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#12401 Jejking

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 11:55

Well yes, that's the point of the cliche.

How do you respond to the suggestion that (from our viewpoint at least) it doesn't look like a ruthless environment. Ferrari ditching Kimi and scooping Alonso, that's ruthless. Schumacher ditching Jordan for Bennetton, ruthless. etc. etc.

Brawn saying Schumacher can drive as long as he wants - NOT ruthless. It doesn't scream of a win at all costs mentality. For that reason, for me, MSC at MGP is undermining the drive for success. He keeps downgrading his reasons for return from 'i'm here to win' at the beggining to non-specific 'development' goals and maybe a rostrum next season.

That is not a winning mentality. I think Brawn and Haug need to share the blame with MSC.

I disagree. The level in F1 is so much higher (even higher) than in 2000-2004. Much more competitors, new talent, young blood, completely different game rules. Meanwhile, the 'Dream Team' isn't complete and the present members have grown older too. It's quite soft to say Mercedes GP isn't up to the job, staffwise and carwise. Bringing larger quantities of quality manpower in and doubling their efforts is going to put some pressure back on the opposition but you have to agree it's a long term game which you cannot win in 1, 2, heck, even 3 seasons.

As long as Michael keeps improving, I'll cheer him on hoping for more AND a day where all positives come together at once for a good result. Like: good start (check), good qualifying (no check there), working DRS and KERS or at least no car problems, a bit of rain to cover up the cars weaknesses. Also I'll cheer Nico on but well, to be honest I'm a bit more of a fan of Schumacher than Rosberg because of mentality :smoking: Finally Mercedes and its members grew realistic, after that nonsense at the start of 10. Bit of humbleness really fits them.

Edited by Jejking, 16 August 2011 - 11:57.


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#12402 puxanando

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 11:57

That is not a winning mentality. I think Brawn and Haug need to share the blame with MSC.

:up: I'm with you!
This sport is for fighting to be on the top and not only for have fun and hobby!

#12403 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 12:00

That is not a winning mentality. I think Brawn and Haug need to share the blame with MSC.

of course they should. each play a part
they want to win titles and races.

at the moment the car is nowhere close to that. when the car gets closer to that and ms won't deliver then it will be his fault

#12404 Number62

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 12:02

I disagree. The level in F1 is so much higher (even higher) than in 2000-2004. Much more competitors, new talent, young blood, completely different game rules. Meanwhile, the 'Dream Team' isn't complete and the present members have grown older too. It's quite soft to say Mercedes GP isn't up to the job, staffwise and carwise. Bringing larger quantities of quality manpower in and doubling their efforts is going to put some pressure back on the opposition but you have to agree it's a long term game which you cannot win in 1, 2, heck, even 3 seasons.

As long as Michael keeps improving, I'll cheer him on hoping for more AND a day where all positives come together at once for a good result. Like: good start (check), good qualifying (no check there), working DRS and KERS or at least no car problems, a bit of rain to cover up the cars weaknesses. Also I'll cheer Nico on but well, to be honest I'm a bit more of a fan of Schumacher than Rosberg because of mentality :smoking: Finally Mercedes and its members grew realistic, after that nonsense at the start of 10. Bit of humbleness really fits them.


What if he doesn't?

What if he keeps qualifying badly, twanging front wings and finishing behind Rosberg. Do you think MGP should get rid of him for the better of the team.

Hell, let's get hypothetical, if Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton became available, would you support a MGP (purely sporting) decision to replace MSC with one of them?

#12405 zelpre

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 13:37

Haug: Redbull took five years

Mercedes figures admit 2012 title tilt unlikely


Schumacher invites paddock to mark 20th anniversary :)


Michael Schumacher Interview in Stutgart - 125 years of Mercedes


BTW, will Michael really get a new helmet at SPA?

Edited by zelpre, 16 August 2011 - 13:51.


