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#12151 Sakae

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:33

its not how many you win its how you win ;]



I did not find this one in the sporting code at all.

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#12152 GerhardBerger

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:37

id say quite alot more, schumacher had the best car by a country mile from 2000-2004, hamilton hasnt. hamiltons competed against 2 world champions with equal status, schumacher hasnt. show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons


In 2000 and 2003, Schumacher didn't have the best car by a "country mile".

#12153 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:37

As by his own description, Spa 08 is a "numpty from yorkshire", it's clear he's on an agenda to prove this fact.

He's a LH "uber-fan" in the mould of Grenada, Bona & Coral - those who frequent those threads will know what I mean.

LH's drive GB2008 drive, the 2011 Nurburgring are both highlights of outstanding races by him. But the fact is, when MS was in his prime, if he had a poor race, it was a shock, think Suzuka 03 - and with LH a race like Monaco or Canada appears inevitable during each season.

As for the comment that MS only has 6 titles because he cheated, that's revisionist to say the least - even if he did slam the door on Hill, it wasn't a takeout as exhibited by Senna in 1990, it wasn't even on a par with Prost in 89.

Sadly all you've done is make yourself out to be a flame baiting troll. I'm sure as a fan of F1 from the early 90's - therefore most of MS career - an objectivity about his career shouldn't be too hard for you to investigate and observe upon.

#12154 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:38

Yep, and the important thing here is how you win 91 Gp's. :rotfl:


it doesnt look like he will be expanding his c.v anytime soon, not if nico is his teammate :rotfl:

#12155 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:39

Guys just leave this Troll alone
i dont have any problem constructively criticize any driver
but this is pure trolling, flame-baiting
Its just some banned troll coming here to troll....plz dont fall for that

#12156 FlashMaster

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:49

Guys, the ignore list is a good playground for trolls.

#12157 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:49

As by his own description, Spa 08 is a "numpty from yorkshire", it's clear he's on an agenda to prove this fact.

He's a LH "uber-fan" in the mould of Grenada, Bona & Coral - those who frequent those threads will know what I mean.

LH's drive GB2008 drive, the 2011 Nurburgring are both highlights of outstanding races by him. But the fact is, when MS was in his prime, if he had a poor race, it was a shock, think Suzuka 03 - and with LH a race like Monaco or Canada appears inevitable during each season.

As for the comment that MS only has 6 titles because he cheated, that's revisionist to say the least - even if he did slam the door on Hill, it wasn't a takeout as exhibited by Senna in 1990, it wasn't even on a par with Prost in 89.

Sadly all you've done is make yourself out to be a flame baiting troll. I'm sure as a fan of F1 from the early 90's - therefore most of MS career - an objectivity about his career shouldn't be too hard for you to investigate and observe upon.


And where are you from Mighty Moose? or is that Mighty Mouse?

Yes im a hamilton fan because i think hes the best, but im also a realist!

94 was easily on par with 89 as hed crashed and was more than likely already about to retire!

I have never made myself look like a troll, ive just posted simple facts, facts that you schumacher fans cant argue against but still try to twist and turn to prove otherwise!!

#12158 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:52

I have never made myself look like a troll, ive just posted simple facts, facts that you schumacher fans cant argue against but still try to twist and turn to prove otherwise!!


What facts? You haven't provided any facts. Just your subjective opinions.

Maybe you should list all of Hamilton's wins again. Michael almost managed to win the same number of races in one season. :rotfl:

you guys are rather pathetic, when someone puts up a good argument against your fantasty worlds you cry troll and look to get the person banned!!


Your arguments are so far from being "good" as the current drivers are from being as good as Michael. But with time.... :)

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 19:57.


#12159 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:52

Guys just leave this Troll alone
i dont have any problem constructively criticize any driver
but this is pure trolling, flame-baiting
Its just some banned troll coming here to troll....plz dont fall for that


you guys are rather pathetic, when someone puts up a good argument against your fantasty worlds you cry troll and look to get the person banned!!

