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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#12851 pt5

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:27

These numbers are hugely suspect.. the safety car didn't look to really significantly play into Michael's hands at all..

I call bullshit on your whole post. Once we have full lap time details the exact details of your dissembling should become clear.



I have all the laptimes. I posted the dif between the two.

Don´t pretend you didn´t see that Michael was helped by the safety car. Michael, before the safety car, was figthing with slower cars while Rosberg was fighting with the top guns. After the safety car, there was a 3.2 seconds dif and Michael had new tyres. The last stint was Michael on softs and Nico not.

That is exactly what happened. Both did well. Safety car helped Michael.

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#12852 Jejking

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:32

What does this prove? Taking into account field spread and time lost in traffic and overtaking other cars Nico hadn't been able to pull out more of a lead over Schumi in the first 11 laps?



MS started with hards. NR started with softs. It was a dumb post anyway though....

+1. There is nothing to compare today in distances.

I have all the laptimes. I posted the dif between the two.

Don´t pretend you didn´t see that Michael was helped by the safety car. Michael, before the safety car, was figthing with slower cars while Rosberg was fighting with the top guns. After the safety car, there was a 3.2 seconds dif and Michael had new tyres. The last stint was Michael on softs and Nico not.

That is exactly what happened. Both did well. Safety car helped Michael.



Fact: Schumacher came in VERY early in lap 4/5. Strategywise not good because his ability to run longer was destroyed. = Major disadvantage.
Fact: Rosberg was consuming more fuel during the race because he had to push harder to keep the cars behind honest.
Fact: FINALLY Mercedes managed to get on with Schumacher on strategy. Stop 2 with the SC was (together with Vettel) brilliantly timed and key in the race. Exit major disadvantage.
Fact: Schumacher was cutting through the field at a reasonable pace.
Fact: Mercedes is heavily disadvantaged on pure pace.
Fact: DRS overtaking was pretty easy. Only Button was able to sneak ahead in a none DRS-zone with a very good move.
(Fact: Schumacher was the only car resisting a DRS attack on pure top speed)
Fact: No wings suddenly detaching in his neighbourhood. Haters gonna hate.
Fact: Schumacher was for his last stint on softs, vs mediums. BUT the softs were degrading quicker.
Fact: Rosberg had to shortshift a bit.
Fact: Schumacher managed that situation very well and in the end broke Rosberg down after he was quicker through Eau Rouge. A bit tyrerelated but still good.

A really solid performance by Schumacher. 'No one other than MSC could have done that' is fanboyism but he really earned his money today.

Edited by Jejking, 28 August 2011 - 14:34.


#12853 pt5

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:33

NR destroyed his soft tires on both stints which is why he lost out, he had a train behind him at the end of both his soft stints, both times MS was in that train making up time to him, even without a safety car it would have had the same ending.

So whoever whats to say that MS had an advantage at the safety car, NR had an advantage when his fu#$ing wheel didn't fall off on his outlap on Saturday. :rotfl:



1 - Nico had a train behind him because he has a wondefull start and was fighting with RBR, Ferraris and Mclarens. Have you tought about that?

2 - Yes. Michael was extremelly unlucky yesterday and Nico was extremelly unlucky today. It should be Cristal clear for everyone.

#12854 baddog

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:36

I have all the laptimes. I posted the dif between the two.

Don´t pretend you didn´t see that Michael was helped by the safety car. Michael, before the safety car, was figthing with slower cars while Rosberg was fighting with the top guns. After the safety car, there was a 3.2 seconds dif and Michael had new tyres. The last stint was Michael on softs and Nico not.

That is exactly what happened. Both did well. Safety car helped Michael.


Lying your pants off. Nico stopped just before the safety car, TWO LAPS before Michael, so theres your 'michael had new tyres' out the window. Nico lost a pile of time before stopping, and also lost a pile of time in his second stint simply because his pace was slower at all times. Ive posted the times in the other thread where they belong.

#12855 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:37

+1. There is nothing to compare today in distances.