#12406 ivand911

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 15:08

Ruthless, ruthless?? Some guys here are so funny. If they were ruthless in F1 after not wining the championship team bosses need to fire everybody , useless clowns driving for Ferrari ,McLaren and all other teams. But, first two teams for sure because they are closest to the RBR and this clowns don't deliver. Fire them all. How can they not deliver? What is the difference to finish second and 10th in Championship? They are all losers, but 1st and 9th loser.

Edited by ivand911, 16 August 2011 - 15:12.


#12407 Number62

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 15:27

Ruthless, ruthless?? Some guys here are so funny. If they were ruthless in F1 after not wining the championship team bosses need to fire everybody , useless clowns driving for Ferrari ,McLaren and all other teams. But, first two teams for sure because they are closest to the RBR and this clowns don't deliver. Fire them all. How can they not deliver? What is the difference to finish second and 10th in Championship? They are all losers, but 1st and 9th loser.


Aldo Costa?



#12408 Jejking

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 15:28

What if he doesn't?

What if he keeps qualifying badly, twanging front wings and finishing behind Rosberg. Do you think MGP should get rid of him for the better of the team.

Hell, let's get hypothetical, if Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton became available, would you support a MGP (purely sporting) decision to replace MSC with one of them?

What if he does?

If I take Turn 8 in Turkey for example, it is so incredibly obvious that the car is at fault for not being able to compete. That counts for both drivers, not only MSC, not only ROS. If you have slower stuff to work with, it is harder to stand out of the crowd or to overcome whoever is in front of you. Then risks, then accidents. I think Rosberg at this very moment is the smartest driver, staying out of trouble. Good to see it works for him but it doesn't convince me at all that he is WDC material. Schumacher on the other hand has problems in qualifying (not always, a piece of those results is exaggarated and also a piece of those results is humiliating, one second) to keep up. Then Sunday comes and he has to soldier on with whatever he has under his German bottom. To say nowadays' drivers are pussies is really bs, with a lot of fired up drivers around it is easy to lose it. So for now I don't totally blame him because I see bits and pieces of promise alongside the problems. If Alonso after a wild night out with a lot of Queimada drinks to bust his conscience decided to jump on the Mercedes bandwagon, I would have disagreed at the moment. I'm partially optimistic about the rest of the season, I think there still is a chance Schumacher gets his act together reasonably well although it won't be easy.

And by the way, I'm the first to admit that an eight title is very unlikely. Time is against Schumacher and also his teammate is the greatest challenge of his whole career. Me'd be surprised if he manages to collect it but first he has got to get the better of Rosberg before he even starts to dream about Title #8.

Edited by Jejking, 16 August 2011 - 15:29.


#12409 Jejking

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 15:30

Haug: Redbull took five years

Mercedes figures admit 2012 title tilt unlikely


Schumacher invites paddock to mark 20th anniversary :)


Michael Schumacher Interview in Stutgart - 125 years of Mercedes


BTW, will Michael really get a new helmet at SPA?

I think he will get the new helmet. It was something with black and yellow, I read?

Or it might be Kubica having a go at it :rotfl:

#12410 ivand911

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 15:40

Aldo Costa?

Now, it is one engineer fault? You said rightfully that they need to share the blame. So, drivers are included. Fire them too. Or when it is MGP(car much worse that Ferrari), it is MS fault , but when it is Ferrari it is Costa fault? I would say that in very bad car engineers have much bigger guilt than drivers? So, at MGP drivers have less guilt ,than in better teams.

I think he will get the new helmet. It was something with black and yellow, I read?
Or it might be Kubica having a go at it :rotfl:

Strangely Michael is only who prefer 2010 Schubert helmet. All other drivers use new 2011 one.

Edited by ivand911, 16 August 2011 - 15:43.


#12411 Number62

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 16:05

Now, it is one engineer fault? You said rightfully that they need to share the blame. So, drivers are included. Fire them too. Or when it is MGP(car much worse that Ferrari), it is MS fault , but when it is Ferrari it is Costa fault? I would say that in very bad car engineers have much bigger guilt than drivers? So, at MGP drivers have less guilt ,than in


Correct. It is part of Brawns job to do the hiring and firing. Drivers have been dropped before and will be dropped in the future, why should MSC be excluded from performance based tenure?