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#12160 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:55

What facts? You haven't provided any facts. Just your subjective opinions.


facts are nico wiped the floor with michael lastyear and he looks like hes going to handily beat him again this year. im not the one whos making subjective opinions what michael would do with nico in his ferrari days now am i?

#12161 as65p

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:55

I did not find this one in the sporting code at all.


It's right under the paragraph outlining the importance of race lap comparisons between teammates!

:)

#12162 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:59

facts are nico wiped the floor with michael lastyear and he looks like hes going to handily beat him again this year. im not the one whos making subjective opinions what michael would do with nico in his ferrari days now am i?



First fact is not denied. Maybe not wiped the floor, but still beaten.

Second part is an opinion.Like the rest of your posts.

Congratulations, after tenths of posts you managed to provide a fact that no one denies and so is irrelevant. :rotfl:

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 20:01.


#12163 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 19:59

I have never made myself look like a troll, ive just posted simple facts, facts that you schumacher fans cant argue against but still try to twist and turn to prove otherwise!!


Yeah, a troll or flamebaiter who says MS only has 6 titles.... nothing factual about that. Let's try the comment about dominant cars between 2000-2006... er no, wrong as well.

You make no acknowledgement of how MS was compromised for part of last season, notably in Japan & Brazil by sitting behind NR in order to help his championship position. You ignore the stated effect of the MERC needing drastically different set ups and the varying route each driver takes towards a race weekend & you come here and slate MS's achievements by trying to pretend 'anyone' could have done the same or better.

Has MS been a success in his return? On the track, of course not. But is he showing flashes of what he used to be, yeah - at Canada, and very often in the first few laps of a race. Can he do it again, maybe, maybe not. But is NR kicking his arse like he did right at the start of 2010, categorically not.

I hope MS sticks around for 2012, and MERC sort out their car so that both drivers can shine, it could be NR is special, it could be MS has slipped dramatically - chances are it's somewhere in between.

If you come in with an opinion, be ready to back it up with hard evidence, not an opinion. Get ACTUAL facts, not twisted portions of the truth and then, maybe, you might get a sensible debate going.

Oh and it's Mighty Moose - as anyone who can read and tell the difference between U & O will tell you. And I'm English, but fortunately not a Yorkshireman.

Edited by MightyMoose, 10 August 2011 - 20:02.


#12164 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:00

It's right under the paragraph outlining the importance of race lap comparisons between teammates!

:)


now that is a good one :rotfl:

#12165 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:03

It's right under the paragraph outlining the importance of race lap comparisons between teammates!

:)


Supporting trolls? Good one. Need all the help?

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 20:03.


#12166 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:05

Yeah, a troll or flamebaiter who says MS only has 6 titles.... nothing factual about that. Let's try the comment about dominant cars between 2000-2006... er no, wrong as well.

You make no acknowledgement of how MS was compromised for part of last season, notably in Japan & Brazil by sitting behind NR in order to help his championship position. You ignore the stated effect of the MERC needing drastically different set ups and the varying route each driver takes towards a race weekend & you come here and slate MS's achievements by trying to pretend 'anyone' could have done the same or better.

Has MS been a success in his return? On the track, of course not. But is he showing flashes of what he used to be, yeah - at Canada, and very often in the first few laps of a race. Can he do it again, maybe, maybe not. But is NR kicking his arse like he did right at the start of 2010, categorically not.

I hope MS sticks around for 2011, and MERC sort out their car so that both drivers can shine, it could be NR is special, it could be MS has slipped dramatically - chances are it's somewhere in between.

If you come in with an opinion, be ready to back it up with hard evidence, not an opinion. Get ACTUAL facts, not twisted portions of the truth and then, maybe, you might get a sensible debate going.


well obviously nicos choice of setup over the race weekend as proven to be the more succesful of the twos, this is an ACTUAL FACT. maybe the 7x champion can get some tips from his teammate?