Fact: Schumacher came in VERY early in lap 4/5. = Major disadvantage.
Fact: Rosberg was consuming more fuel during the race because he had to push harder to keep the cars behind honest.
Fact: FINALLY Mercedes managed to get on with Schumacher on strategy. Stop 2 with the SC was (together with Vettel) brilliantly timed and key in the race. Exit major disadvantage.
Fact: Schumacher was cutting through the field at a reasonable pace.
Fact: Mercedes is heavily disadvantaged on pure pace.
Fact: DRS overtaking was pretty easy. Only Button was able to sneak ahead in a none DRS-zone with a very good move.
(Fact: Schumacher was the only car resisting a DRS attack on pure top speed)
Fact: No wings suddenly detaching in his neighbourhood. Haters gonna hate.
Fact: Schumacher was for his last stint on softs, vs mediums. BUT the softs were degrading quicker.
Fact: Rosberg had to shortshift a bit.
Fact: Schumacher managed that situation very well and in the end broke Rosberg down after he was quicker through Eau Rouge. A bit tyrerelated but still good.

A really solid performance by Schumacher. 'No one other than MSC could have done that' is fanboyism but he really earned his money today.


MS coming in early to change tyres in fact was key to his success. He missed qualy altogether, he had tons of softs, they got rid of the mandatory hards in 4 laps, and from then on he could push. It was the right and obvious strategy.


#12856 Jejking

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:37

1 - Nico had a train behind him because he has a wondefull start and was fighting with RBR, Ferraris and Mclarens. Have you tought about that?

2 - Yes. Michael was extremelly unlucky yesterday and Nico was extremelly unlucky today. It should be Cristal clear for everyone.

1. He had a wonderful start. Fact. (First I thought he jumped it, but fortunately it wasn't the case). He was on his backfoot anyway against the top cars but did a good job. Better than Massa in superior material anyway.

2. Nico extremely unlucky today? You must be joking. Mercedes maximized today. Maybe Schumacher without the problem on Saturday (and the first stop today) would have been like 10s closer to the top but not earth shattering P2 or P3 or sthg. They are hitting the limiter which is the car.

MS coming in early to change tyres in fact was key to his success. He missed qualy altogether, he had tons of softs, they got rid of the mandatory hards in 4 laps, and from then on he could push. It was the right and obvious strategy.


I heard something about a puncture but you say it was strategy? Hmm, considering the speed of the harder compound (quite sufficient) I wouldn't say that is it. But you might know more on me about that one, I'm going to check it anyway because it was all a bit vague. The strategy was good today, at least :)

Edited by Jejking, 28 August 2011 - 14:39.


#12857 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:38

Michael made his own luck.

He overtook two cars at the SC restart.

He had a brilliant drive today. 24 to 5.

But you know what they say about haters....

#12858 pt5

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:43

:up:

MS coming in early to change tyres in fact was key to his success. He missed qualy altogether, he had tons of softs, they got rid of the mandatory hards in 4 laps, and from then on he could push. It was the right and obvious strategy.



#12859 Sakae

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:48

Delighted, absolutley delighted. No one can doubt this man; really the great one!

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#12860 jrobson

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:55

1 - Nico had a train behind him because he has a wondefull start and was fighting with RBR, Ferraris and Mclarens. Have you tought about that?

2 - Yes. Michael was extremelly unlucky yesterday and Nico was extremelly unlucky today. It should be Cristal clear for everyone.


No, he had a good start because everyone else was taking it easy so to not destroy their tires too soon, then they pitted and NR stayed out, if he pitted when his pace failed he would have also been "lucky" with the safety car.
It's not unlucky to drive slower than the rest, it's only unlucky when something happens that is out of your control, there was no disadvantage from the SC because he gained places again when everyone else pitted, so no need to pass them on the track which takes more time.

There were 18 drivers between him and Rosberg, maybe they were all unlucky today, except button he was very lucky...