They are hiring extensively in engineering which suggests they recognise some failings.

'Schumacher can drive as long as he wants' is not him doing his job.

#12412 Watkins74

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 20:42

I didn't realize that Spa will be Michaels 20th Anniversary of his debut. I remember the buzz about his talent that weekend.

Congratulations Michael.

Beautiful car:



look at the press, there was an instant buzz about his arrival:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by Watkins74, 16 August 2011 - 20:46.


#12413 Afterburner

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 22:00

I didn't realize that Spa will be Michaels 20th Anniversary of his debut.

Who wants to bet he'll be out at the first corner with a clutch problem? :p

#12414 fieraku

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 22:07

I will do the rain dance for Michael around my Tlaloc statue so he can celebrate with a podium.

#12415 Raelene

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 22:20

zelpre - thanks fo rhte link to the interview - enjoyed it

#12416 merschu

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:27

I had posted this in April of last year. But now with Michael Schumacher's 20th Anniversary of his debut in Spa. This post tells a lot about his first race in F1.


Here is how Schumi got the drive of Spa:

Michael was not hyped up prior to his debut like some young drivers are already before they arrive (eg. Montoya). In fact, hardly even anybody knew his name because it wasn't typical to take drivers from sporstcars to F1. Like today, team bosses would rather take F3000 drivers or maybe F3 drivers. That was also the reason why Frentzen left Mercedes' sportscars programme for a seat in F3000.

Michael however stayed with Mercedes and that ironically made him an F1 driver quicker than F3000 did with Frentzen! Michael was taking part in the 1991 C Group sportscar World Championship when his manager, Willi Weber got an info about Gachot being jailed and Jordan needing a driver. He phoned and faxed a lot until he got through to Eddie Jordan and offered him the services of Michael. Jordan was like: "Who the heck is Michael Schumacher?"

But Jordan decided to give him a try. They gave him a test in Silverstone and they were impressed. Michael lapped quicker immedtaiely than anybody before in that Jordan car! Jordan said after his first testing in Silverstone that the race engineer couldn’t believe the lap times. He said that those are the times they had never seen, and they thought that,Schumi found a shortcut. During those 40 laps,Schumi broke the lap record of Jordan in Silverstone. It was a short test and Michael was about to thrown into deep water right away the next week in the Belgian GP. Jordan asked his manager if Michael knew Spa and Weber replied "of course", but it wasn't true. Michael never drove before in Spa.


He improved throughout the weekend. Started the race on 7th position and then overtook 2 cars went to fifth position and then his car broke down.

The facts from forix.com

Here is how Schumi did in his first ever F1 weekend

In First free practice: (11) 32 M.Schumacher Jordan/Ford 1'55.322 4.979 216.645

In 2nd free practice: (5) 32 M.Schumacher Jordan/Ford 1'51.071 1.108 224.937

In 1st qualifying: (8) 32 M.Schumacher Jordan/Ford 1'53.290 4.190 220.531

In 2nd qualifying: (6) 32 M.Schumacher Jordan/Ford 1'51.212 3.401 224.652

In Warm up: (4) 32 M.Schumacher Jordan/Ford 1'56.986 1.775 213.564

In the race he had a DNF.


Here are a couple of quotes on the 1991 Spa weekend from Timothy Collings' book: 'Schumacher - The life of the new Formula One Champion'

"It was the confidence with which he performed as much as what he did which impressed. Immediately, he was described as arrogant, Teutonic, super-confident or cool. It was hard for his contemporaries and critics to accept what he did. His teammate Andrea de Cesaris was pushed beyond his own normal limits. For everyone, it was hard to believe that this boyish-looking slim-as-a-wisp driver could achieve such times in such a confident fashion. His aloofness, his remoteness, his celf-centered confidence made it worse and virtually every reporter in the paddock who came into contact with him was to be intrigued. This German boy, who came from sportscars, was blasting a hole through the Formula One estabilishment, handling himself with ease in and out of the car and oozing confidence. What made it even more difficult to accept was the simple fact that it was all natural. Yes, he was really that good.