#12167 EdwardCullen

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:06

you guys are rather pathetic, when someone puts up a good argument against your fantasty worlds you cry troll and look to get the person banned!!

so statements from you like this "show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons"
is good argument?? !!! NOT! :rolleyes:
Its called trolling

Edited by EdwardCullen, 10 August 2011 - 20:06.


#12168 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:08

well obviously nicos choice of setup over the race weekend as proven to be the more succesful of the twos, this is an ACTUAL FACT. maybe the 7x champion can get some tips from his teammate?


Maybe. Maybe, without his own mistakes, Michael wouldn't have lost a place to a FI and not be able to overtake 3 slower cars.

#12169 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:14

so statements from you like this "show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons"
is good argument?? !!! NOT! :rolleyes:
Its called trolling


imo i dont believe that any of schumachers greatest victories are any better than hamiltons best wins, if thats trolling then so be it!

#12170 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:15

imo i dont believe that any of schumachers greatest victories are any better than hamiltons best wins, if thats trolling then so be it!


Of course it's trolling when you support your argument by just listing 13 of Lewis' 16 wins and not a word more.


Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 20:16.


#12171 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:24

Of course it's trolling when you support your argument by just listing 13 of Lewis' 16 wins and not a word more.


plz read my posts, belgium 08 was not a victory. neither was australia 09 and china 2010.

#12172 lewymp4

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:26

How many dumb errors has Schumacher made over his 20 year career compared to Hamilton over 5?

Schumacher's legacy is secure. Hamilton is still riding the coat tails of his 2007 season. He hasn't proved anything close to greatness like Schumacher has (with the exception of Silverstone 2008 maybe).


It would be interesting to find out, which driver as you say made more dumb errors, both in their 5th year of F1 racing........Hamilton or Vettel?

Siverstone in 2008 maybe......How about Lewis's drive at Germany in 2008 when Ross Brawn said, " it was reminescent of some of Michael's greatest drives. "


#12173 as65p

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:31

Supporting trolls?


Oh dear, what's with all that wimpy "wolf!" "troll!"crying? :yawnface:

Good one. Need all the help?


Damn, you revealed my cunning plan to get all the Hamilton fans on my side! :mad: :drunk:

#12174 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:36

Greatest wins.... well I think Spain 96 in a pretty average car was better than GB 08 - not by much, but enough.

Hungary 98 is one of the all-time greats.... can say possibly Nurburgring 11 could be up there, but they were different kinds of races.

Spa 95, France 04, Spa 04, Brazil 06 are also right up there...... Can't say I feel the same about Indy 07, Turkey 10 or any others.

LH has a chance of producing more wins like Nurburgring 11.... probably more so than any other driver on the grid. But if you don't see any MS race as being better than LH so far, I think enough evidence is out there to say otherwise.

#12175 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:41

Damn, you revealed my cunning plan to get all the Hamilton fans on my side! :mad: :drunk:


You always try the subtle approach.

Sry spa08, i only read the start and the end of your list. Although not many, i don't remember all of Hamilton's wins to analyse the entire list so i made a wrong assumption. Still doesn't change the fact that you haven't explained your opinion.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 August 2011 - 20:44.


#12176 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 20:45

Greatest wins.... well I think Spain 96 in a pretty average car was better than GB 08 - not by much, but enough.

Hungary 98 is one of the all-time greats.... can say possibly Nurburgring 11 could be up there, but they were different kinds of races.

Spa 95, France 04, Spa 04, Brazil 06 are also right up there...... Can't say I feel the same about Indy 07, Turkey 10 or any others.

LH has a chance of producing more wins like Nurburgring 11.... probably more so than any other driver on the grid. But if you don't see any MS race as being better than LH so far, I think enough evidence is out there to say otherwise.


china 2011 was just as good as hungary 98 as schumachers main rival hakkinen had gearbox problems. schumacher was the best in his day, that is plain to see. i still think the best of todays drivers are probably better than michael ever was but that is just my opinion. ive just watched a clip of schumacher vs hill in spa 95, do you guys think the likes of hamilton and co would have faffed around behind schumacher like hill did?

Edited by spa08, 10 August 2011 - 20:47.