Accept it was a clean solid drive, his middle sectors were usually not very good, maybe he was looking after the tires and saving fuel, maybe he set his car up that way, these things are up to the drivers.

http://en.espnf1.com...race/29953.html - Click on Driver-by-driver then highlight NR and MS see what happened, NR dropped so many places because he had a large train following him. NR actually gained from 13th to 5th with the safety car, Micheal only gained from 10th to 9th. So actually NR got very lucky with the safety car.

Edited by jrobson, 28 August 2011 - 15:00.


#12861 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:56

This is MS thread . For MS against Nico visit the other thread!!!!

#12862 Jejking

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:00

No, he had a good start because everyone else was taking it easy so to not destroy their tires too soon, then they pitted and NR stayed out, if he pitted when his pace failed he would have also been "lucky" with the safety car.
It's not unlucky to drive slower than the rest, it's only unlucky when something happens that is out of your control, there was no disadvantage from the SC because he gained places again when everyone else pitted, so no need to pass them on the track which takes more time.

There were 18 drivers between him and Rosberg, maybe they were all unlucky today, except button he was very lucky...

Accept it was a clean solid drive, his middle sectors were usually not very good, maybe he was looking after the tires and saving fuel, maybe he set his car up that way, these things are up to the drivers.

http://en.espnf1.com...race/29953.html - Click on Driver-by-driver then highlight NR and MS see what happened, NR dropped so many places because he had a large train following him.

About the middle sectors, I think it was a deliberate setup thing because he was consistently off the pace in S2 but faster at S1 and 3, considering the topspeeds!

[offtopic]And Button lucky? He had a good car but he had to work for it after his broken FW :) [/]

#12863 jrobson

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:02

About the middle sectors, I think it was a deliberate setup thing because he was consistently off the pace in S2 but faster at S1 and 3, considering the topspeeds!

[offtopic]And Button lucky? He had a good car but he had to work for it after his broken FW :) [/]

haha it was a bit of sarcasm of course ;)

#12864 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:09

Michael used new gearbox. He used his free change.

#12865 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:11

Delighted, absolutley delighted. No one can doubt this man; really the great one!


Great race! :up:

#12866 Jejking

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:11

Michael used new gearbox. He used his free change.

Source? :)

#12867 Poep

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:19

I believe he has said that with Benetton their would always be allegations of cheating, with Traction Control, faster refueling due to lack of filters etc. so he needed a fresh start with a team that didn't have a reputation for cheating.

He said that Briatore was playing political games and got punished for them with Michael unfortunately in it ass well. Briatore ruined it for Michael.

#12868 BRK

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:22

Two things: he kept calm and avoided the nasty incident at the start of the race, by La Source, that was absolutely critical as I believe this is the sort of performance we ought to have seen more times this season until cut short by either a collision or bad pitstops or some such issue.

And I wonder if he should stick with the golden\yellow helmet for the rest of the season. The red one looks better but Michael is a bit superstitious when it comes to things like this.

#12869 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:35

Mate, the post wasn't for you but for pt5. No problem :)
Source? :)

http://www.fia.com/e...document-32.pdf
It is bad because he was last, and even if he had penalty this wouldn't change his start position. Now he use his free change for nothing, I think.


#12870 George Costanza

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:51

A great race; a lot like his 1995 victory. :)

#12871 arknor

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 16:16

I have all the laptimes. I posted the dif between the two.

Don´t pretend you didn´t see that Michael was helped by the safety car. Michael, before the safety car, was figthing with slower cars while Rosberg was fighting with the top guns. After the safety car, there was a 3.2 seconds dif and Michael had new tyres. The last stint was Michael on softs and Nico not.

That is exactly what happened. Both did well. Safety car helped Michael.

http://en.mclarenf-1.....=Nico Rosberg

face the FACTS rosberg only managed 17 laps that were faster than MSC,...
he lost because his pace wasnt as good...

this isnt the rosberg vs schumacher thread either so if you dont want to add anything useful go post in the correct thread and stop your hating in here

Edited by arknor, 28 August 2011 - 16:17.