'On Friday, I never tried Eau Rouge flat. I nearly braked and at first I took it in fifth gear and then in sixth. That was a problem, to get used to a part of the circuit like this where you can do it flat, but without experience so you do do it slowly, step by step,' Schumacher recalled later. 'With my first set of qualifiers, I was just on my lap when Eric van de Poele went off and practice was stopped. The second time I tried with the same set of tyres and Prost blocked my lap. He was starting his quick lap. I braked at the limit for me, but he braked a bit too early for me and there were only two possibilities. Crash into him or use the escape road... I thought it was better to use it.'



It was a measure of the stunning effect of Schumacher's qualifying performance at Spa (seventh on the grid for his first race on arguably the world's most daunting Grand Prix circuit) that many people refused to beleive or accept it. One was Schumacher's veteran Italian teammate Andrea de Cesaris. 'Andrea was distraught at the end of that qualifying,' said Phillips. 'He was just schocked. "I know I didn't drive well, but one and a half seconds!" he said. "It's not possible. Not possible."

'There were some very interesting points, again, which struck me. One was that on a particular part of the circuit, Andrea was in quandary. If he kept it in fifth gear all the way through the section, the car got very high on revs and very nervous. And he said "If I try in sixth gear then, likewise, the car bogs down." He was talking about the bit where the track comes from down the top of the circuit, where you come into the first one in fifth and then take the second part in sixth and, obviously, to change gear in the middle of it was difficult... I said to Michael, in the debrief: "Do you have the same problem?" He said, "Well, I did for three laps and then I realised that what I do is go into it in sixth gear and I just left-foot brake and it just steadies the car in the middle and then I just take both corners in sixth." And he had not even mentioned it. He had just worked it out all for himself. For him, it was perfectly natural. He was simply driving the car.

'There was no issue. He had not come in and said "Look I've found this a problem or that. And there was no mention of anything at all. As far as he was concerned, it was the fastest way to get the car round those two corners. He had worked out all the other options and none of them were ideal. But this was the best compromise. There was also another bit, coming back to the "Bus Stop" chicane, the two very quick left-handers, which was interesting. If you looked at the section times, he was very quick there. Although he was in the top seven or eight all the time, he was always about second or third quickest. Andrea was unhappy with that section in his car. He said that "As you lift, just as you turn in, it gets a bit unsettled on the bumps", and I remember I talked to Michael about it. "Yeah," he said. "But it's okay if you just drive it flat. The lift actually destabilizes the car and if you keep it flat it's okay." Sure enough, it was.'


Few pictures from that weekend
Posted Image
Posted Image
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Posted Image


And I said this then and I am saying it now again: To me Michael Schumacher will always be one of the greatest racing driver ever. Those who don't believe that's fine it's your opinion but you surely are living in denial.

Edited by merschu, 17 August 2011 - 06:35.


#12417 rm111

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 06:21

Champion'[/b]




And I said this then and I am saying it now again: To me Michael Schumacher will always be one of the greatest racing driver ever. Those who don't believe that's fine it's your opinion but you surely are living in denial.



:up:

#12418 Craven Morehead

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 07:07

Here's a great clip from youtube; I have no idea what they are saying but this is pure gold. Just a kid, but he's already completely himself. (Apologies if its already been posted).

schumi in '83



#12419 Craven Morehead

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 07:28

Btw, merschu, thanks for that last post. Most enjoyable to read all the stuff from that day again. This is why I continue to come here: to find some quality F1 information. Nice to see it still exists amongst all the static. :up:

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#12420 Starish

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 08:10

I wanna see him in that helmet livery next week.

Edited by Starish, 17 August 2011 - 08:10.


#12421 Clatter

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 11:01

Like he led his respective teams in 'other' direction from 1991-2006?

Schumacher has a PROVEN history and pedigree, as does Ross Brawn, Newey, Dennis and all the old guard.


