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:23

Qualifying is pointless in the Mercedes? That is a good one lol. The facts are qualifying is part of the race weekend which contributes to the race results, Nicos race weekends have defiantly been more productive than michaels since his comeback


Quali difference is pointless. You also should read everything.And no one denies Rosberg has had better results. It's obvious.



Also, someone asked for an example of the dependency between a driver and a car that suits him and the impact it can have.

I'll give you the best example : Fisichella in 09.

#12197 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:27

You forgot to address my first point about the gp2 test. Most F1 drivers are top quality before F1, like Kovaleinen, but they only prove to be top quality in F1, and Rosberg has never really proven it, so to compare him to the most successful driver of all time is funny.


Barring his debut season he has dominated his teammates, Michael Schumacher included. How do you expect him to shine with a car that's never been in the top 3 against the likes of Hamilton, Alonso and co?? Rosberg as proven his quality and if the Mercedes team don't improve I feel he will be a top team driver at some point

#12198 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:30

Quali difference is pointless. You also should read everything.And no one denies Rosberg has had better results. It's obvious.



Also, someone asked for an example of the dependency between a driver and a car that suits him and the impact it can have.

I'll give you the best example : Fisichella in 09.


I can remember lastyear that Nico didn't like the feel of the car, so in cars that neither liked Rosberg still dominated

#12199 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:35

I can remember lastyear that Nico didn't like the feel of the car, so in cars that neither liked Rosberg still dominated

So. At the end of the day Michael will still have 91 wins, 7 titles. I prefer to be in his shoes, not Nico's. And please visit MS vs Nico thread. Stop BS here.


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#12200 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:36

Barring his debut season he has dominated his teammates


His team mates being a pay driver and a decade long test driver. And that is enough to prove a driver is top quality to you seriously?

Michael Schumacher included. How do you expect him to shine with a car that's never been in the top 3 against the likes of Hamilton, Alonso and co?? Rosberg as proven his quality and if the Mercedes team don't improve I feel he will be a top team driver at some point


True top drivers always shine one way or another. Look what senna, schumacher, alonso did early in their careers in cars no better than rosbergs. He could not even get a single podium in 2009 despite having one of the original double diffuser cars which was seriously fast. A true top driver would have won races in that car.