#12872 DS27

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 16:44

Great race.

Good to see the old fellow smiling after the race. I thought he even looked a bit misty eyed while being interviewed.

Edited by DS27, 28 August 2011 - 16:46.


#12873 eriknaa

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:23

What a great race, really proud to be a Schumi fan today. He drove really well, and today he showed all the doubters out there that he can still get the job done.
24th to 5th, is just great, and a nice reward after that unlucky shunt yesterday in Quali. And not least for his 20th celebration in F1, with golden helmet and everything
The KING of SPA returned today :up: :up: :up:


#12874 walkindude

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:28

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Race start onboard

#12875 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:31

Posted Image
SD: Michael ,you will finish 5th tomorrow. We even put the 5 here for you.

#12876 as65p

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:34

Good race from the old man today. :up:

#12877 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:36

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded
Race start onboard

Great, he even overtake DIR without DRS.


#12878 hodg

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:42

I think todays race was his best since his come back, I can see him doing well in Monza too.

#12879 thrillercd

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:46

Posted Image
SD: Michael ,you will finish 5th tomorrow. We even put the 5 here for you.


:rotfl: :rotfl:

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#12880 hodg

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:49

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Race start onboard



That was a great video, wish we could see the whole race onboard like that.

#12881 weston

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:53

I think todays race was his best since his come back, I can see him doing well in Monza too.


He was also great in Canada. The spark is back for a while.
He (and Rosberg) needs a little bit better car to have podium finishes.

#12882 Urawa

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:53

today justed showed what would have been possible in the last races and that he´s definitely a hard opponent for his teammate on sunday.
he has to stay out of trouble of course and keep his head cool, that´s what he did today.
if that´s the case there will be a good amount of more points this season.

Edited by Urawa, 28 August 2011 - 17:54.


#12883 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 18:09

Posted Image
BE: Michael, this look faster than your W02? And the tyres will never fall.

Edited by ivand911, 28 August 2011 - 18:21.


#12884 SeanValen

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 18:17

I don't know, but did anyone else think that it was kinda pre-fated that his qualifying was once again at Spa, sending him back to the grid, it kinda must of made everyone think, on his 20th anniversay, that a back from the grid performance to the front was on the cards, a kind of Spa legacy strong performance. Michael was strong here at Spa last year in the mercedes, but given the amount of glitches and team errors, he deserved this and it was good timing for the legend. It wouldn't of been downbeat after all the celebrations and special helmets/shirts that his race ended too early or something, so this was a cool result, not just for Schuey, but the overall spectre of the Spa race, with no rain, we had a great race from many drivers, and Schumacher's legacy at Spa had it's impact as well.



Great straight line speed from Mercedes, with Monza's straights, hopefully it can be a plus there. :smoking:


A race track like Spa with it's speed/corners, just allowes Schumacher to let it rip, it's fast track., a track like Valencia with alot of slow corners, is not what he's enjoying with these current tyres/car/rules, the most faster tracks the better, Magny Cours in France Michael won 8 times, it had a fast sector 1, which Kimi was also mind blowing with, if the Texas race and Inda race can provide those sort of sectors, and perhaps kerb riding like Imola, another race Michael would excel at if still on, then it helps with his overall balance and strengths, as I do think Imola and Magny Courts not being on the calender doesn't help Michael, because he was especially strong here, so he needs those specific fast corners in this ever modern day f1 to show those differences he can make in the fast corners.


#12885 BRK

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 19:51

Posted Image
BE: Michael, this look faster than your W02? And the tyres will never fall.


Check out Leonid Brezhnev to Michael's right, come back from the past to hand MS a bicycle. Is it Soviet-make, by any chance?