And there's the problem. Your spending too long looking back at what he did yesteryear and ignoring the current performance. There are plenty of ex-WDC's out there who all have a proven history and pedigree, but you wouldn't put them in a car now.

#12422 puxanando

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 11:16

And there's the problem. Your spending too long looking back at what he did yesteryear and ignoring the current performance. There are plenty of ex-WDC's out there who all have a proven history and pedigree, but you wouldn't put them in a car now.

:rolleyes: This is a commun illness of most Schumi fans. They live more in past than in present & future!

#12423 arknor

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 11:27

:rolleyes: This is a commun illness of most Schumi fans. They live more in past than in present & future!

just like ferrari then :wave:

#12424 zelpre

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 11:52

I so hope for a great result for his 20th anniversary. If I hoped much for good results before, then I hope and expect the most for this race in SPA. Hope God gives some rain on track...It would be so fantastic if Michael gets podium.

#12425 KavB

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 13:04

I hope he does race with that helmet just as a symbol. I hope he gets a great result here.. who knows maybe he will shock us and somehow get a podium. Sadly it would even be great if he qualified 7th again :lol:

Schumi has literally been racing all my life as I was born the day he qualified 7th :)

#12426 Jejking

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 13:29

I so hope for a great result for his 20th anniversary. If I hoped much for good results before, then I hope and expect the most for this race in SPA. Hope God gives some rain on track...It would be so fantastic if Michael gets podium.

Well, if the stars are aligned for Jenson exactly five years after his win in Hungary and then celebrating his 200th with a victory... You surely hope there is something special for Schumacher to snatch next week!

Edit: about Jerez 1997. I've never seen this laptime list before! ( http://en.mclarenf-1...h...dr1=5&dr2=3 ). In the end I think Schumachers car didn't have or develop a problem, his speed is pretty much the same or even slightly faster (on average) as with the first laps after his first stop. I think Villeneuve just pushed the pedal through the floor and nailed it right before Schumachers pace started to settle like 'a tiny bit slower than Villeneuve but not enough to make a pass possible'. Anyone?

Edited by Jejking, 17 August 2011 - 13:39.


#12427 Jazza

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 13:39

Well, if the odds are right for Jenson exactly five years after his win in Hungary and then celebrating his 200th with a victory... You surely hope there is something special for Schumacher to snatch next week!

Edit: about Jerez 1997. I've never seen this laptime list before! ( http://en.mclarenf-1...h...dr1=5&dr2=3 ). In the end I think Schumachers car didn't have or develop a problem, his speed is pretty much the same or even slightly faster (on average) as with the first laps after his first stop. I think Villeneuve just pushed the pedal through the floor and nailed it right before Schumachers pace started to settle like 'a tiny bit slower than Villeneuve but not enough to make a pass possible'. Anyone?


Wasn't he stuck behind HHF after his first stop?


#12428 EdwardCullen

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 15:33

And there's the problem. Your spending too long looking back at what he did yesteryear and ignoring the current performance. There are plenty of ex-WDC's out there who all have a proven history and pedigree, but you wouldn't put them in a car now.

So according to your logic, Lauda couldnt even complete a lap without spinning in that Jaguar....so he is utter cr@p and not worthy of his past achievements??!
and Mika tested the mclaren at 2003? i guess...and he was 2 secs slower than Kimi....so he is also not worth of his past achievements??!!
SO they are just poor drivers who where just lucky? :rolleyes:
For example lets put Prost in one of the MGP or Renaults, and if he loses does that mean that his 4 titles and 51 wins will not count and we all will say to him that come here when you are 70 and beat all the young drivers, then only we will agree that you are One of the best!??
No matter how hard some Alonso fnas or Lewis fans try, its not gonna rewrite the history....his past career shows that he is a legend and one of the best ever driver F1's history!

Edited by EdwardCullen, 17 August 2011 - 15:43.