#12177 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 21:19

This thread has gone way downhill. Its not even fun anymore. See you all - fellow fans and trolls - at the end of the month.

Spa08, have fun.

#12178 spa08

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 21:25

This thread has gone way downhill. Its not even fun anymore. See you all - fellow fans and trolls - at the end of the month.

Spa08, have fun.


i will, looking forward to spa. lets hope schumi produces some of his old magic

#12179 George Costanza

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 21:35

id say quite alot more, schumacher had the best car by a country mile from 2000-2004, hamilton hasnt. hamiltons competed against 2 world champions with equal status, schumacher hasnt. show me a performance from schumacher that beats any of hamiltons


There are quite many...

Off my head:

Spain 1996, Monaco 1997, Spa 1997, Spa 1998 (before the crash, of course), Spa 1995, Japan 1997, Canada 1998, Monaco 1999, Japan 2000, Monza 2000, European GP 2000, French 2004, French GP 1998, Hungary 98 (The best drive, IMO). And you are wrong about 2000 and 2003, the Ferrari was not the better/faster car in 2000, check the fastest laps and the poles (Schu made the difference there) and in 2003, Williams had a better package that year, IMO.


Those drives beat Lewis drives pretty much.

Edited by George Costanza, 10 August 2011 - 21:41.


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#12180 scheivlak

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:15

And you are wrong about 2000 and 2003, the Ferrari was not the better/faster car in 2000, check the fastest laps and the poles (Schu made the difference there) and in 2003, Williams had a better package that year, IMO.

2003 was a close year where Ferrari, Williams and sometimes McLaren or even Renault all were fastest at times - but 3rd or 4th fastest at other moments. I think McLaren were slightly faster overall in 2000, but not in every race. A good view of the amount of Ferrari domination is given by Barrichello's scores.

#12181 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:36

and there's no evidence to suggest that he would match michael in his prime!

I have never made myself look like a troll, ive just posted simple facts, facts that you schumacher fans cant argue against but still try to twist and turn to prove otherwise!!

be careful, you contradict yourself pretty quickly :)

the fact that there is no evidence to prove nico wouldn't match a young ms doesn't show anything. you need evidence to prove that

there is no evidence i wouldn't match ms. so what?

#12182 Tardis40

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:36

Guys, why do you let this idiot wind you up. You're giving him exactly what he wants. Just ignore the fool.

#12183 Hole

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 22:44

Oh dear, what's with all that wimpy "wolf!" "troll!"crying? :yawnface:


"Welcome" to Autosport forum.

#12184 schuey100

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 23:32

I'm sorry but your boxing comparisons don't wash at all, my belief is Michael is fully up to speed and just isn't the force he was when the competition wasn't as strong. If Alonso had have been in the ferraris of 05-06 he would have won those titles too


How can a 42 year old that had years out of his chosen sport (especially when that sport is technology focused) be fully up to speed? I play a little sport here and there, I'm 34, I'll tell you what, I'm in better shape than I was 5 years ago but I've lost a lot of ability. If you're suggesting that Michaelis as good as in his prime then why don't all racing drivers continue till they're 42/43? Indeed why don't we just bring back old Sterling? I mean he could get up to speed pretty quickly no? :)

#12185 arknor

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 00:54

china 2011 was just as good as hungary 98 as schumachers main rival hakkinen had gearbox problems. schumacher was the best in his day, that is plain to see. i still think the best of todays drivers are probably better than michael ever was but that is just my opinion. ive just watched a clip of schumacher vs hill in spa 95, do you guys think the likes of hamilton and co would have faffed around behind schumacher like hill did?

alonso , webber , button all drove back when schumacher was still the best...

raikkonen lol we can compare him to schumacher via massa no contest

#12186 Nivra

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:03

How can a 42 year old that had years out of his chosen sport (especially when that sport is technology focused) be fully up to speed? I play a little sport here and there, I'm 34, I'll tell you what, I'm in better shape than I was 5 years ago but I've lost a lot of ability. If you're suggesting that Michaelis as good as in his prime then why don't all racing drivers continue till they're 42/43? Indeed why don't we just bring back old Sterling? I mean he could get up to speed pretty quickly no? :)