A race track like Spa with it's speed/corners, just allowes Schumacher to let it rip, it's fast track., a track like Valencia with alot of slow corners, is not what he's enjoying with these current tyres/car/rules, the most faster tracks the better, Magny Cours in France Michael won 8 times, it had a fast sector 1, which Kimi was also mind blowing with, if the Texas race and Inda race can provide those sort of sectors, and perhaps kerb riding like Imola, another race Michael would excel at if still on, then it helps with his overall balance and strengths, as I do think Imola and Magny Courts not being on the calender doesn't help Michael, because he was especially strong here, so he needs those specific fast corners in this ever modern day f1 to show those differences he can make in the fast corners.


Agree totally, Schumacher's a demon through the high-speed corners, someone at Mercedes admitted the same last season I think. That's why Spa (and Suzuka) are such legendary driver's tracks and also two of his favourite layouts.

#12886 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 20:29

Check out Leonid Brezhnev to Michael's right, come back from the past to hand MS a bicycle. Is it Soviet-make, by any chance?

This is Eddy Merckx.
http://www.eddymerckx.be/


#12887 Tardis40

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 20:35

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Race start onboard


Wow!

#12888 salamin

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 20:46

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Race start onboard


from 2:02 - refusing to lift at t18 - what a fighter :up:

#12889 DutchCruijff

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 21:04

This is Eddy Merckx.
http://www.eddymerckx.be/

Great pic, the 2 best sportsmen of their sports.

#12890 Wretched

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 21:18

A fantastic drive by MS.
Can't wait for Monza.

#12891 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 21:20

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
:p

Edited by ivand911, 28 August 2011 - 21:27.


#12892 george1981

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 21:21

Looking at Schumacher's start I noticed that he didn't overtake anyone off the line into the first corner as he usually does when starting further up the grid. He was last going into La Source.
I think this was deliberate, he thought there would be a pile up on that corner and held back to navigate his way through.

#12893 ivand911

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 21:30

Looking at Schumacher's start I noticed that he didn't overtake anyone off the line into the first corner as he usually does when starting further up the grid. He was last going into La Source.
I think this was deliberate, he thought there would be a pile up on that corner and held back to navigate his way through.

Than is probably true , but he was also with hards, all around him with softs, so they started better. But , I guess he didn't hurry for the fist corner mix-up.

Edited by ivand911, 28 August 2011 - 21:31.


#12894 george1981

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 21:35

Than is probably true , but he was also with hards, all around him with softs, so they started better. But , I guess he didn't hurry for the fist corner mix-up.


I was expecting big things from him from the start, even being on the hards I would have thought he would have been quicker off the line than the Hispania's and the Virgin's.
When I saw him picking his way through La Source making up places I thought he had a slow start on purpose.

#12895 topical

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 21:42

Good drive today by Schumacher. With this sort of performance he can just earn about justify his place on the grid beyond the lure of nostalgia.

#12896 AirWebber

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 22:12

Is it true that on his Saturday cellebrations at the Merc motorhome Eddie Jordan came by and gave Michael the broken clutch of his Spa 1992 Jordan ?

#12897 ivand911

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:09

Is it true that on his Saturday cellebrations at the Merc motorhome Eddie Jordan came by and gave Michael the broken clutch of his Spa 1992 Jordan ?

Yes, Spa 1991 clutch. It looks like a clutch. I hope after this race , Michael will not bring this clutch at every race.

Edited by ivand911, 29 August 2011 - 07:10.


#12898 buellher

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:35

:kiss: :clap: :clap: :clap:

#12899 Craven Morehead

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:54

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Race start onboard


fantastic footage. :up:

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#12900 KiloWatt

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:53

Very good drive by the man. I share the opinion of some that he held of on purpose at the start to let the drama play out. The speed at which he closed on the virgins up the hill made it look like he was chasing some GP cars which probably isn't far of the mark.

He's getting better with every race. And the statistic is telling that he's got slightly more points than 12 races in this season, than last. While Nico (don't take this personally Nico fans) has got almost twice as few and is barely in the double digits ahead of him. My point being merly that he's coping much much much better with things this year.

But you already knew that...

Edited by KiloWatt, 29 August 2011 - 11:55.