#12429 EdwardCullen

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 15:36

of course they should. each play a part
they want to win titles and races.

at the moment the car is nowhere close to that. when the car gets closer to that and ms won't deliver then it will be his fault

:up:

#12430 Jazza

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 15:52

So according to your logic, Lauda couldnt even complete a lap without spinning in that Jaguar....so he is utter cr@p and not worthy of his past achievements??!
and Mika tested the mclaren at 2003? i guess...and he was 2 secs slower than Kimi....so he is also not worth of his past achievements??!!
SO they are just poor drivers who where just lucky? :rolleyes:
For example lets put Prost in one of the MGP or Renaults, and if he loses does that mean that his 4 titles and 51 wins will not count and we all will say to him that come here when you are 70 and beat all the young drivers, then only we will agree that you are One of the best!??
No matter how hard some Alonso fnas or Lewis fans try, its not gonna rewrite the history....his past career shows that he is a legend and one of the best ever driver F1's history!


Can't really speak for clatter, but I'm pretty sure your examples prove his point.

These drivers were great, but you wouldn't give them a car now. That is not an insult on them, nor is it saying they were never any good. Just that their time has passed and they are no longer cut out for F1.

MS was certainly great, and nothing will ever change that. But that doesn't mean he should be given a car now.

Edited by Jazza, 17 August 2011 - 15:55.


#12431 as65p

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 16:19

of course they should. each play a part
they want to win titles and races.

at the moment the car is nowhere close to that. when the car gets closer to that and ms won't deliver then it will be his fault


It's his fault already that he gets beaten by Rosberg.

Have to admit I'm pretty glad he's not paired with a lesser driver. Already now the issue of being beaten by his teammate gets dismissed, if MS teammate would get worse results than him we wouldn't hear the end of how he would blitz the field in a competitive car. :drunk:

#12432 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 16:25

It's his fault already that he gets beaten by Rosberg.


him being beaten by rosberg does not stop mercedes from being a wdc contender. average finish poistions were 8th and 9th I think which shows a gap that is ideally any team would have.
he currently has the best year finish (4th) so the team has hardly performed at the required level.

#12433 fieraku

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 16:31

No matter how hard some Alonso fnas or Lewis fans try, its not gonna rewrite the history....his past career shows that he is a legend and one of the best ever driver F1's history!

Well I'm a LH fan and i don't think Schumi is just one of the great drivers but rather one of the greatest athletes. In my list he's up there with Jordan,Ali,Pele,Rossi,Federer,Merckx,Michael Johnson et al.

Stuff of Legends.

#12434 as65p

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 18:57

him being beaten by rosberg does not stop mercedes from being a wdc contender. average finish poistions were 8th and 9th I think which shows a gap that is ideally any team would have.
he currently has the best year finish (4th) so the team has hardly performed at the required level.


No, but it stops him from winning a WDC, regardless of car performance. Because for all we know he would finish 2nd at best. Unless they sack Rosberg and hire something worse.

#12435 arknor

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 20:44

No, but it stops him from winning a WDC, regardless of car performance. Because for all we know he would finish 2nd at best. Unless they sack Rosberg and hire something worse.

nearly all schumachers accidents are against midfield drivers hes been fine vs button , webber , hamilton , alonso etc so surely logic suggests if he had a front running car he wouldnt be having these accidents with petrov , kobayashi etc

weve seen his pace in recent races to be better than rosbergs.

we know your an anti MSC poster though so you will just post whatever rubbish u think can get a reaction

#12436 puxanando

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 20:59

nearly all schumachers accidents are against midfield drivers hes been fine vs button , webber , hamilton , alonso etc so surely logic suggests if he had a front running car he wouldnt be having these accidents with petrov , kobayashi etc

weve seen his pace in recent races to be better than rosbergs.

we know your an anti MSC poster though so you will just post whatever rubbish u think can get a reaction

:stoned: too lots "IFS"

#12437 as65p

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 21:06

nearly all schumachers accidents are against midfield drivers hes been fine vs button , webber , hamilton , alonso etc so surely logic suggests if he had a front running car he wouldnt be having these accidents with petrov , kobayashi etc

weve seen his pace in recent races to be better than rosbergs.

we know your an anti MSC poster though so you will just post whatever rubbish u think can get a reaction


Who's "we"? :)

If I post rubbish, attack that. Pointing at my dislike for MS get's us nowhere, espially not coming from a devoted fan like you. We're two sides of the same coin, dismissal of my opinion automatically de-values your own as well, because "we" know you'll post whatever rubbish u think might deflect from the fact that MS doesn't nearly perform as well as you would like.