So, If he's not upto speed after 2 years... then what the hell is he doing in F1 wasting Mercedes' time & money?? :confused:

At the moment it looks like Shumi is only hanging on to the drive because of his name & past. He would have been fired if his name wasn't MS for sure.
It also seems like he is not bringing anything special to the table for Mercedes and that Rosberg has his number, for two seasons running.
And it seems like he's hogging an F1 seat just to fulfill his own ego, passion & fun.... without actually being good enough at the moment to command such arrogance & hobby.

Schumi is one the greatest before 2006... Schumi is one of the slowest among the top10 after 2010.
When Petrov in a Renault beats you, it's sure is a sign to retire and save some face.


Schumi should be honest with himself and retire - Lauda
http://en.espnf1.com...html?CMP=chrome

"I think every sportsman - if he wants to perform as well as Schumacher did in the past - has to be honest with himself," Lauda added. "He has kept saying that he needs more time, blah, blah, blah, and he presents himself as the relaxed guy who's really enjoying it - but inside he's not relaxed at all, because no top racing driver enjoys being beaten. If he really were as relaxed as he claims to be, then Mercedes should tell him to retire!

"You don't do Formula One for fun. In the end he has to ask himself, 'Can I do it or not?' I honestly don't think it will work out for Michael now: when you want to go quicker, you try everything - and when you've tried everything and you still don't make it, that's it. I'm sure he's still trying, but one day he will realise that he can't make it, and then he will take a decision."

Edited by Nivra, 11 August 2011 - 04:07.


#12187 Birelman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:27

So, If he's not upto speed after 2 years... then what the hell is he doing in F1 wasting Mercedes' time & money?? :confused:

At the moment it looks like Shumi is only hanging on to the drive because of his name & past. He would have been fired if his name wasn't MS for sure.
It also seems like he is not bringing anything special to the table for Mercedes and that Rosberg has his number, for two seasons running.
And it seems like he's hogging an F1 seat just to fulfill his own ego, passion & fun.... without actually being good enough at the moment to command such arrogance & hobby.

Schumi is one the greatest before 2006... Schumi is one of the slowest among the top10 after 2010.
When Petrov in a Renault beats you, it's sure is a sign to retire and save some face.


Schumi should be honest with himself and retire - Lauda
http://en.espnf1.com...html?CMP=chrome

"I think every sportsman - if he wants to perform as well as Schumacher did in the past - has to be honest with himself," Lauda added. "He has kept saying that he needs more time, blah, blah, blah, and he presents himself as the relaxed guy who's really enjoying it - but inside he's not relaxed at all, because no top racing driver enjoys being beaten. If he really were as relaxed as he claims to be, then Mercedes should tell him to retire!

"You don't do Formula One for fun. In the end he has to ask himself, 'Can I do it or not?' I honestly don't think it will work out for Michael now: when you want to go quicker, you try everything - and when you've tried everything and you still don't make it, that's it. I'm sure he's still trying, but one day he will realise that he can't make it, and then he will take a decision."

What you say is very true, and I think only his fans thought he would have been as good as he was, I'm sure the debate was long and hard between a lot of his rabid fans claiming he was going to blitz the mere mortal monkeys that currently drive in F1 and the rational fans trying to bring them back to planet Earth, well, the tables are turned and now it's their fans using the age factor as their defensive weapon, ,something which apparently Schumacher was immune to i n their eyes, before they had to whitness it first hand, truth prevailed. :)

I think you're absolutely right in saying he's in F1 because of his name and past glories, nobody in their Ruhr mind should claim otherwise, it's almost as if saying that Piquet Jr. Deserves a Mercedes seat because of his last name and the heritage that it carries, same with Bruno. I do however think he does contribute to Mercedes, as he can still sell T-shirts and caps, so, he's probably good revenue, personally i'd buy more Merc shirts if they had Kate Beckinsale in it, but that's just me! :)

#12188 BRK

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:48

Please stop, or at least put a disclaimer that your opinion is not representative of most other Lewis fans.