#12438 arknor

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 21:43

Who's "we"? :)

If I post rubbish, attack that. Pointing at my dislike for MS get's us nowhere, espially not coming from a devoted fan like you. We're two sides of the same coin, dismissal of my opinion automatically de-values your own as well, because "we" know you'll post whatever rubbish u think might deflect from the fact that MS doesn't nearly perform as well as you would like.

http://en.mclarenf-1...chart&year=2011

use this site look at the laptimes last few races... as i said pace is good enough , give him a front running car that keeps him away from the midfield and he wont get the accidents from running around near the renaults , saubers and torro rossos.

all he really has to worry about if a good car comes along is his qualifying/ or beeing close enough to nico that he can pass him on the firstlap as he is unlikely to beat nico aslong as nico gets first call on pitstops

#12439 as65p

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 22:01

http://en.mclarenf-1...chart&year=2011

use this site look at the laptimes last few races... as i said pace is good enough , give him a front running car that keeps him away from the midfield and he wont get the accidents from running around near the renaults , saubers and torro rossos.

all he really has to worry about if a good car comes along is his qualifying/ or beeing close enough to nico that he can pass him on the firstlap as he is unlikely to beat nico aslong as nico gets first call on pitstops


This laps comparisons are misleading, as has been pointed out many times. The only thing they show is that MS isn't as slow in the races as in qualifying. Hey-ho.

And the reason he doesn't crash into frontrunners is simply that he's usually nowhere near them. Obviously, one would think. He keeps tangling with those around him, equally obviously. I don't get your "logic" how he would stop making mistakes if he would be racing at the front. That's plugged out of thin air.

Further, say MGP builds a dominant car soon (won't happen anyway, apparently they've already thrown the towel for 2012 in advance). The current qualifying gap suggest NR would start from pole a lot, whereas MS would probably slot in around row three or four. And the guys he meets there won't be as easy to pass during the starting phase as the midfielders he deals with now. If anything, more accidents would be on the cards.

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#12440 Raelene

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 22:31

yeah but MSC would pass Nico okn the first lap anyway with the starts he has ;) and if he had to race him,, well Nico's not really a "racer" is he - so hey presto - qualy won't matter again ;)

#12441 Clatter

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 23:42

So according to your logic, Lauda couldnt even complete a lap without spinning in that Jaguar....so he is utter cr@p and not worthy of his past achievements??!
and Mika tested the mclaren at 2003? i guess...and he was 2 secs slower than Kimi....so he is also not worth of his past achievements??!!
SO they are just poor drivers who where just lucky? :rolleyes:
For example lets put Prost in one of the MGP or Renaults, and if he loses does that mean that his 4 titles and 51 wins will not count and we all will say to him that come here when you are 70 and beat all the young drivers, then only we will agree that you are One of the best!??
No matter how hard some Alonso fnas or Lewis fans try, its not gonna rewrite the history....his past career shows that he is a legend and one of the best ever driver F1's history!


You really do have a complete lack of understanding. :rolleyes:

Can't really speak for clatter, but I'm pretty sure your examples prove his point.

These drivers were great, but you wouldn't give them a car now. That is not an insult on them, nor is it saying they were never any good. Just that their time has passed and they are no longer cut out for F1.

MS was certainly great, and nothing will ever change that. But that doesn't mean he should be given a car now.


You got it exactly right. :up:

#12442 arknor

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 00:31

This laps comparisons are misleading, as has been pointed out many times. The only thing they show is that MS isn't as slow in the races as in qualifying. Hey-ho.