Thank you. That had been my opinion too, it just seems we have a new fanboy troll on board.

Spa's a magical track for me as an MS fan, debut race, first win, he's always classed it as one of his favourite tracks. Should be good. :)

#12189 exmayol

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:31

At the moment it looks like Shumi is only hanging on to the drive because of his name & past. He would have been fired if his name wasn't MS for sure.


Uber nonsense... Even if you choose to ignore race pace, which MS has improved to the point of looking consistently faster than NR on multiple occasions, NR scores 3 points for 2 points scored by MS. That's not that much given where the team stands to justify any sort of "the driver is underperforming" kind of talks.

Also, if you dont want to sound like a complete joke at least suggest firing Massa, Webber, Di Resta and Perez who happen to be outscored by a much larger margin.

#12190 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:57

Can we stop comparing Michael with Gangsta? It is insulting for Michael. For MS vs Nico there is another thread. Get it?

#12191 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:05

He, just like any other driver in the grid, needs a car that suits him to beat his teammate and then it should be at least slightly better than the rest to win a race/championship.

F1 is that simple. The best car overall wins and it's won by the teammate that suits the car a bit better. There are no bad drivers in F1, the car makes them look like it. Well, Massa is a different story, the accident changed him and Ferrari still hug onto him.

You can have the best driver ever, put him in a car that does not suit him, he will look like a desperate rookie, like Schumacher has been looking the last 2 years. He hasn't lost it.

If McLaren started suiting the car exclusively to Button's wishes, Hamilton would look average. Like RBR suiting the car exclusively to Webber wishes, Vettel would look like average. At Ferrari, Schumacher era, that is exactly what happened and look what it got them.

Mercedes chooses to go the middle way (just like most teams) and it suits Rosberg a little bit better.

"It's the money, stupid", in F1 becomes "It's the car, stupid".

The Mercedes team is performing perfectly....like the Honda team. Even though they changed pretty much everything, they perform exactly the same. Rather strange.

2009 being a fluke thanks to the diffuser thing.



No offense but what a totally clueless post. Every driver on the grid needs a car that 'suits them'? So guys like Senna, Schumacher( in the past) Alonso, Hamilton were just lucky their cars always suited them?
History shows quite clearly that the best drivers adapt to any car, and there is no such thing as a car that suits a driver, that is just an excuse created by drivers who are slower than their team mates.

Also, the best car is not always needed to win the drivers champion unless you believe that all drivers are equal, which you actually seem to think. How did the 91 benetton suit Michael when he had never driven for the team before? How did the 1996 Ferrari suit him when it was designed before he even joined the team?

Cars do not suit drivers, that is what setup is for.


You can have the best driver ever, put him in a car that does not suit him, he will look like a desperate rookie, like Schumacher has been looking the last 2 years. He hasn't lost it



Give 1 example in history for a great driver in their ptime.

#12192 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:12

It is the car that inspires the driver to do something special, not the driver inspiring the car todo something special.


You need to watch F1 for a bit longer before spouting cluesless comments like that. History is filled with inspired performances in crap cars.

#12193 slaveceru

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:17

Cars do not suit drivers, that is what setup is for.


These days there is so little testing between races that it is important that the car with tires suit the driver style as much as it can. To give an example if you compare the performance of the two Red bull drivers last year with this year performance you can see that Weber was much more close to Vettel than this year. The reason for this change in Webber performance are this new tires. These new tires suits Vettel driving style better than Webbers driving style. If there was more testing between races the driver could adopt his driving style to these new tires. It could easily been different story if these new tires would suited more to Webber style of driving from the begining of the season.

#12194 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:17

You need to watch F1 for a bit longer before spouting cluesless comments like that. History is filled with inspired performances in crap cars.

you mean like Canada?

#12195 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:19

Thank you. That had been my opinion too, it just seems we have a new fanboy troll on board.

Spa's a magical track for me as an MS fan, debut race, first win, he's always classed it as one of his favourite tracks. Should be good. :)


I'm no fanboy troll, I just post plain and simple facts and you schumi fanboys cannot handle that. The facts are that Schumacher as been completely dominated by rosberg and no amount of excuses can explain that. The tyres of 2010 were completely new for all drivers so that excuse doesn't wash. Schumacher tested for Ferrari, did plenty of karting and had plenty of gp2 testing before his comeback, remember he was going to race for Ferrari in 2009 too when massa got injured, so the rusty excuse doesn't fly. Do you think Ross brawn would employ him if he thought that Michael had lost that much ability? Please explain this to me, with facts preferably

#12196 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:23

I'm no fanboy troll, I just post plain and simple facts and you schumi fanboys cannot handle that. The facts are that Schumacher as been completely dominated by rosberg and no amount of excuses can explain that. The tyres of 2010 were completely new for all drivers so that excuse doesn't wash. Schumacher tested for Ferrari, did plenty of karting and had plenty of gp2 testing before his comeback, remember he was going to race for Ferrari in 2009 too when massa got injured, so the rusty excuse doesn't fly. Do you think Ross brawn would employ him if he thought that Michael had lost that much ability? Please explain this to me, with facts preferably



Ross employed him before he knew whether he lost his ability, and he cannot easily just sack him in the middle of a contract. Michael is 42 years old, why is that not a legit 'excuse' for you? Do you really beleive athletes don't lose performance in their 40s which is when they retire and usually much earlier?

#12197 spa08

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:30

Ross employed him before he knew whether he lost his ability, and he cannot easily just sack him in the middle of a contract. Michael is 42 years old, why is that not a legit 'excuse' for you? Do you really beleive athletes don't lose performance in their 40s which is when they retire and usually much earlier?


So you're telling me that Ross never looked at the data from the G.P.2 tests beforehand? He might have lost a tenth with old age, but that isn't enough for his fanboys. They make wild claims that because he's getting destroyed in qualifying that he's lost between 0.5-1 second in pace with absolutely no evidence to prove it

#12198 ivand911

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:33

I didn't hear Ross to have any problem with MS performance, even the opposite! There isn't story here. Team openly admit they failed the drivers(with their bad car). For GP2 testing Michael was 0,4 sec slower than the record there. And they were testing, not going for times. Maybe GP2 car suited Michael better?

Edited by ivand911, 11 August 2011 - 08:35.


#12199 Number62

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:39

These days there is so little testing between races that it is important that the car with tires suit the driver style as much as it can. To give an example if you compare the performance of the two Red bull drivers last year with this year performance you can see that Weber was much more close to Vettel than this year. The reason for this change in Webber performance are this new tires. These new tires suits Vettel driving style better than Webbers driving style. If there was more testing between races the driver could adopt his driving style to these new tires. It could easily been different story if these new tires would suited more to Webber style of driving from the begining of the season.


If that were so, how do you explain that with a radical change in Tyres and car between 2010 and 2011, still;

Vettel is better than Webber
Hamilton is better than Button
Alonso is better than Massa
Rosberg is better than Scumacher
Etc.

Lots changed but stayed the same, better drivers prevailing or massive coincidence?


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#12200 mrmusicman

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:43

So you're telling me that Ross never looked at the data from the G.P.2 tests beforehand? He might have lost a tenth with old age, but that isn't enough for his fanboys.


That data would not have told him a single thing unless Rosberg drove the same car on the same day because there was no comparision to judge Michaels speed, plus even if there was it would have been reasonable to assume he just rusty after 3 years away. Ross took sa chance and thought Michael would be as good as before but he was wrong.

They make wild claims that because he's getting destroyed in qualifying that he's lost between 0.5-1 second in pace with absolutely no evidence to prove it


The fact that Rosberg, a zero time race winner, and someone who has never looked amazing in his whole career is able to thrash a 7 time world champion 91 race winner is all the evidence in the world, for a rational person.