And the reason he doesn't crash into frontrunners is simply that he's usually nowhere near them. Obviously, one would think. He keeps tangling with those around him, equally obviously. I don't get your "logic" how he would stop making mistakes if he would be racing at the front. That's plugged out of thin air.

Further, say MGP builds a dominant car soon (won't happen anyway, apparently they've already thrown the towel for 2012 in advance). The current qualifying gap suggest NR would start from pole a lot, whereas MS would probably slot in around row three or four. And the guys he meets there won't be as easy to pass during the starting phase as the midfielders he deals with now. If anything, more accidents would be on the cards.

heas already had alot of clean racing with people at the front and hes passed them off the grid aswell.

i remember what hamilton was like when he had to fight with mid field drivers half the time schumachers only with them cos he always gets the rubbish pit stop window

#12443 Number62

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 07:08

http://en.mclarenf-1...chart&year=2011

use this site look at the laptimes last few races... as i said pace is good enough , give him a front running car that keeps him away from the midfield and he wont get the accidents from running around near the renaults , saubers and torro rossos.

all he really has to worry about if a good car comes along is his qualifying/ or beeing close enough to nico that he can pass him on the firstlap as he is unlikely to beat nico aslong as nico gets first call on pitstops


He managed to hit Hamilton at Monaco didn't he?

#12444 Diablobb81

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 07:33

He managed to hit Hamilton at Monaco didn't he?

Start incident that happens. Compared to the usual results he gets in the first lap , it's nothing.

Why not be positive and focus on the times he managed to overtake Hamilton.

#12445 Jejking

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 09:02

This laps comparisons are misleading, as has been pointed out many times. The only thing they show is that MS isn't as slow in the races as in qualifying. Hey-ho.

And the reason he doesn't crash into frontrunners is simply that he's usually nowhere near them. Obviously, one would think. He keeps tangling with those around him, equally obviously. I don't get your "logic" how he would stop making mistakes if he would be racing at the front. That's plugged out of thin air.

Further, say MGP builds a dominant car soon (won't happen anyway, apparently they've already thrown the towel for 2012 in advance). The current qualifying gap suggest NR would start from pole a lot, whereas MS would probably slot in around row three or four. And the guys he meets there won't be as easy to pass during the starting phase as the midfielders he deals with now. If anything, more accidents would be on the cards.

Since his comeback of the top contenders, Jenson Button, Lewis Hamilton, Mark Webber, Fernando Alonso, Felipe Massa. All without pitcrew-attention-needing consequences, in the end losing places while defending hard for multiple laps. So where's your point now? Guess it might be a respect issue on the youthy side of the grid..

#12446 Sakae

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:13

Latest endorsement from Mr. Haug of Michael is timely issued balm to this driver, and its important for their team.

MGP seems to be managed very well, and to an outsider, more preferable to McLaren' or Willimas' at any day. Hopefully now it all will translate into something tangible on the track. Five years is probably sensible time line, even as we had hoped for more and continuity after 2009.

Edited by Sakae, 18 August 2011 - 12:47.


#12447 zelpre

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:47

’Sad’ to see ’superman’ Schumacher struggle - Ecclestone

Mercedes boss Norbert Haug says Michael Schumacher still has the fire to succeed

:)

#12448 mrmusicman

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 12:13

No doubt the fire still burns but obviously not the talent. What is amazing is just how much speed he has lost. If he was merely as fast as someone like Rosberg it would be quite a step back, but to be generally much slower is a surprisingly large drop in performance. I bet Rubens would whip him now.

#12449 Antonov

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 12:32

also, 'no one has gained as much positions from the grid as Michael did' is just an utter utter utter BS argument.
You'd only expect him to do that if he consistently fails to qualifying the car in a higher position than it should be!

#12450 fieraku

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 13:19

also, 'no one has gained as much positions from the grid as Michael did' is just an utter utter utter BS argument.
You'd only expect him to do that if he consistently fails to qualifying the car in a higher position than it should be!

So if making great starts and gaining positions is utter utter utter BS,I wonder what bad starts would be?